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You definitely need some envelopes. Consider at least a dual ADSR, or a module with multiple AD envelopes.
The Pluck is a bit redundant, as there is really nothing it can do that the Rings doesn't already do (unless you had in mind using two Karplus Strong type voices simultaneously but that would require more complex sequencing).
The Elements is capable of a wide palette of sounds not possible with standard VCO / VCF / VCA flow, but the resonator portion of it is already there in the Rings module. Unless you really want / need the odd sounds Elements can make...... you might find yourself just using the Rings for the resonator when not using it as a voice on its own.
I'm sure more experienced people might have additional thoughts but those were the obvious observations to me.
I´m new here and to modulars, so please be patient with me :). Is there a way to "favorite" modules or even put them on separate lists, like for example in the thoman webshop or on amazon? Would be nice to have a few lists like "want to buy next" "look for these used" "filter modules" etc.
I understand the "my collection" list as an inventory of what you own and the best idea I had so far is building racks for that purpose or oversize the one I´m planning to build and put the options in the spare rows.
I'd like to ask for some opinions for my rack, specifically my choice for the next modules I am going to add.
My goal is to make music similar to lightbath, ann annie, r beny and the likes on youtube.
As for my rack, I am using a powered Doepfer case, the first two rows are the modules I currently own, the bottom row are the modules that I thought would be usefull to add next.
SMR: for textures and filtering, the sound on its own really struck me.
Batumi: I need an LFO, and a quad-LFO seems like a good choice for additional modulation.
Ripples: as a dedicated filter besides the SMR. Other choices are Three Sisters and Belgrad.
Rings: I know, it's somewhat of a cliche by now, but I really like the sound. Contemplating to let Elements go over this.
STO: additional voice besides Plaits, but I am unsure if I really need this, since Plaits/Rings/Pluck/SMR/Elements are lots of voices already
What other modules do I need? I am thinking modulation, maybe an envelope like the Zadar/Maths/Tides/Stages? A uO_c is also in consideration for its sequencing/quantizing/randomization capabilities.
I also have a Strymon BigSky and a Delay pedal, so I am going to be using those for effects first, although a 4MS DLD is something that I am thinking about down the road.
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven,having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old"
All track has been performed with Eurorack Modular Synthesizer built based on Make Noise Shared System except for the cello part (Cinesamples Tina Guo Acoustic Cello Legato VST)
Video are made by original deepweb footages and extract of Stephen Sommers Van Helsing movie edited by mebitek.
A DARK MODULAR TALE EP:
two tracks for about 20 minutes long dark modular experience.
01 - Never Forgive (Poughkeepsie Tape) - 06:32
02 - A Dark Modular Tale - 11:44
comments, critics and suggestions are very welcome
best regards from Sardinia
Electronic music/video producer and composer.
Dark Ambient Cinematic atmospheres from Sardinia.
Thanks again. You have been very helpful and now I have a much better idea what to do. First examine the Minibrute and then buy modules one-at-a-time and learn them before next buy.
Several of the modules you recomended are new for me and they looks very interesting.
Looks good. But the smaller you build a Eurorack system, the less advantage it has over a synth-voice or semi-modular synth. Compared to a semi-modular, it's a lot more expensive for the same or less potent feature-set.
Maybe I have to learn the Minibrute in depth before I even start building the rack?
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. :)
The more you can get out of the MiniBrute (as far as knowledge), the better shape you'll be in when selecting and incorporating external modules. You can also think of it this way as well: the money you'd spend now and regret can be added to what you'd spend upgrading your set-up along the way. So a budget of $2000 today might be $3000 a six months/a year from now when you have more knowledge and developed some preferences. Don't be afraid to get into Eurorack. But temper your enthusiasm to avoid costly, early mistakes.
Edit: the Koma is nice... you can also add another semi-modular synth like a Behringer Neutron for like $300 and use its features as a Eurorack toolkit... extra ADSRs, extra filter, slew rate limiter, sample and hold, etc. Also, no need to buy a powered case. So for $300 along with the MiniBrute you've got enough kit to do a lot of amazing stuff.
Thanks. Now I think I understand more and more. My goal is a system suited for ambient/generative music and I guess it can be hard to fix that with only a few modules. But I have to start slowly as you recomended in your previous post. Maybe I have to learn the Minibrute in depht before I even start building the rack?
It's hard to give advice as to what to get as an essential module. That's going to depend mostly on what you want to do with your set-up.
But let's look at the Minibrute. It has a sequencer, envelopes, filters, oscillators. However, it's lacking in effects. Effects aren't as sexy as an uber-VCO. But they are the most underrated part of synth sound design. The Koma Field Kit FX would be the first thing I look at. I don't own one. But if I had a MiniBrute, it's looks like a great pairing for under 300Euros. https://koma-elektronik.com/?product=field-kit-fx-modular-multi-effects-processor
It's a standalone box and won't eat into your Eurorack case. Plus you'll get use out of it beyond your basic set-up. You can still add other effects like a Clouds, dedicated reverb, high-end delays, etc. to your actual case and they will all integrate together.
The next modules I would purchase would be some multi-function modules. Think of them as a tasting flight for dedicated modules. The Ornaments & Crime and Temps Utile are my two favorites. Between the two, you get a TON of useful features for additional sequencing, envelopes, quantizing, Euclidean patterns, clock multiplying/dividing, LFOs, etc. You can also add an Expert Sleepers Disting for under 200Euros. The Disting has a lot of features but can be maddening to work with the interface.
The O&C, T_U, and Disting sum up to 18 Eurorack spaces... so they are going to fit into almost any starter system.
Maths or the Befaco Rampage are great. At a minimum they bother offer two slew limiters. But they both can do so much more. However either module takes up quite a bit of HP for their functionality.
I own Ornaments & Crime, Temps Utile, Maths, a clone of Clouds (the Monsoon), and the Disting just for reference.
I bought an Intellijel 7U 104HP case. No regrets there. They come with a nice sized aluminum lid (the chassis is aluminum also). It's not as rugged as a true ATA case. But it should protect the unit from the majority of road damage. I wouldn't check your synth but bring it as carry-on luggage. It's a musical instrument so there are rules governing it in an airplane cabin. Granted, a briefcase sized device with a bunch of wires hanging out of it tends get a lot of second looks. I was detained in Frankfurt for bringing a Launchpad through security. In Vegas... no worries.
Yep. A few more revisions and some wiggle time and you'll be in the right place to get to where you want to be.
Thanks for your advice that seems to be very helpful.
I have spent some time with Patch&Tweak but there is a lot I do not really understand.
Tomorrow I go to Berlin and Superbooth for inspiration :-)
Hope to get some ideas.
What would be your advice for my Minibrute 2s rack if you only can chose 4 or 5 modules to start with?
Looks like a good small starter rack to me, except, you may want some sort of output for the system for listening reasons. Unless you have an external mixer like a Bastl Dude.
You're wanting to use your Eurorack live. This means critically evaluating each and every module and how you will relate to it in a live situation. Modules with a lot of deep menu diving or combination button presses to access that "one mode" are pretty shitty to deal with live... and/or remember all the secret tweaks too. On top of that, you have to learn how to get around fluidly in Eurorack. I noticed your background in studio work. I've spent a few hours under an Otari 2" setting up tape as well. So at least you understand signal flow and gain staging. :)
-- Ronin1973
Originally I was planning to build something for my office/home studio....thinking about it more...something for live use too makes so much sense!! Thank you so much for your feedback, this gives me a lot of ideas and concepts to work with. Probably going to do another revision where I scale it down to just get guitar with inputs and outputs going with the delay and some kind of modulation....this would also give me the ability to feed in things like field recordings (or an input for my drum machine).
Any advice on a eurorack case that is an ATA flight case, or is it more just buy one with the right rails, drop in a uZeus for power, a row for the power connectors....and rock n roll? Starting to think I will build this purpose specific in an ATA style eurorack case...and then later on if I still want to I can buy a bigger case of some kind that would sit on my desk at home (or a medium sized tabletop case)
Build a stand-alone Eurorack synth first. I know it's tempting to build exactly what you want first. But there are a couple of caveats.
You're wanting to use your Eurorack live. This means critically evaluating each and every module and how you will relate to it in a live situation. Modules with a lot of deep menu diving or combination button presses to access that "one mode" are pretty shitty to deal with live... and/or remember all the secret tweaks too. On top of that, you have to learn how to get around fluidly in Eurorack. I noticed your background in studio work. I've spent a few hours under an Otari 2" setting up tape as well. So at least you understand signal flow and gain staging. :)
The other aspect is that this... is... Sparta. I mean Eurorack... this is Eurorack. So the vast majority of your work exists as an instant in time and there's no way to recall it exactly. A lot of the magic in Eurorack happens within about 1-2 millimeters of knob wiggle. So how will you set-up and incorporate this flurry of knobs and cables before and during a show? It's going to be a bit more serious than a collection of guitar pedals and a pedal board. So is Eurorack the best solution for outboard gear for your guitar centered performance?
I'd put in a few more revisions to your rack and then pair down what you want with what you need at a bare minimum to get started. Add the other modules later as you're more comfortable with what you have. Once you've had some experience and feel confident, you'll then have to evaluate what modules will work for you live... but only you can determine that as everyone is different.
Don't be discouraged. I'm not trying to rain on your parade but help you get from A->B minimizing your disappointments and losing money on stuff that doesn't work for you in the long term.
Kudos for the first attempt. I just got my copy of Patch & Tweak today. The shrink wrap is still on it. I'm going to read it cover to cover. I think you definitely want to do that too.
Lugia suggested more time in VCV Rack. I second that. You're about to spend thousands of dollars on gear and judging by your first attempt, you're not going to be all that satisfied. That's not a judgment or criticism of you, just how much value I can see you getting from what you're going to spend in time and money.
When in VCV rack, learn how to use the Clouds module. It's popular for creating ambiences. Is it necessary? No. But it's great for creating very interesting and evolving timbres. While in VCV rack, you might want to look at modules that are logic based. You can find pure logic modules (AND, OR, NOR, NAND, etc) and there are modules with logic as a function like the Rampage by Befaco. Hardware sequencers, even though you have one in the Brute, are very handy for controlling CV and gates for more than note pitch and triggering volume envelopes.
The bottom line is that I'm thinking you need a little more experience and knowledge before spending your hard earned money on Eurorack. I have only one module that's been pulled out and put away costing me $160US. There's another module that I rarely use that cost me $184. So I'm out $350 and consider myself lucky. I studied a lot of modules and spent a lot of time in VCV Rack, and ordered everything in stages. Along the way I made TONS of revisions after using the modules and gaining more experience.
Hope there's some useful advice above and I sincerely hope you get a system that meets and exceeds your needs. Keep posting and don't get discouraged. A few more revisions and you'll have something tasty sketched out.
First, rackspace (HP) is expensive. If it's your first rack, you have the problem of trying to put together a core system that HAS to fit in your first rack. 1HP over and you're sh.. out of luck.
If you buy a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense for your initial build you either have to take a loss selling redundant modules, stash them in the closet for later, or buy a bigger (or second) case.
So with that, let's start beating up on your rack. :)
First of all the Doepfer A-180-9 you won't need. You only have one rack. This module is great if you have a large set-up and patching from one case to another is a bit far. Right now, you don't need it. Get rid of it.
Second, the Doepfer Wasp filter. It goes for around $100 and has a specific sound. Have you heard it and you know it's the filter for you? Don't go cheap on your first filter. A more robust multi-mode filter is the way to go. The Intellijel Morgasmatron will serve you well as a first filter. In fact, it has TWO filters in it that can function in parallel, series, or independently. There are a few other nice bits about it and it has tons of modulation.
LFOs. You have two, a Doepfer and a 2HP unit. Both are pretty basic. Together they are 10HP. It's more expensive than both modules combined, but the Xaoc Butami has FOUR LFOs built in it. Spend the extra $60 and get the 3HP Poti expander. It's not absolutely necessary. But pulling the module and changing the jumpers is a real pain in the ass.
The Blue Lantern Level Fixit is fine. But since you're in a small case, I would replace it with a Zlob 6 channel VCA. A VCA will do the same job as the attenuator if used manually. But then you also have CV control of that attention. More expensive. But you can never have enough VCAs.
You'll need to buy a spring reverb tank to go with your spring reverb module. I would wait on adding a spring reverb unless it's something you really, really want now. You can always leave a space for it if you're not absolutely certain.
All of the Mutable Instruments modules are available as micro-version clones. If you find Michigan Synth Works in the module section, I believe they have all if not most of those modules in a much smaller form factor. MI doesn't make Clouds anymore so you either be buy a used Clouds or buying a clone. Check out the Monsoon version as it has more CV control than the original module.
Get a bigger case. No one likes shelling out money on a case. It doesn't make a sound unless you drop it. But for a first case, buy as big as you can afford. The resell value is better (because everyone who bought too small now needs a bigger case). You'll also be able to expand your system when you find a new module that you really need. I say need because Eurorack is addictive and your credit card will be calling your name in the middle of the night for that killer module.
Don't buy anything yet, in my opinion. You probably need at least two revisions to this rack before you populate it. When you do, be sure you have lots of extra space for future expansion. Keep posting updates here and we'll get you a first iteration that's usable and doesn't waste your money.
Now I have made some modifications on my Generative/Ambient rack.
I really want chords (Harmonaig) so I have added two VCO to Minibrutes two.
Hope that Maths and A-148 gives the randomnes.
If rackspace isn't a consideration, you'll probably be better off with a Doepfer quad A-143-2 ADSR or the equivalent.
The price is less than the Zadar. The Zadar also has an expansion unit that just came out. I'm not sure of the name. I wouldn't undervalue the immediacy of having a traditional ADSR at hand. Having to menu dive the Zadar might impinge on your workflow. ADSRs aren't typically set-n-forget and I'm always tweaking them to get to the magical sweet-spot. It all comes down to you and what works best for you. It wouldn't work for me. But I'd love a Zadar to expand my capabilities.
Just be careful with levels: modular signals are really hot and you might need to attenuate them down to a level your mixer can handle. My Behringer handles modular levels tho...
Keystep is probably the cheapest sequencing option
Rather than planning it all out in advance, the best strat is often to get something like a 0-coast and a key step and then think about what you want to do that you cant do with that. You'll otherwise spend hours trying to pick modules based not on what you do need but on what you think you need.
Alternatively, get a key step and something like plaits (lots of tones with a built in vca), maths (envelopes, lfos, utilities) and warps (with parasites installed). Then worry about what else to get later -- e.g. if you always use the delay in Warps, get a delay...
I’d suggest steering clear of the micro Marbles. The urge to go as small as possible to save space is understandable, but some modules lose more in playability through miniaturization than you gain from having the extra space. Marbles is a lot of fun to tweak, but those tiny knobs would very much restrict its playability IMO.
-- Skreetis
Ahhhh a very good point Skreetis thanks! You are right, from what I have seen so far, Marbles is all about tweaking...so those tiny knobs may get annoying after awhile. I guess Marbles and Elements may be going then :) and if I really want them later someday, I could get the full size versions and put them together in a smaller tabletop case/skiff of some kind.
A further reduction of MI style clone modules does free up space for other ideas, and the elements clone does take up 18hp... Something to think about for sure as I have those modules in VCV Rack....
For guitars it's....yah a kind of psychedelic/jazz/blues/ambient kind of thing.
Cool modules to explore! I think the Plague Bearer and Brainseed would fit nicely for the kinds of things I wanna do. Not so sure about the SSM but I will watch some more youtube videos, thanks again!
I’d suggest steering clear of the micro Marbles. The urge to go as small as possible to save space is understandable, but some modules lose more in playability through miniaturization than you gain from having the extra space. Marbles is a lot of fun to tweak, but those tiny knobs would very much restrict its playability IMO.
I am also new, however, the first thing I notice is the amount of space the Hermod sequencer takes up in such a small case. This could easily be solved by buying a bit of a bigger case, or moving the Hermod to a separate tabletop case...maybe the 4ms Pod case
I also see two different reverb units. Just starting out, I would say pick 1 of the 2.
This would then free up/create more space for another VCO to have more wave forms, another VCA, or modulation source of some kind. An envelope module would also be something to think about, a clock divider, or a utility module...such as something for logic or maybe a switch.
After watching countless YouTube videos and doing research on my own about modular Eurorack systems, the idea of building a modular system as an addition to my workflow is starting to feel very appealing and I would love some feedback about my current idea that I plan to build up slowly so I can learn one section at a time of the larger/finished project.
For a bit of background...I play guitar, have worked in studios as an engineer (both analog 2" tape and digital with various DAW systems), and in terms of electronic music creation I have mostly worked with a combination of hardware synths and software (Ableton/Reason/Logic/Motu). I guess you could say I am older than only some dirt? ha! Anyways...after a long day of work, yet more staring at a screen has become less appealing, so a Eurorack that I could plug my guitar into and loop/delay along side some percussion and other sounds sources/non-traditional sequencing/modulation sources seems fun.
For guitar/instrument input, I have both Merge and MI Ears added to this rack. I like the idea of having 2 input sources (jam with a friend? Guitar + Roland 606?...contact mic into the Ears module? lots of possibilities with pedals!). Still debating between Pams Workout as a clock, or if I would switch this out and change things to fit a few pieces from 4ms like the rotating clock divider. I don't mind menu diving, so Pams would not be a problem for me in this area (I have read some people dislike Pams because of the menu diving). I also have an interest in alternative sequencing methods, so there is the Rebel Tech Stoicheia for Euclidean rhythms and Rebel Tech Tonic for its unique approach to pitch sequencing. For more of a "master control center", I have also been pondering the idea of a Pioneer DJ Squid to have some trigger pads/step sequencing/groove options/etc...
To save space, I do have clones of Marbles, Rings, and Elements in here so that the Magneto delay and Make Noise Morphagene would fit. If there is a key idea I am missing please let me know as I could see an alternative where the Make Noise module is in a self contained 4ms pod case or something like that. Then, I can fit a different module or two in the main rack....or if the clones don't play nice with the other children, the regular Mutable modules in a separate smaller rack could be an idea. Overall thoughts on the MI clone modules would be very welcome!
I also feel like I don't have enough VCAs, so I am open to re-arranging things in this area :) Another key area I am trying to figure out is what to do for getting audio samples into the rack (to then mangle with Morphagene and Magneto). I do a lot of sound design/soundscapes with my field recorder, so it would be nice to modulate those sounds. I am thinking the Audio I/O and just run the field recorder outputs into the modular that way...maybe some kind of sd card wav player would be a better idea?
Hello! I'm super new but very interested in building my first Eurorack for ambient/drone type of music. I'm doing some homework on this instrument but I'm looking for feedback. What do you think?
Thank you very much for taking your time helping me.
I will carefully evaluate your suggestions.
I thought that the Minibrute 2s provided both modulation sources and some kind of randomnes to start with.
The idea with Disting is to test all the different algoritms and than decide what kind of dedicated modules I need.
I actually think the Zadar is fine as a main ADSR, especially after the firmware update to 2.0 that lets you set a sustain point (so it is useable as ADSR rather than just AR). It is not the most immediately playable module though, and it does require some menu diving to use. But once you get into the menus, it has some fun envelopes that are difficult to generate otherwise, and it is very flexible (e.g., it lets you adjust envelope level which can be very useful, and which is not common for envelope generators).
Sewastopol II is fine as an I/O interface. The input has enormous gain, and it is really shines when amplifying very weak signals. E.g., when sending a passive electric bass into it, I only turn the input gain to 2-3 (out of 10). For line-level signals, the input gain is set well below 1, which can be a bit fiddly to dial in. The output gain is also solid, and I use it regularly to drive full-size headphones (this is not a documented feature, so YMMV). Third, it is an expensive and full-featured module, with a complex envelope follower and gate extractor. If you need that, it is great. If all you want to do is to send line-level signals in and out of you modular, something simpler may be easier to work with. One simpler module is Veils by Mutable Instruments. It is a 4x VCA with sufficient gain to bring line-level to modular level. Another module that many people recommend for line-level I/O duty (but that I have never used) is the Gozinta.
First up, your build's got some problems. That A-135-1 is outside the span of the rails. Plus, if this is a 3U Rackbrute cab, you need to put the Arturia power supply in there because you'll lose 5 hp from that necessary module.
Once those are corrected, my first suggestion would be to move to a 6U Rackbrute, at least while you're sorting out things on MG. Not only is it a good idea to "build big" then pare things down, generative music tends to require quite a bit more than you have here. For example, there's NO modulation sources here (Disting notwithstanding)...and modulation sources are essential to creating the internal variation that generative composition requires to sound effective. I also don't see anything that would deal with variations in timing, such as trigger/gate delays, logic, randomization. There's no random signal source (also pretty necessary in generative music).
My suggestion, ultimately, is that you should probably try and explore generative patch architecture before you jump into the cash outlay on a physical modular. If you haven't already, download a copy of VCV Rack (at https://vcvrack.com/) and load it up with all the free module packs. Then start in there...NOT with a physical device, at least, not until you've got a clearer picture of what a self-regulating generative patch requires in terms of hardware to make it work. Trying to create something of this sort without some adequate research will probably only result in an expensive device that generates more frustration than music. Then bring what you've learned back over to MG, whip up a 6U Rackbrute, and start.
I have the Zadar, it is best to use as a more complex modulation source then a main envelope,
if you need an adsr for amp or filter, this is not really the field where this one shines...
This is a rack I've been developing as a companion instrument to my upright bass. The upright bass is my primary instrument but I am really interested in making noise/drone/ambient music (depending on who I am playing with or the situation). The goal is to have this by my side and play my upright while making minor adjustments to the rack and then at some point later in the performance be able to set the bass down and play the synth exclusively (if I want to).
Run the bass through the 2hp filter, into the disting using the signal to pitch CV function, and then sending that into the v/oct for Plaits. Also, use Maths as an envelope follower of the bass signal and send the output in to the level input of Plaits.
Use the Pressure Points (and the foot interface) to change various states in the synth of a drone patch while I improvise melody lines on the upright.
Use the wogglebug and Rene to generate events that I will improvise over.
Any advice on my rack would be greatly appreciated!
I’m making drone/ambient music, and that’s what I want from my upcoming eurorack setup. These are the ones I’m quite confident about buying:
Maths
Plaits
Rings
A-130 VCA
Please tell me if it sounds horrible or is missing something essential. I’ve been practising on VCV Rack with just Plaits and Rings, and I think they sound good together.
It's a good strategy to try and make what you've got work for you while you're getting familiar with your modules.
I've fallen back in love with my Temps Utile module and have a regrowing fondness for the Ornaments & Crime module. As my own personal experience and knowledge grows in Eurorack, I'm rediscovering the power of these modules. I think you will find that modules that you're initially less-than-excited about take on new-to-you functionality later on.
I have about 25 years as a professional audio engineer. I'm about a year into Eurorack with two 104HP Intellijel 7U cases full of modules and a third 104HP 4U case under consideration. Meaning that I'll buy it when I'm feeling less guilty about what I've spent thus far... Eurocrack is making me itch. :)
I have four main oscillator modules, three filter modules, and the rest is mostly modulation and effects. Here's my rack. If you have any questions regarding some of my choices or the purpose of a module in my set-up, feel free to ask. It'll be awesome to see where you are a year from now too!
I’m new to modular and planning my first Eurorack. My goal is a system suited for ambient/generative music. I have watched the Youtube videos and read the exellent book Patch&Tweak but I need advices.
My base is an Arturia Minibrute 2S that I will extend with a Eurorack.
What I plan is this rack:
Now I need to know if this can be a good beginning.
What modules can I skip and what others do I need?
I would be very grateful for some help.
Kind regards,
Jan Melin
Oh.. toen ik er na zocht kwam ik alleen de zwarte versie tegen. Gezien ik de zilveren heb gekocht wilde ik deze graag op MG. Of is de zilveren er al?
Ik zal even zoeken.
Zodra er een foto van de final panel is kan deze natuurlijk vervangrn worden. Of ik moet ook hier even beter zoeken.
Groetjes, Yonga
