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maybe an fx aid... it has both bit reduction and some lo-fi algos...
or just get a noise source and mix a little in either to the audio or whatevers envelope you are using to open the vca
-- JimHowell1970
That's kind of what I'm trying to avoid here, I thought of that way, with an enveloppe follower and noise source, but that's require a lot of modules and a lot of patching.
Not really... it only needs a 2 channel mixer & the noise source on top of what you already have (& you may already have the mixer) send the envelope from the black sequencer that you are using to open your vca and send it to a small mixer instead, also send the noise source to this mmixer, send the mix of the envelope and the noise to the vca instead of the envelope...
& both a basic noise source and plenty of basic mixers are kind of useful in the context of any modular synthesizer...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
For the small system I'm crafting around my Mavis and some TipTop x Buchla modules, I have around 10hp to dedicate to random modulation. This rack is geared toward 1-voice experimental sound creation, think generative krell patches. I want to try to keep everything relatively knob-per-function; I understand that things like Ornament_Crime and Disting EX are super powerful and can do almost whatever I want, but none of these kinds of modules really inspire me in any way. I am a big fan of working within set limits!
With that said, my initial idea was to get a Make Noise Wogglebug, but after a couple months of planning things out, new modules have come out that look really intriguing: Nano VCV Random, SSF Ultra Random Redux, ADDAC Random Bezier Waves. I've also been told about MI Marbles clones, and I've found one in the same HP as others (though Marbles pushes the limits for me in terms of "menu diving", I'm still open to the idea for now).
What would you all recommend? Are the pricier modules like the URR and the RBW worth the cash to spend? Can I save some money and still be satisfied with a VCV Random, or find a good used deal on a Wogglebug? Should I learn all the ins and outs of the Marbles interface? Let me know!
*To note: I would eventually love to expand my setup to create a complete TTxB system, so my end goal random module is of course the 266t Source of Uncertainty. I have no room for one now, and it won't be anytime soon when I pull the trigger on a new case to begin that project. Just some additional info for y'all to see where my head is at with this.
maybe an fx aid... it has both bit reduction and some lo-fi algos...
or just get a noise source and mix a little in either to the audio or whatevers envelope you are using to open the vca
-- JimHowell1970
That's kind of what I'm trying to avoid here, I thought of that way, with an enveloppe follower and noise source, but that's require a lot of modules and a lot of patching.
Thanks! I'll check it deeper later, from what i've seen, it's more something like a looper.
It all depends on what you mean by 'texture'. Maybe a waveshaper like Fold 6 will give you the 'texture' you're thinking of...
-- Sweelinck
I often use the Erosion to create "shakers" from other signals, it's kind of working like a noise and enveloppe generator I guess, but with nice controls on the noise source. I've checked a bit wavefolders and need to get my head around what they really does. The Fold 6 doesn't look as something made to treat stereo signal but like I said I don't fully understand what it does.
"Erosion" mostly makes me think of bit reduction/crushing and other audio degradation stuff. The Data Bender is the big one here, but you said you didn't like the sound of the "Qu Bit" (the company that makes Data Bender) so I'm assuming that's what you meant.
The aforementioned FX Aid could do the trick. It has several degradation/lo-fi algos (like Shallow Water, LoFi Junky, etc.), and it and you can apply voltage to its SRR input to reduce its clock and get bit reduction on top of that.
Other possible modules would be the VoicAs ReduXer, or maybe something like the Befaco Crush Delay. You can technically patch your own bit reducer with a S&H and superfast clock/audio rate triggering. Another option are various rectifiers, saturators and distortion units, but that possibly sounds more aggressive than what you want.
-- teataine
I missed a word. I looked at Prism from Qubit.
Erosion also have a "noise" mode that is different from but reduction, but I guess a good bit reduction could do the trick. I didn't checked all the algo from FXaid and I don't remember these algo. It could be a good option to try, and if it's not working I still can use it other way. This VoicAs module looks cool actually! Thanks!
About distorsion, I think this will be too agressive and affect the whole signal, I thought of something that add on top of existing sound, but maybe that doesn't really exist in such a simplistic way.
"Erosion" mostly makes me think of bit reduction/crushing and other audio degradation stuff. The Data Bender is the big one here, but you said you didn't like the sound of the "Qu Bit" (the company that makes Data Bender) so I'm assuming that's what you meant.
The aforementioned FX Aid could do the trick. It has several degradation/lo-fi algos (like Shallow Water, LoFi Junky, etc.), and it and you can apply voltage to its SRR input to reduce its clock and get bit reduction on top of that.
Other possible modules would be the VoicAs ReduXer, or maybe something like the Befaco Crush Delay. You can technically patch your own bit reducer with a S&H and superfast clock/audio rate triggering. Another option are various rectifiers, saturators and distortion units, but that possibly sounds more aggressive than what you want.
A recording sequencer, you play notes in, it will play them back. Has rests, glide, etc., and 3 outputs, which you can assign to any of the 8 sequence slots in the machine.
Mostly surface mount pre-installed, so the build is pretty quick. Only issue I had was I needed to file the push-button holes on the front panel to prevent the switch handles from binding, not a big deal.
Toodee and Jim- TY so much for your in depth answers, and also helping me understand how better to think about my questions! Theres a lot of wisdom there that I will be trying to unpack over the coming weeks. I'm very appreciative and touched to be part of a community that is so supportive. I'll update the thread with any changes I make!
So far I was able to pick up a Plaits clone and Pams New Workout with a PX extender for $220 on craiglist which felt too good to pass up. I'm going to take the advice to bolster myself on the utilities front a bit more moving forward, as well as go as narrow and deep as possible on the current equipment I have
maybe an fx aid... it has both bit reduction and some lo-fi algos...
or just get a noise source and mix a little in either to the audio or whatevers envelope you are using to open the vca
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I have been thinking on a "generative groove machine" in eurorack with using incoming main beat or drums to creative new texture.
I've made some test with Electus Versio and I think this is one good way to approach this (incoming audio > QPAS filter > electus > VCA triggered and modulated via Black Sequencer > CEQ for eq and compression).
I feel like I'm missing something to "add texture". In the computer world I would go for something like erosion basically.
I've comme accross a couple module such as Noise Plethora or Hexinverter VCNO but they are more about noise generator than audio effects, and I want something that can process existing audio, and not add an extra source (saving space in the case basically)
I've found QuBit but I don't really like the sound of it on the demo I've seen.
If you have any recommandation of a good module, stereo, that would suit I'm all ears out
For serious polyphony, I reach first for my Access Virus TI2 keyboard hardware synth that gets me the best all around results quickly with dozens of voices, effects and filters. Sort of like modular in a box. I do have a couple of eurorack polyphony modules but getting them patched and sequenced to make lovely trance chords is sort of a pain and far more of a rabbit hole challenge to sequence in modular than my Virus. You still need a good complex sequencer like Vector 512 and a filter bank, polyphonic eurorack module(s) and mixer.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
With a bit of tinkering you can great an entire patch that runs from a noise source, if thats your thing.
I regularly put noise into a VCA and turn down the amplitude, feed that into the ADDAC T-Networks and you get a lovely grungy crackle, feed that Crackle into an Envelope Follower and you can get a Clock/Gate out of it along with an envelope slope.
Meaning you can adjust the VCA, the Envelope follower or the T-Networks and get subtle changes to the triggers you are getting.
Sloths is a great module As @geusensdriesmusic says, I'm currently using it to modulate Divkid Ochd.
Marbles might be a good starting point for a bunch of Triggers, Gates, V/oct and modulation (Just remember to modulate your Modulators).
2hp RND has planty of options for such a small module
Befaco Burst is good for triggers guided by probability
Noise Engineering Clep Diaz is a nice little LFO, Stepped and Stepped Random module that will keep in sync with your clocks.
Have you tried doing a Krell Patch?
Error Instruments make the Indian Reasonator, which you could think of a as a One-trick-Pony but I find it quite flexible for some background sound scapes. Filter it, combine it with Sine waves and wavefold it.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
I don't agree with much in this post but then I usually don't agree with anyone about anything in connection with music.
I think this is not such a big deal, if someone wants to try playing the electric guitar he goes out and buys one. Then he/she ends up selling it, end of story, or he becomes someone who likes to play the guitar. A basic modular costs something similar to a basic guitar and amp. Im not going to tell someone not to buy a guitar and amp. Sure a modular synth is not for eweryone, so my suggestion is get one, if you don't like it, sell it.
By the way my modular does not replace my awesome polysynths, Omnisphere for example, Pigments, Cobalt ect. Or my computer, I think people who don't like using computers in music production or sound design are living in the stoneage seriously;)
Maybe you really should have a look at NLC Triple Sloth: it's a slow to very slow chaotic lfo module. The slowest cycle can be 30-40 minutes: very well suited for slower evolving pieces.
Similar modules that might be of interest: Joranalogue Orbit3, DivKid Ochd, SSF Ultra-Random... and many, many more.
A basic S&H module - Wogglebug Smooth, TipTop Buchla 266t... - into a channel of Maths. Apply offset and attenuation, mix with another Wogglebug voltage... can be a super nice signal to work with throughout the patch. Wiggle some controls from time to time, change the mix.
Seems like you have a nice selection of modules to work with. Ask yourself, which elements in the patch you'd like to modulate over longer periods of time. Look at what you have, then buy some more utilities.
Maybe a matrix mixer, a polarizng (ALA Monocle), a sequential switch like the Befaco Muxlicer, more litte mixers, mults, logic...
As a beginner in Modulars, i would have difficulties to define my system as you mentionned.
I own quite few (Math, Wogglebug, Cloaks, Beads & Strakal Orsel, Skorn Orsel) & Intellijels, Behringer modules.
Any patch i do works on its own and can/may modulate, surprising me. I bought modulars so to fill some free hours on our radio calendar, meaning it would be great if my patches would start with some modules which would modulate and Change the normal behaviour of the patches, as bringing some chaos in it. I am not searching at all for compositions, more to develop a kind of improvisation machine which would play by itself, developping and ever changing sequences on a long period of times. (direct English written, not my mother tongue!)
As a beginner in Modulars, i would have difficulties to define my system as you mentionned.
I own quite few (Math, Wogglebug, Cloaks, Beads & Strakal Orsel, Skorn Orsel) & Intellijels, Behringer modules.
Any patch i do works on its own and can/may modulate, surprising me. I bought modulars so to fill some free hours on our radio calendar, meaning it would be great if my patches would start with some modules which would modulate and Change the normal behaviour of the patches, as bringing some chaos in it. I am not searching at all for compositions, more to develop a kind of improvisation machine which would play by itself, developping and ever changing sequences on a long period of times. (direct English written, not my mother tongue!)
Thanks a lot guys :)
There is quite a bit of stereo filter reasonance in there too which is lots of fun.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Has anyone else had issues with the sensitivity of the touch pads on the Swarm? It only registers about 1 in 3 touches for me in use, unless I lick my fingers.
-- chrisormitch
Gross haha
It probably needs thouroughly cleaned after being all gummed up by human secretions.
I bet it will work like a charm after that.
Electric circuits and spit don't play nice together
NLC Triple Sloth and/or The Hypster: patch all outputs anywhere and hit rec...
Like Chromat1c wrote: there's an insane amount of options if you're not specific about your system.
There are too many options to answer that. You need to be specific like what type of "auto generative" system are we talking about? We need more info. Are you talking about musical data that is being generated? Noises?
Maybe you need a Sequencer? OXi ONE is good at procedual.
Has anyone else had issues with the sensitivity of the touch pads on the Swarm? It only registers about 1 in 3 touches for me in use, unless I lick my fingers.
KFW was by far the largest inspiration for me getting into modular and I always find myself returning to his work to pilfer ideas. I figured I'd revive this thread to collect some more info in one place for later reference.
A 2016 version of "Generators" as a patch from scratch:
Thank you clwilla. That makes sense to me. I'm also trying to keep to a left to right movement with vco and Data on the left and moving towards the output modules on the right as my interface will be on the right side of my desk. Cheers!
Working on an exp radio station, we are interested to build a patch which would be controlled by some auto-generative music units, like modules which would interfere in the score of the patch, bringing uncontrolled & unexpected behaviors or on the opposite long term variations....
There is no good order for the most part, especially once you start introducing modulation. I'd say as long as your output module is in a decent spot you'll be okay.
That said, I tend to have sound sources to the left side of cases, with modulation or filters following. But overall, its just as much an excercise in "how can I make this fit?" than anything else.
For keeping the groovebox feel, I would also look at a Launchpad Pro. The Nerdseq is designed to do lots of cool stuff in tandem with the Launchpad for performing and general usage.
I still can't help but feel like traditional modulation would be helpful here. Maybe an Ochd or a Batumi? A Vostok Fuji? Obviously space is limited (as is always the case in a case). No hate against the Hypster, and I'm glad to see it still in here, but playing your modulation is a big part of what will make this different from, say, a Elektron box or a Polyend Tracker.
I agree with the person above that the Bitbox is cool for this, but there is always the option of pairing this with another sampler/drum machine for those duties. Something simple like a Circuit Rhythm or Model:Samples, or even a Blackbox to get most of the Bitbox function minus the CV stuff (but plus sequencing lanes separate from the Nerdseq). You can even use the MIDI out of the Nerdseq to sync the sampler and modulate MIDI CCs on the sampler for that "modular modulation" feel. Frankly, the Nerdseq and Morphagene offer plenty here for sampling while you get comfy with all this, so I wouldn't worry about this now. It's something to consider, though.
This rack is going to be used while travelling. A few notes on the choices:
I bought the ES-8 to replace a broken AC/DC. It's 2hp bigger but has lots more I/O, which I need because I'm combining it with VCV on my PC. Still waiting for it to arrive. Worst case I need to take my ES-9, in which case the Electus should have to go.
Droid will be there for sequencing and modulation. Still learning it, but despite my trepidation about the workflow, I'm starting to see the advantages of quickly creating something in there that is controllable with the buttons and knobs.
bOSC and Plaits(Ro'ved) for sound generation. I usually like Thermo Nuclear or Doppio for overdrive but added a cDVCA here, which should arrive together with my ES-8.
The Doepfer 8x VCA is there purely for saving space. I like Veils 2020, but decided to go for this. I already have Duatt+Vasat below for the knobs if I need to, or to patch feedback...
SHTH is there mainly to fill the remaining 10hp ;) Always nice to have a noise source, though!
the purpose of the rack is to be a live groovebox. A allrounder for live sets.
I intended the bitbox to trigger drums and also be able to sample own sounds to trigger later.
I thought to limit it to 1 voice for simplicity.
Depending on your advice, I changed a bit.
moving most utility to 1u row, like attenuverters etc
swapped maths with delta
Lainakea as main vco trough the (Ikarie Filter)
Ona as standard vco trough (Steady Fate Gate LPG)
Jolin Agogo as LPG or multiple
What is trhe idea of your rack ? Are you planning to live sample and resample in the Bitbox ?
Otherwise, I would actually use Nerdseq for most modulation duties, remove some modulation.
I would also probably remove the tuesday. You have a lot of sequencing power in there, and not many voices.
Also there's no filter.
What about adding a small footprint osc (Noise Engineering ?) and a filter (Joranalogue Filter 8 is very versatile) ?
On the 1U, an interesting choice is a ornament and crime, or some LPG.Maybe a 1U oscillator, that you could use for modulation ?
New videoclip.
Eurorack & motion tracking, perfect combination.
After the first video clip that was filmed on a tripod, I filmed this video clip handheld. The challenge was to make the blank panels move with the movement of the camera. I used a motion tracking software for that. The results are great.
Much respect for the software developers and of course the eurorack manufacturers. They make tools for us to increase creativity.
Subscribe if you want to see more videos like this.
tbh the SBH and midi just don't work together nicely when using (external) pitch and clock. Patching it with the patchbay however is a different story and really opens up the instrument. If I'm using an external pitch sequence (patched into f.i. VCO1 in), I like to use the internal sequencer to modulate that external sequence, add/subtract voltages on certain polymetric steps etc. This also works with midi sequences (using the internal sequencers to modulate your midi sequence).
The transport_on/off sysex files - there's also 16 sysex files to set the midi channel - will tell the SBH to listen to external midi clock (default is ON). If you send midi clock with your midi signal, this will override the internal and external analogue clock (if patched). ou can also filter out any midi clock related messages in your DAW or midi device.
To use the internal sequencers, the PLAY button must be enabled. With the EG button lit and only when the sequencers advance, it will fire a trigger and open the VCA. If you patch the CLOCK output into TRIGGER leaving midi clock running, it will trigger the EG on every 16th note. If you pull out the CLOCK patch cable, the EG returns to being triggered by the sequencers.
Default is OR logic, so it will trigger on any step SEQ1 or SEQ2 advances. There's also an optional XOR setting (midi cc113: 0-63 = OR, 64-127 = XOR).
If you want to use those sysex files: use something like sysex librarian. It's fairly straightforward: select the correct midi output, load the sysexfile and run it. The connected midi divice should automatically receive the incoming data.
Hello Subharmonicon wizards,
I prefer controlling the pitch of my Subharmonicon with external MIDI instead of the internal sequencers. While doing this, I hav , or else the envelopes won't trigger. However, now I feel like I'm wasting a pair of great 4-step sequencers here that I could use to control other parameters. Ideally, I would like to clock the sequencers with the MIDI clock or an external analog clock signal, but without the resulting trigger overriding or otherwise interfering with my MIDI sequence. Currently, when Play is lit, the internal sequencers advance, but my external sequence doesn't get through. When Play is unlit, the external sequence goes through, but the internal sequencers don't advance. Damned/mildly inconvenienced if I do it, damned/mildly inconvenienced if I don't.
Does anyone have a solution for this? There are two SysEx files at the Moog website, labeled subharmonicon_seq_transport_on / off, respectively, but the forum page with instructions or comments on their exact workings does not exist anymore. Does anyone know if these could help? Is there another way to hack it?
I prefer controlling the pitch of my Subharmonicon with external MIDI instead of the internal sequencers. While doing this, I have to have the Play button unlit, or else the envelopes won't trigger. However, now I feel like I'm wasting a pair of great 4-step sequencers here that I could use to control other parameters. Ideally, I would like to clock the sequencers with the MIDI clock or an external analog clock signal, but without the resulting trigger overriding or otherwise interfering with my MIDI sequence. Currently, when Play is lit, the internal sequencers advance, but my external sequence doesn't get through. When Play is unlit, the external sequence goes through, but the internal sequencers don't advance. Damned/mildly inconvenienced if I do it, damned/mildly inconvenienced if I don't.
Does anyone have a solution for this? There are two SysEx files at the Moog website, labeled subharmonicon_seq_transport_on / off, respectively, but the forum page with instructions or comments on their exact workings does not exist anymore. Does anyone know if these could help? Is there another way to hack it?
That Vermona module is huge. I'm not saying it's a bad choice, but unless it's the main thing you want, it's taking up a lot of space in this smaller rack. Maybe take a look at the Muxslicer for something with a similar vibe that takes up less space.
I'll look into that one. I'm still a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of sequencers, and not 100% certain what I'm looking for in that category. The larger footprint isn’t a problem for me - this is a fun hobby, so I'm not against buying a larger case eventually (once I have a better understanding of my wants & needs)
You'll probably also want a bit more modulation - LFOs, envelopes, and the like. This is what makes modular really tick. The complex ways you can move sound around are much more emblematic of what makes modular special than any sound source.
Yeahh that's why I left the empty rack space as is for now :) Just curious, what would you add to this setup? There's so many options, which is great! But I don't really know where to look because of it :P
-- JellyBeard97
a sequencer that can also do modulation- Erica Synths Black Sequencer and Winter Modular Eloquencer come to mind.
your setup needs a good complex modular sequencer! Perhaps get a Winter Modular Eloquencer or an Erica Synths Black Sequencer? That will really make use of your modular!
