I'm afraid that my own solutions won't be of much use to you, but I will describe them briefly. For technical papers, the standard in my field is the open-source program TeX/LaTeX. It is not "what you see is what you get" (WYSIWYG) like Word; rather, a LaTeX document is plain text where formatting code is interspersed with content, and the document is then rendered to PDF. There are apps which facilitate this or even render incrementally so you can regain some of the WYSIWYG benefits. It is the standard because it can be used relatively quickly at a high level, if one is banging out a letter, but offers complete control down to a very low level if you want (computer scientists love this) and because its handling of mathematics is unbeatable.

But I also use straight LaTeX only under duress, and prefer these days to work at a higher level, using Scribble, the documentation language for an open-source programming language called Racket (a dialect of Scheme, or LISP). Scribble is built on top of Racket and so has elegant ways to handle much automation. It renders not only to PDF (through LaTeX) but to HTML for webpages. So I use it to build course Web pages, and all associated documents, including course notes and proto-textbooks. If you are curious, and do a Web search on my handle, you will find my university home page with links to my materials.

In light of that great advice (go slow and buy another case)...what are thoughts on the add of CVilization? too much modulation stuff, should i ditch it in favor of another VCO or something else?

Hi Plragde,

Okay fair enough. Regarding the split of the documents, yes I certainly get your point. Actually here local on my computer I have split the things but that's rather to make my life easier when creating the review report or rather the preparation of it. Please do also refer to my above/earlier comments about splitting the document in several parts, it certainly has pros however, pity enough, also cons. That's my concern. Anyway, I will continue to chew on that idea :-)

So which program are you using for the more complicated documents? Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

As I said above, I use Word only under duress, and certainly not for documents of the length and complexity you are creating. I can well believe that there are limits on how appendices can be structured, under the design criterion that they tend to be simpler and more focussed in nature than the main body of the document. This, to me, is further incentive to split the technical appendices out into a separate document.

Hi Ronin1973,

Could you please let me know in details what you meant with your previous post? I will then check if and how I can adapt that in future review reports.

Thank you very much in advance and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Plragde,

I had a look into the appendix/chapter numbering, yes it is possible within Word to do "Appendix numbering" instead of chapter numbering, I manage to get that work. That would be heading 1 (in style format section). Then Heading 2, i.e. for paragraph numbers, I managed to get that to work to, so I was quite happy at that level. Say Appendix A then paragraph would be A.1 however then the further levels, I got stuck at heading 3 level, there seems to be no way within Word (at least I couldn't figure it out, even not with googling it on the Internet) to make that work, Word forces you then to use the format 1.1.1 instead of A.1.1 :-( I need to keep the formatting accurate since chapter 7 (Appendix A) is in a way a copy of the paragraph numbers of the rest of the document, only a 7 has been put in front. So let's say in the report you want to check something about paragraph 3.8 - PCB details, then in chapter 7 that would be 7.3.8 - PCB details where you can find the entire explanation of paragraph 3.8.

But somehow if I switch over to Appendix only numbering, it doesn't work beyond heading level 2 :-(
And it doesn't help to switch on Legal style numbering as suggested by someone on the Internet.

So if you know how to get that work, please do let me know otherwise I am sorry to let you know that chapter 7 will stay as chapter 7 - Appendix A. It reminds me why I hate Word ;-)

Thank you very much for your feedback and kind regards, Garfield.

This is super helpful input guys, thanks!!

@farkas that's a great suggestion for synching driven by PWN. As I already have a PWN your suggestion will be my go-to fixit should the need arise. I also have a Malekko Quad Gate Delay I could use if needed, but I'd rather keep that free for creative purposes; plus trying to get the sequencers to synch through manual adjustment sounds to me like a fiddly and potentially frustrating or failing effort.

If anyone else has suggestions to make via synching multiple sequencers (see above), feel free to chip in.

Thanks to the ideas above and the related "favorite seqeuncer" thread, I'm narrowing in on what could be a great multi-sequencer setup for me, which is ultimately in the interest of creating a "modular-based scoring system" which can spit out the backbone parts of a songwriting effort. I've not yet solved how to connect that to my specific DAW+PC down the line: I posted that query as a separate thread: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/10312

I feel somewhat embarrassed by posting what seem to me like several "dumb$ss newbie" questions in a row. Sigh... Modular is definitely deep, and I can use a hand here and there. Thanks again to everyone offering friendly pointers, advice and perspectives!

NG

Hello,

I started in modular ~Feb 2021. I'm now in the middle of planning a significant expansion to my already nice setup. Thanks to the many MG forum people who've shared such helpful advice along the way!!

Question: what are preferred modular to DAW solutions for sending CV and/or midi into a DAW? In my case, this is a Windows PC normally running Live 11 but with a few alternative DAW choices on hand (including Bitwig).

My ideal future use case would be as follows:
-- use my modular setup for a majority (70%+) of composition tasks on a song via some combination of complex sequencing plus jamming
-- send MIDI+CV into the DAW for recording to capture the foundational "score" parts of the song I'm writing
-- send select audio from modular into the DAW for recording to capture (a few but not all) key audio parts and performances
-- use what I've recorded into the DAW as the foundation of a song; use the DAW the rest of the way to finalize the composition / arrangement / production to the point of being mix-ready
-- throughout the process, being able to use my normal audio interface + monitor setup for monitoring
-- net net, this type of use case would get me away from the DAW-based compositional process which is very mouse and keyboard focused. I would love to be able to handle a lot of the scoring in the modular domain!

At this point, I DO know Expert Sleepers modules (such as ES-9 or ES-8) are regularly used for such tasks. What I DON'T know is what setups are preferred for Windows+DAW(Live) because to my knowledge I can use only one audio interface at a time in my DAW. What I'm concerned about is if I'm running an Expert Sleepers module, will I lose my ability to monitor audio across the entire DAW session (because ES would replace my normal interface in the "1 at a time" interface environment of Live on my PC)?

If you know of good modular-to-DAW solutions that will work on a PC please let me know! And again thanks for the many contributors who've offered me advice recently and over past months.

Much appreciated!

Nicholas

EDITED Aug 6th 2021, 01:21

Hi Shanewave,

Nice to see you are building up the system and start to create a great track :-)

Wow, that sound that starts to kick in at about 2:38 is beautifully done! You got some lovely sound creation here and it's interesting to see you "at work" :-) Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Gabor,

Oh that's a nice slowly progressing piece of music, nicccceeeee :-)

Ha, ha, and some quite nice and fun sounds you are providing us here too, lovely! Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

@farkas, That is a fantastic video, exactly what I'm looking for. I'll give it a watch through (probably a couple times actually). Thanks for the input!

Hi @CardiacTasty. I've sort of built my rack around the idea of performing improvisational minimal techno mainly using an Arpitecht and Eloquencer switching with an Acid Rain Switchblade (though I have other sequencers and utilities, and record other types of music too). I chose the Eloquencer over the Metron for the exact reason that you are describing here. I've also added a Behringer RD8 808 clone to trigger additional modular drum voices via the three trigger outs, so an external X0X style drum machine is always valuable, but you already have that functionality with the Metron. I've found the Arpitecht to be fun but not precise in getting exactly what I want, so you could probably use two but I think you'll find it similarly clunky to what you are doing now. I would recommend doing a lot of research on sequencers to pick one that does exactly what you need it to do, and use the Arpitecht as a supplement.
As always, yes... get a bigger case. Haha.
Have fun and good luck.

Here's a good video for your consideration:

EDITED Aug 5th 2021, 19:14

Lead And Bassline == Two Arpitechts??

I know I'm crazy. This is crazy. If you can, please help me with my crazy.

The premise

I'm trying to build a setup for live improvisational dancy techno. I'm looking for a lead, a bassline, and drums. That's (technically) music, that's what people seem to expect, that's what (I think) will get people dancing.

My thinking is I'll have 2 lead voices and 2 bass line voices to be able to swap out a voice when I move to a new musical space. Throw in drums, delicious and weird voicing from the Loquelic, some basic effects, plenty of filtering to twiddle with, a few samples. Jam everything into a small enough case to be portable but large enough to accommodate not needing another piece of equipment (like a separate drum machine) and I'm off to the races.

The problem

In theory, I thought Metron's Voltera extension would allow me to throw together melodies and bass lines easily enough on the fly. In practice, it's proving somewhat clunky; I'd very much appreciate an easier way to generate said melodies and bass lines.

Enter the theoretically insane: double (2x!!) Arpitechts. One for the lead voices and one for the bass voices. It just feels bad, but what am I to do?

The question

How else could I improvisationally (on stage) generate two sequences of notes that, you know, get people dancing? I look at this current setup and just see problems. Do I need a bigger case? Should I accept defeat and move to an external drum machine? What think?

Thank you for watching!

Listened to track nr 1 and loved
every second of it.
Amazing work.

I’ve had good luck with clocking from Pamela’s New Workout. I have a Moffenzeef Mito trigger sequencer that is a little squirrelly with syncing so I just send a reset gate to it every four bars from either the Eloquencer or PNW. I’ve found workarounds for any issues I’ve come across.
*edit: Just a note regarding Ronin's important consideration of rising/falling clock pulses, Pamela's New Workout allows you to skew and offset gate/trigger signals per channel if you do find a synchronization issue between multiple sequencers. I have not found it necessary to do this, but the capability is there. PNW also serves as my master "start/stop" button. Cool module. It's definitely the one that glued my rack together for the first time early on while I was just getting started.

EDITED Aug 5th 2021, 11:44

So I’m wanting to sell one of my upeaks, but it’s a Pusherman / Jak Plugg board and panel. Now unless a brand such as Befaco sells diy versions of their modules you cannot find these on the marketplace. So what I see is that loads of sellers sell their diy modules under a certain brand (i.e. Mutable Instruments) which suggests the original, but isn’t, and I feel that can be annoying. Seeing there currently is no other way; should I in my case just go ahead and sell it under Michigan Synth Works as it’s CV input expandable?

Perhaps in future there would be an easy way for seller and buyer to add/identify whether it’s diy or not? Or perhaps add a diy version of certain modules under which all diy versions can be placed?

Be handy if the marketplace could remember my choice of region and whether to include results from Reverb

I always tend to drill down to UK and no-Reverb so would save me setting this each time

It was a couple of days ago that I finished reading the Infinite Jest. I spent 4 long months with the book so it’s had a lasting impact on me. This piece is my selfish hommage to the late author, David Foster Wallace. Some ambientish-drony-tribal downtempo or something. Basic patch info in the video description.

EDITED Aug 5th 2021, 07:52

Synching multiple sequencers: for you folks running 2+ sequencers, are you using any special modules or techniques to get perfect synchronization? Ronin (above) and some others have warned me about sync problems. Before I add more sequencing its worth considering if and how I can get the units all lining up rhythmically. Thanks for all the ideas!

If you like getting deep I enjoy the NerdSeq, I also plan on adding a er-101 just because it looks interesting.

If you dig the classic face value eloquencer and Metron are cool.

If I remember correctly, Butch Vig and Billy Corgan half-jokingly said the Mutron Biphase was their secret weapon when recording Siamese Dream.
-- farkas

Yep, I think I remember seeing the same interview some time ago. And the Biphase is definitely something Butch Vig would glom onto. In fact, I don't even see a regular version of it on Reverb, just a reissue for $670-ish. But they DO have a hyper-rare Mu-tron 3X modulation filter/effect pedal there for only...ok, get the oxygen ready...

...

...

...$20,000.

Thank you very much for the background information Lugia! Always nice to read such information and very informative :-)

i got a cvlization for a month now and i use it quite a lot and i am actually thinking of getting a second.
the color-coding might seem a bit complicated in the beginning but with some practice you get a hold of that quickly.
my favourite mode currently is the quad mucoder, which really shines imo when using more channels and copy notes form above channels and using different clock divisions. this mode is also very handy when playing live since you can generate nuanced variations with just one encoder turn.
anyways... i like the module and would definitely recommend to check it out.

EDITED Aug 4th 2021, 18:21

It depends on how your head is wired. It has a ton of features. But it means learning what each encoder and encoder color does... all dependent on the mode the unit is currently set for. You'll run into this with a lot of Mutable Instruments modules.

To get the most out of MI and this thing, you really have to commit the functionality to memory and spend a LOT of time becoming fluid with it. Staring at a manual in one hand while making tentative adjustments on the module with the other sucks all the fun out of working with modular. $0.02.

I looked over the build.

Things I didn't see:
Sequencers
Noise Generator
Sample & Hold

If you have to, I'd pull the Ladik slew limiter and the Zlob VCA to open up space. Those two units seem redundant for the size of the build. How will this rack be controlled? That's why I mentioned sequencers. Do you have an external device to do this?
-- Ronin1973

Thanks for the reply. I have a bit of a "hybrid" setup. I plan to use Ableton Live (and its built in CV tools) with my Push 2 via my MOTU828 (which is DC coupled) for sequencing (hopefully)...I also will be using this setup with my Hydrasynth desktop and Arturia Minibrute 2.

I actually was just doing some YouTube research on "sample and hold" as I hear that term all the time and wasn't sure what it referred to so I'm glad you mentioned that because I like what I saw from examples of S&H videos I watched.

I purchased the slew limiter already but have not yet purchased the Zlob...I think I heard that you can never have enough VCAs :)

-- jb61264

You can never have enough VCAs. But you only have so much SPACE! :)

Sample and hold, at its basics is pretty easy. All Eurorack is based on voltages. You plug a voltage source into a S&H circuit and then a source of triggers into the trigger input. When the module receives a trigger, it evaluates the current source voltage and outputs that exact voltage until it receives another trigger. So it SAMPLES a value and then HOLDS it.

Of course there are more features, caveats, and variations depending on the module. But at the basic level, this is what is going on under the hood.

Buy your set-up in stages. Don't buy everything at once. You WILL change your mind on some things as your experience grows. ALSO... you may redirect some of your budget to buying a second case... because... you can never have enough VCAS :)

Find a Eurorack dealer with a nice return policy. It's going to take a week to figure out if you like the workflow (assuming you're going with a complex sequencer).

I own a Westlicht. I like it. But be sure it's built by someone who gives a damn.
I also own a 1010 Toolbox. I like it too. It's easy to program. But it lacks a lot of deep features and some of the updates have been kind of crappy IMHO.

As far as simple sequencers, I own a Pittsburgh Modular Microsequencer. I hate that little bastard with a passion.
But the Befaco Muxlicer is pretty intuitive and useful in comparison.
My micro Ornaments & Crime has a sequencer mode built into it that is very nice for its size (it can also do envelopes instead of gates.
I also have a Noise Engineering Digitalis Mementic... which is a great little sequencer for improvisation.

I'd buy one complex sequencer to start and one or two simple modules that can be triggered or sync'ed by the main sequencer.

I looked over the build.

Things I didn't see:
Sequencers
Noise Generator
Sample & Hold

If you have to, I'd pull the Ladik slew limiter and the Zlob VCA to open up space. Those two units seem redundant for the size of the build. How will this rack be controlled? That's why I mentioned sequencers. Do you have an external device to do this?
-- Ronin1973

Thanks for the reply. I have a bit of a "hybrid" setup. I plan to use Ableton Live (and its built in CV tools) with my Push 2 via my MOTU828 (which is DC coupled) for sequencing (hopefully)...I also will be using this setup with my Hydrasynth desktop and Arturia Minibrute 2.

I actually was just doing some YouTube research on "sample and hold" as I hear that term all the time and wasn't sure what it referred to so I'm glad you mentioned that because I like what I saw from examples of S&H videos I watched.

I purchased the slew limiter already but have not yet purchased the Zlob...I think I heard that you can never have enough VCAs :)

I looked over the build.

Things I didn't see:
Sequencers
Noise Generator
Sample & Hold

If you have to, I'd pull the Ladik slew limiter and the Zlob VCA to open up space. Those two units seem redundant for the size of the build. How will this rack be controlled? That's why I mentioned sequencers. Do you have an external device to do this?

I'm not sure why its not showing the latest image of my build...if you click the image it takes you to the page with the build though?

My rack build is coming along...a little over half of my space currently filled in.

One of the modules I've been really looking into is u-he CVilization and I'm interested in feedback on the change that I've made to my build:

I essentially removed two modules: 1. NLC Timbre & Timbre and 2. Doepfer A-118-2 and added the u-he CVilization and have 2HP leftover.

Thoughts?

EDITED Aug 5th 2021, 23:28

When I was choosing my main sequencer, I narrowed my choice down to the WMD Metron and the Winter Modular Eloquencer. I ultimately chose the Eloquencer. Very intuitive, as simple or as deep as you might want, and 8 channels of CV and gate. I'm not a menu-diver, and while the Eloquencer has a fairly shallow menu system, it doesn't impede making music in the slightest. In fact, the interface is mostly WYSIWYG the way I use it. Watching demos of the Metron, I felt like I might make a lot of mistakes switching between four different pages for a single rhythm. Add to that the need to buy an expander for just four channels of CV (and another expander for accent), and the Metron just wasn't for me. I'm very happy with my choice.
I think I mentioned in your other recent post about sequencers that I do like to use and switch between multiple sequencers (Voltage Block, Arpitecht, etc.). That may be confusing and not work for some, so it all really comes down to your preference.

Take a look at Westlicht Performer.

It's a DIY module at the moment, which makes it easier or harder to get it, depending where you are coming from. If you are not a DIY person and don't believe in used gear, you might find someone to build one for you for less than what other, less powerful sequencrs might cost.

It has 8 outputs of gate/trigger + CV combinations, and can also create modulation curves. It has MIDI in and out through TRS and USB.

I like that it has quite deep possibilities of programming and at the same time favors hands-on approaches: you can connect a Novation Launchpad to it and use that to create sequences on the fly and access other functions.

Cinematic Laboratory has some videos about it:

If I remember correctly, Butch Vig and Billy Corgan half-jokingly said the Mutron Biphase was their secret weapon when recording Siamese Dream.

I've only actually connected a keyboard to a Quantiser once, it certainly made it easier to play all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order :)

Metron has been extremely easy to learn compared to some others. You'll need the Voltera expander for CV control though which can be annoying.

I have a ton of U-he software and love it. I thought about adding CVilization to my modular setup but on inspection it is too darn complicated for me! I have a significant modular setup and super function-dense modules with intense manuals are too much for me presently. Too bad though, I was looking forward to U-he in modular form!

I love SISM, I don’t have an issue that it’s basically manual, I use it to constrain ranges. BTW Instruo Tanh3 is kind of the opposite for me, pushing more of the signal towards the min&max values; Klavis Flexshaper is something I might try for similar purposes.

If you’re set on CV control for attenuation and mixing, 4ms VCA Matrix may fit your needs.

For new stuff I might suggest Tiptop Z8000 as an interesting CV / sequence source. I’m likely getting one of those soon. Other items that may be interesting adds for you would include the Joranalog Morph 4 (see esp. the Divkid Video on that one!) and NonLinear Circuits stuff (particularly Chaos and/or logic modules).

Thanks for the update, looking forward to hearing what's next for you!

EDITED Aug 4th 2021, 21:45

Or something else I ran across might be useful there as well. Over on KVR, there's a Scala format "tuning bank" plugin: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/scala-creator-by-homegrown-sounds $22, and I'm thinking that it's certainly worth that. Using that, you should be able to blow Scala tuning tables into most anything that can accept them.

Checking the 4ms site reveals some operation basics: https://4mscompany.com/p.php?p=679&c=5 The CV control here actually involves using an LFO with one or more channels to modulate the halfwaving process going on with the "slice" functions. Not like a VCA and how it deals with CVs, but there's some basic similarities there.

Not even close. The Mellotron is the tape-based "protosampler" that defined a lot of music from the mid-1960s up thru the end of the 1970s or thereabouts. For example, the opening of "Strawberry Fields Forever"...those are the flute tracks from a Mk III. Great instrument, maddening maintenance requirements.

Now, Mutron was a spin off from ARP and they put out effects pedals that are VERY sought-out to this day. The Biphase was this amazing phase shifter that employed both swept and fixed/tunable filters and some really interesting modulation methods, and the original developer collaborated with Electro-Harmonix when they designed the Flanger Hoax. Flanger Hoaxes are a bit spendy, but NOTHING compared to the price of vintage Mutron gear!

Hello,

I'm about 7 months into modular (but a longtime musician & synthesist). I've got a good modular setup and am now considering EXPANDING it, particularly with one or more additional Sequencing modules. I already have Vector + Expansion, and it is very good IMO. Still, I am looking to build out to a more "complex sequencing chain" as discussed in these 2 posts:
i) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/10262
ii) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9467

My next sequencer(s) could include CV and/or trigger/gate sequencing -- I'm pretty open in consideration presently. I am digging into sequencer videos and manuals online BUT am coming away with a not so great idea of what makes one module superior for particular users. So, for those willing to share, I am wondering: what are your favorite sequencer modules? What in particular do you like about them? Why did you choose those over credible alternatives? What are some of the most important things did you not like about those others you passed up?

Some particular units I'm hoping to understand better include Eloquencer, Tiptop Trigger Riot, Tiptop Circadian Rhythms, Frap USTA, WMD Metron, Verbos Multistage CV + Sequence Selector, Rene2, Euclidean Circles v2. But feel free to mention any sequencers you really love / hate. I WILL likely add further "supporting units" such as switches, logic, adders, busses, etc. that are helpful (if not also necessary) for "complex sequencing;" that said, this point, I'm more focused on ID'ing what may be the top candidates for additional sequencer modules to add.

I have tried to glean related info from other spots on the forum, but surely I've missed some, so please feel free to post other thread links as relevant. BTW I've used the Doudoroff list as the general sequencer list (https://doudoroff.com/sequencers/)

To summarize and simplify, I'm wondering if we have a "modular sequencer shootout" of items in the 2021 marketplace, which modules rise to the top and why?

Thanks all!

Nicholas

EDITED Aug 4th 2021, 00:29

Hi Lugia,

The Mu-tron and the mellotron are that about the same thing or two totally different things?

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Is there any way to rotate a module 90 degrees so that it fits into the 3U to 1U adapters?

Couple of things...first up, you really don't want a mono output, especially with that Beads in there. The output module also has connections for the Intellijel (I'm presuming that's what's specced here) case's 1/4" jacks, so those are a tad unnecessary, meaning you shouldn't have a problem adding in the normal stereo out. For that matter, I'd consider tossing the mult and scope tiles as well; scopes are nice IF you have room for them, but a 7U x 84 case like this doesn't have that room. And as for the mult, you can jam more functionality in by chucking it and going with inline mult widgets, since there's no need here for a buffered mult, apparently.

Better choices? Well, here's a layout for the tiles that makes loads more sense:

Now, here you've got another FX processor, which will be useful for "stereoizing" mono signals. And that dual stereo mixer gives you hot outputs for more modular processing while, at the same time, it also provides your stereo output at line level via a pair of the cab's 1/4" jacks, AND you can mix your FX tile's stereo out and the Beads' stereo out right there for your final mix balancing. Definitely more useful!
-- Lugia

thanks !!!

Y'know, what we REALLY need here is a multichannel quantizer that can accept/understand Scala tuning tables. Maybe blow 'em in via a USB connection...? I don't think such a critter exists at present so if any module developers are reading this...well, you get the idea.
-- Lugia

This would be pretty simple in a Monome Crow...

I only use it as a matrix mixer (mainly because my head exploded when I read about the other modes). It works really well for that and is easy to use.
I‘m looking forward to diving deeper into CVilization at some point, though.

The 3rd video from the "Aquadrum" album will be on my youtube channel on Tuesday, August 10

The 2nd video from the "Aquadrum" album will be on my youtube channel on Friday, August 6th.

Was just wondering if anyone has encountered this:
It seems to me that the HPO is considerably more noisy when driving low impedance Headphones (Apple Earbuds) and Line Inputs when compared to Hi-Z Instrument Inputs on my Interface or my Beyerdynamic DT-150's.

Thankful for feedback.