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by the look of it one of those row power 25s is powerful enough to power all 120hp

Ok, you definitely have a good point. I got a question on this topic: would it be a good idea to drill a hole in the case to allow air to circulate better?
Given the power required by my small case I believe I could be ok with 2000 mA, which should allow me to power 120hp with no problems. Am I right?

Thanks
F

EDITED Oct 21st 2020, 15:33

Hi Guitarsenal,

Ha, ha, yeah just two very plain filters, but might be useful if you just want to cutoff at a certain frequency.

Did you or anyone have heard of any update regarding Behringer versus their Eurorack modules? Pretty quiet around that theme, isn't it?

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.
-- GarfieldModular

I am logging my Behringer System 55 modifications on the mufferwiggler Behringer System 55 thread. Pot And cap changes, demos, and analysis.

Thanks Garfield! Glad you enjoyed it!

hit me baby one more time

Interesting. Learning modular, I find that small cv/audio mixers, mults, and logic modules as well as sequential switches and trigger gate sequencers to be of great use to me for making the most of 1-3 sound sources to create live sets for performance variation. I am looking for a good variety of these.

Fun jam session with Make Noise 0-ctrl/0-coast as pad/lead line and drone from modular setup.

Thanks yeah it ran longer than 2 minutes! Loving Quadrax it can run like a function generator, envelope generator, LFOs or like a trigger sequencer even. Quite powerful on par with Maths. You can even route CV across the four envelope cycles. In many ways, it reminds me of a combination of Malekko Varigate 4+ and Malekko Quad Envelope modules in one module since I have these modules as well for comparison. The Quadrax expander is a game changer that lets you add an additional 4 channels for modulation based on the end of rise and end of cycle values in the configuration. Infinite pattern patches! It is very Buchla-esque similar to the Buchla 281 function generator. It is fun- I love Serge and Buchla west coast stuff but cannot afford 20k for a full Serge setup or 50k for Buchla full setup so this gets me in the ballpark for way less cash.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000528746385.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.41ef3a40cBDWxj&algo_pvid=dbcb485f-b95f-45b2-b0b2-531a3eb19045&algo_expid=dbcb485f-b95f-45b2-b0b2-531a3eb19045-15&btsid=0bb0624316032324607258781e8bdc&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

OK...at the other end of that spew of alphanumerics (which MG's forum didn't like very much), there's this little $25-ish mixer. 4-in, 1-out...stereo 3.5mm I/O...and PASSIVE, meaning that it needs zero power...which ALSO means that you can treat these like those inline mults that you can stick inline anywhere in a patch.

Maybe.

I'm still trying to get info on these, but I'm trying to do this via AliExpress which...well, it's AliExpress. Those who've been there will know what I'm talking about. The big unanswered questions are:

1) maximum voltage input allowable (presuming very low voltage loss by the circuit, I'll presume for now that there's more or less a 1:1 relationship between inputs and the output)

2) can it pass DC

3) how does it react to 3.5mm TS plugs, instead of the stereo TRS ones?

These appear to be available from several dealers on there, but by and large Nobsound seems to be the OEM source for them. Has anyone got some experience with these? If they're "modular-able", these could solve a veritable buttload of problems. Not only would they be a mixer equivalent to things like stackcables and inline mult/hubs, they also overspec the Boredbrain Splix by two extra inputs. And for those who've made the mistake of creating a build with no mixers (punishment time! get the wet noodles!), this lets you put the mixers in without...well, putting mixers in.

IF THESE WORK...let me stress that. Normally, I'd wait until I've heard back from the manufacturer, but I think it's conceivable that someone here on MG might've tinkered with these at some point. If so...well, let's hear about 'em!

EDITED Oct 20th 2020, 22:50

Hi Baltergeist,

Oh that's beautifully done! Odd or not, modular or not, this is nice and so subtle... yes, wow, I am impressed!

And wooowwwwwww that sound almost at the end that burns in half deep there, great :-D

Thanks a lot for sharing this (I didn't feel it was odd at all) and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

He, he, either you got a clocking issue or you "stretched" your jam from 2 into 3 minutes ;-)

Just teasing you, great jam, it's always nice to see you at work, particularly for me because you have quite a few modules of which I only can dream of :-)

Nice and thanks a lot for sharing this, kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Lugia,

Oh that's great news this miRack idea. I always was considering a iPadPro... sitting on the sofa playing around with your virtual rack comes now through

Thanks a lot for pointing this out and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi JimHowell1970,

I am curious about your experiences with the Tesseract Modular Fader Step once you received it.

Ha, ha, yes, I have the same feeling/experience with Metropolis, I tested it at my local dealer, liked it but indeed so far haven't bought it. It's the steep price I guess and not sure for that price if one gets enough (i.e. doubting the price/performance).

Please keep us updated once you receive the Fader Step. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hm! The stuff that turns up on the Internet can be pretty amazing sometimes.

Most everyone knows VCV Rack, right? The Eurorack simulator...loads of modules, and probably one of the best explainers on how to work with modular synthesis for FREE. (just in case, here's the URL: https://vcvrack.com/)

So, today when poking my nose into KVR Audio, I came across THIS: https://mirack.app/ Now, what miRack is is pretty much the same thing (with many of the same modules) as VCV with some improvements...but in miRack's case, the app has been optimized for MacOS (and in Mac DAWs as an AUv3 or their "legacy AU" for DAWs that aren't v3 savvy) and...wait for it...iOS! Since iOS porting is still something VCV's not up for as of the present time, here's everyone's chance to get a proper Eurorack simulator for their iPhone or iPad work environments.

But there's a bit more to this story that might make MacOS users want to check miRack out...for one thing, those who have touchscreens CAN use this to manipulate miRack controls (VCV Rack doesn't have this yet) and, most importantly, it's FAR faster (by half or better!) in process execution. It would appear that miRack's developer has been paying attention to the more annoying shortcomings of VCV (like its need to suck down ALL of your cores to run...and sometimes even that's not enough), and that's a good thing, IMHO. I can't test it here (no Macs anymore), so if any VCV Mac users could snag this from the Apple Store and see what results they get in an A-B test, it'd probably be very welcome!

OK, yes, this would be something that required some work if implemented, but I think it's worthwhile.

There's a bunch of modules that, in addition to other functions, also work as offset sources. But while some of the modules in a certain class (such as attenuators, a common place where this function turns up) are capable of this, others aren't. Sometimes you see this also indicated by "CV modulation", but that's not really accurate, since all an offset gen does is to output A voltage, and not the actual modulation function itself.

So I think we might need to add a tag such as "Offset source" or maybe just "DC Offset" to indicate when/where these sources are present. There are cases where people might want to look for that additional function...and others where the possibility of having a DC offset outputted would be undesired. And it IS a significant function, offsetting pulse waves from an LFO to function as a +5 clock that falls to zero is one example, and I'm sure there's piles of others.

Yuppers...ALWAYS watch your amperage loads! I usually tell new builders that they need to install a power supply that can provide at least 25% more (and preferably 1/3rd more) current than the modules connected to it require. The reason is due to "current inrush"; when you first power on ANY circuit, there's a tiny interval where the components can draw more than the module's "operating" current. If that exceeds the P/S rating by TOO much, P/S go "pop!" And P/S go "pop!" isn't good, because different supplies can do various destructive things when they fail. If you're lucky, nothing happens. If not, you get some horrific spike across a DC bus that wreaks havoc on the whole damned build!

The other reason for overspeccing the power is heat. Heat gets generated by power circuits in direct proportion to current draw if the voltage is fixed. And heat in a synthesizer is NOT a good thing! Not only will it contribute to tuning instability and potentially increase noise factors, heat over long periods gradually causes component breakdown. And this is worst in the P/S module itself, which is also under the heaviest burden due to what it's doing. By going with a P/S that has considerably more current potential than is needed, the P/S can loaf along under a much easier load, and this prolongs its life and, by extension, the entire build itself.

sacguy, you missed one: the AE system (MY primary) = unfiltered Camels. Also spendy, also addictive, but nowhere near as finance-imploding.

EDITED Oct 20th 2020, 21:39

couldn't agree more - I have 4 cases of which 2 are DIY (both 9u/104hp) - rails, threaded inserts, screws and wood - about 110€ each - power is where the cost is - the Doepfer PSUs are good - but often stretch at 9u/84hp due to modern digital modules - I'd pay attention to power draw if I were you!!

Yes, I concur with your approach to disting. I believe also troux suggested that module to try new functions and decide what will need in the future. So that’s a big yes

Re the cases, that’s purely the pleasure of diy (I took that from dad :-) I could have done it 84hp to start with but ok, I can build an 3-tiers rack 84hp per row with less than 100 pounds probably and stick inside a doepfer power supply and save so much..even though the main thing here is the satisfaction of doing it.

Thanks
F

Looking for a Tona in the US! If you have one please let me know and i'll take it off your hands!

hahaha - where I come from they call heroin "smack" - so it still rhymes!!!

I've got a sinfonion too - absolutely love it - currently feeding it with a combination of sequencers - Marbles, BSP and a Pico SEQ (for changing song part - clocked from gate1)

I have just ordered a Tesseract Modular Fader Step - similar to Metropolis/RYK in lots of ways - but comes as DIY kit with smd pre-soldered for €120 - it has repeats like Metropolis from what I have heard - if I don't like it as a melodic sequencer (I can always use it for sequenced modulation) - no quantization afaik - but it's going into sinfonion anyway

I will report back once I have it and it is built (also on the tex mix, which I ordered at the same time)

I've only played with a Metropolis once for a few minutes in a shop, liked it, but always a lower priority than other things

@Lugia,

Definitions for modular:

Eurorack= crack
Buchla= cocaine
Serge= heroin
5U/Moog= pot

just to add to what Lugia said - you could probably get away with a single rack wart (power module) to power both rows - although much easier with a single case

sometimes when trying to do things cheaply you need to spend more upfront to actually make the savings in the long run - it's like buying from a warehouse store (like costco) as opposed to a deli - work out cost per hp for the DIY powered case - and then work out how much a Mantis costs (I checked Mantis at sweetwater the other day at $335/204hp = $1.60/hp ish) and it's a respected case with good power etc etc and it's still portable, unless you are a small child

the easiest way to make a small eurorack system is, like how to make a small fortune, start with a big one!!!

Yes, I have noticed that doepfer generally has more affordable modules. On the other hand they tend to have 1 function per module. I mean, to put together the equivalent of a disting I would probably need 84hp.

-- Startics

more like 8 * 84hp - average size of doepfer module is about 8hp - and there are over 80 algos

what puts people off disting a lot, is if they try to test everything, constantly and have to refer back to the manual everytime to remember what every input and output is doing... if you set it up to use favourites - say a dozen algos, and then concentrate on those and replace the algo with a dedicated module, say you find 70% of the time you are using disting as a delay - buy a delay and replace the delay algo in favourites - it is much easier to work with - the menu is about as deep as a puddle!!

I realize it's a little odd to post primarily non-eurorack pieces here, but I do use a small rack - Mutable Instruments Ears, Busy Circuits S.B.G., DivKid Øchd, Batumi, among others. Anyhow, here's another Ciat-Lonbarde piece made with the Plumbutter 2, Cocoquantus 2, and Tetrax. Copious use of my pedal board as well.

Thanks for your contribution Luigia.
Here I see a few interesting diversions I will certainly explore.
the idea is to expand the setup over time.
Music is my (potentially bank-breaking) hobby, therefore even if it probably wise to think bigger from the beginning as you suggest, I am not in a rush and can consider the direction I want to take while I am on my way.
I will take some time to analyse the info I have so far and see what I come up with (When I was talking about equalising white noise I had in mind something with individual outputs which I could mix with an external mixer....you really hit the nail with that)

Thanks
F

EDITED Oct 21st 2020, 15:33

@GarfieldModular - thanks for listening! :)

EDITED Jan 24th 2021, 17:44

I would use Vector for melodies on a rhythmically quantized grid, whereas Hermod is very useful if you want to play/record more loosely timed melodies or notes.
Vector plays steps whereas Hermod plays midi events, which are not necessarily restricted to certain steps.

As for drums I prefer Vector. Together with a Launchpad it’s super easy to program and change drum hits. And with the upcoming 2.0 firmware adding random elements, muting drum voices, etc. will be super easy.

Cheers @GarfieldModular :)

Exactly right! Love my 0-coast pairing with 0-ctrl is great poor man's Easel. Same here- if I had 50k to burn, would love me a Buchla Skylab and Buchla Rhythm generator along with the essential classics like Buchla 259 and source of uncertainty along with a full on Serge modular system and Moog System 15. But fortunately for us, Eurorack provides less expensive alternatives that come close. Not cheap but equally fun and lots more choices. I've been digging into my Quadrax and Kermit modules as they have tons of modulation power. I can make a full track just with one oscillator now that I can modulate and mix the heck out of the single oscillator in so many ways. Once I get a sequential switch, matrix mixer and clock then watch out, even more chaos. Verbos makes nice stuff as well from what I hear.

Had fun modulating cursus today with Quadrax such a deep and powerful function module on par with Maths:

Using this many modules would require an Arturia Rackbrute (Most of the flying cable power supplies only do 10)
-the rack brute is 88hp (83hp after power)

IIRC the newest Great Destroyer is 6hp, so this gives me 2 more hp than what's shown
-I don't believe the price is factored into what is seen. Add an extra $160

Took a whack at this, although I didn't bother with the 1 x 60 idea at all. Too small, really...you COULD probably jam all of that into 60 hp, but this 2 x 60 variation shows where a build like this could go...and it might be something you need to be thinking about right now, because if you have an indication that you might need to go bigger, you should DEFINITELY follow your gut and build THAT.

OK, let's look at this thing. First up, the layout is VERY different. Most of the audio (except the noise/EQ setup, more on that in a bit) is in the top cab. After the P/S (went with 4ms Row 25s here...ample current, plus easy daisychaining from just a single external "brick") you have a NLC input module with full envelope following. This then has a Warps next to it, primed to scramble the hell out of any external audio as needed. A Klavis Dual Waves gives you your two VCOs...albeit these also have some interesting extra features, one of which is internal quantizing (with several scales). Intellijel's new dual wavefolder is after this, offering dual inputs so that you could ALSO use the wavefolder as a wave-mangling 2-channel mixer. If not, then you can just as easily use the Optomix (your LPGs) for a "clean" mix via two LPG inputs and a third fixed-level AUX in. A Happy Nerding 3xVCA gives you breakout-able VCAs and/or mixing for your audio, then this outputs to the Purrverb digital spring, since spring reverb was a big part of the Buchla sound, especially in the 100 series. And since this can go mono-to-stereo, I put a Happy Nerding Isolator in as your stereo output level control, plus it offers transformer isolation, which can be a major asset if/when gigging...plus you can push the transformers a bit for a little more warmth via a bit of saturation.

Bottom row: after the other Row 25, you'll find an Expert Sleepers FH-2. Not only is this a user-configurable MIDI over USB interface, it can ALSO function in USB host mode, meaning that you can grab this, a USB-MIDI controller like a Keystep, and you've got your "go kit" since you can jack the Keystep (or any other USB controller) directly into the modular. Then, Maths. Of course. An After Later DVCA (1/2 of a Veils, basically) gives you curve-adjustable VCAs for either audio OR CV/mod level control. Then a dual ADSR for "normal" envelopes. After this is your "noise voice", which starts with Doepfer's A-118-2, and this also provides a random voltage source, an extra clock source, track and hold, or sample and hold...all of which will definitely be of use for the entire rig. The noise can feed on to the EMW Fixed Filter bank...which not only gives you graphic EQ-type timbral control, it ALSO has individual outputs for each band! And you can feed that to either the 3xVCA or the Optomix.

This is a much better look at where your build should be heading, according to some indications you gave about the 2-row upgrade. I simply opted to do that in THIS build, which hopefully gives you a much clearer idea of how to proceed so that the jump from one to two rows isn't such a hassle. Hope this helps!

Yes, I have noticed that doepfer generally has more affordable modules. On the other hand they tend to have 1 function per module. I mean, to put together the equivalent of a disting I would probably need 84hp.
They sound great for what I have heard, though.
The envelope follower is interesting, I think I will leave it aside at the moment, depending on how far I go with the idea of integrating other sounds/instruments in my setup.
At this stage I have only built the case out of a plywood sheet and a synthracks frame And today I purchased the power supply...soooo....1 module a month...I can’t wait for the next one. Hopefully with this approach I will have time to explore each module and get a better understanding of what it does before adding the next one

Yeah...when I saw the first take on combining the two 0s, my eyes got big as saucers. OK, there's the Sound Easel...but it's heinously expensive. And then, there's Tony's take on it, which comes in at roughly a grand and which can tear up in about the same way.

Buchla's nice...but I ain't got a Buchla bank account. An O-Easel is very much in mind here for 2021.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Oh wow! That's beautifully done, keeping the tension there, very subtle here and there an extra sound but keeping it nice and slowly, perfectly under control by not letting it getting out of hand.

This could just run away for me from a good A or excellent B class movie, nice work here! Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Mowse,

Now let us be honest here! Who needs Jean-Michel Jarre, Vangelis, Klaus Schulze and the whole lot if we got you?! :-D

I just can't wait for the virus to disappear and that open air concerts are allowed again. Break that record of J.M. Jarre with the most visitors at a live concert, you can do that! :-D

Great stuff again, I start recognising not only that typical Moog sound you are using here but your own style as well, the combination of these two is very likeable. Keep the good stuff coming!

Thank you very much for sharing this and I look forward in seeing your first concert! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Mikeleebirds,

Thanks a lot for the extensive provided information!

Looks to me like Vector (already mentioned by Jingo) is a (very) good sequencer, if an arpeggiator will be added then that's even better.

Is it a good combination to use the Vector more for the "melody" line and let the Hermod more focussing on the percussion and drum?

Thanks a lot and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Ivolvanov,

Yeah, another exciting track from you, great! :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

The main things come from the Make Noise STO, then some of it through a resonant filter then Happy Nerding HNVCF, then onto clouds for some Granular action. Some sample stuff from the Disting Mk4, filtering some swept noise from the MI Kinks via the ADDAC105 then some minimal percussion fro the ADDAC103, light hats from the Roland TR09.

I've been using a Doepfer A-119 input with envelope follower. It's great and very inexpensive.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-119

Input and output are interesting in a tiny rack like this. For output, I chose to lean on using one of the Maths attenuators as your output (you'd need a 3.5mm to 1/8" cable, I think this would work from prior comments by @lugia) or would suggest an external mixer. For input, I think you'd want to sneak in a dedicated module, for example the Mutable Instruments Ears. I don't process external sources though, so I'm not an expert on that one.

Glad this has been helpful, others may chime in too but either way keep us updated on your journey!

All very interesting! You are right, maths and disting are like Swiss Army knives and are probably worthy every penny spent to buy these.
I am probably in love with the complex modulations you can do with maths.
I am also wondering what happens if I feed the envelope follower with some environmental percussive noise lol..would I need some sort of signal booster for that, or the attenuverter in maths is enough?
External audio signal is low compared with oscillators, isn’t it?
I will definitely keep an eye on those 2 modules.
They seem pricy, but they are probably relatively cheap, compared with what I would spend to buy single modules for just their main functions...

Once again thanks, speaking with you is super useful!

F

No surprise that you grok'ed it, you seem to have a solid foundation!

In this setup, you can use both Maths and the Disting as FM modulators, each can do both audio rate oscillation and LFOs. For random, you'd want to use the Disting here as it has a couple random algorithms.

One final note, you also get a Precision Adder in Links, so thankfully you can use the Disting for other things.

See below for an overview of Maths, and another for Disting though they've added more algorithms since this one was made:

EDITED Oct 19th 2020, 17:16

Got into a fun little patch and jam while hanging out with others after SynthBooth 2020.

Thanks for replying.
There are tons of alternatives out there, sometimes you don’t know these exist (that’s why forums are great I suppose)
So, surprisingly I understand a bit of what you did.
I see the structure complex vco, lpg,wavefolder, mixer, dsp.
I was looking at disting as it seems very useful to have a precision adder when playing with FM (it does also things I don’t quite get, but that’s the pleasure of exploring). So I am happy to know that I was looking in the right place for that.

Just a couple of questions:
Do I need another vco to modulate the two59 and for FM?
What’s on duty as LFO/random generator Would it be the maths?

Thanks again
F
EDIT: the multiplier was meant to be used to send the clock to multiple modules, not sue now I need it(maybe it is still useful to have one)?

EDITED Oct 19th 2020, 16:48

Thank you! Great module!