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Hi everyone!

The mockup you see below is as minimal as possible, and excludes dozens of modules I've been drooling over, but I'm really eager start making sounds within my budget of ~$1200.

I'm working on an industrial/synth-rock project, so I want something chaotic but musical. This Erica VCO sates my tube fetish, and the Ultraviolence sounds like exactly what I need for chaos. The dude from Error recommends another gate sequencer for it to reign in the rhythms, which is exactly what I was thinking, so I found that cool-looking, cheap-ish Blue Lantern.

The other modules are just what I determined to be "necessary" for those three to "function" well. I put those words in quotes because they're mostly subjective in modular world, but from what I've read, you're going to have a really hard time getting any satisfaction from a modular that doesn't have at least one VCO, filter, mixer, envelope and VCA. I know this setup doesn't have a mixer or filter. Please tell me what main issues I'd have if I bought all this and set it up right now.

Thanks! Link to rack:

EDITED May 30th 2021, 18:53

My goal is to build the rack suggested by Lugia.
But I have to do it in steps.
1. I remove the buffered multi (4 HP). Now I have 14 HP free space.
2. I add Doveman SHFT (6 HP), Ladik Derivator (4 HP) and Ladik Skipper (4 HP).

3.Patching!
4. ”Shrink” Marbles, Plaits and Veils plus removing modules for making space for the rest of the suggested modules.
What do you think?

EDITED May 30th 2021, 19:54

Hi, for CV recording with Hermod I need a simple manually controllabe CV source.

I have a MI Stages, where it is possible, but i dont like the little slider too much for this purpose and i would like to switch it for a Tides.

Since im quite a noob: Which possibilities do I have to feed the hermod with hand played mod CV? Module recommendations welcome. White and 4hp (max) or 8hp would be nice to fit in. :) cheers.

€ Any other ideas to use something für that purpose? Can the Disting do something like that?

Here's my rack:

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1550211.jpg

EDITED May 30th 2021, 18:23

Maybe one of these?
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-176

Hey thank you Garfield! Your words are so kind that I thought you were sarcastic haha

Could I combine a very compact voice synth like Erica voice pico with a Rings and more or less do the same things as the Elements?

« because, as we all know, empty Eurorack spaces have the ability to summon modules to fill them! Do not anger the wandering Eurorack modules! »
Haha ! Nice philosophy ! Promise, I keep it !

Well, it wasn't that long before "Atom Bomb" when much of that gear was dirt-cheap. It was around that time (1993-ish) that I got my TR-909 that I had for years for a mere $700 from Daddy's Junky Music, and not long before that when I snagged my Jupiter-6 for $750.

Yes, synth shopping used to be fun! You didn't feel like someone was sneaking around behind you, trying to snag one of your kidneys for payment!

I had a long look at this, and came up with a variation on it that seems to do a better job at sound design overall. No percussion modules...sort of...

See, the problem is that when you try and build tons of functions into a small build like this, you wind up shortchanging ALL of those functions as a result. So what I did here is to kick this back to being ONLY the synth. With a few surprises...

Top row: Voicing, obviously. The dual input preamp is at the left end, with a pair of envelope followers below this in the middle row. The single VCO was replaced by Void's Gravitational Waves, which gives you a complex oscillator plus a ring modulator. Then, to process the Gravitational Waves, I added an Intellijel uFold after the 4-in 2hp mixer, which will allow for even more complex timbral behavior out of that dual VCO. Then this can be submixed again via the dual inputs on the Ripples VCF, making it possible to combine both the wavefolded AND clean outputs. After that, an Elements clone from Antumbra...which is the "sort of". Since you can use all sorts of physical models as "activators", and since you have mallet models for this, the Atom can then give you two channels of all sorts of bonks and thumps, PLUS it gets its own stereo VCF (Bastl's wild new dual-peak stereo VCF, the Ikarie). But if you want even MORE bonks and thumps, I put in a Make Noise LxD after the Mordax, so you can process its outputs through those lowpass gates.

Middle row: Mostly modulation. First are the envelope followers for your input channels, which allow you to extract dynamics from inputted signals and then output them as modulation CVs. Links, then a Doepfer noise/sample and hold module as both of those things were missing from the original version. I also put in a dual slew limiter in 4 hp (Ladik) which doubles the job of the Joranalogue while halving the space! Plus, you get selectable slewing for CV up-motion, down-motion, or all motion. Then the Clep, Stages, Maths, and Shades...followed by a Happy Nerding 3xVCA to give you some dedicated VCAs for modulation use. After this, a Quadrax/Qx setup gives you four loopable 2-stage (or 3-stage, depending on the control input and mode settings) envelopes.

Bottom row: Control. The little white thing is a Konstant Labs PWRchekr, which lets you have visual feedback on your DC rails. Then the MIDI interface was replaced with Expert Sleepers FH-1, which can work as an interface for the DAW's MIDI, or you can just as easily connect any class-compliant USB MIDI controller to this. Tempi got added because it has some special interconnectivity with the Rene, allowing you to be able to toss much of the previous clock gen/modifiers as a result. After that, I put in a mono-in, stereo-out digital effect specifically set up to work with the AUX setup on the Toppobrillo Stereomix2. That mixer gives you VCA control over levels, autopanning, VCA over AUX sends, mutes per channel, a CUE bus, headphones, and a full AUX setup with a mono main send and stereo return. I then kept the Befaco OUT as it not only has your ganged stereo output control, but it also makes the switch from CUE to output a tad easier if you patch the Stereomix's CUE out to the CUE in on the Befaco.

So...uh...where are all the VCAs for the audio? In the mixer, that's where. Also, everything was rearranged for ergonomics, especially the move of all of the hands-on controller stuff to the bottom row. And where's the power supplies? They're in the rack itself, as I opted to rework this for a powered cab such as the Doepfer LC9 or, better still, one of Case From Lake's portable 3 x 84 cabs. If you can go with an INTERNAL supply, you do three things...

1) You open up 12 hp of space
2) You can get a beefier supply than the uZeus
3) You avoid having power circuitry anywhere near the audio path, which is something you definitely DON'T want! Not to mention, those little uZeuses can get HOT, and internals can be overspecced to the point where they don't do that. The Doepfer LCs have their hefty, toroid-equipped ones, and Case From Lake is pretty much the Burger King of Eurorack cabs: special orders don't upset 'em, so you can have it YOUR way!

Now, one thing that made this rework kind of...ah...dicey was the size. A really good sound design rig needs quite a bit more of that, which again gets back to Case From Lake and their ability to resize from their basic designs. Instead of 84 hp for a width, you could go to 3 x 104...or even 3 x 120 or 3 x 126! They do that. If this build were allowed to sprawl out more, it would then have the space to be taken up to a serious sound-design level. This build is good...but if more space could make it BETTER, well...

@Lugia,

That is way cool! I really like Surgeon's approach. Another electronic artist that really influenced me was Fluke ya know the band with the song Atom Bomb and a lot of songs from the Matrix soundtrack of movies? I don't know what Fluke used but a lot of kick, hi hats and bass lines. Sadly they never used any modular or eurorack that I am aware of. A live show of them:

Now to reproduce these synths in modular is very expensive. Looks like a lot of Roland vintage synths and drum machines.

I tried to replace the X-pan with something useful. I also replaced the 2HP MIDI to the MIDI Thing by Befaco.

Instead of the X-pan I included another envelope generator (FC system-X), and a MI Links utility module for better patch capabilities. For the final stereo output I thout of using the 2HP VCA...

In this setup I also swapped Intellijel Quad VCA to the new Veil

Also keep in mind that the Penrose will quantize ANY incoming voltages, just like any other quantizer. You could just as easily input a fixed offset voltage, controlled by a knob, and you'd be able to "play" the offset, which is useful for setting up drones and being able to then transpose those with the offset knob. But the Penrose's ability to user-define scales means that your knob-twists will ONLY fall into the designated pitched programmed into the quantizer.

This ability to "force tuning" is one thing that makes quantizers...especially scale-definable ones...super-useful for generative work.

Well, we were all sort of dazed and frazzly as this was the "morning" (ie: around noon) after the event, which had run to just before dawn. But I hit breakfast at a Denny's (in Kalamazoo) with him and several other DJs plus one of the promoters. He's a great guy, very low-key, but DEEP into the music. Also, this was a hot minute ago...like, say, 1998-ish. Interesting breakfast conversation that kept drifting from the post-WWII electronic scene to the present day; Surgeon definitely had caught the connection between the two, and the discussion kept getting a tad mind-blowing for some of the DJs (albeit NONE of the Detroit guys...they've known about that for a loooooong time!).

Hey Jingo,

Thank you :-) Yes, the Vector is great, can't live without it any more ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hey Jingo,

You are back ;-) Great to hear from you again and straight away you come with a fun track. At least to me it sounds like you had a lot of fun with the Sarajevo. Sounds indeed (very) good that BBD module!

Much better, to be honest, than my Doepfer A-188-1 BBD Module (1024 stages). I feel that module is a bit difficult to... to what exactly? To understand? Or to get it under control? I don't know exactly what my issue is with it, I mean I can get it work but getting as nice results as you do, I didn't manage that yet. I think I need to dive into that one just one more time to see if I can get similar results :-)

Great track and thank you very much for sharing this with us. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Shanewave,

Wow, your first video, and your first track here as well? What a fantastic starter you got here for us! :-)

Amazing sound, especially in the beginning it sounds almost like a church organ!

Yeah... Marbles is still on my wish list too. I am glad you enjoy it. Thank you very much for sharing this and keep up to good work. I hope to seeing and especially hearing from you soon, kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Mowse,

Oh wow, this is great! Lovely done jam. It's amazing that without a plan or something you are able to come up with something fantastic like this :-)

I have that with Italian cities, I leave the hotel without any plan, any preparation, other than after the stroll "I want to end up in a restaurant". Just wander about and let myself surprise by the atmosphere the city breaths out and by a kind of built-in radar I then find the most fantastic Italian restaurants and enjoy my food :-)

A bit in that way, your modular synth way, you are ending up with a great jam ;-) Thanks a lot for let us join this great experience and kind regards, Garfield.

Qu-bit surface is similar too. WMD crucible is also a kind of physical modelling but for more cymbal-like sounds.

Yes I guess that would be fine, but maybe with the X-pan, I would spare some vcas? I have to start with the upper row, and I only have the new veil in that row (if I follow your suggestion, which I probably will). Additionally I do not have a proper output module on the upper row to begin with, and I planned on using the X-pan as a stereo output module to start with, and use the vcas available to control the volume... I'd rather avoid buying an output module twice.

I'll think about it for a bit... and post a revised plan for the upper row only in the thread

Hey Garfield,

nice jam :). Happy that you like the Vector. Still loving mine, its just the best one can get :)

BR,
jingo

Heyaz :),

hope you are all well. Here an there the GAS hits me and I bought a new module -> XAOC Sarajevo. Its an analog BBD and wow, it really sounds nice. I made a small sequence which repeats its self a thousand or more times and just played the Sarajevo which went into a Desmodus Versio (reverb).

This piece is full of subtle changes and I just pressed record somewhere in between and let it run:

today I made a second iteration...

hf
and stay healthy :)
jingo

EDITED May 30th 2021, 18:08

Thanks,

Plaits is already in my rack.

I might try the others.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Ciao,
Matteo

plaits has 2 rings like modes

plonk and pluck possibly

Hi All,

I really like how Rings sounds. I was wondering if anyone could suggest any other modules which sound smilar to Rings.
(I already have a MI Elements)

Thanks in advance,
Ciao!
Matteo

panning is quite easy to patch with vcas - mult the signal you want to pan to 2 vcas - nult the modulation source you want to use for for panning and send one copy to one of the vcas and invert and offset the other and send it to the other vca

Hey Jim,

Thank a lot for your extensive feedback. I'm sorry I changed the rack from the original post, I was supposed to make an alternative rack. I like to experiment with sound design and music in different genres, but I primarily focus on sound design for film scoring but also melodic electronic music with interesting polyrythms.

I already have the 19" rack, but with no side or back walls, only the front. I made the rack as part of one of my bechtops where I have the Moog Grandmother on top. I also have the µZeus power module and one 19" Eurorack from TipTop audio. I do not have a back panel to connect a larger power connector unit, but I guess I can build that later when I expand the rack. It's a great idea to avoid all these power supplies in the panel itself, but for the first row, and beginning of the rack, this will be the supply for now.

Thanks for the tip on new veils, it looks great, and I love to save some HP :) It has been difficult to plan and imagine what I would need with basically zero experience, besides playing around with the Moog synth. You're right, I dont need the input module either, hehe, and probably I will not use instrument input very often anyways.

Fot the mixing, I was looking first at the Roland 531, but it was so big, and I thought with the Addac, and a simple output, I would have the option of using the addac as a VCA as well as a mixer. If I went for the 531 I would probably not need the X-pan, but I really liked the ways to produce interesting stereo images from the X-pan, and I really want it, I think.

I will look into the fx aid xl, I was never sure about the dual fx anyways.

Cheers!

Thanks!
1. Never tried to use noise with Marbles but now I will :-)
2. This is a new way for me using the quantizer. Very interesting.

EDITED May 29th 2021, 16:53

Hello, Im excited to share my first video with Beads (my first video ever actually), after a few weeks of exploration with it.
Modular synths took a very important place in my life, and I felt like sharing what I do could give ideas to other people, especially people like me who love Marbles.
Thank you for listening!

I agree. Maybe better quarks similar.

The tuning knobs don't have much resistance so a slight touch can knock the oscillator out of tune, but I haven't noticed a slight detune or anything when both are tuned to A. I do make a lot of dissonant music though, so "close enough" is usually fine for me. Haha.
I don't have the Strong Zero VCO Core installed. Mine is still all analog, and I've found that it's a well-built and stable module. As with anything in Euro, YMMV.

it does indeed...

it's also half the size

but is it half as enjoyable to play with?

I've had good luck with the Furthrrr Generator. Tuning is a little fiddly, but not too bad. It's fairly stable once tuned.
-- farkas

Thanks for the reply. When the tuner LEDs on both sides say that they are tuned to A are both oscillators sounding identically tuned or can you hear a slight detune between them? Or is it more of a "close enough" type situation, or is it just fiddly to actually get the lights to indicate that its actually tuned to A.

I've had good luck with the Furthrrr Generator. Tuning is a little fiddly, but not too bad. It's fairly stable once tuned.

compared to elements, atom it costs half

Ok, thanks at all. What is BOM. Jim have u some links to share or a module name to search here? Thanks

edit: ok BOM intend the bill of materials... ok, i was actually referring to full diy kits for the elements. I miss the desire to make the shopping list.

ah good you worked out BOM yourself!

personally I've got a full size elements on my DIY backlog - it's number 11 of 12 in order - making the shopping list is a lot easier than it appears to be and a useful skill to have in synth diy - it can reduce costs considerably in the long run - buy larger quantitites of common components etc

https://pushermanproductions.com/product/full-kit-antumbra-atom-v1-2/

but maybe available elsewhere

yes, I think Atom is too tiny to control. Good idea Quarks, i didn't know it.
unobtainable, however, in Europe...

EDITED May 29th 2021, 09:28

what sort of music do you intend to make?

do you already have the 19" rack?
do you have more than 9u free? whilst you may see this dream rack as 'end game' there's a very good chance it won't be - and you are not planning in room for possible expansion

you don't need 3 uZeus rack warts - just 2 and 1 of the boost power supplies - also saves 4hp
personally I would try to go with a power supply that will power all three rows from a single power supply - there are plenty to choose from - and if possible avoid the rack warts all together - may involve drilling holes in the 19" - I'd drill the holes and use a couple of befaco excalibuses to power this rack myself - this would save 12 hp!

'reasonably' well balanced - things I would try to do though:

get a midi interface with more channels - befaco do a reasonbaly, priced one that has 8 outs in 6hp iic

swap both the intellijel quad vca and veils for new veils - which will save 4hp - remember these are mixers too and that they can be used for cv as well as audio and as input modules - they have +20dB of gain - so you can probably drop the input module

you have quite a few 2hp modules - which can be great, but, they appear to be in places where they might be awkward to use and make using other modules difficult - getting a couple in the first row is probably a good idea - so you can determine if you actually like them before getting more

rene is quite a big module in this size case imo - but it may be the feature module that you want, idk

I'm not sure that you need to have 4 modulation sources - I would rather have fewer and have interesting ways of multing/modifying/mixing them rather than a lot of different ones - I'd grab a kinks (immediately whilst they may still be available) and a matrix mixer, possibly 2 - probably in place of stages and contour 1 - although I do really like stages - so I would probably try to keep this - maths I would definitely keep - download the illustrated supplement and work your way through it a few times - it's a great modular learning resource

I would seriously think out your mixing - it doesn't make a lot of sense to me - especially the 'end of chain' audio mixing xpan and the addac? you could probably find a better solution for that in a single module

I'd also consider replacing the dual fx with a fx aid xl - smaller and more versatile!

The Antumbra Atom looks cool and maybe if I had been very familiar with Elements I would have been happy with it. But I got the Atom first and I admit it was totally opaque to me. Sold it, got an original MI Elements instead. I think I might get along with something the size of Michigan Synth Works Quarks (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/michigan-synth-works-quarks-). The layout makes more sense and the knob size is a little more finger friendly.

Ok, thanks at all. What is BOM. Jim have u some links to share or a module name to search here? Thanks

edit: ok BOM intend the bill of materials... ok, i was actually referring to full diy kits for the elements. I miss the desire to make the shopping list.

what do you think of the Antumbra Atom? I have read that Plonk is also similar to Elements (obviously with its macro differences). So let me explain: I am assembling an auxiliary rack to my main one in which I have inserted effects modules, drums and I would like to insert a second complete synth module to always be controlled with beatstep pro since I have the possibility to manage two synths at the same time. Here the extra rack:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1583445.jpg?1622279223

EDITED May 29th 2021, 09:07

link to actual rack!!!

I don't know about the size etc - that's something that you'd have to work out for yourself - do you like trimmers instead of pots and poor ergonomics?

DIY is definitely possible - but I wouldn't recommend it as a first smd or even first mutable DIY

I would take a look at amazing synth and work out a path to building one and remember you'll also need a discovery board or similar to program it

However, I see that there are some pcba versions (smd pre-soldered) available - I would go for one of these - should be not much more difficult than the prok drum modules you have built already - it's probably just panel furniture and headers that need to be soldered and then calibration

If you consider DIYing it.. do yourself a favor and check the BOM first, a lot of Mutable clones have problems with chip availability

Hi,
I know that exists clones of MI Elements also a little bit compact. Do u know something else about these? Do you say it can be worth it? Also in DIY will not a problem (I'm back from prok modules, nice experience).
Thanks
FB

Thanks so much!

Hehe, I suppose my hands are small enough that hasn't happened, but it can be a bit tricky getting into the denser sections of cables. I like to make a sketch first to keep track of things and then patch it like putting together a puzzle.

My drums are all electronic from a combination of Roland and Alesis kits.

Hello,

How accurate are the tuners of the Endorphin.es Furthrrrr Generator? I noticed in one video I saw that when he tried to match both oscillators exactly by using the tuners they did not seems to exactly match up.

Settled into a nice evening jam session with no plan or expectations. Found my way here.

EDITED May 29th 2021, 05:11

Hi, I'm planning on building a Eurorack in a standard 19" rack. Given there are so many modules, different functions, and use-cases, I feel like I might have missed some critical components. I have a Moog Grandmother I plan on playing together with this, as well as integrating this to Cubase, and control certain triggers and sequences from the DAW. I plan on starting with (buying) row 1 (upper 84 HP), and expand as I get used to things and save up some more money. Therefore, row 1 is the most important to begin with. So, what do you think about the setup?

EDITED May 29th 2021, 00:09

wow @Lugia so you met him before? What is he like as a person? I like that he makes killer beats with a minimal setup as lugging 20U of modular is not easy as I get older. With a good trigger sequencer and some delay/reverb and few percussion modules, I am getting pretty decent techno results. That said, as I dig deeper into eurorack/modular, I am really enjoying creating weird ambient stuff. Last night was a fun adventure tweaking Hertz Donut fed into Angle Grinder and using 4ms DLP for delay and NE Desmodus Versio. After a while just doing the same worn out techno tracks is boring. Weird ambient patches that take on random sounds is more fun with modular for me anyways. If I had to do a live dance performance at a club, I'd just use my Elektron Analog 4 and be done with it or a drum machine.

VERY smart move on the tile rows, too...both Intellijel AND the Pulplogic standards.