I think that's what it means to do modular @tirikita, I can relate!

@tirikita I don't have any immediate thoughts on the questions you've asked, but wanted to chime in and say the vision for your project is awesome, I hope you share some tunes back with us!
-- troux

Most definitely! I suspect I may need to fill up this skiff before I can stop obsessing over module research and get back to focusing on realizing my vision... I'd hoped to make it a lot further in the studio with the extra time at home these last few months... But, majority of progress so far has been made depleting my bank account to build my rig, reading endlessly about modules, or recoiling in shock at how much time can fly by making test patches ("2am already again, how'd that happen!?!" ;)

@tirikita I don't have any immediate thoughts on the questions you've asked, but wanted to chime in and say the vision for your project is awesome, I hope you share some tunes back with us!

Looks pretty nice @stegi. How do you like the Telharmonic btw? I kind of want one.

Hello everyone. Wanted to solicit some commentary/advice/critique on the system I've been putting together for the last two months or so. I'm a multi-instrumentalist fusion artist, mostly focused on Indian Classical percussion, electronic texturing, and finding common ground/contrasts between the use of ambience, drone, and resonance in modern electronic music and North Indian classical traditions. First projects I have in mind (and have long been experimenting with in DAW and live settings) is a liveset of evolving synth "lehra"/"nagma" melodies layered to accompany, compliment, and modernize traditional solo tabla repertoire, thus finally marrying my two main musical endeavours and interests. To hit a homerun on the final point, I really need to find more ways to harness randomness to simulate the highly-regulated improvisation of Indian Classical raga and tala (Scales driven by offset white and pink noise, or by random CV generation algos on the Disting are a start, but at some point I'd like to get more sophisticated on this front).

Note on the case(s): top row is a RackBrute 3U, bottom is an older/discon 104hp Intellijel 4U skiff (so, the blanks up top are actually dead space, not available hp).

Oh yeah, and I also have an OP-Z that I'm using to add in some samples, occasionally handle some drum needs, and send out a line of GATE/CV for a melodic sequence.

Main points I'm hoping to get some advice on:
1) Module selection: based on the little I've shared above, any mods that seem I may have grabbed too hastily? Any mods you'd suggest I add? Any notes on redundancy or current lacks? Right now considering MI Marbles (but may hold off for later, as one side or both of the Disting EX can handle my random voltage needs for now), Clouds clone (probably After Later Typhoon), or maybe another oscillator for when using Plaits for additional percussion modelling (leaning towards Dixie II+ next). Not super happy with the Godspeed+ so far, but hoping I'll grow to like it soon

2) Layout. Pretty sure I'm just overthinking things considering I have a fairly small setup, but how should I be thinking about organizing? Grouping by function makes sense, but then again I do want my gates and drum mods close by... Does it matter at all with a system of this size? Or, is this just something that all synthesists need to learn their personal preferences on?

3) Anyone doing something similar? Either in terms of electro/traditional fusion, strategic random generation, or extended and slowly modulated cycles/loops?

Any advice, commentary, reality check, etc., very welcome and much appreciated! Cheers!

EDITED Jul 10th 2020, 18:39

What about an FX Aid (hard to find though) or in the opposite direction an OCHD?

I finally broke down a picked up a Disting Mk4 after initially writing it off as too menu-divey. It's a very valuable tool, but not much fun to use. I would definitely recommend it for your remaining 4hp due to the huge amount of utility it offers. Just know that you will be referring to the manual... a lot.
-- farkas

Yea I'm a little hesitant about the menu-diving style of the mk4.. I tend to enjoy "simpler" gear that is more plug-and-play

I finally broke down a picked up a Disting Mk4 after initially writing it off as too menu-divey. It's a very valuable tool, but not much fun to use. I would definitely recommend it for your remaining 4hp due to the huge amount of utility it offers. Just know that you will be referring to the manual... a lot.

I recommend getting a Disting mk4. It gives you a lot of options for how to use it in a patch, so you can get a lot of mileage out of it.

-- libertytoast

+1

Since you mention a sequencer and you have some space in the 1U row, look into the Steppy 1U from Intellijel. It's a 4 x 64 gate sequencer, so that should more than cover your sequencing needs.

I recommend getting a Disting mk4. It gives you a lot of options for how to use it in a patch, so you can get a lot of mileage out of it.

Hi Garfield,
Thanks for your feedback (as always :) ). I was close to selling the Planar but with the arrival of the Benjolin it's found its way back to the rack. I'd say it's easy to use, especially as a 4-channel vector mixer and also as a mod source when fully loaded (all input channels busy and all..). The joystick comes handy every now and then but you don't have to tweak it, CV in mods can do some tricks there. The Planar v2 has even more tricks up its sleeve as you can records the "animation" process then play it back.

Here's another track with the Benjolin, this time a more elaborate one. The OP-1 is again in use - anything that inspires me on the long run becomes a part of my setup :) I was luck bastard 6 years ago when OP-1s went for "only" 800 euros new - now they are 1400. Just plain crazy.
Thanks and cheers, Gabor

Thanks again. For various reasons, I'm simply not able to have a 'proper' monitor set-up (space, cost, and most importantly time - I cannot mix 'out loud'). So, I simply have to work around the limitations the best I can.

Hey, I have 4hp left on my small modular rack and debating what should I get to fill that space.
The case is the NiftyCase that has midi in/thru with 2 channels of cv and gate output, mod , clock and 2 output jacks built in.
I'm not looking for another oscillator though, as I'm using the booster stage to hook in other synths.
Also I'm using midi out from my keystep/computer for playability/sequencer stuff.

Here's what I got so far:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/image/1070226.jpg

Any recs?
Thanks!

EDITED Jul 10th 2020, 14:54

WebP image format

The images in the module browser are now in WebP format. That should decreases file size and load time by more than 30%.
WebP file format is supported in most browsers (Chrome/Firefox/Opera/Edge). Browser that cannot display WebP (Apple Safari) will get jpgs as before.
If everything looks good we will probably also change the modular builder to use WebP images.

After spending a few months diving into VCV and not losing interest, I'm starting work on a suitcase eurorack setup, 6U 86HP. My two goals with this are that it's viable as a self-contained system, though I may get a Keystep at some point down the road, and that a good chunk of the modules are DIY so I can put them together myself. I plan to use the Hemispheres firmware for the uo_C, but otherwise would put the baseline firmware on any module on the MI DIY clones, at least to start out with. There's no one particular sound I'd lean heavily into, so I'd like some flexibility in case I wanted to make something more experimental or something with more of a beat-based vibe.

My main concern is the balance of filters and utilities in the case. I wouldn't want to remove any of the voices, since I think they're all pretty flexible for use as percussion, drones, or a main synth voice. Since this would at least start out / majority of the time be a standalone system though, I want to make sure I'm not limiting myself by leaning too hard in one direction. I'd really appreciate some feedback on my current plan, to see if there's anything redundant or anything important I'm missing.

EDITED Jul 10th 2020, 14:10

@ecstatic_sutherland I ended up adding some analog oscillators to my rack just to have a few more synthesis techniques available and so I'd have a lot of options to play with, and on top of that so I could have some polyphony. There are a ton of different ways you could approach that though, including other digital oscillators like the Telharmonic or even a second Akemie's Castle.

I haven't used Rings at all so I can't say exactly where it fits in, or Stages either. I would expect the Zadar has potential for more grit and character than Stages, but might be less controllably expressive? And yes, if you do get it I'd get a Nin too.

Out of curiosity how many of these modules do you have so far? I sped into modular pretty quickly so if you're starting from scratch I won't suggest (as is common) that you go slow, but I might suggest you go moderately lol and get about half of what you've picked out here? An Akemie, a nice analog filter (FM synthesis plus a good analog filter is a great combo), and a handful supporting pieces would go a long way right out of the gate and might help with some of the questions you're raising.

EDITED Jul 10th 2020, 04:18

NOTE TO SELF:

I like this option for a portable palette case. I could do generative stuff as-is on the go, or pair it with an 0-CTRL at my desk to add more control. The biggest downside besides the lack of sequencer in the case is the omission of Ears. I would have to load my field recordings onto a SD card and import via Morphagene rather than just transferring straight from the recorder. I’d probably end up sampling more from my phone and the radio, etc. Another downside is that I can only mix the two stereo voices. I can not mix in my Grandmother or any other voices I may get in the future.

EDITED Jul 10th 2020, 15:38

Yeah...the only way to mitigate the monitoring problem is with a monitoring setup, actually. Headphones are very bad for critical listening and mixing because the proximity effects caused by having the drivers so close to the ear give false impressions of timbral content, overall bandwidth weighting, and the like. Basically, they cause "lumps" in what should be a relatively flat listening curve, and this makes using EQ very deceptive. Worse still, once you've created the "lumps" for yourself, then listeners who ALSO use headphones, buds, etc will ALSO have to deal with the "lumps" their own systems cause, which is the other problem with mixing in headphones. What sounds right in the closed environment of the cans tends to sound awful on speakers in free space without some major (and often expensive) correction measures, and can sound even more wacky in headphones that are "hyped" differently from your own.

My suggestion here isn't more plug-ins, in the end. You need to spend some money and get a decent monitoring setup. All the VSTs in the world won't help you if you don't have an accurate sense of what they're doing. Even the prime picks I made above will be just as pointless without any way to know what they're exactly doing. Fortunately, you don't have to spend Genelec-type money to get a decent result...something like these will be more than sufficient: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ErisE8XT--presonus-eris-e8-xt-8-inch-powered-studio-monitor Easy-peasy stuff...just connect your left and right line audio outs to the inputs on the monitors, and there you are!

...kinda. You also need to place these properly, which means you'll want some stands (like these: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SMS6600P--on-stage-stands-sms6600-p-hex-base-studio-monitor-stands) to get the monitors off the desk, and up and behind it somewhat. Again, you don't want the speakers right in your face, but they need to be back from you and angled so that they "aim" toward a wide "sweet spot" that needs to be where you are when you mix. About 6 feet between them should work, but the rule of thumb is that you and the pair of speakers should form the points of an equilateral triangle, at least in a small desk rig. Lastly, add these: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MoPAD--auralex-mopad-monitor-speaker-isolation-pads as they are definitely NOT snake oil, but help to decouple the monitors from the surface they're sitting on so that they're not damped by the inertia of sitting on a solid surface. This really opens up the bass and low-mid, and I've used them for decades now because they work.

All of this should be more effective than simply chasing VSTs. Sure, it's more expensive...but the results bear out the costs.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Thanks a lot for the explanation on how to get or build this sound. I am going to try that for myself, quite interesting approach :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Perhaps an analog multimode filter like Jouranalogue Filter 8 or Make Noise QPAS could make sense to further shape the sound?

Hi!

Thanks again! :)

I'm curious about combining Akemie's Castle with analog oscillators. Are you combining these in any specific ways? Are there any typical “roles”, or so, for the modules?

My idea was to use Stages (and perhaps Frames) for modulation. Do you think something like Zadar would make things a lot more convenient? Would you get the NIN expander?

After having thought some more about this, I'm actually thinking that Rings may be a bit too complicated as an effect for my system, and that I should perhaps take it out for now. I like to keep the system focused and not too “open” while exploring Akemie's Castle, and Rings is so dynamic. Have you used Akemie's Castle with Rings?

In line with keeping the system focused, I'm a bit hesitant to get modules like Erica Synths Black Hole DSP and Happy Nerding FX Aid (which seem absolutely awesome), since they are so flexible. I also think there might be too much overlap between what Dual Looping Delay, and what Echophon and Morphagene can do.

If I would take Rings out I have 20 HP to spare to enhance the sound of Akemie's Castle... :)

Cheers!

I could go with this. I wasn’t married to the full-size Plaits so getting the Nin and uVCF in there is cool. I appreciate the help! I have a uBermuda on the way so it’s starting to get real.

Sold a module to @Selten, smooth transaction, nice contact :)!

Thanks!

Disclosures - my room is wholly untreated, by necessity I do my mixing in headphones (dad, full-time job, 'studio' is in the home, not in a separate space) - in short, I am making do with a far from ideal set-up. I've done enough research to know I'm starting out from a disadvantageous point so I'm trying to find some ways to mitigate that.

I do a lot of playing around with panning and gain leveling, then EQ, then reverb, but looking for something like an EQ or filter for eliminating specific frequencies, tape saturation emulators, that sort of thing. The compressors and EQ in Sonar aren't horrid. Thank you for the the plug-in suggestions thus far!

Good night :)

The drippy filter is a clock/gate pulse hitting the V/oct (Nothing patched to the filter input) and the + and - envelopes of an ADSR tweaking the FREQ and RES. Thru a bit of Delay and / or Clouds and it sounds pretty nice.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Oh yes, nice track! I was about to go to sleep when I came across this track. Lovely, subtle and relaxing. I am sure I will sleep good after this track.

I love those kind of... what is... water drops? Nicely done, how did you do that?

Thanks a lot for this and goodnight :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Gabor,

That's a nice experimental track :-) How is the usage of the Intellijel Joystick, are you happy with it? I saw you were using it here. Is it easy in use? He, he, love to see your OP-1 being part of your setup, nice synth!

Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Pbcognein,

Please note that this forum is in English, so it would be nice if you could let us know in English what you were trying to tell us?

Thank you and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Sonar's a bit of an "orphan" these days, really...after Gibson (aka "The place on Elm Hill Pike where good brands go to die") snarfed Cakewalk, the support for it went out the window (like I said...Gibson...) and it fell out of favor. Now that it's escaped the clutches of the Guitar Deathstar, it might see some comeback action; have a look at https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk

Frankly, I recommend NO plugin here. At least, not for mixing. Rather, you might find it way more helpful to get an actual hardware mixer and use that if you've not used one before for multitrack production. Fact is, until you've done this and gotten used to what TINY changes in levels, EQ, etc can do, particularly with electronic sources, mixing "in the box" isn't going to work as well as you'd think.

Second, examine your monitoring setup. If you're tracking projects with a lot of heavy bass, you won't get too much that's useful there out of a pair of little desktop nearfields. Also, if your monitors aren't properly physically aligned so that you're in their "sweet spot", things will tend to be rather deceptive, soundwise. Plus, what does your workspace look like? Is it a "boxy" room, four corners, hard walls and floors, etc? If so, acoustic treatment might be very useful in the long run. And lastly, if you're using headphones to mix...don't use headphones to mix. Unless you have some expensive AF headphone amp such as an SPL Phonitor (that has spatial correction to fix having the drivers right in your ear), you can't get an accurate idea of how your mix works due to a whole pile of physics and such that I'm not about to uncork.

Now, as for plugins that'll help...these aren't the mixing suite variety. Instead, I would strongly suggest examining your mixbus instead. With some proper EQ, program compression, and maybe a touch of spatial trickery, you can use this to "glue" your mixes much more effectively than any mixing suite might do. First up, this: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/pteq-x-by-ignite-amps which is a really spot-on emulation of a stereo Pultec set. Another useful EQ for mixbus use: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/rs-w2395c-free-neo-classic-baxandall-eq-by-fuse-audio-labs which is more of a "tone control" sort of EQ for touch-up work.

Compression: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/mjuc-jr-by-klanghelm Yep, this is a "lite" version, but tbh, it's not very "lite" as far as performance goes. Set, forget, that's it. Also, this might be useful: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/signal-noise-sn05-g-brickwall-limiter-by-sender-spike which is a brickwall limiter, goes on the very end of the mixbus to deal with stray peaks.

Enhancement: try these... https://www.kvraudio.com/product/signal-noise-sn03-g-tape-recorder-by-sender-spike and https://www.kvraudio.com/product/rescue-mk2-by-variety-of-sound And then, for a bit of stereo enhancement, try https://www.kvraudio.com/product/a1stereocontrol-by-alex-hilton-a1audio

In all cases, these go on the stereo mixbus to do final tweaks to the mix itself, rather than tampering with the mixer itself. The latter idea is sort of a "can of worms" and can result in loads more confusion than simply coming up with a good stereo mixbus for the existing mixer. There's others out there along these lines that're worth exploring, and I'd suggest that before having a butcher's at the core of the DAW itself.

Upped the game on this slightly...

I scrunched the Plaits down in size by using Codex Modulex's 8 hp clone instead of the fullsized Mutable version. This then opened up four more hp...leading to adding the Nin expander for the Zadar and the extra hp for dropping in an Intellijel uVCF. Reordered the workflow, also...modulation left, voicing right, and this led to flipping the Quadratt and MIDI interface. It was SO close, I just thought a couple more tweaks could make it ready for a physical build.

Some good choices here for a microbuild, too...the uBermuda is a rather wacky little VCO, should add some strangeness to the Plaits palette, especially in tandem with the Tiptop folder.

Love this.

I've been researching how to improve my own mixes and there are a number of techniques to utilize, but I'm also trying to figure out what plugins might also help, perhaps a mixing suite. I use a version of Cakewalk's Sonar Professional from 2017. Can anyone recommend some mixing plugins that might be compatible?

Across several forums, I've yet to find anyone else that uses Sonar, or at least no one that responded uses it. Hoping someone here might have some suggestions. Thanks!

Hey y'all! Below is my current system, which I use not as a standalone synth, but in conjunction with the Octatrack. I primarily make dance music (house/global club). The Octatrack handles sequencing, cv trigger/lfo, drums, samples (pads/melodies, vocals, modular live sampling), and fx (paired with a Memory Man w/ Hazarai for delay) and the Palette takes care of dub chords (Tides) and basslines (hence the 6 vcas). I sold my Nord Rack 2 to get into modular for creative reasons, and have been very pleased with the results thus far.

Yet, because it's such a small case (and do not want to expand to a bigger one), I wonder if it would be best to rearrange some modules and replace the Mutant Brain with a CV.OCD so that I can free up 8hp of rack space. My first change will be to get a filter with more patching and sonic capabilities so I am waiting for Three Sisters to be back in stock. Would it be wise to pair it with another analog osc like the Mangrove, or should I consider something else for my setup? Any recommendations or critiques are greatly appreciated! Thank you!

EDITED Jul 8th 2020, 17:56

Here's something thats not upbeat! ;-)

EDITED Jul 9th 2020, 04:24

This one looks much better for a small build.
Have fun and good luck!

Well, I think the obvious one is a sort of sequencer. I have plenty of filters and oscillators. But I was hoping for more specific info about what might function well with the ones that I have. I don't use the Teleplexer that much as it is quite wild and crazy and not easy to know what sound you are going to get out of it.. Thanks for your reply.

Palette build number three. I feel pretty good about this? Shakespeare and farkas gave me some guidance. I have connectivity and power for KeyStep or SQ1. PNW and Zadar are powerhouses that take this thing to the next level. What do you think?

Shakespeare, thank you for the recommendations. I’ll cut the Steppy and go watch some videos about PNW. Do you think the Erica MIDI to Trigger would be a good inclusion?

farkas, I was not at all paying attention to depth so I’ll go back and re-examine. I can live without the Disting if space becomes an issue.

Disting does fit, but it is very tight. Others seem to have used 2hp modules as well. But I'd shy away from having too many modules of that depth... it gets tricky to arrange power cables, when you only have a millimeter or two of space between the board and the back of the case.

I echo everything Shakespeare said, and would add to be mindful of the depth of a palette case. With connectors and cables, you are going to be cutting it really close with the Disting and 2hp modules.

A couple thoughts that I hope are helpful, from another Palette user..

1. 3 filters in a system of this size is probably too much. Pick one, or one plus the 2hp module. Remember that Plaits has a built-in LPG, too.

2. You have two dedicated ADSRs and two dedicated LFOs here, which is ok... but you might also find yourself happier with one solid multi-function module like Intellijel's Quadrax or XAOC's Zadar or Mutable's Stages. Especially given that 6hp for a non-VC ADSR is not the greatest use of space (the Pittsburgh module). Any of these options could potentially save you a couple hp, too.

3. Steppy seems like a mistake, given that you have a DrumBrute and KeyStep at your disposal. It is only a gate sequencer, not a CV sequencer, so it won't do you much good with this setup, really. I'd suggest replacing the Steppy with some other utilities: an attenuator/mixer (Intellijel's Duatt or Quadratt), and nonlinearcircuit's 1u Sloth module (great modulation source, and probably best bang for the buck in 1u modules). With the space you have leftover, you could still add a couple of other smaller 1u modules.

4. If you can make room, Pamela's New Workout is just a great workhorse for any small setup. 8 clocks, or LFOs, or envelopes, or Euclidean sequencers, or etc. etc. All with built-in attenuators, offsets, and more. If this were my setup, I'd cut both of your current LFO choices and replace them with PNW, unless you really need the VC.

Others will tell you (correctly) that this case is too small for a starter system... but you can always buy a bigger case later, and use the Palette for when you want to travel, so you can't lose. Enjoy!

Great modules to add to your setup? There are sooo many to choose from.

I have 80 great modules and could give you many hints on great ones to check out but it would be good to know what you feel that you are missing.

The Joranalogue Mult is really good. Less voltage drop than other modules I've tried, at a fair price and tiny size (2hp).

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/joranalogue-audio-design-link-2

FWIW, I have a Bubblesound Dual SeM20 on the way. I purchased it to use with my e370. I'll post more about it after I've had a chance to play with it for a bit.

Peace, Marc

Hello. FWIW, I own both the Division6 Multiplicity XV and the WMD Buff Mult. I like them both very much. I am very interested in the Livestock Electronics Felix as well, but it is very hard to find right now.

Peace, Marc

You're gonna need a bigger boat.

The configuration you have would be great to modulate your other equipment, but not so good as a standalone instrument (IMO).

If you want something all-around that you can use stand-alone or with your other equipment, check out the Andrew Huang starter system. It's a great balance of modulation, sound generation and effects to explore.

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/andrew-huang-system.html

You could use Andrew's as a starting point and maybe swap out Plaits for your BIA. That'd give you an extra 2hp, I'd swap out MCO for Klavis Twin Waves to build a basic subtractive synth voice (check the depth will fit).

Marbles is awesome, but large for such a small case. Maybe look at a smaller Marbles clone, or Qu-Bit Nano-Rand.

I might go here with it:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1260559.jpg

Just my 2c. Modular is a very personal exploration. Enjoy your leap!

EDITED Jul 7th 2020, 01:45

Gargantuan thanks to both of you for taking the time to listen and to comment. I'm very grateful. :)