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There is an interesting discussion about having a musical vision on gearspace which got me thinking (I hope it's ok to cross-post to other forums). I created this track about a breakdown I had 10 years ago, when I was stuck and saw no way out. It's the first time I started with the vision first and applied musical ideas to convey it. Listening back after a good night's rest, I can find several issues. But it conveys what I wanted, which isn't bad for a one-track-per-day track. Patch info in the video description with a summary in the subtitles.

Very nice indeed. Very atmospheric. The high hats are a bit sharp on my speakers, but I'm really nitpicking!

I have a new bug report. I have been trying for over 24 hours to get a refreshed screenshot image of one of my current racks, but the link to the image keeps showing a state of the rack from over a week ago.

I keep on hard refreshing (Ctrl-F5) both the rack page and the screenshot image page, but nothing is resulting in a capture of the current state of the rack.

EDITED Apr 20th 2022, 02:10

Ah ... brings back memories of when I started in ... "84 HP is going to be plenty!" Such innocent times. The best financial advice you can give someone getting into euro is probably "don't do it!"

Glad the rack is working out though. It does become an obsession, and I often wish I could go back to when I started to emphasize a few things, most of which has already been said and some of which it sounds like you're beyond at this point, but just to add my version of agreement(s):

• Don't waste money on a fancy case, unless you need to be mobile and are going to gig or something. All you need are rails, something to mount them on, and a way to have busboards behind the units. I paid like $400 for a "custom" 2x 84HP case with a shitty PSU. Waste of money.
• Don't skimp on space itself, though -- if you think you need 104 HP, get 3 rows of 104 HP. A Synthrotek Cheeks of Steel isn't a bad place to start. You'll thank yourself later.
• Don't skimp on power. Get an m/15 from Trogotronic with 3 busboards right out the gate. It's actually a very competitively priced PSU and it'll take you a while to catch up with all the power it offers.
• Get a Mordax DATA. I almost didn't, but so glad I did - it is such a useful tool in terms of really getting your head around what the modules are doing, if you're a visual learner -- especially EGs and the like. Absolutely worth it just for the oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, and voltage monitors, but it has VCOs and clocks and stuff too. Can't go wrong.

Beyond that, the usual stuff that's easy to forget or not see the value of: offsets and attenuators, inverters and polarizers, mixers (both DC and AC), VCAs, and lots of mults.

I have three -- maybe four if we count a Patching Panda Punch. A 4MS PEG, a Make Noise Maths, and a Velectronic AEnvelope. I also briefly used a Befaco Rampage, but had the option to keep that or the PEG, and chose the PEG because it seemed a little clearer and I liked the layout better.

The Maths I picked up pretty recently and am still warming up to it. It's perfectly fine and I like it.

But as a general EG that gets talked about less, I've always really loved and still love my 4MS PEG. It has a lot of overlap with the Maths, but has its own depth, and it's a much more intuitive, clearly-laid-out, easy-to-get-into module. For me the Maths definitely doesn't replace it, but does offer a different (if somewhat more convoluted) take on similar functionality. You can probably go a little deeper with Maths due to the inclusion of the OR/SUM/INV section, the 4 available channels, and the inclusion of onboard voltage offsets. But then again, the fact the PEG has a pair of onboard quantized clock multiplier/dividers has always been a pretty great feature, to me, particularly if you have a QCD, which the PEG will sync to without any patching if it's on the same bus. There's also more variety to the curve shapes you can apply to the envelopes of the PEG, and either channel can be independently selected to be unipolar or bipolar, with an additional unipolar +5V out dupe. And while the PEG retails for more than the Maths, secondhand you can often get them cheaper than Maths.

I think a Zadar could be super interesting, but I feel like I wouldn't get on with its digital, menu-driven nature. I did some of that with an O&C and never cared for it much, though I'm sure the Zadar can do way more. Where the Maths seems kind of opaque until you get used to it, the Zadar seems too menu-reliant. (Just for my own taste -- I've never used one, so I'm not sure, and Xaoc makes some good stuff). If your primary concern is being able to create very specific envelope shapes straight from the module, and you don't mind little menus, Zadar is probably a good pick. Coming back to the PEG again, though, I really like the balance it strikes between being (relatively) easy to "read" (and thus patch/manipulate), while still being primarily tactile and knob-driven. The Maths I have to kind of pump myself up to utilize, at least right now as I'm still getting to know it, where the PEG I've always just immediately and intuitively reached for. If I didn't have a DATA to better visualize what Maths was outputting, I don't think I'd be too crazy about it. It helps with the PEG too -- a DATA is great all around to have, really -- but doubly so with Maths.

And as for the AEnvelope by Velectronic, I absolutely love that thing, too. It's kinda niche, fairly expensive, and not unlike Maths, takes a bit of work (and tutorial viewing) to get your head around -- but once it all clicks into place and you get the feel of using it, it's really great. It's actually pretty easy to use once you walk through its features, and I don't feel the need to pipe it through my DATA as much as the others -- it's just a little intimidating at first blush. My only nitpick really would be that I always find myself wishing the second row of outputs were inverted or polarized outs -- that would make them more useful to me. But it's a minor quibble. And aesthetically speaking, there's no contest, it's a truly beautifully designed module.

And while we're talking ADSRs, I also had a Doepfer A-141-2v that I've always vaguely regretted selling. It only offers one envelope, which in my experience wasn't the snappiest in the world, but you get a lot of control over that envelope, with some interesting self-patching options. It was actually pretty interesting as a weird oscillator when self-patched. I've tried that with my PEG as well, but I feel like the Doepfer rolled with the audio-rate abuse a little better than the PEG does, you could really get it to sound like its own voice. I imagine like other Doepfer ADSRs you can get these fairly cheap, I know I sold mine at a pretty big loss secondhand, which is one of the reasons I regret selling it. And while I've never used them, the Doepfer A-140-2 and A-143-2 both seem like tremendously good values relatively to what you can get them for secondhand (or even firsthand, really).

I can also recommend the Soundforce Dual ADSR, which was what my AEnvelope replaced. I'm 100% happy with my choice, but the Soundforce was perfect while I had it -- nothing too fancy too it, but always absolutely clear at a glance with its dual slider set, good responsive envelopes, good support from the company. It's a bit big for what it does, but if space isn't at a premium and you just want something useful and easy, it fits that bill nicely.

EDITED Apr 20th 2022, 00:33

Ah THAT thing ;-)
One thing that immediately put me off was the fact that the 2mm banana connectors do not fully insert into the jacks.
I can't help but figure how I snap those with my elbow. That's only me of course.

Here is a long talk from Hainbach with Prof. Bernd Ulmann, one of the project's initiators, and Hans Kulk of Willem Twee Studios. FF to 10:30 for appearance of the guests.

Is there a way to filter the marketplace offers with a specific EU country? (France in my case)

No, you cannot select specific EU countries but you can select EU.

You could certainly do some amount of stuff with this, but you're not gonna be able to build many things capable of CV with just two analog multipliers; maybe a simple oscillator, but not one with any tracking. You're also definitely not gonna be having CV over any chaotic systems; they require too many multipliers. In addition, most chaotic systems only work at speeds too high to be useful for anything in the context of modular besides slightly tonal noise. They're very cool, don't get me wrong. In fact I'd love to have one myself, but you should temper your expectations a bit.

https://the-analog-thing.org/

Yeah, an analog computer. A brand NEW one, too. Now, for some time I've been holding onto some semi-working surplus Systron-Donner 3300s, with the idea that I might be able to use them with some major modifications, building ONE functioning machine out of all three. But this had issues...the most disturbing one being that these had a +/-100V operating level. Plug that into a Eurorack module and watch the fireworks!

The Analog Thing, however, has a +/-10V level. This means that not only will it play nice with Eurorack, etc, it'll allow me to make the computer directly interact with my modular gear, with only some proto-pin to 3.5mm cables needed (and yes, a common ground). You want it to "talk" to something like Maths? Yeah, it'll do that. Want a VCO (yes, it appears to even be capable of CV control!) based on Chua's circuit or a Lorenz attractor? No prob, doodz. Just keep an attenuator on hand so that you can tighten up the voltage span, and you're live with that.

And now, I'm going to make you, the reader, have a total conniption fit:

It's only EUR 299. And yes, they ship and handle purchases internationally, so if you're not in the EU, you can still get on this thing. Extra cables? They got 'em...about EUR 25 for a sizable pack.

This thing is such a no-brainer for heavy-duty modular guys...but even those with smaller systems can jump on this. And if you want to constrain the voltages to a 0-5V for things like my AE, you can snag one of Soundmachines' NS-1 Nanobridges and use that to clamp things into the right ranges for that. Gamechanger, more or less!

Oh, and if you want to save a sequence of voltage curves, you've got Expert Sleepers' modules, which should handle this machine's outputs like a champ. Or work out something for its internal "hybrid I/O", which allows direct connection to a digital computer; IMHO, this just SCREAMS "Max for Live abuse".

Amazing times...I'd NEVER expected to see something like this! Should arrive in late May, so after some basics to get used to it, it's going right into the modular "sandbox".

EDITED Apr 19th 2022, 01:13

As for function generator, definitely check out the Joranalogue Countour 1. I sent my maths back and got 4 Countour 1s and a Morph4. More expensive but incomparably better both in features, quality and usefuleness. The new Veils looks good for a quad vca, replaced my intellijel quad vca to it (the bottom most pots were difficult to access when the jacks are plugged and the layout is weird anyway)

I’ll definitely look deeper into Maths, but I always disliked the almost illegible font - i guess that’s probably why I’ve steered away from it for so long. I hope I can find a Grayscale version/faceplate of it. Are there any other versions of Maths you recommend (if any)?

-- Avesta

I feel you...the Make Noise "edgy" look is kind of annoying. I prefer modules that clearly show what's being done instead of rockin' some graphics that only wind up confusing/annoying the user. This is why I don't think much about effects pedals that have overdone, elaborate graphics (see here for an example: https://reverb.com/item/53789313-digitech-dirty-robot) that makes it more difficult to see knob positions, etc due to all of the busy artwork on the case. So, yeah...get the Grayscale panel.

Now, as for Maths-ish devices, there's the direct predecessor of that, the Serge Dual Universal Slope Gen. Several years ago, I would've told you that if you wanted one in Eurorack, you'd be screwed. But these days, Random*Source over in...Sweden, I think?...has many of the Serge circuits adapted to Eurorack. So here's their version of the DUSG: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/random-source-serge-dual-universal-slope-generator-dusg-mk2 With these, you don't need an entire Serge panel or half-panel...you can get JUST the module, which is also rather un-Serge-like. No, not cheap...but still far cheaper than if you had to buy one in the "old manner".

As for the Tangle Quartet...there's a workaround for that if you want to use them for audio, and that would be an exponential envelope gen. And it does appear that the Zadar is capable of generating those, so not only would this be a decent EG for the rig, it would "correct" the VCAs so that they behave exponentially even with them being linear VCAs. DEFINITELY get the Nin expander, though...it's got some assignable CV ins and a four button direct selector for the envelope generator in only 3 hp.

Actually, the site's there somewhere...the Internet simply can't find and/or get to it at present. Wait several hours and hit it again. The problem probably stems from the ongoing Ukraine/Russia war; remember, not all of the fighting is being done with tanks and missiles as there's also a LOT of Internet "warfare" going on with a wider "theater of conflict" than just what you see on TV.

Yes! Really enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks everyone for the replies. I’ll definitely check out your suggestions.
I ordered the Zadar envelope and bought the ALM Tangle Quartet for now (heard it’s very clean) until I get my hands on a Intellijel Quad VCA or Veils.

I’ll definitely look deeper into Maths, but I always disliked the almost illegible font - i guess that’s probably why I’ve steered away from it for so long. I hope I can find a Grayscale version/faceplate of it. Are there any other versions of Maths you recommend (if any)?

EDITED Apr 18th 2022, 19:17

I've been looking at the Rangoon from Calsynth,
it's converted to sliders for most controls, same form factor as a Monsoon.
may help with tuning stability/ not nudging the tuning out of place

Excellent :)

A darkish mid-tempo piece, basic patch details in the video description, thanks for watching.

A nice demo of the waveshaping/mangling/manipulator of Modulaire Maritime.

Hello dear all, I've spent a good month recolting 10 patches done on the new Black K-Phaser of Erica Synths. I've compiled them in a short video. You'll see a lot of changes on the euro-racks filmed. The module threats Manis Iteritas, TS-L, Plaits and more. Happy watching :)

EDITED May 8th 2022, 02:20

And of course, a tiny drop in that sample rate might just yield a musical benefit...a touch of "crunch" that doesn't screw up the signal but adds a bit of "character" instead. Sort of like why an older Yamaha SPX90 sounds so musical, even with its lower sampling rate and bandwidth limits.

There is always something you could add to the feature list of modules.

The Vortices could almost do with being upside down. Lots of tendrils cables.

I had Vortices on my short list for a long time. I ultimately chose a different route for similar types of sounds. I was planning on pairing it with the Worng Soundstage. I thought that might give me the best of both worlds. Only issue with the Soundstage is the lack of integrated individual VCAs, but that's easily handled upstream in a larger rack.
I know what you mean about the Vortices cable spaghetti. I suppose it's a good design if you are looking to save space, but if space isn't an issue it becomes an ergonomic concern. I have mixers at the bottom right of my rack, and had planned to put Vortices there even with the funky I/O setup.
Good luck finding a spot for it.

This is one for owners of the Steady State Fate Vortices mixer
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-vortices

It feels like a mixer that should or could live right in the middle of the rack as you end up with a load of patch leads heading to it from all angles. So where do you have yours?

Also does anyone have any suggestions of another mixer that would pair well with the Vortices?

I've recorded this jam with Tsl as a main lead, using a crossfade (instruo 1[f]) to mix PWM and Square waves. Each output has its own envelope (to vca and the same for filter) generated by Rampage and filter PWM thru Prism, and Square thru C4rbn.
BIA plays kicks and Plonk plays hats.
FX AID adds delay to square waves; Prism adds delay and desmodus reverb to PWM.
Sequenced by Hermod, and mixed with Jumble Henge.

I've found interesting to mix odd length melodies with 4/4 tempo signature, doing some kind evolving and hypnotic vibe.

EDITED Apr 17th 2022, 16:28

In fact, I tried to build many functions for different patches or applications into the case. It will primarily be used at home, for experimentation or to learn basic modular things. I'm sure that in the learning process, some modules will be exchanged for others. I think that's unavoidable and probably normal in this way of making music. I chose the limitation to this size because I already own the case and I think that there is no module in the plan that I could not use when switching to a larger case in the future because in my opinion there are not really special or only are application-oriented modules in the plan

I’m afraid I’m going to fuck something up. Is this fear valid or should I just go through with it?
-- Eros222

Just do it. I recently gave the rings alternate firmware a go and it's a gamechanger. Adds elements, as well as a whole bunch of other stuff.

It does lower the sample rate just a hair, but it doesn't bother me as it's not very noticeable.

I have not brought my geiger near it yet (it's in a drawer upstairs) to confirm or deny the presence of actual nuclear decay, sorry. I'll add that step to my test/demo section in the future....

EDITED Apr 17th 2022, 05:28

You have a lot of module who aren't "one knob per function". It can be ok for you but also can bring confusion and discomfort to play, specially fx aid, marbles and disting mk4. Do you want to do live concerts or just program at home?

You also don't have stereo mixer like stmix or mixup. With 5 stereo effect module, it may be missing.
-- SamuelGeai

The only menu-diving module amongst those is the Disting...which is super-powerful but also a real pain to navigate with its minimal display. As for the FX Aid, it's dirt-simple, like the majority of the Spin FV-1 devices. And Marbles shouldn't scare anyone who's accustomed to manipulating random sources.

The problem with "one knob" functionality in a small build like this one is that it wouldn't be a small build if that were implemented. That's the real reason for avoiding that trap; small builds require function-dense modules so that you can get lots of functionality per module, which is key to making a small build that can hold its own against huge builds that are more "one-knob"-like. And, of course, so that you can tote the synth around in a small cab, instead of hauling Doepfer monster cases around.

I wonder...might the problem be a component mismatch? Not the 3320 itself, but in the audio path "upstream". It might be worthwhile to A-B the schematics of this module against an "old skool" CEM3320 module to see if there's some component corrections that might even out the behavior/sound quality.

@clusterchord Yes. For all its features, but also 'intellectually' :) Maths remains a must-have. The best cigar money can buy :))
-- Sweelinck

Makes me think of the parallels between Maths and, say, the long-lost Avo piramides. I seriously miss those...

But yeah...Maths is 100% a core module these days. The capabilities it has are super-deep, and it's a logical must-do choice as a modulation (and loads more!) device. Tony NAILED that thing!

But is it really radioactive? I mean...a couple of my studio devices are, sooooooo...

That leads me to your already mentioned conclusion about the huge number of B.'s "teasers" the recent weeks/months and wondering how much of it ever will be produced and released on the market, besides the next important question... when will it be available? To me, this becomes a rather "irritating" experience getting to know about those "teasers" but nothing much else than that...

-- GarfieldModular

100% with you there. I have a great deal of annoyance at B.'s dropping teasers and then not offering any concrete follow-up info. For example, the PPG clone...wanted it, it's not out, so fukkit...went with a Sledge instead. Similarly, they keep making noises about their VCS3 clone...which I would be in line for IF it comes out, but B. just drops teasers and nothing concrete about this one. And where's the Solina clone? They might want to finish CURRENT projects FIRST before whipping users into a frenzy!

Look, if Uli wants a synth to copy, one that definitely benefits from the current tech AND which can be copied in its entirety and sell for about a grand...there's the Crumar GDS. Crazy-complex stuff for the late 1970s/early 1980s, it was the predecessor for the DK Synergy and Synergy II. But with the present-day tech, you could use a computer ed/lib to store patch data as well as to pass various signals (clock, for example) to the synth via USB, eliminating the need for the computer side of the instrument. And the internal microprocessors, RAM, etc are now nowhere the prices they were back then, which kills the expense aspect.

But the important part? Well...amazingly enough, that synth engine is 100% PUBLIC DOMAIN. I kid you not! It was originally developed by Hal Alles when he was working for Bell Labs in the mid-1970s, and given that the Bell Labs patents are open for public use without royalties, there's no way in hell anyone could scream "KNOCK-OFF" about it. Also, Hal Alles's prototype is still very much in existence, and it's housed at Oberlin's TIMARA labs. Studying that would be productive, along with a Synergy or Synergy II IF they can find one anywhere; it's not like these grew on trees, after all!

C'mon Uli...if you want to pull off a HUGE win without infringing patents and angering your putative customer base, THAT is the project I would suggest. It'd be a win all around! We're talking a synth that was used by the likes of Wendy and Klaus...so clearly, it's got loads of mojo, otherwise those two alone wouldn't have had anything to do with it.

You have a lot of module who aren't "one knob per function". It can be ok for you but also can bring confusion and discomfort to play, specially fx aid, marbles and disting mk4. Do you want to do live concerts or just program at home?

You also don't have stereo mixer like stmix or mixup. With 5 stereo effect module, it may be missing.

Thanks, now the application has definitely become a lot clearer to me. It's very interesting how a quantizer is used in the different racks

Hello, I have changed my rack again based on your recommendations and tips

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1882845.jpg

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:04

@clusterchord Yes. For all its features, but also 'intellectually' :) Maths remains a must-have. The best cigar money can buy :))

i had juno, still have sh101. while juno used IR3R01 chip for its env, and the latter a transistor design, i find them pretty similar in their shape, especially achieving that characteristic Roland "twang" when applied to filter. actually 101 might even be better at it.

there are no envelopes that use that chip, as its unobtanium and used for fixing junos and jup8.

however, there are transistor envs that do SH101, like Frequency Central. think G-Storm might have done some etc. Intellijel is also in that vein, but i dont think it sounds as snappy as FC or 101.

Soundforce is probably doing something similar. its not an actual Juno env inside, no. but all things considered, it does not make any difference. get it if you have HP space and want cv control over everything. otherwise go smaller.

my $0.02

hi Matteo, here are my favorites in analog domain:

1. BBD i.e. analog delay:

   EHX DMM - vintage, warm repeats, classic
   Boss DM-300 - same as above - probably my all time favorite
   Dynacord SRS-56 - dual mono bbd, dark but thick

2. Reverb: Music Thing Spring Reverb - i use medium Accutronic, and large old Hammond tank

3. Flanger: MXR126 Flanger/Doubler - Reticon chip. wide bandwidth, feedback polarity, cv

4. Phase Shifter:

   Small Stone - vintage rev2 & 3 - classic sound for deep cosmic levitations
   Phase 100 script logo - classic opto phaser, think gary numan cars, genesis etc

5. Chorus/Ensemble/wow+flutter:

   Synthoma Elkorus - original bbds from eminent stringers, triple bbd, two lfo, stereo
   Ibanez BC-9 - double bbd with indiv rate/depth
   Shallow Water - tried one, its on my shopping list

EDITED Jul 4th 2023, 10:17

have to say i prefer analog envelopes, for various reasons.

to start off,

for acoustic, snappy, from sound of hitting wood, to plinking on a porcelan vase, to a small
drum skin percussion, i love Maths. its slopes and the log/lin/exp control are just perfect.
i keep a narrow vca nearby if i want to automate slope change, by self patching (env out into
vca into maths cv ctrl inputs - rise,fall or both)

for classic Rolandish snap/twang in ADSR form, the FC has done well with his X-Envelope.
reportedly designed after the transistor env in SH101. i have a pair and its great they take
little space. however, if you need CV control, then you might look at Befaco or Instruo.
havent tried em tho.

also, in the AD/AR domain, i do like what i am hearing from Delta-V. very punchy. it has
that micro short hold phase, just like minimoog envs. i was looking into getting another
Maths for a while, but now im debating should i add this instead, for little variety sake.

cheers

EDITED Apr 18th 2022, 03:34

while I would agree that having the original ESPECIALLY if its going to be discontinued is a better choice may I point this module

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/st-modular-yaksha-s-fate

I have it and its nice for what it is. According to its blurb its setup in such a way that all “tweakable” parameters are on top
with bigger knobs etc have all others that will affect tune and harmonics more subdued.

I mainly use my uRings clone for either percussion or non-melodic cases where tuning etc doesnt matter much

Anyway just wanted to offer another module to have a look.. to be frank though I would prefer at this point a full sized one and will at some point try to procure one.

A very quick VCO/VCA build from Tesseract Modular. All surface mount except for the controls and LEDs, but all the surface mount has been pre-soldered. Means that the build is super fast, like 10-20 minutes for most folks.
Sounds really good and has interesting controls, recommended.

Radioactive build and demo

If size is an issue this might not make sense but the STG Envelope Generator is worth at least knowing about. As far as I know, the feature set is unique. I bought one and liked it enough to buy another.

Thanks for your thoughts dubstepjoris and TOMMI001. I just heard that Rings has been discontinued, so I might try to pick up the original while I still can. After picking up Plaits and Beads, I now realize that I have real pieces of art in my hands. I will stick with the originals while I can:)

Thanks for that, Jim. I really enjoyed checking out your videos on Instagram.

Ha, ha!

How about that "screaming stuff" from Touell Skouarn?

As for the "Soul", though...I was intrigued until I saw what they were touting as "prototypes", which just look ugly and ungainly...no fun to play!

-- Lugia

Actually the same I was thinking about the Soul, it looks to me that I will not be interested in it. That Prophet VS oscillator though, that indeed might become an interesting module, however I want to have it tested at my dealer first before I think about buying it.

Okay and indeed regarding the BCR32, we have to be patience again to see when it becomes available and if indeed, if it's really that great as we hope it's going to be :-) Well, let's see...

That leads me to your already mentioned conclusion about the huge number of B.'s "teasers" the recent weeks/months and wondering how much of it ever will be produced and released on the market, besides the next important question... when will it be available? To me, this becomes a rather "irritating" experience getting to know about those "teasers" but nothing much else than that...

Again, anyway, let's see... Thanks a lot for your opinion & feedback and kind regards, Garfield.