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Hi TumeniKnobs,

Lots of fun indeed in this track! :-) It's nice to read the details how you came to this, very interesting.

Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

triplatt or shades or similar - but definitely links and kinks

adding veils too is a great idea

Data I've always kind of wanted one since they came out but they have never been in stock anywhere - I saw one in stock last night at a online store and I decided not to buy it - I'd rather spend the money (and rack space) on other things - I have a DC coupled interface so I can use vcvrack if I want to as an oscilloscope - and if I bought an oscilloscpe I would want to be able to see video rate wave forms and I'm not sure that Data can do that

sequencers - do you want a v/oct sequencer, a gate/trigger sequencer or both (separately or in a single module)? euclidean usually refers to trigger/gate sequencing
PNW is not so menu divey it's annoying if you can see the screen and does both euclidean and random quantized loops for v/oct
if you want more control over the tune you might want to look at Rene - but it is significantly more complex - other possibilities to look at might be klee (a very long shot - as I've never seen one for sale only DIY and not often then) and the frap tools usta (but note it is very expensive)

Please delete duplicate module's pages

The goal with this recording was to start dabbling in and begin to understand how I might use samples. I see a ton of videos using the Morphagene and you can definitely get some cool sounds out of that thing. A shout-out to aphew_goodman and his "meint ihr nicht / wir könnten / aber" track - that was also an inspiration here.

A few days ago I made a simple patch with the Piston Honda and Bionic Lester that quickly went to a dark ambient sounding thing. Loved it. Then I happened across a great bit of dialog in a Star Trek Voyager episode, "The Thaw", and I thought it might be perfect to try as an experiment.

I don't have a Morphagene, but I do have Pigments, and since the new v3 just dropped I had it running and gave it a go. I immediately loved what you can do in Pigments with samples. Spent a few hours tweaking, then I set up an arpeggio and let it run the samples. I dialed up the modular for the low end and some weirdness (thanks to the Bionic Lester's comb filter), added a self generating patch from the Hydrasynth for low-mids, a simple arp on the Pro3 for some hi-mids, and finally a snappy little wood-blocky kinda arpeggio thing on the Sub37.

This is essentially a live, mostly-improvised performance recording. It took about a two hours to get all the synths making acceptable noises, then I turned down all the volumes, hit record and brought in different bits in stages. There was some tweaking knobs on the synths and a lot of manipulating settings in Pigments as it played out. I did add a handful of additional sample triggers to fill in what I thought were gaps with the dialog parts.

The dialog is:
"Fear is the most primitive, the most primordial of biological responses"
"All we have to do now is decide how to negotiate with... an emotion... with a manifestation"
"When fear holds you hostage... how do you make it let go?"

Modules used:
Piston Honda, Bionic Lester, Mimeophon, Ochd, Pamela's NW, Quadrax, Quad VCA

Cheers!

Fiddling with the Resonance and VCF EG AMT on the subharmonicon (i.e. turning them up high) will create bird noises

Pass through a reverb pedal with shimmer on
Subharmonicon acts as backing pads.
M32 has a harmonic minor sequence.
DFAM just adds a soft swooshing rhythm

EDITED Apr 29th 2021, 03:21

is this a 'dream' rack - I'm not sure I'd want to play with it too much though
not enough modulation or utilities and 3 modules that are similar and large - probably better too get oone and see if you desperately need the others
if you are convinced you need beaks, morphagene and clouds - I would get another row for modulation and utilities

Hi Troux,

Thank you :-) I can recommend the STO without any hesitation, it's really worth it in my opinion. So go for it :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

From what I see a good place to start as I said above would be adding kinks, links and triplatt (these modules are somewhat easier for me to source right now) and just go from there. I think once I will receive my case and start putting it all together I will realise if I will be needing anything else.

About mordax data... I have seen it in pretty much every youtube video that talks about modular are there any other oscilloscopes worth checking out? I guess its more of a learning tool rather than a necesity but I can see the benefit in connecting what you can hear and actually seeing it on a screen

Can you guys recommend me a sequencer (euqlidean perhaps) that is not overly complex or menu divey but is different from classic hardware sequencers?

PS i will look into veils since from what I gather 4 vcas isnt enough for a rack this size

yeah I find I loose things like that though - would much rather have modules

True, true. I did see a cool video which showed how to make various passive things you can just stick in cables, attenuators being the most useful one.

but a lot more expensive and power draining

@JimHowell1970 - you're not wrong, but attenuverters are a better use of the hp!

Thank you, friend! Haha, yes we recorded two pieces with the Ensemble Modern (in one of them appears also Sarah Maria Sun, the singer from the video)! Very nice that you also like "that" side. I really appreciate your listening, thank you!

Wow! That's hardcore. The first thing I had to listen to after this was Zappa's The Yellow Shark - particularly The Girl In The Magnesium Dress. Now I'm listening to some John Zorn. You are keeping good company. :-) I have a huge appreciation for the effort involved in realizing this kind of composition. You all did a super amazing job capturing this piece live. Can't be easy.

Edit: Double wow! I was just checking out some of your other pieces on YouTube and I see my instincts were right on with The Yellow Shark. Very cool Ensemble Modern connection. And while I was there I had to watch Plétora again. That performance is epic!

EDITED Apr 28th 2021, 13:22

passive attenuators are extremely useful and inexpensive

I have both 2hp trim modules and some DIY ones from Pusherman

Anybody use the monome crow before? Interested in hearing what it does and how to program it.

EDITED Apr 28th 2021, 11:02

Desmodus and Nebulae don't have input attenuation, Batumi has no output attenuation. That might get frustrating.

VCAs - if you can find a new veils - then get that it's smaller and does the same job as the intellijel - and for less money - slightly different spec - but you seem to already have a tangle quartet - so I would just stick with that for now

Wavefolders - there are lots of them from low cost to high cost - I use a lot of the Doepfer ones for video - they work great

Quantizers - if you are using a sequencer, the chances are it is already quantized - so you probably don't need an separate quantizer, as Nick explained they are useful if you are generating the v/oct using lfos etc - when you have a lot of voices (I have 11 + percussion) you might find you need/want to make sure everything is in tune with each other (multiple sequencers and vcos) in which case a 'biq' quantizer can be useful - I have a sinfonion, which I find useful - not that you need anything as powerful as this now!

quantizers won't so much tame you vcos, as send them v/oct that is in scale - the vcos still need to be tuned so they are actually in tune with each other - you can either do this by ear - or just use a tuner - pedal or app for instance - the more vcos/voices you have the better

taming your vcos is probably better done with filters

Nice writeup on the STO @GarfieldModular, I've been wanting one for awhile and you've got me thinking about it again :) I'm going to give the Hikari doc a read too, so keep em coming!

Hi Farkas, All,

An update on the available review reports from my website:

• Doepfer: A-110-1 VCO, A-124 Wasp Filter, A-140-1 ADSR, A-145-1 LFO and just recently A-180-3 Dual Buffered Multiple
• Erica Synths: Pico Switch
• Hikari Instruments: Quad Switch
• Make Noise: Multiple and recently STO (just uploaded version 1.01)
• Waldorf: DVCA1

More to come in the next few months, if all goes well.

Farkas: did you bought your new (Doepfer) rack already? Hope all is good with your racks and you have enough space for your upcoming modules :-)

Thank you very much for checking out my website and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi FredFoxtrott,

Nice show, looks like you are having a good time!

For me this is quite special too since this is the first time I manage to be at a live session here on Modulargrid.net :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing your great work, enjoying this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi everyone: Saturday Night synthesis is a synth performance/discussion show I co-host. This week, we have three awesome live performances and are joined by Fetz A/V [Sonic Alliance]. We have a great discussion about community support and how to create with a praxis of togetherness.

The show premieres at 9pm (EST), Tuesday April 27th. Hope you can join in the live chat:

Timmy,

Glad my post & rack help. Suggest you ALSO look at some other racks (esp Lugia's) to get some other ideas of what coherent builds look like. I mention Lugia's because he's very experienced, has a ton of draft racks, and has posted a lot of "here's the thinking behind this rack" type comments.

Regarding some of your specific comments:
-- Triplatt? Yes it is good and useful BUT I find if I'm using it at all, I'm using the whole thing to do a task that could be done in 1 of 4 lanes in the 4ms Shifting Inverting Signal Mingler (SISM). Hence I'd suggest you take a close look at SISM and Triplatt, and pick which might be a better first step for your intended use cases. FYI Tiptop MISO is very similar to SISM and another good alternative. IMO a SISM or MISO adds a lot of power / depth to a rack with a small cost of HP and $s.

-- Links and Kinks are solid choices. I NEED something like Links right away; I don't need Kinks right away. So you might inspect the sub-functions of each of those and see what you think you need right away. If Mutable Instruments stuff is not easy to get, Links is basically a convenient combo of other easy to find things. Tons of manufacturers offer active mults; I definitely need active mults. If I wanted Links but couldn't get it, I would probably get Joranalogue Link2 and Add2 as a substitute. I do own those Joranalogue utilities and like them; Add2 can be an adder or averager and is a great small unit for some of my needs.

-- re: VCAs and QuadVCA vs TangleQuartet? I have no real opinion here other than I really like my QuadVCAs. You can check around online more for what people's favorites and recommendations are regarding VCAs. DO check out the Erogenous Tones modules--if you need a ton of VCAs or Attenuverters or Envelopes, there are some really good options there. On the tinier side would be the 2HP VCA. It really depends how many VCAs you think you'll actually use, do you need linear vs exponential, etc. For me QuadVCA is currently great fit. I own more than one of those.

-- wavefolders: I love these. The Joranalogue one is good, the Intellijel one is great, the Instruo one is interesting. Just depends what you like and how much $s and HP you want to put to it.

-- quantizers: to think about these, think about your sequencer too, and how you'll be managing pitch values in your system. In most smaller setups, it probably only makes sense to have a sequencer OR a quantizer. For example, run a few LFOs at different rates through SISM, run that output into Scales, and that gives you pitch and gate outs. On the other hand, if a sequencer is driving most of the pitch and gate info, what good would a quantizer be? For me, I wanted both, partly just from a perspective of having fun, having options, and learning both as control systems. That said, there are some interesting patch options that would use both sequencer and quantizing. That topic "goes off the deep end" into another thread me and Lugia have running... IMO the simplest approach here is having a sequencer you really like to use, learning that in depth, then getting a sense of what if anything else you need for managing pitch and gates.

-- additionally, MORDAX DATA is something I'd recommend to almost anyone. Hard to get one, but worth the wait. It helps me a ton when trying to understand "what does this module / control actually do?" DATA shows me things I would have never understood from manuals or my ears alone.

I think you're heading in a good direction. I'd suggest you keep up with more web research, and consider a larger case (as mentioned by others above) to leave you some growth / wiggle room. When you come up with a next rack revision, you can post it and we'll help you troubleshoot.

Cheers,

NG

EDITED Apr 27th 2021, 23:12

Thank you Nick, this really did help a fair bit. I am going to look into your rack in more detail tomorrow but from what I can see I can REALLY benefit from getting an attenuverter/inverter module like triplatt + links and kinks to get me going. The intellijel quad vca also looks somewhat interesting, I might be able to exchange my tangle quartet since I have not even unpacked it yet. Do you think its something I should try to do or my current vca module will do just fine?

Also that wavefolder by joranalogue should help me create much more interesting textures so Im gonna try looking around for something similar to that.

I see that you have scales too. I wonder if I should get it in order to tame some of the oscillators since I would like to have an ability stay in 'western musical scales'. Qubit Bloom can technically do that too but a dedicated quantizer especially with such a simple layout should only help imo.

"Mainly I think I need more utilities but there are so many that I honestly do not know where to start."

@timmy373, I empathize with your situation! I got into modular a few months ago and felt similarly.

After a few months and several design iterations, I've ended up with this:

As that design reflects several iterations and a lot of input from various MG forum people, I suggest you spend a bit of time reviewing that rack and the KINDS & PROPORTIONS of modules in it. The main point is one of proportions:

-- it is about 30% (of HP) on voicing, e.g. things that make sound, plus sound modifiers like filters and wavefolders
-- it is about 30% of HP on CV sources, in this case a large sequencer (Vector) plus envelope and lfo sources
-- it is about 30% of HP on utilities including VCAs, mults, links/kinks, mixers, attenuverters, sum/diff, etc. What of that I'd really suggest for you is 4+ channels of VCA, 4MS SISM or similar (to combine / control CV), and enough mults / Links for your setup
-- the last ~10-15% of HP is effects and line out (for my headphones in particular)

IMO any small to mid-size setup needs careful balance of proportions of modules, otherwise it will be too "unbalanced" to perform well. My first rack was exciting, but too focused on sound sources; patching it I thought "all voicing, no score;" I had to up the proportion of CV and utilities to balance out and ultimately make a "deeper" rack.

For other ideas, you could look up Lugia's draft racks and postings, plus some other MG folks who you think have good rack designs. Reviewing good rack designs, thinking "why are they using that" and "what would suit me" will help you answer your questions.

I also agree with points from Troux and Jim above. All considered, I would suggest you add a couple "no regrets" utilities modules, spend a bunch of time with your rig, and let that process answer what else you feel you need.

I'm still newer to modular than a lot of other folks on the forum, so don't take the above as "final" or better than other people's points. But IMO I've recently been through a lot of the questions you're asking. Thought I'd share some ideas, hope this helps!

EDITED Apr 27th 2021, 19:57

Mainly I think i need more utilities but there are so many that I honestly do not know where to start. Like I thought I needed a clock for all this stuff but realistically i can use a passive mult and just use external clock sources eg drum machine to sync it all together. I think I need an euclidean sequencer of some sort since i like the possibilities they bring. Links and Kinks would be great but its hard to source anything from mutable here

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1527781.jpg?1619549109

This is basically what i have, easier to look at rather than names of modules on a page. The main issue is Im still waiting for my case which should be coming in the next week or two. So i personally am not sure what I need hence the reason I asked for help. Ive played extensively with my small semimodular setup and i fell in love with all the possibilities they bring but going full modular is a whole different ball game since "i do not know what i need". Its just I still have some money and want to make sure I get things that will help me understand everything a this set up brings to the table.

It's quite difficult to get some modules anywhere at the moment - there must be a used market in Russia though!

What do you think is the thing you are missing most and try to find something that will do that - and repeat etc

The thing is I already have the nebulae, echophon, surface, pip slope, desmodus versio, batumi, qpas and tangle quartet. The others modules I have fitted were the ones I think would be useful and/or cool. I do think i need a seqencer like varigate 4+ or maybe something else. I am not sure if I need to get maths or not too. The thing is I live in Russia so its quite hard to get some modules over here. I gotta work with what i can get my hands on

Thank you very much by the way. I really appreciate all this help.

EDITED Apr 27th 2021, 18:26

@troux is right - basically you need a lot more utility modules to get the most out of what you have got - the options are: throw out, minimise where possible, or go bigger (add an extra row) - I'd pick the third option personally

plan a 3rd row for now - and once case 1 is full by a 2nd case the same size - then you will have space for all this, the modules you need to support it and a decent amount of space to support further expansion - or some space to spread out the modules you do have so they are less cramped together

Mmmmm WMD! Mucho £$£$£, though I guess more than comparable to both bits of the Hexmix+Hexpander.

Ukugene ;-)
-- wishbonebrewery

Ha ha! Congratulations. You win the prize for best pun of the week. :)

-- ModLifeCrisis

In normal times we get a local Ukulele group to come and play in the brewery bar at Christmas, fingers crossed for a normal Christmas this year. They are loads of fun :)

Quick thoughts:

1) Echophon is no longer in production, so you'll probably want to look for a Mimeophon instead
2) Surface has a lot of detractors, so I'd suggest looking at Plaits as a comparison which folks claim can do really good dub chords
3) PNW + Batumi + Octosource might be overkill in a rack this size, especially without some attenuators
4) So, yes you could use some attenuators/offsets, as well as logic modules, utilities, etc. Your rack would be considerably spiced up if you dropped in some Ladik modules, c.f. 4 step sequencers, sub octave processor, comparators, any of his LFOs, transposers or something like a Cold Mac
5) A Links and a Kinks would do a lot of work here (as they generally do)
6) You could use some sub-mixers for CV and audio both (Links would help but you'll want more)
7) You have a lot of larger modules here, which is ok to an extent, but if I were you I'd look at removing one or two of them (probably Voltage Block but I'm not an expert on it)

My 2 cents

EDITED Apr 27th 2021, 17:39

Sadly, it appears that a user called @gridless didn't send the item (Tallin) I bought from him despite claiming he had on 17 March.
He appears to have booked a Track & Trace service from Netherlands, but according to the website, the package has not yet been delivered to them. That was 40 days ago on 17 March.
He claimed that he HAD sent the package and asked me to tell him when it arrives.
I have waiting for over a month just to give the time for the supposed package to arrive. Noting.
I wrote several times to ask for clarification and provide a tracking number, but I received no response.
Until this is clarified, I wouldn't buy from gridless.
Unfortuantely, it was Pyapal F&F so I can't claim the money back.
I left him a downvote on his profile.
If anything changes, I'll update this post.

EDITED Apr 27th 2021, 15:10

Thanks everyone, super helpful!

I think I'll make the leap for the coupe. Also will save the hassle of tracking down all the components individually and I think I'll save a few hundred bucks so maybe I can put that toward something down the road. Jim, your piggy bank concept is a great perspective too.

Thanks again and be seeing you guys around with more soon...

Very nice ModLifeCrisis, thanks for sharing.
How long did it take you, all in all?
-- wiggler55550

Hi, do you mean to make the video? Too long! I'm amazed by how long filming takes me. I'm using the most basic of basic equipment - an iPhone taped to a mic stand. The hardest thing is to get the framing right. It's a lot easier playing the ukulele. But in answer to your question - probably half a day, maybe a little more. Sometimes I wonder why I'm doing it, but at the moment it is giving my brain something to munge on so I'll carry on. :)

-- ModLifeCrisis

In the video it looks to me like all you see is what ever happened.
It looks casual in a good way, not produced. I like that.
The mark of quality I guess ;-)
So keep them coming.

EDITED Apr 27th 2021, 11:19

Hi ModLifeCrisis,

Interesting one and nice to watch your video. Especially the beginning I like, quite funny while you patching the patch cables, nice touch!

Yes indeed, this part of the forum is meant for your videos and sounds ;-) Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Hi Garfield. Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. And glad too that I found the right place on this forum for my videos. :)

:), nice and calm!

Lovely
-- jingo

Thanks.

Ukugene ;-)
-- wishbonebrewery

Ha ha! Congratulations. You win the prize for best pun of the week. :)

Very nice ModLifeCrisis, thanks for sharing.
How long did it take you, all in all?
-- wiggler55550

Hi, do you mean to make the video? Too long! I'm amazed by how long filming takes me. I'm using the most basic of basic equipment - an iPhone taped to a mic stand. The hardest thing is to get the framing right. It's a lot easier playing the ukulele. But in answer to your question - probably half a day, maybe a little more. Sometimes I wonder why I'm doing it, but at the moment it is giving my brain something to munge on so I'll carry on. :)

And the point of me telling you that is that I often look back and think I could have probably stopped at a mantis - but I wouldn't then have discovered video synthesis or DIY

-- JimHowell1970

;-))

boombipbass -- Larry Van Doorn, shufflephunk@hotmail.com -- is a fraud! I have a similar experience, only I paid for a module which he shipped to me broken and unusable (and with unoriginal knobs, and without power cable -- he advertised it as "As new"). When I messaged him the module was broken, he said "I dont accept returns" and has not answered messages since. A total asshole.
-- markylorenzen

damn, i found this post to late :(. Larry Van Doorn, shufflephunk@hotmail.com , @larrydekat aka @boombipbass sold me a future retro trax and Send me Nothing but some dead tracking a few weeks ago. all requests for my module, tracking or a solution have been ignored for weeks now...
@larrydekat still has the future retro module up for offer among others.

EDITED May 17th 2021, 08:33

it's a journey not a race

if you really like the System Coupe get that

and then when you realise that you are missing something you need or particularly want - get that

and if there's not enough rack space get a second case or just a bigger one take the modules out of the system coupe case and put them in the bigger case - maybe the system coupe case becomes a control skiff in the future!

total outlay now - System Coupe, however much that is - if you can find a used one then even better

total outlay in the future - who knows - but does it really matter? maybe a few hundred here and there - maybe more, maybe less.. it really depends on you and your needs and your level of self control...

if you are 'on a budget' & we all are to some extent or other, get a separate piggy bank or savings account and throw money in if and when you have spare

it's also a good way of sticking cash aside for the next case too if you follow the start small grow slow method - take the cost of your case per hp and multiply it by the number of hp of the new module and put that in the piggy bank each time you buy a module - when the case is full so is the piggy bank and the next case is paid for - without thinking about it

EDITED Apr 27th 2021, 00:26

why everyone recommends bigger cases to start with is that buying the bigger case saves you the expense of the smaller case and stops you having to worry for a longer period of time that you are running out of space, especially if you follow the other golden rule - "start small grow slow"

oddly though this does seem to be a decent fit for the size and spec

I started with a smallish case 6u/72hp and after 6 months when I only had 12hp free I decided I wanted Maths - not instead of anything but as well as everything else - so I bought a mantis and moved everything into that - and it was great - but when the mantis was full - 6 months later - I still had the smaller case as over-spill - I now have 6 cases and it's about 4 years later - luckily I have quite a lot of free space and probably won't run out til the end of this year maybe next - and my GAS seems to have massively reduced - I'm not really that interested in newer modules and especially nothing overly complicated or flashy - I have expensive modules

And the point of me telling you that is that I often look back and think I could have probably stopped at a mantis - but I wouldn't then have discovered video synthesis or DIY

Hey guys Im trying to put together a modular rig aimed at more ambient, dubby sounds. I have a dfam and a mother 32 already but really want to dip my toes into the modular world. Thanks

@the-erc sounds good you found what works for you which is key.
-- sacguy71

Well I have not actually got the Vortices etc yet, so I can't be sure that it actually works. I'm holding off since I don't need a eurorack mixer in my "studio" set up, and the live show is still some time away.

I can only agree in the Kickall -- it sounds good! The only thing I don't like about it, which seems to a general thing with Befaco, is having the sockets at the top and bottom of the module.

@the-erc sounds good you found what works for you which is key. I like the Befaco ST mixer my buddy has that I checked out this weekend for a small eurorack mixer. Also was impressed with his Befaco Kickall bass drum. Befaco makes great stuff and can do DIY if so inclined as well.

Dangit I wasn't thinking about that at all!! But it's a good point for @Lorenzzz94 too, make sure you check the depth of all your modules here to make sure they fit.

4) a Disting MK4...
-- troux

ISTR the Disting is too deep to fit in one of these palette cases. There's a Mylarmelodies video where he's got in held in with tape!