A few nuggets of wisdom from this post, IMHO, need highlighting:
"I see people constantly asking what they need for their rack and I don't really relate to that very well because to me you should just start with enough to make some noise and then when you want to do or try something but can't, that'll inform what you want/need real quick."
Yes, ^this exactly.
I partially agree with this - there is nothing you actually need for your rack it really depends on you, but I do think its helpful to get some pointers in the right direction especially when starting out... but more focused I want to get a module that does this - or I want to move in this direction - can be quite helpful - although it is often a short cut from doing the research yourself
-"the point is not to use it all at once - it's like having a bunch of guitars/pedals, it just gives you more options"
I'm guilty of over-patching in an attempt to "use everything" but that's more an attempt at "learning" through trial and error than a "music production" aesthetic....and after my first few months of patching I've come around to the "less is sometimes more" aspect of not patching the kitchen sink each and every time.
the more you have the less you use
-"I did have a strong vision for my music, I think that's what a lot of people are missing and maybe what makes the journey more confusing for a lot of people."
And this is key. Modular is a major distraction from music-making, IF you don't know how to funnel your energies in order to harness the tools at your disposal. I think I'd be a bit in over my head if I didn't have a crystal clear idea of what I want my music to be (and maybe even more importantly, what I DON'T want it to be...)
definitely modular can be a distraction from making music to start with... or your definition of 'music' changes...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
What do you do when the synth gets a little too big... especially for managing here on the grid? My system is in 7 cases, the Center, to which this post is attached, is pretty much that, the heart of my system featuring my mixer, basic send/return effects, monitoring, clock, modulation control devices, and some of the modulation sources.
The basic config is three 6u Doepfer 84hp bases with three 9u Doepfer 84hp cases set above them. In the case of Center, there is an additional 6u Doepfer case above it that I refer to as "Special Teams," containing my "trautonium" rig, Assimil8tor, drone/noise sources, and (for the moment), a Intellijel Rainmaker. Some cases include a Plumb Audio Rack Plumber, which passes 18 channels of signal via HDMI cable to several of my special purpose satellite racks.
In all, there is one large, very capable modular system (in 7 cases), with Center (described and included on the grid... I will get to the others eventually), right beneath the previously described Special Teams, as well as five others: a sequencer rack, a voices rack, a drum rack, a drum sequencer/drone rack, and a FX rack.
Among the satellites are: an electro-mechanical percussion rack, a Midi rack (tall and slender) beside my computer (with interfaces, monitoring, and input capabilities, and a Moog semi-modular system.
Okay, so I've started smallish (84hp rack) ... I can't seem to find the Mantis in stock anywhere, so I just got a HE Kit... sorry
no need to apologize... waiting is difficult...
It seems like the Arbhar can take audio levels for recording?
yeah most of this type of module do - output will usually be at modular level though - so much higher
However I would like to include some guitar pedals as sends/returns. I also need an output module?
not an "output" module, but an effects pedal interface - that copes with attenuation on the way out, impedance and amplification on the back in...
Also, a filter? Unless I use the Pro2s awesome filters, but again more I/O S/R and insert effects ... any recommendation for the limited space I have left?
-- Monib
fix the link and I'll take a look
-- JimHowell1970
Done, the instruo in/out modules are just place holders
A fun filter from Cubusynth.
A interesting option in this one is the simultaneous output of low pass, high pass, and bandpass signals, so one could mix all three together in interesting ways from the same sound input.
Also allows you to play ring resonance as it’s own chromatic semi-VCO.
Straightforward build, lots of components but not hard.
Fun.
I started with some semi-modular (4 Neutrons) to complement my digital piano and Nord Wave, got hooked and then gradually branched into modular as I wanted to try new things, learning as I went. Part of that was regularly trying out and selling modules when they weren't quite what I was looking for - I think I've sold at least 70 modules. I see people constantly asking what they need for their rack and I don't really relate to that very well because to me you should just start with enough to make some noise and then when you want to do or try something but can't, that'll inform what you want/need real quick. My "rack" so to speak (it's really more of a sprawling mess haha) is pretty large now, but as you said, the point is not to use it all at once - it's like having a bunch of guitars/pedals, it just gives you more options when trying to find whatever sound you're looking for in a given instance. Mine grew to its current size over the course of 4 or 5 years, I couldn't possibly have planned it all out in advance. But I did have a strong vision for my music, I think that's what a lot of people are missing and maybe what makes the journey more confusing for a lot of people.
-- adaris
This is a great post chock full of great advice.
A few nuggets of wisdom from this post, IMHO, need highlighting:
"I see people constantly asking what they need for their rack and I don't really relate to that very well because to me you should just start with enough to make some noise and then when you want to do or try something but can't, that'll inform what you want/need real quick."
Yes, ^this exactly.
-"the point is not to use it all at once - it's like having a bunch of guitars/pedals, it just gives you more options"
I'm guilty of over-patching in an attempt to "use everything" but that's more an attempt at "learning" through trial and error than a "music production" aesthetic....and after my first few months of patching I've come around to the "less is sometimes more" aspect of not patching the kitchen sink each and every time.
-"I did have a strong vision for my music, I think that's what a lot of people are missing and maybe what makes the journey more confusing for a lot of people."
And this is key. Modular is a major distraction from music-making, IF you don't know how to funnel your energies in order to harness the tools at your disposal. I think I'd be a bit in over my head if I didn't have a crystal clear idea of what I want my music to be (and maybe even more importantly, what I DON'T want it to be...)
Thanks for your post, and for sharing your pearls of wisdom! Good stuff! :)
“You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
I started with some semi-modular (4 Neutrons) to complement my digital piano and Nord Wave, got hooked and then gradually branched into modular as I wanted to try new things, learning as I went. Part of that was regularly trying out and selling modules when they weren't quite what I was looking for - I think I've sold at least 70 modules. I see people constantly asking what they need for their rack and I don't really relate to that very well because to me you should just start with enough to make some noise and then when you want to do or try something but can't, that'll inform what you want/need real quick. My "rack" so to speak (it's really more of a sprawling mess haha) is pretty large now, but as you said, the point is not to use it all at once - it's like having a bunch of guitars/pedals, it just gives you more options when trying to find whatever sound you're looking for in a given instance. Mine grew to its current size over the course of 4 or 5 years, I couldn't possibly have planned it all out in advance. But I did have a strong vision for my music, I think that's what a lot of people are missing and maybe what makes the journey more confusing for a lot of people.
Okay, so I've started smallish (84hp rack) ... I can't seem to find the Mantis in stock anywhere, so I just got a HE Kit... sorry
no need to apologize... waiting is difficult...
It seems like the Arbhar can take audio levels for recording?
yeah most of this type of module do - output will usually be at modular level though - so much higher
However I would like to include some guitar pedals as sends/returns. I also need an output module?
not an "output" module, but an effects pedal interface - that copes with attenuation on the way out, impedance and amplification on the back in...
Also, a filter? Unless I use the Pro2s awesome filters, but again more I/O S/R and insert effects ... any recommendation for the limited space I have left?
-- Monib
fix the link and I'll take a look
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Jim, thank you. I'm all about the utilities! Just trying to figure out which ones.
Samara II seems to be out everywhere. Samara the original, none available on Reverb.
Patience is a requirement when it comes to modular... it always was, but the pandemic knock on effects have made things worse than usual for the last few years (and I expect for a while to come)
If I were to get Samara, would that mean getting rid of Miso or Utopia, or both? Or keeping all three?
it would be the last option for me... but you may be different... I'd keep them and see...
Kinks looks great Im sold.
clones are available not sure of names though
I have 2 uZeus withe the stock wall-warts, so I think Im good for this 6u 84 hp, though of course its only 80 hp for each row withy the power headers there.
yeah should be ok...
I'm listening via an audio interface, Behringer 1820. It has a pad on each line level input, so good for attenuating hot euro signal.
Not sure about sequencing. I think I'm mostly interested in "old" ways of doing things (i.e. shift registers and logic and such).
then you want a clock, clock divider, sample and holds etc etc... search for "sequencing without a sequencer" on modwiggler - there should be some good advice there
Definitely interested in more West Coast type ways of working, from what I understand. Not necessarily bongos, but definitley creating rhythms through modulated modulation. That is to say, I'm interested both in the sound design potential of modular, but also the sequencing. Also: the west pest has a simple sequencer, and my DSI pro 2 has an analog 16 or 32 step sequencer, with pitch+gate+3 additional CV's out.
-- iguai
If you're in "West Coast" synthesis - then I'd look at modules from Random*Source, Tiptop/Buchla and Elby
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I understand your answers and I agree that a quad VCA is the solution in order to add another voice and control those sounds in a more convenient way.
Now I'm using the EXT IN of the MOOG putting in it the Wavetable VCO ( ...before patched in th MIX on the MOOG )
So I'm using the VCF and VCA of the MOOG as you wrote.
I'm waiting to arrive a Quad Multiplier so in the incoming future I'll be able to use more signals into the EXT IN
I agree for VCV RACK , I need to make some test with it.
I have a Minilogue XD and Monologue from Korg but I would like to completely dive into modular 'cause... I like it!!!
Hi,
From the advice I've read in forums, and from my personal experience, I think this has happened to almost all of us when we started.
In my case, I've been doing this for a year, and I'm already selling modules that I bought at the beginning because I barely use them.
And it's funny, because before I started assembling my rack, I read forums, and I saw advice from veteran people who recommended doing the exact opposite of what I ended up doing.
I think it's not about more or less modules, but about finding the module that gives you what you're looking for, for example, I started having 6 LFO's in my system divided into 3 modules, and in the end, I bought a NE Clep Diaz that it has replaced 4 of those LFO's. A module replaces 2 modules, and also offers, from my point of view, functionalities that are just what I was looking for.
---Ferran.
**the instruo input/output modules are just place holders.
Okay, so I've started smallish (84hp rack) ... I can't seem to find the Mantis in stock anywhere, so I just got a HE Kit... sorry
It seems like the Arbhar can take audio levels for recording? However I would like to include some guitar pedals as sends/returns. I also need an output module?
Also, a filter? Unless I use the Pro2s awesome filters, but again more I/O S/R and insert effects ... any recommendation for the limited space I have left?
Regarding using the Mother 32 with another VCO, I assume you're meaning using the 'external audio' input jack on the top left of the patchbay. Just note that patching there inserts the signal before the VCF and the VCA in the module, so unless you're looking to turn the Mother 32 into a 2-oscillator voice (going through the same filter and VCA) or to just use the ladder filter in the Mother 32 with an external oscillator, then you'll need something else to mix it with a second voice. Cascading VCAs are always a good idea :)
If you're not sure what modules you'll really need to make patches you're happy with, you should consider spending some time with a program like VCV Rack or another software modular environment to try and make a few basic patches or view other patches to get a basic idea of what you might need. Looking to non-modular hardware synths that you like for guidance can also be a good idea to get a feel for what most would expect to find in a typical synth voice.
Jim, thank you. I'm all about the utilities! Just trying to figure out which ones.
Samara II seems to be out everywhere. Samara the original, none available on Reverb.
If I were to get Samara, would that mean getting rid of Miso or Utopia, or both? Or keeping all three?
Kinks looks great Im sold.
I have 2 uZeus withe the stock wall-warts, so I think Im good for this 6u 84 hp, though of course its only 80 hp for each row withy the power headers there.
I'm listening via an audio interface, Behringer 1820. It has a pad on each line level input, so good for attenuating hot euro signal.
Not sure about sequencing. I think I'm mostly interested in "old" ways of doing things (i.e. shift registers and logic and such).
Definitely interested in more West Coast type ways of working, from what I understand. Not necessarily bongos, but definitley creating rhythms through modulated modulation. That is to say, I'm interested both in the sound design potential of modular, but also the sequencing. Also: the west pest has a simple sequencer, and my DSI pro 2 has an analog 16 or 32 step sequencer, with pitch+gate+3 additional CV's out.
I know this might be a daft question but looking for some feedback in terms of my journey through all this.
I guess I've been pursuing the idea of adding more and more modules in a kind of 'how can I make this next one work with EVERYTHING else'.. and eventually ending up with a complete mush of nonsense. And as a musician and producer of a couple of things I really should know better but it hasn't really clicked with modular until just now that I don't have to use EVERY module all at once just cos they're all nicely lined up in a case.
I've been having a good evening just mixing say 2 modules together, and then trying 2 others to see if I can compose something musical (in the harmonic sense of the word as I'm not opposed to discordant random noise either).
For example like many people I imagine, its been very hard to integrate Subharmonicon into anything because it's so challenging to tune. But isolated and quantized it becomes a very different animal capable of some very versatile melodies.
So how has other people's journeys been? Has it been a case of trying to throw it all together like me or more of a thought out process of 'less is more' sometimes..
If I add another VCO I need also another filter and VCA for it or I can let it work with Mother 32?
possibly not sure on patching as I don't have any semis - but more vcas (get a quad cascading one - think of it as an investment (& it can also be used as a vc mixer) - and filters are almost always a good idea
I already have the Wavetable VCO and I'm patching it with Mother 32 but I do not have so many IN and OUT more (I ordered ad multiplier in the meantime...) and I'm triyng to understand how to add another VCO voice
probably using a mixer pre-cv out of moog mixed with vco out, mixer out into vca in of moog??
I also need a Mixer?(Math can be used for this...so probably I'm already ok for that).
whilst Maths does include a mixer, using it as such kind of stops you using Maths for anything insteresting... get a quad (or triple) cascacading vca
so...the real question is:
for any VCO I have in the system is required a filter, LFO and VCA in order to use it?
well not required as such - depends what you are hoping to do... but lots of people have multiples of these per voice... multiple filters can give choice... multiple lfos (and/or envelope generators and/or function generators ie modulation sources) will allow you to modulate more parameters on modules... vcas are useful for both audio and modulation sources... a matrix mixer is incredibly useful for mixing modulation sources together to create more complex ones - especially when patched into vcas and sample and hold modules...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Maths - it's a good learning tool - what with all the video resources and the 'maths illustrated supplement' - work your way through the latter a few times concentrating on what, how and why and you'll do yourself a big favour... & it's also incredibly useful and not small...
A matrix mixer - incredibly useful - from taking multiple modulation sources and making them more complex to setting up send/return or feedback processing for effects
xaoc samara would also make a good addition... as would a kinks clone
I'll point you to my signature - as I usually do in most posts - for a few hints on how to get a versatile modular for as little as possible - the formula scales from tiny systems, to the truly massive
I only see one uZeus module - and the power draw is over it's capabilities - on the +12v this can be remedied by using the higher powered 'turbo' power adapter, but the -12v is probably quite bit over... not only should you leave at least 20%, better still 30%, headroom on each rail, but 533mA is more than the max draw on this rail even with the jumper switched - regular setting is just 400mA (so you don't really want to be going much over 300mA - don't skrimp on power - it's really important!!!
all this of course can be remedied by removing the West Pest...
how are you playing this? a sequencer might be a good idea... at least 2 channels...
how are you listenimg? via an external mixer or audio interface?
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
We means all of the Eurorack community. Bad wording, sorry my bad.
I do not speak for Random*Source (or any other manufacturer).
For any inquiries turn to the manufacturer please.
Now we have a black panel for the ResEQ as preferred by some. The ResEQ has been around for quite a while. What I had hoped for is an expander module with CV over all the frequency bands. Add gate sequences and have fun! Much more exciting to me than any visuals ;-) I heard rumors that there is a 4u version of ResEQ with CV control. Anyone?
-- wiggler55550
If I add another VCO I need also another filter and VCA for it or I can let it work with Mother 32?
I already have the Wavetable VCO and I'm patching it with Mother 32 but I do not have so many IN and OUT more (I ordered ad multiplier in the meantime...) and I'm triyng to understand how to add another VCO voice
I also need a Mixer?(Math can be used for this...so probably I'm already ok for that).
so...the real question is:
for any VCO I have in the system is required a filter, LFO and VCA in order to use it?
Interested in modular for a long time but I always steered clear. Then in February I bought a DSI Pro 2 (which has CV in and out),
so I thought I'd buy one of those West Pests to have a wave folded analog extra oscillator to run into the Pro 2. Then a week later I visited my friend who gave me 2 Happy Ending kits. Later that week, I bought 6 fairly random modules (the cheapest ones!) from a local music shop. I had those until yesterday when I went a little crazy and bought a Rubicon, STO, uFold, uVCA, and Quadrax on Reverb. Those are in the mail today. So, heres what I will have by the end of the week. The West Pest can of course come out of the rack, and will Im sure. Just more convenient for it to live there now until I need the space.
So: opinions on what I need. This is all in a desktop 19" rack with HE kits. I could add another set of rails and go up to 9U, but thats as far as I want to go within the next year for budget reasons. I really don't like the Dreadbox modules; too tight, trimmers, etc..
So I think I'm actually interested in BIG modules, or well spaced out ones, not maximizing per-HP return.
Thanks!
I have ordered a System 55 … now waiting impatiently , several months backlog in Germany.
I am new to Eurorack, but not completely new to patchable synths, I own an ARP 2600 clone, had (very long ago) a Korg MS-20 and MS--10 plus the analog Korg step sequencer and also had the chance and fun to play around a lot with a very large Roland System 100M in the past.
Some noob questions:
Looking at the System 55 modules I do not see any phones or line level output, so I am thinking of getting either an Erica Synths Black Output Module V2 or a Doepfer A-135-3 plus a Befaco Out V3. What would be the better option?
Some other modules in consideration to populate the bottom row would be:
Behringer Brains to have one OSC a bit more “digital” in the portfolio
Dopefer A-184-1 to add the ring mod, sample and hold and portamento missing from the System 55 modules
Doepfer A-145-4 for some more LFOs in a very compact size - a Micro Ornament & Crime module looks like an interesting alternative, would offer the LFOs as one engine but also LOTS of other CV processing options. Any thoughts on this choice?
Doepfer A-174-4 3D joystick for more “interactive” control
Any likely some FX / audio processing, thinking of:
After Late Audio Resonate and/or Monsoon for textures / ambient / drones
Soma Lyra FX for delays and distortion
Happy Nerding FX Aid XL for CV-controllable multi FX
Any thoughts on these choices, better alternatives?
The bottom row in this rack is what I plan to add:
proper relaxing, I should have been listening to that after my weekend Yoga session :)
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
My new synthvideo is online and this is a special one. In the yogic tradition, in which I was brought up, when someone is nog well we sing this prayer. A dear friend who lives in the beautiful mountains of North Wales is not well at the moment so I wanted to record this prayer for her and for all the people who need healing and a sense of calm at the moment.
Yeah, I guess its way cheaper than a a Mordax Data.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
@JimHowell1970, duly noted but wanted to throw it out there as an option.
-- benscott
yeah I know, I know... but I think it's much better to buy something inexpensive and simple, before going expensive & complex... it's the same with the instruo lion... looks great, but it's expensive, not obvious in how to use it and has special cables to easily lose
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I was just asking this question... But Google keeps telling me no...
Just bought it... I'm sure I'll get something from the book... But more from the NTS-2
personally I'd want some more utilities... as they add more patching options... so versatility
& some modulation - envelope generators/function generators & lfos
and I'd probably go for a bigger case (mantis would be my choice - bigger/quieter/cheaper per hp etc) - sooner or later you'll inevitably need it & you're a bit close to the power specs for the uZeus - at least with the regular psu - & with the higher powered option there's no improvement on the -12v rail - remember to leave at least 20% headroom on all rails (& if you add more modules you'll probably want to change the jumper for the -12v to get the extra 100mA out of it...
-- JimHowell1970
Thank you for your help, particularly with the envelope/function generator and power/case aspects. These are areas I was hoping to cheap out on, but I think I won't for now, even if it means holding off on a purchase for longer.
I'm sort of tempted to just go with an updated version of this (should be visible if you click the image) and then see what other utilities I need as I go along. I also have a Bluebox mixer, so I'm at least ok for figuring out how to collect my various audio signals from the modular and send them to the rest of the world.
The Korg NTS-2 looks nice but I simply don't want the book.
I'm sure the book is lovely and I'd recommend everyone read it.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
think about what you need to copy... if it's v/oct (that you want to be accurate) or triggers that you want to re-patch mid performance - or you are trying to patch (for example) Maths outputs into unbuffered inputs - then a buffered mult makes sense... no idea about that specific one though... otherwise for modulation purposes then passive mults work perfectly well enough (and are cheaper and can be implemented outside the rack - thus saving space!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Thanks for converting and providing feedback! Wasnt sure how to show non jpegs...
just copy and paste the urls!
I've got drums covered by techno system and really wanted to keep it to 2 cases for playing out with. Will be keeping the modules and may swap out in future. Did the conversion earlier this week and really enjoying the sounds I'm getting!
-- B1RDSN3ST
good for you and good luck with the playing out...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
personally I'd want some more utilities... as they add more patching options... so versatility
& some modulation - envelope generators/function generators & lfos
and I'd probably go for a bigger case (mantis would be my choice - bigger/quieter/cheaper per hp etc) - sooner or later you'll inevitably need it & you're a bit close to the power specs for the uZeus - at least with the regular psu - & with the higher powered option there's no improvement on the -12v rail - remember to leave at least 20% headroom on all rails (& if you add more modules you'll probably want to change the jumper for the -12v to get the extra 100mA out of it...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
You built out all these?? Wildly impressive. I've been looking everywhere for a converted Minitaur or kit. Lmk if you have any collecting dust. Cheers =)
Thanks for converting and providing feedback! Wasnt sure how to show non jpegs... I've got drums covered by techno system and really wanted to keep it to 2 cases for playing out with. Will be keeping the modules and may swap out in future. Did the conversion earlier this week and really enjoying the sounds I'm getting!
Now I understand...
you both said to remove he Moog in order to obtain more space!
I can understand but I would lile to make this rak (Racbrute Arturia 6U) portable.
In the future I think to connect another rack to it of the same type, so 2 x Rackbrute 6U
But not now!!
Now I 'm only thinking at the modules and VCA or Multiplier seems to be the next in line
Also a filter for the second VCO as suggested
If you can telle me what module are considered good to look I will start to make sono analys/paralys!
Yeah, I totally made a rookie mistake, it never even crossed my mind to think about the power. But at least I found out before I bought all the modules - or worse, before I damaged anything.
Thanks for the advice - I was wondering about passive attenuators.
What I'm working on is basically a "randomized" sampler to play live. One of my favorite things about the Microfreak is that you can modulate the arpeggiator/sequencer rate and get really off the grid in a tactile way. I want to do this in a sampler and sort of create like an instrumental hip hop version of free jazz. If there is a hardware sampler that does this (or a MIDI controller like the Torso T1), I haven't found it yet, so my plan is to go modular make the setup posted above. I think this a good simple starting point for the concept. In addition to this stuff, I already own a Moog Mavis, Microfreak, Keystep, and SQ-1, as well as a couple more normal samplers that cover me well in terms of regular usage, so I'm pretty much just focusing on this specific function.
I guess I just thought I'd run it by people here to see if there's anything missing here in order to pull off the bare minimum version of this (or any repeated functionality that I don't need). I tested a version of it in VCV Rack and this seems fine, but hardware is obviously different. Any help would be greatly appreciated.