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Nice one as usual @mowse. I'm curious how the SoundStage helped out here, is it mostly to do with the relation of the different elements dynamically?

this is how I use them too - in between things

I see a lot of newb cases with them jammed in next to each other though

often I find the sam issue with 4 hp modules too - need space around them Disting is a good exaample of this
-- JimHowell1970

Disting also requires menu diving, which I'm really not a fan of. That said, they really pack a lot of functionality, so, as with nearly everything in life, it's about the trade-offs/pros/cons. I'm moving more and more into non-Buchla banana jack land, so that level of control is becoming less of a concern for me.

kinks is always a good addition for modulation imo

other than that I would want a decent mixer - preferably something that has both mono (with panning) and stereo inputs - so maybe split between 2 mixers - probably I'd go happy nerding panmixjr and stereo mixer

I'd also probably look at adding another filter or 2 - at least one of which I would want to be able to produce sine waves and accept v/oct and track a couple of octaves accurately

I've been wondering about this module, will give it a listen.

Good convo here! I feel like we need a pinned thread, "So you're gonna build your first rack? Take a look at these suggestions." Would help a lot of folks start off on the right foot.

you really can never have too many vcas - watch the mylarmelodies video on youtube called "why you can never have too many vcas"
6u/104 is still a small modular!!! it won't fit in your handbag - but it is portable etc etc
always allow space to expand - you might not think you will want to expand from this now but you probably will - if your case is full that means buying another case - a bigger case to start with will work out cheaper overall
why filters: so you can stick a filter between morphagene and monsoon for example
why kinks: modify modulation - stop it being boring - the current rack is basically one patch - kinks will add a lot to it
why fx aid: so you have choices about how to route stuff - add layers etc etc
as for a modulation source - pams is great (i believe) but not so hands on - personally I like maths - its sort of a microcosm of modular - see the "maths illustrated manual" online to see why

personally I'm not that big a fan of ochd - no control really

modulation is quite personal though - it's a journey not an end - some things you have to work out yourself

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 11:51

how are you expecting to do final mixing/monitoring - always through the es9 or with an external mixer?

Good question...
I added a Erica Synth Links so that I can use an external mixer, too.

I would try without this first - you may or may not need it or passive attenuators to do this

I would drop the tritone and compressor

Why?
I think I will need the sidechain of the compressor and I am also looking for a way to saturate signals.

VCAs - you could just use vcas to do both of these roles - but you may want to swap to different vcas then - for example one that actually amplifies rather than attenuates - veils and intellijel quad definitely do this - side chaining can be done very easily with vcas - mix an envelope with an inverted copy of the signal you want to use to sidechain and send that to the vca

kick hat snare are next to each other - so very cramped - each of those modules is 1.16cm wide - you may want to spread them out a bit in reality

Yeah I almost thought so :)

I would swap the doepfer matrix mixer for something a bit smaller - AISynthesis does a 10hp one!!

Thanks for the hint!

spread the vcas about

What do you mean ? You mean I should also spread them like the drum modules?

vcas are useful throughout the system for modulation as well audio - so maybe 1 top left, 1 bottom right for example

unless you are smitten with the Milky Way I would swap in an fx aid xl - more options for effects - similar hardware

Thanks again! Did not stumble upon this module yet.

Here is the updated rack.
As stated in the first post, the system is a first idea for the future and I wanted to get a feeling for a balanced system.
So does this look good now?

-- le_tmp

it's looking better - not sure of the purpose of the 2hp TM - you probably need to add a quantizer to get it to do what you want - provide another v/oct channel - if this is the case you may be better off with marbles instead of bloom

I would stop stressing about it and just start with a minimum viable synth as outlined above - the plan will always change no matter what once you start patching

Wooaa hey guys and girls! Exciting; long time lurker first time poster!

I've been working on a system for jamming and live performance focused mainly around taking care of bass/lead/atmos/fx sounds (Analog Rytm taking care of beats) and wanted to plumb the depths of MG.net knowledge to see where I could take this! I have most of the modules in the top two rows already (minus matrix mixer and maths and plus rene) sat in a nice mantis case but I feel I need to add elements to mix properly (currently using veils as a 'mixer' and built a patch in Torcido editor to act as mixer/output/oscillator) and add the matrix mixer to get some really nice, smooth, performable modulation happening!

I'm very much into slowly developing textures and evolving patches but with a dancable tempo that I often mix with field recodings etc. Any ideas/suggestions would be really greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

*For some reason in posting this the grid has decided to give me an erica black out against my wishes haha

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 09:54

Hello! Thanks a lot for your feedback. After more searching it looks like Ears is not needed for Monsoon and Morphagene indeed.

I would really like to keep it small and i've no real desire to expand it, but probably 84hp or 104hp like you suggest is more realistic for the long term budget yes! So instead of Maths, maybe PAM which would provide the modulation in 8hp (envelopes+lfos+randomness) and ochd?

Duly noted for the Triple Sloth instead of the Woggle Bug and for the Veils, maybe a dual VCA based on the Mutable Instruments Veils like the one made by After Later Audio could be enough for most of the patches?

As a start, I don't really see the point of adding filters+kinks+fx aid as most of the work will already be done on the Digitone (effects+filters) and the audio processing is done on the Morphagene and Monsoon? Could you please explain?

So here is a second version of the setup : PAM+Ochd+Morphagene+Monsoon+DVCA+MakeNoise XOH and later on, for more slow randomness, the Triple Sloth as suggested?

Thanks!

how are you expecting to do final mixing/monitoring - always through the es9 or with an external mixer?

Good question...
I added a Erica Synth Links so that I can use an external mixer, too.

I would drop the tritone and compressor

Why?
I think I will need the sidechain of the compressor and I am also looking for a way to saturate signals.

kick hat snare are next to each other - so very cramped - each of those modules is 1.16cm wide - you may want to spread them out a bit in reality

Yeah I almost thought so :)

I would swap the doepfer matrix mixer for something a bit smaller - AISynthesis does a 10hp one!!

Thanks for the hint!

spread the vcas about

What do you mean ? You mean I should also spread them like the drum modules?

unless you are smitten with the Milky Way I would swap in an fx aid xl - more options for effects - similar hardware

Thanks again! Did not stumble upon this module yet.

Here is the updated rack.
As stated in the first post, the system is a first idea for the future and I wanted to get a feeling for a balanced system.
So does this look good now?

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 10:31

this is how I use them too - in between things

I see a lot of newb cases with them jammed in next to each other though

often I find the sam issue with 4 hp modules too - need space around them Disting is a good exaample of this

if you are currently using vcas as attenuators I see nothing wrong with adding a trim module to free up vcas - in fact probably what I would do - unless there is anything else you feel is missing - or just leave it for now - you don't have to have every case full to the brim!!

it's a little better

throws up questions though:

how are you expecting to do final mixing/monitoring - always through the es9 or with an external mixer?

I would drop the tritone and compressor

kick hat snare are next to each other - so very cramped - each of those modules is 1.16cm wide - you may want to spread them out a bit in reality

I would swap the doepfer matrix mixer for something a bit smaller - AISynthesis does a 10hp one!!

spread the vcas about

unless you are smitten with the Milky Way I would swap in an fx aid xl - more options for effects - similar hardware

Thanks for your quick and detailled reply! That helped me a lot to orientate myself :)

I tried to address your feedback and started a second rack version:

Just a sidenote: I already have an Arturia Keystep Pro that I plan to use as an alternative to the ES-9 if there is no laptop available.

For me it looks way more ballanced now, but I am still not sure, if there is something essential missing?
So it would be really nice, if you could again have a look at it. Thanks in advance!

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 08:39

@GarfieldModular Thank you very much! Wishing you all the best too. Have a nice weekend, hope my music will hepl :)

Also, I've recorded a new video, but I think it's perfect to show it on Helloween, because of its sound, ahahah :) A bit of dark ambient, influenced by Bernard Parmegiani... So, well, I need to record another one for the start of my favourite season of the year.

Cheers,
Igor

Great stuff! A very nice exploration.

Exploring the WORNG SoundStage with a little 2xMother-32 improvisation. Other VCO's are Trident and Telharmonic.

Nice recommendations @Lugia, I'll check em out. Would those take euro voltages, or would I need to send and receive at line out level? 🤔

Funny that you mention the Varigate 4+ as I just got one to play with my Quad EG. Crazy sequencer and lots of cool features. Not the most precise sequencer but lots of fun. Here is a demo of some things I threw together recently:

Y'know, I'm not jazzed on the Quadrax, either. I thought that Intellijel had the formula right with the Quadra, which you could use on its own just as four two-stage EGs, or you could couple the Expander with it. That arrangement gave you CV over either rise OR fall, not a single CV input for both, plus you had a few other tricks there that don't seem to have made it to the Quadrax. Yeah, it's a simpler module, but not everyone wants (or needs!) simpler.

Gonna fix this compressor thing right now, too. Don't put it IN the cab. Instead, what you want is THIS: https://fmraudio.com/products.html That's right...not one, not two, but THREE excellent pro-grade choices in a tiny, inobtrusive 1/3-rackspace box. While the RNC might be the one that jumps out at you, the REAL solution is the RNLA, which works less like a VCA compressor and more like an opto limiter, like the LA-2A and, more recently, the ART ProVLA (which I should note that I have TWO of, because they kick ass!). It 'smooths' out the peaks, but allows you to go up to your threshold while banging away furiously, then it adds a nice bit of color once you cross it. This should work MUCH better than most affordable Eurorack compressor modules while still not being a huge thing that takes up space.

Nice, I'll take a "not bad at all" from you @Lugia 👍👍👍 I had actually been wanting to get your opinion on this rack. What do you think of it? I'm not sold on the Quadrax yet, might swap it with a DUSG, but I need a compressor too... so many problems to solve!

Very much not AIIICEED. However, it's not bad at all for minimal techno...sort of in the Surgeon/Oliver Ho vein...

Some more patches using different settings for Malekko Varigate 4+ and Malekko Quad Envelope:

@JimHowell1970

Thanks, well the main issue is ease of use and good workflow and mitigate issue around hum from the Doepfer power supply location.

Thinking of having VCOs and filters on top row and bottom left and sequencer/controller/mixer of bottom right part. Ideally a 3-4 row case that folds out so bottom layer with controllers and sequencers at fingertips. Saving up for case #3 the massive 400-600HP travel case! But no rush.

On a positive note, today I made solid progress after work in learning how to use my Malekko Varigate 4+ sequencer and Malekko Quad Envelope modules. It is quite tricky sequencer but fun once you get hang of it. Changing scales and patterns quickly and save presets is pretty slick for a small module. Same with the Malekko Quad Envelope- can use various EG patterns including forward, reverse and random. It is definitely an EG on steroids! That said, long term I need a powerhouse sequencer that can do xox tracker style sequencing and ratcheting like the Vector, Nerdseq, and Winter Eloquencer sequencers. I am used to the Elektron sequencer workflow and find most modular sequencers a pain to deal with for complex song chaining and patterns. They are ok for quick and dirty stuff but not composing entire modular tracks.

Definitely, if it's going to be your only system, DON'T get a Palette. Get a larger case (the Mantis is great... or Eowave has a new 7u case that is reasonable) and give yourself room to grow.

I love my Palette for when I want to focus on a handful of modules... but as a full system, it would get dull fairly quickly, no matter what modules you put in it. It's a nifty case, but it plays a very particular role.

This is lovely @Quantum_Eraser I can't seem to get anything melodic out of my Ensemble Oscillator and instead end up making creepy drones with it (edited to add that this is fine too lol), but you've inspired me to give it another shot.

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 00:22

https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/track/outtake-acid

Don't think I succeeded exactly, and as opposed to my drone stuff where I'm not so picky, the bar is quite high here! Acid needs to be special, and maybe this isn't exactly acid anyway. Practice makes perfect though!

Made with:

Thank you @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia for clarifying mults and attenuators in setups. I will keep the buffered mult and use that with other modules for my second rack as well as the passive mult. I do have attenuators in my Intellijel Quad VCA and can get one for the second new rack. Since I have 2hp free in my first rack, would you recommend the 2hp trim attenuator or another module and if so, what one?

Hi Igor,

Oh man, oh man! You are giving us here a very good treat and it's a nice idea of the 10 years compilation album. I love the "Human Or Not" track, very nicely done!

If you don't mind, I continue listening at your album, this is just what I needed to have a good start into the weekend. Thanks a lot for sharing this, and while I am going to have a fantastic weekend listening at your album, I wish you are going to have a nice weekend like me too :-D

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Quantum Eraser,

Yes, that's a nice jam session :-) It's a good demo of the Ensemble Oscillator, you make me start to think about this module! :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

no probs

there's a lot to be said for literally just getting - a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to listen and a way to play and slowly organically growing from there

for a way to listen get a quad cascading vca - it'll be mono, but it'll do the job perfectly well - veils or intellijel work best imo - and you will always benefit from it

if you need to use headphones then get a tile

yes all the tiles are either intellijel or shakmat (who do both - check when ordering i guess)

Hi Mikeyip,

That's indeed some nice experimental music but for me indeed quite ambient like too. Everything is nice subtle, I like that. When are you picking me up from outer-space where you hyper-spaced me to? ;-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

there are lots of theories on how to organise modules

clumps of functionality, clumped voices, voices left to right etc etc - you have to work it out for yourself - try a few different strategies and find the one that works best for you

but generally hands on control at the front tends to work best - joysticks, touchpads etc, sequencers - it really depends on the sequencer - and where the jack sockets are!

@JimHowell1970, right, that is my approach. Just getting ideas how to place modules in new case. Sound sources top row and left bottom and non-sound bottom right like sequencers and envelopes.

Thanks for your advice, this has given me some things to think about!

Maybe at first I should just focus on creating a small playable system. I would then get a 6 or 7u case and integrate modules that can do external audio processing later. Also thanks for the always necessary reminder about utilities. I started with more but of course they slowly got chipped away as I switched out modules.

I haven't bought my rails yet, but I had read about the difference in sizing so I was planning on buying lipless rails. These here are all intellijel format though according to what I've read. The Line In 1u tile will also work independently according to what I could find here: https://intellijel.com/shop/eurorack/1u/line-in-1u/

Thanks for all the other information about the Two59 and the DC coupled interface! I will definitely look a bit more into that and the possibilities with ChucK.

I think I'd just wait and see - keep patching and when you find yourself reaching for something that isn't there... or think of a patch and you are missing something - a sequential switch for example - then look for that - or just spend some time on modulargrid looking through different functions - maybe set the manufacturer to doepfer and read the descriptions and imagine how you would use this module - if you can see it fitting in with the modules you already have then - if something interests you look for similar modules by other manufacturers - watch videos - work out if the potentially more expensive one is that much better than the doepfer - maybe with doepfer you need 2 modules to do what the other module does, but that makes it much more versatile

I'd also spend some time working through manufacturers (this is what I did) - order the modules by price and read the description if anything looks good... then hit you tube

Nowadays I generally just know what I need - vaguely look at new modules as they are released and go - meh...

I bought ALM Pamela's New Workout from @onito974 and Doepfer A-116 from @symbiosis - both modules were shipped the next day and are in absolutely perfect condition, communication also worked very well.
Both highly recommended sellers, thank you!

they were all the rage when they first came out - until people realised that they are a pain in the ass to use because they are too small and fiddly - I have 2 trims (and a couple of others TM and tune, that I don't really use any more - maybe in the future for a small portable rack - or as additional sequencing) - one each side of clouds and they are great for that - set and forget - but playability wise big knobs rule!! which means bigger modules (the same can also be said about the erica pico modules - they are kind of worse though as they are an odd size, which is annoying)

-- JimHowell1970

I don't really have any issues with them, but I do use 1hp spacers when I have multiple 2hp modules next to each other. However, they're mostly spread out between larger modules, so reaching the knobs isn't an issue for me. For example, I keep the Averts next to my Batumi and Ochd modules, the Trim is next to my banana/eurorack converter, etc. I also don't tend to knob-turn a lot once I have a patch going. When I do knob-twiddle, it's usually via Northcoast Modular Collective faders or an Acid Rain Navigator. I guess I prefer sliders?

Cool think I am going to stock up on these tools as soon as black friday sales take place. PNW, Disting EX, and Shades. Maybe get the cool Euclidian Rhythm sequencer as it is small and does cool rythm tricks. Has anyone done patches to sequence a sequencer with other sequencers and what patch tricks worked well for you?

Hi all!

I'm happy to invite you to listen a new release of my band, which is devoted to our 10th anniversary.
A lot of Eurorack modular and Nord modular for pads and drones + electric guitars for solos and riffs.
Ambient / drone doom / + three drum'n'bass remixes.

Gamardah Fungus "10 YEARS COMPILATION: SINGLES, RARITIES, REMIXES"
https://gamardahfungus.bandcamp.com/album/10-years-compilation-singles-rarities-remixes

For utility modules, I'm really happy with my Shades which is a mixer, attenuverter, offsetter and my Kinks which combines an inverter/rectifier, a min/max and a noise/S&H.

If you take a look at most prebuilt systems by modular brands, they usually have those function included.
-- Martebar

shades and kinks are excellent modules (I have a kinks and 3 shades in my racks)

2hp VCA, Avert, and Trim. I never see 2hp mentioned much beyond their Pluck module, but for space saving I really like their utilities.
-- baltergeist

they were all the rage when they first came out - until people realised that they are a pain in the ass to use because they are too small and fiddly - I have 2 trims (and a couple of others TM and tune, that I don't really use any more - maybe in the future for a small portable rack - or as additional sequencing) - one each side of clouds and they are great for that - set and forget - but playability wise big knobs rule!! which means bigger modules (the same can also be said about the erica pico modules - they are kind of worse though as they are an odd size, which is annoying)

My top utilities - Kinks, matrix mixer, stages, maths, shades, doepfer sequential switch

I have to test it today after work. What patch ideas do you recommend to balance out the features of the Varigate 4+ to still let me use the 2/2 configuration for pitch and scale control that would also wrap in the Malekko Quad Envelope and Batumi LFO to modulate the VCOS in my setup? Documentation from Malekko leaves much to be desired as does lack of support! In contrast, the Intellijel documentation is superb.

Hi Jim,

I did order a MI Kinks and MI Links support modules as well for utilities processing ya know :-)

Besides these what do you recommend for support modules and why? I have plenty of free space to add these. Thank you for clarify the purpose of VCAs. Being new to modular, I am still wrapping my head around how a lot of these things work.

Hi all,

Think about downsizing from my Mordax DATA. The Dave Jones O'Tool is very nice, but based on what I'm seeing on Reverb, it would basically be a trade-out and I'm looking to generate some cash as well.

I only use the DATA as an oscilloscope, which means it's a big module with a ton of functionality that I'm not using. The vpme Zeroscope looks much more appropriate for my needs. Anyone here using it? What do you think?

Pam's New Workout, plus 2hp VCA, Avert, and Trim. I never see 2hp mentioned much beyond their Pluck module, but for space saving I really like their utilities.

so what were you trying to do and did it work as you expected?

I see 2 outputs from the quad envelope to the quad vca that seem superfluous - the red and orange cables going into in 3 and 4 of the vca - there's no point listening to envelopes

I don't think Lugia is necessarily suggesting to buy a bigger case!! although I would strongly suggest that 104hp is a much more sensible starter case - and is still very portable, unless you are a small child!!

the idea is to create a much bigger rack on modulargrid so that you can add all the support modules that you actually need for the shiny black expensive modules that you have thrown in you rack and work out each voice so that you can work out how to have fewer voices in the same size rack you have here, but with the support modules that are needed to effectively play it and to be able to patch and repatch in multiple configurations - there is no point buying a modular that can only really be patched effectively 1 way

in doing this you will get a better understanding of what you need in the rack and not just what you want because it looks cool

make copious notes - how you would patch the synth etc etc taking into account things like how you will mix, why are there stereo outputs on the erica dsp, but nothing else is stereo (except the fx aid - I'd go for the XL - more modulation inputs - and probably 2 of these over the erica dsp) - how do you take a mono voice and send it to stereo (panning mixer?) the erica dsp takes the same mono input and copies it both left and right and then processes it - you have no control over this!

I hate odd sized modules - says he thinking very hard about getting an erica seq (it's the cheapest smallest sequencer with memory - i wish it was 4hp and not 3 though!!!)

it will lead to hard decisions - almost definitely remove voices or get a bigger case - or use a smaller sequencer - the nerdseq is overkill in this size case

once you have made the hard decision and implemented it in a modulargrid rack - come back here for a second round of is this actually a workable synth

I tried this patch after reading the manual and watching on video that explains you need to use the 2/2 mode switch on the Varigate 4+ to enable the note, glide and scale features of the Varigate sequencer:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/patches/view/67467

small cases are notoriously difficult to set up - especially for novices

they are almost always compromises - functionality/playability

you may be better off with a doepfer system - the small one in a 6u/84hp case perhaps or just get a mantis (by far the best value/powered case) - yeah the go is cheaper - but it is a blindly built clone of the Mantis power supply in a bigger case - so underpowered for real world applications!!! the small case that you had printed will come in useful as an over spill case or portable case (btw I don't think the line input module will work - you need the case inputs to link it to - which you probably haven't got) I'd also double check that the 1u row is intellijel and not pulp logic design (do the rails have lips? if so it's intellijel) before you buy any 1u tiles

LxD is smaller than either optimix or modemix - dplpg is even smaller!

Maths is maths - it is way more than the sum of it's parts - see illustrated manual (google)

as almost always I would want more utility modules - in this case more mixers (for sub mixing audio and for mixing modulation), and more modulation before another vco (which won't fit in this case - as you haven't enough room for support modules)

a second VCO is a good idea - but only in a bigger case - in this size case 1 vco makes more sense - you already have a second voice in rings

if you like the look of the Two59 be aware it is primarily designed to work as part of a pair with a wavefolder between them to form a complex oscillator - it will work standalone (afaik) - but to get it to be like a buchla 259 you need to add the extra modules

for live coding integration I would be tempted to go with a dc coupled audio interface (RME/Expert Sleepers) and not mess around with converting to midi then sending it to the modular and converting the midi back to cv - this will take more time than -> sending cv as audio and having it immediately available as cv

another alternative would be a cv.ocd which is an external midi ->cv converter (but quite small and inexpensive)

Not workable. There's too many utilities missing here, which is ironic since many of these expensive modules need those unsexy, cheap ones to do what they do.

Tear this down, and start over in a larger cab. MUCH larger. Build what you think SHOULD work...then start paring that down while continuing to make sure you've got the basic functionalities you need.

One other point: this actually DOES NOT have enough VCAs.

Hey thanks for the feedback. I am currently not looking to make the case any larger. Really intrigued with the idea of having something that is very portable as I don't have a place I can really "set up" permanently. I have revised the system and included more utilities(VCA, Manglers, mixers). Let me know what you think.

EDITED Sep 10th 2020, 14:08