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Hey all,

I’ve been messing a lot with VCV Rack lately and I think it’s time for me to dip my toes into the world of eurorack. I told myself I wouldn’t let myself get into this but I’ve been selling a lot of guitar pedals lately so I have some funds kicking around. I’ll give you some background and then I’ll get to the questions that are bugging me at the moment:

So far, it’s looking like it will be based on a Mother 32, due to there being a few available on local classifieds and I like the two-tier rack that is sold just for them. The 60hp size also feels like a good amount to work with for a beginner. Another plus is that I own a Sub Phatty, so I’m familiar with Moog interfaces.

I’ll need a power supply of some sort, I’ve been looking at the Tip Top uZeus and the 4ms Row Power. Some other modules that have piqued my interest are the Make Noise Maths, the Expert Sleepers Distings mk4, and almost all of the Mutable lineup (especially Rings and Plaits!).

Now, here are some of the questions I have:

-Based on this setup, are there any shortcomings I’ll need to deal with?

-Are there any modules that you feel compliment Mother 32 well?

-I’ve read that most of the in’s and out’s of the Mother 32 are MAX +5/-5V, what would be the best way to prevent other modules from sending too much voltage?

-Is it worth getting a mixer module or is it most likely that i’ll be routing everything through the output of the Mother 32?

-Is it worth having an external sequencer? There’s a Korg SQ-1 and a Arturia BeatStep available on my local classifieds at the moment.

-If you had a Mother 32 and a spare 60hp to work with, how would you fill it and why?

Any help with the questions above would be appreciated greatly. Thanks in advance!

EDITED Nov 24th 2018, 07:40

Do we also post bad traders here? ruthmos totally ripped me off. Sent him money in May for an Cwejman ADSR and never could track it. Got a couple notes that he was drunk and would fix it the next day...eventually responses stopped coming. Now I see his username is deleted / disabled.

fabricecesario@yahoo.fr
Fabrice

sucks.

o will

I’m pretty new at this myself but you’ve got a few discontinued modules there and others that will be equally hard to source including the Thomas Henry LFO and the buffered mult - both of which are quite large and there are plenty of slimmer options.I’d definitely invest in a larger more versatile sequencer with the extra space, I’ve got a 2hp pluck which is fantastic at the size and price for karplus strong sounds which might be a really useful voice for the kind of music you want to make and also a 2hp arp- also good but the two mini pots are, how shall I say- overstretched for the functionality and control required so I think the seq would be a bit frustrating to use, a good unit if you desperately need a another basic sequencer and are really struggling for space but probably not a first choice primary sequencer.

Hey people,

this is my first rack. Getting started with modular synths. Loving it (and terrified).
Deliberately keeping the modules relatively simple. I prefer to get the hang of analog vc-control down first before diving into complex, digital modules.

So far, what I think I'd like to change about this set up is:
- adding VC-controlled LFO's
- adding other filters

I would appreciate any advice on how to (economically ;) improve this system. What are your thoughts on the modules I have in here and which ones would you swap out first? If you had to add one or two, which ones would you choose?

Re sounds: I love ambient soundscapes, drone-type and minimal sounds. I don't like rave / chaos / 4-4 house.

Thanks!

https://soundcloud.com/returncodezero

https://returncodezero.bandcamp.com

Thanks for the Qubit tip- I think that’s the way I’ll go, and scrap my sequencer ideas-the voltage block seems to do exactly what I’m looking for ie subtly shifting harmonies but in a pretty small footprint, the note entry seems a bit clumsy but looks like it might yield plenty of happy accidents though.

Thanks Lugia, the build is basically finished, adding Pamela as a clock and modulation source, the Quadnic and couple more quick intuitive sequencers( a pair of stepper acids perhaps or even a another pair of Metropoli - is that the plural of Metropolis?)at some point and ditching the Chord is as far as it’s going ( ha ha). The Moogs are still separate but just put in the rack for the purposes of the thread. I just realised I missed out what is actually quite a key component- a WMD Pro out so I’ve got no issues with the line out so far, the rack is going into an external mixer basically to provide a soundscape/rhythm section for a Voyager OS and Sub37, theremin and guitar- the Pittsburgh mixer appealed because I can run the guitar via a UA Oxbox into the modular system and share guitar pedals between the synth and guitar as well as being able to mess with the guitar signal. The automation thing isn’t critical on the mixer as pretty much as soon as I plugged Frames in I realised it’s like programming- and I HATE programming! Your point about VCAs, envelope generators and LFOs is taken on board, I’m just a bit lost as to the best way to go in this area- just discovered the joy of sending the LFO square and triangle from the M32 to the aux inputs of the Metropolis controlling the 2hp pluck and realised how much they open up the potential of a system, as to envelopes- could an ADSR module be easily synced or triggered with my existing set up plus Pamela?

Looking at the build pic and reading what you're trying to do here, I think that the Frames is a poor choice with as few modulation sources as your build has. Also, the Pittsburgh...while it's a good mixer...won't do what you want, either. And as for attenuating the output (which I'm a bit confused about your description of here), it doesn't matter what mixer you use, you have to attenuate an output to a line-level input because synth-level signals are quite a bit hotter than regular line-level.

If I were facing the same problem, I would first go with a different mixer altogether, namely one which has its main functions under CV control, but which doesn't have extra complexities. The Frames is really more intended as an audio signal "morpher" than just a mixer, and the Pitt module isn't as automated. Instead of either one, have a look instead at Qu-bit's Mixology, which is a four-channel mixer with CV over channel level, pan, and effect send and the additional utility of channel mutes and solos.

BUT...and this is pretty critical for making a build succeed overall...you desperately need more modulation sources. I don't see any additional EGs or LFOs, which are major bread-n-butter modules in of themselves, that can be dedicated to envelopes for your level VCAs or effect send VCAs or LFOs for panning and most everything as well. Plus, even with this different mixer, you will still need some sort of output level attenuator/control to keep from running your mixer input into immediate distortion.

At the basic level, this isn't a good build at all. Your Moog devices really should stay in their own OEM cabs if you're building in 84 hp cabs, otherwise they're hogging space that needs to be there for other things. There are no VCAs (linear or exponential) outside of the Moogs, nor any LFOs or envelope generators beyond what the Moogs offer. I would strongly suggest that you stop what you're doing with this, step back, and take some time examining other builds by experienced users as well as classic modular/patchable instruments to see what those people or companies are/were doing. Take some time to go through the forums here, also, plus at other sites such as Muff Wiggler, Synthtopia, etc to get a more concrete idea of how to proceed. Do the very necessary research before continuing, because modular can be a very effective way to create...but conversely, a very effective hole down which money gets uselessly thrown if one has no clear idea of what they're doing. Sure, they look cool and all, which is why a lot of people right now are drooling over them, but without a clear understanding of what you're doing and why you're doing it when creating a build, it doesn't matter how cool it is, it'll just be a waste of your time and money.

Also, perfect dealings with @joeSeggiola and @easyskywalker sorry for the late feedback!

Bought a couple of modules from @lucoli awesome condition and a nice guy to deal with A+ recommended seller!

That would make me very nervous unless there's a really good explanation for this. Did anyone ever encounter something like this that turned out to be 'legit?'

This is not the portable but looks so good. Make noise and Erica have the good collaboration. I am wondering this monster case of the portable 7U make noise case or Erica's portable case.... Difficult to decide now.

experimental quadraphonic atonal generative system

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_789046.jpg
Evening modular people, fairly new to eurorack so need a bit of advice. I bought Frames as a mixer because the key frame idea appealed to me, being able to fade in one source or sequence as you lose two and leave another more or less dominant in the mix with the turn of one knob sounded great on paper. In practice it is a bit clumsy and setting the levels up how you want is pretty hit and miss, it also can’t be used on fly at all unless you’ve got two separate systems running in tandem so I’m left with essentially a quite expensive 4 channel mixer. I appreciate it can do the same trick with CVs and has other hidden depths but at this stage that’s not what i’m after, saving grace it has a really crackly pot so can be returned BUT - do I need the VCA/attenuator element of the module? I’m thinking of exchanging it for the Pittsburgh Modular system interface which offers me some much more practical useful features in a mixer but will I need to purchase VCAs to get decent levels out? I should add the modules on the far right are not part of the setup but the next purchases to be made from the ever expanding wish list. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks @Plexusgel for dual adsr. Very fast shipping and perfect module!

Thanks @lucoli for Maths great module, perfect condition and fast shipping!

Well I am thinking about the voltage block instead of the Z8000 a lot. Z8000 really is big... Voltage block is not really a matrix but it has 8 CV outs, build in quantizer, build in clock divider, probalility per setp and a slew limiter... I wouldn't need the O_c... Pam I want to keep I think because of all the nice features.

I bought a uBraids from Michigan Synth Works. Can't complain. I bought an O_C and Temps Utile from a Modular Grids member/maker. They work perfectly as well. Message me and I'll give you the name if you wish.

Read up on all the functionality of the OC... it even has a dual sequencer that can output gates as well as envelopes. So if you get in a pinch, the OC can deliver envelopes or your quantizer or even an extra shift register (but only one set of functions at the same time).

As far as your matrix sequencer, you might want to check out Noise Engineering's Mimetic Digitalis. The functionality is similar (but not the same) as the Tip Top unit. It's only 10HP and about $100 less. Pair that with a second O_C and you should have even more options in 18HP rather than 28HP. You can also save the state of the O_C and the Mimetic Digitalis, which is a big plus. With that extra 10HP, you have room for another 10HP VCO or 5 2HP units.

I know, so many options...

Fair price , perfectly built , fast shipping in armored packaging ... very good guy is @wtkdwc , thanx aaaa lot :)

Hey Ronin1973

Oh wow, the Ornaments and Crime really does a lot of things I want. Also the shift register is back in with it... I am not really into soldering, but I saw Michigan Synthworks build those thingies for you (if you can wait for 21 days...). Looks like the uScale is more easy to use, but O_c does so much more... hmm.

To make space for the O_c I had to do some compromises... less VCA and ADSR. Now I have 6 VCA and 5 ADSR sources, one ADSR is a Tiptop Z4000 and 2 are more simple ones from the Doepfer A-142-2... Clicking on the rack should get you the new setup. Also the Ladik dual lag is back in, which I imagine handy for the Z8000 out into non-pitch CV.

With both the PAM and O_c there seem to be plenty of LFO outs now, nice.

Happy I could help with the HN mixer. It was initially proposed by Lugia. I was between Roland 531, Verbos Scan&Pan and this one...

Hi there.

If you're going with the Intellijel 104HP 7U case, it has 1/4" inputs and outputs on the case already. You won't need to add the 1U jack interface that's to the left of the volume control module. The TipTop Z4000 ADSR has CV inputs that can control each stage of the envelope. The Doepfer saves space but you're going to get sick of those jumpers in a heartbeat. The Z4000 is 8HP, so two of them equates to 16HP. The Intellijel dual ADSR is 14HP. I would substitute one of the Intellijel VCA modules for something else that's a little slimmer like the Zlob 6 channel VCA. It's slimmer and gives you six VCAs instead of four. They aren't as flexible as the Intellijel, but you've got that covered with the first Intellijel VCA.

If you can spare even more room, get rid of the uScale and replace it with a micro Ornaments and Crime. It has a quantizer built in, plus a bunch of other features when you're not needing a quantizer.

That Pan Mix by Happy Nerding is an awesome find! I was seriously considering the Roland 6 channel mixer because of the panning... but it also has mutes. But the CV control of panning and volume makes the Pan Mix a bit more attractive. Thanks so much for posting it. You've helped ME out. :)

The purpose for this patch was to derive as many Drum sounds as can fit in the available 6 Summed Audio Outputs on the Modular (4 from Quad VCA+2 Additional on Mix 3).

More simultaneous drum sounds are possible if Mother 32, Plaits, and an additional Disting are used, but these may not be as modulatable as there are no remaining VCA's (other than simple ones using Maths Channels 2 and 3).

Sending simple noise into the Quad VCA with closed Amplifiers, and CVing with Channels 1 and 4 of Maths is particularly effective for expressive changes in "snare" drum length (can then use Peaks as a Hi-Hat). To create a better composition, program and sequence States using Planar 2 as an anchor to bring you back to State 1 ("Chorus" State).

Colour Scheme

Tempi Channel Outs
- Purple Stackcables

M32 Assign Out (Tempo) into Tempi
- Long Black

Disting Outs
- A is Medium Yellow
- B is Long Yellow

Dixie II + Rings Outputs
- Medium Yellow

Cinnamon, Peaks Outputs
- Short Yellow

Maths Unity Channel Outputs
-Short White

Quad VCA 4/MIX Out and Mix 3 Out
- Short Orange

Disting Parameters
- H7 Noise
- 2 Simple Blended Noise outputs from A and B
- Would have liked to have a Second Disting, in order to use one for Noise and another for MIDI-to-CV until I am comfortable with using the Mutant Brain.
- Noise Lengths are modified manually by the Fall parameters on Channels 1 and 4 of Maths

Tempi Parameters
- Default Bank 1 State 5: Clock Divider Even
- Leading Tap Tempo Enabled, but Tempo is fed in this case by M32 Assign Out (sending clock rate pulses, M32 Assign Setting #2)

Colour Scheme

Tempi Outputs
- Long Green

Data Tempo Output
- Short Black

Ears Gate Out into Buff Mult CH. 1, and CH. 1 Outputs
- Input & output 2 are Long Yellow
- output 1 is Short Yellow

Quad VCA 4/MIX Out into Buff Mult CH. 2, and CH. 2 Outputs
- Purple Stackcable

M32 VCA Out
- Medium Red

ADSR Out to M32 Buff Mult, and Outputs
- Mult In, Output 1 are Medium Blue
- Mult Output 2 is Medium Grey

Dixie II to Cinnamon CV In
- Medium Orange

Maths to Rings 1v/oct
- Short Green

Rings ODD Out
- Short Grey

Cinnamon Lowpass Out
- Short Black

Only 1 State is used, with Audio Rate Leading Tempo set by DATA (920 BPM).

Channel Configuration:
4 channels total (5-6 are muted)
1 & 4 are ON, Mod-disabled
2 & 3 are ON, Mod-enabled

Program Edit (Mod) Page:
Shift is OFF (CH. 4 unlit)
Run/Stop is set to Run/Stop Mode (CH. 5 red)
Run/Stop is Toggled (CH. 6 unlit)

Sequencers: the Mod, the Main, the Random, and the Drums - and the Quantizer!

EDITED Nov 18th 2018, 00:07

Hi there

I thought I'd give you an update of my thoughts. As before, first I want to plan a 4-voice style rack with it's own sequencer. So here is the setup, as it looks now:

1. 1U row: Attenuverter and mults for basic stuff. I know there are inline versions but I want to have at least a few of these in the rack. The audio I/O (jacks / pre-amp) also moved to the 1U section.

2. 3U row: PAM for clock generation / modulation into Z8000, gates and other purposes. Then a dual lag, 2x Twin Waves, S-P Filter and 4x VCA; mostly unchanged form before. I eventually ditched the KOMA VCA, now I am taking the Doepfer A-132-4 into account, mainly because it's super easy on the HP, but still not super sure of it. uBurst/clouds for effects (I think the only module form my initial setup...). Next a 2xLPG (duh, how could I have missed that) and the HN mixer for stereo out.

3. 3U row. TipTop Z8000. Its cheaper than Rene2, has 10 CV outs and Matrix control. I saw a few demos and I am almost sold for that one. Mix4 to mix some or all of the 4 VCOs, moved down because no space upstairs. 4x ADSR, two of them with VC over each step, 4xLFO. Last not least: Wogglebug for random CV and gates.

The case: I think in the end it will be the 7U inellijel (2x104 HP, so more space than this setup). But at this time I don't have the monies for it. I will get the Doepfer DIY and 2 extra rails for 7U. Otherwise I won't have the money for the first modules.

So, for those still interested: Am I still missing something? What would you do different?

OK, in the meantime I get really hyped for this. If my boss decides for a bonus this year I will start building in January.

• Edit: I think for the Z8000 I need a quantizer, which I added instead of the 2x Lag (which will be missed). Also now a Inellijel 4xVCA instead of the Doepfer because they seem little bid more varibale (lin. & exp. and build in attenuators). Removed the TipTop ADSR for the Doepfer ADSR to make that space, they have at least on CV over one Phase (choose via jumpers).

EDITED Nov 18th 2018, 21:05

Some of the problem, I think, comes down to users who post modules and don't make a selection as to whether a module is "currently available", "concept/prototype", or "discontinued". If people would show a lot more discipline about doing that when posting something new, then it would be easy to use that existing filter to deselect the unwanted entries.

Using the "currently available" filter in searches does help some...but then one runs into the issue of modules that are definitely available but not labelled as such. Again, this is a user issue as I note above.

reidv does make a good point, also...if you're posting something that was a one-off and which is only in your rig, definitely use that "unlisted" checkbox unless you actually plan on making said module(s) available for sale.

Bought a Circuit Abbey Invy from @Darylc. He sent it out right away and it arrived in excellent condition. A+ transaction

Please for the love of god. It's such a mess.

Please also:

• Make "Show other/unknown Modules" unchecked by default
• Or make it a setting.

He finaly replied. The modules just have been sent. Or so he pretends, because he gave us no tracking number and do not answer to our last mail asking for it. Too bad he treat his customer this way. His modules, even if digital, are interesting, but we won't buy anything from him anymore.

Cable Colour Scheme

Planar 2
- ABCD Out = Long Red
- ABCD In = Stackcable Green
- Gate Out = Short White
- XY Outs = Stackcable Purple

Tempi
- CH. 1-4 Out = Stackcable Green
- State Gate In = Short White
- Mod In = Long Black
- Tempo In = Medium White

Buff Mult
- CH. 1 = Long Blue (both in and outs)
- CH. 2 = Medium Yellow In, Long Yellow Outs

DATA
- Inputs = Long Red
- Mult Outs = Long Black
- Tempo Outs = Medium Grey/White

Disting
- X In = Medium Grey/White
- Y In = Medium Red
- A Out = Medium Yellow
- B Out = Long Yellow

M32
- LFO Rate In = Stackcable Purple
- VCA Out = Medium Green
- VCO Mod In = Short Green
- MULT 2 and VCF Cutoff = Short Yellow
- MULT 2 = Stackcable Yellow
- MULT In = Long Yellow

Plaits/Rings
- Outs (ODD in Rings) = short Orange

Cinnamon
- Lowpass Out = Short Red

Peaks
- OUT1 = Short Blue

Quad VCA
- 4/MIX = Long Blue

Mix3
- Out = Short Black

TEMPI Parameters
- Mod Shift functionality is turned off (although not necessary as Shift takes the State Gate Input when both Shift and Run/Stop are enabled)
- Mod Run/Stop is set to Run/Stop mode (red) and Toggled (led 6 off), so that channels can be turned on and off externally by tapping Ears
MOD-Enabled Channels per State
1. 1, 2, 3, 4
2. 2, 4
3. 1, 3
4. 3, 4
5. 1, 2
6. 1, 4
7. 2, 3
8. 2, 3, 4
9. 3, 4, 1
10. 4, 1, 2
11. 1, 2, 3
12. 1
13. 2
14. 3
15. 4
16. none

EDITED Nov 18th 2018, 03:38

Do at least make sure you have some way of locking up clocks between Ableton and the modular, though. You'll find that to be extremely useful. Even so, I'd still consider some way to pass more than just a clock to the modular from Live; the fact that M4L is in there (depending on which version you're using) opens up massive possibilities for modular control that will definitely exceed human limitations.

Thanks to @PinPinKula, the deal for a Clouds was ok, the only flaw is a scratch on the panel, but functionality is ok....Maybe next time ask if the panel is in good condition...

Thanks for your answer.

In our case he didn't even reply. So we've contacted our bank to cancel the payment. Hope this will work.

EDITED Nov 15th 2018, 11:48

Just had a great transaction with @lucoli, great communication and shipment. Totally recommended!

Same problem here, except that he never answered. What did you find if I may ask ?
-- DarkEnergyLounge

I sent emails twice and could get the reply from him immediately. He told me that will ship the items soon with tracking numbers, but there was nothing from him. It was almost a week.

I will make a contact credit company next week.

Same problem here, except that he never answered. What did you find if I may ask ?

Great post Luigia.

Reading this 6 months ago before I dove in might just have deterred me, not that I have regrets per se. #5 hits hard.

Not gonna bother with most nobs right now, there's a recording I have on my phone for some of that. Rene is in harmonic minor key. Channel 4 is divided by 4. Could also be put on same tempo and/or put in Optomix strike instead of Echophon freeze. Tempi and Pressure Points both optional, latter is just for pressing and messing around with pitch.

Great post. Great post indeed.

Can I add a seventh comment:

7) Time. Like with any instrument, it takes time... a shitload of time to get good at it. Every module you add is another layer of complexity. In order to get the most out of your set-up, you'll have to dive DEEP into every module, even the simplistic ones. You'll have to create a TON of test patches to get a feel for different attributes. The more complex the module, the more time you'll invest. Even if you have years of experience with software synths or polyphonic synths, you're still going to have to put in a ton of work.

Ronin, no worries about the comments. I actually really appreciate the candor and am here precisely for the kinds of advice and info that you won't get from demo videos on a manufacturer's website.

I also should have noted that the goal isn't to use a hybrid DAW/Eurorack setup in the long run. Really the use of Ableton as a sequencer will be for early stages getting that knob wiggling time in and getting experience passing modulation CV around.

Thanks, again.