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i have used theabove technique for many years in the DAW.

have ordered the A-160-2

next week i will get a D.o.m.i.x.x mixer module from Bloodcells audio
and i finally can start to use my Eurorack system

Hi All,

This is my first thread so let me say Hi to all of you :)

Im new into modular world but i have some experience with sound design and music in general.
Right now im trying to complete the initial mockup of a rack that i would like to build.
The purpose is to create music without computer - the computer would be used only to record and do a post production.
I do not have any sequencer choosen as i completly do not know what will fit my needs so for starters i would go with korg seq 64 i think.
I aim for ambient/ electronic music (Abul Mogard; Alessandro Cortini like).
The area where i struggle is selection of utilities: envelope generators (although i have the maths, tides and doepfer); lfos and a good delay.
I would like to ask for a review of my current selection and a little bit of guidence :)

link to rack -

Thanks in advance,
Karol

Seems to be a problem with all wider racks.
-- erdgeist

I have reverted some changes wich might be the cause for the problem. Does that fix your problem?

If you are diyer you can build a Kassutronic quad attenuverter / mixer.
Basicaly the first attenuverter provides +5 -5 v when nothing is patched at the input.
And there is a build option to do the same with the 3 other.
All of them are summed at the sum output.
Use center detent pots.

Erogenous Tones Levit 8 do it well too.

Cheers

I hadn’t thought about it from a recording perspective.

The demonstration scenario I saw for this technique is literally all in a DAW (Live) with a VST sine as the source and sub, and a copy of that source/sub then routed to literally anything one might imagine usable as a distortion / waveshaper. They illustrate it with IZotope Trash2 which is certainly a distortion unit, but also with compressors super overdriven to become nonlinear and distorting. Actually that’s kind of the magic of this technique, is that with enough input gain into the subsequent processor you can get all kinds of grit and nonlinearity from processors you would never really expect to use as distortion. Then on the back end you use filtering and level to get just as much sizzle bright or harsh as you want. And all of it it very dynamic/playable and all of it tracks the source pitch perfectly. It’s an exciting and bottomless technique IMO, one I need to keep remembering and practicing.

Glad it’s of interest to you. Yes check it out!! Cheers, NG

BTW from producerdojo.com I learned an interesting technique which is basically distorted sine sub bass. Step 1: have a pure sine tuned to your sub frequency, which gives you a very controlled and very powerful fundamental. Step 2: mult that to another pathway, distort the hell out of it to taste, highpass filter it so you can add it on top of your pure sub without problems, and do other filtering plus leveling for control to taste. The results are i) you get a powerful controled sub ii) you get a fizzy or nasty top you can mix in to taste iii) you can CV or otherwise change the top for lots of expression / variety iv) everything tracks pitch, gliss and dives perfectly. I've done this in VSTs but not yet my eurorack setup, should work fine in eurorack.
-- nickgreenberg

That technique may stem from the way bass is usually recorded. Duplicate tracks, one low-passed stays clean, the other hi-passed gets distortion.
Sounds like a very interesting idea to apply that to the Eurorack mindset. I'm definitely going to try it.

Ah it works again, great, listening again :-)
-- GarfieldModular

Ha ha! :) Good news! Glad you liked it. Regards, MLC

Hi,

I don't know what the current draw is for the +12v eurorack version is but FWIW below is what I measured for the +-15v 5U version.
75 mA +15V
27 mA -15V
0 mA 5V

At least that might give you an idea? It will probably draw more current at the lower voltage of +-12v so below is a calculation based on the numbers above but . . . . I may be wrong so don't quote me! ;-)
94 mA +12V
34 mA -12V
0 mA 5V

John

Ah it works again, great, listening again :-)

Hi ModLifeCrisis,

Oh wow! This is beautifully done, I love this track. I am going to listen this again so much to discover and to like here :-)

Hmm, it hangs now :-( I hope this is only temporarily.

Anyway, thank you very much for this great track and nice video as well! Kind regards, Garfield.

by the time you take into account 4 guitars and a bass, fx pedals etc, I'm probably way over that

my modular is a combined audio video synthesizer

if i remember rightly you can use the bsp as a midi interface - but I might be mistaken - I have one but never tried to use it for that = definitely woorth checking the manual

I need more envelopes - I'm thinking Zadar (when available) AND the Doepfer a-143-1

Thanks again for taking the time to walk thru this... it’ll take me a minute to absorb and try any of this. But the mindset I’m taking is as you say — it’s frustrating, but a part of the decision to get into modular to begin with was to learn more about this stuff and not be intimidated by working w electrical components directly. So it’ll be edifying in that respect if nothing else. I have a couple multimeters, but no oscilloscope. Any you recommend? Also, do you have a link to a commercially available PSU you’d recommend for modular? Can’t afford either at the moment, but even if things work out w the Meanwell, once I move into my new house, I plan to get some woodworking tools and build my own custom case later in the year.

Thank you all! I'm excited for sure. It will be a year, probably, before it's out in the world (money is funny when you're doing things DIY), but it's in progress.

Question: why not just tune it lower vs. have derived suboctaves (as discussed above)?

BTW from producerdojo.com I learned an interesting technique which is basically distorted sine sub bass. Step 1: have a pure sine tuned to your sub frequency, which gives you a very controlled and very powerful fundamental. Step 2: mult that to another pathway, distort the hell out of it to taste, highpass filter it so you can add it on top of your pure sub without problems, and do other filtering plus leveling for control to taste. The results are i) you get a powerful controled sub ii) you get a fizzy or nasty top you can mix in to taste iii) you can CV or otherwise change the top for lots of expression / variety iv) everything tracks pitch, gliss and dives perfectly. I've done this in VSTs but not yet my eurorack setup, should work fine in eurorack.

If the clock divider technique (from above) works well, I'll need to add that to my box of tricks and try it in eurorack soon!

EDITED May 8th 2021, 22:24

@Sound_trace, welcome to modular and Modular Grid!

A few comments:

-- re: modules, yes, Ladik and Doepfer have a lot of interesting modules you might look at. You have Genie from Non Linear Circuits in the rack above, have you looked at their other modules? They have a ton of interesting stuff IMO, I don't own any yet but I will be adding some of their Chaos and other modules in the next year. Metabolic Devices Coherence is interesting and also on my wish list -- I would call it an "esoteric comparator" basically. ADDAC has a lot of good and interesting modules, too many to name here. Erogenous Tones (which you already have in your rack) -- their Radar and Blip could give you a lot of additional fun, Radar is more than just 8 more envelope / lfos (as if that wasn't enough).

-- quickly eyeballing your setup, I'm not seeing a lot of logic or derivator modules. IMO that's a category you could beef up on especially given your experimental interests. Doepfer, Ladik, NLC have a lot in these regards. https://www.analogueresearch.com/product-page/artificial-neural-network when it is back in stock later this year is an interesting option.

-- I know you mentioned you sequence from the DAW. If you ever want to change that, Five12 Vector is something new for me I'm loving. A great sequencer with a big expander unit -- lots of firepower.

-- your query reminds me of a post I saw here: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9928 That user is doing a lot of interesting stuff, you might check that post and suggestions

-- I'm very interested in eurorack control schemes, this TLDR post of mine interests me a lot and has gotten a whopping zero replies. BUT if you check out the 3 threads referenced near its top, you'll find a lot of interesting discussion, suggestions, and demo rack builds especially some generative rack builds by Lugia, see here: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9906

-- beyond the question "what additional modules" I would suggest you consider "what proportions of what module types" as an interesting and helpful guide. I know JimH has many times said something like "sources < modifiers < control signals < utilities" -- that is not verbatim what Jim said, but kind of close. Some of your text above tells me you're probably already considering in a similar manner? Anyway, I think its a good suggestion from Jim and bear repeating; it has helped me to think of classes and #s of various modules first, then of "what specific next module do I need?" second. This helps build a coherent setup and have real synergies with the modules one already has.

The ideas above are not linear or exhaustive, just a bunch of responses that came to mind when I saw your setup and inquiry.

BTW the build you have above is already something I would be excited about. Good luck with your future explorations!

Nicholas

EDITED May 8th 2021, 21:50

Another possibility would be the Tiptop Fold Processor...this gives you a dual-input waveshaper (with CV control) AND an audio suboctave divider. Not only can this do the suboctave division, but you also have the ability to do a lot of timbral alterations to inputted signals.

OK...I opted to show what a full-on modular for the sort of soundtrack work you do would turn out. This build is based on a pair of Tiptop Mantis cabs with their connecting hinge add-on.

Yep, it's much bigger than the original, but the objective here is to show an "optimal final configuration", which should give you a decent aiming point for that.

Top row: Two Plaits, then a Void Gravitational Waves, which is a complex dual VCO with its own ring modulator. The Fold Processor allows you to mangle the waveforms of these, even via crossmixing the waveforms, plus it also gives you a subbass divider. A Veils then allows VCA level control and/or mixing of all of this. The A-106-1 VCF (actually a dual VCF, as this is based on the MS-20 Sallen-Key pair) is tandemmed with an Erica Pico BBD so that you can easily insert this delay into the A-106-1's resonance path, with some very interesting results! Then I put in a G-Storm Delta VCF (a copy of the Korg Delta/Poly-61 VCF) for more pad-like behavior, and after this, the Rings.

Second row: This is your modulation row, although the external preamp/envelope follower is at the left end and potentially feeds into the top row...but you can also use this as a modulation source by sending it audio and using only the envelope follower to track the incoming dynamics. The Frankentides is an expanded dual Tides clone for long LFO curves. The uLoaf is two somewhat conventional LFOs with the usual Noise Reap crossmodulation weirdnesses. After this is Maths, then a dual rectifier which can force over-zero or under-zero modulation signals out of the usual bipolar ones. The MISO is a modulation manipulator in addition to a DC-coupled mixer with CV tricks. And after that, three linear VCAs which can also CV-controlled mix modulation signals. The Quadrax handles the AR/ASR envelopes, with its Qx expander allowing cascaded behavior as well as the ability to trigger other actions. Then for ADSR envelopes, I put in an Instruo Ceis for CV-controlled envelopes, and a Doepfer A-140-2 for fixed-level ADSR envelopes.

Third row: The Verbos Random Sampling module gives you a comprehensive array of random signals and noise colors, plus it also contains an analog shift register that can also function as a quad sample and hold. After this is an array of modules for messing with timing signals coming off of the ES-9: a CVable clock divider/multiplier, a step counter, quad gate swing, dual probabilistic pulse skipper, a dual Boolean logic module, Xaoc Bytom for combining clock/pulse signals, and a dual window comparator for picking gates off of modulation curves as well as a "squaring" waveshaper. Following this are two VERY destructive audio mangling modules from Schlappi Engineering, then the Instruo Lubadh sampler, which is positioned so that it's easily usable with the mixer.

Bottom row: There's the ES-9, then a Make Noise Rene which can function both as a sequencer AND a touchplate controller. An AI Synthesis matrix mixer allows you to manually alter CV/mod routings, mixing, and levels. Then the effects: a Tiptop Zverb, Happy Nerding's FX Aid XL, and a clone of the Mutable Warps module designed to fit into a 6 hp space. The Toppobrillo Stereomix2 is the main system mixer, with VCA control over levels on each input, plus CV over AUX sends and panning as well as muting on each input channel. This also gives you a "cue" channel in case something needs adjustment on the fly, plus a stereo AUX return. This mixer allows you to automate a number of functions while you're free to adjust other aspects of a patch.

Missing: I got rid of a number of the original modules because of size vs. functionality issues. For example, there's little point in having a single VCA taking up the same space as four of them. The NE VCO got tossed so that you can have two identical Plaits, which you'll find a much better choice, especially for detuning to fatten up the sound, plus they'll sound very distinct when you also employ the Gravitational Waves at the same time. And so on...the whole point was to up function while conserving space. And as for that last thing, I didn't spec any multiples since this would take up space in a smaller-sized build of this sort, and using inline mults makes far more sense under that circumstance.

Extras: Two of them, actually. If you look at the left ends of the top and third rows, you'll find Konstant Labs' PWRchekrs, as this allows you to keep an eye on your DC busses "health" at a glance. Very, VERY useful little things, those.

Again, this is more of a "destination" build, but at the same time, it's not all that prohibitive. Keep in mind that this is a 416 hp build, which is actually pretty sizable...but it comes in well under $10k, even with a few rather spendy modules in there. But this does what you need sonically (and then some!) for film work, right down to being able to split patches out into individual tracks for the DAW.

I highly recommend Batumi for LFO that thing rocks especially with the Poti expander. Utilities- agree with Jim here: kinks/links is great combo and I also recommend SSF/WMD Toolbox. Toolbox is a small module power packed with all sorts of goodies like comparator, switch, logic and so forth. For VCA- the Intellijel Quad VCA is really good and super easy to use. Pam is a great clock and can do other tricks up her sleeve like random sequences and Euclidian patterns. A good mixer would be Mixup by Intellijel or perhaps a 4 channel mixer like Qu-bit Mixology.

I found larger case good start point as you will outgrow the small case fast! I filled up two Doepfer 6u cases and use those for travel now. The Mantis cases are great.

Another great tune, looking forward to the album 🎷

OK...to check the P/S, you're going to need the following:

1) A multimeter.
2) An oscilloscope.

Fact is, if you're doing electronic music, you should have these anyway. They're essential troubleshooting tools. Anyway, what you would do is to put the multimeter across the different 12V legs while putting the modules back in. Since you're apparently not close to the current limits, what you'll want to look for is a voltage sag. When the "offending module" gets connected and you see a drop in the voltage across (more than likely the +12V) the leg in question, you've found the issue. You might also consider swapping the ribbon on that module out, as there might be a connection and/or continuity issue there. Also, check the pins on both the busboard and the module to make sure one isn't bent, causing a potential shortcircuit.

As for the o-scope, again, connect this across the DC legs one at a time while adding modules. You'll set the scope for the proper voltage coming off of the DC leg, and start with NOTHING connected to that DC leg (except the scope) so that you can check for any indications of noise, ripple, or other crap while the P/S isn't under load. If you see anything other than a dead-flat line once the o-scope is connected and set, then the Meanwell itself is defective. But if you don't see any anomalies with no modules connected to the DC leg, start adding modules one at a time...and at the point where the dead-flat line starts to show crud, you will have found the problem module.

And yeah, it's tedious AF...but this is also part of the "bargain" with modular (or most any other electronic music) gear.

One other thing to check would be the busboards, particularly if you have filtered busboards in the build. If something in the filtering (like a capacitor) has failed, that could also cause this. For this, go back to the "nothing else connected" step above, then disconnect the Meanwell supply from the cab's DC busses altogether, and check the Meanwell again. If the P/S output shows as flatline-clean without the busboards, then a filter component failure is the culprit here. And like the modules, connect the busboards one at a time until you find the crud.

So, the overall sequence of events is:

1) Disconnect the busses from the P/S
2) Check the P/S with the multimeter to determine if there's an undervoltage or overvoltage. If there is, check and see if the Meanwell has a voltage adjustment. If this is set wrong, use the multimeter to reset the DC voltage to a dead-on 12V. But if there's no voltage adjustment, then the Meanwell is probably defective. If not, then --
3) Check the P/S with the oscilloscope to check the DC purity. What you should see once the o-scope is set properly for the P/S leg voltage is a ruler-flat line on screen. If you see ripple, noise spikes, etc, then the Meanwell is...yep...probably defective. But if you get a flatline response, then this is good. So next, then --
4) Connect each busboard one at a time while monitoring the oscilloscope. If there are no anomalies in the DC, then --
5) Connect modules to busboards one at a time while monitoring the oscilloscope. This time, when you encounter anomalous behavior, note the offending device, remove it and its ribbon, then continue reconnecting modules. Each time you see crud on the DC leg, set that module and ribbon aside as suspect. Continue connecting modules to busboards until you have the build populated with the "clean" modules. Then --
6) Swap out the ribbons on the "offenders", then connect them to the busboards again. If the P/S crud goes away when each one is reconnected, the problem was in the ribbons. But if the crud comes back, the module you'd just reconnected has a fault. At that point, you can either contact the module's manufacturer, or give the module a good look-over to see if there are any solder joints that appear lumpy, grainy, slopping over other traces, etc. If you feel confident about your soldering skills, you can try and correct these...but otherwise, take note of which solder joints look bad and include info about these when contacting the manufacturer.

Now, if the Meanwell IS defective, then you've obviously got to replace it. But if this is necessary, one thing I would strongly suggest would be to replace it with a LINEAR power supply. Yes, they're more expensive. Yes, they weigh a ton. But because of their circuit topology, they CANNOT impose noise signals onto the DC busses because linear supplies divide DC via a transformer (while still in the AC domain) and NOT via switching circuit schemes which tend to have more noise, usually in the ultrasonic range. Both of my modular systems (Digisound 80, AE) use linear supplies...and in fact, the Digisound's was specced by the man, myth, and synth legend Kevin Lightner, who definitely knew his power supplies. Plus, my power solution for the AE system was to utilize a lab-grade linear Tektronix supply to feed its 9VDC inputs...again, these do amazing things for synth audio quality, stability, and getting rid of noise. If the Meanwell has to go, this is the better choice anyway.

During the pandemic I bought a tiny modular system and once I learned the rudiments of how to patch I began recording a series of 'Covid Drones' as a way to learn modular and process my experience of Covid 19 in the UK. This is the final track I recorded and relates to Lockdown. It is inspired by the many walks my partner and I took in nearby woods when everything else was shut down.

The patch is performed live and features a drone from both channels of Make Noise Maths, fed into an MXR Carbon Copy guitar pedal. I also have some notes of a ukulele fed into the Morphagene - during Lockdown I had a lot of time on my hands and spent a fair bit of it playing the ukulele.

At the end of the piece I bring in a simple melody from Plaits - the melody is based on the notes produced by old-style ambulances - we heard quite a few ambulance sirens in the streets, especially at the start of the pandemic.

I've just tried on my Doepfer A-160-2 and it works. Great tip by way, I hadn't thought of that.
Plus having the option to change between triggers and gates you get two different timbres to choose from.
-- Mazz

awesome then i think its safe for me to put in a order for the A-160-2:)

I've just tried on my Doepfer A-160-2 and it works. Great tip by way, I hadn't thought of that.
Plus having the option to change between triggers and gates you get two different timbres to choose from.

Thanks so much Jim! Good points to consider!

1500hp!! Damn! You’re packing some serious heat! An old buddy of mine in town has like (and I’m likely guessing low) $50,000 worth of gear (buchlas, full Moog systems, homemade wall mounted spring reverbs, stuff for modular camcorder video art and a bunch of wild shit like saws, bows and the type of stuff you’d only see at art installations) so I’ve seen first hand how original plans can expand right quick! (He’s a genius though with off the charts curiosity!)

I’ve already ordered the mutable clones unfortunately but am used to tiny knobs (have a few Volcas: FM, Modular, Keys and Drum). Will spread the clones apart a bit so they’re not too close to each other I suppose.

Also have a BSP pro and Microfreak for some added fun (and an AFX station)

So I’m guessing I’m still on the hunt for:

1) MIDI in (mutant brain perhaps or cheaper module)

2) Quad ADSR (zadar or the dopfer one)

3) End of chain mixer (Tex-mix or similarly priced alternative)

4) links and kinks

5) an FX unit (FX aid xl or pico dsp)

5) More vca’s (veils)

6) a basic analogue OSC (Dixie2 or STO?)

7) Pam’s New Workout

MIDI in might be next as I have a few iPad apps that I’d like to incorporate into this from time to time (AUM, miRack, Rozeta suite, Xynthesizr, Genome etc) for alternate sequencing. Am trying to avoid computers/screens etc but an iPad isn’t quite as bad for that as a laptop.

I appreciate the help from all here and wish all of you a great weekend! Stay safe and thanks for the help! Maybe 5 years from now I’ll be giving some pointers (as long as the world doesn’t go full out totalitarian and we’re still allowed to own things based on our social credit scores!)

After the recent site update, when viewing an individual rack it's stretched too tall or something so that the bottom of the rack covers up the statistic information
-- JohnLRice

I’m seeing the error on Firefox/ Chrome and whatever the MS browser is called now (on win10)
-- hrterror

I've got it, too..
-- Lugia

I am not 100% sure if I see what you see, but I have reverted a change that might have lead to the behaviour you described.
Does that solve the problem?

-- modulargrid

Looks better on iOS now.

reCaptcha fix

One new fix for an annoying bug:
We use reCaptcha to fight forum spam.
If you post in the forum and write for more than 2 min the reCaptcha token expired and you had to click submit a second time.
That should now be fixed, because the recaptcha token is now generated on submit and not on page load as before.
(And if this post is saved it's also a test that it works).

Congratulations on your new case!

If you haven't bought the mutable clones yet - I would be seriously tempted to go for the originals
you have a lot more space in the mantis compared to your original rack - they don't cost a lot more in most cases and are significantly more ergonomic than a majority of the clones

there are 4-6 voices in there already (the plaits, rings, clouds clones and disting - 5 if you include maths - and 6 if you include the marbles clone!!!) - I would concentrate on modulation and utilities for supporting these modules rather than adding a 6th voice - links, kinks and shades make a great starter utility set for example - I'd definitely also want more envelope generators (get a quad - maybe zadar? and batumi) - and more vcas (veils is great) - and a better end of chain mixer (I use a tex-mix which is excellent value for money and expandable - and easily diy-able if you can solder) - maybe also a nice effects unit - fx aid xl is great value and decent ergonomically and modulation wise

re filling the case - that's what I thought when I bought my first case - 6 months later I bought a second case - 4.5 years later I have 1500hp with enough space free for my diy backlog!

should do - as long as it is an analog clock divider, which I think the doepfer is

I often use a dreadbox div to do the same thing - although usually I use a square wave from the oscillator too - og tides high/low outputs as the input to the divider

/2 = - 1 octave
/4 = - 2 octaves

im looking at modules to get a Fat Deep Sub in my Eurorack System

Got recommended getting something like this
https://schneidersladen.de/en/doepfer-a-160-2-clock-divider-ii?number=150066

and then run my oscillator thru it,and then mix the square wave suboctave with my main osc.

will that work?

After the recent site update, when viewing an individual rack it's stretched too tall or something so that the bottom of the rack covers up the statistic information
-- JohnLRice

I’m seeing the error on Firefox/ Chrome and whatever the MS browser is called now (on win10)
-- hrterror

I've got it, too..
-- Lugia

I am not 100% sure if I see what you see, but I have reverted a change that might have lead to the behaviour you described.
Does that solve the problem?

Not per se a dark mode issue, but I can no longer zoom out to view my full rack on iPad Safari.
-- erdgeist

That is strange, which rack is it?

Seems to be a problem with all wider racks. For example

This is amazing, thank you for that.

I've made some adjustments, what about now?

I have added veils and Erica synths VCO and other mixer. Not so sure about the instruo but I guess thst Maths is essential? I scraped the Jezebel, not sure if I can get it that easily.

I was thinking about expert sleepers and I think I'll buy it in the future. Seems like a wonderful idea for me. I have Doepfer A-190-3 so it must be enough for now. Upgrading the case is not a problem, I'll do it in the future. I just need to start with something.

I'm very curious about that cinematic - oriented modules, could you recommend some? I guess Noise Engineering is quite capable of making gritty, distorted but also beautiful sounds. I work mostly with horror, thriller and dramas so I guess that would be all right to squeeze more of those.

Once again, thank you so much!

So in terms of further general testing I put the modular through my Yamaha AX-497 Stereo Receiver and directly out to headphones from there ... I don't know if this is "professional" level equipment, but it's the only other real output I have for the mix besides the MG10Xu and my impression is it's a generally HQ receiver. Certainly cost way more than the MG10xu anyway! But anyway this in and of itself made a difference in terms of how easily noticeable the sound was, it was basically inaudible until about the 3 o'clock point on the rotary volume knob, whereas audio levels generally are about as loud as you can comfortably listen to by the 12 o'clock mark. However, the sound was still there, and as I was trying some patches and such, it seemed like it became an interference after a bit, like suddenly there was this faint background hum to the patch that wasn't there in the beginning just out of the blue.

So I began changing some modules in and out, double-checking my connections and whatnot, and eventually found a configuration in which the sawtooth-like noise was not there, and at the 9 0'clock and above level all I would get was a bit of white-noise/hiss from the receiver itself (which I'd expect with the volume at that level). Then I started experimentally adding modules back in ... and eventually would hit a point where the sawtooth-like noise came back. I switched a few things out wondering if it was possible a particular module could be causing it, and if so trying to pinpoint which -- but it seemed to vary and right now my impression is that it's once the power draw is past a certain threshold, that the sound becomes present.

I have quite a few modules, but I have an excel sheet calculating the power draw of everything against the specs of the PSU, and in theory none of the rails should be at more than 50% of what that PSU can supply power for even with every single module installed, soo ... in a way I'm back to square one, but until I learn a bit more about how to check or correct the PSU itself, at least now I have a way to mitigate the issue temporarily (which is basically to only use about half of my case's available space).

EDITED May 8th 2021, 06:24

Thanks again Lugia - went with a used Mantis this morning for $600 Canadian (which is like $20 American lol) and updated accordingly.

The seller also threw in a tin of screws, carrying case and patchcords so i really lucked out!

Haven’t spent too much time in the actual forum here (or any online forum) and am mainly just playing with the rack creation tool but I’m blown away by the support and shared ideas throughout.

Big thanks in order to you (and not just for me but for helping out so many others I’m sure)

Have a good night and take care!

Edit: I won’t come close to filling this for a long time but am hoping for a 2nd voice.

EDITED May 8th 2021, 01:30

Here's another with upright, a little less skronky.

-- baltergeist

Five stars mon ami this is stunning!

Hi Baltergeist,

You got some nice percussion sounds there, I love that. Can't wait for your tracks with some "touch of sax" to it :-)

This is interesting and curious material if I may describe it like that, really interesting for the listener! Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

It does quite a lot, in the rack I put together above you could, just as a few examples

1) Crossfade between different Dixie waveforms with the LEFT and RIGHT inputs
2) Use the AND and OR sections to generate even more rhythms from the DOT
3) Use AND or OR as wave rectifiers to get different harmonics
4) Use FOLLOW as an envelope follower
5) Use CREASE to introduce discontinuities in an LFO generated in Maths, turning one modulation source into two that are related and in sync but that aren't always moving in the same (or even inverted) directions.

5) Fit in a Cold Mac to open up a bunch of logic and modulation capabilities and to find interesting ways to tie different elements together via its various output CVs, all coordinated by its main big old knob.

Could you please write what the main roles Cold Mac will play in this rack? This module is a mystery to me.

That’s a lot of great information, thanks very much for taking the time. That’s very good to know about the mixer to mixer levels especially. I don’t really understand grounding very well, or what a groud lift adapter is or what star-grounding would mean. Before I left for work I removed a couple modules — a Doepfer BBD and a couple 2HP modules — and the noise was no longer present when I briefly tested it. But I didn’t have much time so, I’m going to test it out a bit more later tonight. ( It was a custom build, though the guy who built it just got an electrical engineering degree... )

Yep...you just have to be very "value conscious" when scouting out modules. Case in point: Noise Reap. Noise Reap's modules are inexpensive and often offer some downright warped takes on how "normal" modules work. Sure, they're kinda ugly (but legible!), but if you crave weird complex VCO behavior, they've got you fixed with something like their Paradox, which is just...not...RIGHT, but in all the "correct" ways for $120. So it IS possible to bring a small build in for $2k-ish, but again, you have to proceed VERY carefully and spend the time necessary to dig through the MG database for the "gold".

I've got it, too...it seems like the display page for the builds is defaulting to the maximum free account size. Doesn't seem like a browser issue, either, but more something to do with the Unicorn build limits not being properly dealt with at the HTML level.

It has one, yeah...but the thing is, you need A LOT of VCAs if you're really going to wring quality results out of any modular. The reason for this is simple: VCAs control ALL levels (audio AND modulation), and having "raw" VCAs for this purpose is pretty essential. They also have uses such as four-quadrant modulation (sort of a VCA-based version of a ring modulator) and amplitude modulation (modulating a thruputted signal with an audio-frequency signal from a VCO).

Example: have a look at Mutable's present iteration of Veils. Now, this contains four VCAs which also sum down via a "breakable" mixbus. If you need a separate VCA, just patch its input and output separately, and as long as this output patch doesn't break the mixbus downstream from your mixed VCAs, you're good. Plus, this has that famous and ultra-useful response curve pot, which they pioneered and which allows you to change the behavior of the VCAs continuously from exponential (which is mainly used for audio, as we perceive changes in apparent loudness on exponential curves) to linear (which mainly gets used for modulation, as linear responses don't distort the modulation curve responses that other modules want to see). Note, also, that you can make a linear VCA respond exponentially for audio by feeding it exponential control signals, such as from an envelope generator that can output exponential envelopes.

BUT WAIT...there's MORE! Not only are there two different response curves (in general), you also have two different circuit topologies! When using a VCA to control signals below the bottom limit of hearing down to DC, you have to use a DC-coupled VCA. But for audio...especially at the very end of your signal chain, before the output to the mixer...you need AC-coupled VCAs for a very important reason: you DO NOT want to output DC to your amplification and monitors because, well...

Now, if the objective here is to output numerous separate audio channels in sync with the DAW...THAT has a very elegant solution, thanks to Expert Sleepers: their ES-9 is a soundcard interface module, which gives you 14 outputs and 8 inputs, and which works with any VST-capable DAW via a plugin called "Silent Way". This then lets your DAW sequencer DIRECTLY control the modular via the 14 outputs, which you can dedicate however a project dictates, and you can send eight channels of audio back to the DAW directly from the modular...or if you need to, you can also use the modular clock and feed that down an output channel and then that will become the entire system's clock, with the DAW responding perfectly to any changes you make with the modular's timing. If this is going to be a film scoring rig, I'd strongly suggest something like this.

It seems to me, also, that what's REALLY needed here is a build that's more soundtrack-specific...something that integrates with the rest of the studio seamlessly and which is sort of genre-specific for the majority of your scoring work. As far as that's concerned, something bigger is definitely called for here, as well as something primed for a more industrial/cinematic result. If you're good with majorly upping the size (and cost, annoyingly) of this, you can get into a build that will be able to deal with LOADS of sound for film possibilities with ZERO issues.

Here's another one, with additional percussion. Plumbutter through Beads providing the twinkly tones. I've sourced a sax player so the new record is definitely in the works now.

The out is a Doepfer Mini Stereo Mixer A-138s. This feeds into a Yamaha MG10x external mixer, which...
-- eexee

OK, let's stop there for a bit. For starters, there's a big level mismatch going on, since the A-138s outputs signals at modular voltages (up to 10 Vrms) and the MG10x has a 0 dB input reference at .775 Vrms (consumer level, which means that the input pres are NOT up to pro standards). That's a pretty wide difference, and probably plays a part in what's going on.

Secondly, since you mention that the sound appeared after shifting to the Meanwell-powered cab, are you 100% sure that the grounding for the internal P/S is set up correctly? Given that patching more modules yields more noise, I suspect that you've got a grounding issue, since the patch cables will tend to pick up more crud as they increase in number. Mind you, this isn't an issue unless you've got your AC supply going directly to the Meanwell. Also, by "grounding" I also mean that the patch panel itself cannot "float" relative to the internal DC ground, so double-checking the internal DC ground connections might yield a fault.

Third, if these don't work, the next suspicion would be a ground loop between the modular and some other device, particularly something digital given the character of the noise. Or it's also possible that what you're hearing is good ol' 60 Hz with a considerable amount of distortion from the level mismatch. You can test this by using a "ground lift adapter" if the Meanwell has a 3-prong AC input. Put that on the power cord, plug it back in, and if the buzz disappears, you DEFINITELY have a ground loop issue.

Another way to fix ground loops...and one I strongly urge if you're not living/working where balanced AC power is the norm (Europe, for the most part, has balanced power)...would be an isolation module that would go between the mixer's outputs and the inputs for the mixer. This also has the plus of these having level controls; something like Happy Nerding's transformer-isolated Isolator also gives you a ganged stereo level control to bring the level mismatch under control.

Lastly...and also a ground loop issue consideration...would be to "star-ground" ALL of your gear to a common ground point with some basic hookup wire. And even if you don't have an issue with this, it's still a good idea as it'll help lower your overall noise floor by draining any e-crud to that common ground, where it can then go right onto the ground leg of the AC. I should note that I do this in my studio even if there's no apparent noise/ground issues, as it has some very beneficial results that can wring out a bit more S/N, cleaning up the lowest digital levels.

This works, and I'm glad it's an option, but having the price alongside each module in the Data Sheets does make sense, no?
Cheers,
Stüssy

Sure, but there's "small" and then there's TOO small. With both Keith and Kaitlyn's work, they're used to working with larger modular systems, so you've got to approach that "small" with that point of scale in mind. Also, Kaitlyn's "small" is often something like her Buchla Sound Easel...physically small, but as far as capabilities, not small at all!

That being said, the Mantis pretty much IS the sort of "small" that's being tossed around there. 208 hp, fits in Tiptop's own gig bag, etc...ample room for the right sort of modules, but nowhere near the size of a big studio rig. Building up something along the general equivalency as an Easel in that sort of cab is pretty easy(ish), but in the previous skiff, that wasn't going to happen, mainly because the Buchla has loads of interconnectivity inside of it that isn't so apparent until you sit down with one. Eurorack modules are just not set up like that, so you've got to make sure you've got the room to compensate between "Buchla small" and "Eurorack small".

Hi all,

I've been slowly building my modular system over the last 6 months. I've gone through several phases of what I want out of it, and the conclusion I've come to is this system.. or something like it.. or not.. who knows..

Premise:
- Control Skiff with Endorphines Shuttle Control, being driven by Squarp Pyramid. Control skiff also includes my envelope generators, plus maybe extra modulation/attenuators/verters.
- 2 voices plus drums. I have the option (kind of) of multitracking because I have several inputs on my interface, but honestly I don't think this case will ever need it because I'm focusing on studio production, so recording and overdubbing is most likely how I'll be using this, rather than for live use.
- I have a feeling that some who look at the rack will yell at me that I don't have enough CV or VCAs, but honestly this style has been working for me since its very determinstic dance music, and it isn't for live/generative/multitracking, so I can use what I have efficiently.. I think.

It is 2 voices, plus drums:
- Mannequins Mangrove + Radical Frequencies DPVCO, this can be further modulated by the Serge Ring, HN FM Aid, and the Bifold, and then with several different mixing options into the ACL Ladder Filter.
- Doepfer Quad Precision VCO into their quad vca and filter, and then I have the E440 and Three Sisters to further filter and modulate things. I'm thnking about other additions here, such as the Xaoc phaser or an EQ (maybe AJH finalizer) or something else to make these chords/pads sound nice. At the end of the chain is the Xaoc delay.

• Drums are handled mostly by the Rossum Assimil8or with analog kick coming from BD909. As I mentioned earlier, I will not be multitracking, so I can actually use any combination of the processors in my rack for drum sounds. Plus the 100Grit seems like itll fit nicely to dirty up those samples.

• Bottom row is my CV/modulation. It's not much... but I feel like its getting close to enough, Ochd, PNW, Maestro/E355 (not totally sold on these). Attenuators etc, and I have some more 1u attenuverters.

Think that covers everything. Thanks for checking out the post, let me know what you think!

@troux, that's a fair response. And I would agree, that it doesn't take so much to get "some cool sounds and get a more intuitive and more grounded understanding of synthesis with an instrument that has some open ended possibilities."

And of course @Camposoriol and other folks getting into modular (or considering it) are free to take whatever path seems good.

Cheers all,

Nicholas

Gonna chime in here and say I don't really agree with the view that you've got to spend a significant chunk of change to get value out of a modular setup and I think it's a bad piece of advice we seem to give a lot on this forum. Not everyone needs to have 5k or 20k of Eurorack to enjoy themselves, learn, and have some fun, so the question is: what is your goal? If you'd like to get into modular to become the next EDM superstar then 1-2k is not going to cut it that's for sure, but if you'd like to make some cool sounds and get a more intuitive and more grounded understanding of synthesis with an instrument that has some open ended possibilities, 1 or 2k can go a long way, with the additional (to me huge) plus that it gets you away from your computer. So from my POV, best to encourage people's curiosity and small steps on the journey rather than focusing on an end goal that many aren't even interested in.

My 2 cents for the day!

After the recent site update, when viewing an individual rack it's stretched too tall or something so that the bottom of the rack covers up the statistic information (like the total power usage and costs, etc) I'm using Windows 10 and Google Chrome browser on a PC laptop.
-- JohnLRice

I’m seeing the error on Firefox/ Chrome and whatever the MS browser is called now (on win10)

Same issue on iOS / Safari

EDITED May 7th 2021, 17:03