Paired with:
Arturia Minibrute 2
Teenage Engineering OP-1
Source Audio Ventris Dual-Reverb

I play the piano but recently got into making electronic music. I like working with ambience, harmonies and drones. The goal is to write music for relaxation and meditation. I'm very new to modular, so any feedback or inspiration that can help me on my journey would be appreciated, thanks!

Thoughts:
Mutable Instruments Tides
Make Noise Rosie

EDITED Mar 18th 2019, 01:08

I thought a lot of the functions you note under #4 were being taken care of by the Maths, Disting, Plaits, etc. Are you suggesting I need more than one module to address these functions in the same way that a system needs multiple VCOs; or, are you suggesting that I need modules that are more focused on providing that specific function? For example, the Plaits provides a noise source; so, do I need maybe an A-118 in addition to Plaits?

Can a buffered multi be used as a passive multi?

Any recommendations on a pannable stereo mixer module that would work well with the Pittsburgh?

Thanks.

Hi, thank you for your comment. This project are still a "work in progress". I'm thinking to eliminate A-Mix and use the 3 input of the modDemix as mixer

My semi-modulars : Mother-32, DFAM, 0-Coast, System-1m.
My sequencers : KeyStep, BeatStep pro, SQ-1.

In your opinion, is this rack a good beginning to extend and complete my set, and make my first steps into the real modular world ?

About the case : 6U studio case 104HP + power supply
https://www.modularsquare.com/fr/shop/eowave/6u-studio-case-104hp-power-supply/
Or : TipTop Audio Mantis
https://www.modularsquare.com/fr/shop/tiptop-audio/mantis-case-vert/

Thanks in advance for your advices.

EDITED Mar 17th 2019, 13:58

Bought MI Stages from @bark (nice handle btw).
Everything went smooth. Shipped as agreed. Good packaging.

Just realized I posted an older rendition. This is what I am actually considering:

Like most in this sub I'm pretty fresh to the euro game. I have a minibrute 2 and the rackbrute 6u. Over the past few months I have accumulated the maths, rene, and plaits and have had loads of fun with just these and the brute, but I want to expand and have plenty of rackspace to do so. This is what I have sketched up so far and would love some feedback before I pull the trigger on any of these.
Thanks so much

For starters, you need to change your case width. The Mantis is 2 x 104 hp. Once this is the right size, then you should have a much better idea about remaining space.

1) Lose the Multiplicity XV. You won't need it. A massive buffered mult like that is great if you're talking about a 15+ VCO rig, but this isn't going to ever come close to that. Right now, your build shows a DixieII+ and a Plaits, and you can send a CV to both with a plain old passive inline mult with no risk of CV sag. I know you already have this on hand, but it's way off in the overkill zone for a small build and you're losing hp to it.

2) Lose the Quad Invert. Your Triatt has attenuverters already. Plus, it's always better to have attenuverter control over inverse signal levels than dedicated inverters unless there's a specific reason they need to be there (such as providing four inverters for a quad envelope gen).

3) Consider losing the OR module. I don't see enough gate sources here (Pam's notwithstanding) to warrant it.

4) This NEEDS some noise/random source, sample & hold, ring modulation, waveshaping, and especially envelope generators to be a functional, proper synth. You also need some sort of stereo mixer, otherwise the capabilities of that Pitt output module are wasted.

5) Consider doing your effects outboard for the sake of hp. An Erbeverb is a nice thing...provided you have 20 hp to spare and with what's missing here for your stated purpose, you don't have that much space to blow. You might also consider going to a much smaller reverb such as Purrtronics' spring emulator which would also help you "stereoize" your output signal if you find you don't have the room for a proper pannable stereo mixer.

6) Consider using an Optomix instead of the LXD. This way, you have manual level and LPG frequency controls in addition to the regular CV ins, which then makes this a better/more controllable candidate for mixing the two LPG signals to a mono out.

7) Lastly, add a more complex VCF than just the Wasp. It's a great filter, sure, but you'll want more. My suggestion would be Tiptop's Forbidden Planet, something of a Steiner Synthacon VCF clone. Very capable and very interesting-sounding, plus you have multiple filter responses rather than just the lowpass the Wasp offers.

EDITED Mar 17th 2019, 00:18

Nope, this won't work. There's a lot of essential items missing here: no VCAs, no envelope gens, no LFO, nothing random, no noise sources, no mixers, no attenuators, and there's unnecessary things in here (Rainmaker, Ears). Plus, if you're trying to do decent sound design and ambient work, you're either going to have to resort to very small modules (6 hp and down) or expand the case, or (better) both.

Let's think ahead, also. You will want to expand this eventually. This means that your case situation needs to be thought out for this in advance. My take on this is that you should look into Intellijel's 4U x 104 hp case, a rather sturdy aluminum skiff-type cab which comes fully-powered for $319, and which can easily be added to later via Intellijel's joiner plates and more of their cabs. The other reason for 4U here is that you can take some of the basic functions and put them into the 1U tile row. You're limited to Intellijel's tiles (the 1U row here doesn't take the "standard" tiles) but they offer most of your necessary basics (ie: MIDI, mixing, sample & hold/noise/clock, audio I/O, etc).

Next, shrink the hell out of things in the 3U row. Don't use single-function modules if you can help it, and keep the module widths as low as you can. Even if this raises the cost some, the end result will be more function packed into the build, which means more capability for what you want/need. Also, limit what goes into this to pure functionality; if you can move 3U functions to the 1U row via a tile, do so. Avoid mult modules since they waste space in smaller builds and use stackcables or inline mults. See how far you can go without compromising ergonomics and playability (which, if you go too small, you run a real risk of doing). Plus, if you can do anything outboard (such as effects processing), do so...leave the space in the cab strictly for things which cannot be replicated outside of it.

Lastly, remember that a synth has to have aspects of these four functions: generators (VCOs, noise, etc), modifiers (VCFs, VCAs, ring mods, waveshapers, etc), controllers (mixers, MIDI interfaces, joysticks, clocking, sequencers, etc) and modulators (LFOs, envelope gens, sample & holds, etc). If your build doesn't have parts from all four of these synth "food groups", it's not going to function well.

EDITED Mar 16th 2019, 23:57

*Updated Rack

Hello all!

First time posting on the forum. I am about 1 year into my synth/modular journey and I am obsessed and learning something new each day.

My first piece of gear was the DFAM which I love followed by a Neutron and a keystep that I pair with it.

I have made the jump and just got a mantis case and have a maths, dixie 2+, a-140 adsr, veils, and a passive mult.
I plan on getting a wasp filter or a three sisters.

My question is really about sequencers...I am torn between a Eloquencer or Rene v2 or a pressure points with brains.
Or do I not worry about the sequencer so much right now and go with something like a PNW, adding a plaits and marbles or go with a batumi ahhhh! I bit lost at this point but basically I am trying to create a stand alone unit along with my DFAM. I might sell/trade the neutron because I am not using it as much as I thought I would.

Any advice would be great.

Thank you!

EDITED Mar 30th 2019, 00:17

I'd like to get some input please. I've already purchased the top row of modules. The second row is what I'm looking at to expand my system so I can start learning general synthesis techniques.

Most of these choices are based on the comments made on previous threads. But I can see where that would be dangerous given the high variability of functions between modules. Obviously, I'd like to avoid unnecessary duplication and modules that are too niche for a beginner setup. So, the bottom row is sort of a usual suspects lineup. The empty space is reserved for more specialized modules I can purchase after I start to figure out how this thing works. What would you guys add or subtract? Thanks.

Looks like you're missing any form of control (save for moving the knobs yourself in realtime). LFOs, envelope generators, etc. Not to mention sequencing. You could just add a midi input module or expert sleepers and use a laptop for all the control.

EDITED Mar 16th 2019, 18:41

bought a z-dsp from @aphel and it was as smooth a purchase as one could hope for... highly reccomend! Thanks @aphel :)

Doepher A-100 P6

I think it's a pretty good start. You might want to reconsider the Rainmaker for such a small rack. I find it quite bulky (and expensive). The 4MS DLD might be an interesting module to look at, and then you'll have a bit extra space for something like 2HP verb which is quite essential for ambient I think.

Good luck!

I don't own anything modular as of yet, it's also going to take me some time to save for one. However I want a modular unit that is small and capable of ambient soundscapes and sound design. Does this unit look appropriate for those needs? Or am I missing anything essential?

Hey there, nice little 3-voice skiff! I’m building one myself. How are you finding the Pico mixer? It’s not too hard to adjust the levels with the tiny knobs? Thanks and have a blast with your kit!

Thanks @Lugia and @Dom78

Learning synthesis with my rack, I am trying to avoid pedals and DAW for the coming year at least. Trying to create everything within the modular system.

So from what you've said, I gather that the parts that make this warbly, lo-fi sound are:
* Pitch modulation
* Overdrive
* Filtering
* Chorus
* anything else?

Some follow up questions:
* Is it possible to modulate the pitch of my main output?
* For overdrive, I guess I could use a VCA?
* For chorus the DLD?

For reference, these are the modules I currently have:

Thanks!

That’s more like tape chorus edging into vibrato,I use a chase bliss warped vinyl for similar sounds, all I could really suggest is a couple of oscillators set up so the pitch and volume drift slowly through a set range with an LFO or such like, then filtered to taste.I’d definitely invest in a module to give you an FX loop for pedals though, the Busy Circuits SBG is great and gives you CV control over exp pedal inputs and the new 4ms listen I/O gives you two loops ( although getting the gain levels to suit two pedals/sound sources with one knob is a bit tricky ) or a true stereo I/O,or a loop and aux in.

Problem is, that's not all tape does. When you hit it with a loud signal, for example, tape can saturate, which tends to create a nice, warm, low-level distortion aspect. Also, do you want to emulate brand new Ampex 499, or a crusty 40 year old Echoplex loop? This will also make a difference, as the latter will have physical degradation that adds "character" to a sound. Overbiasing ups your highs, some tapes have more noise than others, then there's motor noise/hum from certain tape delays, and so on. Short of ponying up big bucks for an actual tape delay, my suggestion would be to look into some VST emulators of these devices as the best possible solution. There's quite a few out there (some are freeware, even), and some do a very convincing job of sounding like their physical counterparts. Otherwise, well, this might not be a thing that can be made to work 100% in a modular synth, since some of the things you're expecting from the sound just don't have module counterparts.

Yes, it's necessary. Your synth's line-out will either be at .775 or 1.4V maximum, and in practical terms lower than that. Audio signal voltages in modular synths, however, run anywhere from 5 to 10V peak-to-peak. The result without an input preamp will probably wind up not being all that useful, noisy, etc. Also, if you want the sound to do any control functions (ie: envelope following, gating, etc) you'll need an input module that allows for this by having a built-in envelope follower. This would allow you to do "auto-wah"-type processing by patching the envelope follower to the VCF cutoff.

As for something on the output side...if your mixer can handle the levels noted above, it should be OK. But at the same time, you're connecting a lot of different devices here, and every time you add a new one, your risk of ground loops and noise goes up. It's always best to send your output signal to the outside world via an output module that both attenuates the signal back down to proper line levels AND also isolates the mixer and modular from each other to prevent those noise issues.

One other note, also...if the input module's envelope follower also outputs a gate signal on the input reaching a certain level, you could then use that gate to trigger an envelope generator to impose an envelope on the VCF. For example, the EG could then control the cutoff, and the envelope follower output itself could then do something like contouring your VCF's resonance -- the louder the signal gets, the more the resonance increases, etc. That can be pretty useful, and another argument for using a proper input module.

Hi, I want to process the line level audio signal from my desktop synth through a eurorack filter and then to a line level desktop mixer. Question: Is an amplifier before and an attenuator after the eurorack filter necessary? Would it influence / improve the sound quality?

EDITED Mar 15th 2019, 21:21

Marketplace: location based notifications

In your user settings you now can set your country.
You should only get marketplace notifications of offers in your continent.
If you want to get ALL offers set to Automatic. That is the default.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/users/edit

I've loved using ModularGrid, thank you for this tool! It's very helpful for keeping a catalogue of my current gear as well as track gear I am not currently using in my main case.

As I recently went through the process of applying for equipment insurance, I found myself wanting MG to support private-view price adjustments -- eg. a user could see the value of a module new, but also enter custom price that they paid if it was used or DIY. This would help not only track for accounting purposes (not the most exciting use, I know), but it would provide users a truer sense of the value of what they're planning to bring to a show or on a trip. Only the logged-in user would be able to see this.

This custom info could perhaps be useful for used market analysis, but I think a privatized view would be wicked helpful.

Thanks for the consideration!

I'm trying to create tape emulation, similar to effects like Cooper FX: Generation Loss for instance, where you can modulate pitch, add noise and eq the incoming signal. I tried modulating the pitch on the DLD from 4MS but didn't get the results I was looking for. I'm missing the noise response I guess? I'm not sure... Any ideas on how to achieve such effect?

Here's a nice demo of Cooper FX: Generation Loss by Knob to demonstrate the effect I'm looking for:

Cheers!

EDITED Mar 15th 2019, 10:24

As far mixers.

The Blue Lantern Stereo Sir-Mix-A-Lot isn't bad. It has two stereo aux sends, two stereo returns, panning and mutes. I put one in my rack and don't mind it. It's inexpensive as far as mixers go. Happy Nerding and Roland also make decent mixers that also respond to CV for panning or panning/level depending on which brand you go with.

Not a bad idea, although the king of delay functionality is probably the Intellijel Rainmaker. It's bigger...but you could conceivably fit it if you yanked the Dual VCA and the Dynamix for starters, replacing them with a Codex u4xVCA (8 hp clone of the Mutable Veils) in the Dynamix's spot. This would also open up 2 hp in the top, which could then allow you to put a Xaoc Zadar in for four EGs in the spot now occupied by the one EG in the Contour. More cost, perhaps, but much more functionality!
-- Lugia

Another option for the 4XVCA could be the Doepfer A 135-2 which I find super useful and compact. Also, never used the Zadar, but I'd also consider Pamela's new workout.

Thanks to you two. I don't really think I'm going to do any more changes on the setup because right now it has somehow reached my financial limit at the time. Especially the Intellijel case. It looks handy though but I right now it's way out.
Regarding performability. I'm actually programming a sequencer right now, that generates CV and is connected via a Motu Audio interface. It's more or less an additional 10 channel VC-generator.
I'm really thankful for your advice!
Cheers
Seb

bought a simple but efficient DTM from @Plexusgel : sent it on time , strong box , and nice guy (thanks for new washers )
Recommended !

Ah-HAH! Yep, that's quite different from a typical CRT display. It reminds me of my days back years ago as a broadcast control engineer; the TV control had a number of displays which would show the spectral content or something of that sort (I worked in radio...not my department as such) which looked sort of like this might as viewed from the side. Very strange...I did do some experimentation with video feedback and oscillator injection techniques back in the late 1970s, trying to shoot for some of the ideas that I'd seen as a kid when PBS was showing some early video synthesis art circa 1970-71-ish. I know they had footage generated by the Paik/Abe rig at WGBH in that, plus some Dan Sandin and Steven Beck clips, etc. Eventually, it's something I'd like to get back toward as budget allows.

This rack is actually three, but they belong together, so to keep track of it all I've built them as one rack here.

The top row is a separate audio skiff, the second row is a modulation skiff, and the bottom two rows is the video rack.

The audio skiff is intended to be used in combination with an SQ-1, FX pedals, and a Muscarin, when it arrives: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/muscarin-semi-modular-synthesizer/ – it's mainly meant to make bizarre soundscapes, partly based on field recordings and stuff.

The modulation skiff can be used in combination with either or both the audio and video cases. It's intended to make chaotic and unpredictable, but somewhat controllable envelopes. In addition to controlling the synths, I'm also planning to use it for controlling lighting (!). A small PureData patch running on a Raspberry Pi takes CV input from the ES-8, processes it if neccessary (slew etc), translates it to a language that my lighting console speaks – currently OSC – and then it controls parameters such as pan/tilt on moving heads. This also works the other way: DMX/ArtNet/OSC from the lighting console is translated to CV which can influence what the control skiff does, or modulate video synth parameters, so that for instanve video colour and modulation speed matches the colour and movement of the lighting.

Depending on how this works out, I may build the control skiff as a 19" subrack that can be used either as a skiff or be racked in a flightcase together with the console.

Outboard video kit includes a PVM 9045QM, multiple Yuan DAC and ADC scaler/converters, Blackmagic Micro Cinema 4K for rescanning, and Blackmagic Video Assist 4K for monitoring/recording, and a good old BPMC Basic Cable for glitchy goodness. The video rack and outboard kit all currently fits in one rolling ThinkTank case – I'll need to do something smart to make the control skiff fit as well.

This rack is actually three, but they belong together, so to keep track of it all I've built them as one rack here.

The top row is a separate audio skiff, the second row is a modulation skiff, and the bottom two rows is the video rack.

The audio skiff is intended to be used in combination with an SQ-1, FX pedals, and a Muscarin, when it arrives: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/muscarin-semi-modular-synthesizer/ – it's mainly meant to make bizarre soundscapes, partly based on field recordings and stuff.

The modulation skiff can be used in combination with either or both the audio and video cases. It's intended to make chaotic and unpredictable, but somewhat controllable envelopes. In addition to controlling the synths, I'm also planning to use it for controlling lighting (!). A small PureData patch running on a Raspberry Pi takes CV input from the ES-8, processes it if neccessary (slew etc), translates it to a language that my lighting console speaks – currently OSC – and then it controls parameters such as pan/tilt on moving heads. This also works the other way: DMX/ArtNet/OSC from the lighting console is translated to CV which can influence what the control skiff does, or modulate video synth parameters, so that for instanve video colour and modulation speed matches the colour and movement of the lighting.

Depending on how this works out, I may build the control skiff as a 19" subrack that can be used either as a skiff or be racked in a flightcase together with the console.

Outboard video kit includes a PVM 9045QM, multiple Yuan DAC and ADC scaler/converters, Blackmagic Micro Cinema 4K for rescanning, and Blackmagic Video Assist 4K for monitoring/recording, and a good old BPMC Basic Cable for glitchy goodness. The video rack and outboard kit all currently fits in one rolling ThinkTank case – I'll need to do something smart to make the control skiff fit as well.

Ah, but that display is the whole point! :-) The 1340A is an X-Y display with brightness modulation, similar to the Leader LBO-51, Tek 608 and suchlike. It's not a video waveform monitor for diagnostics, but used for Rutt/Etra-style mangling of video images, like this:

A raster display, be it LCD or CRT, is not able to do this – without a vector-to-raster scan converter, that is, but that's a whole different game. This rack is intended specifically for vector image manipulation, all the raster stuff happens elsewhere. I think I already have enough LCD and CRT monitors for that – including an 8" PVM CRT which I haul to gigs. Can't do that tasty composite glitching on an LCD ;-)

Rescan cameras are Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K for the final output (off the 8" CRT) and a small Pelco surveillance camera for the HP vector display. May replace the latter with something that can be genlocked.

this is lit!!

Hi MG,

Thanks for the advice ! It's how I did in the past.
Just keep in mind a hires version of snapshot could be welcome from some users... Future implementation ?

Again, thanks for your very valuable site !

KR,
Pascal

Here’s a suggested build:

It lacks the ability to sync OSCs, but gives you 3 voice paraphonic cspability.
With the Intellijel 7U case this is running around $6k

EDITED Mar 14th 2019, 04:26

On a more constructive note:

Start with 3 micro Plaits. Malekko Varigate 8+ to sequence. Add a quad Envelope (Malekko or Zadar) and a quad VCA. Add a Batumi LFO with poti. Add the Black VCF, Three Sisters or QPAS, Black Hole DSP2, Erbeverb and a Fusion Mixer from Erica.
To add interest, I’d suggest: 2hp Arp, uOrnament&Crime, Turing machine and/or Marbles, ADDAC intuitive quantizer. There is also a Chordizer to make things easier.

I really like to have dedicated pitch, VCA, and VCF envelopes and at least one utility envelope, also, no less than two LFOs, also those envelopes had better be DAHDSR. I also require two filters: one 12/24 dB/Oct and an HPF. Per voice, that is.
That’s what my DSI Tempest does. Market rate: $1500 for a 6 voice polyphonic, dual VCO, two samples per voice synth with mod matrix, sequencer, and 16 Velo sensitive pads.

100% on the pricey part. Let's say you used a fairly basic VCO such as a Doepfer A-110-1 so that you can have sync and proper FM. Now, that streets for $200, more or less. So 12 of those is $2400 right there, if you keep following the 4-voice, 3-VCO example from my post above. Plus you also need four mixers; we'll use the Doepfer A-138b, keep it in the family. 4 x $80 = $320. Now we're at $2720...and we're not even to the VCF yet, nor do we have any LFOs for VCO modulation! Keep going along the same lines, and even a paraphonic 3-VCO 4-voice is going to wind up closing in on the Moog One 8-voice's price pretty soon. Might not hit it, but it'll still overshoot the vast majority of polysynths on the market right now.

Paraphonic operation might be more tenable, but still quite pricey.

I agree with Ronin here. Doing a true polyphonic modular build is going to result in something very large and very, VERY spendy. Let's say you're talking a four-voice system. This means you need 12 VCOs if you want three per voice, four mixers to sum each set to their respective VCFs (also four of those), four exponential VCAs for just the audio level processing, EIGHT envelope generators (one each for the VCFs, one each for the VCAs), a one-to-four buffered mult per voice to allow you to send buffered CV to each VCO plus the VCF cutoff, 12 LFOs so that you can have discrete modulation sources for the VCO sets, VCFs, and VCAs to get pitch, timbral, and dynamic modulation, a four-voice MIDI converter unless you have a four-voice analog keyboard laying around, and some sort of stereo mixer to give you a stereo spread of your voices. Plus, if you want CV panning per voice, then you'll need four MORE LFOs, or perhaps looping AD envelope gens to make that happen, plus a CVable pan per channel on the mixer. And that doesn't even cover such things as clocking for sequencing/arpeggiation (the latter being quite useful with a polysynth) and the necessary module(s) for those two functions, FX processing, a stereo output module, and ultimately, a case with the space and amperage to deal with all of that.

OTOH, an 8-voice Moog One costs $6k. Same architecture (3 VCO analog) with a lot more going on, program storage, built-in controllers, MIDI, all the usual fun stuff. And while $6k sounds like a pile, consider what the four-voice iteration above would wind up costing, with which you wouldn't get half the programming functionality. And far less clunky to tote around, given that the Moog fits in a case, and the modular would be in a cab about the size of a medium-sized HDTV.

Moral of the story: polysynths should be polysynths unless you have the space and budget of Junkie XL, and modulars don't make good polysynths for the typical user.

Hi,

Does anyone know if there are any differences between the Divkid mutes and the Noise Engineering - Muta Jovis except from the price?

Thanks in advance,

Jazzy

I'd suggest dropping the HP 1340A altogether. Instead, check some of the Eurorack LCD displays that can be mounted as a normal module. This would give you a smaller screen, but since this also means a smaller objective for the feedback cam, you can then use a smaller surveillance-type camera and mount this closer to the front panel for better ergonomics. Go with something bigger for your external mix monitor (again, LCD is better, especially if you want portability here, since a CRT monitor won't like being hauled around all that much), and then consider something like a Tektronix 1740A to monitor your image vectoring for diagnostics.

Better still, drop the mults (use inline ones instead...the build's too small to afford space for modules) and look into some clock modulation and logic modules. This way, you can actually manipulate the behavior of clocking in a lot of ways rather than just redistributing the same pulsetrain. Consider a skipper such as Ladik's S-090 and/or some sort of algorithmic/probabilistic trigger sequencer like Iron Ether Pithoprakta, as well.

Hmm, doesn't seem to be a problem on my Android phone. Works as usual. I don't have an iPad. In any case, Esc should be just fine. You don't have to keep this solution if it's causing an issue to users (although I admit I liked it!).
-- ParanormalPatroler

Sorry, I missed to write that I already had programmed a condition that checks for touch devices ...
but good to know that it works on Android :)

Hmm, doesn't seem to be a problem on my Android phone. Works as usual. I don't have an iPad. In any case, Esc should be just fine. You don't have to keep this solution if it's causing an issue to users (although I admit I liked it!).

Gimme a second to verify on my Android phone.

@ParanormalPatroler
... and I got desperate messages from iPad users because they could not edit modules in the rack anymore. On touch devices the mouse is always outside the boundaries. Every fix a new bug

@pnussbaum
The screenshot images generated by ModularGrid have a lower resolution in comparison to screenshots you manually create.
So use a screenshot utility for highest quality.

Firefox browser has a pretty good one included which takes screenshots from the whole site and not only the visible area.