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I agree, AnalogSpecies. This becomes dangerous and giving precedent for many bad things happening.. from Behringher

the great danger is that it will destroy the modular scene. a euro rack scene only with big players --- bleakly boring - but cheap for everyone ---. i don't have a lot of money either, but i can't buy the behringer - that would betray the scene. I prefer not to buy one or one later. people who want to save should think twice at this point.

What I recommend is a Doepfer A100 Basic System. That will get you started with a case/power, basic modules and support modules to learn to create music on modular systems. I started that way and it was helpful. Under 2k, get it all and Doepfer modules sound great. Some info:

http://www.doepfer.de/a100s_e.htm#A-100%20Basic%20System%201

I expanded quickly and still use most of my Doepfer modules.

nice! really enjoyed that!
-- jb61264

Thank you :)

Cool! I was trying to fit the Intellijel oscilloscope in the beginning and was worried that I'd get stuck needing to visualize everything instead of just hearing it. But as I play with PNW I do fall into the trap of just turning a knob and hoping it does something I like. Because of that approach I may be just passing that sweet spot because I miss hearing what happens. An oscilloscope would help.
As much as I want to fill up this case, it has been nice to just have the DFAM and PNW. Play around and then reset.

Think I am gonna get Maths. I just keep hearing how it never really gets used and people don't dive deep into it, but that's not the fault of the module.
Thanks for all the advice!

Fair enough. The reason I ask is because you will see many of the people who have been doing this a long time recommend against building an 808 or 909 in a rack due to both cost and workflow. This is good advice. When it comes to performing techno, it's really hard to argue against an external X0X sequencer. In my opinion it's the best option. Everything is already hardwired but still tweakable, and you can still integrate it with your rack via the clock, triggers, and individual outs.
I have taken this hybrid approach myself. I use a combination of the Behringer RD8 (the only Behringer piece I own, but I love it) and some Eurorack drums and multiple Euro sequencers. I initially tried to do what you are planning but found that the performance workflow was severely limited. Building around an external drum machine really encouraged a hands-on approach. There are a few mind-blowing YouTube videos of Jeff Mills performing techno on an old TR909. Check them out. Some people like Elektron drum machines but I never gelled with their ergonomics. You won't have CV control over every parameter of the 909 sounds, but you can add things like Basimilus and WMD drum modules (or oscillators and LPGs) to your rack as a supplement so you have control over other drum sounds.
If you are just getting started building this, allow yourself some room to change direction with your build. You may find that what you think you would enjoy workflow-wise is really awful. Take your time and only add a module or two at a time.
-- farkas

I really appreciate the advice and it's definitely something to keep in mind. I do plan on only adding a couple modules at a time as I don't have thousands of dollars to spend at a moments notice, and the drums/sequencer were (maybe are) definitely going to be bought last in case I change my mind. Thank you!

Fair enough. The reason I ask is because you will see many of the people who have been doing this a long time recommend against building an 808 or 909 in a rack due to both cost and workflow. This is good advice. When it comes to performing techno, it's really hard to argue against an external X0X sequencer. In my opinion it's the best option. Everything is already hardwired but still tweakable, and you can still integrate it with your rack via the clock, triggers, and individual outs.
I have taken this hybrid approach myself. I use a combination of the Behringer RD8 (the only Behringer piece I own, but I love it) and some Eurorack drums and multiple Euro sequencers. I initially tried to do what you are planning but found that the performance workflow was severely limited. Building around an external drum machine really encouraged a hands-on approach. There are a few mind-blowing YouTube videos of Jeff Mills performing techno on an old TR909. Check them out. Some people like Elektron drum machines but I never gelled with their ergonomics. You won't have CV control over every parameter of the 909 sounds, but you can add things like Basimilus and WMD drum modules (or oscillators and LPGs) to your rack as a supplement so you have control over other drum sounds.
If you are just getting started building this, allow yourself some room to change direction with your build. You may find that what you think you would enjoy workflow-wise is really awful. Take your time and only add a module or two at a time.
-- farkas

I really appreciate the advice and it's definitely something to keep in mind. I do plan on only adding a couple modules at a time as I don't have thousands of dollars to spend at a moments notice, and the drums/sequencer were (maybe are) definitely going to be bought last in case I change my mind. Thank you!

Fair enough. The reason I ask is because you will see many of the people who have been doing this a long time recommend against building an 808 or 909 in a rack due to both cost and workflow. This is good advice. When it comes to performing techno, it's really hard to argue against an external X0X sequencer. In my opinion it's the best option. Everything is already hardwired but still tweakable, and you can still integrate it with your rack via the clock, triggers, and individual outs.
I have taken this hybrid approach myself. I use a combination of the Behringer RD8 (the only Behringer piece I own, but I love it) and some Eurorack drums and multiple Euro sequencers. I initially tried to do what you are planning but found that the performance workflow was severely limited. Building around an external drum machine really encouraged a hands-on approach. There are a few mind-blowing YouTube videos of Jeff Mills performing techno on an old TR909. Check them out. Some people like Elektron drum machines but I never gelled with their ergonomics. You won't have CV control over every parameter of the 909 sounds, but you can add things like Basimilus and WMD drum modules (or oscillators and LPGs) to your rack as a supplement so you have control over other drum sounds.
If you are just getting started building this, allow yourself some room to change direction with your build. You may find that what you think you would enjoy workflow-wise is really awful. Take your time and only add a module or two at a time.

If you are really new to this and as you say "go through the phase of just plugging things in and see what happens" I'd suggest you may benefit from an oscilloscope.

It's one of those modules that you may think unnecessary, but time and again I've seen even seasoned modular fanatics benefit from being able to visually see what their CV is doing.

Wrapping your head around the actual working functions of things will help you better approach your build as well, IMO, YMMV.

You could get something small, like the Intellijel oscilloscope, or the Mordax DATA if you want to have the absolute best, and could always sell it down the line when you feel more confident in anticipating what each module will do when you patch it.

As to MATHS, it's giant, but it does afford a lot of opportunities, as long as you are willing to sit with it. Just off the top of my head, combined with DFAM, you would be able to achieve a great many rhythmic modulations with just that module, paired with Pam's you will be surprised at the variety, and as someone mentioned, paired with another function generator as well you'd have a never-ending way of creating modulating patterns and timbres.

Get more VCA's than you think you need as well.

nice! really enjoyed that!

Okay, here's a serious question: Why not just get a Behringer RD9 and save yourself a LOT of money? You would have all of your 909 sounds, the X0X sequencer and three trigger outs to trigger the Basimilus, envelopes, etc. all for about $400.
Is there a reason you want to do this all in the rack?
-- farkas
Quite a few reasons. I like having control over every parameter, and I like a lot of the experimental patches only modular could create. I also like the ability of swapping things in and out whenever I choose and having a completely different system. The final and less important reason is desk space. I would ending up having the same amount of space being taken up by the modular system, but also the RD9 and it would simply get too cluttered and potentially ruin my workflow.

Okay, here's a serious question: Why not just get a Behringer RD9 and save yourself a LOT of money? You would have all of your 909 sounds, the X0X sequencer and three trigger outs to trigger the Basimilus, envelopes, etc. all for about $400.
Is there a reason you want to do this all in the rack?

A somewhat uplifting piece. Patch details in the video description.

Hi AndyGuelcher. You mention that you would like this to be a "performance" system. How do you envision performing with the modules you have selected so far? The WMD mixer and Voltage Block will probably give you some hands-on tweaking, but you may want to look into some extra utilities like switches (Acid Rain Switchblade is a fun one), an OR logic module like the Low Gain Short Bus so that you can combine triggers to tweak and combine beats on the fly, some of the SoundMachines touch plates (or the Make Noise Pressure Points), and my favorite: Future Sound Systems Makrow.
If you are really interested in creating a performance oriented system, you will probably want as many interactive and hands-on modules as possible. That is kind of how I have developed my own techno performance rack.
Also, the Javelin is really cool but I think you will find a need for a lot more envelopes and/or LFOs. I would get rid of the 2hp modules and Javelin to add something like a Quadrax or Noise Engineering Pons Asinorum. The Plasma Drive is taking up an awful lot of space too. Maybe consider the Erica Drum Mixer (with integrated compressor) and one of the Noise Engineering 4hp distortion modules. In my view, that would be a better use of space. This is still a fairly small system, and you will need to maximize every single hp.
Hope that gives you some ideas to consider.
Have fun and good luck!
-- farkas

I really like these ideas. I do own an extra 84HP Tip Top case and could easily move any modules that I cannot fit in this system there. I also found out my Arturia case is actually 88HP instead of 84. I did some re-arranging and incorporated your ideas into the system and came up with this:

I like this a whole lot. That makrow module also looks especially useful and will absolutely be incorporated into the system no matter what. Ultimately the goal for this system is to make recordings and sets I can put up on soundcloud or wherever, and the extra tactile modules are a great idea. Thank you.

Thanks Garfield, yeah it was a lot of fun. We drank good beer, ate ribs and patched weird sounds on the modular. I’m trying to form a local modular synth group here in Sacramento area of Northern California now that the covid lockdowns have finally ended.

Thanks, greenfly - good to see you had success for your setup, and thanks for your insights.

Are you using yours as a second interface with your UAD? I'm just going ADAT into the MOTU 624 and I honestly don't remember setting ES8 clock to internal under those conditions, but just establishing MOTU as ADAT master, and assuming ES8 hears and obeys.

I have the 8A on order as I need the additional inputs straight out- but haven't yet committed to ES6 until I work with connecting the two interfaces together and getting that stable (it's never as seamless as they make it sound, of course). I might even see how much I can use 8A's outputs to communicate with modular and VCV, etc.. since like your UAD, the I/O in the MOTUs is DC coupled.

Sometimes you never know how things will work until you start connecting cable - everything is just theory until then!

Hi Sacguy71,

Nice to see and hear a video/jam from you again. Lovely views on your new studio. Looks like this time you have someone helping you out with all the patches :-) Must be a lot of fun!

You have some interesting sounds there, especially the beginning of the jam I like it a lot.

Oh nice, long time haven't seen your Elektron, almost forgot about that one! Thanks a lot for sharing and kind regards, Garfield.

They're OK, sure...although I think the choice of the Brains module would be better-fit by using the actual Plaits oscillator that Uli ripped off. Costs more, but it's a more ethical choice. As for the FX modules, it's a decent complement, but you might also look at some smaller modules with more capabilities (the FX Aid XL comes to mind here) as keeping things small but playable is one of the keys to making this work. This will involve going to smaller modules, but at the same time you want to establish a point at which things get TOO dense for playability to work for your methods.

Another possibility would be to go with a complex oscillator, something a bit more Buchla-ish. With many of these, you get a continuum of variable timbres instead of the fixed wavetables of the Plaits. Bigger, yep, and more expensive...but more versatile in terms of the timbral variety. You also don't necessarily need a second oscillator for detuning and FM with one of those, since the "second oscillator" is already part of the module.

And while working out the build, try and aim for modules that offer multiple functions. For instance, while it's possible to get separate VCAs in modules, you want VCA modules that can also mix, preferably with a "breakable" mixbus like the Veils or Intellijel's Quad VCA. Or if you want something that distorts, look for devices that get tagged as "character" mixers, etc, that let you submix signals while, at the same time, offering a distortion/waveshaping capability. That sort of thing also helps economize space in a small cab such as the Rackbrute 6U.

That sounds like a potential problem, actually. Remember, you only have 176 hp (of which 5 gets lost to the P/S module) in which to create something that does effects processing, sequenced patterns, AND generative processes. And from experience, it's possible to build something that DOES do all of that...but it ain't gonna fit in 176 hp. You're going to have to constrain the purposes here.

Since this is attached to a Minibrute 2s, go ahead and consider the sequencing part to be done. That simply leaves the timing aspects for that function. Effects: easy. There's even loads of space-efficient FX processors in the Eurorack domain.

Generative, however...to make really effective generative music, you need a LOT of modules that can transform one sort of signal into many different signals. So, we're talking about comparators for picking off gates from modulation signals, discriminators that can solve for minimum, maximum, or median control voltages, automated methods of globally changing modulation behavior, VCA complements that can function as mix automators, etc etc etc. Long list, basically. And if you don't go this complex, what you'll get will be the modular synth equivalent of one of those intensely-annoying "chirpy bird" electronic Xmas tree ornaments that only makes one or two sounds decently.

At the same time, it's TECHNICALLY possible to jam this all into a 176 hp cab...if you like moving three controls when you only meant to move one, and accidentally unplugging cables from a super-dense tangle of wires that overlays everything. There is a point at which you have to give way to the musical idea for the sake of making the musical instrument playable, though. In short, you might either want to scale down what this build is intended to accomplish, or consider scaling the build UP to a point where it's possible to do generative w/o it being a total snafu.
-- Lugia

Thank you for that incite! I see what you're saying. I think I'll probably focus then on enhancing my sequences and standard synth capabilities (I sometimes plug a MIDI controller into it for the keys), while leaving room to begin a generative system which it sounds like I'll have to get another case to actually fully accomplish.

Does that sound like an actual direction? I know with modular, direction is everything. And if so, are these some good standard modules for a beginning?

That sounds like a potential problem, actually. Remember, you only have 176 hp (of which 5 gets lost to the P/S module) in which to create something that does effects processing, sequenced patterns, AND generative processes. And from experience, it's possible to build something that DOES do all of that...but it ain't gonna fit in 176 hp. You're going to have to constrain the purposes here.

Since this is attached to a Minibrute 2s, go ahead and consider the sequencing part to be done. That simply leaves the timing aspects for that function. Effects: easy. There's even loads of space-efficient FX processors in the Eurorack domain.

Generative, however...to make really effective generative music, you need a LOT of modules that can transform one sort of signal into many different signals. So, we're talking about comparators for picking off gates from modulation signals, discriminators that can solve for minimum, maximum, or median control voltages, automated methods of globally changing modulation behavior, VCA complements that can function as mix automators, etc etc etc. Long list, basically. And if you don't go this complex, what you'll get will be the modular synth equivalent of one of those intensely-annoying "chirpy bird" electronic Xmas tree ornaments that only makes one or two sounds decently.

At the same time, it's TECHNICALLY possible to jam this all into a 176 hp cab...if you like moving three controls when you only meant to move one, and accidentally unplugging cables from a super-dense tangle of wires that overlays everything. There is a point at which you have to give way to the musical idea for the sake of making the musical instrument playable, though. In short, you might either want to scale down what this build is intended to accomplish, or consider scaling the build UP to a point where it's possible to do generative w/o it being a total snafu.

What baffles me is the fact that certain people keep screwing around with other peoples work. ModularGrid is a wonderful tool and we can all enjoy it for free. At least have the courtesy to not ruin this place for others.

A bunch of kiddies seem to think they're in the resistance fighting for the good cause. Like Behringer actually care what goes on here.

A user named LYFoulidis has changed all Behringer modules to "blind panel" yesterday. Can an admin remove these edits?

Hi AndyGuelcher. You mention that you would like this to be a "performance" system. How do you envision performing with the modules you have selected so far? The WMD mixer and Voltage Block will probably give you some hands-on tweaking, but you may want to look into some extra utilities like switches (Acid Rain Switchblade is a fun one), an OR logic module like the Low Gain Short Bus so that you can combine triggers to tweak and combine beats on the fly, some of the SoundMachines touch plates (or the Make Noise Pressure Points), and my favorite: Future Sound Systems Makrow.
If you are really interested in creating a performance oriented system, you will probably want as many interactive and hands-on modules as possible. That is kind of how I have developed my own techno performance rack.
Also, the Javelin is really cool but I think you will find a need for a lot more envelopes and/or LFOs. I would get rid of the 2hp modules and Javelin to add something like a Quadrax or Noise Engineering Pons Asinorum. The Plasma Drive is taking up an awful lot of space too. Maybe consider the Erica Drum Mixer (with integrated compressor) and one of the Noise Engineering 4hp distortion modules. In my view, that would be a better use of space. This is still a fairly small system, and you will need to maximize every single hp.
Hope that gives you some ideas to consider.
Have fun and good luck!

All Behringer modules are showing up as "Blind Panel". I fixed the tags for some modules, but it seems that all modules have been changed.

it really depends what you are trying to aim for long term - this just adds a oscillator and a few basic effects

personally I would start by expanding the modulation capabilities some more

maths (see the 'maths illustrated supplement'), links, kinks, shades and veils (or modules that add the same functionality)

and then look at maybe adding another voice (sound source, sound modifier, modulation source) and ways to combine them more - a matrix mixer for modulation and an end of chain mixer (unless you have an external one already)

if you want to get the most variety out of your patches try to think in this ratio:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

I would also suggest reading a load of other - 'how to expand my (insert name of semi-modular)' threads - they are all relevant
-- JimHowell1970

Thank you! I think what I'm interested in mostly at first is things to add flavor to the sequences that I make with the S2. That's why I thought of reverb and delay and stuff like that...but I also would eventually like my system to allow me to make sequences of sounds I like, but also generative patches so it basically plays itself and I can manipulate it with settings and effects.

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....
-- Gemuesepfanne

Hello, I have a few of the Behringer modules and can confirm there is nothing wrong with the build quality. I recently bought the Behringer 140 which has two adsr's with two outputs for the envelope and one inverted envelope (excellent) and also a very feature packed lfo. I got all that for £70 so over the moon with that purchase.

I'd be interested if the experts here could build all that functionality in a smaller hp footprint and as competitively priced. It would be nice to have the lights on the sliders included like I have which look slick when the lights in my room are dimmed. I am even thinking of investing in most of the Roland line just for the sheer aesthetics of how beautiful it looks.

Also I bought the 914 filter back for £46 and when I was researching this I remember seeing one by AJH at £475 which seemed like too much money to invest in for something I wouldn't be using all the time.

Best :)

I enjoy the Malekko Voltage Block, a 16x8 CV sequencer. Very fun to use. It is 20hp, so it takes up some space, but I've found it very useful for modulation and tweaking arpeggios on the fly.

Thank you for your advice.

Could you recommend a dedicated 16x4 CV sequencer that you enjoy? Are we talking René, or is there something more cost effective and beginner friendly?

maybe look at 2hp for a kick and snare - maybe even a hats - do check for depth though - 2hp can be quite deep and the nifty case does not seem that deep
-- JimHowell1970

Just a heads up that any 42mm deep 2hp modules should fit just fine in the Nifty. I've had the VCO and the VCA in that case, and while it is tight, there is still a few mm of clearance once seated.

Maths/quadrax/pams is probably more than enough for modulation - what's your use case for o&c?

O&C is a great universal module. It can do duty as a sequencer, modulation source, quantizer, and so forth. It was a module I started with and would still recommend.

mimetic digitalis looks very fiddly for a sequencer - I would do some research - if possible try one out before buying - sequencers are quite important in terms of workflow - if you don't get on with your sequencer(s) you will not get one with your modular

I own a Mimetic Digitalis. It's nice for improv stuff. I find it preferable for modulations but for note pitch... not as much. But it's 16 steps by 4 channels in a small space. If you have the room for a dedicated 16x4... by all means. But for jamming, it's nice, especially hooking it up to a couple of Euclideans for advancing steps or jumping/resetting the sequencee.

also the lack of something to combine triggers would seem frustrating - euclidean circles and pams - maybe a trigger combiner - or a switched multiple

A logic module capable of "OR" is great for combining triggers. A Blue Lantern CMOS party is $80US.

-- JimHowell1970

Thanks again, this is very sound advice!

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....
-- Gemuesepfanne

but that is effectively what they have done... from their point of view the aluminium faceplates may work out not that much more expensive due to economies of scale - and the sales of modules are no where near the numbers for guitar pedals - worldwide there are millions of guitarists, most of whom have some pedals - an existing market - whereas with synthesizers there may well be millions of synthesists - but only a small percentage of them have modulars - a much smaller existing market... and for the ones that don't have modulars, it's easier to sell them semis - as they don't require racks, power or sometimes patch cables

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 15:18

No problem

I think the best way to look at it is that it is as a long term project

get a minimum viable synth:

sound source (vco) - plaits is popular and versatile
sound modifier (filter, delay etc) - I'd go for a low pass filter probably - doepfer do quite a few different ones for a reasonable price
modulation source (lfo/env gen/functino gen) - maths - google - 'maths illustrated supplement'
a way to listen - you got it already -4ms module
a way to play - again already got it - Pam's - will do
a decent sized case - already got it - mantis

and ideally a few utility modules - I usually recommend links, kinks, shades, veils (or similar modules - mia instead of shades for example)

and start patching - give it at least a month to learn those modules - as you patch you will work out what you are missing - take note and research and ask questions - buy one of the modules that you are missing, whatever that is -

then buy modules slowly - and save for the next case by sticking (cost of case * hp of module)/ (hp of case) in a jar - when your case is full you will have money for the next one!

you can build up a decent sized modular that will do what you want (and that you will know very well) over as long as you want to take - even a budget of €50-100/month will fill a mantis in a few years - this gives you time to research each new module thoroughly and to learn it back to front in conjunction with your existing modules

in lots of ways this is much better than buying loads of modules at once as that method can be overwhelming and often leads to not knowing your modules that well

all publicity is good publicity - we are all talking about them - the more we talk about them the more people hear the name etc etc etc

there's an Irish airline called Ryanair - their CEO has a similar approach - so he's been known to suggest standing room only flights and charging 5€ to use the toilet

every time he comes out with one of these the share prices go up

-- JimHowell1970

My sentiments exactly. The only reason I have heard of this module is because there's a discussion here, not that there's any problem with that.

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 10:42

Thank you very much for your advice, it's really useful.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced, that a system this size will not be able to do all the things I originally imagined it would. I think I have to re-evaluate my plans. I'm glad I haven't invested much in parts yet.

just to add that in my experience it doesn't matter whether you buy used modules, new modules, cheap modules, expensive modules, DIY them yourself - you spend the same amount of money on modules - you just get more modules for your money (and possibly some tools - soldering iron etc and wood work equipment mainly - so you can build more cases)

distings can be used for lots of things - including almost everything I mentioned (not sure there is a granular algo) - I really recommend that you read the manual of every module you are considering buying before you buy it - otherwise you will be buying modules that do not do what you want them to - possibly confusing different types of module etc

but each disting can only do 1 thing at a time - unless you get the ex which mostly works as 2 mk4s - although some algos use all of it at once

for a complete basic synth voice you need:

a sound source (a vco), a sound modifier (a low pass filter), a modulation source (an lfo/envelope generator/function generator), a way to listen (I'd use a quad cascading vca such as veils to start with) and a way to play it (sequencer/midi->cv/cv keyboard)

I also strongly recommend links/kinks/shades as a great starter utility set

for a modulation source - I always recommend Make Noise Maths as it is a brilliant learning tool, mainly because of the 'maths illustrated supplement' it is a guide to self patching (patch programming) maths with 32 illustrated examples - a great way to learn modular thinking and patching - working your way through the supplement a few times is a great learning experience - in fact I'd usually recommend this as a first module to go with semis - it will replace both the doepfer dual slew limiter and function generator and add a second function generator and some other useful functions - and only take up another 4 hp

I'd much rather have Doepfer modules (I have quite a few actually) than behringer (I have none) - they are inexpensive, but have a much longer track record of manufacturing eurorack modules - Dieter invented the format - Uli seems to be an ass - not just because of cloning everything and anything (and sometimes in a dumb way - exact clones of early synth modules are not always totally compatible with other eurorack modules etc)

nb personally I wouldn't want a doepfer midi->cv module (I've heard some people have difficulty getting them to work - not sure which ones though) - I'd want more channels though

there are many other inexpensive brands - and some more expensive brands make modules that are more than worth the extra $/€/£ - due to combining functions cleverly

at the end of the day it comes down to do you want to support the big company with poor ethics, or a smaller company with (at least slightly) better ones - do you want to give your money to the original designer (if possible) or do you not care

personally I prefer smaller sometimes more innovative companies (Doepfer is 4 people in Germany, Mutable is 1 in France etc etc) behringer is 1000s mostly in China

behringer quality appears to be poor (nb this is based on watching a few videos and reading forums, I've never seen a behringer module in real life - although I have seen other products from them that were poor quality in the past) - they use stickers on their knobs that have a tendency to fall off, print on panels that is easy to remove etc etc

as always when something appears on the market and appears to be significantly cheaper than a lot of the competition - the 1st question should be how?

economies of scale - behringer can achieve economy of scale like no other synth manufacturer - partly due to their size, but also due to the fact that they own factories that manufacture a lot of 'reissue' chips - which they and other manufacturers use

quality of components - most module manufacturers use thonkiconn jack sockets - these have nuts for the front panel - and also use pots with nuts to hold them to the front panel (and put knobs on them that don't fall apart, see above) these hold the module together well - behringer uses neither from what I can see - they'd be much better if they had spent an extra 2$/€/£ on panel components and charged an extra 10$/€/£

cheap manufacture - behringer is effectively a fmcg company - all their manufacture is in china - most modular companies either build themselves in their garage or shed or attic - or get stuff fabricated locally - Mutable uses a fab in france for example

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 09:10

Thank you for all your honest opinions. Im just looking on a good deal on a Doepfer system with some basic modules, so I want to plan a system on this forum to get ideas and vision for the long way. I will also have to learn more about utilities and vcas. I will have to build up this system slowly, and maybe ideas will changes over time. Im just glad to plan a system on here, reading modules, and interacting with this nice community. Thank you so much!

however mostly when I think of ambient I think of delays and reverbs, vcas and sample and hold and to some extent granular - not really enough of these - unless you are intending to use the distings for this - in which case while disting is an excellent module - get dedicated ones of these - multiples in fact

What can I use the distings for this case?

what you have in actual modules is nowhere near being suitable as a synth voice.

Which modules should I go for to complete a synth voice with my basic modules?

And what are your thoughts on Behringer modules?
Thank you for your advices!

all publicity is good publicity - we are all talking about them - the more we talk about them the more people hear the name etc etc etc

there's an Irish airline called Ryanair - their CEO has a similar approach - so he's been known to suggest standing room only flights and charging 5€ to use the toilet

every time he comes out with one of these the share prices go up

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 04:13

some of the fx aid algorithms do the mono->stereo thing too

you are trying to do too much of it in too small a space

I would pick either evolving ambient or faster electronic music to start with and also leave out the drums (drum machines are so much cheaper)

there are too many sound sources in the rack - and not enough support modules to get the most out of them

a good place to start looking would be mixing - try to imagine mixing the sound sources/modifiers in the rack - some of them are stereo - some are mono - not enough channels to manage all of it well - no mono->stereo sub-mixing to feed to the effects - your mixing solution needs a serious rethink - yes you could 'mix' everything - using veils etc - but your options are very limited and won't leave a lot of mising /vca channels for other things

you probably want a filter for the MCO

Maths/quadrax/pams is probably more than enough for modulation - what's your use case for o&c?

mimetic digitalis looks very fiddly for a sequencer - I would do some research - if possible try one out before buying - sequencers are quite important in terms of workflow - if you don't get on with your sequencer(s) you will not get one with your modular

also the lack of something to combine triggers would seem frustrating - euclidean circles and pams - maybe a trigger combiner - or a switched multiple

and speaking of multiples - I would get a few stackcables and/or headphone splitters as well as looking at a buffered mult or maybe 2 (often they come in pairs) - perhaps links - that has 2 - one of which can be used as a a 2in 1 out mixer/precision adder (for adding v/oct signals) and a second simple mixer - very useful - as is kinks if you can find one (3 useful utilities you don't have)

Fun times jamming with another modular synth enthusiast this weekend

H. L.g..,

DMT? Th.r. .s th.s f.nt.st.c pl.n.t th.t h.s m.ch b.tt.r st.ff th.n th.t. Tr. 2 go 2 planet DrgsAllUCn U53 ;-)

S.rry c.nn.ct..n .s dr.pp.n., g..d by. G.rf..ld.

I just wonder what sort of weirdass wiring in Uli's head makes him do things like this. One minute, he's reissuing synths and other devices that are legendary pieces of "unobtainium", and the next he's ripping off small manufacturers and insulting music journalists. When he's not putting out things that give modern players the ability to use classic hardware (to varying degrees of success), he's really giving his own firm a big black eye and making it embarrassing to own anything from Behringer. Doesn't seem like a sensible business model to me...

OK, Garfield...where'd you get the DMT?

Another fave, also 6 hp: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/frequency-central-stasis-leak-

The Stasis Leak has the ability to "stereoize" signals via its effects...mono in, stereo out, with your choice of tap delay, chorus, or reverb.

https://www.memecenter.com/fun/574238/please-dont-feed-the-trolls

Hi Wedoh,

Oh come on, you must be joking! This "Drifting through Space" is topping everything about space here ;-) Clicking for the 2nd time the play button. I got stuck on earthlings-date 03-07-2021 on planet Ioptraly 7Y5, that's considered still within the inner-hyper-space zone, hence the 3-alpha-digit code behind the planet. I wasn't able to leave Ioptraly 7Y5, your music was good enough to get me there but so far I never made it to go much further...

I am saying this because here in the inner-hyper-space zone Ioptraly 7Y5 is rather known (I didn't know that when I just arrived on the 3rd of July earthy year 2021) as a famous transit planet to go to the intermediate-hyper-space zone. You need something seriously strong to be able to do that, never managed to do that just yet. However now listening to your "Drifting through Space" that seems to be just that what I needed to go to the intermediate-hyper-space zone, what an experience!

I will tell you upfront (kind of spoiler), this is seriously scary, never experienced this before and I would say I am kind of intermediate experienced with hyper space travelling ;-) This intermediate-hyper-space zone where I am now... that's seriously scary. I am travelling for how long now already? Need to Zopple to see how long in earthly understandings... give me a minute...

Ah yes, what we called light years, I have travelled around 785 million light years now and... seriously never seen this, all the way through this distance/time I haven't seen a thing. Nothing, seriously nothing, this is scary! Normally you use to see a few stars or a planet if you are lucky but at least something, but here is just nothing, nothing at all and that for such a long distance/time!

Time is disappearing here too. Here on earth this message would take me hours to write, here in intermediate-hyper-space zone it's a matter of a few micro seconds or something. Yo.. d.dn t not.c. ye th.t th. Int.rn.t c.nn.ct..n is dr.pp.ng?

D.d I m.nt..ned .lre.dy th.t th.s is s.r...sly f..k.ng sc.ry? W.ll th.nk. a l.t f.r th.s gr..t .xp.r.nc. not s.r. w.en I w.l. b. b.ck. K.n. r.g.rd., G.rf..l.

Taking bets on us having a Behringer 'Algebra' by the end of 2021. A sub $130 takes on Maths, like for like in every manner, only they have scribbled 'fuck you' right where the make noise logo use to be.