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Any thoughts on my proposed eurorack synth?

Hi Mowse and Lugia,

Mowse: Wow, thank you very much sharing your lessons learnt on your Pinging filters! It's nice as well as very interesting!

Lugia: Thank you very much in sharing your experiences and view on the mastering stuff!

Kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks Farkas,
I'm thinking the attached is looking pretty complete now. Let me know what you think.

Thank you!

About that mastering issue...that's not what the problem sounds like. Instead, your description sounds a lot more like the result of a mediocre monitoring chain. And in electronic music, that's not good, given the potential range and sonic complexity synths can put out.

My suggestion would be, if you're planning to stay in this for the long haul, to invest in something serious for monitoring purposes. In my studio, I actually use three different monitor setups for different situations, all routed and controlled by a Presonus Central Station +. The "mains" are a vintage pair of Altec 3841s driven by a Crown D150A, and this is what gets used during tracking. Then for "check", I use a pair of TADs + an Alesis RA100 -- this is for seeing how mixes will sound on a "typical case" end-user system.

But in between is the key setup, which is what I use for both mixing and mastering: a pair of KRK 9000Bs (San Francisco-era...NOT the recent Gibson versions!) driven by a Crest FA601 (actual Brit unit...NOT a Peavey build!). And this wasn't cheap...but it's proven essential, since the 9000Bs are brutally honest, and that "real" Crest amp has the over-the-top slewing rates that allow for precise high frequency reproduction. This is the "critical" chain, where the real voodoo takes place, and without it, things would not work as smoothly as they do. Having utterly flat response and precise waveform replication is KEY to eliminating issues like you're mentioning, as well as avoiding nasty issues like "ear fatigue" from several hours of trying to work on inadequate monitors.

This might not sound like something that requires that level of attention, but believe me, it makes a huge difference...both in your own workflow AND in the final results.

Thanks for the feedback Garfield, glad you liked the video :)
Cheers, Gabor

Just had a chance to listen to and read through this post. Some amazing stuff you are doing which is a great inspiration for someone like myself who is just taking those first shakey steps into modular synthesis, so thank you for this!

Random question but is this the Wishbone Brewery where Oli, who used to work at Cap and Collar, works?
-- TMR1984

Yep :) Though he is currently Furloughed and its just me doing all the work we have at the moment.

Thank you for sharing. It's easier to understand the way you work with the instrument you build.
I have listened to your track several times with the patch in mind. Very interesting and beautiful piece!

A few questions:
- Are you fully satisfied with the 2hp TM, and why not have chosen the Music Thing Modular? (I personally use Marbles...)
- 2hp Euclid, same question :) Completely satisfied? Did you hesitate with another module like Euclidean Circles?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
With kind regards.
-- Sweelinck

Thanks :)

I'm happy with the 2hp TM, I didn't choose the Music Thing because I am trying to keep a compact setup (This has its pros and cons). I quite fancy a Marbles sometime.
2hp Euclid, same reasoning and the price is a lot cheaper than Euclidean Circles. I've got a DNI pro DOT on order and that has 3 channels of Euclidean sequences.

Is there a Manual? Is the Sound on the Youtube Demo Video only from the Grone with external effects?

Is it possible to get one with regular Knobs without these Crimson Omen Skulls?

You will need a LOT of dedicated modulation sources to get the most out of a Basimilus Iteritas Alter. Something like the Voltage Block. Check out Baseck's videos to get an idea of what's possible, but only with the right setup. The Disting will give you access to a vast array of possibilities, but it's not as fun to use.
I finally broke down and bought a Disting Mk4. I hate menu diving, but it's an insanely valuable module. I also have the BIA, and I would have to recommend the Disting first, for what it's worth.
Have fun and good luck!

So I've been revising this rack for over the last month and this is the update. Rather small update, but wanted some advice.

I took out the Rubicon 2s and added the ZPOs as I do like the sound and features slightly better. Switching also allowed more space to fit the Basimilus Iteritas Alter.

The main issue is I'm kinda struggling between the Basimilus Iteritas Alter and the Disting EX. I like that the Disting can do many functions and when connected to its MIDI module, it has way more functionality than the MINI MIDI. on the other hand, if I leave the Disting EX out I like that everything besides the Tetra doesn't have a bunch of possible functions for each input/output, WYSIWYG-ish.

I would like to hear any recommendations.

Thanks again!

MicroSequence runs the clock
Clock divided
2hp Euclid then opens and closes the envelope controlling the Freq and Res on a VCF
2hp Turing machine and Tune control all the Pitches
STO is split off to: 2hp Verb / Erica Pico DSP / Monsoon Clouds
There is also a little 2hp Bell in there which goes through the Stereo Tape Delay on the Disting MK4
Mostly mixed with the Befaco STMIX

Current Rack below (Ignore the DNI Pro DOT as its somewhere between Ukraine and UK on its way in the post)

-- wishbonebrewery

Just had a chance to listen to and read through this post. Some amazing stuff you are doing which is a great inspiration for someone like myself who is just taking those first shakey steps into modular synthesis, so thank you for this!

Random question but is this the Wishbone Brewery where Oli, who used to work at Cap and Collar, works?

Thank you for sharing. It's easier to understand the way you work with the instrument you build.
I have listened to your track several times with the patch in mind. Very interesting and beautiful piece!

A few questions:
- Are you fully satisfied with the 2hp TM, and why not have chosen the Music Thing Modular? (I personally use Marbles...)
- 2hp Euclid, same question :) Completely satisfied? Did you hesitate with another module like Euclidean Circles?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
With kind regards.

Two more thoughts after several listens.

1. Delete the modulation path to Clouds 'Blend.' It drowns us in reverb. Less is more.
2. The sharpest pings should be reigned in a bit. Expand patch to include attenuator. Solve quickly with Maths.

Hello,

Just sharing some things I learned this evening. Every week, I try to set aside an evening to experiment with a particular concept or to learn more about something that evades me. Today, it was pinging filters.

For this one, I'm creating rhythmic and musical textures and accents by pinging Make Noise QPAS and Mutable Instruments Ripples with Pamela's NW and Quadrax. I started with a lush ambient landscape and introduce twinkling arps supplied by STO and a Moog Mother 32. Rossum Electro-Music Trident and Plaits provide low and mid drones with a bit of 'zing' resonance from Trident Reverb is managed with Clouds and Mimeophon. To add/remove pings, I used mute switches from Muta Jovis. I have the option to play STO via Keystep keyboard and will do more of that as this track evolves. If I can do this right using resonance, some of the pings are arranged musically and sound like to-scale notes delivered by a sequencer. Clouds helps to round out sharp edges.

Lessons learned:

Lesson 1. Physical mute switches might send a "pop" downstream when toggled. Mimeophon will gobble them up and send a cascade of terrible repeats right to your face because, let's face it, you probably deserved it.

Lesson 2. Master resonance control between Trident and QPAS. Find balance between Trident 'zing' and QPAS 'Q' so that resonance doesn't overwhelm the high end.

Lesson 3. I'm reaching the limits of my mastering skills. Track where the high end is busy are difficult when it comes to removing ambient hiss or just-too-sharp elements. Low end needs more oomph and a cleaner drop off. I've just got to work towards mastering kung fu... mastering mastering kung fu.

Lesson 4. Rossum Electro-Music Trident is beautiful.That's the first word that comes to mind. I was afraid that it would be buzzy or metallic beyond my liking. It can be if told to be so. Otherwise, it's not. It's just so, so good. I'm only scratching the surface of this thing and will dedicate more time to finding out what it can do. I think that's precisely the feeling you want when you introduce any new module, but especially with an oscillator.

Anyhow, hope you enjoy the snippet of noise. I've decided to post each one of these evenings to YouTube so that maybe others can might glean useful bits from my experiments. Any feedback welcomed.

-mowse

Hi Gabor,

Ha, ha, amazing, 2nd day, 2nd video, nice to see how you are playing around with the Disting Ex! Thank you very much for your provided information on your previous video post in this same "You" subdirectory of this forum.

Somewhere halfway your video you mention by text that it might be a little too much. Oh come on! When can be modular ever be too much, no matter how much we tweak it, how much we modulate it, it's never really too much ;-) Of course I got your point, I am just kidding.

Thanks a lot for this joyful demo and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Kel,

No problem. Sorry, I am terrible bad with abbreviations. DM?

With BSP, do you mean BeatStep Pro with that? But I meant KeyStep Pro :-) It's a new one from Arturia to become available any moment... like the Ground Control ;-)

Well yes, you are right about being patience but this item has already been announced at the Superbooth 2019 if I am not mistaken and it's still not there, so this indeed makes me a nerve-wracked "patient" rather than being "patience" ;-)
See your reply/text above here: patient/patience ;-)

I don't know it any more, I just can't find a suitable sequencer, I thought the Ground Control might be the solution. The big con of the KeyStep Pro is that's big (I don't have actually space for it) but it's not big enough to have normal keys and yeah, I wish there was a Eurorack module version of it, that would be cool!

Okay I try to be a bit more patience but I had enough of it actually (all that waiting I mean)...

Cheers, Garfield, the lazy patient that isn't very patience ;-)

The other "screw-with-CVs" thing that's both highly useful AND cost-effective ($99!) that I'd recommend would be Tiptop's MISO. For modifying/manipulating CVs and modulation signals (and audio, too), the thing's pretty much a super-capable blank slate, with loads of different potential for different users. For small builds, I'd go as far as saying that it's an essential utility component.

Ahoy!!

I didn't get a notification about this, sorry for delay in replying (and sorry to anyone else I am missing, feel free to DM if you would like me to look at something).

I guess production is disrupted with this virus thing, some things are simply not available, so we just have to be patient?

BSP looks good, but no experience... and to be honest, not really my kinda thing :)

I really like the Westlicht Per|former - that's very cool and very comprehensive for modular sequencing!

I guess I love the new Disting Ex :)

You could make the most of modulation sources with a DPW Design AV-1, your two inputs can be attenuverted, there is also a SUM output and a A>B output so lots of options for screwing around with your CV signals to create more. You can even throw a couple of gate sources at it and get a new sequence based on the two input.
That HN 3xMIA does look tempting though ;-)
-- wishbonebrewery

that one does look good,have to check it out,have put it on the list

@mowse Thanks for sharing your experiences. Your appreciation of the journey really comes through. And the notion of being open to the magic of surprises—and tearing down preconceptions—resonates with me.

One of the things I think you're touching on is that beginner's mind can be a rewarding mindset with which to approach eurorack. Being open to possibility, just as much as we are shaping our instruments with each choice made (modules, signal flow, etc.), can lead somewhere unexpected, and rewarding.

Another thing you've demonstrated here is that committing pays off. Committing to a process that involves learning the ins/outs of modules, patience, and reflection. And continuous learning.

If you're up for one more question, what lies ahead as you continue on your journey? Are there any particular sounds, patches, performative aspects, or anything else on the horizon?

Thanks again for all.

You could make the most of modulation sources with a DPW Design AV-1, your two inputs can be attenuverted, there is also a SUM output and a A>B output so lots of options for screwing around with your CV signals to create more. You can even throw a couple of gate sources at it and get a new sequence based on the two input.
That HN 3xMIA does look tempting though ;-)

EDITED May 28th 2020, 18:10

have just ordered a MI Kinks.will check the other recommendations

@GarfieldModular Thanks for the kind words. I hope to be around more. There's so much more to learn and maybe some things I can share to help others.

@aarontw I have not tried Knurlies, but I'm definitely going to give them a shot, especially on that top row. In terms of vision and direction, there have been many changes. The more I expose myself to different personalities and styles, the more I am drawn to things that didn't resonate with me at first. What I first found appealing is changing. For example, Telharmonic was way off my map as a VCO versus my Moog oscillators. Same with Wogglebug. How do you get controlled results from this thing?! Well, you don't. The magic is in the element of surprise and chaos. Coming from U.S. East coast, not my typical style. A lot of preconceptions were torn down, mostly because I didn't actually know what I was talking about. So, I suppose that my current vision is to expose myself to as much information and learning as possible and see where it leads me.

@Ronin1973 I haven't sold any of my modules and I don't feel buyer's remorse for any given purchase. This is a learning process for me and I have decided to make the commitment in full. I'm sure that I'll sell things eventually, but I want to do so when I'm sure that a piece of gear has been fully explored and is wrong for me.

Looking forward to learning and sharing more, especially some noises and music. Thanks, all, for the kind words. Much appreciated.

Yeah, those little 6 hp wonders from Happy Nerding are pretty amazing...and function-dense, too. For mixing, attenuverting, all of that, they're an awesome solution.

I just purchased @txl879 's E560 Deflector Sheild and it's grand. Working great; cosmetically in the shape he described, so no surprise there. You can buy from him with confidence.

I find myself using the Happy Nerding 3xMIA in every patch. I also use Links and Pique (After Later Audio’s Peaks clone) a lot.

this may sound stupid, but i really love my AMSynths 8016.

Hey Garfield,

I pre-ordered the Disting EX from Signal Sounds in Glasgow a couple of weeks ago (Jason said the new stock had been sold before the units arrived in his store) so I guess I was lucky (and impatient ;)).
As the tagline goes, the EX is (also) like "two souped up" mk4's because some mk4's algos have been reworked and now have much better audio quality and processing. To me though it's the single modes that make the EX a wonderful module. I thought the Matrix Mixer is something I'd never want to use but the 6 inputs/4 mix outputs and 60 (!) tweakable parameters turn the EX into a complex CV/audio mixer. Then there's the SD Multisampler which I was tweaking last night (plan to post a video demoing that algo as well) and I find it so awesome (up to 8 voice polyphony, polyrhythms, etc. - and it sounds great!), the Augustus Loop stereo tape delay is also very complex. And there's a lot more to discover here. The tiny OLED is really useful and with the EX you can't escape menu diving but it's quite convenient and with 256 presets on board you're pretty much covered.
Like I said I still have two mk4's and plan to keep at least one for good. It's simply too good a 4 hp module to let go of. If one can afford it, having an Ex AND one or more mk4's is fully justified, imo. Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Gabor

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Thanks a lot for sharing the details with us, very interesting! :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Aphew Goodman,

Oh come-on! Here (in Germany) we have to wait till mid July before we can get this thing (Disting Ex) and you got it already! ;-)

You not only got it already, within the same day you create somehow (no idea how you do this so fast and nicely) already a video about it with some decent sounding music out of it! :-D

Well thanks for sharing this and putting this nice demo here, very well done!

Just a question, without wanting to sound negative, is the Disting Ex a kind of "double" Disting Mk4 with a nicer screen (OLED) or is there "a bit" more behind it? I guess the latter? Sounds like the Mannequins - Just Friends is an interesting module too!

Thanks a lot, continue enjoying the Disting Ex and kind regards, Garfield.

This is the best post I've seen on this forum. I feel like I've learned so much here too, and it's cool to see someone achieve their dream. Thanks for sharing.

Could you be more specific?

Did you buy anything during this time and then resell it later? Is there anything that you bought that you found yourself not using or regretting the purchase (regret might be too strong of a term... but you get the idea).

MicroSequence runs the clock
Clock divided
2hp Euclid then opens and closes the envelope controlling the Freq and Res on a VCF
2hp Turing machine and Tune control all the Pitches
STO is split off to: 2hp Verb / Erica Pico DSP / Monsoon Clouds
There is also a little 2hp Bell in there which goes through the Stereo Tape Delay on the Disting MK4
Mostly mixed with the Befaco STMIX

Current Rack below (Ignore the DNI Pro DOT as its somewhere between Ukraine and UK on its way in the post)

Got the Disting Ex yesterday and I'm kinda blown away already. I thought the Matrix Mixer algo will be the last one I'd touch but after patching all the six Just Friends outputs into the Ex things have changed for good. Initially I planned to buy an Ex and sell both the Disting mk4's I have but I decided to keep the whole family together. Here's a track + video I made last night.

Cheers to you all.

Nice track again, especially the line and inflexions of the main voice (STO?). Which modules did you use to conduct this voice? Micro Sequence only? BTW, interesting to see your wish list (and right choice about Marbles), but would be more helpful to see the details of you current 3 rows.

So pity that I missed the live version!

Thanks for listening! This was fun so there will be more sets and second chances.

I like that deep bass sound, how did you do that?

All the deep bass in this set comes from SSF Entity Bass Drum. Great module!

Towards the end, you were doing something there, I saw you doing it ;-) But that sounded like a lot of fun and totally reminded me of the "Sound of Noise" (on purpose?) that I assume you know about, funny mini-movie and funny music too!

Yep, I know it! Swedish, like myself. We didn’t have it in mind though. We’re not that clever.

EDITED May 27th 2020, 07:28

Thanks again :)

The Sliders module is the Pittsburgh Modular MicroSequence, its mainly just used as my clock source, it has a cycle that has a probability of a 'rest' so I can start off with a slightly wonky clock. I've not really been using it as the Pitch/gate sequencer it is intended to be though i can see me using it differently as my system slowly lets me experiment with more styles. I do use the Pitch CV to modulate other modules.

Hi Kel,

I just found an update on my local dealer's website about the Endorphin.es Groud Control module, they delayed the availability from end of this month to early October :-( This is getting quite ridiculous long waiting...

Looks like I have no choice and look for something else, any thoughts about the Arturia Keystep Pro? Worth it?

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yet another nice track from you :-) You made my day. Listening now for the third time at your track and yet subtle but nice to listen at and nice relaxing too!

Nice picture too! In the middle row of your rack, the 2nd module from the left with those 2 times 4 sliders with a few buttons I guess on the right, what kind of module is that? A dual EG or something like that? Nice to use module?

So this forgotten and found-back jewel... how many more of this kind of nice stuff you have laying around and forgot to post it? ;-)

I want: More! More! More! :-D

Kind regards, Garfield.

And thanks too guys :)

Don't think I posted this one

Fantastic post, Mowse! The results sound & look great.

I have been very interested in learning how folks are approaching the organization of their instrument. The color schema you've used to organize the rack, by functional region, is super helpful as a reference point. In particular, designating the purple playground area seems wise. (Have you tried Knurlies? I love them for encouraging rearranging)

Thinking back to your earlier days on this path, has there been any shift in musical vision, goals w/ the case as an instrument, or other philosophical discoveries?

Thanks for sharing, please continue to do so!

EDITED May 27th 2020, 21:41

Hmm...yeah, the Mutamix won't work here in the way you think. Plus, a system like this is VERY underserved by only a single VCA. You don't need the buffered mults, either, since you don't have enough CV destinations to cause voltage sag issues that would affect tuning and scaling. Also, farkas is VERY correct here about the layout/signal flow issues here; this will turn out to be a very unintuitive instrument to work with.

This is another example of "sexy module syndrome", really. You have nice things...but their purpose here isn't clear, nor do you have all of the "boring" utilities, such as attenuverters, mixers, etc that make this sort of thing function properly. You could probably rip half of this out and still get the basic, overall result you're aiming for, in the end. As for "beginner modular"...go look at perhaps the best example of that, the ARP 2600. These have been used for literally DECADES as teaching instruments, and probably the new ones still would be had Korg not lost its damn mind with their "limited reissue" BS. Now, I'm not saying to replicate the 2600...but pay attention to what it has, how it's laid out, and how you might update that to arrive at a good beginner result for yourself.

Nice, yeah, this is how I though you did it, very cool - thanks for sharing :))

It's not easy to get pitch perfect waveforms all together in a file like that, takes a lot of preparation and careful thought usually, which is why the WaveEdit app is so brilliant!

I open the longest file in Soundforge.
Then I've selected about 68 very small parts (from a zero crossing to another) from this file and copy past them one after the other in a new file.

It's not exactly what I wanted to do, because the lenght of the different parts are not the same.
But it works fine.

It can be done with whatever you want .wav file.

That's very nice of you - thank you!!

They sound good :)

It would be great to know what the actual process was if you don't mind sharing?

I'm not that familiar with the Mutamix, but I don't think it operates as a traditional VCA. It looks like there is only CV control over channel muting, not over channel levels. You almost certainly would want something that serves as a combo VCA and mixer like the Intellijel Quad VCA, Veils, or the Zlob Vnicursal. You have also included two delay modules which seems a little redundant, but I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish sound wise, so that's up to you.
A few more things to consider: Do you really need Data in your setup? It eats up a LOT of hp for what it does. I know Data looks cool, but is it going to be indispensable for you? I would recommend against it in a small first rack.
I know a lot of people love the Frap Tools stuff, but I find their interfaces confusing and unintuitive. As a beginner, might you be better served and more productive with something a little more straightforward like Batumi and Zadar for your modulation sources? Maths may be a better option here too.
Finally, there doesn't appear to me to be much rhyme or reason to the layout or signal flow in your rack. I would start by grouping oscillators/sound sources together, sequencing/clocks, modulation sources, effects, VCAs and I/O, etc. As it is, your rack looks really jumbled. Think in terms of an old school hardware synth's signal flow.
You didn't mention what type of music/sound you are interested in making, so it's hard to tell if the modules you have chosen will help you get there. Plaits is a decent choice for someone new to modular because you get a taste of many different sounds, and I know a lot of folks love the sort of aggressive digital sound of the Hertz Donut. Let us know what you are hoping to accomplish, and we can probably make some more specific recommendations.
Have fun and good luck!

Hi,

I've made some electromagnetic fields recordings and I've created a wavetable from those recordings.
Here you can download a file with the raw recordings and 2 wavetables ( with and without effects ).
https://1fichier.com/?36297341vhlksrpwltzt

Let me know what you think of this.
Electromagnetic fields from laptop, smartphone, internet box, electric meter, fridge, induction hob.

Feel free to use the sounds to make sample or wavetable or whatever you want.
I you want.

Cheers