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Start with one of the basic oscillator "voice" sections (the Noise Reap one, actually...get used to all of the crossmod and sync possibilities there), plus the stereo submixer and probably the Linnaeus, as it'll have the steeper learning curve.

-- Lugia

Lugia,

I've taken your advice and gone with the Paradox, Linnaeus, and the Sub-Mixer as my first modules (along with an ES-9). The Linnaeus is certainly capable of so many things – just messing around with it is producing crazy stuff.

Would you happen to have any advice on particular techniques for coaxing out some beautiful sounds from this beast? Here's some sounds I got from Paradox + Linneaus (seq, env, reverb via VCVrack)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SLEcaCXXZsyFxDvDZ0YSTtEs9z3RD-FK/view?usp=sharing

Haven't used the other two, but I struggle not to use my mimeophon in any rack it's been in, it just sounds so good.

i have a dv and like it a lot, but it can only sort of be a delay at the lowest density setting. it’s mainly good for big washy tails and feedback. the sidechain is a nice touch. i use it on the distortion setting much of the time, and shimmer can be nice as well. it can be reflashed into a proper delay (Imitor Versio). i haven’t tried it but read mixed reviews - too many delay taps seems to be the consensus but of course that is personal taste.

personally i would love to have a mimeophon and think they would go well together. forced to pick one, i might go with the mimeophon just since it seems like it can do more overall. bigger and more expensive though, which is always the dilemma :)

Thanks, Garfield :)

Thank you for posting this. The man himself has switched it to private mode.

I can't recommend using the X-Pan as a proper final mixer. It does what it should, true, but this probably needs more inputs plus some easier methods for panning. Instead, try one of these: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ph-modular-mixer-black You'd need to connect to the XOH via a 3.5mm TRS to a stereo split 3.5mm pair with this, but that's not too much of a problem. You'd have to lose the Links, but it's probably more sensible in a small build like this as you can accomplish much of what it does with inline mults. Then, after the ph modular goes in, you'll have 2 hp left, and for that I'd suggest a 2hp VCA, which gives you two more linear VCAs specifically for modulation control. With everything else in there, that would probably button this up; I don't see anything else that jumps out at me on this build.

This might be solvable with some ferrites. First up, these: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-csb31-525-5 These should go on the DC out from the Meanwell brick...open one up, loop the DC out line around it a couple of times right next to the brick, then snap it closed. That'll kill any RF on the DC line before it gets into the cab.

Next, you'll want two of these: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LeaderTech/SA28B0071/?qs=70SGE8EoboRwQl%252BZe6ev%252BQ%3D%3D One goes on the ribbon cable near the busboard, and the other on the cable close to the module itself. This way, anything that CAN get onto the power line either won't make it off of the busboard, or if it's RFI inside the cab getting onto the ribbon itself, the ferrite by the module will stop that.

There's almost nothing left available anywhere is there... wow!

I sincerely wish you the very best of luck... it took me quite some time to put this together;

EDITED Feb 25th 2021, 01:28

Love Harvestman stuff half my system is Harvestman and the other Make Noise. I am desperately after Double Andore MK1 and Bionic Lester MK1 if anyone has any leads, I got cash waiting to leave my pockets and based in UK

It beeps and boops... however, a few modules are out of stock... damn shame

Depends, if you already have similar modules like Plaits or Rings and don't have the Mimeophon or Desmodus then go for the effect module. Picking between Mimeophon and Desmodus is more difficult which is why I ended up getting both. Mimeophon can do more but Desmodus is way easier to use as a beginner to modular. All three are great modules! I have Plaits, Rings, Mimeophon and Desmodus and now I really want Beads aka Clouds v2 so that I can feed it into Rings for the old muff wiggler meme.

EDITED Feb 25th 2021, 00:02

I've always liked the Mimeophon, but Desmodus is unique too (and you can change firmware on DV).

EDITED Feb 24th 2021, 23:11

If you could only have one of these which would it be.

Context: I have a minibrute 2s and am buying a rackbrute 6u next week and my first ever two modules.
One will be plaits the other will be a reverb/delay.
After hours and hours on YouTube and modular grid I have these three on my final short list. (Although I really liked the qu-bit prism too)
I know the practical thing would be to get a multi-fx like the Erica Synth Dual or the FX Aid XL but I am totally going for fun over practicality.
Which one would you choose?

You will note that A-180-9 has an unequal number of channels. 8 for the top and 6 for the bottom. So if you order the Intellijel companion 1U modules this gets a bit confusing. Channel A = channel 2 on the Intellijel, and I presume you lose channel 8. So you don't get the full 16 channels pairing 2 Intellijel with an A-180-9. If you need all 8 channels on every Intellijel you buy, then you need an A-180-9 for EVERY Intellijel module. The bottom A-F channels are wasted. Unless you connect the A-F channels between Doepfers and leave the Intellijel out of it. Another one of those reading the fine print situations. And another tidbit if you use the bottom six A-180-9 sockets... A = 2, B = 1, C = 4, D = 3, and so on. an annoying byproduct of Ethernet wiring presumably.

EDITED Feb 25th 2021, 03:45

You will note that A-180-9 has an unequal number of channels. 8 for the top and 6 for the bottom. So if you order the Intellijel companion 1U modules this gets a bit confusing. Channel A = channel 2 on the Intellijel, and I presume you lose channel 8. And you don't get the full 16 channels pairing 2 Intellijel with an A-180-9. FWIW

Sounds great. Plaits shines here. Buchla is alien to me but I'm always blown away by what people do with it. For patch inspiration I've used the Madrona Labs Aalto plug-in, which is inspired by Buchla system. You can get great patch ideas just by noodling around with it. Aalto

its wood

Power usage per Joranalogue Test 3 is
0 +5
10 +12
0 -12

I totally agree. 99% of the time I am going to set the thing to mode one (matrix mixer) which is actually quite intuitive to use having watched the tutorials and just learn the crazy button light show combo to turn on and set the right quantiser on each output for when I am using an lfo or sample&hold to create some random melodic sequence. Job done!

If there was a ≤16hp module or pair of modules that offered that functionality I would probably buy that one or those instead instead for the same money :-)

The AI008 is 10hp for a 4x3 matrix and the A-138M is 20hp for the 4x4 matrix alone (granted being all lovely and actually analogue!)
Then to have the same 4 channels of quantiser I would need something like the ADDAC207 which is another 10hp and cost the same just for that as the CVilization.

I think that like Jim has a disting that for 99% of the time has just a single setting (tape delay) in his rack this will be a similar thing for me with this as a quantising 4x4 matrix mixer and so actually quite easy to use (i hope!)

Please let me know if anyone has a really bad experience with the CVilization - although that might be a discussion for a different forum section?!

I had never heard of the CVilization so I checked it out. It looks super powerful, but I cannot stomach all of those hidden button combinations, and remembering what different colored lights signify, and short press vs. long press, etc. I know that I would never use 10% of its potential. That is definitely something to consider when planning your rack.
I'm like Jim. I tend to invest in modules that serve the function I use most in a multi-function module. When I'm recording, I like to be able to reach and just turn a single knob on the fly, not rack my brain to remember the esoteric button combos.

The CVilization is the same money and same hp as the ADDAC207 and is simultaneously not only a 4in 4out quantiser but also a Matrix mixer at the same time. I would get it for that alone without any other functionality. I know the 207 has other quantiser features too like CV transpose but all these things are compromises in a small case and for me it is about ending up with something fun to use that ticks as many functionality and 'oh i would like to try that and see what happens!' boxes as possible.

Eg with the Kinks module I would like to try multing a single lfo into all three inputs of the Kinks and taking all the outputs into all the different modulation inputs on the Basimilus to see what happens!!!

The Magneto sounds awesome and really authentic but also super expensive - I see why it is down on your wish list. I used to have a real roland tape space echo. That was such fun to play with!

I'd try to find out if anyone else with beads, the 7u intellijel case and specific psu (I think there were 2 options, but not sure) has the same problems

those intellijel psus are quite decent but are noisier than some especially at very high frequencies - which some modules may pick up - they are not for example suitable for video work

I wouldn't buy a linear only vca as a first vca - as it infers that it was designed only for CV and not audio

Veils overdrives very nicely - and is smaller - so that would be my pick! mutable manufacture also seems to be ok-ish based on new releases being available - so I'd expect that to be easiest to find, but that might not be the case as I've not looked

Doesn't modular run a bit too hot for a normal line level mixer?

most modern mixers should be ok - attenuators can helpful if it's a bit hot - I used a 10 channel yamaha mixer for ages and had no issues whatsoever...

The CVilization seems really cool. Mode one (4x4 matrix mixer) and mode two (4x4 sequential switch) particularly so.
Thank you again for the steer to look at matrix mixers as I would have probably not looked into this functionality as deeply before.
If i find one of these modes invaluable then I could always get a dedicated module for that next. What is super cool about the Cvilization is that in either mode quantisation is an independent and additional function that can then be added to any output individually! And best of all does all this in 10hp!!

-- andyblondon

I know of at least one person who swears by the CVilization.... I'll have to check it out more! the fact that it does lots of things in 10hp may seem like a good idea to start with, but often turns out to be not so great - often you just end up using them for one thing and getting other modules to do the others - as you always want the multifunction module to do the 1 thing you really like on it - disting is a tape delay emulator for me 99% of the time - I should get a dedicated module - but the only 1 I really like is Magneto - it's on the list but at least 1/2 way down!

I have a mixer but wanted to have a headphone out on the rack to not need to power everything on to just have a play with the synth. I know that envisioning this whole rack as a stereo channel being labeled as 'mod synth' on my console next to 'Lead Vox' or 'Bass G' is already probably flawed thinking in the long run :-)

I could just get a small Mackie mixer or the like and run the mix out from that into the main desk.
Doesn't modular run a bit too hot for a normal line level mixer?

The CVilization seems really cool. Mode one (4x4 matrix mixer) and mode two (4x4 sequential switch) particularly so.
Thank you again for the steer to look at matrix mixers as I would have probably not looked into this functionality as deeply before.
If i find one of these modes invaluable then I could always get a dedicated module for that next. What is super cool about the Cvilization is that in either mode quantisation is an independent and additional function that can then be added to any output individually! And best of all does all this in 10hp!!

The Malekko seems to be linear only instead of Veils and the Intellijel that also allows you to use an exponential curve. From what I’ve read the Intellijel can overdrive in a nice way, the Malekko does this too but sounds harsher. But availability is a thing.....already messaged someone for an Intellijel.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things to track down the noise.

One thing to be aware of is that if a module is dumping noise into the system that same noise can present at the output of other modules!

This can lead to a cascade of noise build up, the one problem becoming more amplified as more patch points are connected to the outputs.

The first time I encountered this it drove me crazy until I figured out what was going on, it just so happened that I had one module with a screen that was generating noise (as they do) right next to another module that was very prone to picking up noise! Who knew!!??

Also, I am sure you know this anyway, but for those who may not, check your gain staging.

Finally, some proper analysis tools can help enormously when tracking this kind of thing down.

personally I would try to keep functionality as separate as possible

so if in 6 months you decide you hate the quantizer, or just don't need it, you can swap that and still have the matrix mixer - plus I don't know if you can use CVilization as 2 things at once, which you will probably want with these 2 functions

AISynthesis, doepfer would be the matrix mixers I would recommend most - doepfer for ergonomics and price, AI for size

the only thing I've seen that I would combine would be vcas - but that starts getting quite expensive and big (4msVCAM)

do you already have a mixer? - if so I would try to do without the XOH - I tend to find output modules to be superfluous - unless you absolutely need balanced outputs or headphones - if you only need headphones - get a headphone only module! - otherwise a smallish external mixer (10-12 channels) is probably a better buy than an in rack mixer

the first 2 are definitely voltage controlled amplifiers!- so they can double as input modules - and potentially add some grit if needed - not sure about the malekko

most vcas, whilst technically amplifiers, have a max gain of 1 - so really constitute a different class of module - voltage controlled attenuators - which makes things as confusing as before as the TLA is still VCA!

I've got the older mutable veils - and I like that - no need to upgrade to the newer version, which I expect would be just as good if not better (and a little smaller) - so I recommend veils over the other 2 - but at the end of the day it's up to you: get the one you can find, at the price you want to pay, with the features you want!

First I would remove the DFAM from the rack to recover 60HP!
And I would choose a good Quad Vca: not only for attenuation...
Then it depends on the music or sounds you want to produce.
-- Sweelinck

That’s what I mentioned, it would be better to remove the DFAM to recover some space 😇.
Thanks a lot for the advice people, looking for a good quality VCA right know. At the moment three are on my wishlist in the following order:

1. Intellijel Quad VCA
2. Mutable Instruments Veils
3. Malekko Quad VCA (the scanning feature seems nice)

Yeah, big thank you to you, Lugia! It's really nice, but also a little beast for me to tame. :)

The setup as of now is utterly amazing. There is still space left and I was able to patch up a full ensemble with thick Kick, nice HiHats, and paraphonic melody from the paradox. I'll try to sketch this up later after work.

Taking on your advice I might look at the u-he CVilization as a matrix mixer and quantizer etc etc to replace the ADDAC?

Thank you Jim,
This gives me the confidence to take the plunge and that this small system could work for achieving the outcomes I am hoping for.
You are right that i need to stay open minded and be willing to change the plan as I go but I always find it a good idea to have a road map too of what i am trying to achieve.
I have not filled my case to the brim with my wish list so there is still a little room for growth if i feel that there are things I would like that I am missing (like a TM).
What would be your recommendations for the matrix mixer and more feature rich end of chain module?
here is my current game plan.

MARCH Rackbrute 6U, Mimeophon, XoH
APRIL Plaits, Bloom
MAY Veils, Stages
JUNE Kinks, Filter?, Links
JULY Pamela's New Workout, Lapsus Os
AUGUST Maestro
SEPT Basimilus Iteritas Alter
OCT ADDAC 207

That van life is the real fun factor.

Seriously though, go slow. Don't spend your rent money on modules. :)

hahahaha is it bad that I'm starting to consider the possibility of living in a van so I can dedicate all of my income to modular? lol XD

Seriously though thanks for all of your guys input! Excited to get started on this journey, so many possibilities to explore!

Either way, welcome to the forum/conversation. I think we're all so used to people sharing their racks here for the sole purpose of starting a conversation and getting guidance.
Branches might be neat for adding some random variation to your triggers, and something like the Klavis Mixwitch might be worth a look if you do decide to invest in a switch. The Mixwitch does a few different things in a small footprint. I've been amazed with the sounds I get out of QPAS if you decide to add another filter. I may have overlooked it, but something like a Doepfer A119 envelope follower might be useful if you are incorporating external drum machines... Just one of those utilities I didn't think I would use as much as I do.
Have fun and good luck.

The manual says that negative voltage in the "frq/ph/div" CV input will allow an extended frequency range up to 53 minutes, but doesnt specify if all the LFO`s will react to this lowering of frequency, while mantaining the "90 degrees out of phase" relation of the QUAD mode . Maybe only LFO 1´s rate changes.

Phase and frequency in quad mode are preserved for the 4 lfo in slow speed mode.

Yeah guys I totally didn’t realize I was “displaying” my rack and I was only using the grid for myself. So I don’t really feel like I needed to give anyone “context”. But if someone is offering to help eventhough I didn’t ask for it I’ll still take it! 😎. Regarding creating an “instrument” that works for me....I’ve never really looked at my eurorack as a singular musical instrument. I look at my synths with keys like that but not my rack. I like euro bc you can do so much in a smaller space. I admit I was very very rookie when I bought most of these modules. I had traded a vintage analog synth for store credit and just started going for modules that I felt suit my needs and I think I did a pretty good job. I won’t lose much money if I need to sell something and get something else. Utilities were an afterthought and wanted to get comfy with euro before blindly buying them. My goal is to have some sort of a hybrid setup... half analog half digital modules with an emphasis on sampling- btw I run bitbox firmware on the synthbox for that. I was not going for a bleep bloop ambient rig or trying to make techno with a bunch of confusing logic. To me it’s a pretty cool workflow. I have plenty of cool sound sources that can be modulated then sampled, and also mangling audio samples from elsewhere. It’s like a big feedback loop, everything gets sampled then I can put those back through the rig or whatnot- morphogene cool for this. Experimental bass music is what i mess around with. Sometimes it turns into electro sometimes hip hop, whatever. Anyways UTILITIES- Jim you are right those are all very useful in any system. So wavefolder/shaper- I have the DPO with wavefolding, graphic vco I can “morph”, and Ofcourse the disting- guess you are saying a stand-alone wavefolding module for everything else? I don’t feel a need for a matrix mixer right now but can see it’s uses. I just Havnt felt the need to use logic/sequential switches at this point. I am fine so far creating movement with my sequencer and modulation. Attenuators for sure and I almost picked up a Levit8 8 channel one that had offset - what else do you recommend for this duty? Basic mixers- I started with that Doepfer mini stereo mixer but will prolly add a mixup or another Doepfer mixer. That SSF Vortices has a lot of I/O for mixing! Attenuverturs I have on a few modules. The 6 VCAs I have right now I Havnt grown out of but can always add more. But yeah I do feel like I can use more modulation sources. Maths, stages, voltage block, disting can be used but I want more. Any recommendations? And more tiggers maybe? I have Pam and beatstep pro. But yeah I have 44hp left in this rack and am focused on the small utility type modules now but am always a sucker for filters or analog vcos! Thanks for the advise!

yes you generally tune your oscillators and then the v/oct is added - if you want to change the root note you would use a precision adder or some other modules that has that functionality

Not shaking my head at all - this is all a very personal journey - especially not on module choices or number of voices or cases - there are no bad paths - some are just more expensive than others

you seem to know what you want and have some idea of how to get there - time to grab the case and a few modules and start on your journey - go slowly if you can (learn each module as thoroughly as possible) and don't worry about not sticking to the plan

This was my thinking regarding the addac:
I love the idea of quantising a sample and hold signal or a complex Lfo chain to make melody parts. The bloom seems to quantise to scale but not to key (I am probs being dumb here and am meant to set the key by tuning the oscillator or something like that with the scale being comparative distances from the root) but the addac can also do cv controlled key transpose so the whole sequence can add a melodic cycle moving through keys that I could trigger using a 24 bar loop on the mpc to move between verse/chorus/middle eight and then round and round etc. I also would have 4 oscillators two in the rack and two in the minibrute to possibly have playing different rhythmic melodies in the same key. I also would really love a third voice eventually too (I know you might be shaking your head at that idea but I really liked the sound of the qu-bit surface as a slightly darker sounding rings type sound for some future module - perhaps for a future case? Then the addac will be really handy too)

I am not tied to the bloom but like the way it works of just turning the 8 knobs to create two looping patterns of relative pitch as a starting point and the whole fractal randomness stuff that goes with it. It also does all of this in only 16hp!.
The more I look into marbles the more it seems just too random and I am much more keen on randomness in pitch and modulation rather than on random gates and core rhythms (Drummer!) provided that these all then get quantised so it is all randomly ‘in key’. I also know that modulation creates rhythms too. This is why basically all the modulation sources I like are often rigidly clocked - that is great to my limited outlook about the maestro for example.

I think I would look around for a used metropolis - quite easy to use, very hands on and a lot cheaper than the usta

would you want too use CVTools with ableton? if so you could get an expert sleepers es8 or es9 and bypass midi and have an audio interface built in

it's difficult recommending sequencers as they are quite personal - what works for me probably won't work for you - and a lot of people construct sequencers from other modules, or use multiple sequencers (and other modules) together to form a much more powerful sequencer

using a TM in that way is a good idea - or any random/noise source and a sample and hold or a sequencer - all good ways to automate some kind of song structure with Bloom/Marbles/Turing Machine

for this use case the 2hp TM is perfect - you may want to send that through a quantizer - if so the 2hp tune is a good bet - inexpensive and small - I still have both these modules - even though I have Marbles etc as they are useful to have around

no one has mentioned that you don't need the big addac quantizer with either bloom or marbles - they both have internal quantizers - so i would leave that out if I were you

as for rings, you mentioned it was too pretty sounding - it can get pretty aggressive in 2 OpFM Mode and is also a great audio processor - especially with some feedback patching - which I don't remember seeing in any demos

RND step is just more sample and holds - and you already have a couple available - I'd pass on that module in this size case

I'd look at more ways of combining the modulation that you have - a matrix mixer would be ideal

I'd probably want a more fully featured end of chain mixer too

the other things I would consider adding would be a disting mk4 - fills gaps when needed and great for learning - and an fx aid

I will deffo look at the After Later Alan - thanks for the steer
I have looked at the ornament and crime, it looks amazing but it is just too screen diving menu driven for me and although it is probs great it doesn’t feel fun. This is also why I have steered away from the disting that I read is awesome too.
TBO I feel the same way about Pam’s but having one menu diving module should be just about ok.
I have stayed away from Maths through fear of not being clever enough to get my head around it and would rather go for cheap thrills... well... very expensive but perhaps more immediate thrills 😄
The stages is my ‘learning a bit about how modular synthesis actually works’ module and that seems so much simpler and more visually understandable to me than Maths.
I am a drummer at heart so really don’t get much more advanced than hitting things to see if they make a noise!

2HP's TM has maybe 90% of what the Thonk one does. Alan by After Later Audio is a 6HP version that does 100% (credit to @ajai for finding this), or if you wanted to expand even more you could get an Ornament and Crime.

Really cool - does the 2hp TM have all the functionality I would use or is there a much more feature rich option by stretching to 4 or 6hp that you would recommend?
I had been thinking about using sample and hold either from stages or the kinks to do something similar and was also thinking about the 4hp DivKid RND step as a future purchase to throw in loads of random randomness into the cv mix. I like the idea of being able to really control the rate of change without needing to use up more channels on the lapsus.

Hi Gabor,

Oh.....hoooo..... this is one of your nice special tracks. Lots of interesting and nice sounds, keeping the listener clustered to the speakers till the very last second! As always guided by a nice styled video :-)

The Theremin is an interesting device and you demonstrate that here very well, thanks a lot for sharing this video. Kind regards, Garfield.

P.S.: He, he, and yet another nice shadow play :-)

Thank you!

I’m looking forward to having another jam posted soon!

I agree in the question of: did you learn and/or achieve any goals you set. Overall, I like to set a goal or two for a jam. I’ll work on noting that for the future.

Thanks again for asking, and Matt you enjoy the rest of your day.

Hi EroGumby,

Thanks a lot for sharing your reflections on your own goals, it's interesting to read and might help one to improve hers/his own process too, very nice!

Sounds like you improved on almost all goals, that's a great result!

I look forward in seeing/hearing your next goals and improvements :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Want to achieve to play live set
Dark freaky underground dubby techno (melodic) / triphop lounge funky / slowhous. and sometimes Some extreme DarkCore.
Want two make it work witout my computer ! But like two have the possibility for if i like to do that in the future.

Not Sure about the Usta. Maybey start whit someting smaler and less price

EDITED Feb 23rd 2021, 23:02

Ears actually handles turning input into gates I think (I've never used it for this purpose), so definitely check it out.

The nice thing about the TM is that it's repeating randomness. I don't know how the Maestro works but let's say you set your TM sequence length to 4, triggered way slower than your drums, like /64, you then feed the TM into a high impact input on your Bloom or Marbles... voila you have a song structure as the TM adjusts how your sequencer performs, changes it a few more times, and then returns it back to the beginning state, slowly shifting this pattern over time.