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thanks a lot :)! I am trying to get more and more into the calm waters of sounds and music.
For the patch notes:
phmk3 sequenced by vector quantized with sinfonion. The vector does a small 8 step pattern and jumps around direction modulated by a triple sloth. The phmk3 goes into mir vca with an envelope from an erica synths eg. Then into a happy nerding mmf filter, then into desmodus versio reverb.
The phmk3 wavetable selectors are a little bit modulated by the really slow inertia output of the sloth.
In short, soundwise: you hear the phmk3 with an vca/enevelope and a low pass filter as well as some reverb, that's all :).
Hey all this is my current set up
Making all things ambient to trance & techno
I'm pretty set for making my baselines, just struggling with some melodic stuff to go with it all tips and patch ideas would be much appreciated :)
Or if you can suggest a module for some melodic stuff
OK...now that we know where this is supposed to go, here's this:
Oh, yeah...now THIS is serious business!
Taking the cue from your explanation that this needs to be more of an "open-ended" exploration synth that can ALSO bang hard, this is my end-result. Several things got removed due to non-functionality (video LFOs, 921B VCOs [they need the 921A driver], non-Intellijel tiles [I'm presuming the cab is an Intellijel 7U x 104], uZeus), and others because of the need to correctly add "assistive" modules for others, and a few things (like the effects) because of that as well as the fact that you might get better results from outboard devices. Here's what this is about:
TILES: All Intellijel format now. Stereo audio IN, dual 1 to 3 buffered mults, Duatt, 1 channel of MIDI interfacing, Noise Tools (contains noise and random sources, sample and hold, slew limiter, and clock), another Duatt, Stereo VCA and Stereo OUT. The Duatts can be used as 2-in mono mixers OR as a pair of attenuverters...and yes, you CAN mix inverted and normal signals with these, which you might find very useful for messing with modulation to the VCOs and VCFs. And the Stereo VCA is placed so that you can impose CV level control over your stereo mix prior to the output. FYI, the Intellijel 7U has connectors for MIDI and audio I/O, and those tiles connect to those case connections. Also, this case has 3 Amps on the 12V rails, and since the build tops out at 1600+ mA on the +12 and just under an Amp on the -12, this should run pretty cool as you're nowhere near the max current load.
ROW 1: Envelope follower (for use with the external input to extract envelope/gate from incoming audio amplitude), dual slew limiters (with selectable direction response), then a Doepfer A-111-4 which is a Quad analog VCO. Following this is a MakeNoise Modemix, a dual ring-mod/mixer with which you can seriously mess with the A-111-4's outputs. You can also screw with those with the Bifold, a multi-input wavefolder and crossfader. Then we have some digital VCOs, clones of Mutable's Braids and Plaits, with a Happy Nerding FM Aid to allow FM crossmod between these (or these and a VCO from the A-111-4). After this is a 4-in mixer for summing, then there's a pair of VCFs...a Steiner-Parker Synthacon clone, very prone to wild, messed-up and very COOL filtering, plus a Doepfer A-121-2 multimode VCF which is more "sensible". Veils clone next, then a Happy Nerding PanMix, which is a six-input stereo mixer with CV panning capability. It's also got a headphone preamp for handy monitoring and tuning.
ROW 2: I chose a Temps Utile clone for your master clocking/initial sequencing. The Fractio Solum is a CVable clock divider/multiplier and the first of a few modules for screwing with the clocking. The Ladik Composer is a psuedo-random pattern generator, and their Comparator allows you to extract gate/trigs from LFOs, EGs, and the like. So then, I put a Tesseract VC Logics after those so that you can use the dual Boolean gates there to really mess with rhythm patterns and the like; with the incoming gate/trig/clocking from these first modules, you can go as wild as you want with clocking and pattern generation. Then sequencers...a 4-step Ladik is first, then a Qu-bit Octone for your 8-stepper with quantizing. The idea here is that you can use the 4-stepper for transpositions of the Octone, or even as a wholly separate 4-step CV sequencer.
Then, we've got LFOs...a little Quad LFO from Doepfer, then the Noise Reap uLoaf, which is a dual LFO with some very fun crossmodulation capabilites. Right after those, there's a Tenderfoot attenuverting mixer for cooking up complex LFO results, followed by half of a Veils clone from Antumbra. Following those, then there's the Maths and a Quadrax (quad envelope) with its Qx expander placed with the intention of letting it cross-connect with the Maths to turn BOTH modules into something completely over the top as modulation sources go. And you can even break out Quadrax EGs to use "normally" while you've got one or two handy to mess with the Maths' behavior. After this, I had to cheat a bit on the layout, but managed to include Bastl's well-regarded GrandPa and its expander for sampling.
Yes, it's denser. Yes, it's more complex. And yes, it overshoots costs...but this is a serious, comprehensive experimentation modular that ALSO operates in a straightforward manner for live gigs. The idea was to take things beyond the "beeps and boops" to some really wild, tripped-out territory while still being basic enough to work just fine for that original intent. Now, the effects, I already mentioned. Seriously, get on eBay or Reverb and pick up some cheap AF outboard processing while it's still going for dimes on the dollar. Then regarding the drum sounds...just get a proper drum machine, and you'll have a syncable device which has a UI that's intended for drums and controlling them properly. And it's cheaper than trying to assemble one in the build, too.
One other thing as well...ALWAYS consider what a build like this connects to outside of its box. If you don't have a decent small stereo mixer at this point...well, now's the time to get one. Then you can properly use outboard effects, mix this thing with some drum machines, and so on. If you keep those things in mind WHILE designing a build, you'll find you can eliminate a lot of superfluous modules...which then lets you make the functionality of the build denser and more capable. As for what to get...well, this might be surprising, but I'm going to suggest hunting down an ORIGINAL Mackie 1202...the square, boxy-looking one. Yeah, it's over 25 years since these were made, but I still use mine and it works 100% even with lots of live gigs and general abuse since I got it in 1993. You can't kill them. Look for some rack multieffects such as a Yamaha SPX90 (great, gritty 14-bit effects) or a Lexicon LXP-15 ($1400+ new, now about $125), and you'll be on the right track. And NEVER neglect the power of stompboxes...I have a "library" of about 40+ of those, with many being very oddly-behaving Chinese models, all of which have something interesting and unique that they can contribute to the results. So, LITERALLY think outside this particular box, and on outward to start considering what to build up AROUND this, with the modular as a centerpiece.
Hey all this is my current set up
Making all things ambient to trance & techno
I'm pretty set for making my baselines, just struggling with some melodic stuff to go with it all tips and patch ideas would be much appreciated :)
Or if you can suggest a module for some melodic stuff
I do want an Abstract Data Octocontroller for my Doepfer monster base case in the future but its sold out for a while since that case needs a bit more modulation.
My MDLR 14u has plenty of modulation now with Mob of Emus, Kermit, and Acid Lab Technologis Maestro.
I wanted to give you one more example but pressed the Submit button already...
That Azewijn track, I made that with 12 voices and 5 voices were for the Sinfonion (but those voices were the complicated ones, well most of them, not the chords), the rest of the voices where not done via the Sinfonion. In total for that Azewijn track I used 56 modules, so I estimated somewhere between 30 and 40 modules were used by Sinfonion (for it's channels, chords & arpeggio and the whole shebang), just for that Sinfonion (and all its channels of course). Just to give you a rough idea. Not that 56 should be a leading number, it's just an example. I am sure it can be done with less modules. I use usually rather simple modules trying to make something complicated. Others might prefer to buy a more complicated module then the complexity is already in just that one module and you don't need many extra modules to come up with the same ;-) So don't hang yourself too much up on that number, pure as an example here.
Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Well, I have to be honest with you, yes that Sinfonion needs a lot for input (actually for the output, the input is still kind of okay), the more you feed it, the more fun it gets and I wasn't joking that the Sinfonion will become the black hole of your system, it really sucks up anyting that comes near to it, you just want to feed it more the get more complicated stuff out of it.
I also bought it a slightly bit too early, but there was a good deal in the regular shop I am going so I couldn't leave it there :-) What I did then was I just didn't use all the channels at the same time yet because I just didn't had enough modules to feed this beast. Then slowly when my setup started to grow I could make more use of the potential of this monster. A monster in a good way, but still a monster ;-)
Well utility modules are always good to have, with or without the Sinfonion, so you might need to look into that issue first then.
Perhaps we should change the question a little bit here from "What does the Sinfonion like to be fed with?" into "What would you like to feed the Sinfonion with?" ;-)
It's really difficult to answer that question of yours because, the Sinfonion is rather flexible and because of the many possibilities it offers you, you really can just almost throw anything to it and it will take it and do some weird or less weird things with it, which all will depends on you, on how you configure it.
But perhaps with trying to give a few examples, you might get a better idea:
For that "The Cry Of The Modular Synth" track, I "fed" the Sinfonion with an input signal... oh yes! For each channel the Sinfonion likes to have an input :-) I usually take an LFO that's flexible in use so when I change the LFO, the behaviour of the Sinfonion changes too. However for the above-mentioned track, I used the Doepfer - A-118-2 noise module and used the random output and used that as the input for channel 1. That's why the "note selection" by Sinfonion behaved a bit weird (and not in always the same kind of rhythm that you might get with an LFO) in that above track; on purpose of course :-)
On the output of each of those Sinfonion channels you could connect those to a simple or complex oscillator, totally up to you. What I didn't do was that I connected the output of a channel first to an oscillator and then started to work on that sound of the oscillator. No, I worked the other way round, it could take me days till I found a nice kind of sound (or an interesting sound), once found only then I decided the channel I wanted to relate that "nice found sound" connected to the Sinfonion. Once I got then a nice tone pattern with/from the Sinfonion then I tried to kind of finalise that sound by an extra touch with yet another filter or effect.
But in the above example of "finding a nice sound" that usually takes some efforts and might use quite some modules to come up with that nice sound.
Once that channel was then ready, I then again started to look for another nice sound that took me again some time and lots of modules and then used that in context with yet another channel on the Sinfonion. Till the Sinfonion was fully fed (or connected all the channels) and then you can start using the Sinfonion in all its glory ;-)
But you are totally right, you need quite an already large system to be able to get the Sinfonion to its rights. ACL is mentioning that also, it's rather meant for medium till large setups than for small setups.
While you saving money for the Sinfonion, look if you have enough oscillators for 3 channels, chords and a nice arpeggio (with all the supporting modules that those oscillators might need). If you find here and there a lack of modules you can start working on that and when you think you are ready, get the Sinfonion :-)
But don't get me wrong here, I don't want to push or force you into any direction or whatsoever, you just do what you like. You don't have to get a Sinfonion. For your wallet it's much better not to take a Sinfonion, not only because of the costs of the Sinfonion but also because of the costs of all the modules you sooner or later will need to keep the Sinfonion (and yourself) happy :-D
Take a few days off and think about it, for these kind of big things you shouldn't rush into it and give it a few good thoughts. Meanwhile have fun with your modular synth and a good weekend. Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I had a look at Schneidersladen.de here in Germany but they don't have the Maestro module of Acidlab (but they do carry this brand), pity. Any website where I can check this one out?
Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Oh wow! What a beautiful sounds are you producing here?! It makes me speechless, just done with the Piston Honda (and some effects) or did that module got some more help there?
Ambient enough for me, but not long enough, this could go on and on and I would still feel it's too short :-) He, he, and a nice touch at the end of the track!
Nicely done and thanks a lot for sharing this! Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Fixed here on my side as well, it works! "It works"... that's putting it so mildly, what you are doing here is superb!
It's lovely to see this time a video of you at work at your beautiful setup! I enjoyed it a lot watching you, do your magic and provide us yet another fantastic entrance into a beautiful weekend :-D
Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
First off, all your thought processes do make sense to me there so that's great. I took a crack at this and had dropped it over in the other thread, so let me copy all that here. The rack I built out is half as big as the one you put together, and has a lot of the starter modules that will help you learn so that something like the SSF Tool-box isn't so intimidating. From where you're starting I think aiming for 104HP in 3U is a good step, and will let you develop your understanding and comfort without spending too much cash up front. Anyway, see below.
@Nabroc I had a minute so I took your original rack as a starting point and made some adjustments:
Notes:
1) I don't believe the Mantis has a 1U row, so I removed that, but much of what you had there I replaced in other utilities.
2) The Ginko looks like a sick module, but I'm wondering if you have to code with it? Either way I might nab one.
3) I replaced the Erica Synths clock module with a PNW (which is really fantastic).
4) Kept the Ladik LFO, it looks sweet.
5) I added a micro Rings since you mentioned wanting plucks and strings and it's a really great Euro module.
6) Swapped in a Maths plus an Intellijel Quad VCA, Maths is great, can do EG and LFOs for you as well as attenuation/attenuversion.
7) Added an FX Aid since FX in the rack go a long way.
8) Added in a Happy Nerding Stereo Mixer as it's reasonable priced, three channels should be good, and it also has a headphone out so you won't need another module.
9) A contender that didn't make it into the rack above is the 4MS Ensemble Oscillator. If you're interested I can make a version with that guy in there, but tons of experimental range and can sound sweet and sugary too.
This comes in a good bit more expensive than what you'd posted, and I'm definitely using a few popular modules here, but I think it'd be a good starting point for exploration and that empty row at the bottom will give you lots of room to expand as you learn.
Yes you can dim the brightness of the LEDs for the sequencer by rotating the bottom encoder of the Euclidian Circles. I am still learning it along with my Eloquencer and Metron. I bought a lot on sales so the year will give me time to learn the new modules and then create fun music! I think that with several complex sequencers and plenty of drum and effects, the options are endless.
Probably stock up on expanders for my Praga and Hexmixer at next sale and get a WMD Performance mixer at next major sale toward end of the year and more support modules like VCAs, logic, comparator and a monster Doepfer case to put on my Doepfer monster base then all good.
Oh that's nice to see that Christmas tree of a Euclidian Circles in action :-) Looks like a fun-to-play module, isn't it?
Any chance to reduce the brightness of those LEDs of the Euclidian Circles; small potentiometer for that or something? How tempting this module might be but if it burns your eyes out then I might need to reconsider it...
Ha, ha, indeed fun module for using in a club, then just get a bunch of 4 or 8 of those modules put them all together in a block. Put a camera on that block of those Euclidian Circles and project that on a huge screen, for sure everyone goes bananas ;-)
Nice one and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Did you guys there on planet Tryondip 59E managed to catch one of those old Russian satellites that was drifting off? ;-)
Well, come to our blue globe and we show you some more modular stuff here. Meanwhile enjoy your Russian stuff, and hope to meet you once again during one of my hyper-spaced journeys! Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Yeah I can make long drone next time and record it even for you all.
The module with all the buttons is my new Acid Lab Maestro super modulator! It lets you setup six channels of crazy modulation sequences and chain them together. Super fun and endless modulation possibilities. The other new modulator that I use a little bit for accents is the Rossum Mob of Emus which can be 6 LFOs or 6 oscillators and combos and more.
Both are very different sequencers in their approach. Eloquencer has more programming functions and is closer to the Vector sequencer. WMD Metron is a different beast- it can do basic things as well as more complex sequence patterns and save them like Eloquencer and Vector but it lacks reverse and probability features of these sequencers. Once I have more time and understanding of both then I will do a jam with both at the same time for comparison. I also have a smaller new trigger sequencer the VPME Euclidian Circles which is the opposite very bright lights that rotate in various colors and fun to create weird random patterns.
Here is a quick demo:
With the Euclidian Circles, it has an internal clock but that is hard to control and I prefer clocking it from a dedicated clock source like Pamela New Workout or Mordax Data. It is super bright enough to light an entire dark room so for a club scene would be fun.
I needed a small trigger sequencer for my 6u case after moving things over to the larger cases. Probably pair a drum voice like the VPME Quad Drum synthesizer or Endorphin.es Queen of Pentacles in the future for a small mobile beat boom box hehe.
Yeah, nice drone! I will not tell Troux that you are missing here almost 14 minutes ;-)
Regarding that new "rule" that a drone must be 17 minutes long ;-)
That module with a half million buttons on it, what's that exactly? I only saw the word "maestro" on it.
Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Yeah, and finally your Eloquencer arrived :-) So do I understand you correctly that the Eloquencer is ideal for more immediate usage while the Metron is the one for the complex sequence stuff?
Well, have fun with both sequencers and I look forward in watching a video of yours where you demonstrate them both at the same time! ;-) Thank you very much for sharing and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Ok @troux
This is what I came up with and of course its expensive as all hell just like I feared. I tried to think of options that gave me more variety. I didn't find SSF Toolbox, so I looked it up and honestly, I wouldn't even know how to use something like that. Like I said, I'm not that versatile in the knowledge of modular. I'm pretty basic when it comes to sound design. For instance, if you look at a few of my tracks below on my YouTube channel, I am VERY basic lol hence why I have been practicing with VCV Rack, but even then I still don't know how to use things SSF Tool box, or how to even work something like Maths to its full potential.
What I DO like about this build is that, I have all the functionality of things I want and know how to use. The quad vca is super helpful, as well as the triple lfo. I added a step sequencer to replace the lame S&H I had, and found a different basic 1U module that has S&H plus a noise generator. I still have the same Clock because I wanted a visual when it comes to tempo readings, plus i just like how it looks easy to use. I kept the Dual Attenuverter from Befaco, but if I have Maths as well, I have more options to attenuate/invert/slew signals, so I'm kind of debating on if I should just keep Maths and toss the Dual Attenuverter? (shrug) and the two random ADSR's, well, I just didn't see a whole lot of options when it comes to more functionality in 2 or less modules, so I just added the two by them selves. might add 3 if I can fit it somewhere.
As for the Oscillators, I wanted two basic ones that were cheap, one waveshaper by Erica Synths because I like their products, and I want it for more gritty/nasty sounds. As for the Instruo modules, I chose the Saich for super saws because I love making plucked deadmau5 kind of synths that arpeggiate, and that one is perfect when added to the right filter. Which btw, I love the Instruo filter, so I added that as well, but if you have better options on filters, let me know. I also added a fixed filter bank for more filter options. As for effects, I just wanted a simple delay and reverb, so I chose Chrono Blob, and Springray. And last but not least, I added a sampler just for extra effects, plus I've never tried a sampler before, so why not right?
So that's what i got.
What do you think can be added, taken away, replaced, etc?
Do you think a build like this is more or less versatile?
Should I have plenty of modulation options and functionality for the things I want to do PLUS more?
Or am I way over my head trying to do much with too little or vice versa?
thanks for your comment. Even with the factory vegetables (lol, wavetables ;)) the phmk3 is a fantastic module!
It's versatile and has broad spectrum of sound, nearly like no other wt-vco....
One more note, a contender that didn't make it into the rack above is the 4MS Ensemble Oscillator. If you're interested I can make a version with that guy in there, but tons of experimental range and can sound sweet and sugary too.
@Nabroc I had a minute so I took your original rack as a starting point and made some adjustments:
Notes:
1) I don't believe the Mantis has a 1U row, so I removed that, but much of what you had there I replaced in other utilities.
2) The Ginko looks like a sick module, but I'm wondering if you have to code with it? Either way I might nab one.
3) I replaced the Erica Synths clock module with a PNW (which is really fantastic).
4) Kept the Ladik LFO, it looks sweet.
5) I added a micro Rings since you mentioned wanting plucks and strings and it's a really great Euro module.
6) Swapped in a Maths plus an Intellijel Quad VCA, Maths is great, can do EG and LFOs for you as well as attenuation/attenuversion.
7) Added an FX Aid since FX in the rack go a long way.
8) Added in a Happy Nerding Stereo Mixer as it's reasonable priced, three channels should be good, and it also has a headphone out so you won't need another module.
This comes in a good bit more expensive than what you'd posted, and I'm definitely using a few popular modules here, but I think it'd be a good starting point for exploration and that empty row at the bottom will give you lots of room to expand as you learn.
>
I want to conclude by reiterating this general question: given the stated aim (the ability to generate a broad palette of interesting "experiemental" and evolving timbres and textures; generative patches; loads of modulation; loads of flexibilty; both control and room for the unexpected; a unique, personalized instrument), am I actually falling short functionality-wise in the sense of failing to realize the aim? I grant that the aim could be achieved differently and with smaller modules, but that's another matter.
-- wrecksmoondee
I think each of us has a different definition for "functionality," so your approach to a unique, personalized instrument is vastly different than mine, which is great. Yes, this will likely do the things you want unless your idea of experimental evolving textures includes sounds that you would find in something like the Spherical Wavetable Navigator, Panharmonium, Rings, or other wacky digital modules. I like some stuff like that, so your plan wouldn't be quite as functional for me.
Either way, it seems like you have a good understanding of synthesis. Dive in. Buy some modules. You'll know if your plan is a good one once you start patching. Have fun with it!
Nice, sounds like you have a good idea of where you want to go and the fact that you've been working with VCVRack is great. Now it makes sense that @Lugia gave you an "Ok" rating on your 3U row, his "Ok" being most people's "Well done" lol. So, next steps, the Mantis recommendation makes sense and seems to be the general path forward, but since you're just starting out I'd limit my initial buy to 104HP and then grow from there. If you set this rack aside (but keep it for comparison) and make a new rack with @Lugia's advice in mind, working to maximize functionality to HP, you should get pretty close and then we can review again. SSF Tool-Box is a great suggestion, and I'd also suggest you take a look at some of my favorite modules for this stuff, Kinks, Links, Cold Mac, Zadar, Batumi, Ochd, Intellijel Quad VCA, and of course Maths. Now, don't pick all of them of course, but a few would go a long way here!
@troux@Lugia
Basically, I've been practicing with VCV Rack. I use lots of modules with those exact functions. I just wanted something familiar. Not expensive. I want to be able to make kick drums, classic/experimental synth sounds, some bassy stuff, plucky synths, and that's kind of it. Its all I know really. Im not some wizard of sound, i just wanna make beep boops and be able to control it the way I know how. does that make any sense?
My goal this year was to build a modular system that I can use to create dance music that I make. I like to make house music with moogish drones, and plucked synth staccatos, strings, and bouncy bass, all that stuff. But i also want the luxury of experimental sound. Thats why i had a Sample and hold, so i could trigger it with a clock, send the signal to a atenuverter, send that signal to a quantizer, send the quantizer to a V/OCt, and generate some random tones. I dunno. just beep boop stuff.
@Nabroc, we've all been there, my first rack got radically revised on here too, and in particular did get much bigger. Could you start us off by sharing what you're aiming for here? Ambient? Noise? Classic modular sounds, or maybe just to explore? That should help us send you in the right direction.
Considerable changes...here we go... ...and it's still 100% Doepfer! Whatcha think? -- Lugia
Considerable changes is a considerable understatement; it's a radically different instrument! Before I go in to why it won't be my instrument, I want to thank you for taking the time to complete this exercise--it's like crosswords or sudoku, isn't it?--as it's helpful for bouncing ideas around.
I'm gonna bang on this a bit and see if I can up the functionality in some other ways as well...even while staying 100% Dieter here. -- Lugia
So, having studied your model briefly, my impression (and this could be founded on my own inexperience) is that more has been sacrificed than has been gained.
In opting for a "larger system" (15U is nothing to sneeze at, I think) I don't think I should have to sacrifice ergonomics to the slimline series, so I've deliberately avoided those. They were designed, according to Dieter, for situations such as the little beauty cases that people like to put together. I'm happy for a few fewer, but easier to "handle" modules. And, again, I don't think much (if any) functionality is lost in my case.
Some of the more interesting VCOs that I think would have offered a more interesting timbral palette (especially the A-110-4 Thru Zero VCOs) have been lost; this deviates from the basic aim of the build, namely interesting timbral variety.
The only thing that I can see that's got an exponential response is the A-138 in the lower cab. -- Lugia
I intend to use this as the final output, plugging either a pair of headphones into here or using a longer cable with a 1/4" adaptor to go into my external passive mixer (Art SPLITMix4) which connects to the home stereo system. From what I've read online, it's common to use the A-138 as the final output. Also common, from what I've read, is people using linear VCAs almost exclusively, even for audio, contrary to the received wisdom in lin=cv, exp=audio. So I think I'm going to try my luck with linear VCAs and adapt if the need becomes obvious.
Added an external input/envelope follower for processing external sources. -- Lugia
This, instead of the FX insert that I plan to use to bring a few interesting pedals into the signal path. You mentioned you were torn about the this module, but I'm keen the keep it along with the reverb and bit crusher, which latter ought to prove interesting for cv too.
And the 2/3/4-position VC Switch is down at the end of the sequencer, where it needs to be to shift from dual 8 to single 16 CV row behavior. -- Lugia
My impression is that the A-150 Dual VCS is sufficient for shifting from dual 8 to single 16 CV row behavior on the sequencer. Is that not the case? That would free up the s/3/4-position A-151 Sequential Switch for more interesting applications.
Plus, by swapping the sequencing modules to the "flat" row, you now have the system's primary controller where it belongs. -- Lugia
I've read that the sequencer or controller may not fit comfortably in the "flat" row due to the power supply; I had originally intended to place it there until I read that. It's not a dealbreaker for me at all.
So, I want to thank you again for engaging in this exercise with me. Given my resistance to your radical revisions, I imagine it might feel like thankless work, so I want to make sure I have enough gratitude buffer in here.
I want to conclude by reiterating this general question: given the stated aim (the ability to generate a broad palette of interesting "experiemental" and evolving timbres and textures; generative patches; loads of modulation; loads of flexibilty; both control and room for the unexpected; a unique, personalized instrument), am I actually falling short functionality-wise in the sense of failing to realize the aim? I grant that the aim could be achieved differently and with smaller modules, but that's another matter.
Damn .. way to rip my heart out and feed it to me...
But I guess you're right. I'm new to this stuff. I was just going for "affordable". I don't expect to get it right the first time. I thought building a system was easy and that something like this would work together nicely. I'm truly disappointed and now I feel stupid. Will you help me?
Love my PHmk3, that thing is bonkers, sounds kinda plain but I really love those faders, genius to place them there, makes the module really playable once you get to know the WT (or come with your own). Its great set of features, large sonic palette on offer and fantastic interface design makes it well worth the asking price IMHO.
Seems like the Sinfonion has won and I have to save some money in the next months..
Even though the NDLR also looks interesting, I didnt knew about that one, thanks! @Lugia
@GarfieldModular
Thank you for your detailed description! Definitely made me even more interested in that module and sure I know that the price has it reasons and that the sinfonion can be hell of a machine in the right system.
But this is also still one point that makes me feel sceptical about buying the sinfonion.
I've seen another post somewhere, where also somebody said that you will need a bunch of other modules before you can use the full potential of the Sinfonion.
I've just started one year ago and my rack is still a rather small one.
So what exactly does the sinfonion like to be fed with?
When I use the polyphonic mode of my Qu-bit Chord I have 6 voices/oscillators in total.
Unfortunately I don't really have a lot of utility modules so far.
In general my system is a rather simple one and I'm afraid that the sinfonion is too "big" for a system like that.
I really like Azewijn, you got some interesting sounds in that!
And about the woman in the video, I will keep an eye out, maybe I will find a creepy abandoned building with a nice system in it one day :-)
Good to hear from you Garfield,
Glad you enjoyed dEON.
Unfortunately is now quite as advanced as yours on Mother Earth. Most of our equipment is 1950s Soviet Bakelite transistor valve doo wop...
No worries. The PHMK3 on my wish list- for now been loving my crazy Hertz Donut, Schlappi Angle Grinder, and Rossum Trident complex oscillators. Those keep me busy for 2021.
Both Metron and Eloquencer are superb sequencer modules!
My Euclidian Circles v2 also arrived:
Very fun trigger sequencer and those lights are so bright they could light up an entire galaxy! I find it better to use an external clock for tempo as the internal clock is not precise. Anyways, 2021 will be the year of the modular sequencer and percussion modules for me besides the new effects like 4ms Dual Looping Delay and Noise Engineering Desmodus Versio. I still would like a multi-function FX module like the new Synthesis Technology E520 Hyperion processor or the 1010 fx box. Maybe end of year I get those as well as the mixer expander for my Befaco Hexmixer and Xaoc Devices Praga plus WMD Performance Mixer.
The only thing that I can see that's got an exponential response is the A-138 in the lower cab. However, since most everything IS linear, what you might consider would be to yank the A-130-8 and replace it with the A-132-4. This is a similar module with four exponential VCAs, and losing the other four linear VCAs really wouldn't be an issue if you dropped the A-138u for an A-132-1 to replace two that you'd lose. This would then give you six linear VCAs and four exponential.
Another idea would be to drop the A-138u, move the A-183-2 to where it was, then swap the A-133 for an A-133-2, thereby opening another 8 hp. At that point, you could then move the A-130-8 to that newly-opened slot and then put an A-180-2 mult next to it. This then takes you to 12 linear and four exponential VCAs...MUCH better.
I'm gonna bang on this a bit and see if I can up the functionality in some other ways as well...even while staying 100% Dieter here.
That was interesting...I still felt constrained by Dieter's module sizing + a few missing "go to" modules that weren't Doepfer, but I think these beefed up pretty nicely. Considerable changes...here we go...
ngin, Row 1: Added an external input/envelope follower for processing external sources. Then I put the buffered mult next to that, and added a dual slew limiter for portamento (#2 has direction selection). Eliminated some of the VCOs so that I could add a Quad VCO with a Quad VCA, which allows you to CV the mix of the four VCOs. A-110-6 remains, but then there's a uPVCO which is there as a "driver" for the PLL module. These last three generators are more or less intended as individual voice oscillators, but there is a small 4-in mixer there to allow mixing, if desired. After that is the Wave Mult I.
Row 2: Quad LFO with a 4-in mixer, which allows you to blend up complex modulation in a minimal space. Then the VC Delayed LFO went in, more or less an upgrade because of the delay circuit...very useful. I kept some of the quadrature functionality in with a VC Quadrature LFO; you don't necessarily hear quadrature relationships in audio, but for modulation, well...that gets interesting, with the ability to mess with phase. There's a point to it in a bit, same row. Then the A-143-1, and after it is a dual VC Polarizer, which allows you to tamper with modulation results even further. I made some significant changes to the VCF lineup, also...starting with the VC Xpander VCF (replaces the SEM VCF, as the topology for its 12 dB LPF will essentially be the same) which gets tandemmed with the VC Dual Crossfader (hence the Quadrature LFO) which allows you to "morph" between a few different VCF topologies, resulting in some potentially-complex VCF behavior that wasn't there before. Multimode VCF next, then your LPG.
Row 3: Noise/random/S&H starts this off, using that as a replacement for the original noise source to save some space. Then the VCS clones and the VCADSR. After that, I added two more non-CV ADSRs, which now brings the EG complement up to seven EGs totalled. Then the Bit Mod and Spring...although I admit to being a bit torn as to whether the Pedal Interface might've been a better fit for BOTH of these, allowing you to employ external processing for both slots. The BIG fix is next, though...you'll notice the Quad Exponential VCA right next to the 4-in Performance Mixer (and its output module). This NOW lets you have a stereo output from the synth, plus you also have an AUX send/return on the Output module so that you can parallel-process an effect (spring would work well with that). And you also get CV over your mix by patching each of the Exp VCAs to a corresponding Performance Mixer input. Again, you might consider using the Pedal Interface in both of these 8 hp effects slots, as this would then let you slot in any sort of pedal for both...and you can STILL use one of those as an AUX insert with the Performance Mixer.
ctrl Row 1: There's the A-149-1/2, then a Diode OR for combining gates...which is useful for various trickery with the Boolean logic module. A-152...then the Octal Linear VCAs, as these are better suited for CV and modulation, hence the relocation to the "ctrl" cab AND their relocation next to the Matrix Mixer, which then lets you have a similar CV capability as the audio mixing setup in "ngin"...but with VCA control over both the outs AND the ins of the Matrix Mixer itself, if you desire. A switched mult is next, which I added to help with performance-type CV bus switching on the fly. After that is the Dual Quantizer...so the Switched Mult can behave as a manual "router" for your quantized CVs between two different VCO groups.
Row 2: The clock mods are now paired with the Sequencer control for ease of patching. And the 2/3/4-position VC Switch is down at the end of the sequencer, where it needs to be to shift from dual 8 to single 16 CV row behavior.
Now...while making these changes, I tossed a lot of the less-densely-functional modules while trying to make sure that those functions were being replicated elsewhere, so that the functional density (and potential) of the build could be upped while losing as little as I could manage. A few functions didn't exactly make the cut...but not many, because once you start diving into how a lot of the added modules work and what they're capable of, you'll find that most everything from the original builds are still present...and by mashing the crap out of the space, it allowed me to drop in things that really up the capabilities of the build. Also, you'll notice that everything is function-grouped now, running left-to-right and up-to-down on signal flow. This also keeps the end of the audio at the bottom right of the "ngin" cab, making the entire "ctrl" cab purely control-dedicated. Plus, by swapping the sequencing modules to the "flat" row, you now have the system's primary controller where it belongs.
My concerns here are that there's too much attention being devoted to aesthetics and not enough to functionality.
-- Lugia
Thanks for your feedback, Lugia. I hear you, and I reckon that I could cram more in a smaller space by mixing and matching. But given what I've presented here and the stated aim, am I actually falling short functionality wise in the sense of failing to realize the aim?
To fill in the background a bit, I can confirm that I will be the only audience; this is a hobby instrument for my own pleasure, so aesthetics has its place; and I think the risk of an endless search for novelty/increased functionality is a real one--folks confess/lament it frequently, so I think a strategic buffer against that (by aiming to stick to Doepfer) might be wise.
Note, though, that you can get away with only linear VCAs in a build as long as you have exponential EGs to make them conform to the exponential loudness curve. -- Lugia
Any insight into whether these Doepfer EGs are exponential?
My concerns here are that there's too much attention being devoted to aesthetics and not enough to functionality. Doepfer modules are really excellent...but they're often pointlessly big, an issue which Dieter has been working on fixing with the new, smaller modules.
Take the A-141-2, for example. ONE single CVable ADSR in 14 hp, costs $190. But then, look at the Livestock Leap...also one loopable and CVable ADSR, but which ALSO offers offset and inversion. So, right there, you'd wind up eliminating the A-141-2...AND the A-183-2, AND half of the A-133. And it costs $5 less.
The real power in Eurorack and the plethora of modules that exist for it is in being able to mix and match things. Sure, it looks cobbled-together that way. But you can effectively jam MORE functionality into the same space, and in quite a few examples, you can save money while doing that. I wouldn't suggest making the various modules smaller in this size of build...but I do suggest that you can wind up with a far more potent system by NOT locking yourself into a certain "look", and building more along the lines of maximum capability. In the end, nobody cares what your system looks like, but they sure as hell will know that building for more function will equal far more musical flexibility...and THAT is what an audience looks for.
Oh, yeah...explaining linear and exponential...with LINEAR VCAs, envelopes, etc, you're imposing a change on a signal that follows voltage scaling. If you need to change the voltage scaling so that everything still tracks properly as far as CV values, you use those. It's also why linear VCAs are almost always DC-coupled, because they fit better at modifying CVs, modulation, etc. EXPONENTIAL VCAs, envelopes, etc, though are AC-coupled, as exponential relationships are what governs how we perceive "apparent loudness". Remember: the decibel scale is a LOGARITHMIC curve of values, and NOT linear. Note, though, that you can get away with only linear VCAs in a build as long as you have exponential EGs to make them conform to the exponential loudness curve. See here for a more in-depth explanation of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness
Yeah the WMD Metron is really fun! I am still learning it but not that bad- the Voltera and Axxent are key for adding spice to patches. I like being able to see multiple track sequences at one time and to quickly change all 4 tracks instantly on the fly with quick touch on the pads. Also can save the sequences on the SD card for future use and use random and probability patterns, add accents to beats. It really was made for percussion! That said, I also received the excellent 4ms Dual Looping Delay which is a super fun module for adding massive forward and reverse delays. Here is a video on it:
I did get carried away and it sounds more like space alien video games but that was the intention to make drums sound like something else. I am really enjoying the WMD percussion modules- very unique and can do traditional drum beats or weird stuff.
Also got first Hexinverter Mutant drum module the hi hats which is great. What can I say: sequencers, modular eurorack mixers, percussion modules and effects modules are super fun!
