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Help me with this rack im trying to build,currently i have bought the arturia 3u rackbrute

+1 on Behri, they’re pretty much the only corporate devil in euroland. Buying from any other brand is a way to support the community :)

I'm the same about the b-company

There are no eurorack companies that come anywhere near close in size to them

Doepfer is (iirc) 4 people
Mutable is one

etc etc

I know you don't, don't worry about that!

Sorry you got ripped off, that sucks :(

So, I sell something at a high price, but then someone else comes along and sells the same thing for a low price, does that make me slimy?

I don't think it does... it's certainly not my intention to rip anyone off, my intention is to get my ass out of trouble by any legal means necessary. I am not being dishonest. I am not breaking any laws.

This is why we have laws. So we can differentiate between criminal activity and free markets.

Or do you believe that markets should be further regulated and buyers and seller controlled beyond the point they are now?

I am not sure that would be such good idea. How would it be regulated?

I would rather trust that the person doing the buying is in a comfortable position to do so and is doing it of their own free will.

As for the suggestion that I would rip off some excited young kid, well... come on! Are you implying that people doing nothing other than listing their stuff for sale at a high price are ripping people off? I don't think they are.

To 'rip someone off' there has to be some intent to mislead, manipulate, etc. that means you are dishonest and tell lies to con someone out of money. Listing something for a high price does not constitute that.

Listing something and lying about what it actually is, the condition it is in, passing off fakes as the real item etc. that is ripping someone off.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's a bit sketchy to say the least.

Lets keep it real huh!?

Anyone have one of these mults? We have been trying to track one down and can’t seem to find one...

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/2hp-pmkn

I do get that I have way more sound sources than I need, there were a couple things I happened to get a good deal on and just wanted to have them. I'll probably just work with one of the sound sources to start until I learn more.

OP: please post a link to the actual public rack - so we get click-through and infomatics - jpgs are next to useless - for helping us help you!

my basic thoughts echo @LYFoulidis

I would strongly suggest doing a lot more research before starting buying anything!!!!

at the very minimum: read through some other newbie threads - see what others have been advised in similar situations (there are thousands and thousands of these - you may be special, but you are not unique!)

-- JimHowell1970

Do I just copy/paste the URL? Guess we'll see if that works:
(Hmm... I can't get it to show the right one. It keeps showing an old version. I'll try again later.)
Actually the .jpg in the initial post is of an old version of it too, but ... I guess that's still the gist of it.

EDITED Apr 8th 2021, 02:51

I don’t think you should see the Doepfer BBD as a normal BBD delay. If I’m right there is no filter for the BBD clock noise, which is an awfully harsh sound that lowers in frequency as you lengthen the delay time. So if you’re using it as a normal delay, make sure to add an extra lowpass filter just for the feedback path of the delay. It’s an amazing creative module for time-based fx and karplus strong synthesis, though - and if you decide to get the extra filter, it’ll be an extremely flexible delay!

I heard something about this, but ... we'll see how it goes I guess. I'm more interested in experimental and interesting sounds than standard FX, so it should be fine. I've actually tried to sort of order more than I may need in some respects while I have the opportunity to do so, figuring some will be traded or sold off depending on what kind of workflow I find myself falling into and which units I enjoy the character of the most. Polished certainly isn't always my pref. I had a Korg SQ-1 sequencer, and a Rucci 16 step sequencer, and recently had to trade one off ... I opted to part with the SQ-1. It does way more than the Rucci, which is purely CV and a little wonky, but I just enjoy working with the Rucci, it does what I want and has character and charm.

Apart from that, the usual stuff people forget: attenuators, mixers, VCAs. There are quite a few sound sources in this rack, you’ll need ways to control them. I have only 3 monophonic sources in my current rack, and about 10 VCAs, 4 mixers and 3 attenuators. But if you start with purchasing the voice that interests you the most, you’ll find out on the way! Just don’t buy too quick and take the time to get to know your modules :)
-- LYFoulidis

Hmm, thanks for the tip. Those are startling numbers to be sure. I've heard people tend to underestimate the VCAs they need, but I thought between the Quad VCA, ADDAC unit, and the Mixer I might actually be overdoing it. I might have to reprioritize a bit.

I'm just getting into modular for the first time and have been fishing around in regards to this topic myself. It's kind of pleasant how little negativity there is towards the variety of modular brands out there, probably because many of them are relatively small operations who genuinely love what they're doing/making. I've made a personal decision to avoid Behringer modules, because I've had pretty mediocre experiences with their products, their reputation where craftsmanship is concerned isn't the highest, and their company seems to be ethically pretty sketchy. Their units are dirt cheap for what you get, but I'd rather get that money into the hands of a smaller more dedicated outfit like Instruo or 4MS or Folktek or whatever, where they're not making a billion of the units and seem to really care about what they make.

EDITED Apr 8th 2021, 02:31

Well, I certainly don't wish any ill on you Kel, but I guess I'm just coming from having been on the other end of that transaction. In fact it happened not that long ago when I first joined Reverb and I was just super excited and discovering how much weird, varied analog gear was out there for sale. I got a little excited and in the excitement committed to purchase an FX unit for which the seller was charging about 3x the cost you could easily get it elsewhere.

Now I get "buyer beware" and all that, it was somewhat my own fault for not doing my research more carefully. But if you are selling an item with a hugely inflated cost and you are hoping for/counting on the ignorance of potential buyers in regards to its fair value to score extra money, then yeah, I think that is a really slimy thing to do. I hope things turn around for you, but not at the expense of ripping off some excited young kid who doesn't know better.

Appreciate the great communication and immediately response from @joazinho. Moreover now I know the feedback thread.

thanks to @gerrywing for a perfect description, communication and a very fast shipping. highly recommended seller!

It's been a surreal, brutal, year. I really hope things turn around for you!

@TumeniKnobs that is where I am at. When my 12U Doepfer monster case arrives hopefully this week, I plan to put my modules all in one spot and then just have the monster case/base and MDLR 14u in same area for patch opportunities. I would wait on the Stillson Hammer, as Scott has a new MK3 version coming out soon. Erica Black Sequencer looks great but wait for few firmware updates to fix the bugs as it is too new. The 512 Vector sequencer with expander is super expensive but that or a Cirklon would be the ultimate sequencer for me.

Good response!

I was aware of the Chase Bliss flips, it's one thing to have had something for a while, used it, realised it has acquired value and sold it at what the market will provide, it's another to capitalise like that; it's not exactly in the spirit of the scene is it. Joel is a good person who deserves to be treated better, he has been very kind to me personally for absolutely no reason whatsoever other than he could. I hate to think that his good nature has been taken advantage of in that way.

I probably wrote my words stronger than I really mean, but it is frustrating as hell! I have been self employed for a long time now and I know that the last thing you need to be when looking for work is stressed, so it's this constant effort to remain positive. It's okay for a bit, but with one more rejection or failure and it all gets too much, then I feel silly for being emotional about it all, tell myself it's better to express it then hold it in, shake myself out of it, and then am okay again for a bit, make some progress... but sooner or later it all gets a bit much again... on it goes round and round.

I am obviously being very open here, I know I am absolutely not alone in this. So many people have things much worse than I do. I hope anyone who is struggling, reads this and needs someone to talk to will reach out. My DMs are always open.

Thank you for your kind words. Things will get better :)

It's just the folks who buy something and immediately list it for profit that bug the **** out of me. Hard times/needs must as you say, no issue with that. How do you tell, that's the question. For me, it's something like the Chase Bliss collaborations where they sell out, and then the aholes list them for double/triple the price the same day. I was glad to see Joel saying he wasn't doing limited editions anymore because of the phenomenon. So, I think there's quite a difference, and I do sleep quite well at night.

All that said, very sorry to hear you've been through, and are going through, hell.

@sacguy71 - Yes, the case size comment does hit home. I now have two 7Ux104HP cases full. I spent way more than I thought I would when I started at the beginning for the year, but modular is way more fun that I thought it would be. ;-) I'm going try to cool down my spending a bit and settle into going deeper with what I have instead of looking into a giant rack like the Doepfer 12U Monster case.

That said, in the last couple of weeks some of the SQ-64s have been delivered to users in Europe and some of the issues look to be pretty significant. Not unexpected for a new product, but knowing Korg, it might be a good long while before they iron out their issues.

So I am back to my research. Stillson Hammer and Erica Black sequencers looks interesting, but I'm still thinking I want one not in the rack.

@AudioResearch - Your grounding issue with BSP, were you using a power adapter or USB power? The KSP has come back into my sights, even though I am reticent to buy another keyboard.

While I am here, the old adage that everyone is nice until the chips are down and they are pushed just that bit too far is 100% true... seen it, seen it again, now watching it happen to myself in slow motion like a really bad car crash where people are hurt badly!

This lockdown has taken a massive toll, I have personally lost nearly everything, work contracts, friendships, family... and increasingly my ability to cope with anything!

It's not funny!

Seriously considering my options, selling the musical instruments that have always brought me joy and happiness feels like yet another gut wrenching loss after another, but needs must!

So, seriously, anyone who thinks they are being big and clever by attacking people selling things for as much cash as they can get, needs to have a seriously long hard look at themselves in the mirror - how do YOU sleep at night?

If the answer to that question is 'soundly' then you are really, really lucky!!

EDITED Apr 7th 2021, 17:50

Heading this way myself, I have let stuff go for small monies in the past and while there is cursory appreciation at the time, it ultimately feels like at least a small number of folk totally cashed in (no one here).

Going to sell some rare stuff for big monies, for no other reason than I have been out of work for a year and need the cash...

If anyone has a go, they will be violently verbally abused in return! Just no need... mind your own business!

You have more explanations here
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-video-xchng

I personally don't especially mind this phenomenon. The QMMG looks like a pretty sweet module, and it's super rare. If they can find someone who is comfortable paying this price, more power to them, and putting on my empathy hat I can wonder if they need this money for rent, essentials, etc... we are in a pandemic after all. A 6X or 10X markup isn't cheap, but Eurorack is ultimately a hobby. What really bugs me is 10X or more markup for houses, healthcare, college, etc... just my 2 cents.

what old video equipment?

how are you going to drive them via CV input?

NB I am a video synthesist - I have a lzx video synth modular as well as audio!

OP: please post a link to the actual public rack - so we get click-through and infomatics - jpgs are next to useless - for helping us help you!

my basic thoughts echo @LYFoulidis

I would strongly suggest doing a lot more research before starting buying anything!!!!

at the very minimum: read through some other newbie threads - see what others have been advised in similar situations (there are thousands and thousands of these - you may be special, but you are not unique!)

EDITED Apr 7th 2021, 11:50

I don’t think you should see the Doepfer BBD as a normal BBD delay. If I’m right there is no filter for the BBD clock noise, which is an awfully harsh sound that lowers in frequency as you lengthen the delay time. So if you’re using it as a normal delay, make sure to add an extra lowpass filter just for the feedback path of the delay. It’s an amazing creative module for time-based fx and karplus strong synthesis, though - and if you decide to get the extra filter, it’ll be an extremely flexible delay!

Apart from that, the usual stuff people forget: attenuators, mixers, VCAs. There are quite a few sound sources in this rack, you’ll need ways to control them. I have only 3 monophonic sources in my current rack, and about 10 VCAs, 4 mixers and 3 attenuators. But if you start with purchasing the voice that interests you the most, you’ll find out on the way! Just don’t buy too quick and take the time to get to know your modules :)

hi Jim, thanks so much for the in-depth reply! I'm letting everything sink in, doing some more research and will post the result here in a few days.

EDITED Apr 7th 2021, 10:00

Thanks dude :)

Advice? Feedback?

I've done patching in software programs and some semi-modular with a Moog DFAM and Werkstatt, but that's about it. I'm familiar enough to find my way around with a little elbow grease and googling, have learned a bit about how CVs work vs audio, gates and triggers, etc. -- but def. still amateur enough to expect some weird hiccups and things I didn't consider.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1532287.jpg

I figure I'll work mostly with the Doepfer modules initially and probably the 2hps, as I get a better feel for how to patch everything effectively, along with the the 3 VCA/mixing and attenuator type units. Once I feel confident with my understanding of those, I'll start to pepper in the fancy lads one at a time, like the MS Ensemble VCO, Mind Phaser, Rampage, and Typhoon.

Anything you feel is missing or will be problematic or that I might prioritize? My goal, long term, is to explore pretty experimental meandering noise-meets-IDM type stuff. Like Autechre but more fun, say. Structured, playful, a little dramatic. Old material can be found in my blog at https://www.edwardewald.com/blog/

Thanks for taking a peek. Components broken out below. I'd love some on board sequencing and logic, that will probably come in the coming months, but I do have a DFAM, Werkstatt, an EM Clockworks, and a Rucci 16 step sequencer to work with externally, not to mention my PC, and an old Yamaha keyboard that has a MIDI sequencer, so I figured that'd be plenty to start in terms of just getting some things happening. I'd also like a dedicated white/colored noise source, but I figure I can snatch one pretty cheap on Reverb at some point. Beyond that I'll definitely be gravitating towards things like Pachinko and Chance (Qu-Bit), things that facilitate randomness and chaos, but in a controllable way.

If the Doepfer VCO and the MS VCO prove repetitive -- especially with the Mini Shimmery and Mind Phaser in there -- I might sell off one or two of those. I might also pawn off the BBD delay if the Typhoon covers everything for me, though I'm not amiss to the idea of playing with multiple delays, so... have to see.....

Anyway, all thoughts welcome thanks for looking/reading.

Mazzatron Testy Mazzatron Testy
Patch Cable Tester 1 2 HP 21 mm 1 mA 0 mA 0 mA

Mutable instruments Ears Mutable instruments Ears
Contact Microphone 1 4 HP 25 mm 5 mA 5 mA 0 mA

Doepfer A-111-2v Doepfer A-111-2v
High end VCO (Vintage edition) 1 14 HP 55 mm 70 mA 50 mA ?

4ms Company Ensemble Oscillator (Black Panel) 4ms Company Ensemble Oscillator (Black Panel)
Black panel for the Ensemble Oscillator 1 16 HP 25 mm 114 mA 45 mA 0 mA

2hp Brst (Black Panel) 2hp Brst (Black Panel)
Voltage Controlled Burst Generator and Trigger Delay 1 2 HP 42 mm 26 mA 7 mA 0 mA

Doepfer A-121-2v Doepfer A-121-2v
12dB Multimode Filter (Vintage edition) 1 8 HP 50 mm 40 mA 40 mA 0 mA

Doepfer A-141-2v Doepfer A-141-2v
Vintage edition panel version of the A-141-2 ADSR/LFO 1 14 HP 70 mm 40 mA 30 mA ?

Doepfer A-188-1v Doepfer A-188-1v
Bucket Brigade Delay Module (Vintage edition) 1 14 HP 60 mm 80 mA 50 mA 0 mA

ADDAC System ADDAC216 ADDAC System ADDAC216
Sum & Difference 1 8 HP ? ? ? ?

Blue Lantern Modules Mini Shimmery MK2 Blue Lantern Modules Mini Shimmery MK2
Percussive Metallic Generator 2 10 HP 64 mm ? ? ?

Hexinverter Électronique Mindphaser Hexinverter Électronique Mindphaser
next-gen analog complex oscillator || thru-zero phase modulation in the analog realm 2 30 HP 24 mm 110 mA 100 mA 0 mA

2hp S+H (Black Panel) 2hp S+H (Black Panel)
Dual Analog Sample and Hold 2 2 HP 42 mm 5 mA 5 mA ?

Befaco Rampage Befaco Rampage
Dual Sergesque Slope Generator with Logical Crossfading 2 18 HP 30 mm 110 mA 90 mA 0 mA

CalSynth Typhoon - Black aluminum CalSynth Typhoon - Black aluminum
Expanded Clouds with sliders 2 16 HP 25 mm 160 mA 35 mA 0 mA

Doepfer A-135-2v Doepfer A-135-2v
Quad VCA / VC Mixer (Vintage Edition) 2 8 HP 45 mm 40 mA 40 mA 0 mA

Doepfer A-138sV Doepfer A-138sV
Mini Stereo Mixer 3 8 HP 30 mm 10 mA 10 mA 0 mA

I'm pretty sure that it is a clocked LFO, not hard synced. The internal topology is something like :

Master clock -> clock divider/multiplier -> ... [stuff?] ... -> Wave form generator -> Quantiser -> Out

so you will always get a complete cycle of your waveform. Unless it's being skipped or randomly phase shifted. (See "stuff" box, above.)

Nice payoff here @wishbonebrewery, thanks for sharing 🎧

maybe a bit of background...

what are you going to use this with and what are you hoping to achieve?
-- JimHowell1970

I am planning to make some glitchy video feedback loops using old video equipment driven by CV input.

I recently got a Squid Salmple and while I've not gotten to use it much yet (life!) it's pretty sweet, I'd definitely check it out.

LOL

Hello all,

Does anyone have a good suggestion for a sample playing module which is good for loops? I'm currently using Disting Mk.4 for this but I'd like to use it for other things.

I was looking at the Tiptop One but it seems better suited for one shots since the sample management is so minimalistic. (On the Disting I have folders for different tempos, for example)

Thanks. I get all of that. pretty hard to fit the 4U proteus into 3U. I expect a screaming cat in the corner
Gaxxard

Lapsos Os and Planar 2 on my list plus Verbos mini horse

NP :-)

I think planning too much is a bit daft - the plans often change as soon as the first (group of) module(s) is/are bought!

Case is big enough - I guess its a b-company go - just watch out for power consumption especially the -ve rail - I have a mantis (which is what the b-company cloned the psu for the go from) but it is 30% smaller - I have issues with -ve rail consumption in it depending on modules (but I do have some really -ve rail hungry modules)

personally I'd just dive in with the minimum viable synth I suggested above (including the utilities) and have an idea of where you are heading (rough number of voices etc - so that when you come to expand you can for example get the right final stage mixer to start with)

the only thing I would think about long term is whether drums in the rack are a thing you need - or whether you'd be better off with a drum machine (or similar - I have a vermona drm1 mk2, I sometimes use) as they usually work out substantially cheaper (but saying that I also have percussion in the rack!)

in terms of how many voices I'd want in this size rack - drums plus 3-4, or 5 maybe 6 without drums - otherwise not enough space for everything else!

btw - for a tuner - there are lots of free phone apps!!

Thanks Jim! Very good advice which I will heed. I'm still very much in the rough draft phase of this setup, and haven't begun to add any modulation/utility/VCA's modules etc. Maybe I will ping you when it's in a better place, would love to hear your thoughts!

this rack is unplayable, imo, it is voices and effects and a not so great starter modulation section (more focussed on repeating modulation than on generating it) and no way near enough support modules to be able to make it function in anyway that I can see you wanting it to!

to me this rack says you want to create a complete track with it and have found all the things you think you want but have not done any research into what you actually need to make it work - including reading other newbie check my rack posts!!!

there are 10 audio outputs and only 3 audio mixer channels and no mixing for control voltages??? that is not enough basic mixing for any of this (covers the drums) - so I hope you have a good external mixer with lots of spare channels (9 spare would be good)

there are no envelope generators - drones only then? and nothing to trigger them with anyway!

there is no sequencing/midi->cv etc? how are you going to play this? send v/oct to the modules by esp? or just randomly turn the frequency knob?

basically for each "voice", "most people" will want/need a large subset of: one or more sound sources, a submixer, a modulation source (or 2 or 3 or more), some vcas (somewhere in the range of 0-10 usually depending on how many you use for controlling modulation), a sound modifier, a sequencer channel (or more) and a couple of different utilities

and then probably the same again at the rack level - a mixer channel for each voice, possibly a vca for each voice, an end of chain reverb, maybe some other effect (delay, lofi for example), probably a bunch of modulation sources and utilities etc etc

some of your sound sources (bassline and plaits) are 'full voices' so won't need a filter or audio vca (what you send the envelope to for creating a note) - but you will need them for voltage controlling volume and modulation purposes - also vcas are really useful - want an auto-panner 10% of the time use a couple of vcas (and a mult, an inverter and an lfo), want a side-chain compressor - mix the envelope (owith an inverted copy of the side-chain and use a vca

generally the best thing to do is start with one voice (a minimum viable synth) and play with that for a while to get used to a modular way of thinking

a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source*, a way to play, a way to listen

immediately (or next) add an utility starter set of (something like) mutable links, kinks, shades and veils - doesn't have to be those exact modules - but cover the functions - wmd/ssf toolbox covers a lot - get a quad cascading vca though!!!!! at first this can also double as a mono output

then play with it for a few weeks/months (to learn it exceptionally well) and then start looking to add more - getting new things as you find you need them rather than blindly following a plan

*for a starter modulation source I always recommend Maths - it is reasonably simple to understand at a basic level and is also incredibly deep - see the illustrated manual (available online) for details of 32 ways to patch program it - I strongly suggest that anyone who does buy this module spends some time working through these examples - patch programming is a very powerful modular synthesis technique and what you learn will carry over very well into the rest of your modular journey

EDITED Apr 6th 2021, 17:45

Most of the modules I like are already named, especially in the first reaction to your question.
(Sound Machines LS1 light strip, DivKid Mutes and the Acid Rain Navigator).

But 1 great solution I like very much is not named yet:
the Lapsus Os from Noise Engineering.
I really like that module, I have 2 of them in my current system.

-- ThunderSound

That Lapsus Os looks interesting

I haven't tried it, but if allflesh works it may be an interesting way of adding interactivity to any module you already own.

also need
- cables, splitter ones too
- tuner

EDITED Apr 6th 2021, 15:43

Not sure if it will work with the height but you can try.
Whatever you do please set the Do not list this module flag when uploading.
Mods will delete the "modules" if they appear in the browser.

This chrome extension will hide the cat when in rack view.

You people

I know what you mean about the screen on Pams - it's difficult to see in any light!

-- JimHowell1970

That PNW Display is really hard to read. Especially because its red.

I'm not sure but I think that I've read somewhere that this is only a red foliage. The Display should be the same as the one in the System Coupe.

Most of the modules I like are already named, especially in the first reaction to your question.
(Sound Machines LS1 light strip, DivKid Mutes and the Acid Rain Navigator).

But 1 great solution I like very much is not named yet:
the Lapsus Os from Noise Engineering.
I really like that module, I have 2 of them in my current system.

EDITED Apr 6th 2021, 08:58

Guy listed it for $5000, now down to $3500. Sold "as is." How do these people sleep at night?

I love joystick and touch sensitive modules like Planar, 0-ctrl and Tetrapad. Hands on and loads of fun!
I have these except for Planar but tried one at friends place and it is better than my Befaco Joystick which is so-so.

Sure, nothing to hide! :)

Hi Jingo,

Thanks a lot for the details! :-) Kind regards, Garfield.