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A bigger more melodic jam?! Plus the pressure of doing it live?! I am getting more and more what I want out of my little box. Currently still looking at the fx Aid to get a bit more hands on with the post processing.

Patchnotes:
Teenage Engineering OP-Z midi over USB
USB from machine back to the MIDI Thing.

OP-Z for drums, additional sounds and the arpeggiator
Sine Oscilator is doing all the hard work
Rampage is providing Envelopes and LFO
Thickness from white noise to Zlob VCF ping
Antumbra DVCA is opening and closing the gates ;)
Ping Pong Delay on the Disting MK

Mixing is just done in OBS for the livestream (did a four track recording of this offline, which I'll try to master a little more)

Thank you for listening

EDITED Feb 8th 2021, 09:51

Thanks for the comment

Depends on what the question is? In terms of this I wasn't setting out to replicate the cs-80 or the original timbres rather my question which was "can I, based off the my learnings of a krell patch (random modulation of attack and decay), could I generate interesting human like synth lines?". Co-incidentally this reminded me of the brass sounds created in Blade Runner, so I created this here to keep notes for myself.

If you strip back all the generative parts you are pretty much left with osc->filter->vca->reverb modulated by and envelope, so pretty standard stuff...

CS-80 clone would be awesome, the ARP 2600 clone happened..so keep fingers crossed

The Keystep can easily be powered by an Intellijel PSU. No need to worry.

While I think this is sound advice, I don't think it's necessary to get too religious about it. Sure, in most situations it's better to keep the Moogs and especially the Behringers in their own cases. For me though, the DFAM works much better within the rack than right beside it. Even if I could fit some pretty cool modules into its space. And for the same reason why reorganizing the rack is such an often discussed topic. Having something just out of reach or hidden by a nest of cables makes a difference. And that difference might be worth the €£$/HP. Some day you'll either need a bigger case anyway or exit this madness... the best way to save your money is to not get into modular at all :)

EDITED Feb 8th 2021, 07:38

Lots of fun with this one.

5String -> FX Aid - Bat Verb
BIA - Kick and some percs
Ataraxic, maths, belgrad,FX-Aid, Bat Verb
Lubadh - Overdubs, and FX
Cleb Diaz - modulation
Black Box - Some Perc, pad sample
Typhon - Some bass duties, and FX
U-He Zebra - Pad -> FX-Aid Lo-fi Junky - Bat Verb

EDITED Feb 8th 2021, 06:54

We need a sticky thread for suggestions like this that keep getting repeated to make all our lives easier, experts, folks on the journey, and newbies alike.

Some first thoughts:
1) Don't put a Moog in your rack unless you're traveling or performing live
2) Link to the rack, don't share a screenshot
3) You probably need to add some utilities (or as I like to say "Add a Links and a Kinks" lol)
4) Get a bigger rack than you think you need, with good power
5) In fact, go ahead and buy a Mantis for your starter rig
6) Limit the sexy modules overall, and be HP conscious

I'm sure there's some I'm forgetting, but I think this would be helpful for everyone.

I agree @Lugia, this is great advice.

I keep my semi-modular synths like 0-coast outside case on top and that works fine. Plus can take the synth with me or leave home. I prefer to keep regular modules in my cases and use much larger cases for ginormous modules like 4ms Dual Loop Delay and Rossum Trident those suckers are huge! Anyways good consul as always.

Nice idea! Thank you. Also I just realized I had the Roland 530 in the rack, but I actually have the 531 which has panning CV so I was taking the QPAS stereo outs from LP and HP, and adding some more stereo craziness at the mixer. Adding the Mimeophon's stereo delay to this is going to be very cool.

As of late, I seem to be running across a lot of builds on here where the user has taken a synth and jammed it into a Eurorack cab. And yes, while there are synths you CAN do this with...this isn't as good an idea as you might be led to believe. And I do understand that this is often an issue that's resulted out of convenience, especially for live gigging builds, but even so, it's not the best idea. Here's why...

OK...let's say for the sake of argument that you have a very typical Eurorack cab; for this, I'm going to use a Tiptop Mantis, as they're easily available and also a great starter case with power. And we're going to take a fairly typical Eurorackable patchable such as a Moog Mother 32 as the "culprit" here. Now, that synth comes in its own 60 hp cab, which has power already that's optimized for the Mother 32. So...you CAREFULLY decase and disconnect it from the power, and then REcase it and connect it to the Mantis's power. Provided that something tiny that can cause a major disaster (such as a little wire snip on your workbench finding its way into the M32 or, even worse, the Mantis's power setup) hasn't happened, you now have a remainder of 148 hp to work with. Remember: a 2 x 84 cab only has 168 hp, and they're not the easiest things to do a major build in. If you want drums and sequencers and and and and...well, no. Not gonna happen now. You have this...THING...in there now, taking up loads of space while, at the same time, not really having 60 hp of functional density like you'd get from filling that 60 hp with proper Eurorack modules.

But that's not all...

Let's look at what you've spent here. A Mother 32 is $649 according to Sweetwater's site. And they have the Mantis at $335. So that's just under a grand right there. Now, you take the M32 out, stick it in the Mantis, and nothing's gone wrong...when you power it up, the M32 is all lit up and happy. And you've screwed your budget right then and there...

Huh? OK...let's look at the REAL costs here. A Tiptop Mantis has 208 powered hp, so for each hp: 335 / 208 = 1.61(ish). Therefore, each Mantis hp has an individual cost of $1.61. Now, to house a module in there, you can actually come up with a "cost-per-hp" figure. This is actually useful sometimes to see how your space vs. cost is working out in the build. But when you take the M32 out and put it into the Mantis, you then ALSO have to calculate the cost-per-hp for that, and the results are...well...

60 x 1.61 = 96.6. So, recasing and repowering the Mother 32 in its new cab actually results in having to factor that $96.60 into the aggregate cost of the Mother 32 itself. NOW your Moog costs $745.60...which you didn't pay for it, but it now COSTS that, because that $96.60 is the cost of the casing/powering of the Mother 32 that already HAS power and HAS a case! Plus, you LOSE those 60 hp...which should be used for casing and powering things that DON'T have those things already...to the M32.

Also, this is a bad trade-off, function-wise. So...what makes up a Mother 32? Well...you have a single VCO, single LFO, a multimode VCF, a two-stage EG, a CVable polarizer, an eight-step step sequencer, a clock, and a MIDI-in interface. Using pretty much bog-simple modules for this same functionality, I can jam that...with basic modules...into 54 hp. And I could fit it into that with even more complex modules, too. Or I could certainly fit that into a smaller space...this is just a basic module (mostly Doepfer) example. But the upshot here is that, in less than the M32's space, you can BUILD a vastly-improved complement of modules that can do what it does...and probably BETTER.

I really don't know how many times I've seen posts on MG where someone who's dropped a synth into their Eurorack is complaining about not having the space to do [INSERT NUMEROUS IDEAS HERE]. And the solution, inevitably, is very simple: TAKE THAT SYNTH OUT. Put it back where it belongs! Then, automagically, you HAVE SPACE. There's also no technical rationale for having it in there, either; I do use a modular which requires you to establish a groundplane across all of its cabs and to/from any other devices you use with it. In THAT situation, sure, putting an existing rackable modular in with the rest of it would fix that slightly-annoying technical limitation...but considering that you see this with formats such as Buchla or Serge, how much of a "limitation" is it, really? And with Eurorack, you use two-conductor patchcables...NOT single wires...so whenever you make a patch, you have the "hot" lead AND the ground right there already. No need for grounding follies!

Yes, yes...I know you see "pros" on YouTube who have this sort of configuration in their Eurorack systems. But just because they're on TV doesn't mean they're right; if everything on TV was "right", then we'd all be living in stratospheric condos and have flying cars like The Jetsons, except that any number of sinister forces would be trying to blow up the world on an hourly basis while everyone's traveling to remote locations every day to eat at secret gourmet-level hole-in-the-wall joints. And so on. You get the idea.

So if you can get that idea, it's not really a stretch to understand that people who get these things for free or "accommodation prices" are wanting to stick 'em right where you can see 'em...otherwise, the toy supply might dry up and their pristine set-like studios might actually have to see some REAL WORK to pay the bills! If these people blow up something they got for zip, well, they're out exactly that. If YOU do, though...kiss your ca$h goodbye! And that goes even if you DON'T detonate your new synth by having a tiny metal sliver off of one of your rack screws fall into it unbeknownst to you while recasing it.

But wait...why are these things ON Modulargrid, then? Simple: Modulargrid is a comprehensive reference resource, and if you need to figure out how your patching is going to work with one of these in your studio (but not in the Eurorack cab), that's why they're there. But, yet again...just because you can do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. And recasing your powered and cased synths is just the present-day equivalent to doing things like sawing the keyboard off of a perfectly-good synth so you can use it as a MIDI module. Very dumb, very destructive... and I know for a fact that we've lost an unknowable number of vintage analogs through this earlier iteration of dumbass.

And even if you figure that "I need this for convenience"...well, do you? Couldn't you BUILD the equivalent in 40-50 hp instead? Without the need for an Erica MScale or a trigger/CV converter for a Behringer K-2? C'mon, peepz...it's MODULAR. It's a circuitry SANDBOX. You can build whatever you like, and even wildly improve on it...so why limit your build like this, or incur expenses that are pretty much unnecessary? Think about that the next time you ponder whether your Pro-1 would be better in your A-100 case; I know that MINE is still in the OEM, and that's where it staying!

Try hitting your browser refresh.

Yep, that's closer...and here's something you REALLY want to pair up with the QPAS: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/happy-nerding-dual-xfade That's a stereo CVable crossfader. So, what you'd do with this is to send one QPAS stereo out pair to the "A" inputs, and another to the "B", then take the individual outs on the Dual Xfade and send those on as a stereo pair. By doing this trick, in just 4 hp you've added a cheap module that can modulate between filter response curves! Imagine back-and-forthing between the LP and HP outs...or the BP and notch! Nuts!

Boolean logic works on conditional inputs, and can affect sequencer behavior quite a bit. My suggestion would be to build up a small sidecar skiff with some free-run LFOs (like Doepfer's little quad LFO), some random sourcing such as a Benjolin, Turing Machine (the REAL one...not the 2hp version...or a big Greyscale Permutation, which is a Turing variant) or Euclidean sequencer, a few WINDOW comparators (not the basic ones...window comparators give you a lot of gate output options), and some beefed-up Boolean logic so that all of those various gates and triggers can tangle with each other to generate LOADS of conditional gates to operate things such as CV switches, Mutable's Branches, timing behavior, etc etc. Since this is built around a sequencer in the first place, that's definitely where I would start!

The mother 32 was my first module, and my introduction to modular. I plan on keeping in the this potable for the time being...
-- Olias

...which is where I get off. You list a bunch of things that you want to add to this, but as long as you insist on locking up 60 hp of the 208 you have with something that doesn't belong there, I can't help you. You can't adequately reach what you're proposing by staying with this sort of build...the room for a real generative build simply isn't there.

Good job on overloading the P/S. That's exactly what happens...at first, but then, you stopped before the REAL damage could get going...hopefully. The hot smell might indicate that you've damaged the wallwart, however.

If you have something that has a SPECIFIC case with a SPECIFIC power source for it, use that for that ONLY. I don't think Moog intended for that sort of usage, nor did 4ms. Unless you know what you're doing with current loading, specific voltages, and you have a serious DC supply instead of a wallwart, don't try anything like this again.

And this is why modular isn't always the right answer. Me, if I want this, I just go over and patch the CS-80 into a couple of strips, which is what was done to get those sounds in the first place.

True, not everyone can afford a vintage CS-ANYTHING these days (thanks mainly to synth brokers and other parasites), but give Uli a little time...supposedly, there's one in the Behringer pipeline. Maybe.

Hey thanks, glad you like it. Here's part two of that set.

I like tiles...but I have to admit that Intellijel format tiles are nowhere nearly as diverse as the original Pulplogic format. You could build a rather uncomfortable to use but technically complete modular with those; not so much with Intellijel format stuff.

The big question is what, exactly, are you trying to do here? What about the Grandmother needs expanding, in your opinion? How would you go about doing that? What size build works...and what size works BETTER? You need to be asking those questions, and not whether you've got the magic number of VCAs. Right now, this seems like it's targeted at one or two aspects of the Moog, which begs the questions above.

Oh, that bass or drum sound you have in that track is just lovely (forgot to mention that) ;-)

Hi Mowse,

Oh wow, what a nice treat is this?! Beautifully done, your Moog style sound, lovely to listen at. After sending this message off, I am going to listen at it again.

Thank you very much for ending a weekend so beautifully :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Nice start! Here are my recommendations and suggestions:

• logic module like Intellijel Plog or WMD/SSF Toolbox super useful.
• sequential switch like Doepfer, Erica Synths or other switch to create fun patches

• good complex sequencer My Eloquencer was a game changer for my workflow on modular and I won't build another rack without a good sequencer.

• delay and distortion would be nice:

• percussion:

-- sacguy71

Sacguy, thanks a lot for the suggestions!! Very helpful. Especially the thinking about a good euro rack sequencer. I’ve been trying to hold off on moving away from the Pyramid until I can be more firmly in eurorack, but simpler sequencers like the metropolis really interest me for good riffs, also something like those you suggested look really inspiring too!

Hi Diego Armadona,

How about: money? ;-)

And then perhaps: bit crushers, distortion, fuzz, overdrive and noise modules --> just add some noise to your end results, f**ks it nicely up ;-)

Also heavily recommended are modules from TouellSkouarn, they don't produce anything useful other than heavily distorted sounds ;-)

If you look for a dirty kick sound then consider the Kick_Me module from Snazzy FX, nice dirty kick sound if you switch the switch into clip mode.

Good luck with creating dirty, filthy and not clear audio and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Nice start! Here are my recommendations and suggestions:

• logic module like Intellijel Plog or WMD/SSF Toolbox super useful.
• sequential switch like Doepfer, Erica Synths or other switch to create fun patches

• good complex sequencer like 512 Vector, Eloquencer, Black Sequencer to create cool melodies and quantize them with scales and have ratcheting option as well as create random and reverse sequences. My Eloquencer was a game changer for my workflow on modular and I won't build another rack without a good sequencer.

• delay and distortion would be nice: FX Aid, 4ms dual loop delay, Erica Synths Black Hole DSP, etc.

• percussion: look at getting a nice kick drum, clap, snare, high hats or combo module with multiple drum voices like Queen of Pentacles unless you plan to use an external drum machine. I need my beats unless I am making calm ambient stuff.

Been playing with this rack for a bit now and it’s great. For the time being, I’ve got sound sources all set. And have about right above the bare minimum of sound support (vca, filters). Stereo mixer was a mistake and will be switching that for a quad mono mixer with sends (topobrillo stereomix). The more I play with the Desmodus Versio the more I like it, I think adding a delay (Xaox Sarajewo) would be fun, also thought about something like a Instant LoFi. The Tallin is actually doing a solid job of taking an output from ableton and bringing that into the rack.

As for the CV side in the bottom row, I like PMW but I would rather move towards dedicated modules (replacing that with Batumi and maybe Tempi) and adding something for random (Verbos). Limited space in this setup but in the future I will be adding a Mantis case to then house the audio and expand, and have the 84 wide A100 for drums.

Welcome and thoughts and opinions. Here are some tunes that I’ve put together this weekend mostly from the modular and a Vermona DRM, and a few ableton samplers, all controlled by Squarp Pyramid.

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/n7hAL3aPdifPnjVS7
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/wLCSACqyysxoPwDC9
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/aSHbBUUYZbrDgkC58

Many thanks for the suggestions. Lugia - I pulled the M32 out of the rack (as I mentioned I would do) and that obviously leaves a lot more room. I added Kinks, Wogglebug (which shows very well in the Make Noise demos of QPAS and Mimeophon). Plaits, Polaris, another Quad VCA, ES Disting Mk4, Pamela's New Workout and a Dixie II+.

There's still 32HP. Am I getting closer to ambient, self-generative bliss?

I just received the QPAS and Maths yesterday and holy crap that QPAS sounds incredible - and then when you modulate it - just wow! I do love the sound of the Erica Black VCO 2 and the QPAS makes it even better.

(the forum doesn't seem to update the rack here)

EDITED Feb 7th 2021, 20:52

I wanted to spend some time with the Moog stack... so I did. :-)

I am pretty satisfied with my setup for basic generative ambient patches.
I can easily patch three or four individual voices and have many modulation possibilities.
But I am aware of that my rack is pretty small for more serious generative experiments. But I have no good ideas how to reach a new level.
I will keep my Minibrute 2S and the 6U Rackbrute. I don’t have space for a new large rack but considering a small skiff as a complement.
So now I hope getting some advice what to fill the planned skiff with.
I guess I can afford about ten new modules at an average price around $250.
As I have built my setup almost entierly from advice in this forum I really hope that I can get some more help.

I went in a bit of a different direction and configured an Intellijel 7u 104hp with a rackbrute 3u for sequencing and mixing.

You definitely want some sort of random generator for ambient stuff. I use Marbles in one setup and Pamela New Workout in my 6U case. In my third case, I use random sequencer mode on my ambient stuff with Eloquencer sequencer. Those three do a great job for generative ambient patches for my needs. Check out the Benjolin v2 by after later audio that looks cool as well.

@Olias I like the Turing Machine but it's a bit big for a rack this size. Since the Mother 32 already has a sequencer, I'd actually start with a Kinks and a Links, plus an LFO, either Batumi or Pamela's New Workout.

use both wall warts as specified in the manuals of the moog and power supply or buy a bigger case that has enough power for everything including the moog on the eurorack power rails

maybe, maybe not - other than plaits in built vcas I see none

I would choose a mantis over this case every day - but I'm not a fan of the 1u tiles at all

then you would have space for vcas!

Do I have enough VCAs?

I built a two tier rack using The original Mother 32 case and another 60hp case from Moog. I’m trying to make it so I don’t have two cables to power the entire rack. I originally thought of using a short barrel cable to “daisy chain” the Row Power to the original Mother 32 power input.
There are two issues:
1. The power directly flows through the output on the Row Power and is not controlled by the on/off switch.
2. This might be in my head, but after a very short time of being plugged into the Mother 32 through the Row Power, the Mother seemed to be getting really warm and smelled like it was getting too hot. So I quickly unplugged it for fear that it may be overloaded on power.

Has this happened to anyone else?
What are some solutions?

Part of larger patch some stuff could definitely be simplified down.

Generative Parts:

Disting EX

• DUAL Mode - F6 Quantised Random
• Pentatonic Minor
• output (pitch) A sent to input 2 of buffered mult 2.
• Gate output sent to WMD Switch.

Disting MK4

• H2 - Dual S&H
• Noise fully added to X and Y,
• SLEW set to max to generate smooth random voltage.
• Outputs A and B patched to dual buffered mults input 1.

Pamela's (Clock)

• Main clock set to 120 BPM
• Output 1: 4x Gate - Sent Disting EX - Shift Register - X Input(Trigger)
• Output 5: 4x Gate - Sent to Disting MK4 - Z input(Gate) - Dual S&H
• Output 2: /4 Gate - WMD Sl3KT switch

WMD SL3KT Switch

• SW1 - CV Select from Pam's Output 2
• SW1 - Output A - Stages - Gate in Segment 5
• SW1 - Output B - Nothing (in larger patch this goes to Rings - Strum)
• SW1 - Input - Disting EX - Shift Register Gate output (B)

Buffered Mult 1

• input 1 - S&H Outputs
• all outputs normalised to input 1
• Stages - Attack (Seg 5 -Time/Level )
• Stages - Decay (Seg 6 - Time/Level)

Bufferd Mult 2

• input 1 - S&H Outputs

  • ONA FM, ONA PW

• input 2 - Pitch outputs

  • ONA 1/V

Sound Parts

ONA Oscillator

• 1/V Pitch coming from Disting Shift Register via Buffered Mult
• FM and PW modulated by smooth S&H via Disting MK4 (Buffered Mult)
• Octave set to 2
• Saw wave Output sent to Vult Freak Filter

Vult Freak Filter

• in stereo mode (being used in mono)
• Set to Tangents Low Pass Filter
• Cutoff modulated by Smooth S&H
• input from ONA
• output to VCA

Stages

• AD envelope (Segments 5&6),
• S&H modulating Attack and Decay Times
• Gate from WMD Switch
• Envelop out to VCA

VCA

• input from Vult Freak
• CV in from envlope generated by stages
• Out to mixer channel 1

Mixer

• Send 1 to FX Aid in BigSky Reverb Mode
• Master Outputs to main external mixer
• Channel 1 is fully wet to send 1

EDITED Feb 8th 2021, 08:47

I love the crunchy sound Stages graces audio through with. I want modules that are so far from pristine and clear audio as possible. What should I be looking out for?

Thanks Garfield,

Been needing more space and also the ability to play my setups at louder volumes without having any neighbors downstairs or above me.

This is so effing fantastic. I honestly can't thank you enough for this.

I've spent the past few hours going over what you've done and it is a perfect system for what I was after.

I'm on the fence on a few things (keeping the MUM M8 and Bifold - I haven't really clicked with them and not sure I'd want to keep them long term), but this is extremely helpful in helping me have a cohesive unit with great flow. I may rearrange that row a bit and see how else other modules might fit in.

I'm also going to create a pared-down version with just a single 6U and see where that takes me. Maybe half the 2 voice rows, some drums, modulation, and then finally control. I'm also toying with just getting 2 more 3U rackbrutes and replacing the 62hp palette and 64hp skiff. Then I can use the palette for random modules when I want to be out and about.

I also opted in for a unicorn account. I didn't want to lose all of the work you did!

A link to my rack

Thank you for the reply, Lugia. I might have been unclear, I already own these modules!🙂 The mother 32 was my first module, and my introduction to modular. I plan on keeping in the this potable for the time being, until I fill it up with modules that provide more efficient use of the space. I bought the rings/clouds last year, and I did consider getting micro versions, but I thought the full size clones would be a little more playable with more space to get in there and tweak the knobs. I will probably swap them for the micro versions with the sliders and extra functions over time. I built the division six sequencer, to dip my toe into soldering and really enjoyed it, so I will be adding diys in the future too. All my modules are currently housed in a Tiptop happy ending rack now, but I just bought a frame to complete a Diy case using a case I already have. I figured I would gradually add modules as my budget allows. I would add the ones beyond the diy case to the tiptop as a sort of auxiliary rack with more capability for home use; using the more limited diy case for portable sketches in the park or on the road, ect. Then when I have enough to replace the Mother 32 Ill swap them into the diy and have more options for my portable needs. So, given the limitations of my current modules, and the fact that the mother is a temporary addition, do you have any advice on my choices for expansion? As it stands now, I use the clouds’ freeze for drones, and the rings sequenced by the division 6 for melody over that, with the mother 32 providing cv modulation. I would like to add sampling, so I can add field recordings, nature sounds ect, and re-sample my own stuff. And some random, or Euclidian sequencing would by great, with more cv modulation available to add complexity. Thank you for your time!

Thanks for the math, it's definitely not a calculated value decision for me. I just simply like the sound and the interface of the dfam. It makes its way into nearly all of my work and I like having it close at hand when patching. Maybe I'll put it back in its case someday, but for now it suits me well in the mdlr case.

EDITED Feb 7th 2021, 05:03

The easiest way to solve this is old and time-tested: a click track. Just use your main sequencing clock and send this to something that can make a little "tick" or "beep" or whatever works in your drummer's headphones, which you'll also need (plus a beefy headphone preamp!). This provides the proper tempo, and if you use some open-ear headphones, the drummer should be able to hear both the click AND the rest of the group. As for the possibility of the headphones falling off, refer to any picture of Keith Moon and how he adapted his set of phones for maximum thrashing around.

I really have no idea where this epidemic of putting Moog skiff synths in Eurorack cabs is coming from. I'll bet anything that some knob on YouTube is showing EVERYONE how to...well, waste money and valuable cab space by jamming a synth that ALREADY has power and a case into another powered case so that you'll now have to factor THAT cost into what you paid for the DFAM, in addition to the space and power you'll now need to add 60 more hp of modules into the space that WAS there.

I'll explain: take the cost of the Eurorack case in question, then subtract about $120-ish for each tile row. This build uses a MDLR 14 x 126, which costs...yeezy!...$1700! This is gonna HURT...

So, removing the tile rows from the cost here, your 3U rows with power cost $1460. The cab has 504 hp in 3U, so the cost per hp here comes out to $2.90, more or less. Now, let's bring the PAIN...$2.90 x 60 = $174 + $649 = $823!!! Did you pay $823 for the DFAM before? Well, you are now!

Look...it's clear from the build as it is now that you're painting yourself into a corner with that DFAM in there. See all those tile frames? That's what desperation for 3U spaces looks like, in action. So...yeah, it gets WORSE, because each one of those adds $15 to whatever module you put in it. $75 more...cha-CHING!!! But then, take the DFAM out of the case, and you can put those modules that would go in the frames where they SHOULD be. That, plus the space cost for the DFAM, means you SAVE $249, which you can then spend elsewhere...like on more tiles, which puts MORE functionality into the tile rows as well. And once you put the framed modules where they belong, you STILL have another 40 hp of 3U space. And from the looks of things, you definitely need more utility in the tile rows, instead of mounting one single 4 hp module into 26 hp of tile row, which is ALSO a space-waster.

Yeah, I get it...presumptive "convenience" and all that...but when you really break down the cost, the space usage, and the denser modular space wasted, how is this "convenient", exactly? I know modular isn't exactly about that, but trying to force convenience, like in this instance, tends to result in more expense and worse results.

Yeah, it needs more, that's for sure. But since you jammed that M32 in there, you don't have ROOM for that "more". C'mon...it's GOT a cab and power already; Eurorack cases should be for things that DON'T. Plus, it not only hampers your ability to build in the cab, this "convenient" strategy also makes the M32 cost a lot more than it does/should. How does that work? Well...

Intellijel's 7U x 104 costs $649. Excluding the tile row, which really should only kick things down by, say, $120, this puts the cost of just the 3U rows at something like $529. 529/208 = $2.54, which is what each 1 hp space in the 3U rows costs, roughly. Now, that sounds minor...until $2.54 x 60 = $152.40!

If you didn't pay $800 and change for your Mother 32...well, hey, here's your chance!!! Just leave it in there, and I kid you not, it DOES cost that NOW.

Basically, don't do this. The style of music you're aiming for, generative ambient, requires a LOT of space for a LOT of modules if you do it correctly. Putting the M32 in the cab shoves 60 hp of possible modular functionality OUT of the case. Leave it where it is.

Actually, check this nonsense out...

Ha! Went nuts here...for starters, all of this is combined into ONE build, because it'll function like that when in use, so putting everything in the same build layout made a lot more sense. It also made sense because I opted to "re-function" everything...and I do mean EVERYTHING! The signal flow now makes WAY more sense, plus I've isolated the drum and final mixer/FX functions into the Palette 62 and the 64 hp skiff respectively.

Top row: This is "voicing 1". First up is a buffered mult, because this really does need one. Then your Rample, which I followed with a Doepfer mini stereo mixer for submixing the four voices from the Rample down to a single stereo out. And for that matter, the entire row is stereo. Surface next, then the Ensemble Oscillator, and one of the Stmixes sums those with the Doepfer's output, leaving an extra stereo pair for various possible uses. The Supercritical goes after the Stmix, then I put in an Antumbra dual VCA, which is a dual VCA version of Veils. Warps is at the end, providing effects/processing for this row.

2nd row: "Voicing 2". Ladik Dual Lag because there wasn't really a slew limiter in here (not counting Maths!). Then the STO and Ts-L feed to the Bifold. After that is a Plaits clone, the Chainsaw, and then a Veils clone. The Veils clone sums the previous things in various possible ways, then feeds this on in mono to the MUM M8, then the Rings clone after that can not only do resonances, but also stereoizes the mono feed from the MUM M8. This is followed by another Veils clone, which can feed directly to the Data Bender. After that is another Antumbra dual VCA.

3rd row: "Modulation". I went hardcore with the noise and random source, opting for a Verbos unit which ALSO includes the Analog Shift Register for about the same price as the Qu-bit module + the Intellijel ASR, but in less space. And tbh, "less space" was a running task while working this out, so that even more functionality could be jammed in while trying to not compromise the ergonomics. Quantizer is after the Verbos Random Source, then there's a 3x VCA which can also function as a "breakable" mixer. I tossed the Ochd (it's better to go with total control over your LFOs rather than ganging the control) in favor of a Doepfer Quad LFO. Maths follows, then a Frap 321 for CV/modulation tampering/mixing/screwing with in general. Then I punched this out to EIGHT EGs by going with NANO's Quart for the 2-stages and a Zadar for everything else.

Bottom row: "Control". Your Polyend MIDI is first. Then I put the clocked modulation source in after this. Then I had a bit of fun by adding a Tool Box, which contains a pile of useful utility circuits and the like, followed by a dual CVable Boolean logic module so that you can use those utilities (especially the comparator and the OR) to screw around with clocking pulses from the Tempi and create some more complex timing signals which you can either use in the Arturia stack OR pass these on to the next cab. Last bits are the Tempi and Rene for your primary clocking (maybe...see below) and sequencing/control.

Palette 62: "Drums". I switched the main clocking/sequencing duties over to a Temps Utile, which also gives you a CV out channel plus ample clocking and sequencing, allowing me to drop all of the Pams. This can ALSO serve as your master clock, if you prefer...or you can take a DAW clock via the MIDI interface. The black tile after that is a Pointeuse, which can work as a bidirectional switch, taking either two signals to one, or the other way around...very useful for a number of functions. Then there's your stereo out. Moving down to the 3U row, there's another Boolean module because, well, more timing fun. This got followed by the Plonk, the Basimilus, and then I dropped in a WMD Fracture, a stereo percussive module, following this with another Doepfer stereo summing mixer for those sources. Then for some REAL trouble, I put in a Bastl Ikarie, which is a wild stereo VCF with an internal envelope follower for dynamic-driven VCF activity...this works REALLY well with percussion sounds. This gets followed by the Monsoon, of which I went for a slightly smaller version.

64 hp skiff: "Mixing". This is the nexus of all of this stuff. The other Stmix is there for summing stereo feeds from elsewhere in the build down to a single stereo pair. Then the Mimeophon is placed with this, so that you can easily apply some delay/loop action to those sources. A Xaoc Praga/Hrad performance mixer setup is after this, which provides four channels of your level VCAs, CV over AUX send/returns, CV over panning, cue and headphone functions for the rig, muting, and probably a few things I'm forgetting. This is intended as the MAIN MIX for the ENTIRE system, which explains why all of this got massively restructured. By doing the build THIS way, you have your subsystems unitized, and everything winds up going to this final skiff, dedicated solely to your mixing and processing for the whole damn thing! And as the cherry on the cake, the Prism now serves as your final mix processor, which is a really good use for it given some of the weird stuff it's capable of.

So, now it flows really well. Everything is in specific places, rather than scattered across the entire build, which should make the system much more intuitive and easy to work with. The sole flaw that I see now is that this thing has eight rows in the MG example here, and this might be a bit of a bitch to deal with if you don't have a (WORTH IT!!!) Unicorn account. But aside of that little technical bobble, which I did so that the entire system could be worked on simultaneously (because, after all, it's not like you're going to have these three [or four] cabs scattered around where they can't connect to each other!), this is now DAMN solid...not merely a single synth, but a real modular SYSTEM.

EDITED Feb 7th 2021, 03:55

Thanks for the great feedback. This is my first "larger" rack so I'm still figuring things out (one of the reasons I wanted feedback). Any recommendations for modules (adding/removing) is greatly appreciated.

I'll take another crack at this one.

Posted this elsewhere, but I am inspired by this 4ms Percussion Interface vid.

@CBD1000,

You are welcome, glad to help as I am fairly new to modular as well since diving in last year. The Varigate 4+ is only like 12HP and offer a lot of features in smaller sized space including scales/quantizer and multiple modes plus can save patterns for later recall. Plus you can use CV and gate modes. Not as precise as the Eloquencer but smaller size. It was my first modular sequencer and I still use it. But if space is issue you could get like a 40HP palette case with a larger complex sequencer like the Vector, Eloquencer or Erica Black Sequencer and use it with multiple setups on the go.

As for accents, I find the Axxent module with my Metron sequencer very nice touch. To me accents put a lot of flair and spice to drum sequences. I also use them with Eloquencer in ratcheting mode for melodic composition.

@Garfield- hehe well actually the WMD Metron does have random and probability modes! So yes, it does not have reverse or ping pong modes but for percussion is pretty awesome. BUT of all the modular sequencers that I now have in my setups, the Eloquencer is the best one. The display lets me view all 8 channel of tracks sequenced in one clear window plus easy to program and save for later recall and I can do 8 CV and 8 gate/triggers so it is a lot of power. Plus random, forward, reverse, ping pong and ratcheting plus lots of quantized scale options make for a great sequencer. If I get another eurorack sequencer, it would have to have similar capability. I can only think that Vector with expander can do these things unless Erica Black Sequencer adds an expander since that is limited to 4 channels of CV/gates and I'd need to buy two of these to do what my one Eloquencer can do.

Hi Tondakus,

There has been just started, yet another, sequencer post here in Forum --> Racks --> "Sequencing Modular - The Guide", so please have a look there what's being discussed there too:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9567

Another link that might be useful, so you can check the sequencer requirements you have against all the available stuff is this one here:

http://doudoroff.com/sequencers/

And I had quite some time ago also opened a sequencer post, more for the complicated sequencer (but direct usage):

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/7899

I haven't done any live sessions, so I can't comment much on that however my guts tells me that if I would play live that I need a sequencer that can do quick changes, easy to understand, easy to use and all that usually means that you have no or very less menu-diving. So look for a sequencer that has a direct usage. That very first link here mentioned is looking into that a bit.

Good luck with the sequencer-search and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Some of it is right...but only some. For one thing, it's really short on necessary utilities...CV/mod mixers, attenuverters, etc etc. Lots of "sexy module syndrome" here; nothing wrong with "sexy" modules, but it's the BORING ones that make them do what they're capable of. Plus, I don't see any sort of cohesive signal flow at all. The dual Rackbrute setup is a good one...but that's jammed with a lot of stuff that's just not going to reach its actual potential. Hmmmmm...

Hi Shakespeare,

It's good to hear you love the Erica Synths - Black Sequencer. When I was checking around after my first choice (as mentioned the Ground Control from Edorphin.es), my second choice would have been this Black Sequencer but both sequencers have been announced a long time ago and when I made my decision both still were not available.

So I bought the Erica Synths - Drum Sequencer, it's indeed even a slightly bit more direct than for example the Five12 (which doesn't mean the Five12 is not direct in usage). I am happy with it as well, pity though that just shortly after I bought the Drum Sequencer, the Black Sequencer became available :-)

Anyway, I am happy with the combination of the Drum Sequencer and Five12, not much left to wish for. Kind regards, Garfield.

No, you have 6U and 108 total hp of space, because you've jammed the M32 into the cab. And since the M32 HAS a cab and power, this is just a bad idea all around...especially since you now have to factor in the cost-per-space to house the M32 in the Euro cab. Convenience might say "yeah, do it", but economics and build capability say "don't even THINK about it!" Remove it and start over, because the overwhelming presence of just that one device is skewing what you COULD do with the cab.

Also, watch your module sizes! You've got a (VERY discontinued) repaneled Clouds in there, and not only can you not actually get that module except on the used market (if you're lucky), there are more capable and SMALLER clones of it by firms other than Mutable. Same advice goes for the Rings, too...go SMALLER. 2 x 84 isn't a very big cab, so optimizing space is paramount.

What I would suggest is to pull back from this, and if you don't have one, get a copy of VCV Rack (https://vcvrack.com/). I'm already seeing errors here that will make this NOT so capable of ambient improvisation...and given that I've been doing that sort of thing since the early 1980s, I oughta know. Instead, dive into VCV and explore, see how to REALLY do this properly (since VCV is a rather accurate Eurorack simulator and even has software versions of some of the hardware modules on MG), and THEN apply what you've learned to a better (and probably considerably larger) build. Otherwise, you're heading right into a rather unsatisfying money pit here.