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SO, I, probably like an infinite number of other people, am asking for advice.
I jumped into modular feet first. I spent a lot of money on modules based on what I heard from those modules on YouTube. There was 'some' planning, but I don't think I knew enough to make the right decisions. The other huge problem that I have run into is the learning curve required. I've got into synthesis and programming Arduinos. Even have delved into Supercollider programming. This is kind of a different animal.
While I think I have an appreciable amount of knowledge, it doesn't always translate well into what any specific module does or how it does it.
I have already upgraded from a 2u x 84 hp case, to a 2u x 104 hp case and have the rest of the modules I needed to fill it up. What I have here, is what will be in the case at some point this week. I've added the NerdSeq, Polivoks, and Mimeophon that are on the way.
My question... before I run on too long, is what are some opinions on what I'm lacking in utility or function? Do I have what I need? My old rack is fairly empty now. I have an instrument interface and a wogglebug in there. Mainly, I'm looking for that "Dude, how could you have forgot to get that?" kind of advice. The truth is, I really don't know any better...yet.
I will be pairing this system with the make noise shared grid. I'm wondering if my mixing/modulation/utility needs are met? I feel i may be overdoing it with the oscillators and could possibly use some more fx in here but would love to hear other opinions. Rack is for music and sound design/processing.
I really wouldn't bother with midi... bsp is built for pitch & gate (and modulation cv) so unless you are averse to patch cables (& remember they're intrinsic to using a modular synth) - I'd dump the midi->cv module as redundant and use that space for something useful like more utility modules...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
personally I went for adding what I though was missing - and rearranging over time so that I have a more structured system - something vaguely like the layout of a 2600 - although at the moment I have a subset in the living room which I use - 3 cases (2 for audio and 1 for video) - I may shift this round soon
currently I'm at 8 cases approx 1800hp - with maybe 300hp free spread throughout - some of which is diy backlog (which I should really get round to)
but saying that I know of lots of people who set up each case as an individual instrument...
basically what works for you works for you...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
finally fill my case last fall, really loving the freedom and capabilities of this beast...of course its not perfect but fine for the moment...how do think about a second case guys...do you build it around a full system on its own or you can add missing stuff random???
The idea behind this rack is to build a new performance techno rig that I can use as a practice instrument (and for fun). I want to dig into sound design and so use a sampler such as the Erika Sample Drum a central piece of the system. There is no plan to bring a DAW into the picture.
Some notable inspirations are Julia Bondar's standalone racks (without the heavy use of Endorphin.es modules) and some of Jeremy Blake's (aka Red Means Recording) live performance rigs.
Case
I already have a Mantis case, with which I am very satisfied!
Modules
On the top row, there are two VCO sound sources (Plaits, C&P), two filters (Forbidden Planet, QPAS), and an wavefolder. Following that is a straightforward way to add a drum track, with two Pico Drum2. Next is the Sample Drum that I'll use with both externally created samples and recordings. The A-138s mixer is there to create a stereo sound path out of the multiple sources. That can then be fed into one of the stereo effects modules, such as the FX Aid and Beads.
Bottom row is where I'm really unsure about what works well. It starts with Shuttle Control being driven by the BSP. Pamela, Batumi, Maths, and Zadar generate all the necessary triggers, LFOs, and some envelopes. Veils is the main VCA. I'm still figuring out the role of Ornament & Crime, but so far I appreciate its versatility. Shades can be used to adjust gain or CV if necessary. Finally, Prism and Viol Ruina bring some more sound manipulation. The last WMD MSCL provides compression.
Half of the modules come from a previous rack (in a tiny Cre8audio NiftyCASE), which still seem suited for this new rack:
- Mutable Plaits
- Mutable Beads
- Mutable Veils
- Mutable Shades
- Winterbloom Castor & Pollux
- ALM Pamela's NEW Workout
- Make Noise QPAS
- Tip Top Forbidden Planet
- Erika Pico Drum2 (2x)
- Doepfer A-138s
- After Later uO_C
Sequencing
I'll be doing most of the sequencing of the melodic parts and percussion on a BeatStep Pro. Although I don't plan to travel with the case, it seems more ergonomic to dispatch the signals from a MIDI-CV module such as the Shuttle Control, than to route cables from the back of the BSP.
Output and Mixing
The audio outputs are all going to be sent to a Mackie 1202 mixer. I'm concerned that it could be difficult to quickly stage or adjust the gain of the some sound paths, so I included a Mutable Shades to perform simple attenuation if needed.
A probabilistic pattern skipper/generator eurorack kit from CuteLab
A pretty simple build, though you do have to be careful around the surface mount components that come pre-installed to not heat and nudge them aside.
Useful unit when you’re done. Scope traces really show you what’s going on
Lugia : Hey thanks for the reply!!
I’ve been touring w a friend for 4 years using a FX16II and we just use the fx for a bit of reverb, enough for our needs. We bought the EFX8 as a more compact mixer we can travel with (the FX16II already got stuck at the airport ..)
I know there are some better reverbs out there that I would love to use but its already a pain to carry so much stuff (mixer / 4 drum machines and synths each / outboard delay and two outboard compressors ..) so the EFX8 allows us to gain a bit of space. There is an aux track we can use on the efx8 tho!! (For delay or comp). In the studio im using a Zoia and Boss SX700 but i will check into the SPX90 😃
Old school Yamaha gear rocks!
As an external mixer I will have a soundcraft EFX8 and a Mackie 1202 (sub mixer). Also a Delay, a stereo filter and one outboard compressor.
+1 on Soundcraft, -1 on the EFX series.
Save yourself some money and get the EPM6. Same mixer, no internal FX. Then hop over to Reverb and/or eBay and grab some rack hardware...since the EPM6 has a typical small-mixer mono-send/stereo-return setup, devices such as the venerable Yamaha SPX90 will work very nicely in that situation, and give you a lot more FX capability than a little onboard FX chip.
I’m hearing your advice on Maths as a lot of people tell it’s one of the best! Do you think it can adapt well in this setup ?
I don't even have to look, since Maths is perhaps one of the finest modulation sources devised. It works in ANY setup, as long as you've got space for its 20 hp.
Even people who grumble about Maths eventually wind up with one. No lie.
Absolutely, yes. O'scopes can handle a couple of hundred volts, depending on the model.
I'm really unclear on if I can run a patch cable directly from one of my modules into this device. I'm also not sure if this oscilloscope works with DC signals. It says the multimeter is DC, but nothing about the oscilloscope.
Because it's assumed that you know that the scope handles both DC and AC.
Tangentially: I have no multimeter and I'm thinking that would be useful for testing hardware for issues, recalibrations, and building DIY modules. But I see I can get a dedicated multimeter for a tenth the price.
And you're absolutely right...a multimeter IS more important than an oscilloscope. The only practical uses I see for a scope is for checking waveform purity, working on a module, and hunting noise in signals, plus they're quite indispensable for checking phasing when mixing. But a multimeter works on so much more that's germaine to electronic music...from troubleshooting the latest eBay find to precise CV settings, especially in harmonic additive methods that require exacting CV manipulation, to finding levels from experimental devices (like test gear!) that are appropriate for synth CVs or audio signals. Over on Hainbach's subreddit, one constantly-repeated point is that you NEED a multimeter if you're doing hardware-based electronic music. And that ain't no joke!
Hmmm...interesting module, that. It doesn't simply do trigger sequencing, but also has two channels of CV/gate under the sequencer. Doesn't look like the MIDI ports do anything beyond loading the sequencer, but I'll bet there's some sort of sneak function that might let you use them as a proper MIDI interface. It 100% syncs to the MIDI clock, though, according to their site. And while 16 hp might be a real chonk in smaller builds, it's probably the best "sequencer crammed into small module" I've seen a bit.
and yea i see miso has jumped in there. good module.
-- trigmusicnz
One of my picks, actually. I don't really see it as a "performable" module...rather, I look at it as a "modulation ganger" in addition to its other functions. For example, if you've got a single LFO being messed with via a MISO (or my other fave for tighter spaces, the Frap 321), you can change the LFO's rate and ALL derived signals will change in lockstep with that modulation source.
Instead of a "normal" VCF, use one that has an insert path...and then drop something like a delay or reverb into that. Doepfer's A-106-1 fits into 14 hp, leaving 4 hp for an effect to screw with the resonance path...HN's FX Aid could work, and there's several others that fit in that remaining space.
The 106-1, fyi, is actually a version of the MS-20's Sallen-Key filter pair...which is definitely is capable of some weird filter interactions. Plus, this idea is pretty cost-effective and fills the 18 hp hole.
-- Lugia
Hmmm....interesting...I already have FX Aid XL...but now I have to fill an 4HP hole ;)
Since I have this Youtube Channel kicking around now, I recon I might as well use it..
so here's a jam I recorded today ( little bit of mixing in PT, some verb some compression, if anyone cares about that..).
I'm far from experienced with purely electronic music, so I appreciate any Input on this.
Hope it's enjoyable.
ok planning on taking the semis out of the case in the future - you get a pass on this
maths can work well in all racks...
I wouldn't worry about filling the case all at once - personally I think a single voice - vco, filter, modulation source (possibly maths) & a decent vca (quad cascading) plus a way to play & a way to listen is a good start, then add a few utilities and then think about more voices is a better way to go
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
JimHowell1970 :
Thanks for your reply! Well it’s not a proper system of course. I already own the Swarm and I want a DFAM and Dysmetria so I can use them out of the rack later and gain space for other stuff (switches, filters, modulations etc).
I just want a full functional case where I can start learning eurorack, write music and get ideas on the next modules.
As a sequencer I will be probably be using the Oxi One connected with the Oxi Pipe (top left) of the rack.
As an external mixer I will have a soundcraft EFX8 and a Mackie 1202 (sub mixer). Also a Delay, a stereo filter and one outboard compressor.
I’m hearing your advice on Maths as a lot of people tell it’s one of the best! Do you think it can adapt well in this setup ?
I need to dig more into utility modules and their use cases too.
well it's not really a modular synth is it? it's a collection of semis in a case with a few modules to bulk it out... as a modular synth it's shit...
at least one of the semis (probably more) have their own cases and power supply - use these otherwise you are increasing the cost of them by 10-20% and taking up rack space for actual modules
the other disadvantage of these is that you are not levering the advantages of modular - use this filter with this oscillator one patch and the next use a different filter with that oscillator.. etc etc
how are you going to sequence? use the mom? ok well there may be issues there iirc mom uses slightly different pitch scaling - so you'd need something to translate - or the octatrack? does it have cv outputs, idk... oxi one? no need for the buffered mult (buffers are generally only needed for pitch)
how are you mixing your external synths - I would not bother with an eoc modular mixer in this case... I would use the external mixer - which you might need to upgrade - but it will be less expensive...
falistri - urgh - imo - bad layout etc - get a maths instead, better learning documentation is available for it - see the 'maths illustrated manual' as well as the plethora of videos on you tube
on top of this, not enough utilities, not enough modulation... see my signature for hints on how to create racks that give the most versatility for the least cash...
1u - I cannot convey how wasteful I think it is (not necessarily a popular ideology) - in terms of cases they cost the same as 3u (or so close as to be irrelevant) and an extra 2u takes up about 3" and means you can fit way more functionality in the case - if I was given the choice of an intellijel 7u case or 2 mantises, I'd always take the mantises...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I’m planning to build my first euro rack case.
Been playing techno live with a friend for some years already and looking into a fun and compact modular setup for a solo liveset.
I will use a SR909, a octatrack, a 303, some effect pedals, and a intellijel 7u case. Maybe I’ll also have my Oxi One with me.
Could someone give me any advices on this setup? I lack 1U modules. Probably a mini patchbay + delay + headphones out.
Also, the Vortices mixer is too large to fit top right.. Do you know any mixer I could use instead ? I was thinking of adding a Qu Bit Data Bender instead + small mixer.
I’ve also decided to add a Frap Tooks Falistri as a learning tool (slightly smaller than Maths) but not quite sure of how I will use it yet.
Thanks for your time 🙏 I’m a eurorack noob don’t hesitate to tell me if you think about something useful.
Can this be done with the Doepfer A-138o? I have only used it as an aux for modules in the past.
-- isolatediguana
I don't know if the A-138o (with the A-138p) has sufficient gain for external return. Doepfer's documentation is not very clear on this point. I suspect something like the A-119 Ext. In is needed.
I just ordered a Versio as well (Melotus, but I plan to flash Desmodus and Electus to try them out) but for more intrusive or modulated effects. If I want a quality blackhole or shimmer, I will still go to an external pedal.
-- plragde
i can tell you now its not got enough gain to do this. i had this setup, doepfer a138 p & o, with alm busy circuits external guitar pedal interface @ 4hp - SBG. that did the trick.
I sent the endorphines back for a few reasons (quality/LR balance issue/loss of signal), and I really like my FXaids but I recently have added the Timiszoara and I must admit there are a wonderful set of very cool algos, and the "classic" ones sound great too!
Hey fam, I come to you all to know your thoughts about this one sequencer ? I should get it soon or sooner to give it a bit of space on the channel, but I am very curious of what you think bout it.
Mavis is 44HP, a Mother is 60HP, so together you get 104HP with the jack fields next to each other. Moog have 104HP cases and also provide rails to extend their 60HP rack to 104HP. My main gripe (so far) with Mavis is the lack of USB as a power source so it's not really portable, which makes the case cover kind of redundant. And also makes firmware updates problematic - though there may be a way to attach something directly to the board (perhaps something like the Silicon Labs USB flash debugger).
I guess the design could have been done with the jack field being a separate component which could have been attached via a ribbon cable at either end of the case, so you could position it left or right.
i guess youd chuck your mother 32 or whatever 60hp'er on the left side, some modulation in the middle, and the mavis on the right. patch cable clutter contained to a central area with both moogs free for wiggling.
i think focus your gripes elsewhere, like behringer for instance. /sued.
OK, so it's a little 44 (45 in its case) hp box, but it's not exactly what it appears to be. For one thing, it doesn't arrive assembled; you have to slap it together like the Werkstatt. But unlike the Werkstatt, it's got 3.5mms on it. And a keyboard(ish), plus a wavefolder, costs $349.
Right away, the size factor is actually similar (off by 1 hp, even) to Make Noise's 45 hp trio of 0-Ctrl, 0-Coast, and Strega. The presence of the much-touted wavefolder also hints at them trying to get a bit more West Coast. But I don't buy it. Rather, I'm of the opinion that Moog's trying to make inroads versus their Asheville neighbors by tossing out a dog's dinner that fits the 0-Coast format (mostly).
F'rinstance, if you want to use it with one of Moog's 60 hp devices in a multi-tier, you're going to have an IMMEDIATE problem with a rat's nest of patch cords that's now established a home across the front of one of them. Yeah...the usual Moog 60s have the patchpoints on the right, but the Mavis has all of them on the LEFT. Not the smartest hardware move, nope...
OK...so, I'll put it in a 60 hp Moog skiff! Hrmmmm...that won't work. 60 - 44 = nope. Put two in? Also...nope. So if you want to rack THIS one up, you'd better have the right space or a big blank panel handy. You could put modules in the space, too...but after using 4 hp for power (remember, the BLANK Moog skiffs have no power circuitry), you've only got space for 10 hp of Eurorack. But then, this gets us back into the point of "why buy one with the case/power if it's going in something else with a case/power" thing. But here, your extra case is all but useless, as it's VERY shallow and doesn't seem like it's got a proper P/S or distro in it.
Even Moog's website is sort of pants here...for example, they show a Mavis in a 60 hp Moog skiff with a couple of modules (a Make Noise (them again!) STO and what appears to be an inverted (?!?) Intellijel uJack), but unless all of the power is coming through the Mavis, it'll be a cold day in hell when those two other modules are usable in that configuration.
If this were JUST a follow-up to their Werkstatt, I wouldn't be so irked. Y'know...something like a "mkii" that's got the 3.5mm points instead of pinwires, without the need for the dongle-ish patchboard. Yeah, it probably sounds great and all that...I just question what's going on with the Mavis minus the sonic factors. It seems like something that was scribbled out on a bar napkin with ZERO thought as to what might be wrong with the idea in the first place! Maybe they're trying to take a few marketing ideas from Uli's bag of tricks...? I mean, there's that 0-Coast form factor there...but jamming a wavefolder into a typical subtractive synth doesn't make that synth "West Coast".
And one other point...the Mavis is supposed to have two VCOs. I only see one...which means that either the ad copy is wrong, or the batshit insane idea of having BOTH of them under the same control is in effect here. C'mon, Moog...Bob wouldn't EVER have done that. One function = one control...that was the whole damn point of Moog's synths all along!
At this point, I'm sure there'll be a bunch of Moog fanboys jumping in to go off on how this is all wrong, etc etc blahblahblah. My take on that is this: go ahead and drop your money on a Mavis, but I 100% guarantee you that you'll be VERY annoyed by it before much time passes. It might have that Moog ladder VCF...but who cares, as you can buy the exact same VCF from a source as cheap as Uli, or others at numerous price-points beyond that which aren't anywhere near $349. Wavefolders are cheap, too...and you can get 'em with the right "provenance", such as Dannysound's Buchla 259 waveshaper, Timbre, which sells at $110 and change. Plus...LPGs? Anywhere? Buehler?
TL;DR here is this: Mavis is a joke. A bad one. Copying Tony's form factor is bad enough, but laying the patch panel out so that it's BACKWARD from Moog's similar lineup is dumb as hell, unless you like patchcord snarls when using this with those. You DON'T put two modules under one knob without a way to differentiate the controls somehow. And some of what I see on Moog's site leaves...questions. But at least you can rack it this time out, since the cab it comes in looks like a piece of crap with a slit for directly connecting a power cord to the Mavis. Better hope there's a Eurorack connection there!
So, I liked the setup with multiple dual VCAs and two VCOs, but I don't like having the same module multiple time. For me a fundamental thing with modular is the mixing and matching of brands and unique takes to create one system.
-- Alltvin
Bad idea. So, let's say you have two oscillators, one being a Plaits, the other is a basic VCO. You'd LIKE to get the Plaits to sound really huge and fat, so you...oh, wait! Your VCOs don't have anything resembling the same waveform, so you can't exactly do that, because that detune trick requires (when done right!) two identical VCOs with identical waveforms, and if one's a Plaits, the other should also be a Plaits.
The same applies to the VCAs. Since those are Veils-topology VCAs, they'll all have the same sort of operating method, the same(ish) sweet spot on the variable response, same sort of gain factor, etc. That way, when you set one in the voice chain, the same sort of settings are applicable to each pair. This makes it much easier to get a patch set up, but if you go with all sorts of different VCAs, you won't get that. For example, in your new example, there's one of the After Later duals...but then, the next VCAs are those Doepfers, which DON'T have variable response. So if there's a certain curve you like on the After Later...well, that won't be happening with the Doepfer.
Couple of other things...for one, you really won't find much need for the Pam's MIDI expander. If you want to lock up drums to the modular, you can just use one of Pam's trigger outputs as exactly that. And if you need the drum machine to be the master clock, just send its timing sync from the machine to the Pam's clock input. Solution simple. And as for the question about the A-118-2, yes, the intention was to provide a noise/random source AND the sample and hold. You now have neither, save for the 2hp dual...but without any random sources, you can't use those to S&H noise/random signals to get a random CV output. But worse still, if you want to add a percussive "hit", you're now missing the audio source that you'd probably use for that.
Tell ya what...instead of progressing further with the hardware build, get hold of a copy of VCV Rack, and explore the why behind things like the identical VCOs, VCA behavior, and so on. For the most part, you should be able to put together various bits (I know there's Mutable module clones in the set) that explain the issues. VCV's free as well... https://vcvrack.com/
Modulargrid says it's $375. It's $299 at Perfect Circuit (not in stock). And it's $420 at Detroit Modular (in stock). The dealers seem to be getting worse than the profit taking Reverb sellers.
Great stuff this, I could listen all day to this, cools me down, especially after a stressful day. Today somehow lots of things didn't went the way I want, gave me a bad mood but this music of yours puts me back on track :-)
Therefore a big thank you for this great experience and I hope you will continue sharing your good work with us. Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Holy Smoke! This is great stuff! You got a beautiful packed rack there and the music you manage to get out of there is sublime!
When did you say your next concert was? ;-) Kind regards, Garfield.
P.S.: Big thank you to Modulargrid for solving that issue with underscores in the link. I usually don't follow simply a link but like the above video it's clear what you get: a rack full of great modules & music ;-)
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Big thank you @Lugia! Knocked another one out the park
I've studied the setup and the different functionality you've added and made a little remix. Fun to mess around with and great start to work from.
I tried keeping the modules I have and still fit similar functionality and setup as you suggested. One thing to add is that I have an external Electron box I do drums and effects with right now. That's why I removed that effects module from the bottom right.
So, I liked the setup with multiple dual VCAs and two VCOs, but I don't like having the same module multiple time. For me a fundamental thing with modular is the mixing and matching of brands and unique takes to create one system.
1st row: I swapped the dual Plaits with a Twin Waver and two of the VCAs to other brands. The Ladik I couldn't find anywhere close to me, so jammed a Disting for the slew and whatever I might want to use it for, ended up with space for a little sampler. Haven't thought much about it, but might be fun.
2nd row: Added a midi out to help with the drum programming, but that got to tight for the A-118-2, so went with a 2hp one. Not sure if you added the A-118-2 for the S&H or the Noise? The rest of te row is the same except i manage to squeeze in my Quad VCA and output-module I already got.
Did I keep the spirit of your system, or completely missed the mark on some of its features?
