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well especially for performance I think I'd want function per module rather than a super disting!

and more utilities would work better for me - some switches and a matrix mixer - great ways of altering what modulation goes where for example

but if you are happy with it that's what counts

Thank you all so much for such great advice. I will pause on getting any newer modules and focus on a more balanced ratio. I can't express how grateful I am for the help!
-- marcomixtle

NP... glad we could help!

If I may applaud from the cheap seats, as someone still working my way through the newbie stage, Jim and Lugia's wisdom is mighty welcome. That priority/ratio model is a helpful guide.

It's good to feel appreciated - thanks!!!

I quickly discovered that the Synthesis Technology E370 needs a veritable army of modulation signals to live up to its full potential). I can't claim any intelligent foresight for this, but as a pleasant change, my ill-guided bumbling through life worked out rather nicely in this instance.

-- oldandintheway

there are a lot of modules out there (mostly shiny expensive ones) that really need a lot of modulation to get them to work best - often needing attenuation on the way in (clouds is a good example)

I don't think any of us can claim any form of intelligent foresight - it's just what we've picked up along the way - often from making those mistakes ourselves in the process

start with too small case - check
not enough modulation - check
not enough utilities - check

4, maybe 5 years later - experience in how to build modular synths that are worthwhile and usable - in my case both audio and video - and pretty much any size

Thank you all so much for such great advice. I will pause on getting any newer modules and focus on a more balanced ratio. I can't express how grateful I am for the help!

I don't have one but I'd love to get a Steve's MS-22
If you want an example of the cleaner sounds, check out the sound sample that's part of Steve O'Hear's review

-- tverscho

Yes it does sound very nice, thanks for the link. Also sold out at Three Tom. Guess I'll keep an eye on eBay...

-- the-erc

I think you'll have more success sending me an e-mail at info [at] threetom [dot] com instead of waiting for one to pop up on Ebay :). AFAIK, only one MS-22 has ever been offered on the second hand market in the past year ;).

This is my performance system I'm building. I often program in Max so the Daisy Patch is open to any kind of module (I have made compressors, fx, synths, drums, sequencers).

The idea is that I use the Clank Chaos for generative sequencing, driving most of the melodic stuff and a TR8s for all the drums.
All sounds are plugged into the ES-9 for further mixing via iPad running AUM with heaps of AUs.

That screaming you hear later tonight will be me.

If I may applaud from the cheap seats, as someone still working my way through the newbie stage, Jim and Lugia's wisdom is mighty welcome. That priority/ratio model is a helpful guide.

I meandered from 5U into euro and wound up with a hybrid rig in which the lower-functional-density 5U modules often serve as support players for the higher-density euro devices (e.g., I quickly discovered that the Synthesis Technology E370 needs a veritable army of modulation signals to live up to its full potential). I can't claim any intelligent foresight for this, but as a pleasant change, my ill-guided bumbling through life worked out rather nicely in this instance.

Awesome... thank you @jimHowell1970, I really appreciate and respect your comments and suggestions.

Yes, I’ll be sequencing from the Minibrute and listening via mixer outputting to a pair of powered monitors.

Thanks again.

Hey all,

I've started planning a case to supplement my Moog Mother-32/DFAM/Subharmonicon system. I'm thinking of getting a TipTop Mantis.

I think the ultimate goal would be for the system to function standalone as well, so in that vein I'm thinking I'll need the full signal chain from voicing to modulation to sequencing and some effects. After reading around, the advice I'm hearing is to start with the essentials and here's where I'm at:

For master clock and S&H there's Marbles
For the first voice there's Plaits
For utility there's Maths and then Links/Kinks/Shades and a mult
The filter is the Ikarie
First VCA is Veils
Microcell for some spaciness

If anybody has thoughts on this I'd love to hear, anything I'm missing for for routing to get the sound out or any limitations.

Also, I've been toying with 'the end goal' and I would want some additional voicing, sequencing w/ CV for pitch, additional LFOs, more modulation, several more VCAs, more mixing (including a matrix and I think a final mixer to pipe it all into my interface) and a nice delay/way to play with echoes and time (like maybe the Mimeophone or Beads).

To that end, I've also put together this rack below that I think includes all those elements:

If I'm connecting the dots right, this would cover all the bases for a standalone system with some flexibility, also keeping in mind I've got my semi modular system to supplement.

Appreciate everyone's time, feel free to critique or suggest alternatives!

Ahhh...didn't know the "normal" modules were already functioning at video voltage levels! Changes things a bit, although I still think my layout for those cabs works there. It puts the most obvious "hands-on" devices as the bottom "controller" row, all of the LZX stuff with similar control paradigms in the next, then all of the "normals" above that.

Also, those Seismic mults have a sneaky feature that allows you to break out the second mult set there; if you don't patch that, they can function as 1-in/7-out, which can be pretty useful for distributing control (non-scalar) signals to many destinations.

Gave me quite a bit to think about, also...one objective here within this decade is to implement a video synthesis studio as well, although that's going to have to go in a different room here.

Jim's spot-on, yet again...without the "boring" modules, the expensive stuff you have here can't operate to its fullest potential.

Synthesizers aren't just made up of things that make noises...you MUST have all of those utility and other sleepy-looking modules there, because without them, you have no way to directly influence modulation behavior over the other modules. If I were you, I wouldn't order or install ANY other modules at this point...instead, remove what you've NOT got on hand already, then try and rework the build to allow those. Otherwise, all you're building here is an expensive noisemaker...it won't have any of the nuance and controllability of a properly-implemented build.

The MG cat must remain forever. It haunts us, even in our dreams.

mostly looks good

you could drop either the sto or plaits - at least initially, although a simple analog vco and a digital vco are both nice to have

how are you going to play this? sequence from the minibruute?

how are you going to listen to it? via external mixer - NB if you are in an area of the world with unbalanced

I would replace the pico dsp with a fx aid xl - same chip - more options - more modulation inputs

be careful not to overdo it with sound sources and modifiers - I'd try to limit it to 2/3 voices in a case this size

I think:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation (about 20% of case/number of modules) < utilities (30% of case)

as I think it allows the most variety in patching

so maybe another modulation source would be a good addition - have a play with envelope generators and lfos and coombiiniing them with maths to make more complex modulation - remember to check out the maths illustrated manual - and work your way through it a few times - and keep going back to it every so often - it's a great primer for patching modular synths!

good start all round though!

well bigger case, fewer modules always seems to make more sense to me, but each to their own!

enjoy the VCA and Mult!

Hi Jim,

Wow, nice rack! I agree here a bit with Farkas, if you reach a certain size as well as complexity, and your rack size and complexity has reached that I would say, though Lugia took the fantastic effort to still give it a try :-) , then it becomes rather a personal taste how you like to (re-) arrange your modules. It looks fantastic though!

Thanks!

I also agree with Farkas!

I'd already made a start on re-arranging... moving the video modules (and the doepfer modules I run them through!!!) into 2 cases instead of being spread around 4... and the mixer into a better spot etc! and then I hit re-arranging the cases to be more practical... video will be in the middle and the 2 84hp cases will be side by side.. definitely not ideal - so I just hit a wall for a bit and thought someone might give me a bit of a push in a direction - thanks again @Lugia - I think the re-arrangements should be done over the weekend and the final case parts will be here within a couple of weeks

Can't we make your rack stickied on top of this rack forum for beginners? Saying, look, if you consider to start into modular synthesizers, this is about the minimum size to grow towards to otherwise it makes more sense to buy a ready synthesizer instead ;-)

hahaha.... not that bad an idea - maybe remove the video racks, though... don't want to scare them!

Thanks a lot for sharing this, very interesting and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

a pleasure!

also, the problem with ditching the Vnlcusrer VCA and Multiple and replacing the space with a Veils is that id use up all my space and have 13/14 slots filled in my bus cable. So I think ill stick with the Vnlcurser VCA and Buffered Mult just for utility purposes.

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 00:18

2 0f 2 is going to be my case that I build probably next year after I've assessed all my needs with my first skiff.
I do realize that I should have gotten a bigger case, but I was on a budget and just wanted something small to start out with seeing how this will be my first ever eurorack.
The cool thing about having a second 104hp skiff though is you can daisy chain 2 Row Power 45s together and I felt like that would be a better option for my wallet.

Hi. Been lurking for a while now. Ton of great info here, soaking up (drowning in) the knowledge. Have a Minibrute 2s & Drumbrute combo (with an external mixer plus a few guitar effects pedals on hand) and ready to take the deep dive into modular.

So, for your collective critique, my starter RackBrute 6U... Anything obviously awry or just plain stoopid?

Cheers

Hi Jim,

Wow, nice rack! I agree here a bit with Farkas, if you reach a certain size as well as complexity, and your rack size and complexity has reached that I would say, though Lugia took the fantastic effort to still give it a try :-) , then it becomes rather a personal taste how you like to (re-) arrange your modules. It looks fantastic though!

Can't we make your rack stickied on top of this rack forum for beginners? Saying, look, if you consider to start into modular synthesizers, this is about the minimum size to grow towards to otherwise it makes more sense to buy a ready synthesizer instead ;-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this, very interesting and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for all the responses!

I should mention that I'm specifically looking to be able to record in longer gate lengths via midi-cv conversion (or from within the eurorack sequencer itself like CV Key Rec Mode in the Eloquencer) for the use longer sustained envelopes where I'd like the gate length to be the amount of time that I've held a key or touch interface of some kind.

My problem currently with my Eloquencer, although I will be keeping it as it lends itself to results that I otherwise would not come up with is that I'd still like to be able to express a pattern that is in my head and the limit to gate lengths and number of steps is preventing me from doing so at the moment.

Has anyone encountered a similar situation? What did you end up doing, are there any sequencers in general, eurorack or other that will allow me to interact with my systems gates/envelopes etc in such a way?

I don't have one but I'd love to get a Steve's MS-22
If you want an example of the cleaner sounds, check out the sound sample that's part of Steve O'Hear's review

-- tverscho

Yes it does sound very nice, thanks for the link. Also sold out at Three Tom. Guess I'll keep an eye on eBay...

+1 one the Short Bus, especially in combination with Pamela's New Workout. I'm also using an ST Modular Switched, which is just a switched multiple. More often using it to send two sequences a few destinations, but it can also serve the wrong way round, just try not to have 2 sequences feeding the same bus at the same time!

I've had the Tetrapad for a while and I feel I'm probably under-using it. In particular the pressure has never been all that usable. I just got the Tete which might open a few doors!

I was on the fence about a matrix mixer, but you've really convinced me that it's just something I really need that can exponentially extend the possibilities. You are absolutely right, it would get boring quickly.

I've updated my rack with your recommendations and dropped QPAS and BAI.

Thanks - I try to help!

a good place to start:

mutable links, kinks, shades (or any other modules that cover their functionality) - multiples of this (or parts of it) are extremely useful - either as identical modules or different ones

a matrix mixer - one of the most powerful tools in the modular synthesist's toolbox - use them for combining modulation sources, setting up feedback loops, adding send return functionality to mixers without it etc etc etc

Great feedback! I will definitely focus on what support modules can help with what I have now. This makes sense.

looks like a fun rack to play with - but not a long term solution, at least for me...

too many voices/big shiny, expensive feature modules - not enough modulation or especially utilities (more variety of these needed to imo) more vcas is a good start - as is anything that can be used too mulltiply, modify and merge modulation

I prefer

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation (20%+ of the rack) < utilities (at least 30% of the rack)

because you can get much more variation that way

utilities are the inexpensive, dull polish that stop the expensive, shiny modules from tarnishing and makes them shine

personally I'd postpone the modules you think you want - until the next case - and get the modules you need to support the ones you've already got

EDITED Mar 11th 2021, 20:38

Giving anyone a reason to chuckle is a satisfying day's work, and it helped me recover from being traumatized by a demented stalker kitty :)

Another little 4hp module that is interactive and handy is the Acid Rain Switchblade. It's just three switches that you can either gate or manually switch with a button press, but I find myself using it all the time to switch between sequences on the fly. More useful than it looks.

Tetrapad + Tête is a super powerful controller combo, it can be configured in a number of different ways to control your rack, and it offers an internal sequencer, looper and configurable CV I/O. From what I can gather, TetraPad+Tête+Planar2 is even better, but too much for me ATM.

@oldandintheway this post made my day, that cat really is a jerk!! 🤣🤣

EDITED Mar 11th 2021, 18:20

Still missing some of the modules that are harder to find like QPAS, Panharmonioum, disting EX.

The next three modules I'll pick up are Noise Engineering BIA, Noise Engineering MI, Erica Synths Dual FX.

I have every other module already installed.

Any thoughts or ideas on this? The big candidate for replacement is the Doepfer A-143-2 Quad ADSR (I love this thing so much tho). Also with the remaining 3hp in the bottom, I was thinking of a 2hp VCA.

for a mute module i got one that is called Quiet,but havent used it yet.
also considering the Makrow Module

Thank you! I didn't realize that a rogue module had fallen out of my rack and out of view. (Aren't I the doofus for getting hissy about something that is actually a helpful feature. Bad me.)

And my post suffered from pre-coffee confusion...I upgraded to unicorn independently of losing my mind over an on-screen cat :)

so is this a single case or is it 1 of 2 - in which case - where's 2 of 2 - probably better to put them into a single case for planning!

definitely getting there though!!

one thing to watch with vcas - are they amplifiers or attenuators? check the max gain - if it is 1 then they are attenuators - a lot of them are like this - I prefer actual voltage controlled amplifiers, myself - useful for more things than attenuators - I would dump the intellijel buffered mult and get veils instead if it was me! I think you'll probably be fine with 4 vcas in this size case

yes - make your rack bigger than it actually is (an extra row at the bottom when editing) and never leave modules outside the rack

but you could have done that without being an unicorn!

great - thanks for the suggestions, guys!!!

@Lugia - HAHAHA Funny title!!! I'm going to take a copy - remove all the modules you added - and put my modules back in!!!

the Portland has a mixer already - but it's mono - and normally goes to through one of the lollipops before hitting the mixer - if I need panning of the individual drum sounds I can record them separately and do that in the DAW - output is effectively mono at the moment anyway - my studio monitors are in a different country - long story!!!

for more panning and mixing I'd be most likely just to add more channels of the tex-mix - they are inexpensive and have panning - I though about auto panning - but I can patch it if I want it!

as for the doepfer modules - they get video signals sent through constantly -

I don't think I need another scaler - adding the 1st 5:1 will take me up to 14 scalers - I think that's enough (at least for the foreseeable future) and there are quite a few attenuators through out the system (one of the switched is actually a bank of attenuators (pusherman is not up to date on modulargrid)

mults are a good idea - although I do have quite a few stackcables - but I'd always go for 2hp DIY ones - such as the frequency central mumu - they are inexpensive and can be built in 10-15 minutes or so

the 2 right hand side cases are looking very good though - as little movement as possible will happen there - going to swap the joystick to the far right though, as I'm right handed!

as I said I'll take a copy of Lugia's (excellent) attempt and try to cram the modules I actually own back in - will re-post in this thread once it's done! fingers crossed the power & screws (and also some of the new modules and components for the diy builds) for the last case get here before next weekend, so I can build it and then I can actually start moving modules about

once again thanks very much for your input!!! greatly appreciated!!

OK, I've upgraded to Unicorn status...can I have special powers to get that bloody cat off the corner of my screen? It's a distracting nuisance. Yes, I am easily distracted.

I tried an overlay/pop-up blocker in Chrome, but no luck. Is there a way to disable it? Please, I'm begging.

Cheers,

Farkas thanks gotta check them out.the joystick im thinking about getting is the erica synth black joystick 2,but gonna check if there is some cheaper with the same functionality

Thanks for sharing, I'm waiting on a Morphagene myself and this is very inspiring for the upcoming experiments !
I also love using Maths as a drone VCO, very cool tone control possibilities
-- toodee

Congratulations on the Morphagene! It takes up a lot of space in my tiny rack but I don't regret it. From my fledgling experience of modular, I believe you have many exciting sonic journeys ahead of you. If you'll allow me one word of advice... if you find you arrive at a point where the Morphagene is creating something incredible then record it! I've lost count of the times when I've stumbled upon a sweet spot, then tweak some more and never get it back! Happy trails...

hahah what's going on here :P this is like the "Reste Kiste" of stuff that's not fitting in the other and somehow a planning of a rack that makes sense in a way of this stuff without buying too much new things to make it work
love these freaks around here

Sieht Anna das nicht?
-- JakoJako
sie guckt hier nicht rein ;)

Thanks for sharing, I'm waiting on a Morphagene myself and this is very inspiring for the upcoming experiments !
I also love using Maths as a drone VCO, very cool tone control possibilities

Nice find @farkas

Metropolis can have arbitrary gate lengths but it limited to 8 steps, but with repeats and gate length adjustments I think you can get close to "64" steps or easily fall off the traditional 16 step/bar notion.

Pretty cool potential addition to your test bench:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-b-230-curious-goat-silver

I'm not using a joystick, but I have been really focused on incorporating more interactive and performance-oriented modules. For the price, I really enjoy the Sound Machines LS1 light strip for modulation and the Low-Gain Short Bus for live trigger/gate/rhythm manipulation. The FSS Makrow is killer for changing multiple parameters with the turn of a single knob. DivKid Mutes are great. I'll soon be adding a second Mutes module, in fact, so I probably should have just picked up the FSS Stumm in the first place, but I really enjoy DivKid's module. The NE Quant Gemi is a fairly interactive octave switching module. And finally, the Acid Rain Navigator is on my short list.
Which joystick are you looking at?

one thing i wanna do with my modular,is Making a Controller row/skiff with modules for controlling and live interaction with my modular.

one thing i know i want is a joystick module for my drones
im interested in hearing what other modules people are using for this sort of thing?

I really like the look and sound of Beads and I've been watching YouTube avidly to learn more about it. Unfortunately my little 84HP rack is full up and, anyway, Beads is sold out in the UK. I was interested to learn that it uses a recording buffer, however, and that got me thinking about the Morphagene, which also has a recording buffer. Learning about Beads inspired me to use the Morphagene in a way that is new for me...

I went through and revised my space yet again. It seems that just when have an idea for my final build, i have to change things once again. I had realized that I had 2 more inputs in my flying bus cable that I wasn't using.
Now if I'm smart, which I hope I am, id hope that I'm at least smart enough to use ALL my space if I can.
I also realized i had no VCAs... dumb lol
So, I got rid of the Varigate4+, Levit8, Polaris, and FX Aid, and exchanged them for:

Mimetic Digitalis - I watched a video on this and I love the amount of things I can do with this module. I feel like its way better than the Varigate 4+ in terms of editing, plus it saved me some room.

uJove - Its an excellent and simple filter with 4 modes and 3 cv inputs, one for resonance, one bipolar, and one unipolar.

Vnlcursal VCA - Its a 6 channel VCA which, in my book, is better than a quad VCA, not to mention its all packed in only 8hp, plus it just looks evil >:)

FX Aid XL - Its just apparently a lot better than the standard FX Aid so I thought why not.

6x Mix -3 A and 3 B inputs and 3 A+B outputs for a mixer just sounds great to me.

This made enough room for me to add Kinks and a dual buffered multiple because utilities are important.

yeah but at 50c/year it's not that much of a hassle is it?

just buy a bag of ics when you buy the module!!

I'm considering one and that would be my plan!