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Do have it. It does very well if you need AD envelopes, and you can also individually gate each one. The inverters are always useful. I personally have it downstream from a clock (Hermod) that then goes into a sequencer (Popcorn) and I use two slopes for voices and the other two to modulate things at half the speed with the built in clock divider. You can also break the normalling of the LFO as the clock and manually step through the divisions as a per-step set of rising and falling LFOs like a Stages.
Hi,
I've searched other threads and haven't found anything.
Does anyone have experience with this ST MODULAR module?
I'm looking for a multiple EG and I've come across this module, which apart from 4 EGs with modifiable shapes through internal LFO, also has an internal clock with dividers to be able to trigger the different AR's by itself.
I am surprised by all this functionality for such an affordable module (assembled by a professional it costs around €150)
I would appreciate your comments.
Ferran.
Note: I kow it, I have published this same thing in modwiggler, but hey, just in case someone here does not visit that page....
Thanks!
Maybe it's a bit nitpicky but it would be great if you can stack 1u in 3u space. I have the Xodes 1u to 3u format changer so would like to arrange my modules in a way that better reflects my rack.
The sentiment in this particular case seems strong among (some) users. If regulatory measures will not be tried, we probably need to submit to the crowd.
Stipulating a code of conduct for forum and product entries just seem like a reasonable thing to do. There are probably wise ideas among experienced forum users on how to achieve this.
Since almost module entries are "crowdsourced" by users, that's not really something that can be regulated. I doubt B will get a manufacturer's account here to control their module entries either. The controversy makes $ales.
Leave the module entry as it is, and discuss the company's ethics, business practices and design theft in the forum comments. Leave it up to people to determine if they want to support Behringer's behavior or not based on what they read and observe.
The best thing to do is NOT give them free advertisement, and support the original small manufacturers with your purchases. I know I will never purchase their products ever again, that's for sure.
This is a copy not of MN Maths but the original design by Serge:
Serge Dual Universal Slope Generator
Do not know why the B hate on this as his design has been copies numerous times. https://richsstudioproject.wpcomstaging.com/product/cgs114-dusg/
-- amj666
Show me where Math is a "1:1 panel design up to every control knob" clone of the DUSG.
It's not about reusing an idea or a concept.
It's about cloning stuff 1:1.
Iagine how cool it would be if behringer came up with their own interpretation, probably a 4x DUSG with some specialties like a wave-folder or anything new, literally ANYTHING other than copying a ready to sell module of a small boutique company that probably sells a few hundred of those per year, sending them to china and throw a few thousend for one third opf the price on the market.
If you don't see where the problem is i hope if you should ever start a project by yourself that this doesn't happen to you.
And then people start to cry that Mutable Instruments, a one person company, closed down. lol
Behringer is stealing someone elses design, changing 1 or 2 minor things, and then passing it off as their own. Now, substitute "design" for "music" in that last sentence and ask yourself if you're still fine with it.
-- gringostar
false equivalence buddy; music is not electronic design.
everyone that does ED knows this; we copy, enhance, modify, borrow, steal, lie and cheat. that's the way the game is played. did it for 40 years. you clearly haven't done any of it. designers get paid, great designers get paid greatly. they got theirs, they don't need people like you to make a conspiracy out of it.
However, if you have to copy music, you really have no talent. music comes from inside. ED you learn by copying every that came before you.
Kind of an ALM fetish you've got going on there haha.
I was going to sell one of my PipSlope's but I've just started using it as an LFO on looping mode.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
first iteration of my rack is ready now, lots of fun to play with (all MI modules except for Beads are clones from Tunefish Modular):
Thinking about what I would like to add in the mid-term I am thinking about this:
I would like a multi-channel sound-source which I can use for sample playback, drums, natural background soundscapes, here the "Bitbox Micro" comes in.
With the 8 sound channels added by the Bitbox I would like to add some trigger capabilities beyond the Marbles and think of adding a "Pamela's New Workout".
I really like the Blades but would like to add one 4-pole filter - thinking of either the "Ripples (2020)" (like the built-in VCA) or the "Shakmat Modular Dual Dagger - Quad Stereo Filter" (very flexible).
The "ADDAC 601 Fixed Filter Bank" is probably something for the long-term, but if I get a fixed filter bank (which I'd really like) I would like to have voltage control, the envelope followers are a nice bonus.
For the last gaps left, I am thinking of a quad or octa VCA (Doepfer or another Veils) and a small multi-effect unit like the FX AID or Pico DSP.
-CIRCUIT:
manda un canal al pedal griego (que está en la case)
manda midi a SH
-KINEMATIC:
está en la case, mide 28hp (puesto de lado)
-VOZ:
va a pico input-->fx aid--> circuit (para delay) sale por los 2 canales de circuit
-DX (o korg monologue)
-SH:
está fuera de la case
dx manda su audio a sh (aux in) y de aquí sale para-->pico input2--> filtro--> vuelve a entrar a circuit (le damos un poco de reverb) y sale por el canal limpio de circuit
-DFAM
su fx: pico dsp
su triger: o bien ladik o malekko
-Maleko:
podría trigar dfam, lfo para dfm, lfo para el filtro
-kINEMATIC:
si no cabe en la case, por culpa de maleko, se puede poner pico input, debajo de la case (debajo de dfam, p.ej.)
What a shame if a company that size can't bring anything to the table but cloning.
Not even one thing added.
This lack of vision and creativity is what Behringer is best known for since their beginnings.
Hire some engineers for gods sake. Everyone can operate a copy machine.
Looking at the picture at the bottom of the article there is an ER301 and 3x Sample Drums hooked up to the Metron. Plus there is an Erica Bass Drum in the top left rack.
Behringer is stealing someone elses design, changing 1 or 2 minor things, and then passing it off as their own. Now, substitute "design" for "music" in that last sentence and ask yourself if you're still fine with it.
-- gringostar
In addition this would be a closer clone of the MK1 Maths which is no longer in production.
Either way a wise investment to go along side my MN Maths. The same way as my Behringer Brains are along side my MI Plaits.
-- Staticcharge
The original Maths did not have OR, SUM, and INV. It only had OR and SUM. It also did not have the UNITY output marked with ∫ as the Behringer module has copied. So no, its actually a clone of the in-production Maths MkII
Behringer is stealing someone elses design, changing 1 or 2 minor things, and then passing it off as their own. Now, substitute "design" for "music" in that last sentence and ask yourself if you're still fine with it.
-- gringostar
It's not about being fine with it or not. It's about keeping opinions off of ModularGrid's product listings. Would you go to the local library and tamper with books you don't agree with? Whether anyone likes a product or not is irrelevant. This is supposed to be a neutral library of Eurorack modules, let's keep it that way. Use the comment section or forum for discussion, not the product pages.
-- Arjan
Which is why I posted that in the comments section?
-- gringostar
But the problem isn't this discussion, the problem is people screwing with the product page. That's what this is about.
Bigger case. You're just gonna find yourself limited with 84 hp, no matter how you look at it. Particularly since you can only have 10 modules plugged into this case, regardless of how much hp you can squeeze out of it. The Nifty case has things going for it, no doubt (like the DAW connectivity), but you're just going to get frustrated saying "no" to interesting modules with a case this size when for only a module's amount more you can get something bigger (e.g., Mantis, etc..) that will allow you more flexibility.
I saw the "get more HP" suggestions coming from a mile away
I for financial, space and creative reasons I'm limiting myself to this HP.
The Grandmother already comes with a sequencer and arpeggiator, a filter that you can send a signal into, and a few other tricks. Use those and don'y waste space with modules like the 2HP Arp (it's a good module, but not a great use of space). Also, between Plait's natural abilities and the VCF on the Grandmother, the MI Ripples starts to seem unnecessary.
The 2 HP Arp is/will be the first victim of a rejig for this reason.
I am a big fan of the sound of Ripples. I'm also a fan of knobs I can grab, hence the full size MI modules rather than smaller clones.
Triggers and LFOs. As you can see, I've done a lot to your rack. Moved your Pams to the left (personal preference) and gave it the expander. Pam's can do a lot of neat tricks (triggers, gates, logic, quantization, stepped/smooth random, limited envelopes, euclidean rhythms, etc.). You don't want to waste its regular outputs on something dull like a steady 1x trigger. Use the expander for that. Next, we have modulation. Your A-147-2 is awesome, but pretty big for that case. So, I went bigger. For 5 hp more, you get Batumi and it's expander, giving you up to 12 LFO outs. Plus it can be cv controlled, self-patched, and has a few neat rhythmic modes that will keep you busy.
I usually have Pam's on the left but had the notion that as its central position lends itself to shorter routing to the mult and attentuators etc.
I'm willing to look at LFO alternatives, but I'm not going to pump it up to 12.
Utilities and cv-futzers. More, you need more. Audio manglers sound nice, but the richness and movement and finesse in modular come from the ability to move, attenuate, switch, offset/invert, route, and otherwise f-up a signal, which is what utilities give. First, you have the Happy Nerding 3x MIA. Everybody needs attenuverters, and this is 1 more than the one you had already. Also, the double pots are great to play with. Then the A-130-2, dual VCAs, since you really can't have too many. I like to have VCAs after my LFOs so I can modulate the modulator. Then, the A-182-1, Switched Multiple. This module takes no power and allows you to manually send or mute signals to two different sources. It also acts as a 2 channel multiple. As simple as it is, I've found it essential to my patches. Then uO_C, which gives you access to a whole host of programs to try out, such as quantizers, sequencers, slew, clock dividers, envelopes, simple comparators, vcas, and logic, etc... I prefer it with Hemisphere loaded, but it's amazing either way. A bit menu-divey, but it will give you a sense of what utilities and tools you'll want to dedicate a standalone module to in the future. Then the endorphins.es Airstreamer for ADSR duties (and other things like slew, s/h, etc.). Unfortunately, envelopes were an area I couldn't really help with (aside from uO_C and Airstreamer), as I don't know of good dual (or more) envelope generators that are thin. If you had a few hp more you could go with some interesting options, but you are limited at the moment to 4 hp (see below about Plaits). At the end, I give you another Happy Nerding Module, the 3x VCA, since, you really can't have too many of them, and they work great as an end of chain module. Also, those double pots.
The O/A/x2 is kind of a place holder in terms of attenuvertor, so the Airstreamer and HN 3 x MIA are totally options I'd entertain.
Audio. Plaits has got a big footprint, but I always prefer the real MI modules to clones. That said, with MI gone now, a clone like Knits would not be a bad or problematic choice. With Plait's/Knit's onboard abilities, you can do without an additional VCF, hence the removal of Ripples (no offense to a cool module intended). Then Beads. Beads is awesome. Beads stays. Be aware though, it takes some playing around with to get the sounds you want out of it. Once you figure it out though (and if you have enough modulation), it can really do wonders. With 3 hp left, I give you Erica Synths DSP, just a few more effects to play around with.
-- HGsynth
DSP is going to be done through a mixer FX and/or in a DAW once recorded.
Lots of food for thought there. Appreciate the input!
Behringer is stealing someone elses design, changing 1 or 2 minor things, and then passing it off as their own. Now, substitute "design" for "music" in that last sentence and ask yourself if you're still fine with it.
-- gringostar
It's not about being fine with it or not. It's about keeping opinions off of ModularGrid's product listings. Would you go to the local library and tamper with books you don't agree with? Whether anyone likes a product or not is irrelevant. This is supposed to be a neutral library of Eurorack modules, let's keep it that way. Use the comment section or forum for discussion, not the product pages.
-- Arjan
Which is why I posted that in the comments section?
I'm not terribly experienced giving feedback like this, so take this with a grain of salt, but here are my thoughts:
Bigger case. You're just gonna find yourself limited with 84 hp, no matter how you look at it. Particularly since you can only have 10 modules plugged into this case, regardless of how much hp you can squeeze out of it. The Nifty case has things going for it, no doubt (like the DAW connectivity), but you're just going to get frustrated saying "no" to interesting modules with a case this size when for only a module's amount more you can get something bigger (e.g., Mantis, etc..) that will allow you more flexibility.
The Grandmother already comes with a sequencer and arpeggiator, a filter that you can send a signal into, and a few other tricks. Use those and don'y waste space with modules like the 2HP Arp (it's a good module, but not a great use of space). Also, between Plait's natural abilities and the VCF on the Grandmother, the MI Ripples starts to seem unnecessary.
Triggers and LFOs. As you can see, I've done a lot to your rack. Moved your Pams to the left (personal preference) and gave it the expander. Pam's can do a lot of neat tricks (triggers, gates, logic, quantization, stepped/smooth random, limited envelopes, euclidean rhythms, etc.). You don't want to waste its regular outputs on something dull like a steady 1x trigger. Use the expander for that. Next, we have modulation. Your A-147-2 is awesome, but pretty big for that case. So, I went bigger. For 5 hp more, you get Batumi and it's expander, giving you up to 12 LFO outs. Plus it can be cv controlled, self-patched, and has a few neat rhythmic modes that will keep you busy.
Utilities and cv-futzers. More, you need more. Audio manglers sound nice, but the richness and movement and finesse in modular come from the ability to move, attenuate, switch, offset/invert, route, and otherwise f-up a signal, which is what utilities give. First, you have the Happy Nerding 3x MIA. Everybody needs attenuverters, and this is 1 more than the one you had already. Also, the double pots are great to play with. Then the A-130-2, dual VCAs, since you really can't have too many. I like to have VCAs after my LFOs so I can modulate the modulator. Then, the A-182-1, Switched Multiple. This module takes no power and allows you to manually send or mute signals to two different sources. It also acts as a 2 channel multiple. As simple as it is, I've found it essential to my patches. Then uO_C, which gives you access to a whole host of programs to try out, such as quantizers, sequencers, slew, clock dividers, envelopes, simple comparators, vcas, and logic, etc... I prefer it with Hemisphere loaded, but it's amazing either way. A bit menu-divey, but it will give you a sense of what utilities and tools you'll want to dedicate a standalone module to in the future. Then the endorphins.es Airstreamer for ADSR duties (and other things like slew, s/h, etc.). Unfortunately, envelopes were an area I couldn't really help with (aside from uO_C and Airstreamer), as I don't know of good dual (or more) envelope generators that are thin. If you had a few hp more you could go with some interesting options, but you are limited at the moment to 4 hp (see below about Plaits). At the end, I give you another Happy Nerding Module, the 3x VCA, since, you really can't have too many of them, and they work great as an end of chain module. Also, those double pots.
Audio. Plaits has got a big footprint, but I always prefer the real MI modules to clones. That said, with MI gone now, a clone like Knits would not be a bad or problematic choice. With Plait's/Knit's onboard abilities, you can do without an additional VCF, hence the removal of Ripples (no offense to a cool module intended). Then Beads. Beads is awesome. Beads stays. Be aware though, it takes some playing around with to get the sounds you want out of it. Once you figure it out though (and if you have enough modulation), it can really do wonders. With 3 hp left, I give you Erica Synths DSP, just a few more effects to play around with.
And there you have it. Should let you have a good time with your Grandmother and keep you flexible enough to experiment.
In the final assessment though, I think you have space to have fun, but you'd have a whole lot more fun with a bigger case.
It's not about being fine with it or not. It's about keeping opinions off of ModularGrid's product listings. Would you go to the local library and tamper with books you don't agree with? Whether anyone likes a product or not is irrelevant. This is supposed to be a neutral library of Eurorack modules, let's keep it that way. Use the comment section or forum for discussion, not the product pages.
-- Arjan
Well said. These fools will yell "I CARE ABOUT COMMUNITY" while tampering with the database. This is childish and pathetic.
It's not about being fine with it or not. It's about keeping opinions off of ModularGrid's product listings. Would you go to the local library and tamper with books you don't agree with? Whether anyone likes a product or not is irrelevant. This is supposed to be a neutral library of Eurorack modules, let's keep it that way. Use the comment section or forum for discussion, not the product pages.
My current version has another filter instead of Pam's and an Erica dual ASR that I want to replace with the Intelligel ADSR because I prefer the layout and functionality for the HP ... but for all intents and purposes, close enough to where I'm at.
This is sitting in a Nifty Case giving me my power and some I/O options. Additionally, this sits just above a Moog Grandmother. Technically this is its companion and expander. The intent is to create more complex textures to complement the moog and also create more esoteric sounds, courtesy of Beads.
As you can see, I got 2 HP spare. I'm still pretty damn fresh to this, but I feel this is a respectable and useful setup ... but with 2 HP left, what would you slot in there?
Please correct title and features of the entry. This „opinion piece“ is diminishing the usefullness of modulargrid.
I would add a corrected version myself, but I don‘t want to have anything to do with this ripoff module.
Funniest part about this backlash is that there have been countless "maths ripoffs" already, Maths is a euro copy of the serge DUSG, and continually editing this listing to say some vile shit is the same as editing a politician's wiki entry to say "mr Poopyhead" and just as pointless an exercise. Ban users who do this, it's totally childish and makes the site look bad.
-- dumpsterac1d
I was going to post something like this myself and now I don't have to. Thank you sir.
Behringer is stealing someone elses design, changing 1 or 2 minor things, and then passing it off as their own. Now, substitute "design" for "music" in that last sentence and ask yourself if you're still fine with it.
-- gringostar
It's not about being fine with it or not. It's about keeping opinions off of ModularGrid's product listings. Would you go to the local library and tamper with books you don't agree with? Whether anyone likes a product or not is irrelevant. This is supposed to be a neutral library of Eurorack modules, let's keep it that way. Use the comment section or forum for discussion, not the product pages.
