Sorry missed this, but yes - totally doable, but will cost a bit!!

One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.

Set the chords up on Argos Bleak

Set 4 steps, one each to the correct voltage to trigger the chord in Argos Bleak, then set to play on random on Stillson hammer MK][ for 25% probability. To increase the probability distribute the voltages across the number of steps in your sequence - think about what having two steps on the same voltage in a 5 step sequence on random would do to the probability.

-- Kel_

I've had a look at this - at last! :-) - and as best my befuddled brain can gather, this gives each chord a certain probability of sounding. In other words, each chord has its own probability which is in no way influenced by any other chord, particularly the chord that's currently playing.

Is that right?

If not, ignore the rest of this post :-)

What I'd like to try is for the current chord to affect the probability of the next one. Eg, if the current chord is C, then Am might have a 20% chance of playing and G a 60% chance. If the current chord was Dm, Am might have a 50% chance of playing, etc.


Really, no one?


Ah...!

Harvestman is the name of the COMPANY that made the modules. I thought it was the name of a module. Doh!

Sorry.

Alles ist klar
:-)


Not heard of the MS-20ic. Interesting.

The desire for a MS-20 (or clone) is def a throwback for me :-) I lusted after one of these back in the day.

I had an original Roland 100M system but sold it when MIDI arrived - I saw the writing on the wall for analogue! :-) I don't regret it as I wanted polyphonic stuff. And not tempted even by Behringer's 100m-a-like.

I'm in the UK and most MS-20 mini sellers (ebay) want MORE than you can buy a new one for. Crazy. I wish my customers were as ignorant :-)

And I DO like the form factor as you say. The diff between a Behringer and the real thing over here is only about £180. The interest in the behringer was more a space issue and potential Eurorack connectivity.

At the time I also lusted after an ARP 2600. Really interested in Korg's re-issue - until I saw the price :-)

Oddly, I watched 3 demos on YT by Korg's Luke (I think), all basically the ame and done for different shops. Just scratched the surface but ultimately disappointing and cured me of my luisting :-) I just hope I don't see any really good demos... :-)


I'll vouch for the Mantis. I have two of them joined together with the optional mounting brackets.
-- farkas

Good to hear coz the Mantis is looking increasingly liley :-)

Also like the fact that you can join two. And good VFM.

The Putts look great but I'd struggle to put them in the VFM category :-) But I guess that is subjective.Or maybe more to do with the fact that it costs an arm and a leg to get into this before you actually start spending arms and legs... :-)


If I was clever, I'd be tempted to make a case, too. Why do you need a router?
-- iantrader

To cut out wooden shapes for the case sides that are to my own designs. :)

-- wishbonebrewery

Ah... Most people who do DIY cases tend just to use rectangles :-)

They do look boxy but then so do most cases, esp Doepfer.

If you have a local Maker group, someone there will probably have one.


You'd also want a router to set up ventilation cuts in your cab's back, sort of like how 2Egress does with some of their huge Eurorack designs. And it's easy enough to put some fabric or foam covering on the inside there to keep random objects out of the cuts.

Cool circuits are HAPPY circuits, after all!


Take a look a HydraSynth...

Or not. I had a really icky and unpleasant experience with one of Ashun's N.Am reps, put me right off that synth. I went with a Modal Argon8 instead...rather similar, with an extra oscillator per voice, plus the company is a LOT easier to work and communicate with. And the Argon8 is cheaper. You do lose that polyaftertouch + ribbon controller...but given that I've got a CS-80, I ain't hurtin' for a workout with those.


There ARE Eurorack modules that can standard-shift from Korg's standard to Euro and vice-versa, though.

Fact is, this is a bit of a throwback to the "bad ol' days" where there WERE a lot of different interfacing standards. Korg and Yamaha both used the Hz/V and negative trigger/gate standard, EML had their 1/12V steps, Moog had the awful, rotten, ROT-TEN S-trigger system, and things like the Buchla 100 were off in wackyland, with no real scaling and two different signal paths for audio and control signals. When MIDI came along, some of this was still going on...and remained as an annoying "latency" for those using the older gear. That we have to deal with these NOW is due to either exact replication (Korg's redux of the MS-20, or EMW's rework of the EML 200/300) or outright copying with no foresight to correcting these shortcomings (Behringer's you-name-it).

Do yourself a favor though, and grab an MS-20 mini on the used market (where there's plenty). Be careful to NOT buy an MS-20ic, though, as those were just gimmicky controllers for a software analog emulation system Korg kicked out many years back, and some unscrupulous/ignorant sellers try and foist these off as MS-20 minis. Look for the BLACK nut around the phones jack; the ic has a silver one. Anyway, even with the voltage standard issues, the MS-20 (of any sort) is a real face-ripper! It's hard to say what's the most fun about it, too...the VCF pair? The input section (drum machine + that = instant Aphex Twin!)? The fubar patching routings? Really, it's a fun little box, not to be idly dismissed. But do get the real thing; a lot of the point of that synth DOES depend on its form factor, which still works at 81% size.


Hehe - sure!!

That's a variant of an old Russian Oscillator - not sure what the relevance is here?

-- Kel_

They were the modules you said you used:
One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.

I'm checking them out and trying to work out how they fit together to do what you do.

Some interesting IME stuff there :-)


If I was clever, I'd be tempted to make a case, too. Why do you need a router?
-- iantrader

To cut out wooden shapes for the case sides that are to my own designs. :)

Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.

https://youtube.com/@wishbonebrewery


Started getting notifications again... thanks whoever fixed this

...or if it was just random - thank you random power in the universe?


I'll vouch for the Mantis. I have two of them joined together with the optional mounting brackets. They have plenty of power for my needs, enough connections for my needs, and are deep enough for my needs. I believe they state that the bottom row is 60mm or so deep, but with cables and everything installed it seems a little shallower than that. I would be hesitant to try to install any of the super deep Doepfer modules. Most modules fit perfectly though, just be mindful of module dimensions listed here on Modular Grid. I also like that I am not eating up hp with power modules.
It might not be cool to say, but the Mantis looks pretty good too. My wife calls it "the spaceship". I don't think I would feel comfortable taking it to a live gig, but it performs (and looks) great in the studio. I picked up a few Make Noise skiffs in case I need something more mobile.
If I hadn't decided on the Mantis, I would have definitely chosen one of the Pittsburgh Modular offerings. They are an excellent value.


Oh dear. Sorry to hear that. Do you think it's a general problem with the RackBrute or did you have a faulty unit? Arturia stuff usually seems pretty reliable.

Not used Bax. They have a great deal on the RackBrute which makes it tempting. Not tempting at its usual price :-)

If I was clever, I'd be tempted to make a case, too. Why do you need a router?

I'm also still confused about power supplies which is why I'd prefer one ready-installed.

uZeus seems to be one of the most popular but someone in another forum said they had problems with it.

SynthRacks recommends the TipTop Zeus Studio Bus. The dost for a 9U case is more than the case itself!!

The Mantis is probably currently top of the list although I'm still looking :-)


These are pretty advanced modules not the easiest to use, but they definitely reward time and patience and then become seriously good fun - definitely amongst my favourites!!


Hehe - sure!!

That's a variant of an old Russian Oscillator - not sure what the relevance is here?

Argos Bleak:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/industrial-music-electronics-argos-bleak

Stillson Hammer:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/industrial-music-electronics-stillson-hammer-mkii


Ah, is this it:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/industrial-music-electronics-polivoks-vcg-mkii

There was a smiley after my sequencer comment :-)


Final word, if you want 4 or even 6 voices that sound the same, get yourself a nice polyphonic synth, a modular is a wall of often very distinct and different sounding signal paths.
-- GunnarWaage

This!

Take a look a HydraSynth - very modular in it's philosophy with it's delightful and very comprehensive patch matrix and 8 voices, 3 osc per voice, plus mods, various flavours of noise, 5 LFO, 5 Envelopes... very digital and excels at glass/FM/etc., and while it is definitely not - it can sound very dirty and analogue and squelchy too, oh and built in effects that sound great... and true polyphonic aftertouch - per note!


I feel the polyphonic discussion is a little misguided, Modular synths are monophonic, if you want a polyphonic synth I use other instruments for that which are polyphonic. What is so spectacular about a modular synth are the harmonically rich and sometimes larger than life soundscapes you can obtain with a well constructed modular voice. Those types of sounds are not well suited to use in chords, you will simply need to strip down those sounds and make them more narrow, so now the whole polyphonic idea looks quite a bit different.

Think of a modular as a string quartet where you have different voices, each with its own distinct signal path and each playing a different role in your composition.

The 4ms 6 oscillator wave table module is an impressive piece of gear, it's pretty and it comes with a nice software that allows you to edit and morph between wave tables. For the price of it you could buy 4 different oscillators, take each of them through different signal paths and come out with a more rich orchestral overall picture, each voice obtaining clarity and definition, Check out Doepher, Dreadbox and other companys that make quality modules, the Behringer Neutron mentioned above is a very good semimodular synth, there you already have two voices and you can patch in and out of it in many different ways, for a wavetable synth check out Waldorf, I think you can get 3 of them for the price of the 4ms module. But you need to do your homework, nobody can tell you what to buy. Pretty much all the modules on Modulargrid are presented on youtube and going through that material is highly educational.

You need filters and/or low pass gates, a blend of the two is good, you need envelopes, you need vca's, a mixer that takes both cv and audio signals and with an output which is audio level, effects. Maths is good in that it has different functions, it's a slew limiter, a mixer and an attenuator. It can do a number of things, again a semimodular like the Neutron, although it is more of a east cost synth while Maths is a take on an old Buchla module, will serve you better in the beginning. But you need to study, there is a ton of material out there. Final word, if you want 4 or even 6 voices that sound the same, get yourself a nice polyphonic synth, a modular is a wall of often very distinct and different sounding signal paths.


Hi Senor-Bling,

Thanks a lot, yes you are right, the 961 is for triggers only, not for the V/Oct to Hz/V conversion.

Kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Hi LilP,

You are welcome. Okay good to know that you don't have a (HP) space issue, then of course you can ignore all my comments regarding HP-space :-)

I am quite happy with my Doepfer mixer modules A-138p and A-138o. The A-138o is for the output and the A-138p provides you a four-channel mixer that's chain-able, and that's the part of it that I like most that you can just add another A-138p module if you need after a while more than 4 channels, you can add just another A-138p (no extra A-138o needed by the way) and you got 8 channels instead of 4 channels, etcetera. If I could effort it, I would have gone directly for the A-135-4A/B/C but it's possible to mix-up the A-135-4A/B/C with the A-138p, so you could start with the A-138p and in the future add an A-135-4A/B/C set to it.

Another mixer that might be interesting is the WMD - Performance Mixer, then you get straight away 8 channels and another 2 stereo channels can be added with the Channels Expand module.

Filters is really difficult and might be very personal as well depending on your personal taste. The filter I am most happy with is the Doepfer A-124 VCF-5 WASP filter and recently I rediscovered my Waldorf - VCF1 filter, if you get to know it, that one is pretty nice too, it's on offer at some dealers in Europe. Also the Doepfer A-106-5 SEM filter has its charms. I got an Erica Synths - Black Polivoks VCF as well but it somehow disappoints me, I usually like Erica Synths products but their filters can't convince me so far. And, bit of a cliché but last and not least... I have to admit that my current setup is a bit weak on filters (other than the above mentioned ones), I just can't find more/nice filters that make me totally happy. I have a bit the same with VCAs, can't find the perfect one, other than the Waldorf - DVCA1, that's by the way a fantastic dual VCA. I just ordered a second one because, though it's big in HP-space, it's seriously nice and good to use. No other VCA really had convinced me so far. The Erica Synths - Black VCA is quite okay as well but not as good as the DVCA1.

I am quite happy with my Intellijel - Audio I/O module, it's my main audio input/output interface module, the Befaco - Out v3 is not too bad either and has as a pro a headphones output. If you like XLR ins and outs then you should consider the ACL - Audio Interface that's a pretty good one too I think.

As some members mention here in this Forum: There is no real bad or real good, it's at the end totally up to you what you like and what you prefer to use. If you have an opportunity to test modules at a local dealer then you should use that opportunity, like that I could rule out some modules of which I really thought I would love them but at the end they were pretty disappointing.

I strongly would recommend to start slowly with a few modules only, build up experience with those. You not only gain experience with those modules but you already get a clearer focus for yourself where you like to look at more closely and from there you decide then to take a few more modules, again build up more experience, etcetera.

Have fun with it and enjoy modular, it's great! :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: Removed typos.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


I sent my Rackbrute 6U back and I'm currently waiting for a Refund from Bax-shop.co.uk it had overheating problems versus the simple Tiptop happy ending cases/power I already have. I won't buy anything from bax-shop again, even before Covid their email response was slow.
I need to find someone with a CNC router and I'll design and build my own, starting with the Tiptop uZeus power I have, then probably buy om Konstantlab Power at a later date.

Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.

https://youtube.com/@wishbonebrewery


The Harvestman is now IME:

I think this link works:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/browser?SearchName=&SearchVendor=74&SearchFunction=&SearchSecondaryfunction=&SearchHeight=&SearchTe=&SearchTemethod=max&SearchBuildtype=&SearchLifecycle=&SearchSet=all&SearchMarketplace=&SearchIsmodeled=0&SearchShowothers=0&order=newest&direction=asc

If you select each step randomly is it a sequencer any more?

I suggest that in that moment it is not, it is masquerading as a random voltage selector i.e. your source of probability!

Cheating? Hehe... we might have different ideas about what this is all about ;)


Wow, thanks. Having trouble locating Harvestman. Is it in the Modules list?

I sort of think a sequencer is cheating :-) but maybe not.

I'll check these out and post back.

Great!


Oops, forgot to say of course any sequencer will do the job in the first scenario, I was just saying what I personally use to do these kinds of things :)


Sorry missed this, but yes - totally doable, but will cost a bit!!

One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.

Set the chords up on Argos Bleak

Set 4 steps, one each to the correct voltage to trigger the chord in Argos Bleak, then set to play on random on Stillson hammer MK][ for 25% probability. To increase the probability distribute the voltages across the number of steps in your sequence - think about what having two steps on the same voltage in a 5 step sequence on random would do to the probability.

Another way would be with Monome Teletype - it would involve creating a look up table for your chords and some programming to determine the probabilities, but probably a few ways to achieve this.

The Teletype will have more fine grain control and precision, the Harvestman will be more 'tweaky' and more fun to play :)

Hope this helps... :)


So I'm guessing this isn't possib;le:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/8633

IIt can be done in software but I thought it would be really cool to do it in a modular system.

So maybe I have to take a step back.

Are there any modules that can make a 'musical' decision?

I can expand on that - and will if requested :-) - but I thought I'd leave it open to see what, if any, suggestions there are.

I'm interested in ways a modular can 'react' to current pitches/CVs rather than running a S&H through an attenuator and quantiser.

Ian


Ah, the Doepfer :-)

AFAICT, they onlyy do 84 and 168 HP which itself seems slightly bonkers, but 168 is too big for my space and 84 leaves a gap which would not be filled and therefore a waste.

The Intellijel are nice but not at those prices :-(

Always a compromise.

So still considering the Mantis (I could get two - 12U!) for the price of some 6U systems) and still looking altho I suspect I've seen every case on the panet now! :-)


That's useful, thanks.

The K-2 and Eurorack is def not a road I'm going to go down. There are so many other amazing modules that work out the box so it really seems superfluous unless you really want to control its 'MS sound' from the rack and I can live without that :-)

Shame, though.

Even though the K-2 is a close. I'd have thought some clever software could have made the sockets Eurorack-compatible.

Ah well..


Hi,

I have had two private messages, but no corresponding notification in my email inbox!

Is everything working as it should be?

Kind regards :)


That 961 has nothing to do with V/Oct. Its purpose is converting different kinds of triggers. It can be useful with an MS-20/K-2, but for V/Oct to Hz/V conversion you'll need a different module. The G-Storm KVP does both. You already went for a Neutron, so no need for that, but I thought I'd mention it.


@Ligia - wonderful!! :-)

I came across a post listing the cost per HP of various cases which was very interesting.

You're absolutely right. I wouldn't consider housing such a module in a rack (until I get one which fills wall!), mainly because of the loss of HP. I hadn't worked out the REAL cost which is even more frightening :-)

I'm still trying to decide on a case...


I've just ordered a Neutron! Phew! One decision down, 999 to go :-)

Yes, 961 typo (now fixed). Apparently they are now available: https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_961_interface.htm

I really wanted an MS-20 back in the day, hence interest, but will likely give it a miss. Patching all this stuff together it going to be tough enough as it is :-)


Thread: PRESO MALE

OK...attenuator/inverter/mixers are backbone stuff. There is a Shades in your build, but this only provides three channels of CV/mod manipulation. Better choices would be Happy Nerding's 3X MIA, Antumbra's ATN8, Frap's 321, Low-Gain's CVP1, Tiptop's MISO, etc. The key here is functional density...you have to cram as much as possible into as tight as space as you can where utilities and other "no-tweak" modules are concerned. This then frees up more space for the modules that require more "playing surface are", like VCFs, etc.

Mod sources...the Quadrax is quite good as far as complex function generator/envelope generators go. But while Tides is a great LFO-type source, you're better here if you find a smaller form-factor 3rd party version of it. Again, you need to cram function into tight space here. Better still: Tesseract has a dual Tides that fits into only four more hp than Mutable's original. Keep an eye out for things like this. And don't count Maths out; there are REASONS why that module sees so much use! Tony came up with a true classic there.

Keep the Sloths, also. If you're doing anything ambient, generative, etc...self-regulating systems, basically...having low-speed randomness is a must. However, it could be augmented with comparators, logic, and so on...things that can pick off specific voltage states, combine these with clock pulses, and develop entirely new behaviors as the system runs. I strongly suggest looking into both categories I've mentioned here, as they open up new control possibilities for your modulation sources to work with.

Now, VCAs...the red-headed stepchilds of Eurorack, seems like...there are technically two: linear and DC-coupled, and exponential and AC-coupled. The latter is purely for audio, because these manipulate signals in ways that our hearing recognizes as "changes in apparent loudness", plus they BLOCK DC...which is really effin' critical if you have an amp that's DC-coupled, because if you send enough DC to that amp by accident (like passing a DC offset to your output...oops!), you won't have speakers if you keep it on long enough at a high enough level! The ARP 2600 was infamous for this. But the linear VCAs are key to manipulating CV and especially modulation signals. Since they can pass DC, they can be used for audio (preferably if you can send them exponential envelopes) OR subaudio signals down to DC. This means that if you want...oh, say, a rising amount of vibrato on a single VCO after a hard-attack audio envelope opens...well, you can do that. Just trigger the EG for the audio VCA and another one for the linear modulation VCA, set the first with a hard attack and a medium tail, and the second with a slow attack and medium tail, and there you are! One key press does it all.

I've repeatedly said that YOU CANNOT HAVE ENOUGH VCAS. I ain't kidding! They have ridiculous amounts of uses, particularly if you're talking about VCAs such as in the MI Veils or Intellijel's Quad VCA, because those not only pass DC, you can tailor their response curves. And that opens up a whole other pile of interesting possibilities. But here again, cram these as tightly as you can! And make sure you also get mixer capabilities, because mixing/adding CV and mod signals...yup, more fun potential. MY big choice for a dedicated linear VCA bank, btw, is the Erogenous Tones VC8...8 VCAs in one, with two breakable/linkable mixer paths. But for variables, Intellijel seems to have that down. Also...when you get a chance, try using an audio signal as a CV for a linear VCA while feeding another audio signal through it. Like I said, ridiculous amounts of uses...

Now, downright missing stuff...first up, look into waveshapers. These allow you to do loads of timbral manipulation before you even get your oscillator signals to the VCF, and make for a cheap way to get a more complex sound. In a similar vein, suboctave dividers are a super easy and effective way to create doubling...particularly into sub-wrecking subbass frequencies. This one point was/is why the Roland SH-101 punches as hard as it does with just a single VCO. And another key thing: ring modulators. Hell, I have "raw" ringmods permanently patched into my routing bays here and feed 'em with sine generators so that I can "whang up" any signal I damn well please! They're a big key to getting strange, alien, metallic sounds, but you can also use them as tremolo circuits (with an LFO as "modulator") to vary amplitude...just like a VCA, kindasorta.

Now, stuff that's just downright wrong...for one example, let's start with that Roland/Malekko mixer there. Since this is a smaller build, you should consider using mixer level VCAs to control your final signal amplitudes...but the Roland 531 only has CV over panning. You could use those as level VCAs (kind of) but then you'd have to run the mixer in mono, which defeats the purpose of having a stereo performance mixer. Plus, if you're properly submixing within your patches, you probably won't need six input channels at your output stage in this small a build. But if you step up four more hp, then you find the Toppobrillo Stereomix2...which gives you CV over level, panning, AUX send, plus you get channel muting and an FX send/return path. And this at only $80 more than the Roland. True, you lose two channels and your 1/4" outputs, but what you gain here is immense. Plus, if you want a balanced output AND a second stereo AUX return, you can pair this with a Happy Nerding OUT...so you get transformer balancing, metering, your headphone amp, and...yep...that second parallel stereo input.

Which brings up a point: sometimes the solution to a single issue is NOT a single module. In fact, much of the strength to be found in modular synthesis in general is in module complementarity; sure, you could add a second VCO for timbral variation...but you could ALSO add a waveshaper along with it, and then you've got tons of that timbral variation with just 12 more hp (or less...) used. As you remove and replace the above, try and focus on what combinations of modules do. Then how do those combinations work together as subsystems? And so on...as this is the key difference between a pile of electronic crap in a box and a real INSTRUMENT that you can work and live with for potentially decades. This is why I'm saying "go back, strip out the junk, redo"...because no one wants to drop several grand on something that you'll have to keep dropping several grand on. Instead, proceed slowly, carefully, and after studying the hows and whys of this stuff, proceed precisely so that you can hit a result that needs nothing but which provides everything. And MG's no video game...you don't have to get this right inside a time limit or hit a specific score. You have the room and the tools here...but TAKE THE TIME, because that's the one thing you bring to this process. And there's no substitute for properly using that resource when you're dealing with building an instrument that should be on-hand for decades.


Thread: PRESO MALE

I'd suggest starting here:

  • Any two of your sound sources
  • One filter
  • One granular module
  • Shades
  • Quadrax
  • Quad VCA
  • Output module (your Roland pick is fine, but you could go with something more simple as well)
  • Pamela's New Workout (8 clocks or LFOs... so handy!)
  • The Strymon pedal interface module

That's 10 modules... that's a ton to learn out of the gates, but still very powerful. Then after a few months, you'll start to understand what you really need to add next (if anything at all). But Luigi's point is important: do your homework on how synthesis functions first. If you're brand-new to synths, I'd strongly suggest picking up one of the various semi-modular monosynths as a starting point (O-Coast, Mother 32, Neutron, Crave, etc. etc.). Great way to get your feet wet, and get used to patching... and they'll still be relevant once you go for an actual modular system.


Thread: PRESO MALE

Way too much "sexy" going on here. You're missing a large amount of the boring stuff that serves to make all of that expensive, snazzy crap do what it should. Yes, there's definitely a lack of modulation sources, but without more VCAs, attenuators, mixers, and other stuff that has sleepy panel graphics and a lack of blinkenlichts und twistenknobs, you've got a MUCH bigger issue building here than simply dropping a few more EGs in will fix.

Starting with the above, and prior to adding anything, remove as much as you possibly can (and be brutal!) while maintaining the sort of base functionality you're aiming for. My bet is that about half of what's there will go away in this process. Then, go back in and double only certain modules when that doubling will contribute to the sound of a single patch. Doubling VCOs for detuning, for example. Next, if the idea here is to have a second voice-path, add that back in...but again, be as simplistic as you can, just like the above.

At this point, there should be a lot more open space. Now...start chucking in the "boring" stuff. The result won't look as dazzly as the above...but it will work far better than where your above build is heading.

But before doing ANY of that...go and check some tutorials on how synthesis methods work. Seriously...because you have 4 oscillators (but not...exactly), you don't have to have 3 VCFs. You'll get a LOT more punch out of taking all four and mixing them, then feeding that through ONE filter. This is one example; there are others present here, and one of the worst ideas I can think of is plunging into a $10k swimming pool without reading the manual to find out how to put the water in first. And modular synthesis can easily become that...OR WORSE.
-- Lugia

thanks Lugia for your reply.
can I ask you if you could provide me with some specific module that you will add (I'm thinking about what you said, " VCAs, attenuators, mixers, and other stuff that has sleepy panel...") so I'll look them out and study more.

About modulation, what do u think about Tides (2018) and Quadrax?


I didn't notice the 1u VCA, somehow... I thought it was the left half of the midi unit. But yes, that would take care of that need.

If you're going to be sequencing by midi, then the swap you're describing could be great... but of course, those are two very different modules. If you need sequencing, you need sequencing, not Woggling.
-- Shakespeare

Yes, I sequence by MIDI and I also have an SQ1. What I was doing was sequencing with MIDI and then using the MD to send CV sequence to different parameters. But it honestly has not been a great fit for me. I find that just sending the sequences from Ableton gets the pattern and pitch that I want, plus I can do so many styles of sequences with it. So the rest of the rack is basically modulation. Thats why I started looking at woggle more. I feel like it could be a good fit for the BIA as well. On that note, this sloth module looks so cool too. I am definitely going to get one of these.


Thread: PRESO MALE

Way too much "sexy" going on here. You're missing a large amount of the boring stuff that serves to make all of that expensive, snazzy crap do what it should. Yes, there's definitely a lack of modulation sources, but without more VCAs, attenuators, mixers, and other stuff that has sleepy panel graphics and a lack of blinkenlichts und twistenknobs, you've got a MUCH bigger issue building here than simply dropping a few more EGs in will fix.

Starting with the above, and prior to adding anything, remove as much as you possibly can (and be brutal!) while maintaining the sort of base functionality you're aiming for. My bet is that about half of what's there will go away in this process. Then, go back in and double only certain modules when that doubling will contribute to the sound of a single patch. Doubling VCOs for detuning, for example. Next, if the idea here is to have a second voice-path, add that back in...but again, be as simplistic as you can, just like the above.

At this point, there should be a lot more open space. Now...start chucking in the "boring" stuff. The result won't look as dazzly as the above...but it will work far better than where your above build is heading.

But before doing ANY of that...go and check some tutorials on how synthesis methods work. Seriously...because you have 4 oscillators (but not...exactly), you don't have to have 3 VCFs. You'll get a LOT more punch out of taking all four and mixing them, then feeding that through ONE filter. This is one example; there are others present here, and one of the worst ideas I can think of is plunging into a $10k swimming pool without reading the manual to find out how to put the water in first. And modular synthesis can easily become that...OR WORSE.


One point about these presumably "Eurorack" synths: they already have cabs and power. So, if you remove them from those and put them in a larger Eurorack case, you then have to factor the cost of how much of that larger case is being taken up by the device into the actual price of the K2, Model D, etc. And this can get spendy; let's take an example from the Tiptop Mantis here...

The Mantis retails for $335 (using US pricing here, same principle applies in any currency) and has 208 hp of space. This means that each hp has a cost of approximately $1.61.

Now, the Behringer Neutron requires 80 hp if you opt to put it into a larger Eurorack case. 80 x $1.61 = about $128.85. The "base" cost of the unit is $289.99 (looking at Sweetwater right now), so the total for a Euroracked Neutron actually comes in at $418.84. Also, you lose 80 hp of cab space for modules that don't have power or housing by doing this, which means that if you want that 80 hp of space after all, you'll have to spring for another Mantis. Now we're looking at $753.84, and this is starting to get ridiculous.

So, recabbing an already-cabbed synth like a Neutron, Mother32, etc is actually a big fiscal mistake. Don't do it! If you go with this "patchable" route (not a bad idea, really), this is a surefire way of overrunning your costs.


Hehe really good fun - simple idea nicely done :))

Thanks for sharing!


I didn't notice the 1u VCA, somehow... I thought it was the left half of the midi unit. But yes, that would take care of that need.

If you're going to be sequencing by midi, then the swap you're describing could be great... but of course, those are two very different modules. If you need sequencing, you need sequencing, not Woggling.


Thread: PRESO MALE

Your top two rows have all the fun toys, but there's way too much redundancy. Few systems really need three granular sampling modules, for instance... especially at this size. Or so many filters. (Etc. etc.)

Your bottom row looks pretty solid... good sequencing, VCAs, function generation, and a mixer. I'd toss the MI Shades in that row as well, since it's a crucial utility module. If you took that row, and added any four modules from your first two rows (two sound sources and two effect/granular/filter modules), you'll have enough to keep you busy and learning for a very, very long time.

The only big recommendation I have for something to add is Pamela's New Workout... it's right up there with Sloths as the best value in Eurorack, and it will fill in some modulation gaps for you as well. Depending on your feelings about using HP on things like mults (instead of stackable cables, for instance), you may also want to add one or two of those (I love Links for this, since it gives you several utilities in a small package).

-- Shakespeare

thanks for you reply.
About the granular, I've decided to drop off (for now eheh) the Abhar, since with Morphagene and Clouds i'm well covered in that field.
I choose Falistri over Maths, to provide more movement in my rack and I've choose those three filters (quite particular in my point of view), 'cause with 4 osc. I thought that three filter, at least, will be a good idea.

I'll look out for the MI Links, thank you.
And you where suggesting to put another MI Shades. Do you have some alternatives to suggest me?

I was thinking also to add a Tides or Quadrax.

thanks again


Superb! Thank you very much!


Hi Mebitek,

Nice usage of percussions! Also quite amazing kind of guitar sound you got there, how did you made that one, is that done with the Loquelic Iteritas module?

I like your explaination above here how you made the voices and what modules you used, nice information :-)

I look forward in hearing more from you and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

I think that the guitar sound you speak about is the DPO final ouput voice. The Loquelic iteritas is creating the main voice (this kind of main melody) and when I switch the algorithm it creates some nice variation. thanks for your feedback

Electronic music/video producer and composer.
Dark Ambient Cinematic atmospheres from Sardinia.


Hey, DonghyukHeo, love your videos very much!
Could you make a video or at least describe here in more detail the process of how you split midi files into various osc?
Please, it would be very interesting!
Wishing you all the best and waiting for new tracks!
-- yalivec

Hi, yalivec.

I'll make a tutorial about it soon.


Hi Garfield Modular,

Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts on the rack! As far as space is concerned, I am actually using a large 19" studio rack I had laying around from a much older project. If I put more rails in, it will easily fit two additional 3U rows and and a 1U row, and if I end up going really big I have another 8U studio rack I could put rails in, but of course with the price to fill all that I could almost buy a house instead. Jokes aside I do have plenty of room to grow for the time being so I am not too worried about how much space each module takes up, although those points are still valid since I neglected to mention the extra room I have in the original post.

Because of the enormous price of a full system (especially one with polyphonic capabilities) I am trying to assemble this rack in phases and this is more of my acquire slowly over the next several months plan. Although I am familiar with standard hardwired synthesizers and the terms associated with them, I figure this will also give me the opportunity to experience and learn each module and patching more slowly.

You mentioned looking into filters, a mixer, and an audio in/out. Do you have any recommendations on specific modules I might want to look at? I was originally going to put a 1U row in with the Intelljel 1U I/O module but after learning about the two separate 1u formats I have decided to wait and learn more of whats available in each before I commit to one or the other.

Thanks again for the input and the welcoming into the community, I am very excited to see where modular takes me!


I'm finally finishing up my rack (for now), and I've decided to add a nice subtractive voice to round it out. I tossed around the idea of adding a Moog Grandmother or Matriarch, but decided to keep it in the rack. I'm going to go with two AJH Minimod VCOs for sure. I'm usually pretty decisive, but I really can't choose between the Minimod VCF and the Gemini 2412 filter. There are pros and cons to each, and they both sound incredible with different character. I'm not necessarily trying to build a fully faithful Minimoog sound, just a really great sounding subtractive voice.
I am a little stuck. Any tips or user experience with AJH out there?
Thanks in advance.
-- farkas

The question is weather you prefer State Variable Filters or Ladder filters. I'd go for the ladder filter but that's just my preference.


Thanks! I had no idea about that 1u. I will absolutely look at that. Sounds amazing.

What do you think about pulling the MD and getting something like Woggle instead?

I have the 1u dual vca up top for vcas so far. I mainly use them for gates. Probably me not knowing enough yet.


Probably should have mentioned that my current filter situation is a Ripples, the FSS Gristleizer filter, and an Optomix. Sorry for the oversight. :)


I'm finally finishing up my rack (for now), and I've decided to add a nice subtractive voice to round it out. I tossed around the idea of adding a Moog Grandmother or Matriarch, but decided to keep it in the rack. I'm going to go with two AJH Minimod VCOs for sure. I'm usually pretty decisive, but I really can't choose between the Minimod VCF and the Gemini 2412 filter. There are pros and cons to each, and they both sound incredible with different character. I'm not necessarily trying to build a fully faithful Minimoog sound, just a really great sounding subtractive voice.
I am a little stuck. Any tips or user experience with AJH out there?
Thanks in advance.