All Posts

2HP Tune Quantizer. 2HP. - why? what are you going to quantize? I see Marbles and the outputs from that are already quantized - as are those from the minibrute - don't get unless you can justify this properly (so -2)

Doepfer A-151 Quad sequential Switch. 4 HP. - brilliant module - get

Ladik B-010 Bool2 – logic module. 4 HP.
Doepfer A-118-2 Noise S&H. 4 HP. - replace these 2 with kinks (-4)

Ladik S-186 Trig/Gate Delay. 4 HP. - ok - get

After Late Audio uBurst (Clouds).8 HP. - replace this with a happy nerding FXAid (-4)

Doepfer A-135-2 Quad VCA. 8 HP. - wouldn't be my pick but you will always need more vcas - get

Michigan Synth Works uO_C. 8 HP. - what are you intending to use this for? again think long and hard - do you really need 4 channels of whatever right now ? would a 2nd disitng make more sense in the short term - before the inevitable second case!!!

I've freed 10hp for you - amounts are in brackets at end of lines -maybe more depending on the answer to the ornament and crime questions

If you desperately want clouds - a word of warning - you will probably want 4 channels of attenuators as well for the cv inputs

EDITED Mar 15th 2020, 19:30

I would look at utility modules instead of (or as much as) more modulation sources - I've typed why in multiple answers here, on muffs and on reddit recently - use google too find out why - or find my posts - I'm either JimHowell1970 or Agawell on all eurorack centric sites (reddit/muffs/here) - but I would seriously consider getting Maths - see the illustrated manual (google it) for why

I don't really think that what you've bought is "heinously expensive" though, as that implies overpriced, but definitely not cheap - it's comparable to a decent slightly over mid priced electric guitar - and that still begs the same again (at least) on an amp and effects - and lets face it how many guitarists do yuo know with only 1 guitar and 1 amp etc?

This is due to the very nature of both the market and the manufacturers - the market is tiny so you are never going to get the economies of scale that are possible even with more mainstream musical instrument manufacturers (especially behringer) and really not compared to more mass market items

Most eurorack modules sell in the hundreds - a few sell a thousand, a very few sell multiple thousands - the Lubadh I suspect might sell a thousand, but probably not

The companies that do make them are generally small and based in the first world and most don't seem to outsource manufacture to 3rd world (although I think this is starting to happen more)

Even the economics aside - I estimate I spend at least 1000 hours a year playing with my modular (not including the amount of time I spend on the internet in relation to it) - as a hobby and I spend let's say 50€/week on my hobby (2.5K/year) - it works out at 2.50/hour - which is actually compared to a lot of other hobbies very reasonably priced indeed!!!

Intellijel umidi 3U

Given that the power supply eats 5hp and my planned design also exceeds the power specs by roughly 10 percent, I wonder what it takes to move to some external power solution, giving more power and saving 5hp. Has anyone done that?

Regarding the power specs: The Arturia reads 15V/3A on the frontplate, so that indicates the demand from the powerbrick. However, it´s only specified to deliver 12V/1.6A on the +12V distribution. That´s just half the amps... is this limited by the power module itself or is the distribution board limited to 1.6A ?

EDITED Mar 15th 2020, 14:55

My rack aimed for ambient generative patches has space for 31 more HP modules.
The modules that I want to fill the empty hole with is:
2HP Tune Quantizer. 2HP.
Doepfer A-151 Quad sequential Switch. 4 HP.
Ladik B-010 Bool2 – logic module. 4 HP.
Ladik S-186 Trig/Gate Delay. 4 HP.
Doepfer A-118-2 Noise S&H. 4 HP.
After Late Audio uBurst (Clouds).8 HP.
Doepfer A-135-2 Quad VCA. 8 HP.
Michigan Synth Works uO_C. 8 HP.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

But they cover 42 HP :-(

Please help me with which of them I shall choose.

yes, i´m getting the point about a bigger case, i changed the case
for a Doepfer A-100LC3 which is a little bigger.
But i really don´t want to get too much stuff at the beginning.
But again, thanks guys for all your modules-tips and help.

Hi MG,
I recently dipped my toes into modular synthesis and I'm looking for some professional advice before I go too wild. It'll be important to note that I'm coming from a background in tape manipulation and 4-channel sound out of Max/MSP and I'm trying to replicate some of those characteristics in a rack. Now, I know some want to ask me: why not keep using Max? But, come on! You know why. You and I both get that same buzz when we get a new module in the mail.

Keep in mind, I'm not a musician, not trying to be one, and not trying to make music. I'm just trying to manipulate tape sound spatially using modular. So, don't be alarmed that the only dedicated audio source in this rack is the Instruo (I've done that on purpose).

Pictured above is a long-term wishlist. I already have Pam's, Sloths, Tangle Quartet, Lubadh, and XOH as a small, yet heinously expensive, start. The idea is to use the Lubadh as the only source of audio and to run it through a Sloths/Tides modulated x-pan and then a Sloths/Tides modulated ADDAC to move sound very slowly in a 4-channel environment. All the other goodies in the rack could provide modulation for the Mimeophone, the Lubadh itself, and a future stereo phaser of some kind (the Modcan Dual Phaser's price is a little bananas, alternatives anyone?).

Needless to say, I have a few questions. Do I have redundancies? Gaping holes? Could I be doing anything cheaper? Based on this rack, where are my gaps in knowledge? Also, I know that Maths and Cold Mac are both crazy deep. Is both overkill? I know maths is semi-standard but that surveillance mode on Cold Mac is pretty cool right? Tell me I'm dead wrong and let's keep that cost down! Also, any recommendations for crazy stuff? I was looking at the ADDAC300 to suck power from the Xpan and make it go nuts and that ERD unit that lights incense because cool reasons. Let's bring that cost right back up!

I've been creeping around these boards for a bit now and I know on everyone's first rack they ask about redundancies, gaping holes, and price. All great questions! With that in mind my biggest question is (admittedly my most obnoxious): What other questions should I be asking myself and you guys?

I'm psyched and nervous to be posting, but definitely more psyched than nervous to be hearing from people! Thanks any/everyone!

-nm

You need a MN Mineophon :>

EDITED Mar 15th 2020, 02:55

Yes, you’re right, 60hp everything. Thank you so much for taking the time to give that comprehensive answer! That’s really helpful. I don’t know who John Surman is, I’ll check it out.

That's great, thanks so much for taking the time for the clarification. I will definitely check out starting with a Mantis case and a Marbles. And I'm glad I joined this website.

I'm presuming that these are all 60 hp Moog skiffs, and you're using the existing ones that came with the DFAM and M32.

I wouldn't make the third one yet another voice. Instead, consider what's in the two Moog patchables: sequencers, VCOs, VCFs, etc. Now...what are those synths lacking?

First up, some clock modulation could get those sequencers to behave in some rather complex ways. Logic could be useful here, too.

Another thing the 60 hp Moogs lack is a comprehensive selection of modulation sources. Adding a Batumi and a Zadar here would blow that limitation away, though...and do so in only 26 hp, provided you include their expanders.

Now, that Chronoblob2...good choice, but you'll want to exploit its feedback path insert. Some simple bandpass filtering in there could be fun to get the delays to degrade in an unexpected manner...or a mono reverb, perhaps, to turn the delays into a blurry ambient wash. In either case, using something 4 hp and smaller should be fine due to the case limitations.

Mixing...mmm, nah. The Moogs output line level, so you're probably better off with an outboard mixer that can also handle your sax pickup. By putting all of the level controls on the same mixer, you can get a better handle on your balance between the synths and your horn, plus you can then globally process the overall mix with ease.

I'm also presuming you're aiming at something of a John Surman sort of thing here, btw...not exactly easy to replicate, since Surman used EMS synths as a rule, and those have a very different sonic character than Moog stuff.

I’m interested in something very immediate to improvise with and flexible for some psychedelic beats and melodies and drones. I planning to make sound environments that are quick to tweak and change while i play saxophone over it. Any advice from more knowledgeable community members?

Klavis Twin Waves please!

I second all of the advice given above. I'm pretty new to this too, but the guidance to plan for another/bigger case and add some utilities and modulation sources has been invaluable to my experience. I've got the X1L3 Shard and a Schlappi Engineering Interstellar Radio, and the possibilities become so much greater with a system expanded with basic plumbing and modulation. For a case this small, you might find some use for a Pique (micro Mutable Instruments Peaks clone), which offers two LFOs, envelope generators, drum sounds, randomness, etc. in 4hp.
Have fun and good luck!

Expert Sleepers Little Mikey - phantom power and combination xlr/trs input - MSRP: UK £129, US $160 (exclusive of sales tax), EU €126 (exclusive of VAT)

I'm glad you appreciated my response, but really everyone else has been trying to help you too!

so don't be confused or unhappy - relax and enjoy people trying to help you - even if you have to answer a question or 2 along the way!!!

it's quite a common thing to ask questions in reply to questions, when you think the question is too broad and needs to be more focused more to give a good reply - the more information the better - "this is exactly what I have now", "this is what I want to do" , "this is the genre(s) of music I am interested in" and "this is why I want to use a modular effects rack over vsts" are all really useful bits of pertinent information for focusing a reply

I can see why you might take exception to - what are you intending to use for modulation?, but really it's just the same as you need some modulation, think about it and come back - this is the internet - it's never (fingers-crossed) going to be the most polite place in the world - but it can be one of the most efficient (and for that matter one of the least efficient) ways of getting information there is

tbh - the first line of my reply is actually meant to do a similar thing - make you think - is this really for me? in that a lot of people think that building a cool modular effects rack will be a cheaper way into modular synthesis - when really it's not - or that it's a way to get great effects - which maybe it is, but only if you understand the fundamentals of modular synthesis and realise that if you take out the instrument interface and replace it with a vco - you have a modular synthesizer

the rest of the reply I gave was pretty much the reply I always give - because mostly that's what's missing from generic starter racks - utility and modulation - and those are good modules that I have had since I started and that I use constantly 3 years later - and I spent at least 18 months - 2 years researching before I bought a single module

but it only gives you what and not why - answering the questions is a better route to gaining that knowledge - or replying to my response asking why you need modulation and utilities, for example, rather than just blindly buying whatever modules someone on the internet says you should!!!

Yeah - you do indeed have to start somewhere

you know I think those cases (anything under 6u /84hp to be honest) should come with a warning - "buyer beware not suitable for a starter case, unless you want to buy another one in a few months" - imo great for a dedicated and focused single purpose once you know what you are doing - ie to house a few controllers or a mixer or whatever

but anyway good luck and once again enjoy

Link works - thanks
There's quite a bit of duplication there

I would either get Marbles or Turing Machine/Clock Divider/Wobblebug/Quantizer - why? because Marbles does all these things - the only exception being processing audio - but you can use the random from Marbles to modulate the audio source instead - or if you desperately want to explore randomizing audio then get a wobblebug as well, later - so I'd get Marbles

I like to use a combination of Kinks, Links and Branches as utilties to expand Marbles (If you get one - get Kinks - you can get 7 related modulation outputs from a single source, with some self patching and stackcables) so I would get those next

I'd also add a Disting mk4 - as it's a great learning module, will show you the way to further modules, and will always be there to fill in when needed

I'd get a quad cascading vca instead of the matrix mixer (I'd get a matrix mixer too they are great - but in the future) - you may find very quickly you want a second one of these as they are so useful, for cv as well as audio - my pick here is Veils - it's simple to use and has a lot of gain available if needed

Then I would get Rings and Warps (and probably at least try parasites firmware on warps)

Then I would stop and see what else I needed - maybe follow disting - maybe a wogglebug NB if you want to use this for processing audio - you can't send the audio output through a quantizer to get it in tune (that's not how quantizers work) - it will just be what it is

Generative music normally requires a lot of plumbing (utility modules) and modulation - so you will probably want more of these - sequential switches, mixers, function generators, lfos, evelopes, lpgs, etc etc - for slowly evolving chaotic modulation the nlc triple sloth is hard to beat

As for cases - get a bigger one than you think you need - the tiptop Mantis is a great size and is usually the most economical case ($/hp) at the moment - behringer may change this with their larger case which is due soon, but the power may not be so good

Thanks! And thanks Lugia for the tips! I‘ve heard of Moffenzeef, awesome stuff.
I ordered this case
https://www.perfectcircuit.com/4ms-pod-60hp-powered.html
and you are probably right, that it soon will be too small. Argh, we will see. Gotta start somewhere.

Cool man - have fun - which case did you order?

Jim, i just ordered the modules with the Bastl and a bigger case ;-)
Thanks, Bro!

I am seriously confused with you all. How is this a dialogue from your side? I asked very simple few questions and response was questions about something I did not ask. Thus far big thanks to Jim for his opinion. I’m saddened that the rest of you chose to see something that wasn’t there.

I like the cut of your jib - you're quite right about the Bit One. A great-looking synth too, Darth Vader would have one for those quiet down moments, although he's not keen on vocoders.

I'll be building this rack out over summer, learning more as I go and dipping in and out of the forums here as I go.

EDITED Mar 14th 2020, 13:47

no that's a jpeg - you need to copy and paste the url

EDITED Mar 13th 2020, 22:45

Answering questions with questions is considered impolite.
-- vilmycil

Diatribe over dialogue, hm? I ain't touching this with a 10-foot pole...

I'll second a look at the Schlappi stuff...they've put out a line of truly ill-behaved, nasty modules that specialize in spectacular sonic wreckage. Another couple that might be worth your attention: Moffenzeef and Noise Reap.

Seriously...go BIGGER. I know the idea of some little box that obliterates hearing is sort of a harsh noise scene "thing," but if you take this on up into a more typical case size, then you can start to assemble something of a harsh noise "ensemble" under your direct control. In "I Dream of Wires" (probably the long edition) there's an incredible extended bit of Keith Fullerton Whitman doing a Eurorack set using only a pink-noise generator as the initial source and a LOT of parallel processing chains to screw with it. Definitely worth a look...

EDITED Mar 13th 2020, 22:33

Don't even THINK of dumping that Bit One, btw...those last analog Crumars have an awesome sound to them.

Yeah, I thought of trying to incorporate an octave switch, but the space just wouldn't materialize. At the same time, though, I'm quite used to VCOs with full sweeps, and find them easy enough to work around. In fact, you're more apt to run across interesting detunings without fixed octave offsets, so there's that "happy accident" factor creeping in. Plus, in both cases of VCO groups, I opted to have the Wavefolders act as "mixers" so that detuned combinations can actually do quite a bit more than just have detuning going on. A bit Buchla-esque, I think...

Hi JimHowell1970
hopefully this link works? https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1151024.jpg
I'm not sure how to insert a screenshot at the moment. I tried dragging and dropping one in several times but can only (hopefully) provide a link to a screenshot.
The idea is to use the oscillators, vcas, lfos, filters I already have in my semi modulars and incorporate them with random pitch generators, quantizers, wave shapers and a random sampler in a modular rack. I'd like to make more Krell self generating, less keyboard or sequenced music that doesn't use midi and uses cv instead. And I'm looking for any advice from people more knowledgeable than me before I spend money :).

NP
If you decide to go for a bigger case in the future - then also take a look at the schlappi engineering modules - I think you will like them

yeah, that is what i was hoping for, thanks Jim. This forum is awesome.
The bastl instruments -mixer sounds great! Didn´t know about that
I will also check out the Pam, it looks as if you can go really deep on this one....ohhhh

I understand

As I said it will make noise - which is what you want

I would check the depth of the 2hp mixer it may be too deep for the case (allow a bit for the power ribbon)

tbh I'd probably want this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/bastl-instruments-waver instead of the 2hp mixer - which I think would leave you with 2 hp free still - maybe a multiple

And then I'd just play and see what else I needed down the line, if anything

BUT just reviewing I noticed you asked if you should add another filter - and to be honest I don't see one

I see a clock module, a rhythm generator, a percussion voice, a noise voice (I'm guessing that you are seeing this as a filter) and a mixer

I quickly read through the specs of the shard on modulargrid and it's mostly a highly modulatable vco and recommends running it through both a resonant filter and clouds, but it can be used to process sound

So I would also look to replace both the clock and the numeric repetitor with Pam's New Workout - which will give you a clock and 8 channels of triggers/envelopes (so modulation as well as percussive triggers)

This would free up a further 6hp for a filter - if you can squeeze the 2hp LPF into the case (see point above) you would then be able to cram in a happy nerding fxAid - which will give you access to about 100 effects - some of which I am sure will work well with what you are going for - possibly including granular processing

Congratulations on getting started!
Availability of modules is also an influence of what modules actually get in your case
Take it slowly and have fun!!!

Here's some progress:

Answering questions with questions is a very effective habit here in MG forums.
They force you to think for yourself.
I have got a lot of ”questions” from Ronin and others that have been very helpful to me.

-- Rookie

Not arguing with the method. I don't think the questions Ronin posted have addressed my questions. And no need to pigeonhole me as a type either, I haven't said anything inappropriate and I've been a member of mg for a long time.

Answering questions with questions is a very effective habit here in MG forums.
They force you to think for yourself.
I have got a lot of ”questions” from Ronin and others that have been very helpful to me.

In none of my posts have I criticised anyone, and neither of your replies read like advice... Thanks for your input

Thanks, Jim!

Actually i want a noise monster in a small case with only a few modules to destroy ;-)
I need harsh industrial beats with a lot of noise. I used to play in a Noiseband but i want to take it to the next step.
As i said, i am new to modular, but would this set up work or do i need other modules? Maybe one more filter?

Answering questions with questions is considered impolite.
-- vilmycil

You want free advice and you're criticizing the people who are trying to help you. We get your type in here on occasion. They don't last long.

I wrote a letter to Ladik about my project and he replied immediately!
Here is his response:

”To make such thing properly (and in precise tune), you´ll need something like "starting CV" and "ending CV" (source CV in the beginning and target CV as the end value, both quite precise).
Imagine sequencer with three CV outputs (or three seqencers) controlling notes of your your chords (advancing sequence). For slow transisiton between notes you can use an slew limiter (lag processor).
Envelopes are not usualy made to be "in tune" (no precise voltage output useful for tuning purposes) because they are usualy used for tweaking filter (it does not to be in precise tune) and opening/closing VCA.”

The same solution as Ronin proposed :-)

It seems that I have to buy O&C.
I know some coding but have not practiced it for many, many years. But it should be fun to dive in to O&C:s code.

Hi JimHowell1970,
On top of the points you mentioned (and I agree with you) I had also realized that it is cheaper for me (in Italy) to buy the original MI modules.

In general, some modules are not available here or I should import them from U. S. so I will have to switch modules available at least in EU.

I am proud to announce that today I have ordered the rails for my rack!!!

Next purchase: wood and power for the case!

Thank you.

I'd want modulation and utilities - you may not think you want them now - but you probably will find you need them down the line - maybe go and do some research! this is where modular shines in my opinion

On top of that I would look at the size of the case and abandon it if you have not already bought it - get a bigger one - TipTop Mantis is generally best bang for buck, but the large behringer may change that when it appears - if portability is a factor, then the mantis is probably better - the new case looks significantly better than the original

However, saying that, what you have already selected looks like it would generate some harsh noise, to me

Personally I would not buy or recommend Mutable Instruments clones - unless they are discontinued, or are something like supercell - which is expanded - or I was going to build them myself
Why?
1. you have the space in a 104hp/6u case for full size ones
2. the originals are designed with ergonomics in mind - ie they are nice to play with - a lot of the clones - are not they are designed to fit in as small a space as possible
3. and most importantly - Emilie does not get paid for clones - you want more exceptional MI modules - buy the originals - the money goes to the original designer - buy a clone - the money does not - also MI support for MI modules is great - for clones non-existant

yeah you might save a few $/€/£ (and a few hp - but it's the same really), but in the long run is it really worth it?

EDITED Mar 13th 2020, 14:36

Hi folks,
i am new in the modular game.
Looking for a small harsh noise bastard.
Is this gonna work? Any other ideas for sequencing?

Thanks a lot.

you lost me at jpeg - post a link (zoom and mouse-over are really useful) especially as there are thousands of modules out there

It's always a good idea to understand that a "modular fx rig" is a modular synthesizer minus it's in rack sound source

I would look at more utility modules - the plumbing - the (relatively inexpensive) dull polish that lets the shiny modules shine brighter - I personally don't count Maths as a utility module - although it can be used as such - because it is so powerful

I always recommend Mutable Instruments Links, Kinks and Veils as a good starter set for this in a relatively small space

Expert Sleepers Disting mk4 would also be a very useful module - as would Ornament and Crime (both are swiss army knife modules)

A matrix mixer and sequential switch may also be useful

I would look at ornament and crime - the source code is available on github and some of the existing functions are similar/ partially what you want so creating a new one should not be that difficult - and it will do exactly what you want it to

Would you look at that. My lack of experience would mean there are concepts there I would never have considered. Thank you so much Lugia, for taking the time to pull that together. Simply put I now when people are more skilled than me and that is a rack I will work towards...perhaps I may, or may not, change items as I learn more myself but what a target to aim for in the coming months. Thanks again.

Ronin, yes, I love the oscillators but the fact is that I have relatively little experience in this field so very likely do not know what I am missing. How exciting that this is going to change over the coming months.

There's a big change coming in my overall synth setup. I have had a Kronos 88 for 2 years...genuinely great piece of kit but I have found it to be rather unfriendly as far as programming goes, so that is heading to Ebay to be replaced by an old Roland RD250 or 300 so I can keep my hand in with piano playing. My MPC 2500 JJos remains as I am so used to it's sequencing and drum sampling. Plenty of other kit accrued over the years will mostly remain (Bit One, Radias, JP-08 x 2, Prophet 2000 of all things amongst others), but I have a new focus of discovery coming up. How exciting. Thanks so much again and I will be in touch and get more into this community.

Thanks for your suggestions !
My project seems to be more difficult than I thougt :-)
I will check the manuals of the modules you propose and see if I maybee already have some of theese functions in my modules.