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1st piece of advice - bigger case!

yes I know the nifty is inexpensive and has midi and audio out built in, but you will almost definitely want to expand on these modules shortly after filling this case and therefore probably end up buying another one within a few months - this is a slippery slope - start off with something that will allow you to expand - I like the tiptop audio mantis cases - they are also inexpensive and have very good power supplies and are still quite portable

2 - for me at least the case is unbalanced

there are too many 'voices' and not enough support modules

a good scalable rule of thumb I like is:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

particularly there is no stereo mixing in the rack nor is there a buffered mult

plaits is a dual mono sound source, rings is a stereo sound source/modifier, beads is a stereo sound modifier/source - case only has one stereo input - you need a mixer - preferably one that can pan 2 mono signals to stereo and has multiple stereo inputs

each of these can accept v/oct - there are only 2 v/oct outs on the nifty case midi->cv (and I'm not sure if the keystep can sequence 2 parts at once anyway) use a buffered mult to accurately copy the v/oct to the voices - a passive mult will cause voltage droop which will make your voices out of tune (and you want them in tune if you are playing with others - so don't forget a tuner as well)

if I had to stay in this size case (which I wouldn't) I would dump the dreadbox modules and replace them with a veils, a stmix and a fx aid

is this a second rack? (as you have called it an expansion rack)
what is in the first? or whatever you are expanding?

if it is an expansion then depending on the modules in the 1st case, it may work, but if not there are some issues

the es6 is an expander and needs es3 or es8 to work iirc

odessa is polyphonic (when the expander is added) and could probably benefit from a chord sequencer (harmonaig or sinfonion)

i'd want more mixing (but you may have this elsewhere) and not just for audio

where are your offsets and attenuators for example?

whilst random is good - it's better as a small part of something else (ie mixed and attenuated) and it may be a good idea to look at chaos as well as random (nonlinearcirucits do a lot of this)

EDITED Aug 2nd 2021, 08:56

how are you playing it? keyboard/sequencer/computer?

how are you listening? external mixer/audio interface?

I think the idea of buying modules looking forwards is a great idea - but I would in that case fill the entire rack first - get that checked and then get the modules that make most sense to start with, within whatever your budget is - not that you will probably stick to the plan, or budget, but it will give you a realistic idea of what you actually want and how much it will cost in the long run

this will also help with case choice - you may find that in the long run a lc9 or mantis or DIY 12u/128hp case is the one for you based on the modules that you want to house and power

I really like doepfer modules - I have quite a few, but I'd probably swap at least the sample and hold for a kinks if you can find one - rectification and logic are useful additions - sometimes slightly more expensive modules work out better value - this also applies to the filter bank, often it is better to wait and get the module that you actually want rather than a module that is similar but cheaper - zlob have a new one out that may be more interesting for example

another example of this maybe veils - it adds a huge amount of gain on each channel so can be useful as an external input and also has offsets available on the new version

the lfo does free running - ie it does not have a reset - this is a good idea - also if you are into ambient check out the cycle length of the lfos - you may want something much much slower with reset capabilities

if you are not sure about the vco - find another one that you like more at a similar price point - modulargrid and youtube are excellent tools!

adsrs are not as common as you'd think in terms of envelope generators in modular - AD always seem much more popular - but maybe fot more ambient/drone stuff they will be ok - but I would be more interested in ones that have cv control over the stages

I also think that buying very compact modules may not be a good strategy - less functionality/ergonomics etc especially when case is fuller

if you are really concerned about space I would go for a smaller headphone module - alm do one that is 2hp - this is a good place to save space!

actual link to rack

but a vca that mixes > mixer or vca

I think effectively for every other manufacturer modules are always 'original manufacturer' (unless you count the b-company)

apart from the b-company's intellijel quad vca clone, I think the only other brand where clones of 'in production' modules are available is mutable - there were a few pcb/panel sets going round a while back for 4ms SWN, but other than that I know of nothing

the purpose of the open-sourcing of the mutable modules was for educational purposes - ie how to design modules with SM32 mcus/2164 opamps etc etc - and so that anyone who wanted to build one themselves could - NOT so that micro versions could be cloned

reputedly a lot of the builds are decent quality - pachinko seems to be a decent implementation of marbles, if you desperately want to shave off 2hp or whatever...

as I said before the difference in price is in most cases not that much and the usual reduction in size can make the modules difficult (or unpleasant) to use in some cases - tightly packed jacks and trimmers, especially when next to other similar modules etc etc - if you buy a real one then Emilie actually gets paid

I had a button break on my marbles and had to send it back to mutable - fixed free of charge and back within a week (NL -> FR -> NL) - I have mostly factory built and a few DIY mutable modules - if I decide I need any more I will definitely buy them!

supercell looks like a good implementation of clouds though

EDITED Jul 25th 2021, 20:55

the 'by far the best' manufacturer of mutable instruments is - mutable - ergonomically sound and great support, plus the original designer gets the money not some guy(s) who took a github plan for a module and shrunk it - mi also have great support!

black panels can be had for most of the mutable modules from various DIY stores

in the long run the cost savings are minimal for most modules and the space saved will be irrelevant once the case is full and you need to buy another anyway

I own Tides (both), Plaits, Marbles, Veils, Branches, Links, Kinks, Peaks, Streams from the factory and a couple each of veils, shelves, ripples and shades that I built and a few in the DIY backlog

I don't really have a favourite/least favourite - they all do what they are supposed to very well

EDITED Jul 25th 2021, 08:13

thanks!

if you can find a kinks buy it - inexpensive and incredibly useful - I always recommend this, links, shades and veils as a great utility starter set - pity kinks is discontinued!

doepfer matrix mixer - a thousand uses and again inexpensive

doepfer sequential switch

basically all the doepfer utility modules - excellent value for money - helps if you have a deepish case!

EDITED Jul 23rd 2021, 20:06

trust me there is no such thing as knowing too much about power and power supplies

one good reason for spending the bit extra and buying a real mutable module rather than a clone is the fantastic support - I had a button fail on my Marbles - and after emailing mutable it was there, fixed and back in 6 days NL-> FR ->NL

I agree with ronin in that generating patterns in the modular would be much more interesting than with a digitakt

but that leads you to the problem of case size - forget the intellijel 4u and go directly to 6u or 9u - you will use it

I also think it's interesting to at least consider having some basic building blocks to roll your own drums if you are going to go this way - noise sources, filters, vcos, vcas, snappy envelopes - rather than just buying all pre-built modules that lots of other people have

Unfortunately space fills up fast if you use modules that are 20HP+.
-- SCALEBRAIN

or the case is just too small - these beauty cases are great for focused systems especially for experienced synthesists, but as starter cases they are poor imo

good starter case sizes are 6u/104hp (mantis for example) or 9u/84hp (doepfer lc9) - both economically priced and with decent and proven power

1st real critique - don't post links to jpegs - post links to public racks - then we can click through and help you better

I'd also generally agree with scalebrain

cases under 6u/84hp are best suited for a single voice - as there is not enough space to comfortably add the support modules that that are needed and often overlooked by beginners - although not that bad - take the b-company module out & everything to the right of morphagene and you've got a better start - personally I would recommend a bigger case to start with - there's a good chance that by the time you fill this case you will have realised that this is not a rack that you want to patch that much and that in order to get there you need more utility modules (and probably that 2nd voice) and are buying another case - when you could have just bought the right one in the first place for less

nb there are different types of sequencer - steppy is a trigger sequencer - scales has a melodic sequencer, but looks a little fiddly to be honest - if this is how you intend to program 'tunes' then I would consider looking elsewhere

it's often better to start with modules (or functions) that you want and work to the case from there - instead of starting with the case

it's also often better to start as simple as possible and grow organically from there rather than planning racks that may or may not work for you

get a bigger case (intellijel are quite premium - look nice but expensive for what they are) and just get a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier and a way to play and a way to listen (a quad cascading vca such as veils is an excellent choice for this)

get the ones you like the look/sound of most - so for example: dpo, maths, morphagene, veils and a decent sequencer (preferably that does gates as well as v/oct and preferably with an internal clock)

next up you should look at more utility modules and a decent filter and then more modulation before a second voice

this ratio seems to scale well for modulars to me:
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities (including sequencers and controllers)

EDITED Jul 21st 2021, 19:41

no the free space is 10hp not 8,the previous post stated that branches was 8hp not 6

The Digitalis is nice. But think about the sequencer section of a micro Ornaments & Crime. It's 8HP and will give you four channels of sequencing... plus a BOAT LOAD of other options... like quantizing, LFOs, etc. The savings is 2HP in space. It will play nicely with the Pam's New Workout.

I would find something else besides the Timiszoara. There are even smaller multi-effects modules out there that are slimmer. The Expert Sleepers Disting EX is 8 HP and will do a LOT more than just effects and it's a DUAL UNIT also. That will save you another 2HP

Twiigs is fine. But if you go with the original Mutable Instruments Branches, it's 8HP. Hey, another savings of 2HP.

The Doepfer A-139-2 is 6HP. It's ONLY a headphone amp. Noise Engineering's Sono Abitus is 4HP and comes with BALANCED 1/4" outputs PLUS a headphone amp. You save another 2HP

If you take those four suggestions, you now have 8HP of space available.

With that 8HP you might consider an audio mixer module or replacing Sono Abitus with a mixer with headphones out. A small filter would be nice in addition to the mixer and some utilities (attenuverter, noise, etc.)

-- Ronin1973

actually it's 10hp - branches is 6hp

how are you going to play this?

how are you going to listen to this?

modular drums are horrifically expensive and/or poor substitutes for drum machines

virtually no modulation or utilities - the most important modules in lots of ways

there are lots of manufacturers in the same price range as nifty for vcos and filters - and mostly with better reps - & yes I know that the vco and filter are a collab with a known manufacturer

@tenebre6 whilst you are upgrading modulation I would seriously consider upgrading utilities too - adding a matrix mixer for combining modulation sources and a mutable kinks if you can find one, or the functions it has in other modules - sample and hold (there's the divkid one), logic (I like joranalogue compare2) and rectification

noob mistake - too small case

oh and take the neutron out - it has it's own case!

EDITED Jul 14th 2021, 21:41

No problem - good luck!

Mine is in storage at the moment or I'd check for you

https://wigglehunt.com

may be helpful - they aggregate availability of modules - you enter the name of a module and it sees if any are available anywhere in the world

there appear to be 321s available

there's usually a buy and wait option as well

seems to me like the shop didn't do anything wrong, though - you were just too slow

if you see an email saying a module you want is back in stock then buy it immediately

do not wait do not pass go do not collect 200 of whatever major currency you use - just buy it

almost, if not all, production runs of eurorack modules are 'short runs' mostly in the hundreds or less, these then have to get distributed between retailers - so each retailer might get 10 or 20 modules - so selling out very quickly is not uncommon especially with corona added demand - it's not like white goods where they get delivered by the truckload

just be aware the chances of getting a black maths are near 0 - they only come with the b&g shared system - the standard one is the one with white knobs

layout is difficult - it's personal and there are patch cables of all sizes.. so no need to worry about that - find something that works for you - it may take a few goes over a few months

personally if you want all the modules in this case I would get an even bigger case to start with (or at the very least keep the case you have too), as you could almost definitely do with another row - mostly for imo utilities for manipulating CV - plus the most important Make Noise module of all: Maths

I find this ratio is a good starting point:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

because you can send the same sound source to multiple sound modifiers, you need a lot of modulation in order to support the sound modifiers and sources and you need plenty of utilities, for controlling, mixing, modifying and mult'ing with and without voltage control all the voltages running through the synthesizer - unless of course you want to 'perform' with the case - even then I prefer the use lots of modulation - adjust modulation and re-route it method of performance as opposed to the frenetic micro tweaking you often find on youtube

things that could be cut back - sequencing - there's a lot of sequencing in there for not that many voices - I would remove rene for now - keep it for case 2 or row 3 or whatever - and I'd probably think long and hard about replacing one or all of the make noise effects modules and beads with smaller modules that will do similar things in less space - 2 or 3 fx aid xls and optionally a disting ex will give you something similar but take up about a third the space - leaving room for more utilities - or just use the old case

the major shortage I think is mixing - yes there are quite a few mixers in there already, but I'd want a matrix mixer in there - mostly for mixing modulation sources - possibly more vcas and definitely more filters and a wave folder

I'd also look at upgrading mixup as an end of chain mixer - you have x number of audio outs from modules and x-y mixer channels - and think about the difference between mono and stereo and how you deal with that/need to be able to mix mono (panning/stereo-izaton) and stereo sources together etc

maths being 'underused' is due to the user not the module

to prevent this:

rtfm

and rtf 'maths illustrated supplement'

and especially work your way through the 'maths illustrated supplement' a good few times - possibly each. time you get a new module

BUT this does raise a philosophical question - if you have a module and you don't use everything it can do, but use it constantly for what you do use it for, are you under using the module? personally I think no - & it's more important to know what the module can do and be able to access any relevant information easily (pdf on phone or laptop is easy enough) for the times when you do want to use it for something else rather than know every single thing the module can do inside and out

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....
-- Gemuesepfanne

but that is effectively what they have done... from their point of view the aluminium faceplates may work out not that much more expensive due to economies of scale - and the sales of modules are no where near the numbers for guitar pedals - worldwide there are millions of guitarists, most of whom have some pedals - an existing market - whereas with synthesizers there may well be millions of synthesists - but only a small percentage of them have modulars - a much smaller existing market... and for the ones that don't have modulars, it's easier to sell them semis - as they don't require racks, power or sometimes patch cables

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 15:18

No problem

I think the best way to look at it is that it is as a long term project

get a minimum viable synth:

sound source (vco) - plaits is popular and versatile
sound modifier (filter, delay etc) - I'd go for a low pass filter probably - doepfer do quite a few different ones for a reasonable price
modulation source (lfo/env gen/functino gen) - maths - google - 'maths illustrated supplement'
a way to listen - you got it already -4ms module
a way to play - again already got it - Pam's - will do
a decent sized case - already got it - mantis

and ideally a few utility modules - I usually recommend links, kinks, shades, veils (or similar modules - mia instead of shades for example)

and start patching - give it at least a month to learn those modules - as you patch you will work out what you are missing - take note and research and ask questions - buy one of the modules that you are missing, whatever that is -

then buy modules slowly - and save for the next case by sticking (cost of case * hp of module)/ (hp of case) in a jar - when your case is full you will have money for the next one!

you can build up a decent sized modular that will do what you want (and that you will know very well) over as long as you want to take - even a budget of €50-100/month will fill a mantis in a few years - this gives you time to research each new module thoroughly and to learn it back to front in conjunction with your existing modules

in lots of ways this is much better than buying loads of modules at once as that method can be overwhelming and often leads to not knowing your modules that well

just to add that in my experience it doesn't matter whether you buy used modules, new modules, cheap modules, expensive modules, DIY them yourself - you spend the same amount of money on modules - you just get more modules for your money (and possibly some tools - soldering iron etc and wood work equipment mainly - so you can build more cases)

distings can be used for lots of things - including almost everything I mentioned (not sure there is a granular algo) - I really recommend that you read the manual of every module you are considering buying before you buy it - otherwise you will be buying modules that do not do what you want them to - possibly confusing different types of module etc

but each disting can only do 1 thing at a time - unless you get the ex which mostly works as 2 mk4s - although some algos use all of it at once

for a complete basic synth voice you need:

a sound source (a vco), a sound modifier (a low pass filter), a modulation source (an lfo/envelope generator/function generator), a way to listen (I'd use a quad cascading vca such as veils to start with) and a way to play it (sequencer/midi->cv/cv keyboard)

I also strongly recommend links/kinks/shades as a great starter utility set

for a modulation source - I always recommend Make Noise Maths as it is a brilliant learning tool, mainly because of the 'maths illustrated supplement' it is a guide to self patching (patch programming) maths with 32 illustrated examples - a great way to learn modular thinking and patching - working your way through the supplement a few times is a great learning experience - in fact I'd usually recommend this as a first module to go with semis - it will replace both the doepfer dual slew limiter and function generator and add a second function generator and some other useful functions - and only take up another 4 hp

I'd much rather have Doepfer modules (I have quite a few actually) than behringer (I have none) - they are inexpensive, but have a much longer track record of manufacturing eurorack modules - Dieter invented the format - Uli seems to be an ass - not just because of cloning everything and anything (and sometimes in a dumb way - exact clones of early synth modules are not always totally compatible with other eurorack modules etc)

nb personally I wouldn't want a doepfer midi->cv module (I've heard some people have difficulty getting them to work - not sure which ones though) - I'd want more channels though

there are many other inexpensive brands - and some more expensive brands make modules that are more than worth the extra $/€/£ - due to combining functions cleverly

at the end of the day it comes down to do you want to support the big company with poor ethics, or a smaller company with (at least slightly) better ones - do you want to give your money to the original designer (if possible) or do you not care

personally I prefer smaller sometimes more innovative companies (Doepfer is 4 people in Germany, Mutable is 1 in France etc etc) behringer is 1000s mostly in China

behringer quality appears to be poor (nb this is based on watching a few videos and reading forums, I've never seen a behringer module in real life - although I have seen other products from them that were poor quality in the past) - they use stickers on their knobs that have a tendency to fall off, print on panels that is easy to remove etc etc

as always when something appears on the market and appears to be significantly cheaper than a lot of the competition - the 1st question should be how?

economies of scale - behringer can achieve economy of scale like no other synth manufacturer - partly due to their size, but also due to the fact that they own factories that manufacture a lot of 'reissue' chips - which they and other manufacturers use

quality of components - most module manufacturers use thonkiconn jack sockets - these have nuts for the front panel - and also use pots with nuts to hold them to the front panel (and put knobs on them that don't fall apart, see above) these hold the module together well - behringer uses neither from what I can see - they'd be much better if they had spent an extra 2$/€/£ on panel components and charged an extra 10$/€/£

cheap manufacture - behringer is effectively a fmcg company - all their manufacture is in china - most modular companies either build themselves in their garage or shed or attic - or get stuff fabricated locally - Mutable uses a fab in france for example

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 09:10

all publicity is good publicity - we are all talking about them - the more we talk about them the more people hear the name etc etc etc

there's an Irish airline called Ryanair - their CEO has a similar approach - so he's been known to suggest standing room only flights and charging 5€ to use the toilet

every time he comes out with one of these the share prices go up

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 04:13

some of the fx aid algorithms do the mono->stereo thing too

you are trying to do too much of it in too small a space

I would pick either evolving ambient or faster electronic music to start with and also leave out the drums (drum machines are so much cheaper)

there are too many sound sources in the rack - and not enough support modules to get the most out of them

a good place to start looking would be mixing - try to imagine mixing the sound sources/modifiers in the rack - some of them are stereo - some are mono - not enough channels to manage all of it well - no mono->stereo sub-mixing to feed to the effects - your mixing solution needs a serious rethink - yes you could 'mix' everything - using veils etc - but your options are very limited and won't leave a lot of mising /vca channels for other things

you probably want a filter for the MCO

Maths/quadrax/pams is probably more than enough for modulation - what's your use case for o&c?

mimetic digitalis looks very fiddly for a sequencer - I would do some research - if possible try one out before buying - sequencers are quite important in terms of workflow - if you don't get on with your sequencer(s) you will not get one with your modular

also the lack of something to combine triggers would seem frustrating - euclidean circles and pams - maybe a trigger combiner - or a switched multiple

and speaking of multiples - I would get a few stackcables and/or headphone splitters as well as looking at a buffered mult or maybe 2 (often they come in pairs) - perhaps links - that has 2 - one of which can be used as a a 2in 1 out mixer/precision adder (for adding v/oct signals) and a second simple mixer - very useful - as is kinks if you can find one (3 useful utilities you don't have)

ok - complicated - and not sure it will work - if you go to modwiggler there's an Expert Sleepers sub-forum that Os monitors - maybe ask there

there was a potentiometer shortage a while back and I've heard rumours of a shortage of tl072s and/or 74s - so there may be an analog chip shortage too

nobody NEEDS maths - at least not the module, but it is pretty handy to have around - in that it does a lot of things - please refer to the 'maths illustrated supplement' for more details - defintely get this module or a similar one (DUSG/falistri/rampage) if you are interested in synthesis as opposed to making sounds with a synthesizer (it helps massively with that too)

I'd want more utilities - but then I always do - mixers, vcas, switches, inverters etc etc - these are the dull inexpensive modules that keep the expensive shiny ones shiny!

of all the modules to remove from the case the obvious one to me is the dfam - it has it's own case and putting it in a eurorack costs extra money to house it & the hp could be used for modules that actually need rack space

not convinced on the need for the quantizer - bloom has a quantizer built in as does pams as does dfam iirc (which may need a converter too - if so there is one in disting)

black hole dsp takes up a lot of space - fx aid (xl) is much smaller and similar in function - whilst being more versatile

iirc you also need to connect the adat from the es6 to the es8 (as well as the ribbon cable)

"The ES-8 also has ADAT inputs & outputs. This could be used for example to expand the I/O count via an Expert Sleepers ES-3 and/or ES-6, or to connect a traditional audio interface to add, say, mic preamps or 1/4" line outputs (for example with the Behringer ADA8200). "

too many sound sources in this size case imo
not enough support modules for those voices
not enough mixer channels to support all voices - I count 20 (the sound sources, mimeophon and beads) and only 7 mixer inputs - none of which are stereo (and both mimeophon and beads are stereo)
almost definitely not enough vcas - use them for modulation too
no offset, no inversion, no switches
no sub-mixer for mixing dixies outputs before filtering
I would want another filter - maybe 2
dump most of the bottom row, except for tetra, algoryhthm and maybe ears and maybe the i/o
buy a matrix mixer for mixing modulation
consider tesseract modular tex-mix as a end of chain mixer - inexpensive and expandable - I would suggest starting with 3 4mono channels and a 4 stereo channels and a master channel - 12 mono channels with vcas +4 stereo, 2 send/returns, cue/mix and headphones - all in 58hp for less than 400 of your choice of major currency

Yeah, that must how they started with the child labor at Nike, « it makes things cheaper ». It’s all fine, carry on…
-- toodee

it's not why they started, but it is why they haven't stopped it yet...

there are lots of things you can do

you do not have to use every input and output of a module
you can/should mix outputs from a vco before filtering
do you need to mix all outputs together - no
can you process waveforms differently and then mix before filtering - yes send the non sub through some saturation or a delay or a pitch shifter - and then recombine with the sub before filtering perhaps
can you process outputs separately through different processing chains - yes
can you mix waveforms from different oscillators together before filtering them as one - yes
do vca/vcf/eg etc etc need to be the same model - no - they can be whatever you want them to be - how they behave is how you personalise your modular synth

this is why: sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities works perfectly - for example:

a sound source may have multiple outputs (different waveforms + sub) which want to be mixed (utility - maybe to 2 outputs) and then filtered (sound modifier - maybe 2 filters) and then mixed back through a cascading vca (utility) which needs envelopes (modulation source) - plus somewhere in there there are a lot modulation inputs some of which will want an lfos and/or other modulation sources combined in another (matrix) mixer (utility) perhaps etc etc etc

the more mixers, vcas, mults, envelope generators (and other modulation sources in general) you have the more choices you have in the way you patch your modular together - which makes for more interesting patches

it's fine to have 12 different vcas or 12 identical vcas (or envelope generators or filters or whatever) - it's up to you - generally a selection of linear and exponential (or ones that do both) is good to have though

EDITED Jul 3rd 2021, 15:27

it really depends what you are trying to aim for long term - this just adds a oscillator and a few basic effects

personally I would start by expanding the modulation capabilities some more

maths (see the 'maths illustrated supplement'), links, kinks, shades and veils (or modules that add the same functionality)

and then look at maybe adding another voice (sound source, sound modifier, modulation source) and ways to combine them more - a matrix mixer for modulation and an end of chain mixer (unless you have an external one already)

if you want to get the most variety out of your patches try to think in this ratio:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

I would also suggest reading a load of other - 'how to expand my (insert name of semi-modular)' threads - they are all relevant

1st advice do a lot of research before you spend any money - read lots of noob threads
most of them say to post a link to your public rack - so we can click through and help you

here it is :

to a large extent almost any modules can be used to make any type of music

however mostly when I think of ambient I think of delays and reverbs, vcas and sample and hold and to some extent granular - not really enough of these - unless you are intending to use the distings for this - in which case while disting is an excellent module - get dedicated ones of these - multiples in fact

what do you already own?

big hint - remove the semis from the rack - they already have cases and take up too much space

no where near enough utilities - more mixers (of a variety of types), vcas (I would like to be saying more vcas, but unfortunately you have not done enough research to learn the value of vcas yet), attenuverters, offsets, switches etc

if I wanted 2 disting mk4s I'd buy the EX model instead - more features etc etc

yes - there are always cycles - as most manufacturers are quite small - and production runs are quite small, which also tends to mean that component orders are quite small etc etc

the pandemic has made things worse and I suspect it will be a while before things get back to normal

the attenuation is in brackets because I have no idea if it's there or not - as I said to confirm: ask Mangu

tbh I would be very surprised if there is any significant difference between the 2 modules other than the 1/4" jacks

@Hikove - that's a very good question - I've not built mine (which are the 3hp ones btw) - but I am intending to use them with a es8/es6 combination - which should take both

I suspect they are modular level - as iirc they are pre-fader - but there may be attentuation - not checked the BOM yet - the 6hp versions with 1/4" outputs appear to have some smd ICs (so maybe there is/maybe there isn't), but are also described as usable as standalone 1/8"->1/4" adapters - not that that means anything as signal path could very well be:

rear headers (-> attenuation) -> 1/8" -> 1/4"

most modern mixers/audio interfaces should be able to handle modular level signals - before I got the texmix I was using a cheap yamaha mixer (MG12? cost me about €100 new in the mid-2000s) - and it was fine - just turn the gain right down! or not

if you really want to know send Mangu an email (contact details are on website) - he usually responds pretty quickly

1A = 1000mA

I have a couple of the smaller DIY ones (pusherman and york modular) - the AISynthesis one is similar - if you are pushed for space then they are fine - although if I was to buy one now I would probably go for the doepfer or the 4ms vcam - or maybe the doepfer and a rebel technology mix04 - or maybe the nonlinearcircuits clump

I have the tex-mix - I started with a master channel, 4* mono channels, 4* stereo channels - I have added an extra 4*mono channels, plus another and 2 3hp douts in the DIY backlog

plus points - it's inexpensive, it's properly expandable, it has 'most of the features' that the wmd perf mixer has, it's DIYable (if you want to save a bit more cash) - full kits are relatively expensive, but only as all the smd is pre-populated - so only panel furniture and headers need soldering - about 1/2 hours work or so per module - so not madly labour saving - Mangu's customer service is great and shipping is quick

minus points - vcas only on mono channels, no auto-panning, only 1 headphone output, no stereo send return - only 2 mono to stereo, it uses knobs not faders

but for most of these things there is a work around - mostly get more vcas and utilities

I mainly see vcas on mixers to be used for controlling channel gain - not for shaping individual notes

I've just got a doepfer octal vca to pair with 4*stereo channels - yes I know it's linear - but for channel gain I think it should be fine - not tried it yet and won't for a while (a month at least - long story)

auto panning - how much do you use it?? do you really need it on every channel? I don't use them that much, maybe will in the future with better stereo imaging - a pair of vcas, a mult and an inverter - plus whatever you were going to use to control the panner anyway - all of which may already be in your modular - but you may need more of these

there are 2 mono sends available for each track - I use these as l and r outputs into (currently) an fx aid xl and then just use one of the stereo returns

the faders on the perf mixer are quite short - I find the knobs fine though

the rack as a whole seems very light on utilities - 'the dull polish that keep the shiny modules shining'
I would basically fill the skiff with a variety of these - you can get a lot more out of the modulation sources that you have by multing, mixing and modifying them more - a matrix mixer is especially useful, as are small mixers, offsets, polarizers, switches etc etc etc

Thanks guys,

You've given me some great tips there, a few things I wouldn't have even thought about!

@Cangore I'll have to look into Kinks ...a little bit of random on noise sounds right up my alley. Mutable Links is something else I'll need to look into....so many options it's easy to get over whelmed!

it can be easy to get overwhelmed, that's why we often say replace this module with this one - because mostly we will recommend modules that we have and have had good experience with - I just had to have a button replaced on my Marbles and DHL and Emilie had it back to me in perfect working order in 6 days!

Blades is pretty much only there as a placeholder. I know I'll want a filter and I was impressed with what I saw from MI

@JimHowell1970 I have Beads on preorder. I'm willing to wait for that one besides...it gives me time to figure out the other stuff. :D

I wasn't at all saying don't get either - I was saying there's going to be a long wait (at least for beads - blades seems to have been re-stocked) - seriously though get an fx aid xl in the meantime, you won't regret it!

RE: Veils & Maths Likes I said, I'm new. No idea really which versions are the newest. When it comes shopping time I'll p[probably grab which ever ones my local retailers have (unless I find a good deal used)

dealers will only have veils 2020 by now and the white knob, aluminium panel maths (if you can find one) - you might be able to find other versions used - but then a mk1 maths is quite different than a new one - I would get a newer one at least (blue knobs, white knobs, black panel not red lightening panel) - the same goes for veils - you can filter by module/brand and order by newest if that helps

I was planning on running the output through the Minibrute to start with then expand with mixer and a seq on the next round of impulse shopping.

sounds like a plan - remember to get something at least a bit bigger than you think you need - you probably will in the future - I like the tesseract tex-mix for this reason - it's expandable and inexpensive - even if you buy built modules - need another 4 mono or stereo channels that'll be 12hp and 70€ - it does mean you spend elsewhere though - but for example - I don't need lots of auto panning - probably only 1 channel and I can use 2 vcas, an lfo and an offset, which I have anyway to do that if I need it - or just do it it in the DAW (if I'm recording)

attenuation/attenuversion a is somerthing I hadn't even considered.

nor offset I expect!

As for planned music? something between old school industrial and early periods of Aphex Twin with a dash of 80's New Wave...I think...we'll see what it morphs into :D
-- legion

good luck!!

no, just € & $, but there is a feature request thread somewhere

I don't think it's done by exchange rate more expected selling price - which is often why you find non-eu manufacturers prices about 20% lower than actual shop prices - no VAT added

EDITED Jun 26th 2021, 16:18