Hi GarfieldModular,
thanks a lot for your very kind words. I feel very honored... it makes my weekend even better...
All the best
All good points.
Creative process is what led me down the modular hole. My Schlappi Engineering Angle Grinder and 100 grit modules arrived today and they were a joy to just patch and tweak for some otherworldly tones. I am still reading manuals and videos in between but the experimental side is what I really enjoy the most. I like these weird do cool modules that regular synths and computer VSTs cannot achieve without great programming efforts where a couple patch cables will do the trick for 1-2 modules.
Some filters invert the signal. This is the cause of the stereo image flipping in mid/side chain.
Here's the maths. There should be a lot of dividing by two to make this work exactly, but for simplicity I'm going ignore that. To start with :
M = L+R
S = L - R
Normally I retrieve the stereo signal by doing the same trick again :
M + S = (L+R) + (L -R) = L
M - S = (L+R) - (L -R) = R
But if I pass S through an inverter to get
S' = -S = R - L
When I recombine I now :
M + S' = (L + R) + (R - L) = R
which is not the side I was expecting!
Incidentally, a simple way to make a high-pass from a low-pass is to invert the low-passed signal and add it to the unfiltered signal. I guess this is exactly what the Doepfer Wasp is doing.
Latest stuff : https://soundcloud.com/user-352590333
Hi Klngvrhltnss,
Thanks a lot for the information and the hint, I will give that a try with my SumDif module :-)
I read the link you provide, not all yet, however one question arises... how to take a voice more into the front of the stereo view and how to put for example another (less important sound perhaps) to the back of the stage?
Sorry, that I can't help you with your question. Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Hi @GarfieldModular, I'm splitting the stereo signal into its sum (all info, that is the same in L and R) and its diff (all info, that is different in L and R) signal. Those are mono signals of their own, and can be combined, after processing, to form a stereo signal again. That's the wonders of Mid/Side processing, a commonly used mastering techniques. In Eurorack you can do that with modules such as the Worng LRMSMSLR or Shakmat SumDif.
Hi Rassell,
Wow, that's something nice there man! You got a lot of surprise sounds in there that I really like :-)
Oh, and then your video with a beautiful view of your modular setup and seeing you here at work, that's so great and so enjoyable to watch! I like the "bird view" moments in the video as well, nice touch :-)
If you would tell me you are in real J.M. Jarre or Vangelis (your music sounds a bit too modern for Vangelis, so I would go for J.M. Jarre) and you are just using here a nickname, then I would believe you! :-) This is serious good stuff and very entertaining!
You must be nuts to start from scratch and break down this setup, it's so nice! It hurts me that you tell us this ;-)
Now I finally got a good beginning of this weekend (thanks to you!), thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield Modular.
P.S.: And I am going to click on the play button again, there is so much to discover here in this track of yours!
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Hi Defragmenteur,
You got some interesting sounds there :-) I am especially impressed by those almost kind of percussion sounds that kind of tick-tack through it, sounds very intriguing!
Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Hi Klngvrhltnss,
I have difficulties to pronounce your name ;-)
To be honest, I don't get your point here. I am most probably not understanding what you try to say: How can a mono-filter like the Doepfer A-124 Wasp filter inverts your stereo image. I am having difficulties to understand that...
Kind regards, Garfield Modular.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I've been playing around with Mid/Side processing, lately. I'm using the Worng Electronics LRMSMSLR to split my stereo signal into one sum (the Mid) and one diff (the Side) signal. Thus Mid and Side can be processed independently and differently, before being converted back (added) to a usual left/right stereo signal. This can create some interesting, special and great effects. I use this method inside my system to gain a wider stereo image by processing the Side signal as follows: cutting its low end, boosting its mid frequencies and raising its volume. Works pretty well. However, I came across one problem, that made me wonder:
Running the Side signal through certain modules inverts the stereo image, i.e. sounds that are in the right channel before processing are in the left channel after processing and vice versa. I investigated that mostly with my filters: North Coast MSK 009, Doepfer A-124 Wasp, Noise Engineering Viol Ruina. Pretty interesting results. Using the MSK 009 inverts the signal, no matter if the HP, BP or LP output is used. Using the Viol Ruina outputs does not invert the signal. Using the BP out on the Doepfer Wasp inverts the signal. Using the LP/HP out on the Doepfer Wasp inverts the signal, when Mix is in LP position (ccw), but does not invert it, when Mix is in HP position (cw).
I understand how filters function in a analytical/mathematical way, but I'm definitely lacking electronical knowledge to comprehend what could be causing this different and strange behaviour.
Can anyone help to clarify?
In case anyone is still looking at this thread.... here's some revisions I might shoot for before giving in to a bigger case
I played around with this for some days. And now the end is near, I will start from scratch tomorrow. Here ist what I came up with...
Thanks, will check on that. Worth notice - I havent yet bought Crater and crucible yet, i think BIA is making some really punchy and hard kicks but its so useful as well for other sounds. maybe overwhelming to have crater as well? It sounds so damn good though...
Maybe instead of buying the crater (or) crucible it would be a option to buy the ataraxic/cursus iteritas, Thats a really nice wavetable vco imo.
VCO makes sense, but I'm more prone to suggest taking that further. Instead of just one VCO, try a Zlob Dual VCO (4 hp) and tandem that with a Ladik O-410 suboscillator (also 4 hp). That way, you get two VCOs for detuning (sounds bigger) AND octave division (major bass) that tracks one of those VCOs. Now THAT would BANG!
Since you're in a module-dumping mood, I decided to push that a bit further...
A lot of the original is still in there, but I altered the layout for a bit of coherence and ease of use. The Quadnic now has its own summing mixer, as does the Plaits, A-110 and A-115. Then, a new thing from Alright, their Zzzorb state-variable and VCA combo is before the Rings. Then a proper pannable stereo mixer ends that row.
The bottom row has the modulation components. I started with a Kinks, so as to add some basic logic for timing to mess with, a bit of a rectifier/waveshaper, and a sample and hold with a white noise source. Marbles, then Ochd, then a Triatt for summing some of the Ochd outputs, or mixing those with the Maths (got rid of the Contour...why have one when two is better?). A pair of ADSRs for more straightforward envelope use, then the new Veils which brings the VCA total in here to five. The uBursts is next...and then there's the OUT. That last thing is super useful because not only does it give you isolated stereo outs, it has a second stereo IN with a ganged level control, which would be perfect for mixing the stereo out from the uBursts "voice" into the general mix. And you get a headphone preamp, too. And metering.
I did kick out the passive mults (use inlines instead...makes more sense with this small a build) and all of the Intellijel audio mixers because they just didn't seem to be a good fit here. Instead, the Triatt allows polarization of mod signals in addition to mixing, and the ability to invert mod signals was pretty lacking here in the first place. And the HN PanMix jr. DOES allow stereo panning whereas the Intellijels didn't. By and large, though, this retains much of your needed signal paths while adding some extra functionality to push the build even further. In cases such as the Doepfer mixers, I simply shrunk them. Plus, the Zzzorb will give you way more timbral flexibility than the A-120 ever could.
So, yeah...if you go further here on dropping modules out, this might be a good direction. Denser functionality, for one thing, will push the build way past what it was capable of previously. As for other changes, the Plaits/A-110/115 combo still kinda bugs me (the A-110 is pretty deep by present-day standards, and there's smaller octave dividers out there) and that would be what I would look at next, perhaps by going with smaller Plaits clones (2 > 1, after all), a different VCO (double?), and a proper waveshaper + divider combo with Tiptop's Fold Processor or some such. Although, the rectifier and logic sections of the Kinks can also serve as very useful waveform manglers in their own right, so maybe just a divider would work there.
Any reason (such as remaining power connections) why it couldn't be 2 modules that will fit 8hp?
-- merzky_shoom
Two modules could be fine as well, do you have something in mind?
Any reason (such as remaining power connections) why it couldn't be 2 modules that will fit 8hp?
What kind of music are you making? Do you have other external gear?
edit
I would probably lean towards a multi-function module like the Disting EX. If you like your rack as-is, the Disting EX would give you access to just about anything else you might need. Sample and Hold, quantizers, noise, wavetable VCO, LFO, tuner, delay, phaser, sample playback... That's probably how I would fill that hole anyway.
Have fun and good luck.
Hi,
So im crazily happy with my rack at the moment, but I want to fill my last 8HP and im kind of stuck what to do about it and wonder if what you would've added? Would be great with some suggestions since im totally blank of alternatives,
the only thing ive thought about was to get a proper vco - Dixie II but im open for suggestions,
best
Lugia, thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed answer! It does look like a really versatile build, I will make sure to check out every module you listed here. Cheers!
The operation of the pots seems very smooth with no jumpiness and no crackles or noise at the output.
mine still has crazy high frequenzy noise issues :/
any ideas?
My actual rack in use, 8+6 HP freed up, looking to add some new things.
Got rid off some stuff and have 8+6 hp free to add some new stuff. No idea yet what it should be.
Such a great discussion and I waited on larger modules until I had a much larger case and even then I made sure to get plenty of support modules like attenuators, cv mixer, logic, vcas, etc. It really makes a difference and with that can get a few sound sources but need lots more modulation than expected. A lot of modules like Noise Engineering have tons of cv patch points begging to be modulated and mixed. I make use of matrix mixer and quad LFOs quite a bit now. I find that having 2-3 oscillators and a filter or two go a long way with the support modules. I have Quadrax with the QX expander in my smaller case and it is amazing! I recommend Pamela New Workout as that does so much as well. Lately in a larger setup, I am having a blast with Erogeneous Tones Radar for 8 envelope/function generators and that is one modulation powerhouse and you can expand it with Blip as well.
-- sacguy71
Thanks for the advice and recommendations, I'm thinking a Pam's is definitely on my list. Honestly this thread is starting to make me question my entire approach and setup which I guess is a good thing.
Such a great discussion and I waited on larger modules until I had a much larger case and even then I made sure to get plenty of support modules like attenuators, cv mixer, logic, vcas, etc. It really makes a difference and with that can get a few sound sources but need lots more modulation than expected. A lot of modules like Noise Engineering have tons of cv patch points begging to be modulated and mixed. I make use of matrix mixer and quad LFOs quite a bit now. I find that having 2-3 oscillators and a filter or two go a long way with the support modules. I have Quadrax with the QX expander in my smaller case and it is amazing! I recommend Pamela New Workout as that does so much as well. Lately in a larger setup, I am having a blast with Erogeneous Tones Radar for 8 envelope/function generators and that is one modulation powerhouse and you can expand it with Blip as well.
2 x 104 makes a LOT more sense, especially since it's commonly and CHEAPLY available thanks to Tiptop and their Mantis case. Also, one best-kept secret might be found by checking out Erica's cases; they have a 3 x 126 for about $550-ish with beefy power. It's a little shallow, but as long as you stay under 45mm on depths, you're golden. Plus...the guitar can still go into the modular via the A-119. You lose the stereo return, but the "abuse potential" there is pretty massive with its envelope follower. Run the guitar through something like a Dynacomp to pull the level up on sustain, then just mix it like another "oscillator" while using the envelope follower to control VCF/VCA behavior.
And following on farkas' lead, here's this:
Again, the 0-Coast is NOT in this build. Keep it in its own cab. I left it here so that its functions can be evaluated alongside the actual build itself.
Top row: THREE oscillators; I figured that if the room's there, why not have BOTH Mutable oscillator clones? So there's a uBraids and a uPlaits, plus the Dixie2+. Next to that is a screwy Recovery device, their Motomouth, which is a cross between a ring mod and a waveshaper, then a 3-in mixer for summing oscillators. Added a second Cinnamon, then the PanMix is where you'll find the audio VCAs...just use the channels in manual pan mode. Then...yep, I KEPT the Magneto! After that, there's a Happy Nerding Isolator, which I really like for stereo outputs because it isolates the synth from any crud that might come in via the output lines.
Bottom row: I moved the P/S here; if it's possible to move it there, this keeps it away from the audio chain somewhat. If not, simply reverse the top and bottom rows. Then everything's the same as farkas' version until you hit the Kinks, which adds some basic waveshaping, logic, a sample and hold, and a white noise source. After that...a Noise Reap uLOAF, which is a twisty dual LFO with some crossmod capabilities. The 3xMIA is next, then the Maths, 3xVCA, Quadrax, and I added the Qx so that the Quadrax's envelope gens can be chained.
The "voice" part might seem a little short, but it's actually pretty well-featured with three oscillators, waveshaping, ring mod, summing, two SVFs, and six VCAs with panning in the PanMix. Pretty much everything you need...for TWO voices, if you felt like it, even! And then it all goes thru the Magneto. Where this really shines, though, is in the modulation row on the bottom. I was thinking ahead there, also providing modulation sources that could be broken out to the 0-Coast. Plus, the build is designed so that it integrates the 0-Coast better while keeping it out of the main cab. And this should ALSO play really nicely with the 2s; pairing this with a sequencer is pretty damn close to perfect now. It doesn't address the modules that are already ordered, but if you go with those in this small of a cab, we're back to square one with big modules and nothing to make them really GO. In this sort of space, smallER (not small, period) is better...even if I did manage to keep the Magneto in the build!
Oh, good lord...
You ORDERED this? First up, you have things in here that will NOT work in this configuration. The Doepfer "mixer", for example, isn't going to mix ANYTHING without the output stage. This is also VERY dependent on the 0-Coast in there (where it really shouldn't be, since 0-Coasts have their own cabs and power) for filtering, proper envelope generation, and so on.
This is "sexy module syndrome" taken to the usual, horrible extreme. What boggles my mind is that you admit that you don't know what you're doing, BUT YOU BOUGHT THIS ANYWAY! Yep, you'd better be anxious...because it's probably going to take ANOTHER Rackbrute 6U to house modules that can make this build work. Far as I'm concerned, you've made a grave mistake in dropping a wad on this and then expecting to get a workable synth. You won't. The only thing in here that's useful is, in fact, the 0-Coast...which you might've just gotten in of itself and learned loads more than this rack will provide.
If you can cancel the order, I'd suggest you do so.
-- Lugia
This is needlessly hyperbolic. There are plenty of people who come in here planning a 104hp skiff that is Morphagene + Mimeophon + Arbhar + Magneto + Hermod, with no idea how it will actually function. That is "sexy module syndrome taken to the usual, horrible extreme." But this system is nothing like that.
These are all perfectly functional choices, aside from the mixer... there are just a couple things missing (others have given you great suggestions on that front). Taking the O-Coast out of the rack will provide more than enough room for those modules. You do not need to add "ANOTHER Rackbrute 6U" to make this a terrific small system.
Thanks Garfield, I will need to check it out since I also play guitar and have a pedalboard.
I think that Eventide makes some really good FX modules for Eurorack and they also have the H9 that can be used with both guitar and modular. So perhaps Strymon Magneto and Eventide EuroDDL Eurorack Delay would be worth getting for my larger cases and FX Aid and Erica Synths Pico DSP for my smaller cases. I like the delay and bit crusher effects so far in my new Disting EX Alpha module that I use in my portable Doepfer 6u suitcase. That is a fun module since it really is a swiss army knife of modular. I was using delay/reverb from my external mixer but after getting Mimeophon, using effects in modular direct is way better!
OK...what I opted to do here is to follow your ideas of what needed removing, then I went further and rethought how the degree of functionality could be upped to the level where you've got a REAL laptop troublemaker. And this is that, I think...Many things got changed, partly to avoid leaving out various utilities, but also to shrink/alter a few things so that there's more going on. Plus, I added an external processing bit so that, if you're feeling like adding some external creepy noises and then screwing with them, you can. So let's start there...Doepfer A-119 + a Happy Nerding TriTone parametric EQ with CV control. You can send things into the synth with this, extract envelopes and gates from the audio signal, and then mess with this timbrally via the EQ. Grabbing a contact mic would be recommended, also.
After that, we get into the synthesis section...the first thing there is a Cavisynth Bufflide, a buffered mult (needed now) plus a slew limiter for portamento effects. Then the big bank of VCOs, courtesy of a Doepfer A-111-4 Quad VCO. Four VCOs is nice, especially if they're matched so that you can do some neat detunings. But I wasn't content with that, so next to it is an Antimatter Crossfold. This is a very interesting waveshaper/folder/combiner module that can take TWO oscillator outputs and more or less slam 'em into each other for radical timbre changes before you even get to the VCF. Right after this is a little 4-in mixer to sum the VCOs/Crossfold down to send to the VCF.
The VCF here is a very versatile, complex one...Xaoc's Belgrad. This thing loves external modulation, has lots of different modes, and can do vocal formants and some odd crossmod and internal feedback, in addition to being a dual-peak multimode VCF. But I wasn't content with JUST that, so for some percussive sounds I put in a Make Noise Optomix, which gives you a pair of lowpass gates. These can be fed by the noise generator for electronic percussion sounds, or you can process most any other audio source with these, plus they sum down to a single output if that works for a given situation.
I put in a Codex Modulex clone of Veils next so that you can actually have a degree of VCA control over audio levels going into the Doepfer A-138s. Then the audio path actually moves down to the Mimeophon (replacing the Morphagene, which loses a bit of functionality but which allows for more space) and the uBurst (replaces the fullsized Clouds clone) before it goes to the Happy Nerding Isolator for a stereo output level + transformer isolation. The nice thing about that, also, is that you can overdrive the transformers for some extra warmth. The idea here, though, is that these three modules are after the A-138s above them, and you can control the balance between effect and dry via the wet-dry controls on the modules themselves.
Bottom row: added a Doepfer A-118-2 so that you now have a noise source, plus a random voltage source and a sample and hold. I left the Maths (why not, right?), then added another little Doepfer module with four free-run LFOs. And right after it, there's a Tenderfoot attenuverter/mixer that allows you to break out each attenuverter, if needed. But the next thing is just nuts...
That next thing is an After Later BLEND, which is just nuts, really. It's a dual VCA, but it also contains a minimum/maximum discriminator and a comparator, all of which has plenty of abuse potential. Then, envelopes...I opted here for an Intelljel Quadrax with its Qx expander, which gives you four AR, or ASR, or looping envelopes with several shapes, plus the Qx allows these to be chained in different ways to add yet another complex modulation source.
Now, you'll notice that most of what WAS there now ISN'T. And a lot of that comes down to those modules being just too damned BIG. Especially in a 2 x 84 cab. With a situation like that, it's necessary to squeeze things majorly in order to get everything needed in there, to say nothing of trying to add functionality. I also got rid of some things that were rather unnecessary, such as the Strymon AA. But the major thing that was removed, and which I had some misgivings about removing, was the Hermod. I really did NOT want that out of there, but it's such a huge honker that if I was going to set up any sort of workable modulation chain, it needed removal. My suggestion with it would be to either put it into a powered 4ms Pod of an appropriate size, or consider going to a different outboard multichannel sequencer, or perhaps even a sequencer/controller combo such as an Arturia Keystep Pro.
Now, if this were in a 2 x 104 cab, things would be rather different in what could stay and what would have to go. That might allow the Hermod back in, allow the Morphagene instead of the Mimeophon, etc. But I'd still strongly recommend eliminating the Clouds clone in favor of the uBurst and adding the u4xVCA instead of a Veils because the space saved here would still be useful for other things. And as for the Quad VCO, the Doepfer VCOs might be a little basic-sounding, but with the Crossfold plus the Belgrad, they won't sound basic at all. And you get an external in with some CVable timbral control so that you can mic up acoustic sources. Like I mentioned earlier, these things are excellent with contact mics, and you'll be surprised at just what creepy and weird sounds are lurking right at hand, all ready to be fed into this thing. Lots of possibilities here now...
-- Lugia
Hey Lugia! For some reason when I looked at your post earlier I did not see the whole bottom half!
Wow thanks for taking the time to do this, that is really awesome. Very helpful walkthrough and it has sparked ideas already. Only thing I will say is strymon AA is necessary for me, I forgot to mention this also doubles as a guitar effects processor for me with that module.
I'm thinking after all the knowledge y'all have blessed me with here, I might be leaning towards going up to 2x104hp and doing some adding and swapping.
Thanks for the insight Lugia! Any particular utilities that weren't already mentioned in mind that you think might be worth swapping in?
-- enlargedgarbage
See above...I added a major variation to your initial build there.
As far as patch ideas, you and I probably have very different creative workflows. We certainly have different modules. I'm not all that familiar with Hermod or SMR, so I can't speak much to the capabilities of those. I like a lot of repetition with subtle (almost imperceptible) changes, so I would probably be bouncing elements between Morphagene and Clouds in Looping Delay mode, subtle modulation, subtle addition and subtraction of elements, volume swells, happy accidents... kind of a musique concrete approach. I also like to add semi-random ratchets to a repetitive but slowly morphing 8 step sequence over another sequence of, say, 24 steps, and another element of, say, 36 steps for kind of a Tangerine Dream vibe. I don't know if Hermod can do ratchets though.
Do you have an external drum machine? Sometimes starting from a skeletal percussion line will lead you to new rhythmic and textural ideas with the melodic voices.
If you are looking to do more generative stuff, you will probably want to add something like Triple Sloths, Wogglebug, or something similar. I'm a huge fan of Pamela's New Workout for syncing everything. Ochd is a cool little multi-LFO, Sequential switches and long envelopes/slow LFOs through modulated VCAs will lead you in some fun directions. I've held off on picking up uO_C (Ornament and Crime) because off the menu-diving, but something like that or a Disting Mk4 might give you some options too.
It's hard to fit everything you need into a small case. I would recommend expanding, as Lugia mentions, to fit in all of the utilities and modulation you need before you sell anything. You have the big pretty modules and aren't getting the most out of what you already have. On the other hand, don't be embarrassed of buyer's remorse if you know a module isn't working for you. Sell it for a small loss and move on quickly to something that will inspire you for years to come. Just do your research first so those mistakes become fewer and farther between. Above all, have fun with it.
-- farkas
Man thanks so much for all of this, it's very helpful for me.
Not familiar with ratchets but I will read up on them. I love musique concrete and TD so I'm definitely into your ideas. After reading this I'm starting to thing a big issue with me is that I am not planning my modulation well enough and it's not as subtle as it should be. I find myself sometimes just trying to arbitrarily modulate things as much as I can and I think thats been a detriment to my process. Also I guess I should stop trying to implement every aspect of every module into every patch and maybe try and start off focusing on a just a simple chain and build out from there.
I have a Digitakt and I love it, that's honestly one of the reasons I wanted the hermod so I could easily clock everything from the digi. But for some reason I've been obsessed with the idea of making full pieces with just the case and nothing else lately. Not even sure why, might be some kind of weird OCD tick (only halfway joking) B^).
I dont think I have unlocked hermod's true potential in my process yet so I'm definitely going to hang onto it, but I have to admit I am not crazy about the interface for entering sequences on this thing at present. I'm trying to get used to it. The ochd is something I've been thinking of getting and maybe a uO-C as well, even though I totally hear you with the menu diving. I actually had a disting in my last skiff and I didn't enjoy using it as much as I thought I was going to, although I probably should have spent more time with it.
Perhaps expanding to 2x104hp and selling my trogotronic case isnt a bad idea. I do have to say I really like the ruggedness of this case though...
Thanks again for the recommendations.
As far as patch ideas, you and I probably have very different creative workflows. We certainly have different modules. I'm not all that familiar with Hermod or SMR, so I can't speak much to the capabilities of those. I like a lot of repetition with subtle (almost imperceptible) changes, so I would probably be bouncing elements between Morphagene and Clouds in Looping Delay mode, subtle modulation, subtle addition and subtraction of elements, volume swells, happy accidents... kind of a musique concrete approach. I also like to add semi-random ratchets to a repetitive but slowly morphing 8 step sequence over another sequence of, say, 24 steps, and another element of, say, 36 steps for kind of a Tangerine Dream vibe. I don't know if Hermod can do ratchets though.
Do you have an external drum machine? Sometimes starting from a skeletal percussion line will lead you to new rhythmic and textural ideas with the melodic voices.
If you are looking to do more generative stuff, you will probably want to add something like Triple Sloths, Wogglebug, or something similar. I'm a huge fan of Pamela's New Workout for syncing everything. Ochd is a cool little multi-LFO, Sequential switches and long envelopes/slow LFOs through modulated VCAs will lead you in some fun directions. I've held off on picking up uO_C (Ornament and Crime) because off the menu-diving, but something like that or a Disting Mk4 might give you some options too.
It's hard to fit everything you need into a small case. I would recommend expanding, as Lugia mentions, to fit in all of the utilities and modulation you need before you sell anything. You have the big pretty modules and aren't getting the most out of what you already have. On the other hand, don't be embarrassed of buyer's remorse if you know a module isn't working for you. Sell it for a small loss and move on quickly to something that will inspire you for years to come. Just do your research first so those mistakes become fewer and farther between. Above all, have fun with it.
So lately I've been trying to create patches with this thing solely inside the box. I understand that it's a small rack, and limited in capability in many areas. But I've seen so many videos of people who seem to be pulling much more interesting stuff out of similarly sized setups. I'm thinking of switching a few things up. But before I do that, I wanted to pick the brains of the much more experienced here and just kind of get some idea on how y'all would go about patching something up using only whats in the box here.
-- enlargedgarbageActually, I wouldn't...at least, not without some significant changes. The most likely reason why others are getting more out of their similarly-sized builds is because those contain the proper "utility" modules alongside these others. Without those, you're drastically limiting what the main modules are capable of.
The other issue here is that you've opted to put a bunch of very large modules into a small box. This never ends well. Invariably, the utility modules and other little boring-looking widgets get crowded out by the big "sexy" stuff, usually because...well, utilities are boring, they lack lots of lights and such, so they're generally the first to (incorrectly!) go. On the other hand, I'm NOT advocating that you should jam a bunch of 4 hp and down modules in here. But you've also noticed that this is a problem, apparently, since you're opting for chucking some of these. Hm.....
-- Lugia
Thanks for the insight Lugia! Any particular utilities that weren't already mentioned in mind that you think might be worth swapping in?
Hi Mowse,
Yes, I totally agree here with Zuggamasta, it's such a pleasure to listen to your jams :-) Nicely done, yet again! :-)
What effect are you using on that mean lead voice? That sounds quite interesting! Is that "just" a reverb or something else?
Great bleep bloop :-) Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Hi Sacguy71,
I know it's not a Eurorack module but I love the pedal from Source Audio, it's called the Ventris Dual Reverb, it has a beautiful and good quality sound. It can provide you those nice spacey sounds you were asking for. Since you are into guitar "business" as well, you might want to consider a pedal like the Ventris Dual Reverb.
Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
So lately I've been trying to create patches with this thing solely inside the box. I understand that it's a small rack, and limited in capability in many areas. But I've seen so many videos of people who seem to be pulling much more interesting stuff out of similarly sized setups. I'm thinking of switching a few things up. But before I do that, I wanted to pick the brains of the much more experienced here and just kind of get some idea on how y'all would go about patching something up using only whats in the box here.
-- enlargedgarbage
Actually, I wouldn't...at least, not without some significant changes. The most likely reason why others are getting more out of their similarly-sized builds is because those contain the proper "utility" modules alongside these others. Without those, you're drastically limiting what the main modules are capable of.
The other issue here is that you've opted to put a bunch of very large modules into a small box. This never ends well. Invariably, the utility modules and other little boring-looking widgets get crowded out by the big "sexy" stuff, usually because...well, utilities are boring, they lack lots of lights and such, so they're generally the first to (incorrectly!) go. On the other hand, I'm NOT advocating that you should jam a bunch of 4 hp and down modules in here. But you've also noticed that this is a problem, apparently, since you're opting for chucking some of these. Hm.....
OK...what I opted to do here is to follow your ideas of what needed removing, then I went further and rethought how the degree of functionality could be upped to the level where you've got a REAL laptop troublemaker. And this is that, I think...
Many things got changed, partly to avoid leaving out various utilities, but also to shrink/alter a few things so that there's more going on. Plus, I added an external processing bit so that, if you're feeling like adding some external creepy noises and then screwing with them, you can. So let's start there...Doepfer A-119 + a Happy Nerding TriTone parametric EQ with CV control. You can send things into the synth with this, extract envelopes and gates from the audio signal, and then mess with this timbrally via the EQ. Grabbing a contact mic would be recommended, also.
After that, we get into the synthesis section...the first thing there is a Cavisynth Bufflide, a buffered mult (needed now) plus a slew limiter for portamento effects. Then the big bank of VCOs, courtesy of a Doepfer A-111-4 Quad VCO. Four VCOs is nice, especially if they're matched so that you can do some neat detunings. But I wasn't content with that, so next to it is an Antimatter Crossfold. This is a very interesting waveshaper/folder/combiner module that can take TWO oscillator outputs and more or less slam 'em into each other for radical timbre changes before you even get to the VCF. Right after this is a little 4-in mixer to sum the VCOs/Crossfold down to send to the VCF.
The VCF here is a very versatile, complex one...Xaoc's Belgrad. This thing loves external modulation, has lots of different modes, and can do vocal formants and some odd crossmod and internal feedback, in addition to being a dual-peak multimode VCF. But I wasn't content with JUST that, so for some percussive sounds I put in a Make Noise Optomix, which gives you a pair of lowpass gates. These can be fed by the noise generator for electronic percussion sounds, or you can process most any other audio source with these, plus they sum down to a single output if that works for a given situation.
I put in a Codex Modulex clone of Veils next so that you can actually have a degree of VCA control over audio levels going into the Doepfer A-138s. Then the audio path actually moves down to the Mimeophon (replacing the Morphagene, which loses a bit of functionality but which allows for more space) and the uBurst (replaces the fullsized Clouds clone) before it goes to the Happy Nerding Isolator for a stereo output level + transformer isolation. The nice thing about that, also, is that you can overdrive the transformers for some extra warmth. The idea here, though, is that these three modules are after the A-138s above them, and you can control the balance between effect and dry via the wet-dry controls on the modules themselves.
Bottom row: added a Doepfer A-118-2 so that you now have a noise source, plus a random voltage source and a sample and hold. I left the Maths (why not, right?), then added another little Doepfer module with four free-run LFOs. And right after it, there's a Tenderfoot attenuverter/mixer that allows you to break out each attenuverter, if needed. But the next thing is just nuts...
That next thing is an After Later BLEND, which is just nuts, really. It's a dual VCA, but it also contains a minimum/maximum discriminator and a comparator, all of which has plenty of abuse potential. Then, envelopes...I opted here for an Intelljel Quadrax with its Qx expander, which gives you four AR, or ASR, or looping envelopes with several shapes, plus the Qx allows these to be chained in different ways to add yet another complex modulation source.
Now, you'll notice that most of what WAS there now ISN'T. And a lot of that comes down to those modules being just too damned BIG. Especially in a 2 x 84 cab. With a situation like that, it's necessary to squeeze things majorly in order to get everything needed in there, to say nothing of trying to add functionality. I also got rid of some things that were rather unnecessary, such as the Strymon AA. But the major thing that was removed, and which I had some misgivings about removing, was the Hermod. I really did NOT want that out of there, but it's such a huge honker that if I was going to set up any sort of workable modulation chain, it needed removal. My suggestion with it would be to either put it into a powered 4ms Pod of an appropriate size, or consider going to a different outboard multichannel sequencer, or perhaps even a sequencer/controller combo such as an Arturia Keystep Pro.
Now, if this were in a 2 x 104 cab, things would be rather different in what could stay and what would have to go. That might allow the Hermod back in, allow the Morphagene instead of the Mimeophon, etc. But I'd still strongly recommend eliminating the Clouds clone in favor of the uBurst and adding the u4xVCA instead of a Veils because the space saved here would still be useful for other things. And as for the Quad VCO, the Doepfer VCOs might be a little basic-sounding, but with the Crossfold plus the Belgrad, they won't sound basic at all. And you get an external in with some CVable timbral control so that you can mic up acoustic sources. Like I mentioned earlier, these things are excellent with contact mics, and you'll be surprised at just what creepy and weird sounds are lurking right at hand, all ready to be fed into this thing. Lots of possibilities here now...
Thanks troux, I have Mimeophon in one case which is great and have the Noise Engineering DESMODUS VERSIO on the way for my MDLR 14u case. Looking at 4ms Dual Looping Delay and few others. Hopefully Clouds v2 arrives next year as well. I will probably get Pico DSP or FX Aid for my smaller cases.
I'm sure others will chime in with great advice, but IMHO the problem here is that you just don't have enough modulation or basic utilities (a common problem round these parts), and without those patchability goes down quite a bit... and you might as well use a desktop synth. I have a set of modules I tend to recommend for that, Links, Kinks, Batumi, O/a/x2, Zadar, add a few of those and then you could probably use a distortion module or a wavefolder, maybe some of the Noise Engineering modules. If you move in that direction I think you'll find some possibilities open up and that you'll keep learning.
-- troux
Right on, thanks for the advice. I had thought about that at first but I figured between maths, hermod and the env outs on smr I would have had enough modulation sources for a build of this size. Maybe not....and yes now that I know a bit more I definitely want to get a wavefolder in here for sure. Any patch suggestions as is though?
Have you tried using the Rings string/organ Easter egg? I use that quite a bit. Rings and Clouds were two of my first modules and truth be told, I don't really care for them that much. They're ok, but they're not very inspirational for me (especially Clouds).
One module you may want to consider is the Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium. I wasn't immediately smitten with it but I love it now. It checks the ambient AND dark boxes for you. It's a big module though. I've been concentrating more on analog VCOs, filters, and LPGs lately, so I may not be the right person to really answer this question for you.
Looking at your rack, it looks like you would probably benefit from considerably more modulation sources (Zadar, Batumi, Quadrax, random, etc.). The 4ms SWN might fit the bill for you since it has built-in LFOs and the wavetables can do pretty or dark.
Have fun and good luck!
-- farkas
Thank you also for the advice..I had not looked in to the E352 before, definitely like what I hear there. I'm into the idea of going in a more analog direction as well, so open to any suggestions you may have in that regard. I suppose I could swap the smr out for the swn. However I was thinking of trying to fit more smaller modules in here as opposed to swapping out for other big ones. Also yes I do use the easter egg modes on rings and I do like them, I have thought about sticking a 2hp pluck and bell in here to try and make a polyphonic karplus voice using those and rings. I'll ask you the same question, what about a patch suggestion for the rack as it stands? No pressure! Just curious...
Mimeophon and Magneto are fantastic in my experience, Clouds, so so, FX Aid gets good reviews from me but not quite as powerful as the rest.
my tunes: https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/
I think we might be 🤣🤣🤣
my tunes: https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/
It's the modulargrid Mind Meld @farkas lol
my tunes: https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/
Ha! Just saw @troux was posting as I was writing. Looks like we both have similar thoughts about lack of modulation.
Nice one @lugia, I copied that for future reference.
my tunes: https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/
Have you tried using the Rings string/organ Easter egg? I use that quite a bit. Rings and Clouds were two of my first modules and truth be told, I don't really care for them that much. They're ok, but they're not very inspirational for me (especially Clouds).
One module you may want to consider is the Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium. I wasn't immediately smitten with it but I love it now. It checks the ambient AND dark boxes for you. It's a big module though. I've been concentrating more on analog VCOs, filters, and LPGs lately, so I may not be the right person to really answer this question for you.
Looking at your rack, it looks like you would probably benefit from considerably more modulation sources (Zadar, Batumi, Quadrax, random, etc.). The 4ms SWN might fit the bill for you since it has built-in LFOs and the wavetables can do pretty or dark.
Have fun and good luck!
