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just tried messing with it,but cant seem to find where in the BSP software(midi control center)you set up the ppqn?

it's under device settings/sync: clock in/out settings - you can choose 1 step. 24ppq, 48ppq or 2ppq (korg) - you need to connect your BSP to your computer to access the device settings!

thanks jim

i will probaly post more questions here soon:)
-- Broken-Form

NP

awesome thanks.
whats the best way to sync my pams new workout with beatstep pro?(i dont have any expander for pams new workout)
-- Broken-Form

you don't need an expander for Pams

depends:

BSP as master - use one of the drum triggers and patch that into the clock in of Pams - but Pams works best with higher ppqn (pulses per quarter note) which may be inappropriate on the BSP so the other way round is probably better

Pams as master - use one of the channels of Pams to send clock to BSP -> clock in - decide on a ppqn - and set that up using the BSP control software and set the clock multiplier on Pams to match it - 16 or 24 ppqn is probably best - although lower may work perfectly - you may want to experiment a bit

I'm looking to create something "well-rounded (as everyone says)" and generative.

you probably won't really achieve that in this size rack

I tend to like random abrupt percussive esque stuff, but also nice melodic harmonious stuff. I also play guitar and drums which I'd love to throw into this, hence the line input.

neither of which are at line level... and will require further amplification - the 1/2 veils clone may cover this, but then you're a vca down... beads has some gain built in I believe but I've never used it

But I honestly have no idea what I'm actually going for, just have to try stuff out I suppose. Anyways, let me know if you have any comments/suggestions.

I'd try to spend quite a lot of time trying to work out 1 thing you want this rack to do before spending any more money and focus on that - or upgrade the case so that it is big enough to discover what you want/need by buying more modules and patching it

*I know C4RBN is sold out forever, I'd definitely like to know any alternative 4hp or less models that are just as good. Thanks!

modules smaller than 4hp crammed in small cases with other small modules = crap ergonomics = no fun to play

I would suggest going and reading a lot of other newbie rack posts and taking a look at my signature and contemplating the formula therein

actual link to rack - jpgs are crap!!!

possibly a revision due to component unavailability

can i use it to sequence the E352,plaits and the boba fat at the same time?
-- Broken-Form

yes... one of the pitch sequencer channels for each of e352 & plaits (if you're using plaits as a melodic voice or to change mode) and 2 of the drum sequencer channels for the boba fet (& 1 for plaits if you're using it for a percussion voice)

you could also send both outputs of plaits to 2 vcas and use a pair of the drum sequencer channels to choose between them - different hats for example

-- JimHowell1970

awesome im making ambient music so first my plan is to only use the boba fat asa drum voice,and E352 and plaits for drony stuff

-- Broken-Form

np

in that case just use the pitch out from the 2 pitch channels - and nothing plugged into the level or trigger inputs on plaits

have fun!

can i use it to sequence the E352,plaits and the boba fat at the same time?
-- Broken-Form

yes... one of the pitch sequencer channels for each of e352 & plaits (if you're using plaits as a melodic voice or to change mode) and 2 of the drum sequencer channels for the boba fet (& 1 for plaits if you're using it for a percussion voice)

you could also send both outputs of plaits to 2 vcas and use a pair of the drum sequencer channels to choose between them - different hats for example

write a patch randomiser script/program - if you search around the internet then there's an example written in Python by Daniel Cramer which should be easy to find, understand and modify - it was written for a small portable system, but can be scaled to any size - there are some "features" of it which could be improved, but it's a good starting point

and another no more sound sources... 4 is more than enough in this size case!

I also agree that maybe more than 4 channels of sequencing is a good idea - so you can sequence modulation if you feel so inclined

ES8/ES9 - I've got an es8 +es6 but really only use it for audio in and out and clock (& occasional drum triggers) out (using an audio track) - it's a really useful piece of kit of you are combining modular and a computer though and would much rather use that for sequencing than midi

modulation - yes matrix mixer... just do it & I'd probably also go for a 3MIA too - as well as channel 2 & 4 of maths - the 3MIA will effectively be 6 channels of the mid section of maths in this use case - but I'd also not tie Maths up doing basic utilities - it's much more powerful when self patched to do more interesting things - bouncy ball etc etc

complex oscillator - rubicon2 iirc is a great module that can form part of a complex oscillator when patched with another oscillator and a wavefolder - I'd probably go this way as it is more flexible

re people gelling more with clouds than beads - I think at least some of that is down to when clouds was released and there was no competition in that area for a while so people played the shit out of clouds and hence got deeper into it - when beads was released there were other similar modules available from other manufacturers - so to some extent people got beads and compared it to the other granular effects that they had (or were available) and decided to go elsewhere

EDITED Jan 18th 2023, 18:11

Looks like it’s on 19/20 Aug 2023 - https://divkidvideo.com/modular-meets-leeds-2022/
-- andydavies

in that case there's always a possibility that I might make it for one or both days...

it's not that far, but it's no that close either - I'm the other side of Manchester and a bit south

EDITED Jan 18th 2023, 17:46

maybe ask on the scanlines forum... I don't frequent it, but it's full of video synth people - I just go to the lzx centric places

there's usually a big synth meet annually in Yorkshire ... so maybe wait for that... there'll be loads of filters to play with there

I had to leave 2 HP open to run the cables in/out.
-- adaris

that's what drills are for...

I think you'll have difficulty using the 2hp modules - too close together

do you need 4 vcas or will a single dual do? you might be able to get away with it by replacing the vca next to the adsr with a blank panel

in my case could be works in progress - or abandoned ones I need to clean up - or chopped up ones to separate power supplies - loads and loads of reasons - often private!! - or maybe just not for public consumption!!!

you'll need a better power supply than the uZeus - max -ve rail is 500mA - and you're over it, let alone leaving any headroom...

I'd go for a bigger case - something like a mantis - and have some space left over for the inevitable expansion* - it'll also mean you have plenty of headroom on both rails! - they come in black these days I believe and have way better power supplies than the uZeus!!!

or if you're set on a single row and it's DIY then the befaco excalibus is a decent power supply and doesn't take up valuable space (no rack wart!) - can't say I'd be happy with the layout like that - external input in the middle of a row etc

I don't have a lubadh, or any other instruo modules for that matter, but I'm sure there are plenty of others with multiples of modules that are in the same price range... and lots of people with multiples of other musical instruments that cost way more (guitarists - multiple guitars and amps, both often more expensive than any module, for example) - so I really don't think it's unrealistic to have multiple lubadhs - or really any more excessive than any modular synth... after all it's only money... and yours is yours to do with as you please

• filters, effects, a proper mixer etc!!!!

and the link

Now that I'm enjoying my synth computer-less, what's a good way to get some stereo delay and reverb, and also a stereo headphone jack output? (I'm not using speakers, so 1/4" outputs are not needed).

unless you really want to commit to eurorack (which, be warned, may tie up all your disposable income for years) then you may be better off with a smallish mixer that has built in digital effects - it's possible that one of these may also work as an audio interface, which would be a bonus

I was thinking maybe an effects module (such as Mutable Instruments Beads/Clouds) plus an "ALM019 - HPO" could do the trick.

modular effects rack = modular synth where the sound source is external

still need to think about modulation sources and utilities... so make sure you leave space to expand into in the case whatever you buy...

clouds cries out for at least a couple of channels of modulation sources - possibly one or more lfos plus random or chaotic - and attenuators or attenuverters as a minimum

beads has attenurandomisers built in, but would still benefit from lfos

I could make my own wooden box for these, but then I'd need a power supply. Should I get a eurorack power supply/bus and just use that, further complicating something seemingly small? I'm not yet ready to take the Model D out if its box, but perhaps I could tap it's power supply?

wooden boxes are easy - buy rails & threaded inserts though - they make life much easier & make bigger than you think you'll need - 6u 1-4hp is a good starter size

& yes you'll need a power supply - I like befaco excalibus which is available built or as a kit

as the model d has a powered case already I'd keep it in there... taking it out ans putting it in a larger case is a waste

Thanks! I couldn't figure out how people were adding their rack so perfectly in the post!

no problem...

I feel like I have a bit of a direction and then I get a new piece and it reminds me that I need these other pieces to really make it do something cool. Just when I feel like I'm doing something neat I watch someone else on Youtube and then I want to be able to do that too. I'm addicted.

yeah it's often that way... I want this module as it has this cool feature that I think would really lift my modular to the next level... ah now I need these 3-4 support modules to make it actually do what I want it to do... ah! now I need another case... sometimes stopping watching youtube is a good idea... also stepping back when you see something cool and trying to work out if you can do it already with the modules you have is a good idea... often just adding one or two utility modules will get you a long way for less money

EDITED Jan 6th 2023, 14:39

I still am unsure of the direction that I want to take my rack.

Not necessarily the best strategy... but it is quite common

I have just been adding modules as I could afford them.

that's generally what most people do, at least to

I saw a video of someone that had the case USB connected to a computer and was running some software to control the VCOs. Does anyone know if Garageband can do that? Or is there another free program? I'm not sure I would always want to do that but I would like to give it a try.

what does reading the helpfile/manual for Garageband tell you about setting up a midi track and sending the output to a midi device?

there are quite a few free DAWs available... google is good for finding out what they are

please copy and paste the url of your public rack into your post...

jpgs are crap for this purpose (ie requesting help/advice/sympathy/whatever) as they do not allow for 'mouse-over' or 'click-through' - which are really helpful in helping us help you!!

a big part of the journey is the research and thought that goes into it, it's your custom synth not mine!!

sayng that - don't overlook doepfer for utilities - they are inexpensive and do the job perfectly well - their a-151 sequential switch is a bargain, for example! but if you're looking at xaoc devices then for utilities samara II is hard to beat - it's definitely on my want list the future!

with regard to mutes - it's often better to mute gates/envelopes that are opening vcas, than muting actual audio - as muting audio can cause unwanted 'clicking' sounds - so maybe carrying on how you are doing it

if you can find a reasonably priced wmd performance mixer, I'd jump on it and see how you get on... you'll probably not lose money if you come to resell it in the future! just remember that you'll probably want more envelopes and modulation sources to drive the vcas and vcpanning - a good idea is to use the built in vcas to control overall volume of the channel - using another vca before to control the shape of the note 1st

EDITED Jan 5th 2023, 18:01

lots of good advice already!!!

I think that if you are stuck on the number of sound sources in the case, either adding an extra row to the rack, or better yet doubling the size of it, to allow for more modulation sources, a lot more utility modules and a decent mixing solution - ideally imo a matrix mixer (particularly, but not limited to, for modulation sources), some sub-mixers (for both cv and audio) and an end of chain mixer

see the formula in my signature for a quick guide to improving versatility of your modular for the least cash outlay

I think the wmd performance mixer might be difficult to get hold of now that they've closed...

& due to the large number of sound sources I'm not convinced the cosmix pro (only 6 channels iirc) will be big enough

I have a tesseract modular tex-mix - which is both expandable and reasonably priced... it also has vcas built in (on the mono channels) that could free up a lot of your vca channels for other purposes...

given my philosophy (see signature) I'd want more utilities & probably more modulation sources... the matrix mixer looks like a good addition towards this though - multing 5 modulation sources to this will give you up to 15 modulation outputs - something your other modules are screaming out for!!!

I'd spend some time researching different types of utility module and thinking about how they can add to your patching...

even without a maths, although personally I think everyone should have a maths, downloading and reading through the 'maths illustrated supplement' a few times, concentrating on the how, what and why of each patch, can massively add to your patching repertoire

Maybe I should add - "don't skimp on case and power - a mantis is the same price as a module!" - to my signature!!! although I think I'm at the character limit already...

Advice is a fantastic thing - you can either take it or leave it - and there's so much it's difficult to tell which is the good advice and which isn't!!!

NB I think Noise Reap closed

attached the dark ambient rack from broken-form
-- zuggamasta

thank zuggamasta - in that case maybe not...

each channel of the tex-mix has a vca built in... as does plaits - so probably for audio there's no need for more vcas -

BUT it mightn't hurt to have some more for modulating modulation

personally I would go with Mutable Veils (2020 version) ... and there are also DIY versions out there.
-- adaris

it's a bastard of a DIY module though not as difficult as some of the other mutable modules - unless you are very experienced at building smd electronics - I would stay away - hopefully ALA will get a full size clone out shortly

EDITED Dec 28th 2022, 02:33

can't see the rack - so that answer is probably yes

EDITED Dec 28th 2022, 02:33

do you have the correct version of the firmware installed - I'd upgrade to the latest version that your module will allow - I think it's the one just released - but check 1st...

case is weird size if you are actually building it - 84hp or 104hp rails are easier to buy - and a better size - especially the 104...

if you're not building it and buying it just get a mantis ffs - best bang for buck - hp/cost/decent power/manufacturer reputation...

having space to grow into is a good idea - filling (or nearly filling) the case immediately is, well a decision that basically says I am prepared to get a new case almost immediately...

starting small is a great idea, but should be based on number of modules not size of case...

Pam's I don't really case as utility - more modulation source - even if it includes some utilities - but they're a biut of a pain in the arse to use compared to individual untilities - the new pro looks a bit better than the 'new' version, but not that much more

same with the adsr module - modulation source not utility

BUT that's kind of how I (and quite a few others) think about it - see my signature below for hints on how to get the most versatility from your modular for the least cash...

answers:
1 I'd rather have veils - but might be difficult to source unless After Later Audio have released a clone - or the happy nerding 3*vca - either of the ones you have mentioned will be fine, the intellijel one does have gain (ie is actually an amplifier as opposed to an attenuator) so that would be my choice - as amplification is always useful!

2 yes - you do have too many sound sources to start with and too many in the long run in this size case - buy 1 to start with and learn to use it - in your first rack you're probably best off sticking to 1 sound source per row - maybe cram a 3rd in if you go for 6u 104hp - otherwise you will not have space for the modules that you inevitably need to support them

3 again yes - I'd want more modulation sources (which you've lumped in with utils - imo erroneously!) - I'd go for maths if possible - this is a bit controversial though - some people see it as 'too complicated' for beginners - these are often people who do not read manuals or studeously watch youtube videos about their modules and do not want to spend a lot of time 'learning a module' - I say do these things - download the 'maths illustrated manual' and work your way through it many times - deeply thinking about what it is doing - the what, why & how

for utilities I always like to have a sequential switch, attenuators, a matrix mixer (useful for combining modulation sources to get more complex ones) and sub mixers - sub mixers are useful for combining waveshapes from the same vco (the c-sl has a lot of outputs - looks like at least 8 to me, but I don't have one, so idk for definite) - I'd want at least 2 4 channel sub-mixers just or that

I'd also take a look at your end of chain (eoc) mixer - not enough channels for what's in the case already... no send/return

plaits has 2 separate outputs (different versions) not necessarily stereo bit can be used as such (but it also has vca/filter ie an lpg) so you probably want 2 eoc mixer channels for that

BIA has a mono output - so could go into the wasp and then into the eoc

c-sl has 2 halves - again needing sub-mixing = 2 channels - and possibly a stereo filter (doepfer wasp is great & cheap, but mono - maybe 2 of these or add another mono filter or add a stereo filter) - again probably wants another 2 eoc channels

the multi-fx, which I'd replace with an fx aid pro, wants a stereo send/return...

4 I wouldn't worry about a noise source to start with - get one in the future if you need one

5 if you can find reasonably priced mutable modules used (and you can, if you look hard enough, at least some of them) then buy those - otherwise there are some full sized mutable which means they maintain the ergonimics - which is one of mutables strong points - Aftrer Later Audio for example

6 add up all the patch points and divide by 2... a 1/4 to a 3rd of them stackcables (or buy some passive mult module or headphone splitter type things - intellijel hubs for example) - this might seem like a lot - but you will be prepared - and you'll almost definitely forget to buy cables in the future when you buy modules at least a few times

yeah - I think that's true to some extent for most people... especially if you aren't moving the modular around too much...

I started with a smallish case (6u 72hp) and was travelling a lot, then moved everything into a mantis - and then expanded back into the smaller case - and now I am stationary and have 9 cases for a total of about 1800hp - just over 6 years or so...

there is no right or wrong way to do things... but you can learn from others experience and advice...

more utilities will give you more possibilities, but I'm not sure I'd necessarily remove stuff... I'd add more rack space, probably at least another 6u 84hp or 104hp - to house more utilities, modulation and filters - there's a lot of sound sources and effects modules in there and not a lot of modulation and utilities - which I'd want more of (and tbh will give you exponentially more versatility in patching than you currently have)

I'd consider swapping the erica dsp for an fx aid pro though - again more versatility - but I'd much rather have more filters, mixers (sub with offsets and matrix), vcas, etc etc etc - see my signature for hints...

Plaits is a perfect first module. Keystep or Beatstep would be nice addition for controller and starter sequencer
-- 33PO

or the pro versions - looking forward...

I'd recommend starting with a larger case - you will inevitably need it and the smaller you start with the sooner you'll need it!!!

I included the pedal comments to underscore modulation sources to sounds after the rack…but message received.

that's not the modulation that you seek...

and they're not modulation sources they're modulation effects...

the modulation that you seek is voltages that fluctuate so that you can alter things on modules without using your hands - kind of like magic, but using electricity...

ie lfos/envelope generators/function generators etc + utilities to mix, multiply and mangle them!

Hi Darrell

what sort of sounds were you thinking of? what kind of music do you make, or intend to make?

what case? or at least size and power?

what's your budget?

Jim

and the link to the actual public rack - not just a jpg!!!

the rack looks like a completely un-thought out random collection of cheap modules with little to no research having been done before hand

and the patch doesn't make a lot of sense...

the output of your quantizer wants to be patched into the pitch input of your vco (or vcos via a buffered mult) and the output of the sequencer wants to be patched to the input of the quantizer!!!

the sequencer needs to be clocked - where is the clock coming from??

you need to open the vca with an envelope - where is this coming from?? where is the gate needed to open an envelope coming from?? or are you just interested in drones? in which case a mixer would be better than a single vca!

no modulation???

no mixing - you have 2 sound sources, but no mixing - no sub mixing to sum the waveforms from the individual vcos, nor to sum the 2 vcos - so both vcos can be filtered

invest in a quad cascading vca - use it for modulation as well as audio!!!

the patchbay is superfluous - ie completely and utterly useless - apart from using more patch cables than needed in a rack this size - maybe in one 5 times the size or when patching between a couple of larger cases it would become useful - but for now what's the point????????

please take a look at my signature... read it, think about it, ask questions based upon it... at the moment you appear to be floundering - like a flounder on a slab waiting to be filleted - not in the sea where it can swim!!!

EDITED Dec 23rd 2022, 20:31

Thanks Jim… I probably should have mentioned I have 2 korg sq1 sequencers and an additional external mixer. I also have a set of utilities (VCA’s Attenuators, LPG passive multiple, micro mixer) from tid bit audio that float around as needed.

usually a good idea - as much info as possible as simply as possible is usually best...

no idea what the tib bit audio thing is could you post a link?

Of coarse I’m trying to be space and cost conscious, and want to get the biggest bang of sonic options for the buck. I can’t be alone in that quest.

probably not but it's a juggling act... the formula in my signature generally gives the most versatility for the least cash, though and scales well from the smallest to the largest modular synths

For modulation sources. I think there’s a lot of possibilities with ochd, swn, maths, rnd…

yes and you need multiples of these - and ways of mixing them together and attenuating and inverting and modulating them...

combining synced, unsynced and a tiny bit of random together in varying ratios gives better modulation than any one of these alone and often they need attenuating and (possibly) inverting

and I can record modulation to morphagene.

but them you can't use it for what it excels at - audio manipulation

The sg1 can also offer modulation as well as the mutable instruments ears clone, Byxa. I also have a berhinger crave cowering nearby, and a couple pedals…microcosm, two stereo loopers and the new boss slice.

do you mean sq1, not sg1? (that's an old sci-fi tv show!!! which could of course be used for modulation)

and the pedals aren't really modulation sources!!! and I don't see anything for interfacing with these - or do you find they work well at modular levels - I have some pedals that do and some that don't...

But I hear you. More utilities!

good... you got the point...

sound sources, modulation sources and sound modifiers are just what they are - utilities are possiblilities!!!

& the link to your public rack because jpgs are shit - now we can mouseover and click-through!!!

you are trying to do too much in too small a case with too little in the way of support modules - it's a schoolboy mistake relating to not going through enough newbie rack posts (ie lack of research) same as not linking the rack above!!!

too many sound sources, too many sound modifiers, too little in the way of modulation or utilities... these are the important bits in modular... mixing looks like an oversight that's been "fixed" at the last minute without any thought - I must have a mixer and I only have 6hp left, what will fit... no vcas, how are you intending to play this (generate pitch and gates for notes? there's no midi->cv module or sequencer(s)

don't get me wrong all these modules would be great together in a much larger case with the support modules to actually support them!!! add at least another row - or much better 2 to make space for these essential modules or throw most of this out and start again around at most 2 voices...

see my signature for some hints on how to get a versatile modular that will keep you engaged for less cash

EDITED Dec 23rd 2022, 00:28

lots of big modules - not a lot of case space - if you like ergonomics and want all these modules I'd say just get a bigger case (104hp either 6u or 9u) so there's some space left over for future modules - my guess is that the verbos cv processor seems like it's enough for now, in the future you'll want more utilities - doepfer make a lot of ergonomic utilities for reasonable prices

also seems like too little in the way of 'voices' for 6u - I'd probably want to squeeze in another one somewhere - again bigger case - tbh I'd probably switch the rcd, penrose, permutation and clock modules out for a pams... it'll cover all of them and save a few hp...
which will leave a bit of space for a sub-mixer...

personally I'd want more vcas - and definitely consider swapping out the verbos envelope - 2 big, there are plenty of smaller envelope generators with good enough ergonomics that are much smaller - and the source of uncertainty - for exactly the same reasons...

use a stereo matrix mixer (as I suggested on reddit)

The robaux and similar modules don’t create polyrhythms.. but they can create polymeters. #bigdiff
-- T0MMI001

all true - but a simple clock divider (as long as it has /3,/5 etc) or multiplier (*3, *5 etc) can be used to create a polyryhythm - so easy (and not particularly expensive) it's to expand/augment them - it is modular after all!!!

EDITED Dec 21st 2022, 23:53

It's running like a dream now!
excellent!!! good news...
It was the trim pots on the back. Had to adjust those to my likes.

yeah, buggers those aren't they - trimmers that need setting and on the back!!!! argh!

Thanks (again) Jim!
-- isolatediguana

I'd try on modwiggler/MusicTechDIY...

A sequential switch is used, for example, to channel the modulation signal from a source to several destinations dynamically by means of a trigger. You can also send a sequenced trigger to different destinations.
-- ferranadsr

Interesting, that's something I use stages for. I guess I was conflating it with sequencing.

So, would ornament and crime or a pams be more utilitarian? I know that o_C has a lot of different algorithms, and can have two operating at the same time, but I also feel like pams has more direct programming.

-- fretless19

stages is a great module, it can be used for both sequential switching and sequencing, amongst other things... the only problem with it is that it can only be used for so much at a time - only 6 stages per module...

sequential switches are also often bi-directional so you can switch a single modulation source between four different destinations and also 4 modulation sources to a single destination... doepfer make an inexpensive and small one a-151

EDITED Dec 20th 2022, 16:03

maybe... but only newbies who've bought without enough research/thought going into the process...

depending on what you want from it - I'm guessing melodic music of some sort as opposed to percussive (because of the atlantis & rings clone) then it's not going to stay that way long as it will be pretty unusable for that purpose...

how are you intending to sequence pitch? euclidean circles only sequences trigger/gate - there's no pitch sequencer or midi->cv module!!!

2 free running lfos doesn't really work so well - maybe replace one of those with a syncable modulation source

get a bigger case... you'll want it within a very short time and a bigger case now is cheaper than buying an extra case the same size or upgrading... & less hassle! A Tiptop Mantis is a good starter case - balance of cost/hp./good power supply/manufacturer reputation etc

Starlab is massive in this size case (por for that matter one double the size) - smaller fx modules are available and more versatile (fx aid pro for example)

no utilities - no mixers, no vcas, no attenuation of any kind and that's just for starters - there's nothing that's needed to support the modules that are in the case...

please see my signature for some hints on how to build a versatile modular synthesizer and then go and look at a lot of other newbie posts to see why this is not a good build!!!!

if the external modules can output arpeggios via midi then yes - all the mutant brain does is convert midi to cv & gates

you will probably find you want/need to use a midi merge box of some sort so that the outputs from both external boxes can be combined before being sent to the midi -> cv inteface

I think you've got enough sound sources - light on utilities though - this is where I'd add - they will vastly increase versatility

logic, attenuators, mixers (sub and matrix), switches, more vcas etc etc etc

I would only add another sound source to this if I was adding more rows

see my signature for some hints