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too many sound sources in this size case imo
not enough support modules for those voices
not enough mixer channels to support all voices - I count 20 (the sound sources, mimeophon and beads) and only 7 mixer inputs - none of which are stereo (and both mimeophon and beads are stereo)
almost definitely not enough vcas - use them for modulation too
no offset, no inversion, no switches
no sub-mixer for mixing dixies outputs before filtering
I would want another filter - maybe 2
dump most of the bottom row, except for tetra, algoryhthm and maybe ears and maybe the i/o
buy a matrix mixer for mixing modulation
consider tesseract modular tex-mix as a end of chain mixer - inexpensive and expandable - I would suggest starting with 3 4mono channels and a 4 stereo channels and a master channel - 12 mono channels with vcas +4 stereo, 2 send/returns, cue/mix and headphones - all in 58hp for less than 400 of your choice of major currency

Hello,

I’m considering purchasing an ES-6 to expand my existing ES-8 inputs. I get that the two need to be connected at their respective boards in order for the ES-6 to function. At that point, however, can each be routed to the ADAT inputs of separate audio interfaces, or to a different bank of ADAT ins on the same interface; or does ES-6 need to be routed through ES-8 ADAT inputs directly.

I’m pretty sure this arrangement will work but thought I would ask as the ES line can sometimes be elusive to a full understanding of how they work together

Thanks in advance!

Yeah, that must how they started with the child labor at Nike, « it makes things cheaper ». It’s all fine, carry on…
-- toodee

it's not why they started, but it is why they haven't stopped it yet...

Clear!!
Thank you @JimHowell1970

there are lots of things you can do

you do not have to use every input and output of a module
you can/should mix outputs from a vco before filtering
do you need to mix all outputs together - no
can you process waveforms differently and then mix before filtering - yes send the non sub through some saturation or a delay or a pitch shifter - and then recombine with the sub before filtering perhaps
can you process outputs separately through different processing chains - yes
can you mix waveforms from different oscillators together before filtering them as one - yes
do vca/vcf/eg etc etc need to be the same model - no - they can be whatever you want them to be - how they behave is how you personalise your modular synth

this is why: sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities works perfectly - for example:

a sound source may have multiple outputs (different waveforms + sub) which want to be mixed (utility - maybe to 2 outputs) and then filtered (sound modifier - maybe 2 filters) and then mixed back through a cascading vca (utility) which needs envelopes (modulation source) - plus somewhere in there there are a lot modulation inputs some of which will want an lfos and/or other modulation sources combined in another (matrix) mixer (utility) perhaps etc etc etc

the more mixers, vcas, mults, envelope generators (and other modulation sources in general) you have the more choices you have in the way you patch your modular together - which makes for more interesting patches

it's fine to have 12 different vcas or 12 identical vcas (or envelope generators or filters or whatever) - it's up to you - generally a selection of linear and exponential (or ones that do both) is good to have though

EDITED Jul 3rd 2021, 15:27

I got it!

BTW, I have a noob question @Ligia @JimHowell1970. If a VCO has 1 Sub-Osc (-1 Oct) output; should I have at least 2 filter, 2 VCA and 4 EG minimum for that particular Oscillator? and preferably, should they be the same model of each one (VCF, VCA, EG)?

Thanks.

Yeah, that must how they started with the child labor at Nike, « it makes things cheaper ». It’s all fine, carry on…

sorry, I know this goes against the grain but I like it. The money I save on this allows me to add to a more expensive boutique module. I would have had to pay double the price if I bought the intellijel one. I.m definitely buying it. so far I have one vca from Behringer and it does the job just as well as my other modules. it looks nice too.

it really depends what you are trying to aim for long term - this just adds a oscillator and a few basic effects

personally I would start by expanding the modulation capabilities some more

maths (see the 'maths illustrated supplement'), links, kinks, shades and veils (or modules that add the same functionality)

and then look at maybe adding another voice (sound source, sound modifier, modulation source) and ways to combine them more - a matrix mixer for modulation and an end of chain mixer (unless you have an external one already)

if you want to get the most variety out of your patches try to think in this ratio:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

I would also suggest reading a load of other - 'how to expand my (insert name of semi-modular)' threads - they are all relevant

1st advice do a lot of research before you spend any money - read lots of noob threads
most of them say to post a link to your public rack - so we can click through and help you

here it is :

to a large extent almost any modules can be used to make any type of music

however mostly when I think of ambient I think of delays and reverbs, vcas and sample and hold and to some extent granular - not really enough of these - unless you are intending to use the distings for this - in which case while disting is an excellent module - get dedicated ones of these - multiples in fact

what do you already own?

big hint - remove the semis from the rack - they already have cases and take up too much space

no where near enough utilities - more mixers (of a variety of types), vcas (I would like to be saying more vcas, but unfortunately you have not done enough research to learn the value of vcas yet), attenuverters, offsets, switches etc

if I wanted 2 disting mk4s I'd buy the EX model instead - more features etc etc

Hello Modular Grid community,
Im a beginner learning to get into this Modular world and I need some advices.
Does this system make sense? What do I have? What do I miss? And is this good for ambient setup?

Hey! I just got into modular synthesis and decided a Minibrute 2S was a good place to start, and now it’s time to expand!

How’s this looking? What should I actually get?

Hmm, moved a module out of one of my racks, and half the modules were deleted from the rack. Using Chrome on Catalina.

After I moved the module out of the rack into the scratch area, I was typing the name of another module into the entry field when I got a generic error message about something going wrong. When I reloaded the page, half the modules were no longer in the rack or in the scratch area - they were deleted. Further refreshes, closing my browser and reloading did not restore the missing modules.

I realize this a free service, but this is frustrating after spending hours tweaking this. I do pay for the additional rack space, but I know I only have so much room to complain. But this is me shaking my tiny fist of righteousness. :D

EDITED Jul 3rd 2021, 00:57

I barely get any feedback on r/modular so I’m posting it here.

That’s it…feeling pretty good about my rack…I only own the DFam and PNW so I’m planing my next purchase. Figured another voice…Plaits…then a quantizer and Bloom…but in this setup…do I need maths?

And don't forget the current chip shortage...it's hitting everyone from car manufacturers to gamers to...well, us. The analog chips aren't so much of an issue, but the embedded processors in some of the more elaborate modules are certainly getting hit by this.

Maybe Sweetwater will redirect this to either the Mutable or Intellijel version on their website, like they did with the Swing. I thought that was a nice gesture...and once they did it, you really didn't hear much about the Swing anymore.
-- Lugia

@Lugia Did they really do this? I never noticed but that is a pretty cool move for a company that I thought had done a complete 180 on Behringer. I remember years ago when they didn't even sell Behringer products at all, for whatever reasons they had.
-- merzky_shoom

Yep, they really did. And still do...go to their site and type "Behringer Swing" into the search. All sorts of Behringer Swings there, all apparently made by some knockoff company called "Arturia".

Frankly, if there's a retailer that can slap the silly out of Uli, it would probably be them. Thomann's clearly bought-in on the Tribe, so you can't count on them for that. And no, Sweetwater isn't as "pro-Uli" as one might think, as that search cross-ref shows. Maybe they think they can get him to behave? Dunno...

EDITED Jul 2nd 2021, 23:29

yes - there are always cycles - as most manufacturers are quite small - and production runs are quite small, which also tends to mean that component orders are quite small etc etc

the pandemic has made things worse and I suspect it will be a while before things get back to normal

Hi Oldan,

Not sure where the issue is? I don't see it to be honest, as you mentioned already:

Their website states that "This case has integrated Erica Synths PSU capable of 1.25A per rail (2.5A total)."

And then you checked your PSU (good by the way to check!) and you found this:

OUT ±12VDC / 1250mA (thus -12 V at 1250 mA = 1.25 A and +12 V at 1250 mA = 1.25 A, together 2.5 A; I assume, unless the manual of that PSU says differently)

So that's the same, isn't it, so... where do you see an issue? Did you bought this Erica Synths case new from Erica Synths or an authorised Erica Synths dealer? If yes, then this should be fine.

You could start with one module, then two, etcetera, in case you are still not sure but I don't see an issue.

Have fun with modular and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Thank you for the explanation, I don't know much about power technicals.
In the meantime Erica support replied and confirmed its all fine, its 2500mA in total.

On trying to reply on posts regarding modules, I can preview my reply, but pressing 'submit' does nothing on W10 both Firefox and Edge.

the attenuation is in brackets because I have no idea if it's there or not - as I said to confirm: ask Mangu

tbh I would be very surprised if there is any significant difference between the 2 modules other than the 1/4" jacks

The Intellijel Atlantis synth-voice module is based on the SH101. But it comes in at around $700.. which goes a long way towards just getting a vintage SH101... or you could buy a Behringer 101... but that might be a personal decision. :)

I do not own a Hydrasynth.

The Hydrasynth has a CV Clock output according to the manual. If the Hydrasynth can sync to your DAW via MIDI, I would assume that it can simultaneously generate the CV clocks you're looking for.

Page 89 of the manual discusses the setting possibilities. There might be lag between the MIDI sync being sent from the DAW until the time the Hydrasynth outputs the clock. Since I don't own the synth... I can't tell you if this is a problem, but the Hydrasynth has offset parameters for just this problem.

You might want to try making the Hydrasynth the true master and slave the DAW via MIDI Clock to it. If you're using a constant tempo, then this shouldn't be an issue. The CV Clock might be more accurate that way.
http://media.justmusic.de/shop/assets/handbuch/10053556_Hydrasynth_Manual.pdf

Experiment a bit and report back. Someone else might have a Hydrasynth and the same questions.

I like Behringer's recreation of old synths that are out of production or only available as a modernized reissue. To me that's fine. The parts to those original synths typically don't exist anymore... so they have to be recreated, moved to a surface mount environment, build them to Eurorack conventions, as well as at least come close to sounding like the original (let's not debate how close for the sake of brevity).

But I find duplicating modern, in-production designs to be too much of an affront. This is a 1:1 rip-off of Intellijel's quad VCA.

If Behringer innovated the design, added more features, changed the ergonomics of it... then I could give it a pass. That's what good cottage industry modular makers do. But this is a bridge too far even for me.

Well that's my $0.02....

Maybe Sweetwater will redirect this to either the Mutable or Intellijel version on their website, like they did with the Swing. I thought that was a nice gesture...and once they did it, you really didn't hear much about the Swing anymore.
-- Lugia

@Lugia Did they really do this? I never noticed but that is a pretty cool move for a company that I thought had done a complete 180 on Behringer. I remember years ago when they didn't even sell Behringer products at all, for whatever reasons they had.

I'm thinking there is a bigger universal picture to my getting into modular...currently not being able to find modules that have been recommended for what I'm wanting to do is forcing me to dive deeper into the two modules I currently have (Maths and Quadrax playing with my Hydrasynth desktop)...however, I did find a FX Aid XL this morning and its now on the way.

I heard that Frap Tools is shipping again, I've been looking to get the 321...that and the QX expander will be coming shortly thereafter...if they are available.

On a more serious note...does availability of modules go in 'cycles'...has the pandemic really hurt the module manufacturers (ie chip and raw material shortages) or is it more the nature of modular in general that availability comes and goes in cycles?

Thanks, @JimHowell1970

With this explicit information:
"rear headers (-> attenuation) -> 1/8" -> 1/4""

It is most certainly you are right, the 3HP version must be modular lvl.
The intention here looks obvious, if you need Line lvls go for the 6HP version.

@Hikove - that's a very good question - I've not built mine (which are the 3hp ones btw) - but I am intending to use them with a es8/es6 combination - which should take both

I suspect they are modular level - as iirc they are pre-fader - but there may be attentuation - not checked the BOM yet - the 6hp versions with 1/4" outputs appear to have some smd ICs (so maybe there is/maybe there isn't), but are also described as usable as standalone 1/8"->1/4" adapters - not that that means anything as signal path could very well be:

rear headers (-> attenuation) -> 1/8" -> 1/4"

most modern mixers/audio interfaces should be able to handle modular level signals - before I got the texmix I was using a cheap yamaha mixer (MG12? cost me about €100 new in the mid-2000s) - and it was fine - just turn the gain right down! or not

if you really want to know send Mangu an email (contact details are on website) - he usually responds pretty quickly

Thank you very much for your points, I took note of all of them and processing!!!

Edir: BTW @JimHowell1970, the Douts's outputs are Line level or Modular level? I am guessing it only makes sense with Line lvl outs, but I must ask anyway. Thanks.

EDITED Jul 2nd 2021, 10:27

DO REGISTER YOUR DESIGNS! Checkout these websites for copyright protection of your designs:

• World Intellectual Property Organization: https://www.wipo.int/designs/en/
• European Union Intellectual Property Network: https://www.tmdn.org/network/home

Patents are expensive, registering your designs isn't. And they will protect against blatant copies of your design work like this one from Behringer FOUR PLAY. They only added a few words and changed colors. But it is clear to anyone that it is a copyright infringement if only the design of the Intellijel Quad VCA is registered.

Hello!

Are there any delay modules similar in sound to the one inside Analogue Solutions Treadstone?

My advice to all companies in the modular synthesis world: DO REGISTER YOUR FRONT PANEL DESIGN! This falls under copyright protection and it makes it very difficult for other companies to almost completely copy that. The FOUR PLAY module from Behringer looks a lot like the Quad VCA from Intellijel, and I'm certain that this will result in a copyright infringement if the design is registered!
Software and Hardware are almost impossible to secure in this way, but at least you can secure your look and feel!

1A = 1000mA

I have a couple of the smaller DIY ones (pusherman and york modular) - the AISynthesis one is similar - if you are pushed for space then they are fine - although if I was to buy one now I would probably go for the doepfer or the 4ms vcam - or maybe the doepfer and a rebel technology mix04 - or maybe the nonlinearcircuits clump

I have the tex-mix - I started with a master channel, 4* mono channels, 4* stereo channels - I have added an extra 4*mono channels, plus another and 2 3hp douts in the DIY backlog

plus points - it's inexpensive, it's properly expandable, it has 'most of the features' that the wmd perf mixer has, it's DIYable (if you want to save a bit more cash) - full kits are relatively expensive, but only as all the smd is pre-populated - so only panel furniture and headers need soldering - about 1/2 hours work or so per module - so not madly labour saving - Mangu's customer service is great and shipping is quick

minus points - vcas only on mono channels, no auto-panning, only 1 headphone output, no stereo send return - only 2 mono to stereo, it uses knobs not faders

but for most of these things there is a work around - mostly get more vcas and utilities

I mainly see vcas on mixers to be used for controlling channel gain - not for shaping individual notes

I've just got a doepfer octal vca to pair with 4*stereo channels - yes I know it's linear - but for channel gain I think it should be fine - not tried it yet and won't for a while (a month at least - long story)

auto panning - how much do you use it?? do you really need it on every channel? I don't use them that much, maybe will in the future with better stereo imaging - a pair of vcas, a mult and an inverter - plus whatever you were going to use to control the panner anyway - all of which may already be in your modular - but you may need more of these

there are 2 mono sends available for each track - I use these as l and r outputs into (currently) an fx aid xl and then just use one of the stereo returns

the faders on the perf mixer are quite short - I find the knobs fine though

Hello Garfield,

Thank you very much for your regular attentive listening and all your kind words!
I’m really happy that my music helps someone to cheer up after a hard day at work. I create it mainly in the evenings after my day work and it also helps me to relax and recover.

Wish this Friday will be more easy and pleasant for you :) Have a nice weekend! Cheers!

Hi Oldan,

Not sure where the issue is? I don't see it to be honest, as you mentioned already:

Their website states that "This case has integrated Erica Synths PSU capable of 1.25A per rail (2.5A total)."

And then you checked your PSU (good by the way to check!) and you found this:

OUT ±12VDC / 1250mA (thus -12 V at 1250 mA = 1.25 A and +12 V at 1250 mA = 1.25 A, together 2.5 A; I assume, unless the manual of that PSU says differently)

So that's the same, isn't it, so... where do you see an issue? Did you bought this Erica Synths case new from Erica Synths or an authorised Erica Synths dealer? If yes, then this should be fine.

You could start with one module, then two, etcetera, in case you are still not sure but I don't see an issue.

Have fun with modular and kind regards, Garfield.

Effin' Uli...OK, going to have to find some brown duct tape to cover up the Behringer logos on the 2600 and Pro-1.

Maybe Sweetwater will redirect this to either the Mutable or Intellijel version on their website, like they did with the Swing. I thought that was a nice gesture...and once they did it, you really didn't hear much about the Swing anymore.

Thanks, great tip!
Btw (a little bit OT, but…), it’s been a while since I looked into the AE modular, but I did yesterday. Those drone modules (DronX & Drone38) seem really interesting. You’re using them?
-- Noctopolis

Not YET...but they ARE on order. Should be here either late this month or sometime in August with Tangible's general order fulfillment scheme.

Frankly, I love the HELL out of my AE. The primary voicing "cores" on that are very Buchla: a dual DCO and dual VCA, plus two main VCOs, a CVable waveshaper, and manual summing mixer per "core". Six of those. Haven't got anything cut with it just yet due to being stuck in an inexorable studio upgrade, but that sound...daaaaaaaamn...

Hi Igor,

Just hitting the play button again. I just finished a hard and long day work and finally, I am getting rewarded with one of your great tracks :-) I don't know how you do it, but seriously after a stressful day of work, there is nothing better than listening at one of your tracks. This latest track does that just fantastic good :-)

I might end up the rest of the night, keep clicking on the play button, can't get enough of it, too nice ;-) Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks @defragmenteur, I will check out those modules in greater detail! Frames in particular has been baffling to me on prior looks; more soak time with the manual and videos will help.

@Lugia, I'm curious if you would have anything to add to the above discussion?

Thanks all!

EDITED Jul 1st 2021, 21:43

They even added the same boost switch. Bruh…

@Egocentre Are Intelijel designs even open source? This just seems like straight-up theft with the expectation that Intellijel wouldn't be able to pay for litigation against a mammoth like Behringer.

EDITED Jul 1st 2021, 18:35

This is a another attempt at getting a quick buck and free advertising by creating outrage. They don't understand or don't CARE about the ethics behind open source workers and deliberately don't put credits anywhere except for their own website that, may I add, nobody visits except their legal team. That's right, just jump into this market, use open source work from a woman without giving proper credits, and call it foreplay because how else would anyone notice your company is run by actual pigs?

EDIT: corrected by @merzky_shoom ; I understood this as a clone of MI's veils mixed with a 1:1 copy of the Quad VCA front panel from Intellijel, well, turns out this time they don't even bother protecting themselves by taking open source work, they apparently just went straight for plagiarism? So eurorack module manufacturers have to buy patents now??

EDITED Jul 1st 2021, 19:59

It was mainly my computer's in-built sound card, things are now better with the Roland Rubix 22 I grabbed off ebay.

I'll be trying Clouds into Mimeophon, I'll probably use sounds from the ADDAC103 into Monsoon Clouds (no Reverb) then into Mimeophon, I expect this to be fairly fun.

Erica Sample Drum is a fun option.

What is the best all-in-one module for messing with drum breaks?

repeat, pitch, reverse, etc. hopefully with lots of cv!

Words fail. This is disgraceful.