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Lugia, Sacguy71, how many channels are you needing to handle for recording / mixing?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm surprised to see a discussion of large-format desks. My understanding was these are really only called for in large / professional studios.

I took some good mix & mastering certificate training recently. Everybody involved (myself, the teacher-engineer, and the other students) were all basically using "hybrid" (digital + analogue) rigs consisting of: DAW of choice, interface of choice, select external hardware (incl. analog summing for me) and select control surfaces. RE control surfaces, for me a Softube Console1 and Faderport1 work great: good build quality and hands on control, great DAW integration, enough channels (especially by setting up with stem or group mixing).

So I'm surprised you would opt for a big console vs. a hybrid setup. Am I totally not understanding your intended use case(s)? Do you want / need a ton of analog mix channels?

That said, IF I saw a desk like Lugia found, with big functionality, pedigree and in great condition, and IF I had the space for it and wasn't concerned about the huge weight (which I am), then I would be tempted to get one!

Thought I'd ask about your mixing use cases and suggest a "hybrid" mix setup for those with smaller space / budget etc.

I checked the other half too before posting!
your hopes are unfounded Lugia!

hi all,

this is my actual physical rack - 5 cases - plus a case I need to build - to hold the DIY backlog and some other modules I want - really only needs power before I build it - I'm ordering the power this week!

over time modules have more or less been added wherever was free or where they got the best power (video modules) and it's a bit of a mess so as I add the 6th case, it feels like time to rearrange it

I'm not looking to add any more modules or swap out anything at all at the moment - although I can always see applications for more utilities, envelope generators and video modules, maybe even a couple more filters (I can fill the next case too) - so whilst suggestions are welcome this thread is primarily about re-arrangement

If any one who can is up for the challenge, please have a go at rearranging

a bit of further explanation (it might help)

the black blind panels and big gaps etc are meant to divide it into the 5 soon to be 6 actual physical racks that I have

upside down modules are either DIY backlog (mutable, blue lantern, synthonie) or to be purchased over the next few months (magneto, chromagnon, crossfader, deckard's voice, optomix, doepfer matrix mixer) - but for the purposes of this can be taken as in the case

the left 2 racks are 9u/104hp DIY case and a mantis - they are primarily video modules with a few analog utilities

the middle 2 racks are a 9u/104hp DIY case and a 6u/72hp bastl case - the bastl case will serve as an audio pull out - so this could be built as a separate instrument - hence the tm/tune/mixer with headphones etc

the right 2 racks are both 9u/84hp DIY - one of these rack is not built yet - but will be soon!

actual case arrangement is similar although the 2 84hp cases will be side by side, instead of on top of one another

the 84hp racks are in front of the tv and the other racks are to the left, the top 2 are on guitar stands

there is some scope to move the cases about a bit - I'm thinking of swapping the left and middle cases around - but then it would be mean that patching the audio modules over the video case - I could try to move the video modules to the 84hp cases but I've not looked into that for power reasons - I don't think there are any easy/optimum solutions:

for example a lot of the issues could be solved easily by having the 2 of the 9u case horizontally in front of the other 9u (where the 6u are now), but then I think it would be difficult to reach the ones on the guitar stands - and I would probably have to kneel - these cases are on the floor - but it would mean that a lot of the video modules would be straight in front of the TV

all the DIY cases have a befaco excalibus 1.2A +/-ve 12v (not sure what 5V is but overall 5v is negligible) the 104hp also have a frequency central psu in them, which is a further 500mA on +/-ve 12v rails

mantis is 3A +ve, 1.1A(?) -ve and something on the 5v

the bastl is 1.5A +ve, 0,5A -ve and I think it also has some 5v

modules that are in the video path are constrained to the mantis and the befaco power supplies (which seem clean enough)

chromagnon is to be powered externally and may get moved outside the case in the future (as it has it's own case - like a mom32) but it is better in the rack if possible

TL/DR

here is my audio/video modular - it is messy and needs re-arranging - please re-arrange, offer suggestions etc as you see fit - I think I need more envelope generators, utilities and video modules - but that is for sometime in the future

Jim's spot-on. The other half of this build had better be stuffed with nothing but mixers, attenuverters, VCAs, timing modules, etc etc etc...otherwise, all you're making here is a VERY expensive noisemaker, certainly NOT a musical instrument.

I'm a fan of small focused cases, knowing the limitations. Looking at yours it's hard to argue with some attenuators but I can see a few other routes too:

1) add a 2HP Clock Divider and a 2HP Sample and Hold, this lets you add changes that sustain over longer durations and that add a bit of structure if they are impactful enough
2) add a filter of some sort that fits in 4HP, IMHO filters are close to the funnest part of eurorack and a good analog filter always sounds great with a digital oscillator
3) pivot and get a 62HP Intellijel palette, more expensive but the extra HP would go a long way here and you could do all of the above, including attenuators pretty easily.

Listening now, great stuff as always @mowse.

Hi Jim, thank you for your in-depth thoughts!

So, first of all yes, I already own some of those! I own the Plaits, the O&C and the Monsoon. At the moment I have a 84hp 3U cre8audio Nifty Case, but it's almost full and hopefully I'm gonna upgrade it to a nice 104hp 6U Tiptop Mantis case very soon!
So, why the Pico Case? Well... it's mainly for "organisational" reasons with my other gear. I make ambient music and I'm really happy with my Synthstrom Deluge as the core for my system... modular is also nice for ambient sounds, but I find it a bit unplayable in a live situation. I use my modular to sample sounds and then I arrange them with my Deluge, or i prepare cassette loops... but I'm not really able to play it live, too many cables and patching, it's very unpredictable, requires tuning and you never really get the same results.

So, since I still love eurorack and I like to keep things minimal, I decided to make a really small system with a limited range of features I can easily tweak live. I got some really cool results modulating Plaits' harmonic in chord mode and Monsoon's pitch and density with my Marbles, so it's something I already kind of tried... I planned this system with the idea of creating some easy-to-make generative polyphonic ambience while I play my Deluge and the other stuff.

So the modules I was planning to get are the Doepfer LFO and the utilities (which are missing in my bigger case too haha). I thought that having 4 LFOs could be nice to make slow, constant variations on Plaits and Clouds with the off-phase thing. Marbles is a bit too on the "step" side, and it's also bigger. But maybe the Doepfer one is too limited, and I shoud consider something more complex... Batumi maybe?

I totally overlooked the VCA depth!! Haha sorry for this, usually I'm very careful to depth and power specs when I plan my racks XD
So I could remove it and put in something like the ALM Tangle Quartet! Four VCAs in 8hp, it fits perfectly, and I would also get the two additional VCAs.

O&C - yes, I was thinking of installing the Hemispheres for that exact reason! To use it more like a swiss army module than a quantizer on steroids. But - speaking of playability - it could be the wrong choice here (lots of menu diving).
I'll take a look at the 2hp modules you suggested me! Somehow I have to rearrange this.

Thank you so much!

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 20:18

way way too many sound generators not enough of anything and everything else

imo

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

with at least 20% of the case for modulation and 30% for utilities

is always going to get better and more interesting results than anything else

in smaller cases probably even more utilities are actually needed (and are almost never there)

there are reasons why we usually suggest 1 voice per row, not 5!!!

please read the first post of this thread (on muffwiggler) https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245154

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 19:22

fill the case with utilities and maybe a bit more modulation (but not a lot)

specifically utilities for multiplying, modifying and merging modulation sources to create more complex ones

imo

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

with at least 20% of the case for modulation and 30% for utilities

is always going to get better and more interesting results than anything else

That's brilliant news!!!

both for you and others who want them and that they are going to keep making them

Hey guys,

I planned this minimal system for very specific generative music purposes.

I wanted to limit myself to this tiny 42hp case by Erica Synth.

Hi Traxy and welcome!

I hope you don't mind me asking, but why limit yourself to such a tiny case? especially for generative music, which often benefits from much, much more modulation, especially layers of changing modulation over time?

perhaps you could elaborate '"very specific" generative music purposes? so we know what you are talking about!

Have you actually bought any of this yet? or is this just a planned system?

I am assuming that it's a planned system - not actual (but if you do already own it then some of the below will still apply):

the really good news is that you have at least kind of got everything you need in there to make a basic patch and listen to it (on headphones or laptop speakers) but there are issues - not least that at least 1 the modules won't actually fit in the case! (according to MG and erica) - & yes you could get some m3 spacers - but talk of making the beauty case fugly!

I'm not convinced that the doepfer LFO will function exactly like you want it to (and would benefit from attenuators and of more vca channels) and I think you will be bored by it very quickly as your only modulation source

O&C - yes it's a great module and got a fuck load of functions, but remember that it can only do 1 thing 4 times at once (stock firmware) or 2 things twice at once (hemispheres) these are often functions that especially in a tiny case you are better served with a single channel of more of them - so you are taking up all or 1/2 the module constantly for generating v/oct - can't remember if it's quantized or not - if not that's the other side gone! and you probably only intend to use plaits as a v/oct controlled voice and then run it through clouds as an effect - instead of using clouds as sound source too... because you do not have enough mixer/vca channels to do this - so you only need 1 channel of v/oct not 2 - I'd possibly suggest the 2hp tm and tune - if you had the space and I thought they would fit in the case!

plaits is a great choice in such a minute case as not only does it have an on board modulation source - so you really only need to think about modulating clouds! - but it also has an onboard lpg (low pass gate) which is a combination of a vca and a filter - you only need to trigger it to get a nice decay envelope - so no need for envelopes (at least for now)

I just checked the depths of the modules and case - the erica case is only 40mm deep and definitely the vca (45mm) is too deep and there's no info on the depth of the beehive (may fit may not)

plus I would want more vcas at least 4 all for modulation - buy a load of stackcables and mult the modulation everywhere through the vcas - the vcas should at the very least be able to attenuate the input signal - clouds really benefits from attenuated modulation!!!

Personally I think that this system is not big enough to be an enjoyable synth over a long period of time - so the usual advice - and the advice I'm going to give now! - is go for a big case to start with and fill it with the modules you want AND the modules you need to get them to work properly, slowly over a decent period of time so that you can get to know them well and, often more importantly, spread the cost out over time - this also allows you to (at least to some extent) get the right case for the modules instead of trying to jam tiny unergonomic (unplayable in a lot of cases) and, often wrong, modules for you into a 'beauty case'

yes I know the youtube influencers make it look so cool with their beauty cases adjusting trim pots with tweezers and waviing their synths around in the air... but most of them have massive cases that you can't see on their videos, that they swap modules in and out of to make videos on (mostly because it's easier to film a beauty case than a big one)

And yes I know there are a lot of arguments for starting small, but, I've never seen one that didn't have a very persuasive and sensible counter-argument

If you haven't seen it please read this post on muffwiggler (at least the 1st post) https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245154

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 19:01

TBH, I had wanted to see if anyone had any info before reaching out. With the state of the world from COVID, I get scared for small manufacturers that I'll be reaching out to someone who is overwhelmed or worse.

But, I just did, and Rune got back to me super fast! Looks like there are more on the horizon, and the plan is to keep on making them. Pretty excited for that.

Anyone lucky enough to get their hands on one from the initial run?

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 18:24

Dear greetings to all! Here I am asking for your opinion after having enlarged my initial case and treasured your advice. First thing, do you like my system??
What next step for you? A complex vco? or what....
Thanks in advance!

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 20:21

have you tried contacting them? - there's a mail link in the middle of their home page

(DUPLICATE)

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 18:13

I've been looking for the past few months at all the usual haunts, but to no avail. Anyone in the know have details on this super useful module?

I don't have one but I'd love to get a Steve's MS-22
-- troux

Seen some demos, seems good for dirty and overdriven, but can it do anything else?

-- the-erc

It can also do clean sounds, but many people like the dirty stuff, hence why there's so many demos showing off that sound. If you want an example of the cleaner sounds, check out the sound sample that's part of Steve O'Hear's review

@sohear/review-steves-ms-22-a-eurorack-filter-by-threetom-modular-86cd2950e235" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@sohear/review-steves-ms-22-a-eurorack-filter-by-threetom-modular-86cd2950e235

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 15:19

This version has interresting patch notes. A lot of information in this muff thread.

-- defragmenteur

Wow, that's great! So is the thread. Thanks so much for pointing them out to me. Back to the drawing board!

The next half of my two part rack that I wish to build in the next year.
I absolutely fell in love with noise engineering stuff recently, as well as the Wogglebug and uBraids.
Should be a fun mixture of percussive sounds and analog crazy shit...

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 15:26

Hey guys,

I planned this minimal system for very specific generative music purposes.

I wanted to limit myself to this tiny 42hp case by Erica Synth.
Beehive (Plaits clone) mainly in chord mode (I'm considering a Rings clone too, but Plaits is maybe more versatile), Monsoon for granular processing and reverb, Doepfer A-145-4 quad LFO for slow off-phase modulation on several parameters (so that the LFOs never come perfectly back into sync with each other): the goal is to achieve Brian Eno-inspired generative ambient / drone stuff, like he did with tape loops. That's it, really straightforward.
Then Ornament Crime for additional modulation, cross-modulation, random, envelopes, basic sequencing and so on; I'm also controlling stuff with the Doepfer dual VCA. Clock comes from a square wave LFO. I'm considering flashing the Hemisphere firmware to have more options on the Ornament, but I'm not sure.

So, I have 4hp left: what should I add? I was thinking maybe of some kind of attenuators / attenuverters to have more control on the CV, aside of the VCAs... or maybe a filter? What do you think?
Thanks.

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 14:33

Thanks Garfield. Check out the new updated version of the recording. I thought the first version was a bit too high pitched, so I did a few more performance recordings of the very same patch, but with a lot of subtle differences including dropping an octave on the Mother 32, reducing the resonance on the QPAS, reducing the Maths controlled warble on the Mother 32, reduction of the level and repeats on the Mimeophon. Then I layered the multiple takes and have them slowly fading in and out over one main take. So in this version we have one main modular take, and two additional takes layered on top, and of course the birds. I pushed the birds up in the mix so you can now hear more of what they were doing. There's a lot more audible in this version. BTW - you'll hear some random clicks - those are birds landing on my feeder. :-)

Hi,
Faceplate with Cyclonix is the oldest version.
It runs the same firmware.

If the power consumption can be tallied in real time at the bottom of the rack, could it be possible to display a little window with the power specs to one side of each row? I know there's a way to see this on another page, but it would be helpful to not have to keep jumping back & forth between those pages.

Row title would be cool too, in the view described above AND/OR in the "show data" page.

I would say these feature requests ought to be Unicorn features.

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 18:04

Oh wow, that's a serious beauty that Soundcraft Five series. With 54 frames you mean 54 faders? That's a beast of a machine!

Misspoke...it's actually a 52 frame. This means, yep, 52 faders besides the center routing/master section...48 mono, 4 stereo.

Hold on... 400 lbs that's I guess getting close to 200 kilograms! That's a serious thing, did you hire a crane to first remove the roof of your house and then let the desk go down into your house or how did you manage to transport such a beast? I live in that kind of cheap build new houses where everything is built just at minimum specs to keep the house standing but that's it, I think if I would put somewhere a 200 kg mixer I think it goes through my ceilings ending up flatting my coffee table in the living room! ;-)

My house is fairly typical mid-century suburban construction, with the section the studio's in dating from 1971. This is about the end-point for codes standards that would let you put something like this in without eventual structural damage. Further on into the 1970s, structural codes started to get lax, so that by the 1980s you wouldn't DARE do something like this. Plus, the whole thing, plus the patchbays and the computer work surfaces are on a large, multi-part BenchPro Dewey setup that can hold 2 1/2 TONS per unit. It ain't goin' NOWHERE!

FYI, see here for BenchPro stuff. When I got mine, they still sold direct, but you can find their stuff here: https://www.gotopac.com/benchpro-workbenches

As for these sort of things not being around im Deutschland, check THIS out: ujAAAOSwJ5BeHEks" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mischpult-Allen-Head-ML-3000-832B-Kanal-Live-Mixer-mit-RPS-11/174154405138?hash=item288c695512ujAAAOSwJ5BeHEks It's in Baden-Baden, only EUR 1500. The Allen + Heath ML series was also in the running here for the upgrade, and while I was looking at the ML 5000, the 3000 is its little brother. And this thing is CHERRY...yeah, the deals are out there, just have to root thru the dross to find the GOLD.

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 02:36

Oh, speaking of Takaab, they dropped something last week (I think) that ought to be on your watchlist, greenfly...and that's their new VLH module. You get a ring mod, noise gen, and most germaine here, a 1 and 2 octave suboscillator...in a whopping 2 hp. As someone who really enjoys the suboscillator capabilities of certain Roland synths (SH-101 and MC-202 most notably), the ability to drop that bass in parallel to another higher line just drives crowds NUTS.

Hi Garfield,

Thanks for the comments and kind words.

Seems like it comes out of both channels when I record but it only comes out of the left channel once I finish and press play.
I'll look into fixing it for next time, did some research but couldn't find a proper solution.

TL

Hi TeenageLarvae,

Ha, ha, sounds to me like a radio that has been broken ;-)

By the way, I only hear your noises coming through the left channel, is that a wanted result? Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Lugia,

Oh wow, that's a serious beauty that Soundcraft Five series. With 54 frames you mean 54 faders? That's a beast of a machine! :-)

I just had a quick look here in Germany on eBay so far couldn't find much that's affordable, I found two serious large studio racks, used at about 18k Euro... not the prices you are talking about. Looks like there is a different market between the USA and Europe. Will check out further this week into this though.

Hold on... 400 lbs that's I guess getting close to 200 kilograms! That's a serious thing, did you hire a crane to first remove the roof of your house and then let the desk go down into your house or how did you manage to transport such a beast? I live in that kind of cheap build new houses where everything is built just at minimum specs to keep the house standing but that's it, I think if I would put somewhere a 200 kg mixer I think it goes through my ceilings ending up flatting my coffee table in the living room! ;-)

That Five mixer is just fantastic to look at, so I can imagine, or exactly I don't think I really can imagine, how fantastic that must be in usage, lovely! :-) Well done deal for S$ 1500! Have fun with it and I hope your floor can hold the weight ;-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Some simple more deliberate patching this time.

Used a stacking cable for the FM receiver which I jacked into the Cutoff for the Spectral Devastator and into the CV input of the Worm.
Worm went through the filter which was in it's turn is connected the ADDAC300.

The result is...unpleasant.

We don't have photos for all the panels but we'll work on getting some of the more popular ones up. Product photos are costly, so we may take a little while to knock them all out...but we're #workinonit :)

Guys and gals, I don't know how I lived without this little game-changer for so long. If you have multiple trigger sources and/or are programming techno drums on the fly, this is a must have. Cheap, small, passive... it's a no-brainer for me. This is exactly what I needed for a live rig. Highly recommended.

same for the black zularic repetitor I have!

I don't have a passive lpg - but I completely agree that they can replace vcas in some cases - mostly audio I would supect

still need vcas though - for modulating the modulation, non-filtered audio etc etc

Was actually wondering the same thing about the NE Ataraxic Translatron.
The empty panel looks so silly next to the rest of modules in my MG racks. Haha.

Great suggestion @brunomolteni, I love my Takaab LPGs.

Is there a way to upload a panel alternative with all the jacks and sliders present?
This module being manufactor approved makes it impossible at the moment, and the "empty" module looks wierd in a full rack.

you could kill two birds with one stone using passive LPGs instead of VCAs, if used for handling volume of different layers then LPG are great because you could potentially save on envelopes even, just send a trigger out of LL8 into the LPG voltage control and it should decay with a natural envelope, so you get vca + envelope in a tiny space, for example I bought a couple of takaab's LPG and they are 2hp for 2 LPGs, and it even comes with TONE control, so you can have longer or shorter decays... I've been using these since I got them and I love the sound of it.

Yes, learning the basics is in my roadmap, I'll check it out. Thanks!

a-116, a-136, a-137-1, a-137-2 are the ones I have

the maths illustrated guide is a collection of 32 self-patches for maths

this introduces patch programming of a single module (maths obviously) and will massively help in terms of how you think about patching overall - especially in terms of constructing complex functions from simple building blocks - this is a key skill for modular synthesis - which is why I always recommend maths as the first modulation source - even if you have lfos and envelope generators, mixers and attenuverters - get maths!!! there is nothing wrong with overlap of functionality, especially when it comes to modulation and utilities

matrix mixer:
mix copies of modulation sources to increase the number of modulation sources you have

feedback mixing - mix 3 inputs with an output - possibly filtering or otherwise modifying the output before mixing it back in

use to set up send/returns for effects - ie stereo signal in to 1 & 2 output of 1 & 2 to effect effect back into 3 & 4 inputs - mix 1 & 3 and 2 & 4 to outputs 3 & 4 (or similar with mono signals, more effects etc etc)

and whatever else you would use a mixer for...

the main disadvantage of the Doepfer Matrix Mixer is size (takes a lot of hp - 20!)

the main advantage of the Doefper Matrix Mixer is size (ergonomics)

Currently I have 3 matrix mixers - a pusherman, a york modular and a reverse landfill video matrix, I can see myself adding the doepfer, as well, at some point in the future!

VCAs - 2 for audio & 2 for modulation per voice - is a good starting point...

1 vca for basic note on/off
1 vca for overall volume - so you can bring the voice in/out
1 vca for modulation
1 vca for modulating the modulation
OR just 2 for modulation

not all voices will need 4 vcas, but some may need 10 - depemnding on hoow much modulation/modulation the modulation you do!

once you get into the technique of modulating modulation - you use a lot of vcas!!!!!

Veils is a great VCA - I don't have the new version but I do have 3 of the older version (I haven't counted, but I think I have over 40 vcas including those embedded in plaits, for example)

EDITED Mar 8th 2021, 15:38

This version has interresting patch notes. A lot of information in this muff thread.

EDITED Mar 8th 2021, 15:10

Thankyou Farkas, Lugia, troux, 33PO, Jim for the responses.

Ok so for VCA's, I am pretty set on the new veils, which gives me 4 of them ( is this a good choice?), The means with the two built into Braids and Plaits, I have 8 of them. ( Eudemonia and Behringer)... but honestly on the modulation front, I like doing all this kind of stuff in Bitwig and it's what I specifically bought the ES-8 for :)

FX Aid XL for fx which Lugia suggested to me before. It's leading me down the path of having the track pretty much ready on each channel with the only extra bit required being general mixing tasks in the DAW. I have a whole heap of UAD plugins and pretty much everything from Plugin Alliance as these serve me well on that front and is why I am inclined on wanting to carry on using these as I am competent with doing stuff inside DAWS.

I have the Quadrax on my wish list as again Lugia suggested this but on other threads I have seen Jim mention the illustrated manual for Maths an so bought that ( this was a good decision ) and although I said I don't want to know everything, I still need to know/understand the why a little bit better.

Jim- Which ones are the others please? I was including this one in my list A136, which I can get for £60. Lugia, I think the HP is putting me off on the Tip Top one and if I want to generate sub, the new BASS Mint plugin from Unfiltered Audio is excellent for this side. I also like the effect of wavefolding when its not extreme, so I think for the price and from what I have heard on demos, this A136 looks like it will be the one, but I'm curious about the other 3 Doepfer ones now. I have kinks and it's reading yours and Jim's posts that made me look into both of these so I'm glad I bought them.

Please someone tell me what I am able to do with a matrix mixer? ....and is the Doepfer one a good one to have? Again fairly inexpensive so I think I'd go for this.

I may have to park my drum rack and just use the Digitakt for this side which I'm enjoying. Parameter locks baby :)

EDITED Mar 8th 2021, 19:07

Many thanks for the above comments. In another forum someone has said I shouldn't be using a sequencer for a true Krell patch, which is probably true. I need to go back to Todd Barton's video tutorial and study it.

Thank you Garfield! Glad you enjoyed them. :)

Thank, guys!

I like all the doepfer wavefolders - I have all 4 - but I use them for video

They can be picked up very cheaply used - so are worth a try - even if you resell them

for audio I'd pick one of the other ones though - or a Befaco Chopping Kinky

I'd also want more basic utilities for modulation purposes - kinks and a matrix mixer would go a long way, possibly a sequential switch

EDITED Mar 8th 2021, 08:10

+1 for Bastl Waver

Yes @Lugia, the Random*Source Wave Multiplier is topnotch, big vote from me for that one.

I got a new desk last year...or rather, a new "vintage" desk: a 54-frame Soundcraft FIVE. Most people would tend to think this is a live desk, but the truth is that it ALSO makes for a fantastic studio console with a lot of flexible routing trickery...pair this with an ample patchbay setup, and you can go BONKERS on all of the AUX routing possibilities, the inserts on pretty much everything, the capabilities of the VCA groupings, and on and on...

But the kicker was the price: $1500. Why that cheap? Well...in live sound right now, there's a trend toward digital desks. They're lighter, easier to set up in a high-pressure live situation, and can store loads of settings. Great for live work, but kinda meh for studio. But the FIVE has epic amounts of analog knobs and such, not touchscreens and assignable controls that can get in the way in studio work. Yeah, sure...it weighs about 400 lbs (out of its road case...IN the road case, it's closer to 600), has a couple of big (albeit much quieter than I'd expected) power supplies (one is "hot", the other is normally in "standby" in case the other poops out, which is something you need for live work to keep from cancelling gigs), took TWO moving crews to get into my studio, and it requires a super-hefty stand to support its weight. Even with these hassles and what seem like shortcomings, though, this is probably the very best thing I've EVER mixed on...and that includes classic Sphere and Auditronics desks, Jeep Harned's Woodland Sound "arch-top" prototype, lots of more recent things (including a VERY hateful Yamaha automated desk as well as a very nice Neotek w/ "flying faders")...it even kicks the crap out of MTSU's venerable old Harrison quad desk, which I thought was killer UNTIL THIS.

As a result, I'd strongly suggest looking into some large-format live desks along the lines of the FIVE. Hell, you can find grand old pre-Uli Midas Heritage desks for under $5k if you really dig hard enough. F'rinstance, here's a 48-in Heritage 3000 for only $4k: https://reverb.com/item/38395868-midas-heritage-3000-2012-purple If you buy something like this, do make sure that it was properly taken care of; if it looks banged-up, knobs and fader caps missing, etc etc...give that a pass. But if you really dig hard on eBay, Reverb, and a few gear broker sites, and if you know the sort of configuration you need, you can make out like a bandit right now!

Well, on the waveshaper thing...I'm not quite so jazzed by the Doepfer stuff here. It's basic, inexpensive...but rather simplistic when compared to a lot of other possibilities. The Tiptop has the ability to throw two waveforms at each other via its dual inputs, plus you also get a suboscillator divider...this is similar to Antimatter's Crossfold, albeit considerably cheaper. Also, that new Intellijel Bifold is pretty attractive...it's similar to the Tiptop in some ways, but it offers a CVable crossfader to shift between timbres.

But don't neglect a few others if you can cram 'em in...most notably Random*Source's Eurorack clones of the Serge TWS and VCM, Dannysound's DIY clone of the Buchla 259's timbre section, Bastl's Waver which offers wavefolding AND VCO mixing, or Circuit Abbey's Gravity Well, which does what they refer to as "asymmetrical" wavefolding. Nice stuff...just depends on what space you've got plus which sort of "school of thought" you'd like to follow as far as the circuit's concerned.

wow, thanks. i have a lot of things to ponder now. i am definitely going to make some changes. i appreciate everyone's input and i think i have a much better idea about things now. I'll probably post again once i have a 'final' setup.