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i take it you mean the bottom row?

to me the quantizer and clock seem overkill when eloquencer will do both these

replace with mixers and quad cascading vcas (veils for example)

i would definitely keep the quad vca - but i'd swap to veils

yes it's a vca matrix mixer - similar to 4ms vcam but a lot smaller and without attenuaton or mutes, but you do get 4 inputs/4 outputs and 16 vcas to mix them together with - feed envelopes, lfos etc into these

delays, reverbs and lo-fi tape effects are often what I go to for when I try to make ambient ish music

exact modules are down to individual taste but I like Magneto, disting and fx aid xl for a lot of these effects as well as moogerfoogers etc

plus a lot of modulation - run through a lot of utilities

EDITED Jun 7th 2021, 10:09

I'd agree with this

If you only ever played a piano and try to pick up the guitar or trombone or whatever, there is a learning curve - and productivity will take a nose dive until at least a certain level of skill has been attained

the same with modular - it's like just like learning a new instrument - except this one is often constantly evolving

I doubt there's that many people with them - it's doesn't appear to be in the top 100 sequencers by popularity on here

I think it's more important that the sequencer fits in your workflow and that you enjoy using it than what a few videos show

only you can really decide if it's a keeper

zadar is great, but watch out about the enocders - especially if you are buying used and are the type of synth user that constantly wiggles - I'm not so much and I just bought a new one - so fingers crossed

fx aid xl is a great and versatile fx unit in 6 hp

I would probably want something like this https://www.modulargrid.net/e/rebel-technology-mix-04

which basically gives you

and after that there will be the search for the next case - hint go bigger, much bigger

hhahahaha maybe

there are no 'right' directions, there are just directions

it really only depends on you and how you patch

cool - I hope you enjoy it and that it lives up to your expectations!

the spdif output will give you 2 channels - so gate and cv for instance

if you are using a mac you could try using one of the usb (or usb-c) modules from expert sleepers (the es8 or 9) as a aggregate device with the other audio interface

I'm not sure that works well on windows though

probably something similar to what you have

general cv? maybe it's more paraphonic though - but it does have rompled strings! hehe

rings can do '4 voices' at once but it's more based on resonance than 'polyphony' as such because it will only trigger one note at a time, so it's more like a (4) stringed instrument than a true polyphonic instrument

looks to me as though "make synths, not war" is gone - last blog entry is nov 2018 and I suspect that they never had dealers - have you tried the contact form?

I have the fx aid xl which is 6hp and I really like it - more space and more modulation inputs

one big plus point about it is that Igor seems to constantly post updates

there's also similar modules from erica, endorhin.es and tiptop but I don't think they have quite the versatility

personally I would keep Maths - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through it, it is a great primer for patching modular synthesizers in general

I would take disting from the lower case and take everything out of the 3u row of the other case except maths and fx aid xl, then add a quad cascading vca - such as veils and a full size plaits - which would leave 12hp - branches will fit in as you already have it - pick up a kinks whilst you can - there is stock in some shops but they are discontinued and great value for money! - leave the last 2 hp free until you work out what you actually need

you can use your audio interface, the appropriate cables, probably some amplification* and possibly attenuation or an output module - I can't remember if those focusrite interfaces have balanced inputs or not - but if they do or your power is unbalanced - then a balanced output module is probably a good idea

*for amplification you could use an input module - or if you are not going to use it constantly something like MI Veils is a good buy as it has a lot of gain available, is 4 channels and is a cascading vca so can be used as a mixer - intellijel quad also does this - not many vcas do!

not sure about midi as I don't really use it that much in that way - sometimes I use cv to midi cc for controlling a video synth, but not often

but if you want midi i/o from the modular then befaco make both in and output 4 channel midi modules and are usually pretty good

do you already have an audio interface?
if so which one?

do you already have midi i/o from computer?

a single case will be much more useful than splitting them up and probably work out cheaper in the long run

buy one that has space free after all the modules you want now - allow 10mA per rail for power for these and allow 25-30% headroom (to allow for inrush)

it will also allow you to replace the 2hp vcas with a quad cascading one, such as veils - which are incredibly useful and give you 4 channels + mixing for about the same amount of cash - plus better ergonomics - same with the micro clone - full size modules are much nicer!!!

My proposal has 9 jacks, 5 pots, and a switch, in 10HP. Only one pot (the crossfader) is regularly adjusted during performance. The layout should give the crossfader a generous amount of room, free of jack connections.

This proposed panel seems generous compared to many existing modules. For example the WMD ALYS has 14 jacks, 2 pots, and a switch in 6HP. What I am proposing is actually more roomy. It will be easier to use for reasons of space and because it doesn't include unnecessary features. The whole point of this thread is that I don't wish to use the three cramped modules mentioned in the OP.

Larger mixers all have features that are inapplicable to the application I have described. That is because they are not designed for cross-fading two (and only two) stereo streams. Hence they waste space. (For other applications they might be fine.)

-- robin0112358

that's how a lot of modular companies get started - someone wants a module and it doesn't exist

all modular synths are compromises, to some extent, I would concentrate on getting something that ticks all the boxes that you need (either in a single module or a few modules) and not worry too much that there's an extra feature that so far you haven't got a need for - next week you might!

keeping with mi shades will do this

plaits has 2 rings like modes

plonk and pluck possibly

panning is quite easy to patch with vcas - mult the signal you want to pan to 2 vcas - nult the modulation source you want to use for for panning and send one copy to one of the vcas and invert and offset the other and send it to the other vca

it does indeed...

it's also half the size

but is it half as enjoyable to play with?

Ok, thanks at all. What is BOM. Jim have u some links to share or a module name to search here? Thanks

edit: ok BOM intend the bill of materials... ok, i was actually referring to full diy kits for the elements. I miss the desire to make the shopping list.

ah good you worked out BOM yourself!

personally I've got a full size elements on my DIY backlog - it's number 11 of 12 in order - making the shopping list is a lot easier than it appears to be and a useful skill to have in synth diy - it can reduce costs considerably in the long run - buy larger quantitites of common components etc

https://pushermanproductions.com/product/full-kit-antumbra-atom-v1-2/

but maybe available elsewhere

what sort of music do you intend to make?

do you already have the 19" rack?
do you have more than 9u free? whilst you may see this dream rack as 'end game' there's a very good chance it won't be - and you are not planning in room for possible expansion

you don't need 3 uZeus rack warts - just 2 and 1 of the boost power supplies - also saves 4hp
personally I would try to go with a power supply that will power all three rows from a single power supply - there are plenty to choose from - and if possible avoid the rack warts all together - may involve drilling holes in the 19" - I'd drill the holes and use a couple of befaco excalibuses to power this rack myself - this would save 12 hp!

'reasonably' well balanced - things I would try to do though:

get a midi interface with more channels - befaco do a reasonbaly, priced one that has 8 outs in 6hp iic

swap both the intellijel quad vca and veils for new veils - which will save 4hp - remember these are mixers too and that they can be used for cv as well as audio and as input modules - they have +20dB of gain - so you can probably drop the input module

you have quite a few 2hp modules - which can be great, but, they appear to be in places where they might be awkward to use and make using other modules difficult - getting a couple in the first row is probably a good idea - so you can determine if you actually like them before getting more

rene is quite a big module in this size case imo - but it may be the feature module that you want, idk

I'm not sure that you need to have 4 modulation sources - I would rather have fewer and have interesting ways of multing/modifying/mixing them rather than a lot of different ones - I'd grab a kinks (immediately whilst they may still be available) and a matrix mixer, possibly 2 - probably in place of stages and contour 1 - although I do really like stages - so I would probably try to keep this - maths I would definitely keep - download the illustrated supplement and work your way through it a few times - it's a great modular learning resource

I would seriously think out your mixing - it doesn't make a lot of sense to me - especially the 'end of chain' audio mixing xpan and the addac? you could probably find a better solution for that in a single module

I'd also consider replacing the dual fx with a fx aid xl - smaller and more versatile!

link to actual rack!!!

I don't know about the size etc - that's something that you'd have to work out for yourself - do you like trimmers instead of pots and poor ergonomics?

DIY is definitely possible - but I wouldn't recommend it as a first smd or even first mutable DIY

I would take a look at amazing synth and work out a path to building one and remember you'll also need a discovery board or similar to program it

However, I see that there are some pcba versions (smd pre-soldered) available - I would go for one of these - should be not much more difficult than the prok drum modules you have built already - it's probably just panel furniture and headers that need to be soldered and then calibration

removing the atlantis, if you don't use it much, seems like a good idea

I would personally go with either batumi or pam's in this size rig, not both, and add more utilities for mixing/modifying/multing modulations sources to create more interesting ones - kinks is great, if you can find one - discontinued recently, but there should be a few still in stores

re utilities in general doepfer and ladik are your best friends - just make sure the depth is ok in the case

I'd also consider an fx aid xl - lots of different algos for effects and decent number of modulation inputs

or thonk - but they are diy only and are currently out of stock - but they do notifications!

depends on how much you want to spend - custom cases can get very pricey very quickly

have you considered diy? it's a lot easier than you might think!! 4 out of 6 of my racks are DIY - all 9u either 84 or 104hp and come in at about €100 + power

what exactly are you after? - size wise and materials wise - do you want portability?

starter plan is decent - I'd swap links for kinks if I were you though - as kinks has been discontinued - there's a last batch by the look of it - so grab it now

for mults either get some stackcables or some headphone splitters

I would go bigger - either 104hp/6u or 84hp/9u - ie a mantis when they are available again - or a doepfer lc9 - these are the best value/known cases - with decent power supplies etc

always try to leave some room free for expansion!!

another thing to consider is that a 'modular effects rack' is effectively a full blown modular synthesizer, with the sound sources replaced by external ones - which generally means you need an input module of some kind to import the sound sources

this means that modulation and utilities are just as important in an effects rack as in a regular synth - don't skimp on the most important stuff (modulation and utilities)

If I don’t find any buyer I maybe go for one of my earlier ideas; getting a small skiff where I can put them.

-- Rookie

cough cough - leave room for expansion - if/when you buy another case, buy one that will house all the modules yuo have as spill over and then some - I'd go at least double the size you think you need - otherwise the need for the next case will arrive sooner than expected!!!

sooner or later you will almost definitely need more room - there will be somehtiing you want to do can't patch it with what you have and then find the module you need only to find it's 20+hp and you don't want to sacrifice anything = new case time always try to buy bigger than you think you need - same goes for vcas and mixer channels as far as I am concerned!

I think you have a lot of modulation in this case already - I'd go for something else - possibly fx aid - but I'd want to see if I could free an extra 2hp for the xl version - ergonomics and more modulation points are really useful

don't drown in debt - go as fast or slow as your budget allows!
and a mantis is still quite portable, for example, unless you are a small child!

EDITED May 25th 2021, 21:01

cheap and custom do not usually go well together in the same sentence

you can usually have one or the other but not both

you could swap out the og veils for the reissue and get 2 hp back - and then upgrade the fx aid to an fx aid xl

other thing I would do - start saving for the next case!

I'd spend the money on a bigger case!!!
PNW is great
if you can find a kinks buy one they have been discontinued

some advice you can take or leave - ditch the beauty case

work out the modules you want and those that are actually needed to support them (probably at least as much space again) and then add 30-50% for expansion and then find the case - allowing at least 25% headroom on all power rails - I allow 10mA/hp/rail for unfilled space

this way you will have a modular that will accomplish your goal and you may not get the urge to buy another case in 2 months when you outgrow the beauty case

you do not have to fill the whole case at once (you may want some blind panels so you don't short anything though)

I started with a 6u/72hp case - it lasted 6 months before, with only 12hp left I decided I wanted Maths and bought a mantis as well - 4 years or so later and I have 1500hp...

looks kind of like a beauty case I could make up from my rack!!! - I have 11 of the 17 modules in the future rack!

in such a small rack I would probably drop at least one of the modulation sources - although peaks is pretty handy!

not sure I'd need both shades and the doepfer offset/atten in such a small case

hhehehe good luck

triple sloths and a blank 2hp panel
a 10hp matrix mixer

if it's the version with the TPS80W MAX power supply then it will be fine - 3A on +ve and -ve rails

it's still a small case so maybe fitting everything in the one case is a bad idea

I often suggest to stop worrying about the case until after deciding what modules you want, what modules you need to support the ones you want and adding 30% for expansion - and then looking for a case (or cases) that can accommodate them

you don't need to get rid of sound sources - you just need to make space for much modulation and utilities - it may be by removing the drum modules - it may be by adding another row (or 2)

NB I was suggesting using the switched multiple as a trigger combiner - a la Steevio and MylarMelodies

it really depends how you use the disting/fx aid xl etc - if you set them on a specific algorithm and leave it at that then they are effectively 1 knob per function - if you need something else you can take a quick look at the manual and get it working in a few minutes

i've had a disting mk4 for 4 years or so and it's almost always been used in the tape delay setting and my fx aid xl has been a stereo lofi junky since I got it (6 months ago)

Here are some of my concerns:
- I feel like I have almost too many sounds sources but not enough things to do with them

yes way too many - so not enough support modules

• A lot of gate/clock sources but no real clever way to turn them into unique patterns

trigger/gate combiner/switched multiple

• The two Tiarans are great but I might need something more sophisticated for sequencing CV (not pitch but rather CV for modulation)

not that I sequence modulation - but if I were to I'd be tempted to either go with stages or a step fader

• I would like some more crazy FX modules (I love the Deflector shield) (but rather no multi-fx stuff like Disting/FxAid)

both disting and fx aid (I have the xl) are excellent modules - what sort of effects are you interested in? delay/reverb? I like magneto too - but you'll need a bigger case!

EDITED May 24th 2021, 00:46

you have way too many sound sources in this size case - you do not have the modules that you need to support half the sound sources you have

is the case a intellijel 7u? if so why the uZeus? will the uZeus even with the big power supply be enough for the modules if not (remember to leave at least 25% headroom)

some of the modules do have built in vcas - but that does't mean that you won't want more - vcas are also useful for controlling modulation - you may also find that you need some envelope generators to open the vcas - usually sequencers output gates - which are just on off square waves

I would try to start of with a single voice - sound source, sound modifier, modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen and build from there - you will quickly find there are things you are missing that are near essential - something like a disting is a good idea to buy early on as it has a lot of functionality and will help you understand what different types of modules do

anything that's upside down is either in the DIY backlog, on order or pre-order (chromagnon), out for repair or 'wish list'

it's currently 6 cases 29u/104hp, 29u/84hp, a mantis (6u/104hp) and a 6u/72hp - those are the top 6 rows and the bottom 2 rows and I've just got the rails and brackets for a couple of 6u 19" cabs I'm getting out of storage soon - which make up the 7th and 8th rows and the last row is just 'blind panel storage'

the arrangement of modules is for the future (I'm moving) - not on how they actually are at the moment - which is a bit less structured and a lot more spread out - the top 3 rows will be mounted on the wall with the next 3 rows at a slight angle on top of the 19" rack cases - and the last 2 cases will probably live on a desk to the side , whereas at the moment the 2 of the cases area on guitar stands and the other 4 are on the floor in front of the TV (which will also be wall mounted in the new house)

EDITED May 21st 2021, 23:03

definitely can't complain about £35 for a dual vca
I rarely buy anything other than DIY or Doepfer these days! At least in terms off audio modules -