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I debated this pretty hard for a few months and ultimately decided on BIA. I felt that I could get similar sounds from BIA plus a bit more variety in less hp. That's not to say Akemie's is not awesome. I would still like to have the Taiko (and Akemie's Castle), but I have FM sounds covered outside of the rack. And with the new updated Volca FM I just saw, I feel like you could cover your FM needs with much less $$$.
I'm curious to hear what others have chosen in this particular shootout.
Given space and price being no object,
which of these modules would you choose,
1. as a primary drum module
2. as a melodic voice
3. 1 or 2 with support from plaits drum models
I understand that the methods of synthesis are different.
Great track! Love the dynamics, the warbly sounds, and the chord changing sequence is excellent! Also loved that break at 3:00 with the formant sounds. That never gets old for me. The Nerdseq is interesting but I wonder how hard the programming is and how much of it is just straight programming vs playing a sequence into it. Thanks for sharing. Cheers!
The main difference is that the Lunch Bus's power converter (the little MeanWell block) is half the power of the one on the Excalibus - if that still covers your needs, go for it! (In theory, the footprints are the same, so could put the 30W MeanWell on a LunchBus but as Jim says i've never seen one DIY...)
I also have several Excalibus, and apart from getting a little warm because I really need one more of them, they're great! I opted to add some cheap little heatsinks on the converters to help them out a little bit, but the datasheet also says that they're supposed to run a little toasty, so it's probably not really necessary.
I have no experience with any of these modules, but I am familiar with clocking issues. Maybe these tips will help you find the problem.
Clock signals are essentially short triggers, so you could make a clock source yourself by creating an on/off signal of approx 5 volts. A square LFO can be used for this, or manually triggering something like a short envelope should work.
Patch a temporary manual "clock source" into Pam's to see if it responds to this the way you expect. If not, the problem is likely on Pam's side. Maybe you need to change some setting to make it listen to external input as opposed to the internal clock.
Ideally, patch the clock/reset output of Yarns into a scope or something that shows you the voltage from Yarns. If you don't have a module like this, create a basic patch to see if Yarns actually puts out a signal: clock/reset into a short envelope generator (sustain all the way up, short/medium release), envelope to a VCA's CV in, add any audible soundsource (noise or somthing) to the VCA input and route the VCA output to your mixer/output/speakers. Is the envelope being triggered, do you hear any sound? If not, the problem is probably in the MIDI output settings of the Tanzbär or the midi input settings of Yarns.
Try to connect the MIDI OUT of the Tanzbär to another MIDI device and see if that works.
yes, but isn't velocity cv just on the pitched sequencer channels - I thought you wanted it on the trigger sequencer outputs - ie how hard you hit a drum - I don't often use the BSP these days - although I may start again soon when I have a couple more percussion modules...
-- JimHowell1970
Yes, that's correct. The 8 drumpads are trigger only. So for the two pitched sequencer tracks, you can adjust another parameter in addition to trigger+V/Oct, which is what I did. I guess if I'm really desperate and I know a sequencer + drum part are running together, I can use the sequencer velocity to tweak something in the drum line. But that's probably my 3-track C=64 tracker mentality coming up again!
I can rest easy now and think about a more sensible introduction to hardware eurorack
-- static10
To be fair, that rack was never supposed to be an introduction to Eurorack. It was an example of what’s required for a ‘serious’ generative system - I still refer to it today. It’s not really module prescriptive either because in its original thread/context, Lugia explains what each module contributes to a generative workflow: some manipulate clocks, others extract gates from waveforms, others create random CV to manipulate those waveforms, and it goes on in an ever cycling, non-repeating fashion. What I like about the rack is that there are no ‘do it all’ modules (save for maybe the Marbles or Time’s Arrow), so you really have to think through what you’re trying to do - which for me is the fun part.
-- Manbearpignick
@Lugia's explanation of the rack is excellent and very helpful, even outside the thread's context, and I have it bookmarked for reference. I knew it was never meant to be an introduction, and it was never really in my thoughts for a first rack, but oh boy, that last module!
Sorry for my absence/late reply. I’ve been trying to curb my modular appetite by staying offline lol. I actually purchased a veils a while back and it’s awesome. I really do appreciate everyone’s suggestions it was really helpful for me as someone not knowing anything really about this world. I have a fun little set up that I’m really happy with made of mostly mutable modules. I was wanting to explore some of the alternative firmware that’s out there for mainly clouds and stages but I’m afraid I’m going to fuck something up. Is this fear valid or should I just go through with it?
Hi Garfield! Thanks for your fantastic comments. Regarding the Summit - I really like it. I don’t use it as much as I’d like but every time I touch it wonderful sounds come out. It has a ton of features and functionality and I love the filter and even the effects are pretty good. Notation offers a ton of free sounds online and spent a bunch of time grabbing cool pads and leads, so that made it even better. I don’t do “sound design” on it but find a preset that’s close to what I want and tweak from there. If you’re in need of a kick-ass 16 voice poly-synth it’s hard to beat.
I'm totally stuck at the moment, would be amazing if somebody might know something about this clock setup issue!
I'm trying to sync Pamela's NEW Workout with my MFB Tanzbär 2 drum computer's clock. I have Mutable Instruments Yarns as my MIDI to CV interface.
Yarns layout is set to 2M: 2x monophonic. MIDI notes and gate info are received via MIDI from the Tanzbär sequencer to Yarns Note CV 1 - 2 and Gate 1 - 2 outputs, this works fine.
I have the MIDI Clock and MIDI start CV outs on Yarns patched to the Clock and Run CV inputs on Pamela, but unfortunately neither is Pam started or synced to the Tanzbär's BPM. I tried messing around with the clock settings on Pam, like the PPQ etc. but Pam's BPM remains fixed on 300 BPM, and refuses to sync or run.
I have a feeling I'm totally missing something here I'm overlooking?
there is a cable I could use with the 4MS Listen Four 1/4 that goes from 1/4" to 3.5mm that could be run to my Cosmix....just not sure if audio quality degrades doing something like that or not.
-- jb61264
yes there are cables available and they work fine - signal degredation is identical to using 3.5mm->3.5mm cables - hosa make them as do other brands including doepfer iirc
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
not via the trigger outs they're not - via midi they are I guess - never used mine other than via cv though
I've just tested this. The velo CV output works just fine. It outputs a very wide range between velo 0 and vel0 127. I've not metered it but I'm guessing 0-10V. When I pass it through an attenuator, it works nicely to control effects. For example, in Plaits in the granular sawtooth mode, I use it to control the spread of the frequencies of the sawtooth. The harder I punch the button, the more distorted it sounds. If you haven't yet, try it out - it's a nice way to control an effect per step with the BSP.
-- Arrandan
yes, but isn't velocity cv just on the pitched sequencer channels - I thought you wanted it on the trigger sequencer outputs - ie how hard you hit a drum - I don't often use the BSP these days - although I may start again soon when I have a couple more percussion modules...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
why do I recommend the excalibus??? because I have 4 - all DIY ones (lunchbus doesn't come DIY afaik) - simple, if tedious builds - there's 26? * 16 solder joints just for the headers - and they are great - quiet enough for video modules (no noticeable ripple up intot he MHz) - and they have a lot of headers and are low profile
if the lunchbus will work for you I'm pretty sure it's the same - but idk - which is why I recommend the excalibus - because I do know!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Thanks Jim. Is there any reason I shouldn't use the Lunch Bus, in place of the Excalibus? The Lunch Bus is a bit cheaper than the Excal, but I notice that the power specs are a little different. But there are some YT videos of some DIY cases that used the Lunch Bus...
This semi-generative piece was based around a method I devised to get Pamela’s New Workout to instantly and automatically regenerate a loop of random voltage every few bars. Three interlocking melodies – a bass line, a treble voice, and (via Beads) a kind of string section – unfold from a single Mutable Instruments Plaits module and a single pitch sequence. This piece was also an effort to get outside my diatonic comfort zone, and use some “outside” chords, in this case an F#maj13 that disturb the Cm and Gm. (How can a major chord sound so bleak?). The overall mood is dark ambient but with warm tones, hence the title.
Further patch details in the video:
Stygian Colors: a semi-generative piece
Check to see if sending a simple sine wave for specified amounts of time is sufficient to trigger "Freeze" on beads, which should allow for retriggering freeze.
Check to see what signal looks like on MELLOSCOPE when sending MIDI GATE out of Nuetron.
Essentially looking for something that would have both 1/4" outs (that could be used to route to my audio interface and also has 3.5 mm outs that I could route to my Cosmix mixer if I wanted. I suppose I could be making this more complicated than necessary...maybe there is a cable I could use with the 4MS Listen Four 1/4 that goes from 1/4" to 3.5mm that could be run to my Cosmix....just not sure if audio quality degrades doing something like that or not.
not via the trigger outs they're not - via midi they are I guess - never used mine other than via cv though
I've just tested this. The velo CV output works just fine. It outputs a very wide range between velo 0 and vel0 127. I've not metered it but I'm guessing 0-10V. When I pass it through an attenuator, it works nicely to control effects. For example, in Plaits in the granular sawtooth mode, I use it to control the spread of the frequencies of the sawtooth. The harder I punch the button, the more distorted it sounds. If you haven't yet, try it out - it's a nice way to control an effect per step with the BSP.
Thanks Arrandan for the recommendation. I just checked the 321 out and it seems like the perfect tool for that purpose. Even better than the ABC, as it's 3-way instead of dual, and at a better price.
If I finally go for a second Pam's I'll definitely grab at least one of these.
I can rest easy now and think about a more sensible introduction to hardware eurorack
-- static10
To be fair, that rack was never supposed to be an introduction to Eurorack. It was an example of what’s required for a ‘serious’ generative system - I still refer to it today. It’s not really module prescriptive either because in its original thread/context, Lugia explains what each module contributes to a generative workflow: some manipulate clocks, others extract gates from waveforms, others create random CV to manipulate those waveforms, and it goes on in an ever cycling, non-repeating fashion. What I like about the rack is that there are no ‘do it all’ modules (save for maybe the Marbles or Time’s Arrow), so you really have to think through what you’re trying to do - which for me is the fun part.
Honestly, I don't think you'll save a lot. If you buy the rails themselves with a threaded strip on a site like Schneidersladen, you'll pay between €14-15 for a 19" (so €28-30 for top and bottom). If, on the other hand, you buy 12U rack strips for 19", it will set you back €12 but you will still need to figure out how to mount your modules in it. For that €15, just go for real Eurorack rails and threaded strips.
I think Jim is onto something when he says to skip the 1U. I have one but it has only 2 multis and a VCA in it. Choice is much more limited. If you want to limit expense, go for 6U so you get sufficient space with just 4 rack rails.
but then you get into shitty ergonomics territory...
-- JimHowell1970
On the very long odds I could ever afford to build this, I've found a place that makes custom racks, and I'd be able to go bigger and use the proper-sized Mutable modules throughout. I've lurked in the Racks forums for quite some time now, so definitely appreciate the importance of ergonomics.
While I haven't used it myself, I've seen Frap Tools 321 advised to turn Pam's output into bipolar. You can shift the output by a DC value, so lowering it below zero, and if necessary add amplification up to 2x. I have a similar problem with Zadar, which generates positive-only values but can also be used as an LFO. I just take it into account that it's 0-10V instead of -5 - +5V.
I keep running out of Pam's outputs and am considering getting an expander and second Pam's, but since I often use utilities to make it bipolar 10Vpp (eg. Befaco A*B+C) I was wondering if there's some LFO or bipolar modulation out there that would do a similar job. I've got the Batumi, which is great, but nowhere near as versatile and feature-packed as Pam's.
I get the impression there's no module out there that can substitute it single handedly, but rather would need a bunch of other modules combined to do the same thing.
Great answer from Lugia on the Maths cigar :)) Humor is too often absent here. VCA: I've been using the Intellijel Quad Vca for 3 years, solid as a Montecristo Nº 4. EG: Zadar recently completed (with Nin) my other modules like Tides. It's more like a VegaFina: a unique taste and concept, excellent value for money!
a quantizer doesn't necessarily transpose - some can but most won't, you would normally use a precision adder for transposition, what a quantizer does is drag the input voltage to the voltage of the nearest note in the specified scale (which may be up or down depending on how the quantizer has been programmed...
with a quad quantizer all 4 inputs are usually quantized to the same scale
if all 4 of the outputs are voltages in the same scale, then they will be harmonious - this doesn't necessarily mean that they will sound how you want them to... the oscillators or voices need to be tuned - probably to the same root note, but not necessarily in the same octave - and they have to be able to track in the range that you are sending notes to them - ie probably not over 10 octaves - and the sequences have to be programmed etc
how do I use a quad quantizer in my setup? I have a sinfonion, I send it 3 or 4 sequences (made up from marbles, erica black sequencer, tesseract step fader etc), note mask each part as required and send the outputs to different vcos/voices - which are tuned to a reference C from the sinfonion - one really useful thing in the sinfonion is that you can set the starting octave of each channel - both the quantizers (and arpeggiator) and the chord progression sequencer (and the tuning C is in the correct octave) - I also use another sequencer to change song parts on the sinfonion when needed and a clock to advance within the song part
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Indeed, being in the same scale doesn't necessarily mean consonant. You can still get dissonant intervals playing at the same time, eg. a 2nd or a diminished 5th.
If inputting random uncontrollable CVs, like from an LFO or S&H, I'd recommend to set the quantizer to a specific chord, rather than a scale. This minimizes the risk of getting unwanted dissonances, if any.
I guess full scales are useful when you're inputting a more controllable source, like an unquantized sequencer, where you can set each step to specific positions until you get a combination of notes you like, and they stay there.
I hope it makes sense.
I combine the Zadar with a Veils VCA. Zadar isn't very menu-divey if you just want envelopes. If you want to use the CV inputs or set it to repeat or LFO, yes, but the menus are not very deep at all. I'm not using the expander myself. For envelopes, well, there's so many of them that it means quite some button turning before you find what you want. But that's just choice for you.
Veils is a very good, basic VCA. I sometimes move away from purely linear towards exponential (not all the way, though) to achieve clipping on the envelope. It's a simple way to add some distortion to your signal already before sending it to filters/fx. The two modules are side to side in my rack and all Zadar outs are permanently plugged into the Veils CV ins. It's a great combo :-)
i have a question about using a quad quantizer. I understand that you can set a scale for four different inputs. Let's assume that I have four different sequences and I use the quantizer to transpose them to the same scale. But that doesn't automatically mean that all the tones fit together when the four sequences are running. Maybe I don't quite understand the exact scope.
How do you use a quad quantizer in your setup?
not unless you can find adapters - regular 19" rails usually take adapters for m5 screws - eurorack usually uses m3 screws
even then the holes won't be in the correct places and you'll have gaps everywhere
imo if you want to save money - dump the 1u row - and just go for 3u - there's nothing in 1u that isn't available in 3u and will take up less space
another way to save money is just to use wood and screw modules directly into the wood - but then you can't use the uZeus as it needs the rails for a heat sink - maybe consider a befaco excalibus, which also doesn't have a hp stealing rack wart!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
This is a bit of a fantasy build (let’s face it, aren’t all of the racks here fantasies? Haha)
This rack is based on what is pretty much the coolest thing I’ve ever seen on Reverb: an old Haliburton suitcase adapted for Eurorack. It inspired me to think of what modules I mostly don’t have in my system. I’ve always fancied the idea of a Verbos Harmonic Oscillator, surrounded by modules that would extract the most from its capabilities. I lean toward the ‘herded kittens’ side of things: random-ish, melodic-ish, slowly unfolding type-ish. I’m dreaming of doing stuff like making a copies of the VHO’s tones and smearing the crap out of them, then mix that back in etc etc. Maybe there needs to be less modulation in favor of effects, not sure. Please critique the fantasy or add some ideas! Either way, the constraint is the Haliburton case itself: 96HP x 9U - feast you eyes on this: https://reverb.com/item/52098467-bpnyc-halliburton-eurorack-modular-travel-case-87799
I am building my 1st rack w/ as little money as possible. Can I mount regular rackmount rails horizontally in place of z-rails? If so, then all I need is a micro zeus. I can cut my own panels/boards for the actual case. I'm looking at 84HP, either 4U or 7U.
Thank you!!
Besides what Lugia already recommended, I can recommend the Hikari Instruments - Triple AD, it's a snappy triple AD that I love to use, it never disappoints me and it's not too bulky.
Regarding VCAs, my all-time winner is the Waldorf - DVCA1, it's large yes, but it's a great dual VCA that can do linear or exponential VCA characteristic, or... and that's what I love it for... mix both characteristics. It's getting sold out however those dealers that still sell them, you mind find very interesting and affordable special offers for this DVCA1.
If that's all too bulky for you then consider the Tallin from Xaoc Devices, that's a nice dual VCA too and has a much smaller footprint. Or take an affordable Doepfer VCA, they are, considering the reasonable price, good too!
For the VCAs, all mentioned examples and a few more, I have made review reports about that in PDF format that are downloadable from my website, see below my signature for the link.
Good luck in choosing a nice EG and a nice VCA :-) Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Are you specifically referring to Behringer Eurorack module Victor with its oscillator based on the Behringer Pro VS Soul? That might be indeed interesting if that's what you mean :-) How about the Pro VS Soul itself then? For me it's a bit too "mini". Let's hope Behringer comes with the real Prophet VS :-D I am just watching a video of the Prophet VS, interesting that the cut off comes as a slider and not as a knob...
Since we are mentioning here anyway that B-word, how about the upcoming Proton, Kobol, Kobol Expander, DS-80 and Pro-16? All quite interesting though the Pro-16 is a copy of a still existing Sequential Prophet 5 synthesizer, so I don't feel too happy about that one. Still interesting one but from a... how to say this...? From a human-respect-point of view not so nice but then again... let's not start that discussion again ;-)
Behringer announced lately tons of new synths, I think the above ones are the summarised interesting ones, well at least that's how I see it :-)
Edit: Whoops, I forgot to mention the VCS 3, interesting too!
I remember you mentioned in another post about the BCR32, you recommended it highly, then if I remember correctly (so please do correct me if I am wrong) you mentioned that it will not be released, however I heard (okay, rather rumours) that Behringer will continue with that, so that's yet another interesting one!
Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
VCV rack is fun because you can add everything but in modular, either you are rich and don't care or you have to be really careful. Module resell most of the time at 75% but really slowly. Even in second hand, it 'll cost a lot.
You can do generative ambiant with really small setting.
Personally,
Sequencing, LFO and quantizer : Pamela and Mimetic Digitalis or Harlequin's Context
Two Voice : Basimilus Iteritas, Telharmonic, Rings or Plaits
Some delay and reverb : noise engineering versio , 4ms tapographic delay, strymon, make noise mimeophon, MI Beads/Clouds, Instruo Arbhar
A VCA
A uzeus as power
A output module if you need.
First, you get Pam, a voice, a delay/reverb, practice a year, then bring carefully the rest of your first 84hp. And after, you bring a filter then more modulation, VCA, offset, logic, switch, clock modulator in the second 84hp...
-- SamuelGeai
Oh, it absolutely is, I agree! It was mostly an exercise to recreate the rack @Lugia made as it was no longer available, and the missing module I couldn't figure out on the top row was driving me crazy!
Thank you for your far more sensible suggestions, I will definitely have a good look at these and see what sort of price range I might be looking at.
