User Posts

Hi and welcome @BreadTruck28.
The first few things I notice are that you have too much sequencing power for a rack this size, the "workflow" of the rack is jumbled up, and you have multiple modules that do similar functions. I would recommend just starting out with the Eloquencer for sequencing. It has probability and quantization, so you can get some randomization. If that's not enough, maybe add the Ornament and Crime for its more esoteric functions, but Eloquencer will probably be plenty starting out (8 channels of gate/CV). You can get rid of the Rene and Scales. I would get rid of Pressure Points and Brains too. I thought I was going to love PP, but mine ended up collecting dust, so I sold it.
I would bypass the mini-Mutables. The ergonomics of the original MI versions are excellent, and you can find them at fair prices. Those little mini-knobs aren't very fun to work with. Same goes for the 2hp modules, and I think you can cover the territory of the Pluck module with Rings. You don't really need two output modules, so I would get rid of XOH and keep the 4ms mixer/output if you don't already have an external mixer.
I added a Zadar, Happy Nerding 3xMIA for attenuverters/mixing duties (so you can free up Maths for other stuff), an FX Aid XL (because it's awesome), and Links and Kinks (because they're handy). As far as oscillator and filter choices, that's kind of a personal choice so I'll let others chime in on that. I'm not sure exactly what sound you are going for. You probably have too many "feature modules," and will change your approach and oscillator/filter preferences after getting a few modules in your case.
I would recommend that you consider the TipTop Mantis cases instead of the RackBrutes. They are 2x104hp each with excellent internal power supplies, so you don't take up valuable rack space with the 5hp Arturia psu.
Finally, I organized the rack by function to make the workflow/signal flow easier to follow. Everyone is different, so you can take or leave my suggestions, but this would offer a good starting point in my opinion. Others in this forum will probably have different ideas for you to consider.

Have fun and good luck!

The Cosmix is news to me, but it looks like a great set of features. No idea how it sounds, so I'd be interested to hear feedback from anyone who has tried it.

Here's a three channel mixer/overdrive with mutes from TouellSkouarn. I love my Moffenmix, but it's definitely got a characteristic sound. I usually keep the gain pretty low unless I want to just destroy a sound.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/touellskouarn-sonveskan

Thanks again for listening @troux. I figure what I do is such a niche thing with the repetition and lack of traditional song structure that I really do appreciate when someone actually takes time to listen. I love "normal" verse-chorus-verse music as much as the next guy, but I have exactly zero interest in making it. Haha. I have a lot of visual artist friends, so their strange conceptual influence has probably rubbed off on me. Fun fact: Aside from the drums, the entire song Drowning in Positivity is actually the full mix of Squares run through the Panharmonium with some modulation. I thought it would be fun to create two completely different moods from the same source material.
I dig your stuff too. As a matter of fact, I listened to the track you shared yesterday again this morning.

*Edit: Thank you for listening as well @GarfieldModular. I really appreciate your thorough feedback!

EDITED Oct 14th 2020, 23:23

Looks like you kept the modules I suggested. Be sure that's what YOU want. It's your instrument, not mine, so go slowly and don't buy everything at once. Your actual rack will probably end up very different from this plan.

Yeah, you don't really need the Ochd. I was just patching away on mine here, and it's just so easy to use every single output to get some movement. I feel like I'm cheating. Haha.
Looks like this rack will be a fun addition to your existing gear. The Filter 8 looks awesome.

This looks pretty darn good to me with all of the external gear you mentioned. Ochd might be a fun addition, but you don't really need it here.
Have fun and good luck!

Just a heads up that the Bastl Grandpa has an expander module called Spa if you want to get the most out of it. You can use CV to control extra parameters that aren't easily accessible on the main module.

That seems like a matter of taste to me. I've sort of avoided the Frap Tools stuff because of their oddball user interface choices, though they are doubtlessly very powerful instruments. Cs-L looks like a great choice. I like my Furthrrr Generator, but it's 30hp, so takes up more space than the Cs-L. I stumbled across a complex oscillator blind shootout somewhere, and preferred the sound of the Furthrrr and surprisingly Make Noise's DPO. Maybe see if you can do some head to head comparisons.
Let us know what you decide.

As they say, you can never have too many VCAs. The Toppobrillo does have VCAs on each channel, though it's always useful to have more for other duties.
Have fun and good luck.

The Subharmonicon seems like the most fun synth to come out in recent years. Sounds great. Thanks for sharing.

I like the Toppobrillo Stereomix for a compact mixer. It covers all the bases I was needing.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/toppobrillo-stereomix-2-silver-panel

Research the Roland TR8S instead of the older TR8. The TR8S is a vastly improved drum machine that includes faithful emulations of every legendary Roland drum machine, sample playback capability, and with their recent firmware update even an FM synthesizer.
Have fun.

If I was in your shoes, just starting out, this is the rack I would want to work towards. I have two of the TipTop Mantis racks (and I'll soon buy two more), so that's what I'm basing this on. They have plenty of power. I own about half of these modules and have enjoyed working with them
The TipTop Throbbing Gristle sample player that you chose is discontinued, I believe, though they do pop up used occasionally. Instead, I've substituted the Disting Ex and the Erica Sample Drum to cover those capabilities. Mutable Instruments' Plaits is a mega-versatile digital oscillator that can cover the ground of the Chord Organ you chose and do waaaayyyyyy more (including wavetables, analog modeling, noise, resonator, some fm, etc.). Along with that, I included the Dixie analog oscillator so you can get into complex oscillator territory, and a versatile filter. You'll want envelopes, VCAs, submixing for drums, and attenuators so Maths, Veils, and Shades cover that. And then you still have your drums and sequencers. I left 10hp blank too.
This would be a source of fun for a long time, and it's still got room to grow.

Your groove box approach is how I got into modular, and I couldn't be happier. It's fun to build and use a completely 100% personalized instrument. Including a few drum modules is probably a good idea as you are starting out. Maybe that will be exactly what you were looking for, or if not you can always sell them on Reverb for a fair amount. I've bought and sold a few clunkers, but like you, I try to do a good bit of research before buying. If I know I'm just not going to use something after I try to incorporate it into my setup, I don't get attached to it and sell it. As far as being able to modulate a bunch of different parameters, those WMD percussion modules I mentioned are excellent. I got the Crucible and may pick up the Crater, though I probably don't really need that one.
Yes, the Elektron stuff is way too menu-divey for me. Their stuff sounds great and they have their diehard fanbase, but there is a steep learning curve and I lean more towards "one knob, one function" and not pages of menus, submenus, file subfolders, button combinations, alternate button combinations, etc. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. My workflow just appreciates the Roland and x0x-style sequencing for drums. Once you start building your personalized groove box, you'll know if you need to add outboard gear to get the results you're looking for.
I'll take a look at your updated rack plans now.
Take care!

Well, I think this piece convinced me on Akemie's. And yeah, Magneto has such a great sound.

Wow, I'm listening to this on your Bandcamp now. Love it!
It's got kind of a woozy BoC vibe that I really dig. I have been tossing around the idea of adding either Akemie's Castle or the Ensemble Oscillator, and this just made my decision even harder. Haha.
Good job, my friend.

@troux Thanks for listening! I really appreciate it.
Almost all of the drums on every track are recorded live in one or two takes on the Behringer RD8 (the Roland TR808 clone). There's some WMD Crucible, Loquelic Iteritas Percido, Basimilus, and Rings scattered throughout, but that RD8 is just so fun to use and gives a convincing 80s/90s vibe. That's the Behringer TD3 doing the acid line on Squares. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'll probably grab the RD9 when it's finally released. Regardless of how I feel about the classics-cloning, Behringer has redeemed themselves as far as sound and quality in my book.
Again, thanks for your time. It's always nice to have someone listen when you put something out in the world.
Take care!

Here's a link to the first track. I know that time is a valuable commodity, so thank you for letting me take a little of yours.

This week is my birthday, so I finished up an album to give away to everyone. These songs are a bit different than the other stuff I've shared (though that doesn't mean they're any good). There's no artsy unifying concept other than it's an expression of my influences and love of electronic music over the years. There's the spirit of krautrock, psychedelic and shoegaze, some Prince, some bangin' 90s acid techno a la Josh Wink or Plastikman, some Brian Eno, some Oval, some drone, some Kraftwerk, William S. Burroughs, and a slow-burn blooming dark minimal techno track all rolled into 35 minutes.
It would mean a lot if you gave it a spin. Hey, it's free... (though you can send me money if you want😜).
Hope you find something you like. Thanks for being a cool group of folks!

https://ciernyvlk.bandcamp.com/album/ethos

Like I mentioned, it's all a matter of taste, but I find (and I think some folks here would agree) that the cost to effectiveness ratio of modular drums is not all that great. I've spent a fair amount of money on drum modules and rhythm sequencing options and ultimately enjoy the process and results of my $300 Behringer RD8 much more than most of the drums I come up with in my rack. Basimilus's sound and modulation versatility are excellent, and it's fun to stumble upon interesting or random rhythmic ideas with modules like Euclidean Circles (which I may end up buying one of these days), but overall I find modular drums as a good supplement to external drums. Elektron makes great drum machines, though I didn't click with their interface, so the immediacy, versatility, and value of the Roland x0x-style drum machines makes a LOT more sense to me. Drums and polyphony are where I find weaknesses in the modular approach, so those are the external sources I incorporate with my rack.
Edit Check out the WMD drum modules. The Crucible, Crater, Chimera, and Fracture are pretty awesome.
The Cs-L looks killer. I've got the Furthrrr Generator and you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands. :)
After you start getting some modules in your rack, you will know what you need next. You will find yourself reaching for something that isn't there, and that's the next module you need to get. The Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4 or Disting EX is a good module to get early on because it covers so many of those functions that you don't realize you will need. Take a look through the manual for the huge list of functions it can serve. It's kind of menu-divey and not super fun to use, but I'm finding it more and more valuable every day. I'm still finding new things it can do.
Keep us updated and let us know what you decide. Have fun!

EDITED Oct 12th 2020, 09:07

Great info. With 2020 being what it is, it's definitely a good time to get back into making some music. I love Amon Tobin and Fever Ray.
Well, let's think about your proposed rack. You have a few different sequencers (Mimetic, Steppy, Euclidean), all with different strengths, weaknesses, and learning curves. Have you considered combining these into a single, more powerful, full-featured sequencer? I would recommend a master clock like Pamela's New Workout for sure (It can do gate sequencing, Euclidean rhythm stuff, LFOs, etc. with 8 outputs, 12 if you get the expander). The sequencer itself is a matter of taste, but I would try to whittle it down to one good one that can do multiple channels of gate and CV.
Again, a matter of taste but, I feel like there are better options for drums beside the Queen of Pentacles. It's getting very mixed reviews, and for that kind of money I think I would choose an outboard option like the Roland TR8s, TR6s, or something similar. You would have access to every great drum machine sound of the past, sample playback, fun and intuitive sequencing, and some effects. I think the TR8s also functions as a USB interface as well, but you may want to check on that. I have Endorphin.es prior drum machine (Blck Noir), and it's a love/hate thing. I rarely get exactly what I want out of it. I also have Endorphin.es Milky Way effects module, and I would HIGHLY suggest you consider replacing it with a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL. Similar cost and only 6hp, and it's a much more versatile multi-effects module. It may even diminish your Erbe Verb GAS.
Basimilus is fun. Arbhar looks like a blast too. Maths, Ochd, and the stereo mixer are good ideas. I would recommend looking for modules that have CV inputs though, so you can modulate all of the parameters. That's the whole fun of modular. It doesn't look like you can control volume or panning via CV on the mixer you've chosen.
You have the Optomix low pass gate, which is great, but I would recommend adding a complex oscillator to have fun with that. Something like the DPO, Furthrrr Generator, Verbos, etc. will be so versatile for melodies, percussion, and general wacky bleeps and bloops.
Finally, utilities like VCAs, mults, sample-and-hold, submixers, logic, and the like will be very important too, and you don't have a lot of that stuff. Mutable Instruments' Links and Kinks are small invaluable utility tools that should be in a smaller rack like this.
Those were my first thoughts as I looked over your rack idea. I'm sure others will have some good ideas too.
Have fun and good luck!

Hmmm... I have a lot of thoughts here, but first, what kind of music are you hoping to create with this, and do you have any other synth/sequencing/drum gear already?

Oh, that's right. I forgot you had a Sinfonion. One of these days I would love to try one of those out.

I use the Eloquencer for more precise sequencing and the Voltage Block for experimenting. It's not really like the Varigate aside from the Malekko brand and imprecise sliders. What I like to do with the Voltage Block is program in arpeggios and short sequences (you can choose pattern length between 1 and 16 steps) quantized to a scale, and then rearrange the patterns on the fly. You can repeat a single step by holding down the button for the desired step, or hold down a few buttons to pick a few steps of a longer sequence to bounce between, as well as traditional up/down/up-down/random. If quantized, the sliders become a little easier to use. I have used the Baseck/Basimilus Iteritas Alter combination too with some crazy results. It's a fun little box with some valuable tools.

Garfield, have you checked into the Voltage Block? It might have some of the repeat step functionality you mentioned earlier in this thread. I use it with the Eloquencer, and really enjoy the combination.

That 909 clone would be so sweet, but not sure if I can justify getting one. I'll keep you in mind for a Zlob Vnicursal though.

Welcome back Kel_!

I get the feeling you could replace those two large filters with a Joranalogue Filter 8 and have a LOT of hp left to spare. Add a Kinks or DivKid's Rnd Step and Ochd. I would look at alternatives to the ADSR as well, something like Zadar would probably be a better choice.
I have read about a lot of frustration with Cold Mac though I've never used one. Might be something to research further.
Have fun and good luck.

Just a few things I was thinking about as I looked over your rack. You probably don't need either the buffered mult, the ADSR, the Viol Ruina, or the Intellijel Outs. Passive mults will work fine for most purposes, and in a rack this small I would recommend using a few of those star-shaped external signal splitter things. Buffered mults are mainly for splitting 1v/oct CV with no drop. ADSR envelopes would be useful if you are playing with a keyboard, but less useful with percussion. A Quadrax (4x AD envelopes/LFOs/etc.) or something similar might be more useful in place of the ADSR.
I haven't personally found a need for a line-level output module yet, though you might. Just keep an eye on your levels and you should be fine without. More than likely, you will need the opposite: a preamp module that boosts line level signals to modular level. The Viol Ruina is a low pass gate which is good for creating percussive sounds from oscillators and noise sources, but you don't have any of those here. I think you'll be disappointed with the usefulness of that module as an effect with your DrumBrute. Which leads me into this question: What can modular do for your DrumBrute that some effects pedals cannot? Why choose this format for an effects processor? Will you be branching out into synthesis later?
Most importantly, you probably want this to be fun so I would recommend looking into modules that have a lot of CV control. Your delay and ring mod have very little control. The Disting is mega-useful (so I would keep it), but not very fun to use. Maybe take a look at a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL. It's only 6hp, but has three CV controllable parameters and a bunch of effects.
In small racks like this, it's common to try to squeeze in a million tiny modules. Instead, get modules that are hands-on AND CV controllable, which usually means larger. You will almost certainly want a bigger rack in the long run to get the most out of modular. Whether it's the RackBrute 6U or a Mantis... Start planning for that now.
Have fun and good luck.

EDITED Oct 8th 2020, 10:11

Malekko Voltage Block and PNW would be my choice for this challenge.

Just some food for thought... You have about 60hp dedicated solely to effects in a relatively small first rack. That's a lot of space and money for some reverb and delay. Is there a more cost/space conscious way you could get a similar result? Multi-FX module (Erica makes a few good ones)? Guitar pedals and FX send module?
All of the modules you have chosen are great, don't get me wrong. Again, just giving you some things to consider.
Have fun and good luck

Love it! Well done.

I would recommend rearranging your rack for easier workflow. Voices, filters, and VCAs together at the top, with sequencing, modulation, and utilities (envelopes, LFOs, etc.) on the bottom row. This will help you visualize audio and CV flow a little better. It may also help you see what you might be missing. Try to imagine how a MiniMoog's signal flow is arranged. That is a popular synth for its ease of use.
Have fun and good luck.

Ornament & Crime, a sequential switch, and a matrix mixer might be good choices. A Disting might give you some good ideas too.

EDITED Oct 4th 2020, 18:49

Thanks for the feedback Sweelinck! I appreciate you.
I'm exploring a different project now, but I may return to this idea at some point.

I think he's done. His website says, "All manufacturing has permanently stopped." A few months back I hashtagged Moffenzeef on Instagram and he just responded with "Moffenzeef is dead."
Hopefully he'll pop back up with a new project eventually.

I'm going to miss Moffenzeef. I use the Mito and Deviant in every patch. Unfortunately, I could never get the Muskrat to sit well in any of my music (which is weird because I do a bunch of glitchy stuff) so I sold it. He had a very unique vision that will be sorely missed.

I'm with Lugia. This seems good to me as is.
I love the 3xMIA but the Levit8 should give you similar functionality.
Have fun!

The Bastl stuff is quirky and an acquired taste. You either love it or you don't. The wood and aluminum panels are functionally the same. I had a wood panel Knit Rider and it was a little odd.
I've not used the CV Trinity, but I chose to sell my Bastl products and replace them with alternatives. Not sure that I would invest that amount of money in a CV Trinity, but let us know what you decide.
Have fun and good luck!

Personally, I would pull out the Surface and the Manis Iteritas. I love NE stuff, but something about the Manis becomes tiresome very quickly to me. You would have a much broader pallet of sounds by adding a Dixie or something similar to the DPO.

What kinds of sounds are you producing?? Playing live, or mainly studio use?
-- vectrospectre
Like you, I am interested in a wide variety of music so I wanted something flexible. I just wrapped up a raw, glitchy, post-punkish art project thing, but I also love Boards of Canada, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Autechre, Depeche Mode, Brian Eno, Tortoise, Richie Hawtin, Japan, Cocteau Twins, harsh noise... you name it. I basically love any and all synth and sample based music. I may decide to play some minimal techno live, but I mostly just have fun creating at home. I just added a Sequential Prophet Rev2 to my rig, so I'm working towards a more polished and focused sound now.
I'm not that familiar with Tempi, so I can't comment on it specifically, but with all of the percussion modules you have planned, you are going to want a way to program each of them at individual meters/rhythms. A single multed clock won't really do that. The Eloquencer has eight CV/gate channels, but you will eat those up pretty quick with all of the voices/envelopes/VCAs, so with Pam's 8 (or 12 w/ the expander) additional clocks you can program more complex rhythms. That's how I use it, anyway. Ornament & Crime may be able to do some of that too, but I've shied away from that module's user interface. I don't enjoy complex menus, but you may work better that way.
The Performance Mixer is definitely overkill if you are mainly just using the ES9 and Ableton.
Let us know how you progress in this journey!

Your proposed rack is actually very similar to my current rack, so I'm going to tell you that you are on the right track. :)
I would recommend eliminating one of the sequencers and adding a Pamela's New Workout as a master clock (and more). You could add a Euclidean Circles to Pam's and the Eloquencer and have a pretty powerful combo. It may be wise to eliminate the Mutamix and invest in a larger CV-able mixer like WMD's Performance Mixer. I think I would make do without the patchbays, and replace them with a buffered mult or two, maybe something like Mutable's Links. That's my preference, anyway.
Ripples is a great all-around filter, but it might be worth investing in two completely different styles of filter (Font and Ripples appear to be very similar). G-Storm Electro is making some cool reproductions of classic filters. A low pass gate would probably add some new flavor as well.
These are just a few things that came to mind as I was taking a once-over on your rack. You will have a blast with something like this, but take it slow... Just a few modules to start with until you realize what you really NEED next. It may turn out completely different than what you are planning now. Be adaptable.
Have fun and good luck!

I think you will be fine with the Batumi/Zadar/Maths combo. No need to add Quadrax at this point.

Hi and welcome Majestic. I agree with everything Jim said. You will want more VCAs than just the Tallin, and you do have too many feature modules and not enough utilities. The Zadar and Batumi will offer great modulation possibilities, but you will want to attenuate/invert/control some of that modulation (a Happy Nerding 3xMIA and a quad VCA, maybe?). Jim's suggestion of starting with the Korg SQ1 is spot-on as well. You may find that you want to go a different route than the more expensive Vector Sequencer.
I prefer larger modules too, so I had to get a much bigger case to accommodate the utilities that make the fun modules more exciting. All of the feature modules you have chosen are great, but you won't get the most out of them the way you have planned this out in such a small footprint.
My final food-for-thought is to consider a different polyphonic source besides the Chainsaw. I had the Chainsaw along with the WMD Triad, and found it to be very limited for the cost. I ultimately decided on an external hardware polysynth. Just an idea to consider.
Have fun and good luck!

I've had great luck with my TipTop Mantises (Mantii?). No noise at all.

Haven't used the Varigate, though it looks like a very capable and fun sequencer. I opted for the Eloquencer, and have found it very intuitive, reliable, and powerful. I don't really enjoy menu-diving, but the Eloquencer's menu system is pretty shallow and easy to use in the same vein as Pamela's New Workout. Most of what you need is on the surface if you aren't getting too complex.
The probability settings are what really sold it for me. It's super simple to add some humanization, semi-randomness, and movement to all of your patches. For my money, it was the best overall sequencer.
I also have a Voltage Block, Arpitecht, and Moffenzeef Mito for different cv/gate sequencing flavors, but the Eloquencer is definitely my go-to.

The G-Storm OBxa filter clone sounds outstanding in the demos I've seen. I'll definitely look into this one.

What are you hoping to do music-wise? Do you have any other gear?

Yes, I have to vouch for Pam's New Workout too. I don't really enjoy menu-diving either, but Pam's is the glue that holds my rack together. It's pretty easy to use, and usually set and forget for my patches. Highly recommended early in your modular journey.
Have fun and good luck!