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Check out Bloom as a sequencer. It's a love it or hate it module, but can work really well for unorthodox acidy bassline sequencing.

I've updated the rack to have just one voice; added in some effects, slew and an output module. Let me know your thoughts!

Thanks for listening @GarfieldModular!

Hi Steve,

He, he, quite funny actually and pretty creative too! It's indeed not entirely my cup of tea however I appreciate the efforts you put in here and it's still fun to listen at.

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Indeed, very remarkable!

I didn't find any lion no input mixing videos - but I did watch a tutorial on no input mixing by Sarah Belle Reid... so not all lost

lion certainly looks like a fantastic module - I really like the patch programmability aspect of it - maybe I'll pick one up sometime in the future if I see a used one for a decent price

I've been working on a noise EP for a bit inspired by another Fire is Free equinox fest, check it out below:

https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/album/l-i-t

I'm doing my best Wolf Eyes impression here, feedback loops and wavefolding abound, and in an example of how rad modular is I'm using the same rack I've been using to make all my acid tunes 😮😮😮

Anyway, this'll definitely not be everybody's cup of tea but I'm kind of loving it, hope you all can rock out too 🤘🤘🤘

well I went and watched the divkid video and then his chat with Jason from Instruo

interesting module - not for me - as I said I'd loose the loop cables or have them in a pencil case where I forget I have them - I have some plankton ninja stars and this is what happened to them, because I could never find them!

I didn't see no-input mixing as an example in the video, so I'm off to youtube to search...

I think if this was something that I was going to try I'd try with a simpler matrix mixer to start with - but then I already have a couple!

hmm they may be more psycho acoustic than acoustic!

glad to hear you are safely moved and away from gunfire!

the picture above does not match the link.... so which is it? I'm guessing the link as it's more mi

vaguely similar to what I started out with - I was mostly mutable and maths forced me out of my too small starter case! - but that was before the release of stages, plaits and marbles - iirc my first modules were veils, clouds, tides, peaks, rings and a rebel technology mix02 and some moogerfoogers and the cp251 (which I already had) and then I added a 2hp tm and tune

so why Turing Machine and not Marbles? - as you have multiple voices in both versions Marbles would seem more useful as it is basically 3 quantized turing machines in one module - otherwise you are stuck with the single interval - you could use stages as a sequencer and links can be used as a precision adder iirc - but you'd still need to quantize stages - alt firmware may have this feature, idk - or you could use 1/2 the disting - how were you planning on quantizing the turing machine?

I'm not convinced about the usage of things like teletype - personally I'd rather program a modular with knobs and patch cables, than by writing code and I think they are something that seems like a great idea at the time and then would not get used - pushing this out would also make space for marbles, another cascading vca or mixer (possibly shades or happy nerding - particularly for mixing modulation) and going for an original plaits instead of a clone - everything else mutable is mutable.. so this looks out of place to me! you might also be able to squeeze in an fx aid xl - which will cover your delay and a lot more - try to go xl if you can fit it in = not only is it more ergonomic, but you get a lot more modulation inputs - so much more useful!

I'd hold back on the bastl outs - if you are in the us or japan you will probably want balanced outs, if you are elsewhere the outputs from the xpan will probably work fine - if you need headphones then alm make a reasonably priced headphone module that is 2hp!

as farkas said - @troux is likely to have some good advice...

I'm no expert on acid but I think you would benefit from a slew for portamento which is one of the main characteristics of acid (the slowed rise and drops to the notes) as far as I am aware

general issues that I can see though are:

the sequencer is single channel and you do not have a buffered mult to accurately make a copy of the v/oct signal to both the bassline and the pico voice - this would also benefit from a sample and hold or a second sequencer (and a precision adder - to accurately add the 2 v/oct signals together) - so you can derive a second sequence from the single channel - otherwise you will only be able to play an interval - which would be dependent on how you tune the voice modules

the sequencer has a quantizer built in so the 2hp tune module is redundant - redundancy is often good in modular - nay desirable, but not in this case at your stage of the journey

you may have confused the tune with a tuner, it's not (see above) - get a pedal and the appropriate cable or use your phone - I use a korg pitch black I had lieing around

both the bassline and the pico voice are voices as opposed to vcos - this implies that they have filters and vcas built in (the bassline definitely does - I have the DIY version) so the filter is kind of redundant and probably not in an overly desirable way either

you don't have any envelope generators - whilst you could use the gate from the sequencer to trigger both the voices (the passive mult will work perfectly for this) it is an on off switch - sending this first to an envelope generator is a good idea - even better sending it to 2 different envelope generators - with one channel going to a clock divider or some other method of altering it (a gate delay for example) would massively help in terms of making 2 melodic parts, one for each voice

no modulation source - you really want one of these - at least an lfo of some sort preferably 2, one that can sync to the clock and one that can run free at the same time - consider Maths - for the simple reason that it is a great learning module and incredibly versatile - see the illustrated manual for further details

what's the use case for the input module?

you don't have a mixer - most people would want to mix the 2 mono voices (and potentially your external sound source) before sending to the output module - if you desperately want stereo get a mixer that will pan mono signals to stereo - if your use case for the output module is headphones then get a mixer with headphone outs too - I started with (and still have a rebel technology mix02 which does both these things)

you may not need the output module - where are you geographically? US and japan apparently often need output modules because the power is unbalanced - in which case a balanced output is probably a better idea - otherwise they are often just a 'nice to have' module

small modules such as the mult and the pico modules are very awkward to deal with as they are so small (you have seen a module in real life haven't you?? some people are shocked by the size, even after watching weeks of video) you will want to space them out between bigger modules

it might be an idea to have a read through of these - the sticky threads in the eurorack sub-forum of muffwiggler, sound on sound magazine synth secrets series (available as a pdf online I believe) and there's a couple of older articles on starting modular synthesis that are good (if a bit dated), the muffwigglers book of bad ideas, the maths illustrated manual and read a load of other newbie threads - even if you think they are not relevant to you, because of genre - a lot of the advice will be generic

even if right now all you want to do is make a squelchy acid bassline - do the background research, it will serve you in good stead for the future - there's a reason it's often called eurocrack!

@troux will probably have some good advice for you here. I've tossed around the idea of adding the Erica Bassline to my rack. It sounds really good. As it is though, I already have the inexpensive Behringer TD3 (16 step sequencer) and haven't been able to justify the cost of the Bassline just yet.
Have fun and good luck.

Not hugely original (a lot of MI, haha) but thought I’d see if there were any big misses here. I’m attempting to put together a medium sized rack (paired with a minibrute) that allows for some sample manipulation with accompaniment. This size of rack is tricky if you’re trying to make it self contained - can’t be exhaustive but want some flexibility. Some targeted questions:

• Didn’t add any additional sample tools beyond the Beads (and Disting i guess). Seeing a lot of Beads+Morphogene on YouTube, not sure if that’s a better idea.

• No dedicated delay module, more valuable to add than something else?

• Went heavy on modulation and sequencing, too many options there?

I've been on the fence for buying a desktop acid machine but I want to consider my options for what I can throw together in a rack first. This is my first time putting a rack together so please be easy on me, any advice is much appreciated. I'm just looking to make some deep growling acid. I've considered other sequencers but I really enjoy stepping out of typical 8 step acid sequences.

(UPDATED RACK)

EDITED Mar 18th 2021, 03:49

Hi CBD1000

thanks for reaching out!!

top row - kind of ok - too many sound sources in my opinion = BUT it is a percussion rack! so not surprising really

bottom row - it's all sequencer and mixer

overall - not that balanced - I would want more modulation and utilities (but then I almost always do) and from the looks of it you realise this yourself, already!

so 2 possible solutions:

1. add another row for modulation and utilities

2. remove stuff and replace with smaller modules

so more space in the top row - dump the tangle quartet and the ledRover - replace with veils - 20dB+ of gain introduces quite a lot of grit! and you get 4 channels of it and they are vcas!!

I'm not going to comment on the drum modules - voices/vcos are a very personal choice - but they are big and there are other modules that will do similar things in less space (but they may not be as ergonomic!!)

as for the sequencer and the mixer:
work out what functions you absolutely must have for drum programming - could they be met with the pams and clever use of logic modules and other utilities? do you need recall (Pams even has that!!) - have you also looked at other similar modules - tiptop and robaux swt16+ spring to mind! robaux may be diy only, idk - but if you want it and you can't solder and don't want to learn there are many, many builders out there who will make it for you

regarding the wmd pm - I very very nearly bought one of these... but after months of thinking about it ended up getting a Tesseract Modular Tex-Mix system because

it has most of the functionality that I wanted
what functionality it doesn't have is easily patchable (auto-panning and cv over aux) with other modules*
it's very inexpensive - I diy'ed mine - but they are not much more built (the diy is really the panel furniture and headers - smd pre-soldered)
expandable - want more channels add another module with either 4 mono or 4 stereo channels - want direct outs? they are post-fader! want mutes - they are built in as is a cue mix

*this is the key note here - it's modular - learn how to patch basic functions (utilities) to do other things - you may not need 2 channels of auto-panning more than 20% of the time but you will probably need more vcas, modulation, inverters, etc etc the rest of the time - if you have a comparator and a vca you have a compressor (if you know how to patch it) etc etc etc

Yeah that is great idea Garfield! More eggs and use the egg cartons and foam for cheap solution.
Love the Mackie mixer will let me daisy chain my gear together and free up slots for jam buddies to contribute.

I need to sample some gunshots from the local gun range in the future to add the hardcore industrial ambience now that my new studio is quieter hehe.

Want to know what's better than Clouds? More clouds.

ok my thoughts on this so far:

too many sound sources and sound modifiers (feature modules) for such a small case - looks more like VSTs in a DAW than a balanced modular synth!

almost no support modules (utilities) that open up the possibilities of modulation

for me a balanced case would be at least 50% modulation and utilities (mostly utilities)

utilities are the inexpensive dull polish that make the expensive shiny modules actually shine and stops them tarnishing so quickly

work out which modules you really want - get some advice on what utility modules would work best to complement them and get the most out of them for what you want to achieve - and then find the right case - expect plans to change over time as you learn more about modular and how you patch it and what works for you!

don't rush out and buy all the modules at once - as I said above - start with a few modules and grow slowly

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
About the film used for the video: I found it on archive.org and I was both amazed and disturbed by the images. Back in the ‘50s knife throwing was a widely accepted attraction and this woman, Louella Gallegher (not my mother :) ) was one of the better known knife throwers. Using your children at the throwing board was kind of normal back then. The kids were raised with knives flying and hitting the board around them. Imagine this happening today. Totally horrendous. I thought this patch was as disturbing and unrestful as the knife throwing mother. And the nuns overlooking the whole thing among the teenagers, kind of out of this world and still, so much a part of it.

Added my first rack idea:

Basic thoughts on it:
– Already own the case, Hi-HatD, Clap, SY-05, Pam, a Novation Peak and an Erica Bassline DB01
– Create drums with Maths, BlackVCO, Quartet, + add some punch by LedRover
– Record or enrich with own samples using Sample Drum
– I will do muting/unmuting on the tracks through the sequencer for now
– EQ will be done in the DAW. Alternative on my external mixer replacing the ES-8 with an Erica Link.
– The overseer works as a kind of DJ mixer for transitions, might be replaced with FX when mixing externally
– I want to have a Lapsus OS to manually control to open, close CV Aux (FX Aid) of the WMD Mixer which has very tiny knobs.

Do you have better ideas to replace the Drum Sequencer as it uses a lot of space?
Is anything missing? Should I ditch another voice and add more utilities?
I tried to replace the WMD Mixer but it is very hard to build finding an alternative for AUX chain with CV control on it.

EDITED Mar 17th 2021, 12:14

put the modules in a public rack and post the url in this thread! then we can see them!!!

all those modules will fit in a case - but you'll probably need 9-12u - these are still portable, if not so compact - I'm pro finding the modules you want, adding the modules you need to support them and then finding the right case - not buying a tiny case because it looks good (and you can fit it in your handbag) and then trying to cram (miniaturized) modules into it - but I do believe a lot of people are into that these days

However I would start smaller - 6u/104hp is a good starter size, not too big, not too small - Mantis is a good example - decent power and reasonably priced - difficult to find right now, but I believe re-stock is imminent

pick one sound source, one sound modifier, one modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen and go for it - add 1 or 2 more modules once you know these modules inside and out - maybe a month or 2 - and then repeat

The list of modules though is made up completely of what I would call feature modules - shiny expensive things - and no support modules (utilities) - these are usually overlooked by newbies - so don't worry you are not alone

utilities are the dull inexpensive polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine and prevents them from tarnishing!

in my experience you can do a lot more with fewer sound sources and modifiers and more modulation and utilities, than you can with a load of sound sources and sound modifiers and less modulation and utilities

I think about 50% of a modular case should be devoted to modulation and utilities - mostly utilities!

a good starter set of utilities is for example - mutable links, kinks, shades and veils - or other modules that cover all or most of the functionality of these modules (wmd/ssf toolbox goes a long way for example)

-- JimHowell1970

Public modular is above :)

So this is the starting place for the rack:

Thoughts so far?

2. If I stayed with a smaller case, could a 4U 104HP Intellijel Palette be a good choice? It seems to have a lot of utility built into it (sums, mults, MIDI, 1/4" outputs), and also has the 1U row for more. This seems like it would leave me enough open space for expansion in the 3U row?

For MIDI and OUTPUT these are expansion jacks, you still need to buy the 1U module.

EDITED Mar 17th 2021, 10:35

put the modules in a public rack and post the url in this thread! then we can see them!!!

all those modules will fit in a case - but you'll probably need 9-12u - these are still portable, if not so compact - I'm pro finding the modules you want, adding the modules you need to support them and then finding the right case - not buying a tiny case because it looks good (and you can fit it in your handbag) and then trying to cram (miniaturized) modules into it - but I do believe a lot of people are into that these days

However I would start smaller - 6u/104hp is a good starter size, not too big, not too small - Mantis is a good example - decent power and reasonably priced - difficult to find right now, but I believe re-stock is imminent

pick one sound source, one sound modifier, one modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen and go for it - add 1 or 2 more modules once you know these modules inside and out - maybe a month or 2 - and then repeat

The list of modules though is made up completely of what I would call feature modules - shiny expensive things - and no support modules (utilities) - these are usually overlooked by newbies - so don't worry you are not alone

utilities are the dull inexpensive polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine and prevents them from tarnishing!

in my experience you can do a lot more with fewer sound sources and modifiers and more modulation and utilities, than you can with a load of sound sources and sound modifiers and less modulation and utilities

I think about 50% of a modular case should be devoted to modulation and utilities - mostly utilities!

a good starter set of utilities is for example - mutable links, kinks, shades and veils - or other modules that cover all or most of the functionality of these modules (wmd/ssf toolbox goes a long way for example)

Hey guys,

I have created a playlist of only two videos that have inspired me that I will link here:

I am a noobie but I would like the case to be portable and compact for live shows and be able to connect a korg minilogue synthesizer for a sound source or midi controller for setting VCOs.

Modules that interest me:
- XAOC Devices SEWASTOPOL II
- XAOC Devices - Batumi
- Make Noise Morphagene
- Qu-Bit Electronix Chord v2
- 4ms Spectral Multiband Resonator
- 4ms Ensemble Oscillator
- Pamela's Workout
- Mannequins MANGROVE
- Mannequins Three Sisters
- Instruō's Lúbadh
- Instruō's Arbhar
- Pachinko
- Vector Space Spatial Voltage Processor
- TRIPLE SLOTH
- Hermod
- Rample

Obviously, not all these modules will fit in a case, but I wanted to provide some ideas.

Lmk if you have any questions and thank you for the help :)

EDITED Mar 17th 2021, 05:07

Very good!

EDITED Mar 17th 2021, 10:27

Hi Gabor,

As always a great video / sound combination, though this time pretty scary this "Knifemother", pfew! Your wife, your daughter? ;-)

Keep up the good work, thanks a lot for sharing and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Oh that's a nice mixer from Mackie, I overlooked that ProFX16v3, I would prefer to have that one over my Behringer Xenyx X2442 USB. Anyway, now I am looking into a digital mixer.

Well instead of buying all that sound proofing stuff, why not eat the next few months a few more eggies and use those left over egg crates to glue them against the wall? ;-)

Ha, ha, yeah I heard in your video that the JBLs can be pretty loud! Kind regards, Garfield.

some thoughts:

don't skimp on case or power, especially if you find modules to be expensive - the case protects them and the power gives them life!

1 it's extremely well priced for a 6u/8xhp case to be honest - personally I prefer the find the modules you want and the modules that you need to support them and then find the case to fit them in approach rather than buy a random tiny case and try to cram functionality in by using micro versions of modules etc

the psu looks to be a standard meanwell power supply - great if you are only using low powered modules - but not so good if you want to use something high powered - the fact that the builder states the number of power headers, but no the available power may or may not be a cause for concern - I would at least ask before buying

2 I was looking at cases on musicstore the other day - the intellijel palletes are very expensive - iirc the 62hp is almost the same price as a tiptop mantis... the 104 is 90€ more - and it reduces your choice of other modules - want midi - get the intellijel midi interface because it works with the case, want a mixer - get an intellijel one etc etc etc - now there's nothing wrong with these modules - but it does reduce your choice - and as modular is to some extent about having unlimited freedom of choice - it seems counter-intuitive to limit yourself in this way

if you substitute 1 hp 3 u for 3hp of 1 u (which is probably about right in terms of functionality) you can roughly work out how a 1u row compares to a 3u row in terms of what you can put in it - I mostly build my own cases (this is actually a decent option if you are on a budget and can use a saw, a drill and a screwdriver) and have never contemplated a 1u row - the hardware costs the same as a 3u row - but only get 1/3rd at best the functionality in it - and there are almost no modules in 1u that are not available somehow in 3u

personally I prefer the mantis over either of these cases - but that may just be me, partly because the mantis power supply is clean enough for video (less ripple up to much higher frequencies) whereas by all reports the intellijel supplies are not so quiet - you would have to wait a bit though as they are out of stock everywhere - deliveries appear to be next month, but... - and again it does not have any built in utility - which I personally see as a good thing!

you have to weigh up the price of the included utilities - check you don't have to add 1u modules to use them (and if you do midi and outputs - I'm looking at you, here - decide if you actually need them!!) midi yes if you want to use midi, but outs really depends on where you are as to do you need to have this module - in europe probably not, in US almost definitely, other countries may vary

3 not many people can afford to go out and fill a case with modules on day 1 - and it's not often recommended either - whilst most modules are relatively simple to understand, lots of them all at once is not - and those that do need a bit more time generally fail to get it when purchased in huge batches - so starting with a few modules and learning them in depth before expanding is a great idea

some stackcables might be a good idea - or a few headphone splitter type passive multiples

the often recommended starting set of:

a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation, a way to play and a way to listen are mostly covered with that combination of modules

modulation is a bit on the light side - but will be fine to start - both the other modules have atttenuators on most if not all their modulation inputs and plaits has an on board lfo

how to play = outs of beads into audio interface via 1/4"->1/8" cables

if it clips buy some cheap passive attenuators - 2hp Trim for example - and try to reduce the level that way - if that still clips then you may need an output module - attenuators are always useful to have anyway

veils is a good choice of vca - quad cascading etc etc

if it was me I would next want a better modulation source (I like Maths as a first modulation source*) and some basic utilities next (links, kinks, shades or similar functionality in different modules - wmd/ssf toolbox for example goes a long way to covering a lot of basic utilities) and then possibly a stereo mixer - before adding any more sound sources or modifiers

• see the illustrated manual for more information - 32 self-patching ideas - a brilliant primer for modular synthesis in general

Ahhh!!

Yes.. I'll try and get a bigger case! That's a good idea.
I'll check out some of those modules! Thanks for the recommendations.
I'm also looking at the lubadh tape looper which could create very interesting tape loops in a live setting.

Great stuff here @aphew_goodman, especially around the two minute mark, sweet synth tones there.

Hey all, I have a mother 32 and subharmonicon and want to expand with a fully modular system. I currently record into a Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 audio interface and record into Logic Pro X. I really like the idea of generative ambient with random triggers, audio manipulation, etc. so my first system will eventually include 4 main modules: Plaits, Arbhar, Marbles, and Beads. I also occasionally do video game covers, so it would be cool to send MIDI from Logic Pro into Plaits like I do with my Moog setup. Here's the case I've come up with so far:

It's 104HP single row, so I know I'll need to leave room for utilities, VCAs (I threw Veils in there for now), MIDI I/O, etc. I have some questions though:

1. Everyone says get the biggest case you can afford. Although I like the idea of a low profile 1 row case, it looks like I'm quickly going to fill it up once I add some utility modules to it, and thus probably won't have room to expand. Should I just go bigger, or could I make the 104HP single row work? I did see a 6U, 88HP x2 row case I liked on Etsy, although it only has power and no extra utility: (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/513149542/)

2. If I stayed with a smaller case, could a 4U 104HP Intellijel Palette be a good choice? It seems to have a lot of utility built into it (sums, mults, MIDI, 1/4" outputs), and also has the 1U row for more. This seems like it would leave me enough open space for expansion in the 3U row?

3. I can't afford to buy everything at once, so I'm wondering what modules would be good to get me started? I was thinking maybe Plaits, Marbles, and Beads (Arbhar will likely come later as it is so damn expensive). Would I need any utility to go along with these choices? I've been told that for this setup I might want to add attenuators, stereo mixers or filters? Or maybe an output module if my case doesn't have outputs?

That's about it I guess.... I have a really good idea of what I want to do sound-wise, just sort of stuck on how to actually "start" with something usable. Any advice or feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

EDITED Mar 16th 2021, 20:46

Just Friends pushing lows and kicks with bell-ish sounds from Ts-L.

I think I have to go and watch a video on the Lion to check it out further...

I hope instruo sell replacement cables for the pin matrix - if I bought one I'm sure I'd loose them!

@Lugia Just curious what your total Amperage is that you're drawing off your circuits? How many dedicated circuits do you have in your home for the studio gear? Any tweaks to the electric worth mentioning?

@Lugia,

Thanks for the tips on the studio monitors. I will get some as I plan to use a smaller enclosed room as my mixdown studio and recording wise. I'd bounce to Vegas now to scoop up those deals but with a broken ankle, still limited on getting around. Probably once it is healed would be worth a trip also to race a Lambo on the race track there and shoot some machine guns to record for my downtown ambient vibe that I no longer get at the new much quieter place hehe!

have just watched some videos of the tetrapad and tete combo,defo seems powerfull,could be the way to go for me.
-- Broken-Form

Yes the Pad-Tete Combo is quite powerful. I can't think of any setup where they are not useful in some way.

Looking at your rack, i'm not sure about the ES-9. That might be a bit overpowered, depending on your plans. Maybe you have a certain use-case. If that's not the case, you can save yourself some major bucks and invest in more suitable gear. A good replacement for the Batumi could be the aformentioned Acid rain - Maestro. You loose some hp but you get a lot of hands on control and functionality for it. It comes with a higher price tag though.

-- MillionJT

The reason for the ES-9 is i want to be able to multi track record into Reaper

I think the pin-matrix is a major difference, since every patch point is a combined send and return. Imho there are plenty of ways how you can crosspatch and create Feedback loops with the lion. But to JimHowell's point, that might not be a big enough advantage.

p.s. @gio_coder I guess you meant the 138m not 138n.

Yeah, it's probably the pin matrix. I still need to wrap my head around that. I meant the 138m, sorry for the typo. Thanks again!

have just watched some videos of the tetrapad and tete combo,defo seems powerfull,could be the way to go for me.
-- Broken-Form

Yes the Pad-Tete Combo is quite powerful. I can't think of any setup where they are not useful in some way.

Looking at your rack, i'm not sure about the ES-9. That might be a bit overpowered, depending on your plans. Maybe you have a certain use-case. If that's not the case, you can save yourself some major bucks and invest in more suitable gear. A good replacement for the Batumi could be the aformentioned Acid rain - Maestro. You loose some hp but you get a lot of hands on control and functionality for it. It comes with a higher price tag though.

so could you please explain why the lion is more suitable as a matrix mixer than the doepfer for no input mixing? or is it just differently suitable (ie the lion has this extra function that you would need another module for)

-- JimHowell1970

As for the matrix mixers, I'd be genuinely curious to know exactly what the 138n cannot do that the lion can. The price gap is quite wide, so I'll take some time to decide. DivKid's video is very comprehensive, but I also found a lesser known video of someone playing with a 138n and feedback. (What would happen if I played them with Landscape AllFlesh cables? That would probably be quite something.)
-- gio_coder

I think the pin-matrix is a major difference, since every patch point is a combined send and return. Imho there are plenty of ways how you can crosspatch and create Feedback loops with the lion. But to JimHowell's point, that might not be a big enough advantage.

p.s. @gio_coder I guess you meant the 138m not 138n.

Thanks everyone for the detailed answers.
This system is very interesting! Since I already have a somewhat developed "sampling" section (W/, Nebulae and other stuff) I think it will be very cool to integrate it with something similar to what you describe, Lugia.

As for the matrix mixers, I'd be genuinely curious to know exactly what the 138n cannot do that the lion can. The price gap is quite wide, so I'll take some time to decide. DivKid's video is very comprehensive, but I also found a lesser known video of someone playing with a 138n and feedback. (What would happen if I played them with Landscape AllFlesh cables? That would probably be quite something.)

If you go back to one of the pioneers in this, namely David Lee Myers (ie: Arcane Device), his systems were largely built around matrix mixers tandemmed with delay lines and some other filters and timbral modifiers. This should be VERY easy to implement in Eurorack.

I actually didn't know Arcane Device. Listening now. WOW...

No prob // my pleasure..
with 6u I meant.. get a double or maybe a triple row case instead of the Doepfer LC3. In the end you want more modules and that way you stick to one case. The extra row(s) you can use for the FX, utilities, maybe a control module to make it easier to play around with it a live-setting.
I am getting a lot of nice grittiness out of Monsoon, dirty ms20 clone filter (got one AI for sale, haha), St Modulars Gritzer (weird delay) & DIZ, for beefing up samples I use the Monotropa by Reverse Landfill. Another nice one // still on my wishlist // Per4mer by ModBap. A few essential FX and playabilties for hiphoporientated live case, but a bit expensive.

Well I said goodbye to my DFAM for now. Decided to go for an ES-9 as it seems that gives me a lot more options for modulation, utilities and sounds (iOS but also have a Mac). Hopefully the ES-9 arrives before the end of the week.

My main takeaway after the last jams: The more control and Instruments I got the least happy I am with the result. So I might double down on kicking out the midi input of my eurorack, soon. Good that I went with the dual LPG to shave some off.

Not super happy with the music but I'm building a VJ tool as a companion for my jams which I wanted to showcase here. Pretty basic, but I'm happy to build something audio reactive.

This actually makes quite a bit of sense, and I'm a little surprised that no one's tinkered with no-input feedback paths all that much in Eurorack.

If you go back to one of the pioneers in this, namely David Lee Myers (ie: Arcane Device), his systems were largely built around matrix mixers tandemmed with delay lines and some other filters and timbral modifiers. This should be VERY easy to implement in Eurorack. Add some modulation, a bit of the typical Eurorack voodoo, stick it all in a Behringer cab, and I came up with:

Pretty cool...the left end is the modulation section, uses a Maths, Quadrax and eight free-run LFOs, plus a few mixing/modification modules to make that do a ton of interactive crossmodulation, plus output some VERY wild curves. You get six VCAs (switchable curve) after that for modulation and audio amplitude control as needed. The "beefy" part is in the center, where you'll find an 8 x 4 matrix mixer plus a pair of Pittsburgh Delay Networks, and there's also a touchpad-controlled switch for either audio or modulation. The right end (audio processing/output) contains eight VCFs, a really useful output processor (the T-racks...I have the standalone version, and it's VERY feedback-friendly), plus your submix from the four outputs of the matrix (you'd split these...and for that, I also added four buffered mults to make sure the audio levels stay up when splitting, if necessary). Then there's an Isolator for your isolated stereo outs plus your master output level.

Now that's a nice start-point...or if you like, a finished solution.

EDITED Mar 16th 2021, 04:14

Good stuff and I need to keep an eye on those mixing desks that Lugia talked about. Not sure where to locate one here in northern California.

Will Vegas work? It's a day-trip from there, but according to eBay (your place for ribs!), THIS is only 385 miles (if you use Sacramento as a defining ZIP code) away from you right now!: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Midas-SIENA-480-48-Channel-Sound-Reinforcement-Mixing-Console-w-Road-Case/324442991622?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4b8a4f2c06%3Ag%3A8q0AAOSwlRFdgU8p&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickk5v8gVt3hEWLVg%252F253w6XCYSnf7p04xGQALjyaUeSIsme2KzlygaKmUVikUD6QOHmgSWOeYS6vSr6R96uL9NUeB3KEZOF8c5NOTPGNJmWpe%252F494mJl4oJRqFe721xhrwG%252BGcm5Bn4NSSQhbl235zbHuLWLTrVSjuMONOk9ehvJnjeeGBhRK1htQOqnMKdyXmFn%252Bht5L1X7%252F8PB7n%252BUc44%252Fm70fh23126vgRxLX79U6TvWRu0plQQTQf3zweUtJeiNhqAf3rBFfGorciyvNWu%252B%252F8tSqdG6dgOML7Vl0JRLBKywXnz%252F4Hg1UdRLKkAYr37lsbQ55W9DSPdd11IWoKqom1xhU3DCA9vQsdgeLfbGhtkdZ0VnNx%252B8cZlkPKAaR8XtDJ5PVPEEfFygCTwtMd88aaBAD%252BOHYlocOyYIIskpEUM3cA1zKujlvK%252F%252B0MD%252BsGeeXaHmXwTeynUvVF8FBXk0dxJ6mycflQMN0HxnsezayZf%252BsdKx%252F8RY5qGV7g9w%252BUsyK5SsLvgNOb2GMWmSdXrUtdOJVeuGeVkqPgtngfDRxiFjYGy%252FOhMxrjveog1R3Aiw1EKMSwkORfeQjPcgwQ8fr9ZQ98FbdhCrNwmLIbSmLR%252Bns7StEe81nJJbddMhYLyCH%252BWPc1oIXPlDqA7VaDvLWc08wQY6MMFTTqq%252Bfwx1nws0LlPsPOS6ZDhYGnvaIjFpCLI6ffGYaZejiQextBMBy1BvcrOl6sdIK60M81Wp83L37uOUqZgwlYDOWAPD%252B1WG4aUBCfNd5LCDeBwEzscSfw%253D%253D%7Ccksum%3A3244429916220bd20303638948caa1d4d2b478830e5b%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524&LH_BIN=1&LH_ItemCondition=3000

Man...that's got to be the most hideous URL in Interwebz history! But yeah...if you're willing to do an overnight trip, there's a BUNCH of stuff getting blown out in the Las Vegas area, probably due to the huge tourism downturn. The Siena was another desk that was in the running here until I found that irresistable FIVE.

I did get some new JBL 5 inch monitors with stands and they sound amazing for a low cost affordable studio speaker. Also have two new desks to assemble for my home studio. At least new house has lots of space for studio gear and no more gun shots or homeless all over the bloody place!

OK...well, now you'll need a few guns so that you can fire them off randomly to keep the ambiance right. Those JBLs should make excellent "check" monitors, but you'll want something flatter and with more low end for your mains and/or main mixdown monitors. Ran across the discount on these the other day...they'll be PERFECT: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Gold8--tannoy-gold-8-8-inch-powered-studio-monitor That point-source driver provides a really clear stereo image...plus, I learned on some older/bigger Tannoys decades ago, and the mixes I did on those STILL stand up.

Whew such a relief. At least I can record pure modular now. I do need to get some acoustic treatment egg crate stuff to put on the walls to keep the massive echo effect from ruin my video recordings.
-- sacguy71

Don't go nuts with that stuff. You want SOME room in your room, instead of trying to suck up all the stray audio. One thing that works that you might consider would be hanging some "clouds" at various angles from the ceiling. By using different angles, what bounce the clouds might have will be misdirected, plus the space above them works nicely for absorbing low-mid to midrange sounds, and it kills the bounce from the largest "problem surface" most rooms have. Also, keep an eye out for bass buildup that'll necessitate adding some bass traps in a few 90-degree-angled corners.

Thanks Garfield,

Yeah, it is great having a ton of space and options now with no limits. The mixer in the video is a Mackie ProFX16v3 16-channel Mixer with USB and Effects. It is super awesome and I needed a much larger mixer to accomodate fellow musicians who visit and more gear. The level of control and FX options are superb in this affordable mixer. As my studio grows, larger mixers become essential equipment. The JBL 5 inch monitors are LOUD for a small speaker. I still need to assemble two studio desks to place more gear in the same area. At this point, I may also use another room or two for recording quiet mixing studio room as it is more enclosed and would lend itself perfect for sound treatment. Lots of egg crate sound proofing material to be purchased for sure to avoid the loud echo in the rooms.

Thanks again for your advice! And apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :)

-- oldandintheway

Quite frankly I learned so much from the different answers that it really changed my approach. I hope this helped others as well that are just getting started. As an example, I am not a lot more into my Maths, Kinks, Links, and Shades modules as I've focused a lot more on modulation. The addition of a matrix mixer will probably blow my mind and allow me to just immerse myself in the complexity.

-- marcomixtle

I'm glad I was able to be a helpful nuisance at least ha.

I'm also getting intrigued with the prospect of a matrix mixer. I'm currently experimenting with using the Intellijel Tête-Tetrapad combo in voltages mode as an automated scene manager, so to speak, where I periodically bring in a new set of 8 CV levels to shift mod amounts, move through wave tables, etc. Combining this with a matrix mixer could be great fun and/or mentally push me over the edge, either of which would be entertaining.

Aye man! thanks for replying!
Initially the concept was to design a rack that could play in tandem with my Sv1b and Op1. Playing a Daw-less hip hop live set.
But after a few days of thinking I'm considering creating a rack with just effects and utilities. Is this what you mean by a 6u? or is that more like a traditional studio rack system?

A eurorack of effects and utilities could definitely could be a lot more powerful with a standalone sampler! Your right!

Thank you for your reply! If you know of anymore #reccomendations please let me know! I need that hip hop lo fi goodies!
much love!

Hi Sacguy71,

Congratulations on your new house and new studio space! That's great, looks like you are ready to rumble ;-)

Which Mackie mixer is that, the 1642 VLZ4 or the 1604 VLZ4? He, he, that sound around 13:00+ is fun!

I look forward in seeing more videos when the studio is ready, you have still to setup the tables? Kind regards, Garfield.