Have you tried the Trig input instead of the Tempo CV input?
I would still recommend buying a few modules at a time and allowing for a change in plans. My actual rack is much different than my initial plans.
I’ve argued in favor of the aesthetics being an important part of modular in the past. Just as guitars use flame maple tops and drums have glitter finishes, it’s OK to want your instrument to look cool too. With that being said, if it only looks good but doesn’t have the right parts for YOUR style of music and patching, it becomes an expensive attractive paperweight. I would advise placing function over form as you begin assembling your instrument. Use the thing, don’t just look at it. And if you buy a module that doesn’t fit in, sell it for a small loss and move on quickly to something that actually works for you.
That’s about the best advice I can offer. Let us know how you progress in the journey!
Hi Nabroc. The Expert Sleepers ES-8 is an audio and CV interface that will do exactly what you are looking to do. Their larger ES-9 also functions as a standalone mixer with more channels. There are other (cheaper?) ways, but these are good modular options.
Have fun and good luck!
>
I want to conclude by reiterating this general question: given the stated aim (the ability to generate a broad palette of interesting "experiemental" and evolving timbres and textures; generative patches; loads of modulation; loads of flexibilty; both control and room for the unexpected; a unique, personalized instrument), am I actually falling short functionality-wise in the sense of failing to realize the aim? I grant that the aim could be achieved differently and with smaller modules, but that's another matter.-- wrecksmoondee
I think each of us has a different definition for "functionality," so your approach to a unique, personalized instrument is vastly different than mine, which is great. Yes, this will likely do the things you want unless your idea of experimental evolving textures includes sounds that you would find in something like the Spherical Wavetable Navigator, Panharmonium, Rings, or other wacky digital modules. I like some stuff like that, so your plan wouldn't be quite as functional for me.
Either way, it seems like you have a good understanding of synthesis. Dive in. Buy some modules. You'll know if your plan is a good one once you start patching. Have fun with it!
I'm not sure if my old ears could tell the difference, but it may be nice to have the option. Lugia could probably break down the science of it for you, but changes in volume sound unnatural with linear VCAs if I remember correctly. Here's some additional info:
https://learningmodular.com/linear-versus-exponential/
Start off with the linear VCAs, and if you decide you need exponential, that's what you'll end up buying next. The beauty of modular! :)
Have fun.
Sounds like you have a great plan, and I'm sure this system will give you many years of excellent service!
I only have a few Doepfer modules myself, so hopefully some of the other users will chime in with specific module recommendations (or warnings).
Hi wrecksmoondee. Looks like you have just about everything you'll need. Maybe some exponential VCAs (unless I overlooked those) and additional attenuverters, though the matrix mixer may work for inverting signals. Will you be adding any external effects?Also curious if you are only interested in Doepfer, or will you be researching other manufacturers too? As much as I really want that A154/A155 combo, but there are very capable sequencers in a much smaller footprint.
You are off to a great start here, though I wouldn't recommend buying everything at once. If you just buy a few modules at a time, that will give you the opportunity to adjust your plans on the fly to incorporate modules that may be a better fit for the type of music you want to do.
Have fun and good luck!
Yes, I think the Sinfonion is what you are looking for. I know that one of the members here uses the Sinfonion. Maybe @GarfieldModular can give you some guidance.
Have fun and good luck!
Awesome! Thanks so much for curating this @troux.
Just purchased.
There is a post pinned in the Modular Grid forum:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/801
I've definitely considered it. I'll watch some demos to help make up my mind. That always works out bad for my wallet though. Haha.
Good breakdown, Garfield. What about the Pittsburgh EP420? I’m too lazy to do the math. Haha
Here in the U.S., there was short period where the Mantis was plentiful both new and used, and there were lots of sales so I think many of us have defaulted to that one. Also, I’m just fond of the aesthetics of it, though I know that is up for debate. I’m growing to love Doepfer stuff, and I may invest in one of their cases eventually.
Thanks for the price breakdown and food for thought.
Ha! Was posting this at the same time as farkas, apparently
-- Shakespeare
What is it they say about great minds? Haha.
While I have to assume there are people out there who have been extremely satisfied with a small limited rack like this, I felt very constrained until I had about 300hp filled. Maybe that says more about the limits of my creativity and ingenuity than anything. I also prefer larger modules too, so the small knobs and cramped interfaces don't get much use in my rack.
Ergonomics is something that seems to be overlooked in some of these small palettes. I've watched some of the MylarMelodies and Ricky Tinez tiny rack videos and I would get so frustrated with the crowded lack of tweaking space. But different strokes for different folks. That's the beauty of being a musician.
Hi Kieran. You may want to take a look at the post "Minimum Viable Party" from earlier this morning. There is some overlap in my suggestions here.
In short, get a bigger case. You will want and need it in the long run. Think long term and not based on your current proposed idea and budget. All of that will go out the window when you buy a few modules to start with. There are a few other threads in this forum about the folly of trying to do a tiny modular build despite the current wave of YouTube videos. I would recommend you read through those threads pretty carefully before buying a tiny palette case.
If you want specific module guidance, let us know. Lots of folks here will be glad to help.
Have fun and good luck!
Welcome @benjaminjamesgreen. I would first recommend planning long-term, i.e. not what your current budget is, but what you want to achieve. Anyone who is into modular quickly finds out that money and space quickly disappears. With that said, most will tell you to invest in a larger case from the get-go. You WILL want the space eventually, and you can fill it with blind panels in the meantime. The TipTop Mantis is almost always the recommended starter case around here. 2x104hp, inexpensive, and great power supply with a decent amount of power headers.
A second recommendation would be to get a dedicated drum machine instead of trying to include drums in your modular right off the bat. The drum modules you have chosen don't have a lot of patch points, and so their sound design capabilities are very limited. They're also very tiny. That's not very fun. Get a more versatile drum machine that you can clock and interface with your modular for now. You can always invest in better drum modules in the future. Most beginners try to pack too much functionality into a small space (I did it too). For something small like this, focus on developing an excellent synth voice and try to make it as tweakable and patchable as possible. Plaits is always a good starting point. Also, you probably won't need an output module if you get a good quad cascading VCA to double as a mixer.
I've put together what I consider to be a good STARTING point for a modular synth. It overshoots your budget, but I promise that is going to happen anyway. And, you don't need to get everything at once. When you start patching, you will discover what you need to buy next. Some of the others in this forum will probably have recommendations and suggestions for budget friendly alternatives too.
Have fun and good luck!
Edit*
This build assumes that you will be using the Disting or uO_C Piqued for the envelope functions. I have added a Quadrax envelope generator but it's not showing up above.
Also, I don't know if you already have the Natural Gate or if it's on your wishlist. I haven't been able to personally justify the substantial cost or wait for this LPG yet. I know it doesn't have the same cool factor, but I just got the Takaab 2LPG and it sounds incredible. It's only 2hp and costs about $40. If you are in the market for an outstanding vactrol based LPG, the 2LPG is hard to beat.
I think Erica makes a dedicated drum sub-mixer, and the Moffenzeef Moffenmix is really fun if you can find one secondhand. I always recommend the Happy Nerding 3xMIA for a mega-useful mixing utility. Happy Nerding also makes the 6Mix in 6hp. I've found sub-mixers to be an integral part of my performance oriented patching. The G-Storm Electro Infusor-X may be a sub-mixer worth looking at too.
I've also found Quadrax to be a quick and smaller alternative to Maths (though it's missing Maths' handy attenuverters. The 3xMIA can make up for those).
I can see getting rid of Marbles, but I would reconsider getting rid of Plaits. While it may not be the coolest oscillator in the world, it is one of the most versatile and sits nicely in a mix. I can always find a way to put Plaits to use in almost any patch.
Have fun and good luck!
I don't think so. NE's description states that the Muta Jovis is primarily meant for gates and triggers, but will mute audio too. That leads me to believe that it will not sound as natural as the DivKid.
Are you running out of VCAs? If so, it’s time to add more.
Everyone patches differently. And everyone has different modules, some with integrated VCAs, so it’s really just a matter of “if you find yourself reaching for something that isn’t there, buy that next.”
Yes, I was going to recommend Orbital 2 as well. I think Orbital's "Chime" is among my all time favorite electronic tracks. It's so simple, but has such a great vibe.
Sounds great @troux. I love the transition around the 6:45 mark. Kind of gives me Orbital vibes.
Good idea! The O&C does look like a cool module but I already have a Disting Mk4 and Pam's New Workout in the rack, and I think that is my limit of menu-divey modules.
-- the-erc
Ha! That's pretty much where I've drawn the line with menu-divey modules too.
The Micro Ornament and Crime has 4 tweakable EGs plus a TON of other stuff in 8hp, but it's menu-divey so I'm not sure if it's the best option.
The X1L3 Shard is super gnarly.
The Schlappi Engineering Interstellar Radio may be something to consider. I've considered picking up the Ataraxic Iteritas for dark ambient tones as well.
That's a cool sound, Garfield. This kind of reminds me of a raga or maybe an Arabic scale.
I love discovering new sounds like this!
In regards to the Blck_Noir vs. RD-8, I actually owned an RD-8 and sold it, due to having the 808 sounds covered with the Roland TR-8S and, via samples, Pioneer DJ SP-16. The Blck_Noir was selected to obtain sounds different than the typical 808 and 909, or any other drum machine option I have available in my studio.
-- ReverseShuffle
OK, if you have the TR8S, you have the X0X sequencing and 808/909 sounds covered. The Queen of Pentacles sounds are covered by the TR8S too, so I'd probably bypass that one. The Blck_Noir is definitely a unique sounding drum machine. It might be good to supplement your other drum machines, but I'm wondering if you couldn't just use CR78 samples to get the same flavor. For me, the Blck_Noir has very limited potential for a certain style and era of music (the post-punk style that I happen to love and experiment with often). I find the effects section fiddly too, and rarely use the added effects/filter.
Just wanted to give you a user's point of view. BN is a cool sound, but is it $500+ cool? That's up to you.
You may want to consider the WMD drum modules (Crucible, Crater, Fracture, Chimera) for a more versatile and CV-controllable set of drum sounds.
Yes, the easiest way to think of it is that an envelope is a triggered one-shot event while an LFO is a continuously cycling event.
They can be the same shapes (sine, triangle, square, oddly shaped ADSR, bouncing ball, etc.), but the envelope only goes through the cycle once per trigger. LFOs can be synced with a clock, but repeat the shape over and over.
Have fun and good luck!
+1 to all of the above.
Can't remember where I stumbled across this video. It may have been posted here before. It really brings home the importance of playing the X0X style sequencer as its own instrument for this style of music. The RD8 has three trigger outs if you want to add some TipTop 909 modules for that flavor. Enjoy, and happy holidays to all!
For the style of music you are interested in, I would HIGHLY recommend getting the Behringer RD8 (or maybe waiting for the RD9) for your drum voices. I have both the Blck_Noir and the RD8, and the Blck_Noir has a gritty character that is more in line with late 70s/early 80s post-punk than techno. I'm a big fan of that whole Detroit scene, and the RD8 has Drexciya written all over it (much cheaper and more fun too!). They're both cool, but I've mentioned in this forum before that I never feel like I get exactly what I want out of the Blck_Noir. The RD8 also has a few trigger outs and a clock input so you can integrate it well with your modular.
Just my two cents after a quick glance at your rack. I'll take a closer look after the holidays.
Have fun and good luck!
Thanks @troux.
Next project will be quite different. As always, I'm anxious to hear what you come up with in the future.
Sounds great. I would definitely buy that. Thanks for thinking of us ragtag bunch of lunatics. :)
Here's a link to one of my tracks if you would like to submit it:
https://ciernyvlk.bandcamp.com/track/drowning-in-positivity
Happy holidays to everyone!
Get an FX Aid XL instead of the Milky Way. I have both.
You can thank me later ;)
What kind of music are you making? Do you have other external gear?
edit
I would probably lean towards a multi-function module like the Disting EX. If you like your rack as-is, the Disting EX would give you access to just about anything else you might need. Sample and Hold, quantizers, noise, wavetable VCO, LFO, tuner, delay, phaser, sample playback... That's probably how I would fill that hole anyway.
Have fun and good luck.
As far as patch ideas, you and I probably have very different creative workflows. We certainly have different modules. I'm not all that familiar with Hermod or SMR, so I can't speak much to the capabilities of those. I like a lot of repetition with subtle (almost imperceptible) changes, so I would probably be bouncing elements between Morphagene and Clouds in Looping Delay mode, subtle modulation, subtle addition and subtraction of elements, volume swells, happy accidents... kind of a musique concrete approach. I also like to add semi-random ratchets to a repetitive but slowly morphing 8 step sequence over another sequence of, say, 24 steps, and another element of, say, 36 steps for kind of a Tangerine Dream vibe. I don't know if Hermod can do ratchets though.
Do you have an external drum machine? Sometimes starting from a skeletal percussion line will lead you to new rhythmic and textural ideas with the melodic voices.
If you are looking to do more generative stuff, you will probably want to add something like Triple Sloths, Wogglebug, or something similar. I'm a huge fan of Pamela's New Workout for syncing everything. Ochd is a cool little multi-LFO, Sequential switches and long envelopes/slow LFOs through modulated VCAs will lead you in some fun directions. I've held off on picking up uO_C (Ornament and Crime) because off the menu-diving, but something like that or a Disting Mk4 might give you some options too.
It's hard to fit everything you need into a small case. I would recommend expanding, as Lugia mentions, to fit in all of the utilities and modulation you need before you sell anything. You have the big pretty modules and aren't getting the most out of what you already have. On the other hand, don't be embarrassed of buyer's remorse if you know a module isn't working for you. Sell it for a small loss and move on quickly to something that will inspire you for years to come. Just do your research first so those mistakes become fewer and farther between. Above all, have fun with it.
Ha! Just saw @troux was posting as I was writing. Looks like we both have similar thoughts about lack of modulation.
Have you tried using the Rings string/organ Easter egg? I use that quite a bit. Rings and Clouds were two of my first modules and truth be told, I don't really care for them that much. They're ok, but they're not very inspirational for me (especially Clouds).
One module you may want to consider is the Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium. I wasn't immediately smitten with it but I love it now. It checks the ambient AND dark boxes for you. It's a big module though. I've been concentrating more on analog VCOs, filters, and LPGs lately, so I may not be the right person to really answer this question for you.
Looking at your rack, it looks like you would probably benefit from considerably more modulation sources (Zadar, Batumi, Quadrax, random, etc.). The 4ms SWN might fit the bill for you since it has built-in LFOs and the wavetables can do pretty or dark.
Have fun and good luck!
I'll bite. What about something like this:
This would require you to eave the 0-Coast outside of the rack (which is a wise idea anyway), and would give you 10hp left over to have some fun with. I've included several Happy Nerding modules because they make insane bang for the buck, well crafted, necessary utilities.
I'm probably missing something, but you aren't going to fit everything in a small rack.
Have fun and good luck!
Yes, it would be helpful to know what kind of music you are making, and what you would like to achieve.
I think I would want some effects, so an FX Aid XL might come in handy. Peaks is a love-hate module for me. I have the mini-clone Pique, and while it has a lot of functions, they sort of defeat the purpose of modular because you can't really control anything with CV. I would look for something with more patch points that your Mother 32 could actually interact with. Maths or Quadrax would be fun in this regard. Plaits would add a range of voices. A random or chaos module like the Wogglebug or Triple Sloths could be cool...
Let us know what other gear you already have and what you want to accomplish by adding to your Mother.
Have fun and good luck.
Haha. Yeah, it's got kind of a mountain vibe.
I just thought it was an interesting acoustic guitar and cajon sound. Not something I expected from an FSS module.
I've been experimenting with the Future Sound Systems Recombination Engine, and man... what a fun module. I captured about 30 seconds of a freak-folk-hippie-country synth jam that I stumbled into. The Recombination Engine is the primary sound source (melody and percussion) with some bass notes from AJH. Also used Ripples and a touch of DLD.
I was fascinated by the versatility of this oscillator, but didn't feel like recording into the laptop, so I just pulled out my phone real quick. Sorry for the low quality. I haven't seen many videos showcasing what the Recombination Engine can do.
I'm quickly turning into a FSS devotee. Great modules.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CIgtlsnBRlC/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
This is great. Kind of has a "Second Toughest in the Infants"-era Underworld vibe. Nice!
And GO BIGGER...like I've noted, you really DON'T want to do this in a 1-row cab that only has 75 hp remaining. farkas says you can, with considerable effort, and this is true...but from my 40-ish years in electronic music, I can tell you right off that you do not want to do this.
-- Lugia
Yes, I should have said that while this is POSSIBLE, it's not advisable.
I can't tell from your posts how much you have experimented with synths or modular in the past, but the general idea of a modular rack is that each module is an individual circuit (or collection of circuits) that suit a very specific function. What's cool about it is that you can re-route those circuits to do interesting things that can't necessarily be done with a hardwired synthesizer or pedal.
So, you probably want to control pitch, speed, volume, number of delay repeats, reverb swells, etc. over time without having to turn a knob every time you want to adjust something. This is where your choice of modules is very important (especially in a small 88hp rack). A huge harmonic oscillator will be almost worthless without many other modules to make it sing. There will be no way to modulate volume without a VCA. There will be no way to modulate pitch/play notes without a sequencer and envelopes/LFOs of some sort.
If you are just hoping to modulate piano samples and vocals through the Morphagene, something like Make Noise Maths, the Expert Sleepers Disting EX, XAOC Batumi, or something of that sort may come in handy. Clouds or Arbhar are interesting granular synths that you could use for vocals to maybe get the "cascade" effect you mention. But you will still want VCAs and other utilities to control the levels of your modulation.
Basically, modular allows you to build a completely unique and personalized synth or effects unit one circuit at a time and rewire it as you please to do different things. It will be difficult to build a versatile instrument in 88hp. It can be done, but it will require a considerable amount of research, and perhaps a sizable financial investment. You may receive some good module suggestions from the other folks here.
Have fun and good luck!
Hello and welcome, fuzzylogic.
As far as a functional modular system goes, you are missing almost everything important. Without utilities, VCAs, LFOs, envelopes, a sequencer, etc., your oscillator will just make a single tone that you can tweak by hand. A single (huge) oscillator in isolation will not add anything to your setup. What you seem to want are modulation sources for the Morphagene.
Can you give us a little more detail about the sounds you are hoping to synthesize from your rack? As you mention, you have plenty of effects for your vocals, so what do you envision a small eurorack synth to add to your setup?
Have fun and good luck!
Very cool. Just subscribed to your YouTube channel.
This is great. Well done.
I was guessing the main brassy melody lines were Loquelic Iteritas. Is that actually Mangrove?
Why limit yourself to 84hp? You will quickly exhaust the potential of this.
edit
Also, trying to pack this much functionality into a small space will make this a nightmare to tweak. You probably want this to be a fun and playable instrument, but that's going to be tough with no room to get your fingers in there.
