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@cmb_ , @GarfieldModular - thanks for your feedback :)

Actually I tried and updated the suggestion: Beads leaves an extra 2Hp for Shakmat Sum-Dif which would also help greatly!
Just click on the link to see the updated rework. Don‘t know how to Update the thing here..

Also maybe rethink the Complex VCO, you already have two Ringmods (wogglebug and Serge) and two waveshapers in there Maybe go for two simpler oscillators (Buchla 258 Clone?) or the Serge New Timbral oscillator plus another one?
But that‘s maybe taking it too far from the Original Idea.

Cheers.
-- Cangore

I just clicked on the link. Thanks for the input! That's given me something to think about! I haven't come across that Buchla clone before. Hi Ho, it's off to YouTube I go. :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Nifty case isn't rackmountable, nor is it 3U. Or is there another version?

I like your module choices, especially the LxD and RND, thanks! I think you're right, I should be aiming for fewer, but larger, modules.
-- asleepwheel

Hi, sorry, I didn't pick up that you wanted it rack-mountable. My bad :). Yep, I love the LxD - it sounds nice to my ears and has two different flavours in 4hp. The RND is very useful too, for such a tiny module.

Hi,

Modular meet saturday september 11th.

https://m.facebook.com/events/369138091466615

Cheers

EDITED Sep 9th 2021, 14:16

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Nifty case isn't rackmountable, nor is it 3U. Or is there another version?

I like your module choices, especially the LxD and RND, thanks! I think you're right, I should be aiming for fewer, but larger, modules.

Thank you!

Actually I tried and updated the suggestion: Beads leaves an extra 2Hp for Shakmat Sum-Dif which would also help greatly!
Just click on the link to see the updated rework. Don‘t know how to Update the thing here..

Also maybe rethink the Complex VCO, you already have two Ringmods (wogglebug and Serge) and two waveshapers in there Maybe go for two simpler oscillators (Buchla 258 Clone?) or the Serge New Timbral oscillator plus another one?
But that‘s maybe taking it too far from the Original Idea.

Cheers.

EDITED Sep 9th 2021, 14:00

Mimeophon would still fit with those two, not exatcly a small delay thing, maybe Chronoblob or even Beads (which I think you talked about wanting before) would too.

Just wanted to check. Maybe some reorganization would be needed.

All the Best,
Chris

EDITED Sep 9th 2021, 13:42

Hey Cangore,
Thanks so much for the advice. I think you are right. I guess the Maths I have fulfils some of those functions, which I won't get with the Random Source DUSG. Interesting. I've not heard of the SSF Toolbox. That looks ultra useful. Perhaps that and Shades might work. I take your point about Magneto, although as I said, part of my plan is to avoid smaller modules - especially if I plan to tweak them. I'm still not 100% on the Verbos Complex Oscillator. I can't really decide on that or the DPO or the Furtherrr Generator (or whatever it's called) without hearing them in person...

Thanks too, for what you say about my videos. I'm never sure whether the world needs more amateur videos about Eurorack, but it's nice to know that you enjoyed them. I haven't made one for a while (partly because of things going on) and also just laziness and my focus being aimed elsewhere at the moment. I do plan to make some more though - I have my Nifty Case patched up with a patch I like that I'm waiting to film...

A rackmount case that doesn't require 4hp for power sounds interesting, do you have a link?

I have indeed studied the small racks suggested by Lugia. His feedback posts are a wonderful resource here and I discovered several of the modules in my proposed rack from his suggestions. I suspect I will be doing some iterative experiments with this, for example my idea of using the input attenuators on the VCAs as a mixer is something I'll have to try out to see if it meets my needs.

-- asleepwheel

Hi, I have the Nifty Case. I quite like it. 84hp with power, two channels of midi to CV, plus a clock and the case itself is quite nicely built. As everyone says, though, you will probably very soon wish you'd bought a bigger case - although I do quite like having a small case personally. It fits on my desk nicely. But I filled it with some not quite so small modules. Here are my choices:

A rackmount case that doesn't require 4hp for power sounds interesting, do you have a link?

I have indeed studied the small racks suggested by Lugia. His feedback posts are a wonderful resource here and I discovered several of the modules in my proposed rack from his suggestions. I suspect I will be doing some iterative experiments with this, for example my idea of using the input attenuators on the VCAs as a mixer is something I'll have to try out to see if it meets my needs.

Hey ModLifeCrisis,
I‘ve been enjoying your Youtube Videos for quite a while now, I really like them. It‘s been quite obvious to me for a while now this is going to happen.
Must say I‘m all about it and this seems alot like „You“.
However I‘d miss some utilities in there, polarizers, rectifiers. Kinks, FrapTools 333, Shades, something along those lines. I think those would help alot with patch programmability. Maybe the ssf Toolbox might be a good fit?
Also Magneto seems a little big to me. Maybe you could shrink it into something else (same with xpan?) to make room.

All the Best and please continue your Video Series!
Chris

EDITED Sep 9th 2021, 11:34

To me, that all looks a bit cramped and (I'm not sure why) a bit ugly. I wouldn't enjoy playing with it. Could you get a rack that is powered? You could do without the power supply then and gain a few more hp? Just my two cents... best of luck with it all.

I'm planning a second rack. My guiding principles have been large modules, old school synthesis and a west coast bias. I'd like it so that I can experiment with patch programability, sonic exploration and happy accidents where I haven't a clue what's going on. I'd also like to think it could create some really pretty sounds too. I don't need it to be self contained in a band-in-a-box way, but I would like to feel that I won't be needing to reach for any other modules when I'm playing with it. It would be great to hear what people think of my selection so far... thanks :)

It is asking a lot to just be starting in modular AND to design a solid small build.

My best suggestion is to look up forum user Lugia (who is super good at rack design) and review several of his small to medium racks. Notice the balance of modules: approximate % of things that make sound, % of things that make control signal, % of other stuff that a modular needs to run. Notice the “must have” items which appear in most racks. As Jim said, there’s a base complement of utilities that are a must for most stand alone rigs. If you seriously study 5-10 of those racks it will answer a ton of your questions and put you in a better position to get a good initial plan.

That said, there’s maybe no substitute to getting in the game, making a few mistakes, and learning by trial and error what will suit you. That also argues for a bigger case; so you have room to experiment and grow. If you can afford it, two cases would be good. A tiny one to suit your small footprint goals, and a bigger one to give you some room to experiment. Or in software using VCVrack to try some of your ideas, that can help too.

Good luck!

why the constraint on size? masochism?

these maybe the modules you want but you do not have the modules you need to get the modules you want to play together nicely

you are trying to do too much in too small a space and you will probably have an unpleasant playing experience

there are at least 5 potential voices there - and no mixing - so it won't work as you expect anyway - in fact it just won't work

throw it away and strip back your requirements to the bare minimum and start again - preferably in a bigger case (Mantis is good and reasonably priced as is the lc9) so that you may actually enjoy playing your instrument

U made my train time to the office very enjoyable today.
Thanks for the inspiring music 🙂

Thanks - enjoyed these - quite delicious.

Quite gorgeous - thanks for sharing.

Fractio Solumn by Noise Engineering is maybe not my favorite but it makes all the other ones shine. It is a clock divider and multiplier that does mainly fractions, think three in gives four out or why not five in and seven outs. It becomes King Crimson playing batucada very quickly.

Precisely. The module outputs four sines, but each output is offset from the previous one by 90 degrees. So if you were to use each quadrature out to, say, control the Veils, what you would get is a continuous overlap of the different VCA outs, fading in and out of each quadrature-controlled VCA. This can also have some fun with the 321 and especially the Sirius' Veil, plus you might find a couple of these outputs amusing for modulating the FX Aid XL by using the 180-degree-opposed outs.

-- Lugia

Cool...thanks Lugia! Any thoughts on my filter dilemma? I had planned on Sirius' Veil but am wondering if I should opt for Neutron Flux (yes more $ but for my smaller setup maybe a lot more filter flexibility?)...had also looked at Moonphase from Patching Panda. Nothing against Void Modular but he doesn't currently have very good documentation on his modules...still toying around with Gravitational Waves...not that I don't love to tinker but a little guidance documentation would be nice :)

• Pros/Cons to this approach when compared to a daw?

Well, it sort of requires a DAW or some other VST host so that you can run the translation from the control skiff's CV/gate/trig outputs to what the outboard sampler wants to see. There are modules that could do this directly, but the ability to precisely calibrate and route the outgoing MIDI calls is something that really belongs in "the box".

• What main sequencer could I pair with the sampler? Would have to be complex enough to run a large amount of voices, and not be entirely loop based (continue to move to the next sections of the song), jump to certain sections?

There are several that could work here...have a look in the "Sequencer" section and see which of the more complex devices offer the feature set your music requires. Some suggestions: Five12's Vector, Winter Modular's Eloquencer, 1010's Toolbox, Orthagonal's ER-101/102 pair, Zetaohm's FLXS1, Squarp's Hermod, or Malekko's Voltage Block/Varigate 8+ pair. ACL's Sinfonion also works as something of a "sequencing harmonic quantizer", makes a great pairing with any of these.

• I’m sure the modulation sources would be helpful in making it feel alive - is there some way to play parts in non quantized? A “humanizer” function (could be done within the rack)?

Plenty of those...dig around in the "clock modifiers", "controllers" and/or "utility" sections. There are even stochastic "skip" modules that drop a pulse or two depending on what level of potential change you've dialed in.

• Is there a possibility for cv controlled sample switching (e.g. different velocities)? Crossfading between sample velocities?

-- ethanlawrence

There should be. In modular, you've got piles and piles of different modules that can be linked together to build just about anything needed. It's just a matter of rooting around on MG until the exact bits pop up. I should note, though, that what you're describing needs a sequencer that's also got storable patches...and yep, there's possibilities all over the place. But since we're really talking about a controller here, what I prefer might not be what works in your situation...that's why I'm keeping things kind of open-ended here.

Although...one other thing that might be of use with a rig of this sort would be Soundmachine's Arches controller. Since everything on that is user-definable, you basically can rewrite what it does on the fly, store values and setups, etc etc etc. That could easily be rigged to send suitable sysex messages to the sampler itself as well.

One other point: the outboard sampler itself is perfect for dealing with multisampled sets, but when you rig that up with a FD replacement that uses SD or thumb drive memory, you can store MASSIVE amounts of sample sets on those when compared with the typical onboard HD found on those. If you'd thought that those old rack samplers were over and done, you really NEED to see what results when you update with one of those FD replacements!

before I went down the path of just adding another VCO (Richter Wogglebug, MANGROVE, Loquelic Iteritas, Manis Iteritas, Cursus Iteritas were in the HP range I was considering) I did searches on primary=VCO secondary=LFO because I was wondering if I had LFO covered but then remembered I have Maths and Quadrax (I just today got notification that Perfect Circuit has QX Expander in and ordered immediately!!) so figured I had that realm pretty well covered. Is the Doepfer you recommend sort of a 'specialty' VCO/LFO module then?
-- jb61264

Precisely. The module outputs four sines, but each output is offset from the previous one by 90 degrees. So if you were to use each quadrature out to, say, control the Veils, what you would get is a continuous overlap of the different VCA outs, fading in and out of each quadrature-controlled VCA. This can also have some fun with the 321 and especially the Sirius' Veil, plus you might find a couple of these outputs amusing for modulating the FX Aid XL by using the 180-degree-opposed outs.

+1 on Ronin's solution here...plus, that extra 1 hp is perfect for a PWRchekr so you can keep an eye on your DC rails' health.

One other "odd number" solution that I like to include on builds: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/konstant-lab-pwr-checker-wh

1 hp...and I have to concur with KonstantLabs here - this IS the most useful 1 hp device ever, period, especially if your cab has no visible DC rail indicators.

Thanks, Garfield! As always, you're incredibly kind!

Yeah, my aim was to create a more non-subtractive modular groovebox-style synth and supplement it with a Sequential Prophet Rev2 for poly stuff. I found myself wanting some Moog-ish sounds somewhere along the way, and now those are my go-to modules. Really impressed by them.
The new update to the E352 added some great options to an already great wavetable module, and the Recombination Engine is fun and slightly unpredictable (I still haven't wrapped my head around the wave splicing without an oscilloscope). I mostly use the Panharmonium for rhythmic drum resynthesis and as a vocal effect.
*edit Check out the AJH Sonic XV filter for something that is not strictly Moog-ish (even though it was inspired by a Musonics/Moog design).

EDITED Sep 9th 2021, 00:19

@Farkas thanks for the reply and ideas above. A few comments:

-- interesting to hear you say AJH is among your favorites. I've avoided that so far, thinking "what do I need Moog clones for in my modular?" That they sound "perfect" would be a good reason! I do love Moog sounds but thought I had that well covered from other non-modular gear. Maybe its worth my considering a select AJH add in the future (an OSC or Filter might be a most logical first choice)

-- yes it's likely answers to this post will be "all over the place" as you mentioned. I can say the pics and especially combinations can be really fantastic: I've had some real "wow" moments such as modulating Mindphaser with Odessa, or feeding a wavefolded signal into Morgasmatron, overdriving it, and "striking" the filter. Continuing to find deep and interesting combinations is an ongoing effort and joy.

It's very interesting to hear your views above, thanks again!

Having a lot of interesting options is a fun part of this whole hobby. I think we are all building our own individual "dream voicing rig," so the answers you get here will probably be all over the place. In the search for my own perfect voicing I've tried a bit of everything. Had a Furthrrr Generator, still have the Recombination Engine, E352, and Panharmonium, tried a fair amount of the Mutable stuff, some of the Schlappi stuff, some Make Noise and Noise Engineering, etc.
The truth is my favorite sounding and playing modules are the AJH Synth stuff. They sound perfect to my ears. They are well-built. The envelopes, oscillators, filters, and VCAs react exactly as I expect. Just perfect. Traditional subtractive synthesis may seem a little "boring" or not taking advantage of all modular has to offer, but I'm extremely happy with my choice to add their stuff to my rack. In fact, I'm going to pick up a few more to expand my AJH stable (the 2412 filter, another VCO and Contour Generator, the Dual LFO/VCA, and the Wave Swarm for sure). Highly recommended for excellent high-quality subtractive voicing.
A module that I was pleasantly surprised by is Mutable Instruments Warps. I've struggled to connect with most of my MI modules (sold Plaits and Clouds is sitting in a box in a closet), but Warps with the Parasites firmware instantly clicked for me. I may just have weird taste, but I think it's pretty underrated for a multi-function waveshaper/ring mod/crossfader etc. etc. etc.

EDITED Sep 8th 2021, 23:53

Hi Cmb_,

Pity you can't make it for the Superbooth. Okay, if I don't forget (but I just wrote it down) and have time, I will checkout the Portal Drum module of Rabid Elephant, if that one is on display.

Will let you know once I am back from Superbooth. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Shanewave,

Nice to see you at work again in this video. Interesting track this is. I have the feeling you are taking us here on a sonic journey or rather sonic adventure and the listener is being fed with great sounds and interesting melodies! :-)

Just one little thing... could you do much more of music like this please? ;-)

Thank you very much for this piece of music-art and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Baltergeist,

Nice to hear from you again, straight away with two great tracks! :-) I love your experimental touch towards your music, it's always exciting to listen at your music and the creativity you are putting into your tracks is just fantastic :-D

Two different tracks, but both have much to love for. Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

A few add on comments:

-- since posting, I've been wondering if this is a ridiculous question, as in "you don't need that much in modular" or "thinking in terms of 'sound sources,' you're missing how modular works." All told, if it is useless or counterproductive to have a large voicing section (like above), I'd like to know that and why.

-- but on further consideration, I think it is an interesting question, to me at least. Why? Because it raises at least two potentially important points:
++ what's the best of modular (in the sound-generation domain)? How many modules would you need to get a significant % of that "best of"?
++ looking at other "power synths" like Waldorf Quantum (hardware) and VSTs like U-he Zebra, Omnisphere, KVR Synthmaster etc., what does it take for a modular setup to meet similar sound-design capabilities (at least in 1 voice)? Where does Modular SMASH other hardware / vst options?

-- all considered, I'm hoping to get a better understanding of "voicing" options so as I go forward with modular, I can keep going towards "what makes modular great and unique"

Thanks all!

@Ronin1973, I've thought about dedicated Euclidean modules and here's why I haven't added any yet:

-- Euclidean Circles v2 (ECv2) looks cool-ish to me, but then I think about its cost and pros/cons and I can't logically justify it vs. other options AND I'm not so emotionally into it that I'll just say "f*ck you brain" and buy it anyway
-- yes PNW does Euclidean AND a 2nd PNW (if needed) might be as good or better an option than dedicated Euclidean items due to price (a little less) and function (a lot more)
-- I don't have a full comprehension of Trigger Riot's possibilities yet, but my current understanding is that a lot of what I might want out of a Euclidean module, I could get that or pretty close to that out of TR
-- I do have other "generalist" sequencing (not shown in the rig above) such as Vector+Expansion so lanes from that could do Euclidean well if I wanted to use them, though it might be rather manual programming
-- basically it comes down to I haven't seen a dedicated or specialist Euclidean module that I saw and thought "I need that" or "I really want that"... I nearly did ad ECv2 but then a rare bit of musical sobriety kicked in and I thought "it can wait till later or never"

Am I missing something about how $#@! awesome some particular Euclidean module is?

And on a partially related topic, I've not looked for a ton of "off-metrical-grid" capability either (e.g. doing multiple unrelated time signatures, multiple unrelated subdivisions, random gates etc.) because to the best of my senses, the popular-ish genres I'm interested in cannot tolerate too many musical events off-grid or off-groove; they can tolerate a little of that but not a ton. This hits what @Gorilla was saying above about "not too much clock complexity."

Anyways, interesting question / suggestion @Ronin1973. If I'm missing the point on Euclidean, or random, or very complex rhythmic systems, I'd be pleased to be better informed on the topic.

EDITED Sep 8th 2021, 22:42

Wow, that's great! Can you say a bit more about how you're using Marbles? It isn't clear to me if it's generating a pattern for the pitches or rhythm or....?

The use of samples or digitally recorded audio in modular is more of an adjunct than a method for sample playback. You'd have less expense and more success using something like an Akai MPC Live MkII. It will allow for you to load libraries of sounds as well as interface with the modular synthesis world.

That looks like an awesome machine, but seems to be more beat oriented? Doesn’t look like it has the exact tools I’m looking for, although would probably be great for sequencing modular etc.

I'm considering getting into Eurorack and I've been experimenting with laying out a rack to see if I could put something together that would be worthwhile. I have the constraint that this rig must fit in 3U of a 19" rack, so I'm limited to the 84hp that will fit in a TipTop Happy Ending kit. I'd like to use it for dreamy ambient and shoegaze. I'd like the rig to include an analog oscillator and an analog filter. I'd like to both play from a midi controller and have a generative module. I'd like to be able to layer a couple of voices.

That's a tall order for only 84hp, but part of the fun for me is to try to build something usable that fits that tight constraint. I realize that there are a lot of tiny knobs in my future :-).

Here's what I have so far.

With my tight constraints, the FH2 for midi input is useful because it can do double duty, supplying envelopes and LFOs in addition to converting from midi. I expect to use midi CC for some modulation, so I'll be getting CV for those from the FH2. TS-L is appealing due to the variety of controllable parameters. The 2hp VCO will be useful for a second voice or for FM to the TS-L (or vice versa). Nanorings rounds out the tone generation section. The knobs on the 2hp VCA seem useful for helping balance the levels of the tone generators.

Ochd and uPeaks are there for modulation and Pachinko for sequencing. For effects, I have uBurst, Doupples, and Milky Way. The filter frequency knob is the one knob that must be a decent size in this rig. Disting EX is there as a wild card to fill in for anything I might need in a patch, for example logical utilities. Con is useful since it has input as well as output, so I could feed line level input to this rig for effects processing.

Any feedback would be appreciated. I understand this is generally considered too small a rig to be useful, but I'm willing to scale back my expectations in order to get something that fits in 84hp.

EDITED Sep 8th 2021, 22:52

yep, really nice.

Just out of curiosity, Liine's Lemur running on an iPad and driving something like a Expert Sleepers FH2... how is this superior?
-- Ronin1973

From a purely technical standpoint this is not limited to the bandwidth of the MIDI and can easily go audio rate and also does not have any limitation that MIDI may impose. This is more like CVTools in Ableton.
I want this to be just l like any other Eurorack sequencers on the market but with a superior interface which can grow to anything.
This is purpose built and designed for Eurorack.

Firstly, thanks to all of you for your input!
Seems like I'm going to go ahead as planned.

Secondly I did record my most recent patch with the Weasel, it's kind of an ambient thing - so not really a good example of what this thing was originally intended to do - but I guess it somewhat demonstrates what the Voice CAN do. Anyhow I enjoyed it somewhat, so I figured I might as well fire up Pro Tools, hope it's a good enough demonstration for now.

I can see the temptation of another filter here but I'd probably add more modulation or utilities, maybe a Turing Machine, Links or Kinks (even though those two are out of print I guess? what do we recommend now???) or barring that a different end of chain effect, maybe a Beads.
-- troux
well, I'm not really 'adding' another filter...just considering which one to get...planned on Sirius' Veil (which is the same builder as my VCO Gravitational Waves) but now wondering if Neutron Flux makes more sense for my small setup (more $ but 2HP smaller and I think a lot more flexibility). My question is what to fill the remaining 10HP (or 12HP if I go with Neutron Flux) with...thought another VCO since I have Warps and might be a good to have another to use with that and to just have another VCO. The Make Noise Wogglebug has some nice extra features besides being another VCO. Lugia brought up maybe adding Doepfer's A-143-9

Any dedicated Euclidean modules? I know PNW can do that. But if we're talking about a case full of trigger/gate equipment, I think I'd want some dedicated modules to free up PNW and to possibly chain a couple of those together to create some interesting patterns.

Replace the A-118 with an A-118-2. That will save you 4HP, leaving you with 9 HP.

Use that 8HP to put a Disting EX (8HP) in the case and call it good. The EX is a lot more powerful than the MK4 and has an easier to use interface.

Modular gear allows for very detailed levels of control by reducing inputs and outputs to absolutely basic levels of performance.

The use of samples or digitally recorded audio in modular is more of an adjunct than a method for sample playback. You'd have less expense and more success using something like an Akai MPC Live MkII. It will allow for you to load libraries of sounds as well as interface with the modular synthesis world.

I would work from that angle.

Just out of curiosity, Liine's Lemur running on an iPad and driving something like a Expert Sleepers FH2... how is this superior?

Because you have an odd number of hp left, might I recommend the 9hp Patching Panda Punch v3? It’s a super useful and surprisingly inexpensive dual VCA/envelope generator and more. It looked kind of cool so I picked one up and now use it in everything. Definitely worth looking into.

The first track uses my Lorre-Mill Double Knot and CL Plumbutter. The second uses a Bug Brand Board Chirper, Plumbutter, and some geetar.

Cheers!

Edited to add - if anyone is familiar with it, the first tune reminds me in parts of a Peter Sherrer/Arto Lindsay tune called Pretty Ugly.

EDITED Sep 8th 2021, 16:00

Well I have been expanding my rack and loving every minute of it, but could use some suggestions. First thing is I have a Pittsburgh 420 that turns out is actually 423 HP. The bottom row is actually a tiptop happy endings that I have mounted in my studio desk and is completely full, but the top row has 23 HP available.

I am looking for interesting modules to fill out this case.

Current thoughts:

Batumi
Planar
4MS Peg

Let me know what you would add and what makes it an essential component of your kit (I have considered PNW but I have a lot of that covered and not sure I am in love with the menu system for the types of functions it provides)

Here's a twisted idea for #2: instead of going with a VCO, you might find this more useful both as a sine VCO (up to a certain range) AND as a special LFO: Doepfer's A-143-9. Quadrature LFO modulation might sound quite interesting...for example, you could send the four phase-shifted outputs to the Veils' CV ins and get a perfect overlapping "strum" from the VCAs. Other possibilities are there, too...
-- Lugia

Interesting you say that...before I went down the path of just adding another VCO (Richter Wogglebug, MANGROVE, Loquelic Iteritas, Manis Iteritas, Cursus Iteritas were in the HP range I was considering) I did searches on primary=VCO secondary=LFO because I was wondering if I had LFO covered but then remembered I have Maths and Quadrax (I just today got notification that Perfect Circuit has QX Expander in and ordered immediately!!) so figured I had that realm pretty well covered. Is the Doepfer you recommend sort of a 'specialty' VCO/LFO module then? vs like what came up in my search (Dixie II+ and others)

Love it! Well done.