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Man...that's some spectacular mod-work there! I can see how this would require some real component-mashing to make it work, but you nailed it.

I dig the Happy Nerding VCAs, actually...they're linear, making them ideal for modulation control. Plus, they can be used as a "breakable" mixer, and the ability to get three VCAs, etc into just 6 hp makes them a go-to. The topology sort of makes them less than optimal for audio, but if you're down toward the "DC Zone", these fill the bill...and then some!

+1 on Jim's assessment of Doepfer. Sure, most of their modules are "primitives", which means that the circuits in them make up the circuit complement for more complex modules. But there's tons of potential situations when a "primitive" is just what the Dr. ordered. Dieter's making some great stuff to this very day...and there are some definitely unique offerings in their huge line. You can't write 'em off!

Gave it a bit of a poke, mostly to fix the layout but I also was able to remove a few modules that either weren't cost-effective or necessary:

Most everything is still the same as far as module complement, but I was able to mash the polarizers (and add more functionality) by swapping that for a Xaoc Samara II, which also contains VCAs for your mod row. Losing the buffered mult + a bit of shuffling then let me put in the Takaab VLH, which adds a ring modulator, suboscillator, and noise source to your VCO complement. And one more crunch let me put in a pair of ADSRs courtesy of Paratek's updated version of Peaks. But besides those changes and the module shuffle (which now has audio up, modulation down except for the Stereomix, with signal flow on both now working left-to-right), it's pretty much ready to rock.

Oh, and two more VCAs got added in the audio row, right after the Rings clone, so that you can use those to control stereo amplitude coming out of the Rings and before it hits the Monsoon, with the Plancks serving to submix prior to the Stereomix, if needed.

EDITED Aug 22nd 2021, 01:48

Such a beautiful build!!! Kudos! You should post this to ModWiggler if you haven't yet? :-)
-- JohnLRice

Thanks, John! It's the most complex combo/repanel I've done to date. Really took some finagling to get it all to fit. Maybe I'll post on the forum once I make a video.

EDITED Aug 22nd 2021, 03:01

Such a beautiful build!!! Kudos! You should post this to ModWiggler if you haven't yet? :-)

Nice stuff, to be sure...I also note that there's a backplane link to the Stereomix2 on these, so they also function as expanders for those.

No real advantage, per se...the main part of that issue really stems from which synthesis approach you want to work in. Digital sources like the Plaits do "pre-make" the sound in a sense, but you can warp their preprogrammed waveforms all the same.

The real thing I was aiming at in the build above isn't so much a choice between oscillator topologies, but about the point of oscillator doubling. You can have one VCO (of any sort, really) and it'll sound good...but TWO of the same, with the same waveform and a slightly different tuning yields more than the sum of the parts. By using slight detunings, the result is that the sound has more presence...low end stuff hits harder, mids sound bigger, and so on. With the VOID Modular dual VCO, you've got those two VCOs...but the module offers more than just two oscillators inasmuch as you've got the ring mod (probably a 4-quadrant design in there) for amplitude modulation, you can drive one with the other at audio frequencies for FM, etc. However, you can accomplish the same sort of idea with two Plaits and the addition of a ring mod module.

But the big difference is actually in price. The Gravitational Waves is $250; a single Plaits runs $259. So while you could do a dual Plaits setup, just the two oscillators alone are more than DOUBLE the VOID's price. And yes, you definitely need to keep cost-vs-benefit in mind here...

I’m sold! Will add some vca! Hope I didn’t offend anyone calling maths a utility:) thanks again for your responses and sharing your knowledge. Something I love about the modular community.
Will update in a bit!

Hi Mowse,

Oh yes, very nice! :-) The first half minute or so, I immediately had to think of the good old Tangerine Dream when I heard this music, after that you turned it into pure your lovely music; with both I can live and enjoy it :-)

Nice to hear from you again and I don't mind to hear more of it, thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi JB61264, Eexee and JimHowell1970,

I am glad it works now :-) Nothing more disappointing as a module that might not work, thus so glad that you managed to get it work the way you want & need it!

Yes, I agree here with Jim, Doepfer modules are good and because most of the modules are so "pure" it's indeed, Eexee, good for starters and for a good learning curve however also for when you are beyond the starting experience. Their utility modules are pleasure pure to use and usually easy to understand.

I also agree though on the sometimes poor documentation. The older modules of Doepfer were actually good documented in both German and English, though indeed the English translation might not always be perfect in most cases it's good enough to get you going. Though I can read and understand both languages, I always start to read the English version first since I believe all (electronically and computer related) documentation should be world wide in English only (and no, my mother tongue is definitely not English related), but that's just my humble opinion as a technical guy. Only if I don't understand the English explanation, I check the German explanation to see if something got lost in translation, which is sometimes the case but not always. I found even for one or two modules (can't remember which one that were) where the English manual provided more interesting information than the German one. Recently for many newer Doepfer modules, I come to realise that the documentation gets of poorer quality or it's just not existing as JB discovered already for the A-140-2. That's a real pity indeed.

JB, for the A-140-2, you can indeed rely on the A-140-1 documentation, the principles are the same and after having read that, you will realise that the A-140-2 works pretty much in the same way however I agree, each module should have their own complete module manual.

Have fun with modular and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Anubiz,

He, he, indeed a very nice sweetener for this lovely weekend, thanks to you :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

I remember the original, good stuff, this reminds me of a MakeNoise demo.

It has been a while but I found time today to jam on the modular synthesizer. I thought I'd revisit one of my earlier tracks, Cygnus.

Hope you enjoy it.

-mowse

20210821 FIRST ENTRY

After years of trial and error within modular; spending thousands of $'s on multiple builds, synths, VSTs, selling off all my gear and slowly buying back what I missed/need for my creative process, I think I finally have an idea of what I want from a modular system and to answer the requirements of my creative needs that have fallen short within the box and from other gear.

I'll be treating this thread like an open diary, recording my thoughts, processes, and progress on this build over the foreseeable future.

As an open diary, I welcome any feedback, observations or questions around the build.

To me, modular is a playground, where games and rules are defined and broken as needed.

Thanks
- Joseph Knight aka hyperbola.xyz

Hi All, I’m looking to go at this from the other direction, a guitar player wanting to add synth to my setup. I know absolutely nothing about synth so I have come to this site to learn. This is basically my first post and the OP’s question is relevant to my goals. I would like to build a small rack that I can get sequenced rhythms out of that will play nice with effects pedals.
As a new member I guess I am not allowed to post questions in a new thread, so for the time being I will follow this one and try to get some synth 101 from searching the site.

Mitch

EDITED Aug 23rd 2021, 15:03

I also like to use strobe tuners. I have an older (now discontinued) model from Sonic Research (the ST 122), purchased many years ago. Now they only make it as a stomp box (ST-300). I ended up with both and they are both really fantastic.

Additionally, I have two apps for my phone:
iStroboSoft by Peterson - a really great strobe tuner app, has all sorts of features
insTuner from EUMlab - another good one

All the best

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 17:27

Sorry if I am doing a hyjack here, but I am a newbie and would like to know where to go to post a hello and ask a few questions
Thanks
Mitch

EDITED Aug 23rd 2021, 15:03

hi, is it best this for 6 outs to send to other modules, or the bigger bitbox?

Love the concept of this mixer. Faders and lot of channels are a success. Hope come in production soon.

I came across this tuner on etsy: Ecolab OT1 Tuner and Oscilloscope - 4hp - $124 - from Germany ecolab etsy link

The little banana lights up when tuned. Seems simple and affordable enough.

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 15:17

well I wouldn't class Maths as utilities - although it is in a way a collection of utilities - it's often better seen as more of a complex modulation source / swiss army knife module and fantastic learning tool for modular patching and thinking in general - see the "maths illustratated supplement" for ideas

the mixer and mults and vcas(?) though definitely are indispensable utilities - as I am sure you will find the attenuversion and offsets in Maths so useful that you will want them as separate modules (shades, 3*mia etc) very soon - so that you can use Maths for more interesting things

I'd seriously consider adding a quad cascading vca such as veils or the equivalent from intellijel or happy nerding these are near fundamental to synthesis - for processing both audio and modulation signals

Lovely stuff indeed :)

Sorry my post was a bit all over the place.

Utilities: gonna start with maths…learn how I like to patch and buy more utilities.

I figure with PMW and maths will get me pretty far for now.

Also I’m slowly filling in my 1u rack. These are no brainers …mixer and mults. ( should have mentioned that)

The complex oscillator rabbit hole I went down led me to vampire and grone drone. The price point was a big factor. Looking for something to fill in the atmosphere.

Since I only own a few modules I’m still figuring out sound wise what I like. Only have YouTube for that. Filters are not high up on my list yet but if I can get a great oscillator with a filter for a good price I’m figuring why not.

Quantizer would be redundant if I grab one of the other modules.

Thanks!

haha, it is hard to stop listening to! :)

This is proper good, more please :)

Sort of the same as last weeks stream patch but the 2hp Pluck is going into the Mimeophon and Monsoon Clouds.

Cheers for listening, and looking at my Elbow quite a lot, Tats on upper arm are due a redesign to work better with the lower arm.

that's always how I'd thought of it - this thing!

just remember that disting can only do one (or 2, depending on model) thing at a time - you'll probably find you use it primarily for a one or 2 things after a while - replace them with dedicated modules and continue exploring the disting - I'm currently using mine as an extra vca - AR envelope for noiseout of deckards voice into rings - which is in turn fed though magneto with a wasp filter in the send return loop - sounds epic!

I always used to use mine as a tape echo - then I caved and got an fx aid xl and then magneto - heheh always more modules!

what a mess
hehehe
maybe instead of the dopefer mixer/vca - something like veils which is both at once would be more appropriate, alm, intelijel and happy nerding make decent alternatives

-- JimHowell1970

Hehe, yeah it's a work-in-progress for sure. It's a little tidier now if clicked through, but looks like there's some caching for these images that are pulled from rack links.

Thanks for the advice. I'll maybe keep the a-135-2 for VCA duties, and look into a 7hp mixer that will fit instead of the Doepfer adder, since I discovered Disting can also do precision adding, as well as so many other things. I'm playing around with the SD card sample playback algos right now. A bit quirky, but what a versatile unit! Any idea why it's called 'Disting'? Sounds a bit like a Jamaican accented 'This thing'. Like - what do I need for this gap in my patch? Dis ting!

I'm currently testing Plaits in VCV Rack, going through the manual at the same time. Am I wrong or is this a fantastic sound source? I mean there are so many sonic possibilities just with this alone. Any ideas on what the advantage would be to go with a more classic VCO over the Plaits? I'm thinking that with a classic (Dual) VCO one would perhaps be more inclined towards finding interesting ways of modifying and shaping the sound source as opposed to a tool that has it all premade?

depending on what you want from a rack then a trigger sequencer like steppy may be useful immediately - if the track is predominantly percussion, for example

in a general purpose rack of this size where I would advise keeping to a single (melodic) voice, pams can adequately cover trigger sequencing - as there is not that much to trigger, as well as envelopes, unipolar lfos and looped quantized random cv for generating melodies

at some point you may want to have more control over over melody - and I would expect this to be before wanting a trigger sequencer - in which case a melodic sequencer not a trigger sequencer is what you would want

sequencer (steppy?)

what are you trying to sequence?? - if it's plonk then I would just use Pams for now

Initially I plan to use Pams as 'the brains' of my rack, but doesn't it make sense to add a sequencer at some point? Or formulated differently, at what stage would it make sense for me to add a sequencer to my setup? I used steppy initially but I'm not fixed on that one specifically, could be anything else.

what a mess
hehehe
maybe instead of the dopefer mixer/vca - something like veils which is both at once would be more appropriate, alm, intelijel and happy nerding make decent alternatives

Hey @ryanthegecko do you mind providing a link to your rack vs. the image?
-- jb61264

Heya, sure thing:

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 10:23

hmm - seems you are confusing complex oscillator with semi modular - DFAM is a semi modular - or are you talking about the drone grone?

what;s the use case for the quantizer? it would appear superfluous to me - don't the sequencers in mom, dfam and bloom have quantizers built in already? maybe not the dfam?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - more utilities!!!!

but if you don't like patching modules together maybe modular is not for you - 5 modules is a tiny patch! which is fine - but there's a reason that vcos come without filters - so you get to choose which filter (or not) is used with which vco, how many vcos are mixed before hitting a vcf, how those vcos are mixed and filtered - do you want to use an lpg instead of a vca? etc etc

doepfer are great full stop! not just when you are starting out...

I think the more you want to actually do "modular synthesis" as opposed to "just connecting some synthesizer modules together to produce some sounds", the more simple building block modules are important, and even when "just... to produce sounds" the addition of simple building blocks into especially modulation is an inexpensive way to implement complexity - and doepfer are especially good at simple building block modules that mostly do exactly what they say they do

I have quite a few doepfer modules - mostly utilities and filters - and I consider them to be as good quality as any other manufacturer - I've not got an adsr though

maybe some of their modules are a bit poorly documented (possibly lost in translation from german to english) and the odd module doesn't work how you might expect, but the same can be said for almost all manufacturers

and whilst he didn't invent modular synthesis, Dieter did start the eurorack format

@Lugia - yeah - I kind of know what you mean, but I'd call it moving basic utilities into the "expensive" row:

the cost of the 1u row is the same as that of a 3u row in terms of rails, inserts/nuts, screws

the difference in case material is generally negligible - unless possibly made from a very rare wood

hp for hp tiles are less functionally dense than 3u modules so will only cover 1/3rd the functionality or so

and all to save 3.5"...

better to get an extra row of 3u unless there is some overwhelming reason - & the only real one I can think of is overhead baggage size limits

might be worth getting a jumble henge to try it out,so my D.O.MIXX would be like a sub-mixer of some sorts?

-- Broken-Form

That's probably how I would use them. I have a few smaller "character" sub-mixers that lead into the Toppobrillo Stereomix, which I like, but I've considered both the Jumble Henge and Soundstage for my end-of-chain mixer. I've also looked at the SSF Vortices for a completely different flavor. I just like to experiment with creative mixing in the rack. Ultimately, you will have way more control with volume, EQ, and panning in your DAW, but these fixed EQ mixers seem like a good solution for live situations and capturing an acceptable quick studio mix.

Looks like the D.O. MIXX has direct outs on each of the five channels, so you could set volume levels there and then send each channel to the Jumble Henge for EQ and panning. The Jumble Henge would allow 11 more inputs and be your main outs at that point. You might be able to do some interesting feedback patching too.
-- farkas

might be worth getting a jumble henge to try it out,so my D.O.MIXX would be like a sub-mixer of some sorts?

Rossum filters are great. I have lineaus and evolution. Morgasmatron is also badass. Lineaus and Morgasmatron have changed my mind about what a filter can be; if I push them I get totally new unexpected signal. Filter as unique topology waveshaper in that case. Very west coast mentality. Evolution on the other hand is a beautiful ladder filter, expensive for a ladder but totally covers what I want from a ladder filter. Those are my three favorite Euro rack format filters so far. If I wanted to add any more filters I would check out the Joranalogue filter or some of the ones mentioned above.

Hello!
So my rack has evolved since this initial post.
Where I am at…
I have a DFAM, PNW and expander, a Mult and sound out.
I have 1500 to spend on some modules.
PLAN:
Maths
Drone Grone or Vampire( wish I saw some more vids on the vampire cause on paper it looks amazing and I’m worried I’m pulled towards the Grone drone course of clouds)
Mother 32
Some kind of quantizer
Echophon
Bloom
Can’t get them all but this was the order I was thinking.
Really loving my DFAM and PNW…I have a digitakt which I’m using for kick, snare and high hat ( love an real high hat and wish I could just have a drummer hitting hats while I mess around)
I know everyone has a different workflow and I’ve been learning about mine…. Love modular but don’t love needing 5 modules to make something musical. Which was why I ventured down the complex oscillator path. Happy the DFAM was my first module but feel like I might have gotten spoiled and think…what that’s just an oscillator with no filter?
Sorry…this turned more into a train of though then post but I guess I just wanted to give some background on my workflow thinking.
Thanks!

While I haven't been able to pick up any other ADDAC filters yet, I did get an ADDAC105 4-Voice Cluster which has an onboard filter, and I love the sound on that one. It's not super-crazy or anything, but just very nice, clean, sharp, and smooth. Love the ADDACs I've been able to use thus far, but I do wish they had more/better CV input options on their lower cost modules.

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 03:05

Lol

Yeah Doepfer is sort of great when getting into modular and sort of not so great at the same time. They are as true "modular" as you get, I think they pretty much invented it, and their modules tend to be on the technical side. Their instructions are always available but sometimes not the most readable/approachable. I've typically found their UI layouts, while always clean and consistent, to be on the needlessly unintuitive side in some cases.

Beyond that I've found with ADSRs in general that the LED indicators tend to often not behave entirely as I would expect, nor in fact the ADSRs themselves. I've found the Doepfer ADSR I have to be particularly, mm... uncooperative for my purposes, maybe we could say? ... and I prefer my dual Soundforce ADSR. But I've found ADSRs in modular generally to be a much different animal than they were in the digital applications I'd always used before -- way more sensitive and particular, often with what seem to be threshold points where a tiny millimeter of a dial turn will suddenly make a big difference to the sound even though the previous quarter-of-a-dial seemed to barely do a thing. That's often the frustrating thing for me, feeling like my "workable" area in each ADSR always falls into a very tiny range of the dial or knob. Those and EGs have definitely been a learning process for me as I've gotten into this hobby. That said when used creatively they've been a great tool ... but I don't always use them in the same straightforward ways I would in digital applications.

Anyway, all the advice already provided covers it pretty well, just empathizing with the struggle I guess.

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 03:00

Tiles are space-savers...but only with certain modules. For example, I deleted the Joranalogue mixer from the original build because Intellijel's got their QuadrATT, which gives you one more mixing input/attenuverter for cheaper ($179-ish vs $79). And the Noise Tools solves the noise source and sample and hold issues. But when there's no need for tiles, then yes, Jim's right on that. However, for portable rigs and definitely for one-row skiffs, tiles make a good bit of sense for shifting the basic utilities out of the "expensive" row.

I get fussy about tuning, so my tuner of choice is actually a Peterson Strobetuner. Yep, with the motorized disc, the line-frequency neon lamp, all that fun stuff BECAUSE you can detune up or down with precision due to the Strobetuner's cents vernier dial and the strobe disc's "motion". And if I'm seriously chasing some REALLY out there scalar stuff, I also have a frequency counter. If it worked for Rick Wakeman back in the early 70s, it'll work great today, too!

Hey @ryanthegecko do you mind providing a link to your rack vs. the image?

These are good fixes...but the REAL fix is this one book, probably one of the best books on electronic and/or studio mixing strategies of all time. And it's from 1913! Vide:

https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Orchestration-Nikolay-Rimsky-Korsakov/dp/B09BGLY3V8/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3GST0Q37CGQYW&dchild=1&keywords=rimsky+korsakov+principles+of+orchestration&qid=1629508971&sprefix=rimsky-korsakov+orchestration%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-6

No lie. This was the orchestration text we used for my instrumentation and orchestration classes in undergrad...but I noticed that Rimsky-Korsakov's concepts of how to keep various orchestration layers from clashing/overrunning each other also worked perfectly when mixing multitrack audio. No oboe or cor anglais? OK, there's some electronic signal that sounds like 'em, so why not deal with those the same way, albeit with faders and EQs? By doing this sort of "ab extensio" sort of approach to this book, you'll find that mixing and composition in electronic media gets WAY easier, and your mixes sound tighter.

One other caveat: if you're using EQ while multitracking, NEVER boost. Always cut. The only times you'd use boost on an EQ will either be to accentuate frequency bands within a sound, as an effect, or gentle and wide boosts on a mixbus program EQ during mixdown, and even there, you don't want to go bug-nutz on boosting. You can always pull levels up...but bringing them down can actually really mess with your ability to control the mix because you'll get a false perspective from the hotter signals.

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 01:32

Good idea as well, I’ll probably go that route after getting the Behringer ARP 2600 (which I believe might be closer to what I’m looking for than the minibrute). Thanks everyone for all the help!