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Hi CBD1000,

Indeed, the Five12 is less menu diving then I was hoping for, there is a little bit if it comes to global settings, then you have a few pages of settings. But important things like: pitch, gate, groove, velocity, (gate) length, repeat, ratcheting and chance are very direct. These buttons are on top of the module, just press one of those and you can directly set that corresponding setting. An example, you are at part 1 and you press the pitch button, then directly those 8 encoders below can be used to set or change the pitch for the first 8 steps. With the Prev & Next buttons you can then walk through your part if it's longer than 8 steps. Works very practical.

If you press the Part button and then let's say 4 then you get part 4 and then press the gate and you can directly change all the gates of part 4. It's really direct, at least that's how I feel it and I am not much a fan of menu diving. But I have to be honest here the Global settings is a bit of menu diving, still kind of okay for me.

It wasn't distance or switching reason for me to decide to go for a in-rack-solution for the sequencer, it's just that I love modular so much that I try to avoid as much as possible (well within certain reasoning/limits) the external device stuff.

I know what you mean with the Elektron, it's less direct control of your sequence. You can do a lot with it but you need to take your sweet time. For that purpose I am not saying the Five12 is a million times better however it is certainly directer in use than the Elektron is.

I just got that Five12 very recently, so currently I am using 4 voices at the same time, still wondering what I am going to do with the left over two voices, but no worries, I will find good purpose for them :-) I just managed to get the drums work via the Five12. That was, in my opinion, a bit difficult to understand from the manual. The manual could be a bit more extensive in my opinion but if you read carefully, most of it has been mentioned somehow... it's just... the manual is a bit too compact for my taste.

Once you know it though, it becomes clear, it's logical in use and it's just a pleasure to use it; it was just the initial setup for the drums section that was a little struggle because the manual is so compact that I had to read it thrice or something like that.

Well... I like to make things complicated. Simple things are pretty fast pretty boring to me, so I was on purpose looking for a sequencer that could do quite a bit but if possible with not too much menu diving, like this Five12 for example. My initial requirements where something like this: at least 4 voices, at least 8 triggers for drums/percussion, at least repeat & ratcheting functionality, at least possible directions: forwards, backwards, ping-pong and random, and a few other stuff but that were my main requirements. If you check that then against all sequencers, not many sequencers are then left to choose from.

Pity, I actually like the concept of the WMD - Metron, it can be easily extended with extension modules, I like that concept, however it only can run forwards... I have already a sequencer that only can run forwards, hence the Elektron - A4, that's the reason why I didn't took the Metron since I didn't want yet another sequencer that only can run forwards.

My very first choice was initially the Endorphin.es - Ground Control, I am interested in that sequencer since about early summer 2019 however after about almost one-and-a-half year of waiting and the Ground Control is still not available, I gave up on that one...

So that's how I end up with the Five12 :-)

Hi Gabor,

Nice to hear a jam from you again! :-) You got some real interesting stuff going on here. As usual a nice video to watch you at work too.

Ha, ha, that kind of bass thing that goes through your music at around 02:00, I love that sound, real nicely done. You make that even better around starting as from about 02:45, he, he, nice!

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi-

I'm putting together a 2021 rack, and would love feedback! This is my first crack at a larger rack system so I'd like to know if I missed anything or have too much/little of something else.

Looking to have (2) Arturia Rackbrute 6u together or side by side.

I currently have a 62hp palette and a 64hp skiff:

I'm not into any particular genre and want to have options to make a bit of everything.

Thanks for any help you can give!

Hi Sacguy71,

Yes, you are back! :-) I missed your videos the last... what has it been two weeks or so?

Interesting jam you got here and nice to see your cases. He, he, you got quite a "forest" of cables near the end of your video ;-) What's that device on top left of your A-100PMB rack?

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

The "lower-level" signal is still high enough that a 5V signal at one input can trigger modules connected to another input.

You should update the description to make this clear. It really limits what the module can be used for. In particular it cannot do what I bought it for.

patch notes:

• 0-coast osc is at least one octave above daisy osc, Tuned to the same note
• adjusting the muxslicer faders to taste (they can provide more movement to env lengths or bias range on marbles)
• sending marbles Y output into Maths ch. 3 to attenuate and pass onto ch 1 rise CV can produce some nice envelope animation
• sending the line output of 0-coast into triple wavefolder's Manual folding (VC 2) can make some interesting distortion and bring tones up front and higher
• adjusting how many gates fire per muxslicer step will change how many times the S/H gets a new sample and sends along to control Maths ch 1 fall
• clouds is in Pitch shifter/Time Stretch mode with the bipoler C channel of quadratt multed to control both blend and position for performative delay effects
• clouds is the final step of the signal chain before going into mixer

Mimeophon rocks so seems like a good choice.

The Kinks S&H will give you random values on trigger if you don't plug an input in. Doepfer also has a nice random module in 4HP.

Does anyone knows if its MPE compatible?

Signals present at one input are also present at other inputs. Is this actually a mixer or just a passive mult? Very disappointing, makes the module quite unsuitable for its intended purpose.
-- the-erc

Hi, thanks for your feedback. This is a passive module, signals are mixed through 10K resistors, so yes you can still hear a lower-level signal though the inputs. Works well as a quick and easy mix solution providing the other modules' ins/outs in the chain are buffered.

Noting a module change - I decided to return the Black Hole DSP 2 - Replacing it with a Mimeophon. I think the BHDSP does a lot of stuff, but I didn't think it did any of them that well. The max delay is too short for me (but it is great for phasing/flanging though) and the reverb didn't wow me either. And you can't sync it. I think I'll get along with Mimeophon better.

In addition to S&H, what else can I add for randomness/probability?

Cheers

Hey @Olias, you shared a link to an image of the grid, not the grid itself. If you share the grid we can copy it and make suggested changes as well as review your module choices better.

@sacguy71
Thanks that are quite some good tips. Pamela seems a rack-must have, as it is quite popular. The sequencers you recommending are quite advanced. Did you try out some rack space friendlier sequencers that offer quantisation + randomisation and scales (e.g. Scales from Intellijel)? For drum sequencing how important is accent for you? (e.g. Erica Drums have it but I could not find other sequencers that have this besides trig).

@Garfieldmodular
Ok, I understand. I checked the Five12 handbook already. Very deep functionality indeed. I had a bit the feeling that there is a lot of menu diving, but you already mentioned it isn't. What do you mean when you are saying you are preferring the "sequence-on-rack solution" among external gear? Is it about the distance or switching between devices or more a philosophic question?

I tried Elektron machines as well, but I am not fast enough on them to keep my musical rhythm flowing.

How many voices do you have usually running at the same time on your sequencer? Did you consider/trying the concept of a small sequence module per voice instead the all in one solution? As you have been researching a lot, can you please name a few sequencers you tried out and what you did not like about them? I would like to understand a bit why you ended up with the Five12.

Enjoy your weekend.

EDITED Feb 6th 2021, 18:43

Ha, cool! Yeah, sometimes it's hard to keep track of every option in all those multifunction modules with their Easter eggs and alternative firmwares... :)

Borrowed back my old 0-coast from my friend. I still find it an amazing instrument. Patch details in the video description.

not really - maybe move the neutron to the side so that the beatstep pro is nearer the modular

maybe get some longer cables - moving things around can be a good idea from time to time though

Signals present at one input are also present at other inputs. Is this actually a mixer or just a passive mult? Very disappointing, makes the module quite unsuitable for its intended purpose.

oh! and any thoughts on placement of the modules? right now I have the beatstep pro in front of the case and the Neutron just sits between the beatstep and the case.

Trying to have the best workflow

the buffered mult I got used at a good price. Any reason to swap it for a passive or something completely different? They don't take op that much space

I'm not to worried about if my build is large or not :-) I have one more case, the same size if I need it at one point. Right now im just exploring with the stuff I have and picking up a module here and there...

did some mix tape stuff tonite on modular

Hello, I thought I did provide a link. Did I do it incorrectly? Sorry, this is my first time posting on a forum here.

See the thread in the Patches section of this forum, the "Vocoder Patch", sometimes you need help of another member to remind you that you got already a module that has a certain functionality you were just looking for... sigh... ;-)

Again, thank you Senor-Bling :-)

Hi Senor-Bling,

Ha, ha, you are not going to believe this (and I feel a bit ashamed too)...

I have a Warps already! So, I am going to check this weekend the vocoder functionality :-) Thank you very much for mentioning the Warps and shaking me awake!

The Roland VT-4 is a nice little device as well, thanks for the hint, will check it out.

Have a great weekend and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi CBD1000,

Well my name is Garfield Modular, so I prefer a modular solution if it's somehow possible within acceptable reasoning ;-) That's the reason why I not really looked outside of the Eurorack for sequencers... having that said... I actually did a bit. I have an Elektron - Analogue Four Mk II and though it has a great sequencer, the issue with that one is that it has only one direction type and that's forwards... now I also like to have a sequencer that can go backwards or can do random, the Five12 can do that not the Metron from WMD ;-) Just teasing you Sacguy71 ;-)

I also had a look at the Arturia - Keystep Pro but I preferred an "in the rack" solution hence my choice for the Five12 - Vector sequencer. If you use the Jack Expander extension module from Five12 then you can have MIDI in and out as well. Without that extension module you have two MIDI out (3.5 mm mini-jacks). The Vector has USB MIDI as well, so that's yet another MIDI connectivity you have with the Five12 - Vector sequencer (also without the extension module). I am not using it yet, but it's all possible, just download the manual from the Five12 website and check it out.

Good luck with the search for the "perfect" sequencer, once you have decided please let us know and kind regards, Garfield.

Here is what has really worked well for my workflow on modular and sequencers of which I have quite a few now:

drums/percussion
- trigger sequencers are great with pattern save and recall: WMD Metron, Winter Modular Eloquencer

melody, pads, ambient:
- having ability to quantize to scales is super important! I love my IME/Harvestman Stillson Hammer because it has this feature plus internal clock option and 4 channels of CV control. I also use my Winter Modular Eloquencer as that has 1v/oct CV capable features like quantizer and scale modes

• ratcheting feature is super nice because you can get that Tangerine Dream sound going with duplets and triplets in sequences for melody.

A good central clock to tie them together and keep in sync is very important. I use either Pamela's New Workout or Mordax Data for my master clock to ensure the sequencers keep in time and sync.

Sometimes, no matter how many things you try, how many different ways you change the patch around, how many different settings you use on the modules, hell, even how many VCAs you employ, it still sounds like garbage. Sometimes you just have to pull the cables and go do something else.

Share your frustrations in this thread.

Hi at all,
I completed my build.
Now I'm playing some fast melodic sequences with some patches with maths.
I have yet to understand Quadrax but it fascinates me a lot.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/patches/modulargrid_73827.jpg
Thanks
FB

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zalmjqf3p3bsfic/IMG_20210203_213134.jpg?dl=0

EDITED Feb 5th 2021, 22:17

Ohhh a S&H is a good idea. I haven't had the results I was expecting for the Pro3's S&H LFO, but that could be user error. I'm also interested in the Disting since it seems to pack a lot of punch into 4HP. And I can't argue with more mults and the Links looks like a good option.

For another sound source I've been thinking about Plaits given its huge variety of sound options, and adding the Polaris filter to go with it.

I'm also thinking that eventually the Mother 32 will exit this rack to make room for other stuff. :-)

Cheers

EDITED Feb 5th 2021, 19:42

A good Sample and Hold (DivKid Rnd Step or an MI Kinks for example) and another voice (I'd pick a digital one) would let you add harmonies and layers, that's probably the direction I'd head in. In a rack this size I'd also be tempted by a Disting and by a Links to add some modulation mixing in a small packacge.

If you provide a link to the rack itself folks will be able to click through and get more details on the modules you've picked. One or two of them I'm not familiar with.

👋 Hey thank you. These are quite some very compelling lists not just for sequencing. Great work!

Can you let me know why you opt in for an ER sequencer instead external with MIDI > CV? I am thinking about using my Circuits which I find quite intuitive to use. They also allow MiDi parameter recording and I would free up some space on my rack. Same probably goes for sampling and mixing using external gear. ✌🏻

Hello all-I am building out my first rack, which I plan on using for live ambient improvisation. I have 6u x 84hp of space, powered by a uzues with 10 busses. I have a mother 32, rings/clouds duo, a dual 32 step sequencer, and a mixer so far. I plan on adding a 4ms dual stereo stereo sampler in the next week or two. What I need is modulation sources. I was thinking of either a turing machine or a mutable marbles clone, as well as a mutable stages clone. And for my remaining space a 2hp verb. Would this be a good setup? If anyone has advice or ideas for alternate modules that might be a better choice, I would love some feedback!

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1463389.jpg

There is a vocoder in Mutable Warps and Flame apparently have a vocoder module in the works for release in spring or so.
For a small external solution, there's also the Roland VT-4. It does have a few other nice features. But TBH I sold it quite quickly because the user interface makes the Disting feel intuitive. YMMV and such...

EDITED Feb 5th 2021, 07:14

Hiya Marinche,

I have in my head the range of sounds that I am looking to achieve with it - a slightly driven mutating rhythmic synth line that sits between the bass guitar and lead guitar lines - where in my music I have previously always used a guitar for this part.

The minibrute 2s gets me pretty close but lacks the voweling effect I am looking for (hence Plaits) as well as lacking fuzz, reverb and delay too. I am also not in love with the sound of the Steiner filter.

I love the sequencer on the 2S as am really only looking to get a few more modules to add a bit more modulation, polish and complexity to the sound it can already produce. My original idea was to get a rackbrute 3u and just 8 modules.

This will be my first adventure into modular and I am not wanting to go down the rabbit hole but rather looking to put together a musical tool that will be fit for purpose and have the main functionality I will need.

Jim also said I needed gates but I am a little confused as to what gate modules to look at and how they will offer me more than what the sequencer already does in that regard as I will not be using this for drum synthesis. I am a total newb so please forgive my ignorance.

I like self-generating-ambient as well as fast complex arps and sequences. I will be feeding in some sequences from my DAW and using my Pro3 for keys/arp/sequences and for its Gate and CV outs. More VCAs? ;-) What else?
Any useful recommendations are appreciated.

EDITED Feb 10th 2021, 12:42

Hi Farkas,

Ah yes, I forgot the new functionality on the MicroFreak, indeed it has vocoder functionality now as well. Hmm, not sure about the MicroFreak itself. I will give it a few thoughts.

Thank you very much for reminding me about the MircoFreak and kind regards, Garfield.

I thought the Arturia Microfreak vocoder examples I heard were really good. It also has the MI Plaits oscillator firmware and CV I/O if I’m not mistaken. I believe I also saw something about a Microfreak collaboration between Arturia and Noise Engineering. Might be worth a look.

Hi Farkas,

"Let your ears be your guide" is naturally a very good hint :-) So if I would follow up on that motto then it would be the VC340 from what I heard from examples on the Internet.

I was just wondering if I am not overlooking anything, if there is an interesting non-Behringer vocoder then I wouldn't mind to give such device a chance as well.

Kind regards, Garfield.

I would love to have a VC340. It really has that classic sound found on so many great albums.
I have not had much experience with the Novation gear in many years, probably since 2005, but I remember thinking the sounds were fairly high quality in that era of virtual analog.
Let your ears be your guide. :)

i really don't understand how can you plan buying the whole rack in advance?
i changed my mind 1000 times and today's rack is not even close to planned one.
you need gates and triggers.start with simple, explore and observe.
once you know what you need then it's easier to find it .
all of that modules looks easy for beginners because they see few knobs, but truth is I mastered maths after 2 years of learning..Have morphagene 6 months, barely scratched the surface.

Hi Farkas,

Thanks a lot for sharing your opinion on this matter. Hmm... yes... I noticed the Behringer VC340 as well besides it size, isn't there anything else on the market that can be newly purchased? I noticed the Novation MiniNova as well but are that the only two currently? Which one would be the better one the MiniNova or the VC340?

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

@GarfieldModular I seriously considered picking up a used Roland VP03 because it sounds pretty good, and I don’t have space to add a Behringer VC340. The Disting MK4 algorithm worked fairly well with very few concerns. I don’t need a vocoder too often, so it does the trick for me.

Hi Stolis and Farkas,

Stolis: Interesting that you came with this post, I was thinking of starting with a post as well, however I am looking for an external (decent) vocoder, any ideas?

Farkas: Oh that's good to know about the Disting, though I had read once the entire manual, I can't remember I saw the vocoder functionality, I might use my Disting Mk4 for just that purpose :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi CBD1000,

Sequencers is a large chapter on its own... that's never going to be easy and to be answered in just a few sentences or even in a few messages...

Having said that, let's give it a try :-)

I have intensively checked sequencers for Eurorack and I came to the conclusion that the ideal and perfect sequencer doesn't exist, same as the ideal and perfect synthesizer doesn't exist.

For details on my post regarding sequencers please check out this one:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/7899

For an interesting list of sequencers, check this link:
http://doudoroff.com/sequencers/

I ended up (after about one-and-a-half year of checking!) with the Five12 - Vector and the Five12 - Jack Expander module combination and so far I am extremely happy with it. It has a very direct control of it, almost no menu diving and still it's very clear what one is doing, changes have immediate (happy) effects, it's just a great thing to use. There is only one big con with this suggestion and that's the finance of it... other than that I can recommend it without any hesitation.

Good luck with it and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hi Modulargrid and Farkas,

Modulargrid: Great, thank you very much! 12 cores and 32 GB of RAM? Wow, then we have to increase our number of posts otherwise you have done all the great work for nothing ;-)

Farkas: Ha, ha, pretty good point actually, this modulargrid.net website is so successful that it keeps us away from making music ;-)

Great website and thanks again, kind regards, Garfield.

Disting has a vocoder algorithm. That’s how I have done it in the past.

Hey guys,

is it somehow possible to do a vocoder patch?

my idea is this:

mic audio out -> make noise ears in; gate out -> cv in of a VCA
cv keyboard pitch out -> v/oct in of a VCO -> filter in; filter out -> audio in VCA

i guess i need at least a 6 band filter in this case right?
or can i use any type of filter like a MMG from make noise, polaris etc.?

Hope someone can enlighten me

Hello,
I am struggling a bit with a good workflow to sequence modular.

What is your experience? What do you own? How is the setup / workflow. Why?
- How you use it
- Sequencing Melodies versus Drums
- Sequencing on rack versus MiDi / DAW
- Recording and recalling CV param.
- If you have any opinion about a specific device or Brand
- also what did not work for you and why?

🙏🏻 Thank You

Ok so I have thrown another version together in the order you suggest.

Overall does this solve my plumbing issues and offer (with the brute) a pretty cool synth for doing some cool rhythmic melodies.

Have I gone overkill on the plumbing or is that not a thing?

Any other modules i should aspire to? there seem to be some really cool mutable modules like warp that I don’t quite get what they actually do - am I missing out or not really.

hahahahahahahaha be scared, be very scared!!!!

not really! to be honest apart from the core of the video modules - which I sold 3 guitars and a bass to cover (I have more, don't worry) - I've not spent much more than your £300/month budget

you're not really missing anything from the 'big stuff' - it's the support modules that help them play together nicely that are missing

utility modules are the (mostly) inexpensive dull polish that makes the shiny expansive modules actually shine and not tarnish quickly

in your situation I would buy (maybe over time) the 6u rackbrute, maths, a filter that you like, veils - which also has a nice gritty overdrive, btw - an fx aid xl - and a disting mk4* - and then stop and just play with those for a few months

• disting is fantastically useful - it has a lot of uses and can be both a learning tool and a stand in for other modules as required - a lot of people take one look at it and go - "ah a menu, not for me" - a lot of others buy it to try and don't get on with it - mostly because they are constantly fiddling with it to try every algo there is rather than spending some time setting up favourites and have issues reading large manuals - everytime you swap the algo it's like a new module - but a lot of the i/o is similar etc etc - ie the positives far outweigh they negatives, especially in a smaller rack - I will always keep mine - despite to a large extent having physical modules for most of the functions that it provides - I use the tape delay a lot - and some of the functions are in the I just might need that some day category (also one of very few modules with a pitch follower - which is useful if you are using external instruments - as is an envelope follower)

EDITED Feb 4th 2021, 19:00

I am up for getting maths first.
I am slightly scared that I am opening this Pandora’s box that leads to your 100+ Modules!
I am cool with going to the 6u.
In this case you suggest I need more plumbing and should be getting another LFO module, VCA module and envelope/Adsr module as well as another multi or a mixer module but what am I missing here from the big stuff I would/should want to use?
I thought about an Erica graphic VCO for a more FM sound perhaps but it is not really the vibe I tend to go for but 80’s in quite in at the moment.
I am not in love with the Steiner filter in the brute to be honest. I would really like a more organic sounding filter. That was my thinking with the Polaris.
Distortion and delay were, to my musical pallet, the first two things I really felt the brute was lacking for how I wanted to use it but this might just be because I don’t know any better and these are the traditional things I understand. I would like these to be modules rather than pull apart my pedal board or reallocate it to my synth setup.
I am also going to say something really stupid here but doesn’t the brute 2s’s sequencer do quite a lot of what a gate module would do? He says running for shelter from the barrage of criticism about to come his way :-)
Everything will clock to pro tools or I will use the MPC that has cv out and my plan is for the mono out from the brute to go straight into the sound card as well as the stereo out from the delay going into the desk and on an insert into the sound card too so that I can record both and use either and reroute dry or wet etc.
Thanks so much Jim for all your help and advice, It is really kind and helpful.
I might put together a virtual 6u for your critique.