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im thinking: program the bass line 1h at a time on the nerdseq (plus whatever live options it has available, if any) then draw in a base drumline, then either use a keystep pro or any of the sequencing and arpeggiation options available to build the main melody, then add extra drums and melody on the tukra and rene, clocking everything to the tukra, then fill in a ton of extra cv mod texture, then build an effects chain, then have 5 pre loaded samples to trigger stretch or reverse at any time, then some 'extra magic', then record. now that you know the whole concept do you think it makes more sense now? peace.
-- singular_sound

The one thing you'll learn in modular synthesis is that the line between bass, lead, drum, and pad is relatively arbitrary. The more you break down sounds to their base elements and the circuits that make them up, the more you'll have ideas that are just about sounds and how they're made. Theoretically, this is all fine, and what you're describing is a bit vague but definitely workable, but you'll be surprised at how differently you see these elements when you're working with them vs when you're imagining them from the perspective of a more typical workflow.

Also, the way you've talked about this leads me to believe that, if you plan to start with a voice and a sequencer, you should probably go with the Nerdseq first rather than the Tukra, because you'll be able to do a lot of the stuff you're describing in this big setup using just the Nerdseq and a few well-chosen modules for a voice. When I first got mine, I tested it with just a Moog Mavis, a 2hp MMF, and a power supply with a built-in mult, and I got a ton out of that. You don't need 8 voices to make it count - the outputs and inputs are freely assignable and the ungodly amount of features makes it good for supercharging a Eurorack voice or two. It is also more live-friendly than it seems, especially since it has extensive integration with Launchpads, allowing you to do a variety of fun things and basically turning it into something like an Ableton workflow, but in hardware. It will probably be the best way for you to determine if you want to manage and maintain a larger Eurorack environment as opposed to having the modular just be an instrument in a broader context or a solo instrument like violin or whatever. Obviously, I'm just one guy, though - be careful before you start throwing Nerdseq money around.

If anything, I think your setup would be bigger if you had all these modules, because the real juice comes from modulating and manipulating voices and sounds with control voltage and routing the signals creatively more than methodically layering and combining lots of voices (which is kind of better left to non-Eurorack hardware). Think of a jazz trio - a bass, saxophone, and drums. Despite only two mostly monophonic melodic voices (with some opportunities to do chords or whatever) and and a few drum sounds, the possibilities are immense because of how much they can manipulate timbre with their playing. Albert Ayler's Spiritual Unity is a pretty good way of demonstrating what I mean - that music is massive despite being basic instruments available in reasonably well-stocked high schools. That level of flexibility per voice is what makes modular special relative to other formats despite essentially making the same sounds as any other interface with the same circuits inside of it, but it comes from modulation and utilities. LFOs, envelopes, VCAs, mults, CV mixers, clock dividers, sample and hold, switches, etc. - the boring stuff that was pretty much already figured out by the 1970s.

For example, the small system you made has two sound sources (three if I'm being picky, but I won't count the Tukra). One does include its own support modules, but that will just get you to the point of making regular synth sounds. When you consider that the Tukra only sequences gates and you still have to get notes into the thing, you'd probably do well to stick to a general "one sound source per row" rule and go from there. Theoretically, if you said "I want to get a setup with at least two synth sources and some unique sequencing/drum options", I would recommend a Syntakt or Analog Rytm before this modular setup, and you'd make the same sounds better and more conveniently.

Instead, my advice for your first modular setup is to go the other way and just think "what is the most badass single voice I can come up with?", and maybe add that onto the Tukra for a cool start. You can even use the Pam's to quantize modulation from weird modules and create generative melodies, so maybe keep Pam's if you're going to start with a pure gate sequencer like this - it will help cover for it and integrate it into a less rigid framework well. After you have a full, tricked out single voice figured out, the setup ideas will just be flowing and it will be easier to make it more expansive and nebulous.

Also, if you need 104 HP for your first rack, go for it. I just kinda said 84, but a Mantis case could be wise if you know you want to do this stuff.

As a live setup, this is just too much. There is a pageantry to a big setup when you're onstage, but one 12U case (or, frankly, 6U case) is already quite a bit of stuff when you only have two hands. This is enough to keep 4 different people stressing out to keep track of everything.

As a studio hub for experimenting or just general production work, things obviously change a bit. However, the big systems that people like Red Means Recording use to make professional sounding and well-thought out music like you could get from a DAW (or at least be able to keep and use the results as if it werw that kind of music) are built piece by piece. If you're on a budget, not being too tied to a specific plan where every piece is interdependent is best - go where the deals are.

Let me ask you this: roughly speaking, if you had to describe each of these cases succinctly as "the (blank) case", what would each one be? For example, "the Buchla case", or "the sampling case", or "the techno case" (though, if this describes all four, maybe don't pick that).

edit: Sorry - I posted this without seeing your new post.

EDITED May 11th, 00:19

This is a fun way to brainstorm, but a system this size will never work exactly as you plan it, so judging it overall at this stage isn't going to do much. This will be a lot easier if you plan in chunks and adjust as you go along (as I assume you already know you'll be doing). Start with one bit at a time.

What are your favorite options here in terms of modules? If you could only start with 84hp, what would you pick?

If this is a bit and I'm missing it, I apologize.

Looks pretty good to me. Maybe throw a mult in the 2hp spot (or get a couple of those 0hp splitter type things that are outside the rack).

Normally, having more than one oscillator in a small case is a but much, but for drones it's good to have an oscillator for FM usage or just running them together and getting contrasts from them. In a drone synth, at least two oscillators that can interact with one another will go a long way.

A filter might be a good addition as well. Make sure it's ergonomic for you.

There are a variety of good dedicated drone modules/synths, ranging from the Grendel Drone Commander 2 to the Eowaves Weather Drones to something standalone like the Stylophone GS-2. Even a synth not necessarily sold as a drone synth like a Moog Mavis (which can be both racked or kept in its own case) or other all-in-one device can be the basis of a great drone setup, and they have the benefit of combining a bunch of obvious tools in a smaller form factor so you can focus the rest of your case on more personal choices.

Overall, a "drone synth" is one of those things that really comes down to what you want. Can you think of examples of the sorts of sounds you have in mind? Drones can take many forms.

EDITED Apr 20th, 00:02

The Microfreak might be a good synth option. Tons of synth engines (including Plaits and Noise Engineering sounds), a decked out mod matrix, and a few sample-based synth options to do some of the more complex sample manipulating/playing elements from the Blackbox as well. 4 voices and an analog filter to top it all off. Hard to beat in a smaller setup - especially when it's so tactile.

EDITED Apr 14th, 23:21

Two samplers seems like a lot. Maybe that's just me. You'd probably get more out of a Bluebox than a Blackbox here.

Are these pieces of gear in the setup things that you already have, or do you have to buy this stuff?

EDITED Apr 13th, 19:24

Always the best option.

Why?

A Serge ResEQ could be fun. Or maybe even a QPAS. A filter in general would be nice.

Another good idea would be a 2hp dual sample and hold. If you put audio into the main input and then trigger it at audio rate as well, you get a simple but cool voltage controlled downsampled/"bitcrush" effect (in stereo if you use both).

Nice. I only had one for a bit, but I liked it a lot and still use the samples. One of the cooler little "try it randomly and see what happens" boxes.

For keeping the groovebox feel, I would also look at a Launchpad Pro. The Nerdseq is designed to do lots of cool stuff in tandem with the Launchpad for performing and general usage.

I still can't help but feel like traditional modulation would be helpful here. Maybe an Ochd or a Batumi? A Vostok Fuji? Obviously space is limited (as is always the case in a case). No hate against the Hypster, and I'm glad to see it still in here, but playing your modulation is a big part of what will make this different from, say, a Elektron box or a Polyend Tracker.

I agree with the person above that the Bitbox is cool for this, but there is always the option of pairing this with another sampler/drum machine for those duties. Something simple like a Circuit Rhythm or Model:Samples, or even a Blackbox to get most of the Bitbox function minus the CV stuff (but plus sequencing lanes separate from the Nerdseq). You can even use the MIDI out of the Nerdseq to sync the sampler and modulate MIDI CCs on the sampler for that "modular modulation" feel. Frankly, the Nerdseq and Morphagene offer plenty here for sampling while you get comfy with all this, so I wouldn't worry about this now. It's something to consider, though.

More envelopes and more LFOs. Otherwise, I like it. Welcome to the Nerdseq club. Yes, the Nerdseq does LFOs and envelopes and other modulation, but having them be hands-on with dedicated controls will make this setup more playable. Maybe another VCA/attenuator.

Since you've named this rack "merzbow 101", there isn't really anything specific this rack is missing - this would be a pretty sweet noise box.

However, I would definitely find some way to fit a bunch of envelopes in here if possible. Preferably loopable and flexible ones with a decent range, for example. Go to the module finder and look up the top popular modules under both the "envelope generator" and "quad" categories. Or get a classic Dual Univeral Slope Generator (DUSG) style module like Maths or the Befaco Rampage (or the original designs by Serge still available from Random Source, although that'll get pricey). One of those would allow you to get more percussion and general articulation into this setup without making it too needlessly different (the Wogglebug audio section, for example, makes great percussion material). You could even use it to make your rack work more as a synth as well and experiment with noisy, raw takes on more melodic or rhythmic stuff. Not that you can't get here with creative patching using your current setup, but envelopes will make that a lot more satisfying. Plus it will make it easier to play this with a Keystep or something like that if you wanted to do so (which I recommend whether you want to make pure noise or play melodies or anything in-between).

I don't always like to make specific recommendations, but I'll make suggestions here. Anything I recommend here will be easily sold to acquire something else if you decide to try it and don't like it. Just remember to learn about something as much as possible before buying so you know what you're getting into. Also, please don't buy too many things at once - with a Mother 32 and what you already have, it should be no trouble to go one or two at a time and get comfortable with each module.

If I were you, I would get that Maths. Personally, I'd also be looking at something like the Buchla Tiptop 281t or the Doepfer 143-1 or 143-2. I love the Tiptop one because it's cheap, super functional, and can run a lot of stuff. It can do everything from envelopes to LFOs and even some freeform sequencing if you use it creatively. It just makes my setup come alive. It also gives you lots of individual control of attack and decay, as well as some fun gates and the chance for ratchets. But just look on this site and filter your search by Envelope Generators and Quad, then check out the most popular ones. If you don't mind a bit of fiddling and a screen, the Xaoc Zadar is a really interesting one that is pretty limitless in what you can make.

The Divkid OCHD and its expander are also useful. 8 LFOs in the original unit controlled by a single knob, so you get 8 different modulations but they all connect to each other. You can always use VCAs or attenuverters on individual outputs. The expander gives you more outputs based on the LFOs (the manual can explain them way better than I can here). It's great for creating patches that are unified, but not necessarily by typical musical means.

The Disting Mk4 or Disting EX are great modules for 2 reasons. They have tons of algorithms they can switch between to fill in holes in your system. In addition, you can teach yourself a lot about modular by learning all the functions available and how they can be used, helping you to figure out what you need more or less of (or more or less control over). They can be both great fun and good homework. Ornament and Crime, in various forms, is another great example of this - maybe even moreso because of its focus on modulation, sequencing, and CV tools.

Another thing I like that would fit your "unpredictable patching" logic is the WORNG Vector space. It's hard to describe, but you basically plug in 3 modulations and it gives you 17 different versions and variations on them. To me, this is a nice cheap (albeit big) way to get into the sort of Serge style of patches where you're not really thinking of the traditional musical components and instead just getting the function from the circuit and letting the musical results flow from that. Some of the best modules are the ones that defy simple description in musical terms, and you sort of just have to sniff these out by reading about them.

If you don't already have a way to get your guitar to Eurorack levels, that might be a good idea. Not only for processing the audio, but also using the guitar sound plugged into an envelope follower (like Maths) to control stuff on the synth. You have an amazing modulation and sound source that many of us can't have even if we throw thousands of dollars at the issue. You should use it. Plus Moog synths make great pedals. Imagine having a Moogerfooger 101 with a built-in 32 step sequencer. Turns out you do.

Lastly, I'd look into a matrix mixer that can take CV - there are lots of good options. I have one from BearModules. Honestly, Etsy is a good place to look for these. Low Gain Electronics makes some nice ones, too.

Filters are personal. Just look at a bunch and learn the different types. Don't cop out in terms of size for your filter, either. You want a decent, usable cutoff knob that you can access.

EDITED Mar 21st, 01:01

That Vermona module is huge. I'm not saying it's a bad choice, but unless it's the main thing you want, it's taking up a lot of space in this smaller rack. Maybe take a look at the Muxslicer for something with a similar vibe that takes up less space.

You'll probably also want a bit more modulation - LFOs, envelopes, and the like. This is what makes modular really tick. The complex ways you can move sound around are much more emblematic of what makes modular special than any sound source.

Plaits doesn't necessarily need a filter, but you'd probably enjoy having another one in here for Plaits or even the noise from your Noise Tools. Noise can be a great voice in its own right for drums or cool sounds (or even melodies with a resonant filter).

More important than anything is arranging them so the stuff you're going to use while playing and performing is readily accessible and not buried under or behind cables. Don't be afraid to turn a module upside-down if it makes it more accessible for you - everything still works the same either way (unless itnhas a . Also, expect to have to make changes to accomodate the ribbon cables and module parts inside the case.

Also, get right-angled cables. They're a big help.

If it works for you, that's the most important part.

One thing I'd say is to get familiar with all the functions in the Disting. That's a great way to learn what else people mean when they talk about utilities. These are also what help you really break the rules of signal flow and create unique sounds and ideas.

In terms of modulation, you do have some good stuff, but the Maths is really the only hands-on modulation here. Look at stuff where you get as many functions as possible with their own knobs and patch points to control LFO rates or envelope shapes. It's nice to have some more chaotic, organic, and free modulation to complement the programmed stuff from the Zadar and the sequencing. And embrace randomness, S+H, and noise - they can do a lot more than just make stuff squiggle and whoosh in this environment, and can help get things going quickly in musical ways.

As an owner of the Mavis and a big fan, I would still highly suggest keeping that in its little standalone case it came with and filling out that area with more practical stuff like what was mentioned above. You should definitely try using it as an effect as well - not only for the filter, wavefolder, and built in modulation, but also for the sample and hold, which makes a great sample rate reduction effect if you put audio in and sample it at audio rate, kind of like a bitcrushed sound. It's a great synth, but especially when it comes with its own decksaver and all that, you might as well just sit it on the side like I do with my Mavis and Pico System III. Save the rack for things that can't go anywhere else - almost no one makes, say, standalone VCAs or attenuverters that are fun and easy to use (there are some "0hp" Eurorack tools you can find, but they're generally small and awkward). The exception is matrix mixers, which are an amazing modular utility and can absolutely be purchased standalone. Even then, though, you'd probably benefit more with that and some utilities in the rack and Mavis on the side than the other way around.

Honestly, that's about as balanced a system as anyone's going to get for that size. Looks good to me.

Do you not like Maths so far? If not, there are other options, of course, but that kind of patching platform is nicely consistent for this kind of classic-style modular case, especially in tandem with a different style function generator like the 281t that handles more typical, obvious stuff. This way, you can save your Maths for crazy stuff like slew limiting, creative envelope following/sidechaining, mixing, or even an extra oscillator or filter (I love the 281t but Maths is way better with audio signal stuff). They complement each other very well and cover each other's weaknesses.

Mostly I agree with you about effects, but there is one hardware effect that I think complements this system well and is worth trying: spring reverb. It just has a special glow, and you can get some great classic experimental music tones from cranking it up or playing the springs manually. It's a big part of classic Buchla sound, and they even include one in their most famous instrument, the Easel Command. It doesn't necessarily have to be in-rack (and in fact, even if you get a module for it the spring tank probably won't fit in there), but it's probably worth looking into once you feel comfy with all this. Sometimes you can find a good digital one - mostly when it emulates a specific circuit. VCV Rack has a software emulation of Befaco's Spring Thing reverb and it is surprisingly convincing. VCV Rack is also a great recommendation here for trying out kinds of modules and adding in modular effects and other DAW amenities so they can be patched togethet uniquely without buying another system - all for free, or for a decent price if you want it as a VST in your DAW rather than a standalone program.

The new version definitely feels more complete. I'm not neccesarily for or against o_C specifically, but this is probably more manageable and playable for now. You can always find some way to fit it in there if you still want to try it later.

Looks good to me so far. It could probably use more modulation. Some LFOs and envelopes (or something like the Vostok Fuji, which offers you the choice of either like the envelopes on Maths). Sample and hold/random would also be good to explore.

Do you like the Dixie and the Twin Waves? Your oscillators and filters are entirely up to you, and as long as you keep them balanced relative to other stuff like modulation and utilities, the two oscillators and two filters here can definitely sound great (and can even be used as four voices if you patch them cleverly - those are two great filters for experimenting).

What do you generally use Ornament and Crime for? Modules like that are great because you can try every function on it, and anything you use a lot or want more control over could be a potentially wise purchase if you get a standalone module for it.

Other than a bit more modulation, though, this looks good to me. Not too much for this size of case or anything. Are you having issues with it? Is it fun to use so far? That's the important part.

If you just want to plug a keyboard into your modular, buying a plain Arturia Keystep will be cheaper than any MIDI to CV converter in Eurorack.

A Keystep Pro would be even better and would probably streamline your sequencing/producing here by giving you both the keyboard and access to multiple sequencer tracks, but that is a bit of a price jump from the Keystep or even the mighty Beatstep Pro that you have (plus the Keystep Pro lacks all the cool knobs).

The regular Keystep is your best bet here for just adding a single keyboard, though. It's cheap, has its own CV connections, does sequencing/arpeggios well, and can even be used as a MIDI to CV converter if you want to control pitch and gate of a module from, say, your computer. MIDI to CV is expensive to do in the rack and none of the cheapest options give you much mire power than a Keystep

EDITED Mar 2nd, 21:33

Too many voices in a small space without enough modulation and utilities. Think of how many different things are on the MS20 just to make that one voice (for the most part) feel alive and musical - envelopes, an LFO, two filters, sample and hold, "ring mod", and the external signal processor, plus a pitch wheel thingy. That's the sort of approach you want to take to modular if you want to get more out of it than you would just with complete synths and pedals. Voices and effects are cool, and they can sometimes even be used as really interesting modulation, but for the most part you'd need at least 2-3 times this space to feed these sound sources and effects. Maths can do a lot of things, but not all at once, and certainly not enough for all these. Pam's is also very powerful, but you don't want to rely on it for basic modulation, and it isn't very hands-on. None of these modules are necessarily bad, but you should probably use this much space to make one or two excellent, super-flexible voices rather than 4 with what is probably slightly under the bare minimum of support.

Watch videos about complete modular systems, like the Make Noise Shared System/Tape and Microsound systems, or even do a bit of research on the suggested systems from Buchla (careful not to get sucked into that, though, because, while Buchla stuff is awesome, it makes Eurorack look like smart financial planning). Semi-modular synths as well. Get a sense of what people are using and calling "complete instruments" and why designers and users feel that way. It will help you design your system's vital plumbing in an informed way and make these modules feel and sound more like yours.

EDITED Mar 2nd, 09:17

Personally, I might suggest the Doepfer module just because you did get rid of the Vermona LFO and this might be a good way to cover some of that function while also having envelope functionality and a few other things. However, this is more subjective territory now, and if you just like the idea of Maths more, it will also be really good in here.

The best bet here is just to buy the one you like the idea of the most and sell it if it doesn't work. Forming a preference around these will depend on trying them out. Personally, I own a Tiptop 281t, so I'm more used to the Doepfer module and its style and I coild be biased (it's very similar to the Buchla one).

What do you need it for? The Maths had a lot more different functions, whereas the Doepfer does fewer things but has more instances of those simple things.

I would find it difficult not to fill that space with a Disting EX or an Ornament and Crime if I were you.

Do you do DIY modules at all? If not, maybe get some supplies and a kit for building a mult or something. If you get some practice with it, you can get other cool cheap DIY stuff like the AI Synthesis Matrix mixer (a great choice for a rack like yours that relies on tried and true modulation and oscillators patched creatively). That'd fill the space for cheap and potentially give you a new skill set.

Were you planning on running all these voices simultaneously, or did you just want to try them? This is a lot of voices for one time - it's probably enough modulation for one or two synth voices and maybe one drum voice.

There seems to be a lack of envelopes/function generators here. Maths can do a ton of stuff, but not necessarily all at once, and you'll probably want more traditional envelopes to do that job rather than tie it up with basic stuff.

The best way to get creative with your modular is to take one or two sounds and throttle them with modulation to create unique movements and timbres. Using oscillators for modulation is totally possible as well and leads to good stuff, but it's probably better to build your setup one piece at a time so you learn to maximize each piece. Think about semi-modular synths and how almost none of them let you make more than two voices, as well as how many of them dedicate most of their panel space and patch points to elements that are not the oscillators, like the filter or the modulation.

Also, 6 VCAs is pretty good so far, but I feel like, especially with the Dixie and the Pizza, a proper filter is missing here. Maybe that's not your style and I appreciate that, but it's worth thinking about.

I would give some thought to the Ghost pedal instead of the module if I were you. You may need that space for practical stuff. Or no Ghost effects unit at all, but I'm not going to tell you how to run your effects - just that it's good when you're working on your case to ask "is there anything in here that I can do outside the rack so I can add in more of what can only be done in modular"?

The video interface is intended for displaying the interface on an hdmi monitor, and it does that really well.
The video output is clean and records well. I wish that more/every manufacturer would provide that functionallity.

The video-art mode is low-res, unsupported, unfinished, and mostly undocumented (as of firmware v2.0).
I think Xor just thought it was an interesting hack, and kept what he had in the release, but it's sort of borked.
I got it to do some "things" but I was dissapointed I couldn't do basic drawing with it (draw a pixel/line at XY with this color).
It has a some potential, but also is limited by what the embedded video controller hardware is capable of.
Graphics mode also eats up one of the precious few tracks when using it for visuals.
Video synthesis it ain't, so don't buy it for that, but some audiences might enjoy seeing the tracker interface.
-- lumpytapioca

I did just mean the tracker interface. It fits the older aesthetic of the video sources (and even the old Edirol video mixer) we have.

Jojo Mayer also seems to be working with people who are practiced keyboard/piano players. In that case, what they're doing wouldn't be all that difficult to assemble (at least in terms of theory - obviously they still have to play it). You are the tempo, and you respond as needed, same issues as any other band.

Thanks everyone.

The precision adder feels like a good idea. I don't necessarily plan to obsess over melody and tuning in the modular, but it still seems like a nice simple way to change stuff. Joysticks and touch interface stuff are also cool - the latter is probably more practical and intuitive to me, but something about manipulating Nerdseq CV with a joystick feels appropriate.

I won't be rushing any of this auxiliary stuff anyway - for now, just getting the Nerdseq itself will give me plenty to do and play around with. Really, I have about 3-5 voices to mess around with here at any given time and they are all well-equipped with modulation for now, so I'll probably only need the expanders (except the MIDI one, which seems like a good call) if I become a die hard fan. The video one is almost more interesting to me since we've got some video elements to play live with as well and I think it'd be charming to include images from it as we play.

Depending on the kind of free improv you do, no rhythmic component may be necessary. Think "Topography of the Lungs" (or even Japanese noise, which was often synth based). I do this about once a month in town, and as long as you don't let any LFOs or function generators cycle unchecked when you don't want them to, you won't need to be too worried.

I'm not going to lie - I got a little confused here at first and thought your Clouds clone was the Marbles clone. That definitely changes my view of how playable this rack is at the moment. If you like ambient and techno and sound design and want to sync with an external drum machine but don't want a giant rack right away, a Marbles would be worth a look. It gives you random CVs and random gates that can be internally quantized to scales and rhythms, clocked externally, or set to be completely chaotic. It's about as practical as randomization gets, and it can be used, among other things, as a very flexible 3 track CV/gate sequencer for your voices. Clouds has a cool sound and goes great with a drum machine, but a voice/effect like that needs plenty of modulation to make it move and sound like it did when you decided to buy it. There is always the option of getting smaller versions of each, but I leave that to you, since they are nicely designed in the original format. And it will sell if you decide you want something different later on.

I'd also suggest a Mutable Veils clone or an Intellijel Quad VCA (or both). I'm not a Mutable obsessive or anything, but Emilie Gillet made several very efficient modules that cover a lot of ground in a small space and lend themselves well to real music making. Whatever you choose here, though, they will make what you already have even more fun.

You'll want to do as much of your own research as possible throughout all of this, though. Your modulation is just as much a way of getting your personality into your music as the sounds, if not more, and you'll want to tailor this to your needs as you go on. Once you have the Disting, you can run through that and it'll be a much more hands-on way of testing stuff. VCV Rack is also good for this - you can try free software versions of hardware tools and test the musical output of various systems to see if it's something you want to work with in hardware form. They even have ports of Mutable Instruments modules so you can test stuff alongside their version of Clouds and Marbles and Veils and Plaits or whatever else to see how it would work in your system.

I guess if you're already used to 2hp, their sample and hold module is pretty helpful. Sample and hold is one of those classic modulation sources that can do lots of stuff, from sequencing to random voltage generation to a sort of analog "bitcrush/downsampling" effect - and having two means you can do it in stereo. It pairs perfectly with a Pam's. to trigger it, or any of your VCOs if you want to do some audio rate stuff.

Are you using anything external to sequence/clock this? The Shuttle Control portion will definitely make this a good idea not to be wasted, and you can still use your Steppy and Mimetic for modulations/other fun stuff (or vice versa - controlling with the sequencers and modulating with MIDI).

Also, you probably want some more freeform modulation: LFOs, maybe a sample and hold (this doesn't have to be big and fancy), definitely envelopes or a function generator (if you have to pick one, this is a good one because it can be both LFO or envelope). As I said, the sequencers can handle some of this and that's a lot of fun, but a variety of modulations will get you results that will make you feel more like you're getting your money's worth here. Inevitably, you may have to put the Shuttle System back in its standalone case and fill that section with boring stuff to facilitate the other voices, though it will still be great accompaniment.

A Veils clone and an Os are probably good starting points for utilities. Usually people forget this and have more modulation. Not a horrible plan overall and if your goal is more percussive/pinged in nature, you'll probably be doing great for a while. Look up Richard Devine's live case to learn more of what I mean - I just saw him live and while his case would probably get some raised eyebrows on the forum here, he's been doing electronic music for decades and his setup absolutely works great for writing and performance. However, unless you know already why each piece is there (in which case you can just ignore me), it seems like a lot to take on in this amount of rack space without modulation, and you'll end up with relatively static sequences that won't feel worth the money spent.

Think about how much space and functionality is given to the Shuttle System, which is essentially a monosynth (I guess it is technically two voices). All that extra stuff is what makes it an instrument and more than just a Furtherrrr Generator and filter. Try and imagine what it would be like if this rack gave a similar amount of options and playing space to the Zaps and RO'VED (and the QPAS, which is almost more of a voice/sound source/effect than a filter/VCA, and can definitely contribute like a synth voice to a patch even while filtering). How much bigger would it be, or how much more of it would be basic modular plumbing rather than sequencing/clock stuff, voices, amd effects?

Just to clarify:

You said you wanted to be able to make ambient and also upbeat dance music. Will you be doing this alongside the TR-6S, or do you want to do everything in the rack? I just ask because you mentioned you want the rack to sequence itself.

Knowing this will make it a lot easier for me to make suggestions.

Beyond that, it's time to start looking at modulation and utilities. Three voices, even with two in 2hp format, is a lot to keep track of. Function generators/loopable envelopes are always nice because you can experiment with different kinds of events. Attenuverters and VCAs will also be really important, since it will allow you to control amounts/positions for modulation and give you more control. Maths is a good place to start and see how these kinds of simple but potent circuits can improve your system (this stuff is the heart of modular and makes the more feature-heavy/obviously cool stuff work), but you'll probably need more than that to service all the voices in your system. Hopefully you still have the standalone case for that West Pest - you'll need that space later on.

Also, I would suggest just running through every single function on the Disting. All of them. Just to get a sense of what they are and whether they can help you or if you need them in a standalone module with more control. If there's a mode you don't understand, learn it.

EDITED Feb 25th, 04:39

I've generally stuck to one of two strategies at any given time:

1. We agree I set the tempo. They can be any tempo at any time. I have to turn a knob or plan a change in advance. Therefore, they have the flexibility and I do not. So, when I start, they go from there. In a sense, the song becomes the click track.
2. Free improv: No one bothers with tempo too much and we just make cool sounds.

If you time it right, you can have both. One thing I like about the Polyend Tracker as a sequencer using MIDI to CV conversion (or a Nerdseq will do it) is you can program this behavior to happen at specific times and even program sequences that are non-timed.

I think the issue with a tempo-tap based system is you have to always have some rhythmic element that sends steady clock to stuff. You can maybe plan out sections with this, or even an envelope follower depending on what you're doing.

The only option for you I can think of is to think less in terms of melody and more in terms of percussion or just "triggering events". If you set the modular up to respond to drum triggers from you, or maybe some sort of Launchpad/other pad based finger drumming setup, then you'll be fine and you just have to worry about tuning and setting up the patching in advance (relatively speaking) so you can have at least one hand free to trigger stuff.

You could also try the Korg SQ-64, which has a play mode called "isomorphic" where the 64 pads roughly emulate the layout of a bass. The Korg SQ-64 has had a mixed reputation, but it is powerful on paper and may work for you here so you can apply your guitar/bass skills in this context.

EDITED Feb 25th, 04:20

Envelopes.

I really like the Tiptop Buchla 281t because it has 4 loopable envelopes with CV control over attack and decay plus a quadrature mode that kind of makes them all loop and interrelate in weird ways. You might like it in an ambient case as a sort of freeform brain/hub for modulation and clock - I tend to use it both as 4 individual envelopes and also as a weird freeform sequencer of sorts. It's a big module, but it looks like you already have some spots where you've got some cramped modules.

But whether or not you take my specific suggestion, I would just say look at envelopes that you can play around with by hand in contrast to the Zadar, which is awesome but not quite as hands-on, for some variety. I wouldn't put any more small little modules in there unless you find one that really speaks to you, and I'd probably even start looking at blank panels to put in between some of those things at the top.

All of this is sort of beside the point, though: what do you yourself feel is missing? Do you like how it feels so far? Is there anything you don't use as much as expected? Do you like the Forbidden Planet filter? There's always another filter to try out.

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but hopefully...

Hello. I have decided to become a Nerdseq guy. I've been recently playing/working in a group where I program songs and perform them live with a drummer using the Polyend Tracker somewhat fot samples but mostly as a MIDI sequencer/clock for a couple synths and effects I fiddle around with. Basically, I want to adapt this workflow to my existing modular setup as well, and I want to try it with the Nerdseq and all its CV outs rather than a MIDI to CV converter. If I like it, I will probably get the more CV and video expander, and maybe the one with the encoder if I'm feeling rich one day. I don't have enough things to trigger to need 16 triggers and I'm not on the hunt for new voices or anything, but I can't rule anything out.

I have the stuff I want to control with it already - a Moog Mavis, a Pico System III, a small Buchla Tiptop based system that is slightly cramped but a lot of fun, and I suppose my Dust Collector counts as well (though it mostly modulates itself, and I soend maybe half my time onstage playing with it anyway because it's my favorite). It all sounds pretty great to me, but I want to organize it a bit and have a repertoire of structures I can work through.

My question is: what would you add next to a Nerdseq to make it more "playable"? Like, to mess with basic sequences on the fly as they progress and evolve over an arrangement that I've considered in advance (at least in skeletal form). Basically things to make a single patch for a single show as flexible as possible.

I have an 84hp rack and an endorphin.es 2hp power supply for the Nerdseq and whatever else when I get it, and I plan to build this up slowly as and carefully as money becomes available, buy while I have this set up as an 84hp setup, I'm not married to that amount of space for this task. These were my thoughts so far, though:

• Matrix mixer to move CV to different places on a whim
• Maths to do Maths stuff. I've always wanted to try a Maths and I like the idea of access to stuff like slew limiting, envelope rise and fall, attenuverting, etc. as I go. I can even use it to filter one of the samples if I feel crazy.
• Precision adder for moving notes around so that they're still notes.

Maybe a sequential switch as well? I know this isn't an exact science, but I'm trying to see if there's any other cool utilities for this task I haven't thought of yet (I already have a mixer that handles Eurorack). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You can also use a floating ring cable to connect pedals to your modular, or just buy a pedal/effects unit with CV inputs/outputs (there are some really good ones - I have a Finegear Dust Collector that I use on everything, and it even came with LFOs for extra modulation). You don't necessarily need a special module in the rack to interface with pedals.

(Edit: this next part is now irrelevant, apparently. I was incorrect.) Honestly, I wasn't going to comment on oscillators (or the Behringer thing) since it's so personal, but if Brains can't have the new firmware, I also agree that a different Plaits clone that can do the new DX7 patch thing would notably expand your sonic palette in this rack.

EDITED Feb 21st, 12:50

I'm not going to necessarily disagree with the person above, since your open-ended goal will almost undoubtedly lead you to think about more stuff. A Mantis case is not a bad idea for an ambient situation, and even if you don't fill it completely, throwing some blanks in there and calling it a day will make it nice and spacious so things are easier to access.

However, I am a believer in small setups if they are focused, and I did not go the large interwoven case route (yet). There can be advantages to different smaller systems if you're organized about it.

My main suggestion is to not bother with in-rack effects in a synth setup this small. Save that space for LFOs, maybe a Sample and Hold, and an attenuverter/polarizer. Maybe another VCA that's more for CV. Focus on the stuff that makes modular modular for now and then just get outside effects. If a pedal or something has an expression or tempo input, you may even be able to modulate the pedal with CV if you're careful and look up the proper methods.

My other suggestion is to go all out on your filter. If you love the Forbidden Planet, go for it, but it's a bit workmanlike for an ambient setup, where texture makes a huge difference.

I can give you specific suggestions, though I hope you'll also keep looking at other stuff to make it your own.

Sample and Hold: Divkid RND STEP is a good one that offers a lot of function in a small amount of space. You can easily just get the 2hp one as well - this doesn't need to be a complicated circuit to be cool - but then you always need outside modulation.

Envelope/Function Generator: Most of my favorite modules like this are big (Buchla 281t, Maths, Doepfer A-143-1 and 143-2). If you can spare the space, modules like this can make your system really come alive. However, Vostok (the Atlas company) makes an envelope generator that is smaller but gives you tons of loopable envelopes for modulation.

VCA/Attenuators: This is a category where you should do your own research and find out what works best. However, the various clones of Mutable Veils, such as After Later Audio's Cloaks, are popular and have lots of options. I have a Frap Tools 321, an attenuverter, which is very different but works great for me. Learning the differences between these two will help you better understand what works best, but they're both well-liked and popular, and that reliability is a good sign you can use them to learn about this stuff.

Multiple: Definitely get a mult or two. If you want to multiply audio or pitch CV, get a buffered mult (whichever's most popular). If you don't want to do that - and with this many oscillators, I don't know if you would - I'd just say look at 0hp options like the Qu-bit Splitter or the Intellijel Hub. Cheap and easy.

You have a lot of effects in this rack. It is nice to have effects that talk to your modular stuff, but it does take up space for stuff that can be done outside the rack pretty easily. I do think the Versio modules are interesting because of all the different firmwares, though, and keeping one (or both if you're set on them) might be a good way to explore a lot of stuff in one module.

Honestly, you may also want to think about something like a 1010 Music Bluebox standalone (or another mixer that can handle eurorack levels as well). You're going to have a hard time getting a module in that rack to handle 7 audio sources gracefully and ergonomically (especially for techno, where you'll be happier if you can mute stuff and do effects sends). Plus it frees up your Doepfer Quad VCA for more experimental purposes. I don't really understand the way you have it currently with separate mixers for drums and oscillators and then a single stereo out. If you have a reason for it being that way, then that's different, of course, but I think mixing is just one of those things that's hard to do in the rack without a whole new row for this stuff.

I don't know how you like to play this stuff, so you may choose modules that have different sizes or interfaces to these ones to highlight what you like more. Even that big Vermona module could be very useful if you thought you'd get a lot out of having big luxurious knobs and lots of space/options for your LFOs - it just depends on where you want your hands to spend the most time and what parts of your music you want to have control over in the moment. These suggestions are just me trying to add simple functions to what you already have and not change your original vision too much.

EDITED Feb 17th, 16:52

Too many voices and not enough modulation - at least for a setup this size. I would consider taking a look at more envelopes or even a nice function generator, as well as another VCA/attenuator to specifically facilitate modulations of modulation. A module like the Zadar really shines with a VCA or attenuverter alongside it to have more hands-on control of the voltage amounts.

You have a few particularly huge modules in here, and while I think that's actually a good idea ergonomically, it hasn't left you with much room for more modulation with all the voices in there as well. Nevertheless, things like sample and hold or other simple modulation sources will do you a lot of good (and you can get a small sample and hold without much trouble, since they don't really need controls right on the module).

How many voices do you see yourself patching together at one time (drums included)? If it's only 3 or 4, you should be a bit better off, but might still need a couple amenities like what I mentioned above. If you want to run them all at once and really work them, you probably want a fair bit more modulation.

Do you have the standalone case thing for the Ground Control? That extra space could be great for modulation, and it probably makes the sequencer/keyboard more accessible. I understand if you're keen on having it in the rack, but if not, that's valuable real estate.

In terms of voices and sound sources, you definitely want the stuff that speaks to you, but with modulation, it's honestly the stuff that sounds boring, overly technical, or obvious in modular that ends up being the most fun and unique. I would take a look at some Serge and Buchla modules if I were you - not so much to buy them, but just to see how the basic plumbing of modular can help your techno stand out from more rigid and standardized DAW creations (I would also watch some tutorials on Maths, which is not only a great module but a great teaching tool for showing how flexible basic circuits can be). They really illustrate how dense the simple stuff can get and demonstrate how to use one or two voices to make a full and compelling arrangement. Modular techno doesn't have to be minimalist, but it's a lot more fun if it's efficient and all the parts are being pushed.

I kind of like it. It's like a WWII relic. It has an oddly warm, nostalgic look.

It repeats some of the more conventional functionality of Maths, yes, but this frees your Maths up to do other interesting tasks like envelope generator, slew limiter, (low or high frequency) oscillator, subharmonics generator, envelope follower, filter (or just gives you more of the vital functions they share to control your modulations). You aren't really missing functions and tools in this setup - it's more about plumbing to ensure what you have does what you need.

Looking at this system, another idea is one of those 2hp passive low pass gate modules like the Meng Qi DPLPG or the Takaab 2LPG (which is almost better because it has a switch to change between no filter, some filter, and more filter, making it good for transitions or CV). I know you have the Optomix, and that one is great, but I have a 266t and those noise sources are great for percussion or weird sounds to send to resonant filters. It's an ungodly cheap and compact way to add more signal paths into your setup.

Frankly, blanks could also work at this point to create space between some of the smaller and denser modules for ergonomic purposes. Like all of my suggestions, really, this is based on the fact that what you have is already a very deep and powerful system that, supplemented with computer material, can provide you anything from drums and percussion to 60s art noise to pretty twinkly melodies and be very productive. I wouldn't add anything much more complicated to this and a computer (and whatever else you use, I guess) before stopping to practice, record (ABR - always be recording), make some songs with it, assess, and see how much progress you've made so far. Ultimately, you and your responses to what it does will be the best guide.

EDITED Feb 10th, 17:16

Intellijel Quad VCA and Tiptop MISO. Boring on paper but super fun in practice. I also have a little Buchla based setup and modulation/expression/movement is key here.

If you have a DAW and some money to spend, though, you might also look at the Expert Sleepers ES-8 or ES-9 interfaces for interfacing your DAW and modular. Especially in tandem with VCV Rack. It has DC-coupled inputs and outputs so you can sent control voltage to and from your computer, thus allowing you to use software and hardware modules in the same context. This means your setup can expand indefinitely without you spending much money at all, relatively speaking.

Even if you do this, though, I still recommend some kind of hardware attenuation or VCA just to make things playable. The Doepfer A-133-2 is a good small option. 2hp has the Avert and VCA modules, but be careful with these - you have to make sure you have a place for them where they won't get buried and inaccessible.

The Quadrantid Swarm can be purchased in standalone or Eurorack format, so you don't have to spend rack space on it.

Don't be afraid to put things in odd orders so the setup is more ergonomic. What may seem intuitive or natural as a design could be keeping you from playing the thing better. I have two passive low pass gates in 2hp (Meng Qi and Takaab) and I like them a lot, but they sort of form a wall between two sides of your modular when fully patched, and trying to keep a 2hp MMF or Mix next to that and still use them was a challenge. Thankfully, all the other modules in that row are big and very accessible no matter how aggressively I patch them up. Is there a specific area on your setup that's hard to access? I imagine the Doepfer side is doing good since everything is nicely separated into patch points and knobs and you can just sneak in behind the cables, but I could be wrong.

Right angled cables can also help here. There are special "low profile" ones, but even the regular ones help keep the wire mess on the sides of your rack rather than on top of it.

This seems so much more doable now, but it would definitely need to be bigger.