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I think something like Plaits would definitely allow you to get rid of the 2hp sound sources. And for that matter, Warps (another Mutable module) with the Parasites firmware might come in handy here as well, allowing you to stretch the VCOs you do have a bit further while adding a limited internal oscillator for ring mod, waveshaping, vocoding, TZFM, frequency shifting, and a bunch of other fun stuff. I didn't recommend any module changes at first because this is your system. You know what you like and don't like about it.
And that sort of leads me to why I'm hesitant to recommend any module changes at all. You're already pretty deep into your modular adventure, and you chose your current modules for a reason. If I was to recommend a bunch of stuff that you don't already have, that would be MY dream system not yours. You already noticed that I proposed a workflow that focuses more on rhythm, which is how I use my own rack. I've watched a lot of your videos, so I know that your approach is much more melodic and sort of "generative-ish" than my focus on repetition and noise. Any module recommendations I make would reflect my own tastes and approach, not yours.
I will say, don't be afraid to sell off the modules that you don't use or that don't fit your developing sound. Just be purposeful in what you add and subtract.
Have fun!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts I really appreciate it.
Yes, the demo was built around the modulation track which I just finished that time.
Currently it has 8 cv outputs but I would like to have it at least 16 which could be extended to 32. That's the plan :)
What it can do do now is very limited but my concept is that you could choose from many type of tracks (voice) depending on your needs e.g: Pitch/Gate, Pitch/ADSR, Chords/Gate, Trigger, Modulation, LFO, etc... (limited by my imagination). So you pick a type and the corresponding CV output(s) and it will be added to the user interface as a track. For example I'm currently working on a type that will mimic the (sequencer) interface of DFAM which I really liked.
Yes, to compete with all the sequencers is virtually impossible but almost any functionality could be added on demand.
I also realised I could make this into a sampler with a "few" lines of code...
In my environment the WiFi connection is totally seamless but I'm considering a wired connection in the future as "zero" communication latency would open more possibilities.
I don't currently have a website nor any specifications because this is not much more than a proof of concept ATM. I will share the progress on my youtube channel and will also keep you updated here.
@Farkas - So you favoured triggers and gate flow, I think my original favoured Pitch flow, things do get tight with the 2hp modules even with some of the others, if there are a stack of jacks filling one module then the Pots on the module next to it can be almost impossible to tweak. I can see some interesting sounds coming from mixing the outputs of the Befaco EvenVCO via the Doepfer mixer then onto the SVCA & Moon-Phase. At the moment I'm using the Doepfer mixers to stereo-sum my percussion and the Happy Nerding & Befaco mixers are basically my Output to external mixer.
@Ronin1973 & @Farkas - Filters in the top row, I think this will be done pretty soon, I'm already fighting through wires to adjust them where they are.
@lugia - I'm glad someone said VCOs, this does feel like a glaring hole, I was thinking of sticking fairly traditional and the Honeyeater from ST Modular looks interesting with its wave mixer section which vaguely reminds me of my old Roland MC202.
Yep the Percussion row can be pushed off to another case.
In what way to you mean Complex Oscillator? There are lots to choose from under that headline, something like a Plaits would encourage me to get rid of the 2hp Pluck & Bell and make for more finger room around jacks and pots.
I'd quite like to keep the EvenVCO, as it was a DIY build and for the moment I still feel attached to it.
My main focus in Eurorack is to have fun and learn, if what comes out sounds good thats a bonus.
Cheers
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
And for my take on this...well, I started work on a rework, but then ran into a very disruptive imbalance between actual oscillators and "everything else". Technically, there's only three VCOs here, not counting the drum modules.
With this much modulation and processing in the original build, it makes a lot more sense to figure out what expansion you can do to the oscillator complement to REALLY punch this up. One possibility would be to add a few more basic VCOs, but a more versatile possibility would be to replace the STO and the Befaco with a pair of complex VCOs. These would give you loads more timbral flexibility AND it would keep your modulation sources nice and busy. And they'd make a good mix with the Chainsaw VCO.
So, my question would be this: how much latitude would you like me to have here? Given that you're considering moving all of the percussion to a separate cab, that would open up loads of room to play with.
Ok...let's have a look at this again. First up, if you're using Doepfer exclusively, the case size needs to be kicked up considerably. Their modules don't require chopstick-fingers and have clear layouts and great circuitry, but they tend toward the large side. So, before we get going here, we're gonna punch this up to 126 hp courtesy of THIS: https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/enclosures/studio/1x126hp-skiff-case/ It's got way more space without being huge, the power is ample, and it supports up to 57mm depths...which is important with Doepfer, as a number of their modules exceed the typical 40-ish millimeter depth. Oh, and that's a kickass price (EUR 310) for something this sizable.
100% Doepfer. And this time, I blew the timing section WAY up. What've we got here...?
First is your timing. The first module is a bidirectional switch that switch between two to four in/outs to a single in/out. Then the clock divider and the clock multiplier for ratcheting. Right after that are the trigger delays, then there's a gate/trigger "integrator" and a Boolean logic module, then a "PWM" module that can actually be used to square off other waveforms for LFO-dependant gates. This can also work as a waveshaper for external VCOs. Now, what's going on here is this...Boolean logic takes incoming gate signals and subjects them to conditional states that either output a gate or nothing. OR outputs a gate when any gate is present at the logic stage, but not when there's none or both. AND will output a gate when ONLY there's both gates present. And of course, the inverse versions are also present via the two inverters. This allows you to wholesale manipulate the timing pulses in ways that can't happen without a Boolean logic module and its "pals".
After that, five LFOs. The quadrature LFO is CVable, then there's four non-CV LFOs followed by a 4-in mixer to create composite LFO curves. As for the why behind the quadrature LFO, that module allows you to have four identical LFO sines, save that each one is 90 degrees rotated from the previous output. This is useful for a pile of things...automated crossfading, weird panning strategies, and with the "PWM" module you can take that and generate CV-dependant gate pulses. You can also mix quadrature curves to generate some very strange results.
Then for the "meat", I went with the large quad AD and ADSR modules because these also contain "end of..." patchpoints which can ALSO fire things off via their triggers. The Quad AD also has comparators on each stage to send a gate when the envelopes are either above or below the set voltage threshold. And between these two big modules, I dropped in a Matrix Mixer...basically, it's a "performance controller" for mixing/altering/attenuating any of the voltage curve signals, with four inputs and four outputs, allowing each output to have a different mixture of the incoming modulation signals.
The only thing I really didn't have the space for here would be the noise/random module(s). If this went to a 6U 84 or 104 hp cab, though, there would be ample room for those and a few more bits of troublemaking. But this starts to show the possibilities that open up when you expand the cab from the small 3U x 84 skiff. And it WILL fit the big AD and ADSR quads as far as depth is concerned.
I wouldn't get too attached to the idea of losing the Mini2s...fact is, that's an excellent performance sequencer, has the awesome Steiner-Parker Synthacon VCF (and it's spot-on; take it from an actual former Synthacon owner!), and it integrates nicely with the Euro stuff. A much better idea would be to pair it with a Minibrute 2 and another 6U Rackbrute. With that, you get a keyboard for manual playing, two of their nice and gritty VCOs, another sequencer and arpeggiator, and 48 more patchpoints to link it with everything else. Now that would be a cool rig...AND you could fold each build up and haul 'em around like briefcases.
It's certainly an interesting concept you have there. "Writing" that line as a modulator is the main benefit in this demo I guess :-) In your demo I see only two voices right? So how many voices would be maximum possible? Is ratcheting possible? Is there a step editor for the (fine) adjustments? How many steps are maximum possible? Can each voice have their own step-length? Is backwards possible and random and ping-pong, etcetera (on a per voice basis)?
It's difficult to have an opinion on something where I still have so many questions ;-) What you could do for example is to download all the manuals of the main/major sequencers, like Erica Synths Black Sequencer and Erica Synths Drum Sequencer, Five12 Vector & Jack Expander, endorphin.es Ground Control, Frap Tools USTA, IME Stillson Hammer, Intellijel Metropolix, Make Noise René 2, Malekko Heavy Industry Varigate 8+, Squarp Hermod, Winter Modular Eloquencer, WMD Metron + extension modules and XOR-Electronics Nerdseq, just to name a few famous and most used sequencers; but there are many more.
For a list of medium and large sequencers please check out this website:
So you can compare the specifications of your sequencer against those already launched on the market. Perhaps a few functionalities you might not have covered yet? Once you covered all the functionality of those main sequencers, then your sequencer becomes extremely interesting :-) But is that feasible, I am not sure? I have thought myself of perhaps in the future building a sequencer as well however to cover all the functionality, hence to beat the competitors on all levels, might be close to impossible since there are several different types of sequencers that might be not easy to let them co-exist. For details see that above mentioned website that really provides a lot of information on sequencers.
For my own modular synthesizer I would prefer a module on its own (extension modules are totally acceptable), without the need of another controller, computer, tablet, smartphone or iPad, but that might be just me. But if it comes with a small module in Eurorack and an external controller (like your solution), then I would prefer a wired solution (not wireless like WiFi) for stability as well as for less interference in my studio setup.
Please keep us updated on how your project goes and perhaps you can share a website with us where we can find the details? Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.
Edit: removed typo and added one other little requirement ;-)
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I usually work from the bottom to the top of the rack.
Bottom row: Sequencers, clocks, mutes, main mixer... anything that's going to need a lot of hands-on manipulation.
Row 2: envelopes, LFOs, oscillators
Row 3: VCAs, filters, effects
Your rack is tall and narrow, so adjust accordingly.
Well, I'm not Lugia, but here's how I would probably set this up to start with. Of course I would tweak it as necessary after experimenting.
I tried to keep the plumbing along the sides and separate the 2hp stuff a little bit for wiggle room. I would probably want all of my clocks/gate sequencers along the bottom with mults above so you could mult gates around the system. Modulation and matrix mixer just above the sequencers. Links at the top left for a buffered mult/adder near your oscillators. Sound sources, filters, drums, FX, and maybe VCAs all grouped together with other mixers and attenuators sprinkled throughout. It's always hard for me to find the right spot for Disting, so the top right of the case seems to work here.
This seems more organized for the way I work, and the way my own rack is set up but obviously this may not be a sensible approach for your workflow. Either way, it was a fun exercise.
*edit: I placed Marbles above the other sequencers due to the jack placements.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Hmmm... I duplicated your rack to have some fun tweaking later today or tomorrow. The number of 2hp/small modules creates an interesting puzzle to solve.
I'm Mudi from BinaryNights. I have been working on a eurorack module and an iOS app that would really fit my sequencer needs.
I have a crude prototype and a very basic working app which you can see here:
The module and the app is connected by WIFI and changes to the sequence are transmitted realtime.
I think it has endless possibilities. Would you use something like this? Please share your thoughts.
Thank you again, Lugia! I have ordered the Quadrax, Zadar, and the Ladik modules. I am excited for all the modulation and envelope possibilities now. I appreciate you putting some time into helping me. That Timiszoara looks incredible, can't wait for them to release it. This is the current state of the rack, with everything either in it or on order laid out.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
These are all the modules I have, 3 of which are freshly ordered DIY kits; Drive, Prok BD & Moon-Phase.
Could I organise my modules better?
Is there anything to excess, maybe something you'd ditch?
Missing something (other than Talent) Another VCA (a different Stereo VCA might be on the cards as the ST Modular seems to be over-driven from the word Go and distorts a simple sine wave)?
Plans are to split off the percussion row into a separate case, probably with one of the uZeus for power. Then I'll finish the KonstantLab Power upgrade for the main case and sell the spare uZeus.
Gone are the days when I thought 2 rows for 84hp would be all I'd ever want! Things are getting interesting now with a 'potential' 5 rows of 84hp
Cheers :)
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Thank you all for the very kind responses. It's much appreciated. I've said this before in other threads, but modular has really prompted me to do so much more recording than I have done in decades. It's the combination of pushing me to different types of music than I have ever made before (like ambient) with less formal "song" structures, and the fact that there's no "save" button. What a fantastic hobby!
I did do a new cicada recording the other day - this time with some great thunder claps accompanying them from a storm that passed by. Now I just have to re-arrange my racks then see if I can put something together for that.
I posted that rack, in order to learn the flaws (other than it's already pricey lol),
and find out what's missing. What else I might need or what I should replace..
For example, you said there's no seq on the rack, so you excluded the clocking modules.
Well, what about my external gear? Can't they work with that A160/161 combination?
I was hoping those random and logic devices would work with that too.
PS. Maths can't be the only answer to every task. What about physics or chemistry?
Just kidding, of course... Thanks again.
Now THIS is a serious rig. True, it's still got some space limitations, but I think I've managed to show here where this COULD go with the Subharmonicon removal and a few additional pokes at the original module complement.
-- Lugia
That’s cool, thanks. I already made some changes that are similar to what you suggest. I will definitely consider some of these modules as soon as I have enough cash to substitute the Subharmonicon for them. A good noise source is on my list, but since I can’t find room at the moment, I will make do with the noise source of the Minibrute. The trap 321 looks super cool I ditched all of the line level outs, figuring I can just turn down the volume of my VCAs and feed them to my audio interface. I had considered the Pittsburgh BBD, but it has a much shorter maximum delay time than the Erica Synths Black or Xaoc. There is an Erica Synths Pico BBD, also with a short delay, if I wanted to go that way.
Anyway, I plan to eventually swap the Minibrute 2s for another case (either a second rackbrute or intellijel palette), probably in summer… at that point, I should have room for a bunch of the modules you mention…
Anyone used Arcaico Warhorse? Never heard of Arcaico before, someone on Modwiggler turned me onto them. Took a gander at their website, their modules look pretty badass. Warhorse is sold out at the moment, but I bookmarked their site.
Still waiting on my Phase Rotator. Disappointed to hear it's expensive for what it does, but then, looking through Xaoc's modules, I suspect they're all a little bit like that. Not dinging Xaoc, they're just one of those brands that tends to be on the pricey side. I got a good enough deal that if it doesn't take, it should be relatively easy to pawn off without much of a loss, if any. I still don't know quite why I grabbed it -- I don't even typically like phaser effects all that much -- but, I dunno ... the demo made it seem cool and at the time I felt like I'd find a good use for it.
In the non-filter arena I did get my Instruo Lubadh and NLC Multi-Band Distortion. The Lubdah I've barely touched yet, it's going to take a bit for me to sit down and deep dive on it. The NLC is already back up on Reverb ... it's just not what I assumed it would be (a distortion unit). That's what I get for impulse buying. It's actually pretty cool for what it is, certainly not exactly like anything else I've owned ... basically a ring modulator meets a quad VCA meets an EQ/band separator, with some noise/feedback generation and saturation built in. I don't mind having an extra ringmod, and while the EQ control isn't as specific or robust as I'd hoped, it could be a very useful module for things like controlling problem frequencies, saturating and adding color/sizzle, as a random noise source, and being able to CV trigger the gain of each band region independently is sort of cool, too, allowing you to create rhythms "within" a signal, if that makes sense. It also has both summed audio out and individual audio outs per band region, so ... while I'm relisting it (bc it eats up a chunk of space and wasn't what I was actually after when I bought it) I've come to find it useful enough that if it doesn't sell, I'm happy enough to keep it. I suspect there are some potential ways to use it that I haven't thought of yet that could make it uniquely valuable. I guess we'll see.
I do a bit of module-sleuthing from time to time, and when I add DIY modules, I tend to put the "worst case" price in...because while people HATE surprises like modules they thought were one price but they ACTUALLY come in at something higher, they do like it when things come in LOWER. It's sort of like "free money", psychologically. So if there's just a board and panel, I'll drop that price in, but I try to also note in the description that the price is for "PCB and panel only". However, getting users to all do the same sort of thing on that is like herding cats, so I just do what I do and hope it filters down somewhere.
Did a fill-out of this, minus the Subby. Now THIS is a decent 6U rig...
OK, what happened here? Some of the larger modules were downsized in order to get more functionality into the rig. However, if you take a close look, pretty much all of the original functions are there, along with a few tweaks.
TOP: There's a 1 hp spacer between the P/S and the MIDI interface. This is to get a tad more distance between the P/S and the rest of the top row, but moreso to provide a little bit more airflow to keep the P/S temp down a little. After that is the Tubbutech MIDI interface, then a Doepfer noise/sample and hold. The Rample follows that, then there's four VCAs and a Doepfer Mini Stereo Mixer. This is set up like this so that you can have basic VCA level control over the Rampler channels, then you can do your final level tweaks and panning (yep...I set it up for stereo output!) on the mixer before the audio hits the stereo VCF. And in this case, I opted for a very cool Patching Panda one that has several filter topologies...and, of course, a stereo thruput. Then this signal path ends at the Morphagene...but after that is one of Purrtronics' spring emulators, the Purrvrrb. This has a mono input and stereo outs, and we'll see why that's important in a bit...
BOTTOM: A Ladik dual line input (with metering and individual level controls) feeds a pair of Erica envelope followers. This way, you can not only inject a stereo signal into the modular, but you can also use the signal thru the EFs to provide modulation extracted from the incoming amplitude curves. LFOs are dealt with with a 4ms QPLFO, which is a quad LFO that has cycle times that range from the low end of audio down to 71 minutes...plus, you can 'ping' these with a trigger to reset the cycle AND to define new LFO times. After that is a fave modulation scrambler, Frap's 321, which I paired with an After Later dual VCA, which is a clone of 1/2 of a Veils so that you can amplitude-control your modulation signals. Then there's the Quadrax and the Qx expander. Remember that bit about the 'pings' for the QPLFO? The Qx sends end-of-rise and end-of-fall triggers based on the Quadrax's activity, and those triggers can be fed to the "ping" input on the QPLFO for LFO cycle resets or new timing values. But you can also turn the Qx on itself and this makes the Quadrax function in "cascade" fashion. For example, let's say you want a new envelope to start when another peaks...all you'd do is to send the EOR from one section to the next EG trigger. Send an EOR from that back to the first EG, and then you've got the two of them pinging off of each other. Quite nuts, really...and VERY useful.
Your mono effects are next. I swapped out the Erica bucket-brigade for a smaller Pittsburgh one, then the Frequency Shifter is after that. And then we're into the final mix/output, where I put in a Tesseract TexMix setup with four mono ins (sort of...vide infra) that all have VCA control, but you get panning, dual AUX sends, and a CUE switch available on all of those so that you can flip an input to CUE to check tuning or other on-the-fly stuff. And the MASTER section of this gives you your main fader, plus two stereo AUX returns. Now, remember what I mentioned about that Purrtronics reverb? The TexMix is set up to deal with that quite nicely, with two mono AUX sends and a pair of stereo AUX returns...BUT...you can also use a stereo AUX return to inject another stereo synth-level signal for a final total of 6 ins. The MASTER also has your headphone amp. Then at the end, there's a quad level shifter from synth to line level, as requested.
Now THIS is a serious rig. True, it's still got some space limitations, but I think I've managed to show here where this COULD go with the Subharmonicon removal and a few additional pokes at the original module complement.
I'm going to mention (because they haven't been already) the one filter I started with (Bastl Ikarie, dual stereo), and the one I just ordered (WMD C4rbn, multimode mono with wavefolding).
Oh wow! Those are fantastic effects with a serious beautiful sound to it, each of those effects. I had a look here in Germany what that module costs... it's a fortune here at almost 900 bucks, 900 Euro-bucks... :-(
Time to win the lottery and get one! ;-) Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
@GarfieldModular, both the bass and the lead here come from the Akemie's Castle. The lead is going through the VCF303 and the bass is going through the Takaab LPG. Speaking for myself, I find the AC one of the most enjoyable modules out there. It's easy to get crazy stuff out of it, and it's not tooooo hard to get really great beautiful sounds out of it either, and when you think about it as 4 different oscillators, or 2 complex oscillators, with a chord mode!, that 38HP feels quite worth it.
Well, you have officially become my second favorite acid artist (behind Richie Hawtin, of course). Well done, my friend.
And yeah, the 2LPG v2 finds its way into every patch I make. Ridiculous value.
Cmb_: Ha, ha, that's a good one! :-) So the "you can never have enough effects" is the new slogan then ;-)
Sacguy71: He, he, fair enough (regarding a video), it's just that I am still busy with fine tuning my new studio setup, struggling at the moment with absorbers and diffusers to fine tune the sound in my studio. Since it's in the basement it isn't that easy, the ceiling is, I am afraid, too low and I might need to do something about the ceiling. Another thing bothering me is the bass sound, I set the bass config on the monitors already to the lowest value (the monitors are standing very close to the wall, no choice because there isn't enough space) and I still feel it sounds too heavy or am I being over-sensitive here? Well, I have to admit that those low frequencies sounds (those below, let's say 60 Hz) from the here above Doepfer Meets Dixie jam sounded pretty cool on my monitors (till 35 Hz), better than on my HiFi speakers (till about 50 Hz).
Once I am totally happy with my studio setup (will that ever by the case? ;-) ) and get used to what is exactly where, then I might slowly think about how to position a few cameras to see if it makes sense to start YouTube films but till then, I think this will take a long time if I am going to do videos at all, still not sure about that.
By the way, glad to hear from you again, long time didn't see any posts from you. Having said that, I also didn't see for some time any stuff coming from you, Cmb_ :-)
So I hope, you both will release soon some cool jams, can't wait to listen at them and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Thanks for the hint, I didn't know Juno yet. I need to check regarding Brexit what the import taxes and consequences are, it looks like Juno's website already indicates that so it seems pretty transparent to me, which is great. Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Still messing around with Akemie and the VCF303, this is an excerpt from a jam that I think turned out pretty well, hope you enjoy!
Made with:
Notice I swapped out the Links and the Rnd Step for a Scales letting me generate better bass lines using the Turing Machine. And worth noting (again) : the Takaab 2LPG V2 is pretty incredible 🕺
I would probably arrange it like this, if it were mine. That's sort of how I have my rack anyway.
Sequencing and mixing at the bottom, modulation and FX just above that, then filters and voices on top. I got rid of the 2hp ADSR to fit all of your filters in. You'll just have to experiment with placement to figure out what works best for you.
Have fun and good luck.
I really love my Rossum Morpheus filter a lot! Also the IME Harvestman Bionic Lester MK2 and Erica Synths Dual VCF are superb filters. The Richter Dual Borg filter kicks modular butt as well. I am a sucker for cool filters! Saving up for the Intellijel Morgasmatron and other filters.
Lugia thank you for your time and effort, putting all this together.
I've read some useful threads in this forum, and you're constantly helping people by sharing your knowledge.
I'm not interested in modulating my bass really, but I guess if I was a guitarist I would be delighted. A nice amp and good pickups is all I ever needed...
I can understand that this rack option is way better than mine, but unfortunately it is twice the price of what I can afford/willing to spend at the moment.
I also think that I would be more comfortable with the simpler Doepfer modules, that can do that one thing and speak my language. It's what I'm used to, after all.
Not offended at all, I agree with you. I contacted the admins to ask about the "best pratice", they also suggested to include the price in the description (although I prefer not to, in this case) and told me "the price (field) should reflect what is needed to build the whole module". So, yeah, I guess we all kinda agree here, given I don't have kits available (at least, not at the moment), I preferred to just clear the field. Thanks for the feedback!
agreed, estimating the costs for parts is not trivial. Yes, one approach would be to remove the price from the overview (as you already have done), but include it in the description.
I actually hoped that any of the Modulargrid admins would see this post in order to start a discussion about how to deal with the topic of DYI module pricing, since it's an unsolved issue as far as I know. On the other hand, I might be one of the very few who has a problem with imprecise quotation of prices. So please, accept my apologies if I offended you with my quite harsh words!
