This:

Sources are top-left, audio flows right thru filters and such. Maths and Turing Machine, plus P/S are lower-left to group mod sources, then the audio processing chain starts with the Freez to the Magneto. I/O is on lower right at the end of the processing set.

From my experience, following this sort of upward-on-left (control) and downward-on-right (audio) ordering method seems to work very well. You can clearly see the audio signal flow across the top row until it has to drop down to the processing and output, and the modulation is down and left so that it can reach "into" this path to affect the behavior of your sources and modifiers.

However, if you don't have a Clouds on hand already, you'll need to rethink that module, as it's been discontinued for quite some time. OTOH, removing it for a smaller third-party version would add some open space, and if that's the case, I strongly recommend adding some envelope gens to this alongside the Maths.

The 7U looks useful, but I've already built a 6U 104 HP case. It wouldn't be difficult to modify if I really felt the need to do so, though. I'm definitely going to sink an unhealthy amount of money into effects at some point. Right now I have to get operational. I can raid my pedalboard in the meantime. Here is my updated layout:

The Metropolis has been temporarily ejected due to cost constraints. I can use outboard sequencers. The Mixology is in there as a placeholder. I'm still researching options. Any recommendations on a simple, cost effective waveshaper? I know I still need a ring mod, too. Thanks.

Thanks for the reply and suggestion! I am limited on space, but don’t want to go t0o big, at least for now. Some of these (like the Erica Synths Multi to split the CV) I need specifically to help with the fact that I’ll be using a Microbrute, so was just wondering if I should have all of those modules together and then branch out from there. Is putting all of the like-modules together pretty much the standard, or is this your preference?

Maths offers two attack-decay envelopes. It can function in more complex manners with some creative patching. You'll want some ADSR envelopes somewhere as well. ADSR envelopes come in two general flavors: linear and exponential. Some ADSR units can do both. Intelligel makes a nice two EG unit for linear. Tip Top makes the Z4000 NS EG that can do both linear and exponential... and also gives you CV input to control each stage externally. You can find basic compact LFOs, like the Batumi with Poti expander with four LFOs available. I'd also recommend an Ornaments & Crime module for functions like quantizing and a basic sequencer. Sequencers do more than just play notes if you use them correctly. Think of it as a modulation source as well.

You're a bit limited on space so you might have a time trying to reorganize the modules.

I group all my oscillators together, then all of my filters, then my VCAs. My envelope generators, LFOs, etc go together. Then my effects go together. My outputs are usually near my VCAs or effects.

Hey everyone, Capt. Noobie here. Would anyone mind taking a look at my proposed rack and letting me know if there is a specific module placement within the rack you'd have all of these sitting? In order of functionality, like what modules should be placed right next to each other and work better with partner modules in this rack.

I'll be using a Microbrute as my controller btw. Thanks and much appreciated!!

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_874481.jpg

Tides is clouds v2, 2nd w/ is crow

This is slightly more functional. But you need more, more, more modulation sources. One Maths isn't going to get you far, especially not with modules that are hungry for modulation like... well, most of what you have here.

The Bernoulli gate and Trigger Riot both add probability. Also, there is Marbles around.

I’m actually somewhat on the fence about randomness. I do like probabilistic triggers, but not generative sequencing. It’s just not my thing.

OK...have a look at this: https://www.specialtystoreservices.com/productchild.aspx?productid=15858&group=2663b&img=2663b.jpg&category=5501

Now, we've all seen these things in clothing stores and other retail establishments. They're pretty ubiquitous store fixtures, and you can get all sorts of attachments to put various shelves, posts, etc on them. They're pretty sturdy...and they're cheap...as you can see.

So? OK, here's so...let's say you have a bunch of 84 hp or 104 hp skiffs (or even a bit larger). With gridwall, you can get very cheap matching attachments such as shelves with lipped fronts that will hold these nicely. Some even have some angling to them, and other attachments can easily be adapted to hold controllers and such, also with angling in some cases. Then, start adding up the prices (which you can see typical examples of at the site above). Suddenly you have this way to make a CHEAP skiff holder that you can build into an easy-peasy 2'x6' synthwall over time. Need more width? Get more and link 'em together. And these not only look pretty decent and are durable, but with the open back you can easily dress cabling through the grid and keep things like power and audio connections out of the way. Plus, if it feels like the gridwall is getting tippy, just add a cheap shelf on the backside and put some bricks on it to act as a counterweight.

I'm going to be going to something like this for my smaller devices...CZ-101, SK-5, VSS-30, a couple of Boss DR-220s, the Microbrute, etc etc. But this also has a pile of uses for those doing Eurorack builds, especially those of you who are trying to build up a large system in smaller increments over time. Unlike some stand systems, there'll never be a discontinuation of gridwall, and it can be gotten from a lot of different store fixture companies located all over the place. Hopefully that's a useful tip!

Yep...actually, I'm partial to version #2, but here's a few tweak ideas there: first, if the M32 can function as MIDI-CV (which should be doable with the MScales), or the 0-Coast or System 1m, you can remove the A-190-2. Then if you remove the A-130 as well, you have ample space for an Intellijel Quad VCA, which not only gives you four VCAs (more VCAs = good) that have sweepable response curves, you also get some mixing functionality in the bargain, and this actually costs $10 less. Plus, pull the A-140 out and replace it with a Doepfer A-140-2 which, if you select the inverse envelope jumper function, then gives you positive and negative envelopes on each ADSR's output. Almost like having four ADSRs in the space currently filled by one for about $60 more. Not a bad tradeoff.

Mm-hmm! And don't forget the usefulness of adding randomization in that, such as probabilistic skippers and sequencers. Two that come to mind are Ladik's dual skipper and the Pithoprakta probabilistic sequencer. This is also where comparators get useful, too...having one on an LFO to "go high" when your modulation signal goes into a peak positive value on a slow LFO curve can be a great way to suddenly and automatically alter the behavior of the whole trig/gate setup in conjunction with some logic gating.

No. In fact, connecting a module P/S to a bus that's also being powered by another internal P/S can have disastrous results if one or the other has no reverse current protection.

Oh, I like effects just fine...when there's room for them. The problem is that many good ones take up a lot of hp, and in a small build that can be a problem, especially when the intent of the build is to create something with a lot of use options. In those cases, it's best to concentrate on synth function modules and leave FX as something for outboard, or to go with the smallest possible acceptable options. Even so, there's some killer small effects modules, like Purrtronics' Purrvrrb, Feedback's Chorus 106, the PICO DSP, etc with all of those going the extra distance to work as "stereoizing" modules for modulars which have primarily mono audio paths.

The big, most common no-no is probably the one involving using a multiple as a mixer. This won't work; it has the same effect as output-to-output patching. Multiples are always 1-in, many-out devices. To combine signals, you have to use a mixer, adder, OR combiner, etc depending on which signal is in play and/or what you want to do with the combination.

And while it's true that most modules these days have reverse signal protection on their outputs, you should always assume that they don't, and never patch an output to an output except in the few, ultra-rare cases where a manufacturer says there's a function that you can access by doing so. The reverse is fine, though...patching an input to an input is not only safe, it's what happens in a multiple.

A third patching mistake would be trying to patch a line-level (or worse, instrument-level) signal directly into a patch. This won't work well in varying degrees; external signals MUST be preamplified before they can be part of a modular synth patch. As for patching your output directly to a line input on a mixer, effects unit, amp, etc...this can be problematic if the input you're patching to isn't capable of handling the signal levels typical in a modular synth, which can range at peak from between 5 to 10 volts peak-to-peak. Some can deal with it, some can't, so it's best to have an output module of some sort, or even just an attenuator at the end of the patch to lower the level so that everything outside the synth is happy.

Patch mistake #4 involves patching one synth to another if they're not running on the same ground. This isn't as problematic for synths that run on DC via an external "wall-wart" or "brick" supply, but is very much a concern if the synth has an internal power supply on which the synth's groundplane is connected to the AC ground. If these sorts of synths aren't fed from the same AC outlets with the same grounding circuit, you run a very real risk of ground loops, which cause lots of hum and noise in audio paths and ripple currents in CV/modulation ones. The real and permanent fix to this, of course, is to star-ground everything in your studio to a single grounding point, usually on your mixer or A/D interface, but if you don't have that luxury, then making sure everything you're patching between is on a single AC circuit should work fine.

I bought a couple of Muta Jovis modules. Perhaps they are just mine, but there's a voltage drop when plugging in CV. So I wouldn't use them for anything pitch related. You may also suffer a pop when using them for audio.

The DivKid mutes are based on fast acting low pass gates (vactrols). So rather than being immediately off they rapidly bring the volume down or up (like a very, very fast fade). I'd probably go with the DivKid mutes if I was purchasing it all over again. That's my $0.02.

I would start thinking about effects. A nice reverb, a nice delay, maybe something like a Rain Maker or a Monsoon (expanded version of Mutable Instruments Clouds).

As far as synth modules, an Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4 is a cheap (under $200) add and has plenty of functions. An Ornaments & Crime module would serve you well as well.

Take it slow and really get to know your new stuff. Try to squeeze as much creatively out of what you have as possible... then get a feeling of where you'd like to explore. Modules like O_C and Disting are multifunctional. If you're using a particular function a lot, you might consider a dedicated module for that purpose... for example if you're using the quantizer a lot.

Don't be afraid to make a wild, one-off purchase every now and then too... sometimes something weird shakes things up a bit.

Thanks very much for your advices Lugia. Your remarks gave me a better understanding of the way a modular can be built up.

So, considering your suggestions, I modified the rack.
Here is the v2 :

And then, a likely sufficient but cheaper version (2000€ being a maximum amount, at least as a first step... :))

Your final judgment would be very valuable.

Ah - I didn't realize that you still had the Mother 32. In that case, it should be perfectly fine to use the "KB Output" and "Gate Output" from the Mother (note though, that the Mother outputs -5V to 5V for V/oct, and I believe that the Plaits need positive V, so you may need to go up five octaves on the Mother to get positive V/oct ... or you can use Maths to add offset). But to get started, I really don't think that you need anything else at the moment (if anything, the Disting).

Another good advise is to go slowly in the beginning. It really is impossible to anticipate what you will find interesting and what you will eventually need. So start with a few modules. Push them as far as you can. Then it will become clear where to go next. The journey is the destination. :)

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 19:39

Thanks. I think I'm going to order the Cooper Traces unit, although it looks like there will be a short delay ordering from Perfect Circuit. What do you think about using the sequencer from the Moog Mother 32 in the meantime? It also looks I could possibly use the Gate Out of the Grandmother into a CV input on the Plaits. Let me know what you think about this short term solution.

I’ve started to become intrigued by the use of clock dividers, Bernoulli gates, Clocked/CV controlled attenuverters, Logic gates, LFOs, and switched multiples as an alternative to sequencers.

As in:
Trigger Riot, Klavis Mixwitch and Logica XT, ADDAC gates, Bizmuth, and Pamela’s New Workout, and Branches and two switched multiples all next to each other.

Hello!

My name's Jesse McClear... and I'm an electronic musician from the Metro Detroit area. The reason I'm writing, is that I'm trying to get a small business going... making eurorack cable hangers, studio desks, etc.

I currently have a eurorack cable hanger up on Kickstarter (only 7 days left!). I just wanted to share the links below, feel free to pass it along! I'd really appreciate it. Thank you!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jjmcclear/the-hex-01

https://www.instagram.com/eurodeskz/

https://www.eurodesk-z.com

Kind Regards,

Jesse McClear

all good advice, multiple sequencers - so you can sequence the sequencer (ie transpose)

the simple ones are really useful

even if in the future you decide you want a more complex sequencer, you can use the simpler ones for transposing or for general CV generation

how are you currently playing/sequencing???

I think this looks like a great start, and you don't need much more to get going.

One suggestion would be to find a way to generate CVs for notes and triggers. For example, with an FH-2 from Expert Sleepers, you can connect a USB midi keyboard to trigger and play different notes on the Plaits. Without a keyboard, there are a couple of other options. You could add a small sequencer (e.g., SEEK from Copper Traces). You could add a bigger sequencer (e.g., Rene2) but then you would also need a clock (e.g., Pamela's New Workout), and then you are well on your way down the rabbit hole. You could add a quantizer, and let the Maths drive the tones. Or, you could add a random generator (e.g., Marbles from Mutable Instruments) for triggers and notes.

Other than that, I can recommend a Disting Mk IV. It is the Swiss army knife of modules. It can be a quantizer, random generator, sample player, recorder, envelope generator, LFO, VCO, or fifty other things, all by itself. It is great for learning what module you need next. E.g, if you always end up using it as an LFO, then you need a dedicated LFO.

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 14:01

Marketplace: new regions

Added Africa and Asia to the Marketplace

Also, I feel like this may be a daft question. But is the Row Power essential if I have a powered case?

So I have taken on the constructive criticisms of my first rack and I feel like this may be an improvement?

I will keep Plaits as I do require an oscillator and I love it's versatility, Ears is included so that I can input external audio from contact mics/other synths, etc. Whilst I may consider a MIDI interface for control via my Teenage Engineering OP-1 in the future, I have lef tthat out for now.

Although some said that Rainmaker takes up too much room, after researching it I still want it as part of my system, due to the sound design capabilities. Lofi Junky is also a must have for me.

So other than that, upon becoming aware of my lack of any VCA's or modulation sources - I feel that Maths and Veils would be appropriate. What does anyone else think?

I have left room for other modules in the future such as Yarns/Clouds/Magneto.

Does this appear to be a more functional version of my first post?

A few suggestions in addition to the excellent suggestions that Lugia made:

Switch to an Intellijel 7U case and put the noise, S&H, Quadratt, and audio I/O, perhaps MIDI module, if you need it.
Do you need all the functions of the metropolis or would a Varigate 8+ get you sorted?
You do need an envelope generator. Consider the XAOC Zadar or Malekko Quad Envelope.
Look at the micro version of certain modules, such as Beehive from Michigan Synth Works instead of Plaits.
The signal mingler looks interesting, but again quite a bit of HP. While not exactly the same, the Klavis Mixwitch does a good amount of the same, but you could add the Logica XT on top of it and get more out of it.
I know Lugia is not keen on FX modules, but I do like them. The question is always: how much control do you really need? Do you just want to add a little richness by adding a touch of delay and reverb, or do you intend to use it as an actual integral component of a patch where the FX changes in character? For the latter, you do need more control. For the former, consider the 2hp Delay and Reverb, or the Pico DSP. The Black Hole DSP2 is also nice and offers a bit more control and stereo. 2hp is hard to beat as a utility FX.
A nice mixer for your setup would be the XAOC Praga.

The power ribbon to the modules is most important. The -12V on the busboard should only be connected to -12V on a module. Twisting the ribbon and getting it wrong can do serious damage.

Other than that, the general advise is not to connect the output from one module to the output from another. But I have done exactly that myself, by accident, countless times when patching. The patches didn't work, but I have never done any damage to a module. I believe it was more of an issue with older modules. Newer modules are expected to be able to handle output to output.

I have also never had problems with voltages outside specified ranges, i.e., patching a negative voltage, say from a bipolar LFO, to the 1V/oct input on an oscillator that requires a positive voltage, or patching a 10V CV to an input that maxes out at 5V. It may not work as intended, but no damage is done.

Other than the power ribbon, don't worry, patch away ... :)

[edited for typos]

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 08:16

If you look at things like the Lightbath videos, something is sequencing the voices... in his Loom series, for example, it's Mutable's "Marbles" module.

If you are only processing external audio, I'd suggest replacing Plaits with something like Batumi or Pam's New Workout (and you'd have a little room left for another modulation source in 2-4 hp). That way, you could bring a signal in through Ears, process it with Rings and Rainmaker, and use Batumi/Pam's/extra little module to modulate various parameters.

If, on the other hand, you expect this system to generate all of your sound, you're going to be disappointed. As Lugia said, you need modulation sources... this system has none (in those same Lightbath videos, he uses Mutable's "Stages" module for this role... and in his other videos, he uses many other things).

One other thing I'd suggest... go for 104 HP instead of 84. The size difference is small, and the cost difference will be negligible, but it will give you more flexibility.

Hi all,
Here is a quick newbie question as I start exploring a modular setup for the first time. Is there anything in a modular rig that should not be connected together? I don't want to damage my modules but want to be able to experiment. Maybe there is an article or post but have not had luck finding one.
Thanks,
The Doc

Lugia,
Thanks for the great feedback, really appreciate you taking the time.
Looking forward to my adventure.

Actually, that was a rather nice haul. To make that an individual system, you'd need a VCF or two, some envelope generators, some more VCAs (preferably something with mixing capability, such as Intellijel's Quad VCA) and more modulation complexity, such as a Maths. The Waldorf + Elements pairing is super-enviable...wavetable/sampling paired with modelling will be a killer voicing combo.

Actually, Tiptop just dropped a new module that might be a key piece in manipulating modulation signals in the way you need. Have a look at their new MISO module, which is a complex arithmetical mixer intended for CV/mod use. Pairing that with something such as a Xaoc Batumi would make for an incredible and playable combo. Plus, a good complex drone VCO that you should be able to get some mileage out of would be the Synthesis Technology E352 Morphing Terrarium, a dual digital VCO with extensive timbral morph capabilities.

Great feedback. I see what you mean re: primary function vs. secondary/complementary function. The MG function search might have been adding to my confusion a bit, too. I'll check out some videos of the Mixology. Thanks.

Hello anyone willing to give this a look. I have some modules I picked up used and found floating around locally so I know this is not the best thought out system, yet. I also will be getting a Make Noise Black and Gold Shared System Plus that these modules will integrate with. Any suggestions to make this a standalone without the Make Noise would be appreciated.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_875073.jpg

Thanks,

The Doc

Sorry if I was unclear, I already have Clouds, and Rings and Frames will arrive this week.

@goodbyebluesky82 , thanks for your input. I've only played around with Clouds for a few hours, but I see what you mean. I'm hoping that Frames will help me with the attenuation part, but I am thinking about additional generators. Do you have any ideas? Pamela's new workout looks interesting!

Clouds is actually more affordable than ever, since it was so popular that many good builders sell their own builds on Reverb. That said, I have been exploring my Clouds for a bit and learned that without other sources to modulate / effect the individual parameters, it is a bit underwhelming. Random cv generators, LFO or function generators, combined with attenuator to control the amount of modulation over the different parameters on Clouds are what really open that module up.

PS. I dig the name of your build.

EDITED Mar 18th 2019, 20:41

Budget = £1000+

Sampler
Filter
Trigger (SEQ)
Input (to sample)
Output (to system)
Modulation (LFO etc)
Reverb/Delay
Feedback?

:)

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_874982.jpg

I hope this works. I am completely new to working with eurorack. Previous to starting this adventure, I have used a Korg MS-20, Moog Mother 32, DFAM, and Moog Grandmother. What should my next module be? I received these module units (in the link) in the last 2 weeks and hope to sit down with them this week and experiment. Looking to add a couple more and then really sit down and just try everything imaginable. Look forward to hearing suggestions.

I would go with a couple of simple sequencers first. If they have the option to be reset/synced, they'll fold nicely into a more complex set-up.
-- Ronin1973

Absolutely. Two or three of these simplistic devices coupled with a clock divider, precision adder and a quantizer will generate complex sequences like you never dreamt. Spending a couple dozen hours with those will give you a much more educated idea of what to look for in the big iron.

EDITED Mar 18th 2019, 18:30

I agree entirely with Ronin's description of sequencers. I use XAOC Tirana II as a simple utility sequencer. Rene2 as an "immediate" sequencer, and I just using NerdSeq as a more "structured" sequencer. They have very different strengths, and it is not a problem to use all of them together.

Tirana II is excellent for creating simple gates and CV changes during a patch. I use Rene2 for improvisation and melodies. With the knobs, buttons, and snakes, I find it very immediate and inspiring. I use NerdSeq for more fundamental building blocks of a song: rhythms, melodies, samples. It is less immediate and requires some planning and a more structured approach.

Very different machines. It comes down to taste and workflow.

The Wasp Filter is a particular filter and not very general. I think a dedicated multimode filter would serve you better as a first filter.

Drop the Optimix and the Wasp and put in something like an Intellijel Morgasmatron. You'll get a lot more use out of it seeing it has two multimode filters and a lot of modulation options.

Well, you'll probably want more than one sequencer. I know. That's not what you want to hear.

I generally lump sequencers into two categories: simple and complex.

Think of a simple sequencer as an 8 or 16 step sequencer that can control CV and gate (perhaps just one of the two). The Pittsburgh Modular micro 8 step sequencer, Befacos Muxlicer, Noise Engineering Mimetic Digitalis fit the bill as well as the Sequins mode of Ornaments and Crime.

A complex sequencer would be like the Eloquencer, 1010 Music Toolbox, NerdSequencer, etc. Most of them you can save your patterns in and construct entire songs.

I would go with a couple of simple sequencers first. If they have the option to be reset/synced, they'll fold nicely into a more complex set-up.

The complex sequencer is more about personal preference. With the more complex sequencers you tend to trade off real time controls for depth and the ability to recall your work.

Don't be afraid to be wrong. Order from a place that has a great return/exchange policy. A 30 day period is usually good. You don't know what's going to work for you until you've had a chance to get in depth with it.

As far as the Neutron, keep it. You'll find it more useful as your system expands. Sometimes you want to just create a sound quickly without a lot of patching. Having an all-in-one synth voice lying around can help with your inspiration rather than trying to patch the equivalent together and losing inspiration.

thanks @fluffymuff for the really smooth transaction. perfect.

One note: unless you have a Clouds or are willing to find a used one, you'll need to use a third-party build of it, as Mutable discontinued production of it quite some time ago.

The latter...using the Disting and other modules to substitute for a relatively simple module such as a noise gen and sample & hold is sort of a waste of the more complex functions they're capable of. That's the real reason for them; leave basic functions to basic modules. Also, the thing about noise is that it comes in a number of different "colors", which are different distributions of noise levels across a given span of spectrum. For example, "blue" noise is weighted more toward higher frequencies, while "red" is heavier on low-end spectral components. When you use these as a source of randomly-distributed signals, these frequency differences translate into different types of behavior by sample & holds, when used as modulation signas, and the like. So while having a noise source is essential, it's also important to be able to control that "colored" distribution factor.

A buffered mult can technically be used for the same function as a passive mult, yes. But they're not the same, so if a given patch function relies on a voltage sag for some of its behavior, a buffered mult won't allow that to occur. And of course in all cases, you cannot mix via a mult -- they only function as one-in, many-out.

Pannable mixer? As of late, I really like Qu-bit's Mixology. It gives you CV over level, pan, AUX send per channel, has an effect send/return, metering, and mute and solo functions, all in 28 hp for $400, which is pretty reasonable as performance mixers go. There are probably cheaper methods, but they'd involve building up a mixer with discrete modules, plus you might not have all of the functionality the Mixology offers for its price.

So far, so good. My preference for an external input module is actually the Doepfer A-119, as it gives you a better choice of external connections. Another thing you should consider would be some modules to extend the capabilities of the sequencers, such as logic, clock modulators, divide/multipliers and so on. These will let you create some rather complex interactions between the hardware sequencers you already have. You might also double down on some basic modules here, such as VCAs, EGs and LFOs to add some modulation complexity, plus the use of linear VCAs to control/change CV/mod signal levels as needed. Last, look at getting one or two Erica PICO MScales so you can easily translate back and forth between the M32 and DFAM CVs and everything else, keeping everyone in the proper scaling.

Yes a MIDI input module could be a good idea, as I have an OP-1. Although I figured that Ears could be a good way of inputting external audio. Although I'll be honest, I'm suprised to hear some say this wont work - yes I am new to modular, but I've seen quite a few videos on Youtube (Lightbath, etc.) and Instagram of people using small units with similar modulars, and they units generate the warm ambient soundscapes that I wish to.

I just bought Frames because of the many purposes it seems to serve. I'm interested in using it as a mixer, but also as a primitive sequencer that I'd program (frame) by using the Minibrute.