You could just get a 1010 Bluebox (standalone version) and use the space on more goodies.
Thanks for the in depth response dude I'll will read into it more and think about rearranging some modules for more envelops.. Do you recommend more vca? Or is the divkid/dopfeer and mixsix enough.. I think I will sell the grenadel drone commander
-- dougie834
No problem. Yes, I would recommend more VCAs. A module like the Intellijel Quad VCA is a great start - 4 different ones with lots of options to try your VCA in many different applications. It's good for CV or audio. Plus it's normalized so you can mix outputs together (though it is notably different from the 6x Mix, which I recommend keeping).
Maybe take a look at other ones as well and see what works best for you and whether or not you might also want a separate attenuation/offset/polarization module like a Happy Nerding 3x MIA or a Tiptop Audio MISO. It's good to just look up the popular modules in these categories and read the manuals, look at the descriptions, and also check out the panels to see what they do or don't have - this will tell you more about how to use them and what's available than just the category they're sold under. Even the ones you don't buy will help you understand the concepts clearer.
However, for now the Quad VCA is a good one for now that is considered reliable and can adapt to your needs as you progress. That's my personal suggestion. Currently, I have a Frap Tools 321, but that's not voltage controlled and I might have the Intellijel module or a MISO myself if I could spare the extra 4 HP.
[https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1802754.jpg
I have built the rack up without any real thought to create techno beats what would I need to change as in get rid of and replace
be ruthless if you like..thanks for the in depth resonce I really appretiate it..I do most of what you have suggested vco/ filter/mixer but looking at your post I think I have problems useing envolopes ! im unsure where to use them and when ? can you advise me cheers
-- dougie834
As stated above by Jim, envelopes commonly open VCAs (as well as filters) to articulate sounds - this is what makes a sound start and stop on its own. When you use the Moskwa on an oscillator, the "gate out" goes to the "gate" input on the envelope, and the envelope goes to the filter/vca. With the filter cutoff or VCA gain turned all the way down, this should make the envelope control when, how, and for how long the sound coming through plays.
I assume you bought three drone devices because you love drones, but for now I feel like selling one or two of them to finance some basic useful stuff might help (even if you have the money to throw at this, I would at least recommend focusing on fewer sound sources for now). As stated above by Jim, VCAs and attenuators/attenuverters are big here. They basically let you control amounts of stuff (modulation or audio) and make your system more fun by giving you more knobs and more control. Make sure to look up the difference between VCAs, attenuators, attenuverters, and all that so you're not amplifying stuff too loud or not enough. I use a Frap Tools 321 and I like it a lot, but there are a ton of these (including a great cost-effective one from the company who makes your mixer and FX, Happy Nerding.
You might also consider a big function generator like Maths or the Tiptop Buchla 281t. These modules provide a bunch of simple envelopes that can loop as LFOs, be used as triggers and other sort of interlinking functions (hence the name) and can help animate your system more and give you options that work together. Pamela's New Workout is a great source of modulation/clock/sequencing for a techno setup, but having something more hands-on and less buried in menus will complement that nicely and allow you to get more freeform in switching between types and shapes of modulation.
One other utility I might suggest for you is some kind of quantizer. This will allow you to use essentially anything to sequence notes in your system, from LFOs to envelopes to whatever. Especially when it comes to improvising techno, this can help you a lot in terms of variations.
One last tip: sample and hold modules are not only a classic source of modulation that I recommend researching, but if you get one with CV and trigger inputs, you can run your mix or a single sound through it and send something at audio rate to the trigger to create an analog version of a "bitcrush/downsampling" effect. I love bitcrushers, but unless the Doepfer one has a specific sound you love, you could get a decenr sample and hold somewhere and basically have two modules in one. Modular is full of instances like this where something boring and technical is actually a simpler and more efficient way of doing something than a module built for one purpose.
I see three standard(ish) VCOs with two filters, three drone machines that may not need a filter/vca, and the Pico Drum and Tiptop Audio One for samples. Are you plugging them all into the mixer at once? I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but it seems like even if you trigger a kick on the Pico/One and then plug a couple drone machines into the 6x Mix and just let them run without even worrying about envelopes/filters/etc for them, that would already be doing a fair bit.
What do you do when you patch the MCO or Loquelic? Do you just do a standard subtractive patch (VCO into filter being opened by an envelope?) I think if you did that with a VCO for a bassline or lead, sequenced it with the Moskwa, and then just plugged that in the 6x Mix with one or two of the drone machines and one of the samplers (being triggered by the Pam's), you could run all this stuff at once pretty easily, clocking it with Pam's for consistency.
Once you break each voice down to its essential parts, I think it'll be clearer to you that you have a lot going here (and probably at least one too many drone machines - or maybe too many things that aren't drone machines). I would start by trying to patch each voice using as few elements as possible and see what you have left each time. Focus on one simple thing at a time and build the layers that way.
If you want a bunch of other stuff in there and are considering a 321, you might also look at a small dual LPG like the Takaab or Meng Qi ones. I have both. I particularly recommend the Takaab one for the mode switches and how ungodly cheap it is, but the Meng Qi one is popular and sounds great. I use them with a 321 for some control and it's a great dual LPG setup for cheap that can open up some new signal paths for your modules with a specific character you can't get from the 130-8.
Also, instead of an oscillator (or alongside it), I might recommend a humble noise source. In combination with the LPG/VCA and the Wogglebug audio sources you could get some great percussion going in a small space with stuff you already have. The Verbos Noise & Filter is a unique device for this purpose - you could use the filter bank with the noise or any other sound source.
I mean, you can make techno with a single monosynth. It's not really a system issue, I'd say - all the pieces are here, and any extras may just be your personal taste.
Have you noticed any problems while playing it, or does it just not get you as inspired as you expected? Do you play it much.
A filter bank is always nice. The Serge ResEQ is popular and has a lot of character and charm.
A simple ring modulator is also a good investment.
As for filters, definitely get one with enough room to have fun - this is one of those things you'll always fiddle with and it needs to be accessible. Personally, I'd look at a dual/stereo one or even one with more resonant peaks (like the QPAS or the Vostok Atlas), but go with your heart on this one - listen to tons of examples and do absolutely play some at stores. Another option is the Instruo Traigh, which isn't necessarily cheap but features a three input mixer and a nice classic ladder filter sound. A used one will probably be a decent price.
One thing I like to use a lot for effects is a Moog Mavis synthesizer, which can be taken out of its enclosure and mounted in a Eurorack case. For a fairly decent price you get an iconic filter, a wavefolder, a sample and hold that can be used for a bitcrushing/downsampling effect, an oscillator/LFO combo with crazy range that can be used for either thingfor built in normalized FM and other cool modulation (or just running some nice Moog voices under what you do), as well as built in mixing, multing, and an attenuator. The keyboard isn't ideal for playing, but the CV from it can be routed to other sources so it can be used to trigger events in your modular system apart from regular notes. If you had specifically asked for a synth I may not have recommended it specificslly, but it's a great package for this specific purpose as well as being a very good synth if you decide you want to fold that in as well.
My advice if you want the full experience but don't want to expand too much? Get a semi-modular synth and then just buy modules to augment it. A Pico System III is a great one because it has so many pieces that can be used in different ways. The Quadrantid Swarm is a good one if you want something less traditional but still very musical. There are plenty of good options, and they can save you space in your rack.
Also consider something like an Empress Zoia or a Poly Hector (or even the non-Eurorack versions, which have MIDI outs and can interfave with the controls on your Sub37 in deep ways). One of those and some attenuation/mixing for hands-on control might scratch the itch for a long time. The Hector is also full of Mutable Instruments modules because they're open source, so you get a lot of classic modular in there.
There's also stuff like Ornament and Crime or the Disting modules, with lots of different tools in them that you can try. Not super hands on, but you don't always need that (or you can use attenuators to change this). If a function in there makes you want to go deeper, you can get a module from there.
Have you tried VCV Rack? I find it good for planning systems in addition to making music on it. You can get a sense of how things will sound and decide what you want more or less control over.
No one would buy a Buchla 281t or other version of that if they wanted a Maths and understood how both worked. The DUSG and the Maths and the 281 and all the other function generators are not similar experiences even if they have similar elements. They don't directly compete with another product in a way that makes the other one. Behringer changed whatever they needed to change to make the price lower, but they're still selling the same experience. Illegal or not, it's still a choice whether that's the kind of business you want to support if you're already buying a boutique niche product.
Making silly joke entries on Modulargrid probably isn't the best way to go after Behringer. It's not evil, but meh. Informing people that they're casually antisemitic liars who partially fund their douchiness by trying to undercut and drown out beloved manufacturers/designers, however, is not a bad thing. I've owned their stuff and not all their products (or even all their ripoffs) are bad. However, once people are told what Behringer is, they cannot claim not to support them by giving them their money - you choose something, you choose the consequences if you're informed on them. "Looking down on them" is just a bad faith interpretation of holding someone accountable for their actions, which isn't even an inherently exclusionary act. But goofy stuff just undermines the point. The throttling of market participation by big douche companies has become so traditional by now that there are people here denouncing criticism of these practices because others partake in them as well. As long as those people and the people they're talking to can trick themselves into feeling reasonable, the problem isn't going anywhere.
Currently I don't honestly own any "opinionated" hardware unless you count the Moog Mavis. However, I did buy a Poly Beebo just to use the Marbles port on my samplers/synths, and I also use it a lot in VCV Rack. Despite all the options available with computers and other modules, Marbles is just a nice, simple, organized, yet highly distinct way to randomize stuff gently or intensely, and I'm not sick of it it.
looks like quite a decent start to me...
personally I'd want some more utilities... as they add more patching options... so versatility
& some modulation - envelope generators/function generators & lfos
and I'd probably go for a bigger case (mantis would be my choice - bigger/quieter/cheaper per hp etc) - sooner or later you'll inevitably need it & you're a bit close to the power specs for the uZeus - at least with the regular psu - & with the higher powered option there's no improvement on the -12v rail - remember to leave at least 20% headroom on all rails (& if you add more modules you'll probably want to change the jumper for the -12v to get the extra 100mA out of it...
-- JimHowell1970
Thank you for your help, particularly with the envelope/function generator and power/case aspects. These are areas I was hoping to cheap out on, but I think I won't for now, even if it means holding off on a purchase for longer.
I'm sort of tempted to just go with an updated version of this (should be visible if you click the image) and then see what other utilities I need as I go along. I also have a Bluebox mixer, so I'm at least ok for figuring out how to collect my various audio signals from the modular and send them to the rest of the world.
What I'm working on is basically a "randomized" sampler to play live. One of my favorite things about the Microfreak is that you can modulate the arpeggiator/sequencer rate and get really off the grid in a tactile way. I want to do this in a sampler and sort of create like an instrumental hip hop version of free jazz. If there is a hardware sampler that does this (or a MIDI controller like the Torso T1), I haven't found it yet, so my plan is to go modular make the setup posted above. I think this a good simple starting point for the concept. In addition to this stuff, I already own a Moog Mavis, Microfreak, Keystep, and SQ-1, as well as a couple more normal samplers that cover me well in terms of regular usage, so I'm pretty much just focusing on this specific function.
I guess I just thought I'd run it by people here to see if there's anything missing here in order to pull off the bare minimum version of this (or any repeated functionality that I don't need). I tested a version of it in VCV Rack and this seems fine, but hardware is obviously different. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
