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Thank you everyone for the suggestions!

@RZRO awesome, and thanks for the tip about the dedicated output. I'll save on that at the moment to add some logic or sequencer.

Pamelas New Workout & Varigate 4+ (or Steppy) instead of Circles
-- 33PO

Yeah I was considering Varigate 4+ as well, maybe it could be more versatile. Circles looks fun as hell, but it doesn't provide too many options or modulation inputs.
I was also thinking about Pamela (or maybe Make Noise Tempi?) but I'm a bit concerned about the menu diving...

Look at various modules to alter gate lengths and/or positions, then Boolean logic to use those gates to derive new rhythms from the gate interactions. There's also some modules that come in handy with clock tampering, such as comparators (they send a gate when CV fed through it exceeds a given level), discriminators such as min/max modules, directional CV trackers (these send a gate depending on CV movement...up, down, same) and so on. Putting a suitable "library" of these sorts of modules together with a suitable master clock for everything is a big key to getting some wild hits, crossrhythms, and the like.
-- Lugia

This is honestly super interesting, I didn't know half of the things you have mentioned even existed. Do you have any suggestions for putting together some of these logic and gate combiners?

You could save space and money in your rack by getting an all in one drum synth and sequencer like Tukra
https://www.tesseractmodular.com/eurorack-modules/tukra
-- sacguy71

This also looks super cool, thanks!

EDITED May 2nd 2022, 22:45

@33PO you are welcome! It is on my wish list as love their modules from demos. Also like Queen of Pentacles and DFAM is fun as well.

Experiment to clock all three modular together

You could save space and money in your rack by getting an all in one drum synth and sequencer like Tukra
https://www.tesseractmodular.com/eurorack-modules/tukra

Gives you 8 drum voices and sequencer in one module not bad price either. Then you only need a quad VCA and few utilities.
-- sacguy71

Whoah... This is awesome. Thanks for sharing

You could save space and money in your rack by getting an all in one drum synth and sequencer like Tukra
https://www.tesseractmodular.com/eurorack-modules/tukra

Gives you 8 drum voices and sequencer in one module not bad price either. Then you only need a quad VCA and few utilities.

Using the VCA inputs on the SSF Vortices as Mutes by sticking patch leads into them. Bit of a bodge in the middle where I decided it was a good idea (it wasn't) to bring in the Error Instruments Indian Resonator.

Cheers for listening :)

Hmmm...first up, lose the Moogs. Put them back in their cases and on their own power, as they take up way too much space given the functions you get. Plus, you can mount the Moog skiffs into their own multi-tier stand, like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mother32Rk3--moog-3-tier-rack-kit-for-mother-32-dfam

Next, toss the multiple. This build is too small to support having functional space lost to mults, and you'll do better with stackcables or inline mult widgets. These really should be in larger systems, especially since you've got enough "real estate" for them. Also, buffered mults are mainly for regenerating CVs for distribution to CV destinations such as VCF cutoff, VCO frequency, etc, and there's not enough of that going on here.

The case is confusing...is this an Arturia cab, with a 6U on top and a 3U on the bottom, or...?

As for the pitch weirdness, try turning the coarse pitch control down to about halfway and then using the fine control to straighten out the tuning. Also, the Moogs have an interesting issue in that they're not 100% Eurorack-compatible, and they require one of these: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/erica-synths-pico-mscale to straighten out the issue. That 3 hp module shifts the CVs downward or upward so that they work with the +/- 5V scaling. Why does Moog do this? Well, Moog has a habit of being in their own "zone"...and in this case, it's the CVs that are the issue. Just be glad it's not the atrocity of the old Moog S-trig bus!
-- Lugia

Sorry I forgot to precise both moigs are not in cases, I have both in the dedicate 'stand'

My case is an arturia rackbrute 3u, 88hp.
I save money for a the 6u, 2x 88hp.

I don't really use the moogs Vco, but yes I forgot, I do random with the subharmonicon's VCO.

Though I've learn, a tip woth th 1v/oct conversion of the Moog. (not of the Mother 32) send the KB output of the mother 32 toa buffered multiple.

EDITED May 2nd 2022, 12:53

Hmmm...first up, lose the Moogs. Put them back in their cases and on their own power, as they take up way too much space given the functions you get. Plus, you can mount the Moog skiffs into their own multi-tier stand, like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mother32Rk3--moog-3-tier-rack-kit-for-mother-32-dfam

Next, toss the multiple. This build is too small to support having functional space lost to mults, and you'll do better with stackcables or inline mult widgets. These really should be in larger systems, especially since you've got enough "real estate" for them. Also, buffered mults are mainly for regenerating CVs for distribution to CV destinations such as VCF cutoff, VCO frequency, etc, and there's not enough of that going on here.

The case is confusing...is this an Arturia cab, with a 6U on top and a 3U on the bottom, or...?

As for the pitch weirdness, try turning the coarse pitch control down to about halfway and then using the fine control to straighten out the tuning. Also, the Moogs have an interesting issue in that they're not 100% Eurorack-compatible, and they require one of these: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/erica-synths-pico-mscale to straighten out the issue. That 3 hp module shifts the CVs downward or upward so that they work with the +/- 5V scaling. Why does Moog do this? Well, Moog has a habit of being in their own "zone"...and in this case, it's the CVs that are the issue. Just be glad it's not the atrocity of the old Moog S-trig bus!

Drum machine way cheaper than modular drums but if you want modular drums the key is really a good sequencer like the Winter Modular Eloquencer that is great for sequencing drums. You could get Queen of Pentacles or Quad Drum and have all drums in one module and use a sequencer for that part.

+1 on the drum machine. Given the expense and impracticality of drum modules + sequencer(s), you can get more done with something OUTboard that's capable of reading the modular's clock. Also, no DFAM in the main cab. It's burning up all the space you need for those "helpers".

Gonna wail on this...back in a bit...

OK...some of the earlier modules are gone, mainly due to there being better module choices. The tile row is actually a big help here.

TOP: This is what you want for an input. The Doepfer A-119 is pretty much the standard, and it not only has adjustable input gain, it gives you a gate out when audio is present above a set threshold, and it's got an envelope follower that lets you use the actual level contours from the inputted device. I then coupled a B.2600 VCO with a Dannysound variation on the Buchla 259's waveshaper, and followed this with the Odessa, like you'd mentioned. Veils provides the VCAs here, since you'll want that exponential VCA response for audio. Serge filter is next (good choice!), then Beads gives you granular methods for sound manipulation, and the Stasis Leak gives you mono-to-stereo chorus, reverb, and a tap delay. Lastly, the Cosmix gives you a stereo mixer with four mono inputs, two stereo, and an AUX send. Since the AUX bus here is mono, using this with the Stasis Leak is a good match.

TILES: I tossed the input/output module because it didn't have the capabilities of the A-119 and because the stereo mixer allows you to fly in your effects against the main output signal. The Cosmix has those as well, but the Stereo Mixer lets you separate your effects from the main signal for better mix control. First up, there's a send/return I/O for a stompbox to join in the mayhem. Next, I opted for a Temps Utile for your main clock/sequence generator. After that is an Intellijel QuadrATT for mixing, attenuverting, and the like. I put in a Stereo VCA so that you can have VCA control over whichever levels to the Stereo Mixer you prefer.

BOTTOM: Starts with a Ladik sequential transposer so that you can transpose sequences from the T_u or the Turing Machine by specific steps. The Turing Machine is next, with the addition of the Voltages and Gates expanders. Following this is an SSF Tool Box, which is a killer multi-utility module with a lot of functions that'll play nice in here. Batumi (with Poti) is after that, then the Maths. But after the Maths, I added a modulation manipulation section with a Tiptop MISO and a dual Veils VCA clone from After Later. Main EG is the Quadrax, which also has the Qx expander for some complex multi-envelope madness. I left the O'Tool in, but moved it to this row. And the little white sliver at the end is one of Konstant Labs' PWRchekr, which lets you have visual feedback on your DC rail health.

I don't think you'll miss the stuff that was removed. This build not only fills the rack out, it takes things to a higher functional level than previously.

EDITED May 2nd 2022, 01:30

These "breakable" busses are actually really simple. What you've got is X number of outputs, but behind the panel all of the 3.5mm jacks are the type that has a "through" that can be broken when you insert a cable. That's where your "broken bus" comes out, as the jack arrangement sends signals through until it finds a cable in the bus, and the connection breaker in that jack sets up the new "output" when the cable's plugged in.

Can you link to the MW thread @JimHowell1970 so others get redirected? I tried to find it but it seems to get lost in the stream of topics there.
-- zuggamasta

here you go:

https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=261524

Can you link to the MW thread @JimHowell1970 so others get redirected? I tried to find it but it seems to get lost in the stream of topics there.

Hi thanks @jim owell 70.

NP!!!

I got just sometimes some doubts.

-- 202kwam

then ask questions - no such thing as a stupid one - just stupid answers!

don't throw out your turing machine - build some more simple(r) modules - mults, attenuators etc and learn how to use a multimeter to troubleshoot - also might be worth posting high res photos of your boards on a DIY forum/subforum (modwiggler music tech DIY subforum or r/SynthDIY, for instance) someone might see what the problems are - you've probably screwed up some solder joints, or not soldered them, or have bridges somewhere, or put something in the wrong way round (all easy things to do, if you aren't experienced or not concentrating enough...

all the things you say you want are achievable - but possibly not in a 'small' case such as this (it's not that small, but it's not that big either), mainly as you will need support modules to enable you to achieve what you want - see my signature for a hint as how to build a versatile rack for the least cash

magneto is great (and by all accounts so is starlab) but they are very large and expensive - personally I think both the hp and money are better spent in a case this size - a couple of fx aid xls will give you more versatility for less cash and less space - spend saved money and hp on modulation/utilities

I would seriously consider going external for drums (if you can) ie a drum machine - they're significantly less expensive!!!

Web: http://stylobyte.net
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Hi thanks @jim owell 70.

I ain't thouht to attenuate as you said.

I don't want to patroenize.

I learn a lot by myself, but have still to learn.

The videos I watch was a must. Most of times I learn alone.

I got just sometimes some doubts.

please check modwiggler - I just explained it there for you - if you have further questions - please ask there...

Well, the DivKid YouTube video at 43:36 - Step sequencing is probably a good start...the DivKid video on this module is very comprehensive and well done like all of his videos

EDITED May 1st 2022, 16:05

Stages has an alt firmware that allows it to be used as step sequencer, but I can't figure it out. Can anyone walk me through it?

There is a post on it, but I can't follow this successfully. https://forum.mutable-instruments.net/t/stages-extended-sequencer-firmware/17493

I also could not find any YT videos that explain it.

Thanks

So I starded off with modular synthesis just about two months ago when I bought a dfam and had no clue that eurorack even exists. Once I found out I was instantly hooked.

I had no particular musical style goals in mind and boldly ignored most of the beginner advice out there while I built my first case and aquired all these modules. This is why my rack probably doesn't make much sence in it's current state.
Still, so far I'm having lots of fun just exploring and experimenting with whats there and about half of the time I'm quite pleased with what I can get out of this strange setup.

But now I do want to become more concrete with what I'm doing here so I thought this might be a good time to ask for some advice.
The general direction I want to head at is dub. lee perry, kemistry & storm, experimental drum synthesis with ambient capabilities and heavy effects are a few keywords.
I'm also using a keystep, sq-1 sequencer, e-guitar a regular mic and a contact mic for various acoustic signals / instruments.

the dfam can move back into its case for more space, the turning machine has only working pulse and noise outputs (botched my first diy build) so I might throw it out and the joystick is also kind of obsolete at the moment.

I probably need more drum modules, oscillators, filters, effects, some adsr and s&h.
I'd also like to get a starlab or magneto but I am not quite sure wich suits my needs better.
Odessa also seems quite interesting to me.

Whats your take on this and what modules would you suggest me to look at next?

(sorry for the long read)

EDITED May 1st 2022, 13:31

so do the inputs break the chain or the outputs? that's a thing, my brain does not seem to grasp.

if only the inputs break the normalling-chain, then the outputs could be used as multiples.
if the outputs break the chain, then one could use veils as a mixer.

i'm probably too stupid for normalling? :)
-- lauschepper

it's the outputs - think of it like a mixer

attenuate the output of the sample and hold before sending to the oscillator
turn the frequency of the oscillator down (you may want to tune this)
you'll probably want a quantizer

trying to learn modular synthesis on your own, without reading or watching videos or having someone 'mentor' you will make it 1000 times harder... if not verging on the impossible

EDITED May 1st 2022, 13:13

Some suggestions:
Stages & 3xMIA instead of Maths
Pamelas New Workout & Varigate 4+ (or Steppy) instead of Circles
Quad Drum & Plaits instead of Erica Synths Drum modules

Something like this would be more fun and flexible IMO:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1911726.jpg

If you're interested in synthesizing your own drum sounds check out Percall paired with raw sound sources.
mylarmelodies created a really amazing small system including Percall

EDITED May 1st 2022, 13:14

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Upon hearing the student enter the secret chamber, Zosimos of Panopolis had only one word: 'Before you venture into the transmutation of sound with all these devices, you will begin your spiritual quest by first experimenting with the Moog DFAM, young Padawan’.
-- Sweelinck

Eh...can't I just fuck around with this EML 400/401 I found in a dumpster somewhere? (not really)

-- Lugia

Zosimos quietly pulled Master Lugia into a corner of the laboratory and whispered: '500 bucks and you give me the address of that fucking dumpster'. Lugia looked down at the tips of his Nike shoes with a compassed expression... Zosimos: 'Ok 750, my Behringer Swing and a signed copy of Fifty Shades of Grey’.
But a noise was suddenly heard on the stairs: it was the Padawan running away with a Vermona DRM1 MKIV under his arm!

Hi hope you'll see the rig.

It seems I can do kind of generatives/random patches with my setup,

But recently, most of tims I've encountered issues with uncotrolled pitches which are to highs.

I don't really know where it comes from and how to fix this.

I'm a bit of EGO, meaning I often prefer to understand alone. But I admit with modular I have to wath some videos to understand better.

However sometimes has everyones got differents needs, or something's specific, I don't often have the time nor the vids that explains to me how to do what I have in mind.

So, sorry for the question.

What is the most common mistake that can lead you to have too much high pitches (notes, octaves, too high in frequencies)?

I understand it depends.. :)

I'm not still able to detail my patch. :)

So I chose, for randomness, generative modules :

Behringer 1036, (Dual sample and hold, random voltage)
Klavis Logica XT (Logic module)

An equivalent of the Arturia keystep 37 as keyboard sequencer.

A functions's generator,
Multiples,

A 'cv tools', Attenuverters, offset generator, mixer/Splitter

Owner of a subharmonicon from Moog. (Here I can say that two vco of the moog goes in the random voltage, Behringer 1036.)

To alternate with the first VCO.

The main Oscillator (Here I can say I try octaves
at lower trying to Chase those to high pitches, but can't really)

As well my Filter+VCA even the cutoff at lower the pitches stays high.

LFO'S ???
I still have not all the modules to go Generative, I already took a look what I need and how to expand or swap my actual rig.

Ok 'verbal'. So sorry.

Though I'm on session now.

Then I'll try to post the thing on soundcloud.

Thanks.

put simply normally channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output is added to channel 3 output is added to channel 4 output

but if you plug into the output of say channel 3 you get:
channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output is added to channel 3 output
& chennel 4 is separate

but if you plug into the output of say channel 2 you get:
channel 1 output is added to channel 2 output
& channel 3 & channel 4 are added - unless you also plug into channel 3 output in which case they are separate
-- JimHowell1970

so do the inputs break the chain or the outputs? that's a thing, my brain does not seem to grasp.

if only the inputs break the normalling-chain, then the outputs could be used as multiples.
if the outputs break the chain, then one could use veils as a mixer.

i'm probably too stupid for normalling? :)

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:03

Banged on this one for a hot minute. A few of the modules in the initial build above got dropped, but I think I've succeeded in building this out to a point where everything in it should play really well together.

OK...this is divided between your audio path in the upper row and the modulation/sequencing in the lower row. I added several things to the bottom row that allows you to SERIOUSLY mess with timing signals going to the RYK-185, also. So...

TOP: I put in a Tool Box, since it's got the best bang-for-the-buck in terms of little utility bits. Then I doubled the Plaits because 2 VCOs = always better than one. That'll allow for detunings, FM, and so on. Wavefolder is next, then I opted to combine the VCAs and LPGs into a single classic module: the Buchla 292t. This way, you can use some of the 292t's LPGs directly on the VCO outs, and you can also use the VCAs in there for amplitude control and mixing...or any combination that seems right for the moment. 860 VCF, then Beads for granular processing craziness. The FX Aid XL is after that, then I opted to go with a Tesseract Tex-Mix setup with four mono inputs and the master section. This gives you VCAs on each input for level/mixing control, two FX busses, dual stereo FX returns and a headphone preamp. At the end is one of Happy Nerding's new version of their Isolator, with transformer isolation for the stereo outs and another headphone preamp. This will help keep ground loops, DC offsets, and other crud off of the outputs.

BOTTOM: Starts with the Pam's, of course. Then there's the "timing mangling" section: an Adventure Audio step counter, Eowave Swing for four delayed clock outs, Intellijel's OR for combining timing pulses, a Frequency Central Logic Bomb for your Boolean gates, and a derivator to generate gates based on CV movement directions. This should be able to cause the RYK-185 to go into very useful conniption fits instead of JUST doing sequencing. Then modulation: Maths, the Triplett and an After Later dual Veils clone VCA pair for the "manipulation core", then the envelopes are all done by Zadar, which also has room in here for its Nin expander.

I wanted to make sure that you could wring out as many clock possibilities as was feasible in a small cab like this, given that there's that RYK-185 sequencer in there. Ultimately, this turned out to be a really straightforward fill-out...and in this configuration, this build should kick major ass!

Upon hearing the student enter the secret chamber, Zosimos of Panopolis had only one word: 'Before you venture into the transmutation of sound with all these devices, you will begin your spiritual quest by first experimenting with the Moog DFAM, young Padawan’.
-- Sweelinck

Eh...can't I just fuck around with this EML 400/401 I found in a dumpster somewhere? (not really)

Have to look into the Bear one. I am looking at WMD matrix mixer and other ones for next round. For now my 4ms VCA Matrix and Maze do a great job for my setups.

I recently ordered this module with the new silver panel, the black panel detail page has two panel versions that are the same as the original. I have a perfectly cropped image of the silver panel but wondering if I could just edit the black panel detail page, add the silver panel pic and avoid a new posting?

EDITED May 1st 2022, 01:28

I agree with Lugia to keep the SV-1b out of a case. I have a Moog DFAM and Make Noise 0-coast and while could technically put them in a case, they would take up way too much precious space.

Here are a few ideas/suggestions for modulation and utilities

Modulation:

1/ Batumi Quad LFO from Xaoc Devices with Poti expander - the gold standard for modulation and fun easy to use
2/Intellijel Quadrax with expander- crazy possibly options for lots of modulation, fun and easy to use
3/ Acid Rain Technology Maestro- six channels of modulation and ability to create your very own LFO chains and save for recall.
Great for live use, fun and wacky modulation potential.
4/ Mutable Instruments Marbles- does so many things and more

I have these and can attest to how fun and powerful they are for creating modulation.

Utilities:

1/WMD/SSF Toolbox- small module with tons of features useful in complex patches
2/Mutable Instruments Kinks and Links: tons of features in small module but sadly Emilie of Mutable Instruments decided to no longer produce any new modules so get them while available.
3/ Doepfer Quad Sequential switch- affordable for modular and works well
4/ Qubit Mixology- a really great four channel eurorack mixer with mutes, pans, sends and looks great and fun to use.

Hope this helps!
-- sacguy71

Some really good suggestions there and food for thought. Thanks for taking time to do this !

I agree with Lugia to keep the SV-1b out of a case. I have a Moog DFAM and Make Noise 0-coast and while could technically put them in a case, they would take up way too much precious space.

Here are a few ideas/suggestions for modulation and utilities

Modulation:

1/ Batumi Quad LFO from Xaoc Devices with Poti expander - the gold standard for modulation and fun easy to use
2/Intellijel Quadrax with expander- crazy possibly options for lots of modulation, fun and easy to use
3/ Acid Rain Technology Maestro- six channels of modulation and ability to create your very own LFO chains and save for recall.
Great for live use, fun and wacky modulation potential.
4/ Mutable Instruments Marbles- does so many things and more

I have these and can attest to how fun and powerful they are for creating modulation.

Utilities:

1/WMD/SSF Toolbox- small module with tons of features useful in complex patches
2/Mutable Instruments Kinks and Links: tons of features in small module but sadly Emilie of Mutable Instruments decided to no longer produce any new modules so get them while available.
3/ Doepfer Quad Sequential switch- affordable for modular and works well
4/ Qubit Mixology- a really great four channel eurorack mixer with mutes, pans, sends and looks great and fun to use.

Hope this helps!

a short tuto of these possibilities with the EME of Winter Modular

thank you!

Thanks for the replies. I intend to buy another case and move the sv1-b there and add other modules, but for now I just want to fill that space with utilities and modulation. Be much appreciated if you guys could throw in some suggestions.

I think its new, or at least I've been missing it all this time too cos i only spotted it the other week.

No! All this time I have never noticed that. Thanks!

I'd like to add Dreadbox Utopia

because tho it's a bit packed and fiddly

it offers so much bang on 10 HP for the Buck of around 100€, it can be:

• 4 attenuverters
• mixer (4 to 3)
• buffered mult
• offset generator
• triangle lfo
• pulse (or clock) generator

and possibly more.

EDITED Apr 30th 2022, 09:27

Upon hearing the student enter the secret chamber, Zosimos of Panopolis had only one word: 'Before you venture into the transmutation of sound with all these devices, you will begin your spiritual quest by first experimenting with the Moog DFAM, young Padawan’.

did you spot the tick box on search to show other/unknown?

The modules listed under Other/Unknown don't come up under search when the brand field is not set. Basically these modules are separated from all the others. Can some mod fix this?

Actually, the best way to add space would be to put that Pitt SV-1 back into its own case and use it OUTboard. Right now, it's stealing space from modules that don't have power and housing. To me, that should be Job #1 here...THEN start figuring out modules for the modular system once the space is opened back up.

Ultimately, I'd suggest just going with an external drum machine, and then use some input preamps if you want to alter that with the modular. That's your "basics" there...kick, snare, hat, et al. Then use clocking from the modular to lock the drum machine to everything else. Use the modular to do percussive "hits" against the drum machine's background...that keeps things steady AND allows you to use the modular both as a synth and a sound processor.

Look at various modules to alter gate lengths and/or positions, then Boolean logic to use those gates to derive new rhythms from the gate interactions. There's also some modules that come in handy with clock tampering, such as comparators (they send a gate when CV fed through it exceeds a given level), discriminators such as min/max modules, directional CV trackers (these send a gate depending on CV movement...up, down, same) and so on. Putting a suitable "library" of these sorts of modules together with a suitable master clock for everything is a big key to getting some wild hits, crossrhythms, and the like.

OTOH, if you're paying buttloads of $$$ to get into a school, it would be an intensely stupid idea to jeopardize that with "Essay Pay Writers". Profs these days are wise to that shit and they also have tools to catch this sort of thing...and if you violate university ethics by using this lazy-ass way out, you won't be looking for Essay Pay Writers but help wanted ads for McDonalds.

Spammers are utterly feckless idiots. The only thing dumber than them would be using advice from a spammer. Like...well, THIS.

+1 on the cab advice. In order to add the "helper modules", you WILL need more space than this. My suggestion would be Tiptop's Mantis...one of the best values in Eurorack cabs right now.

A beefier sampler would also help here, too...if you need something that can grab stuff on the fly and then screw with it, my recommendation would be 1010's Bitbox 2.0. Not only is it fully-featured, you get an SD card slot for loading files to it via your DAW for live use later. And it works pretty well in live use as well. Morphagene and Mimeophon are also a really good pairing with that. But again, fix the cab size first.

Shifty or any other shift register module should be pretty worthwhile for this. What happens there is that you've got a series of sample-and-holds in a row. When a CV comes in and locks into the initial register position, on the next "tick" it shifts the first CV to register #2, and the new CV value is in register #1. And so on. By doing this, you can build up chords out of the arpeggios...or just use anything as a CV source. Also, this is one of those things where having some Boolean logic can really come in handy.

Exactly...I've been considering adding the RD-9, but I also know that the RD-8 required some hardware changes from their original to the "mkii" version, which I have. I'm going to sit back and wait and see if that's the case here.

It's too bad that Behringer isn't publicly traded. The shareholders would probably not put up with Uli for very long before the BoD retires him. He might think that "any press is good press", but when you've got pro users that are getting torqued off about this trickery (and a lot of other sorts), they'll show you the door.