New to modular - need your help for patching !

Hi everyone.
I'm new since a couple of months to modular world. I've bought all modules used or did some DIY kits. I have great fun playing on my modular with a Roland TR8S for beats and I can improvise easily 1 hour with both.

The thing is that I'm kind of stuck on the same patch since the start and when I try to change it I don’t have enough creativity on my patches! How would you patch this up?

Thanks a lot guys!

not a lot of utilities in the rack - these are usually the key to patching differently imo

specifically for improving modulation - which is probably where you are struggling

mutable kinks, matrix mixer (get a 4x4 if possible), another modulation source, some passive mults/attenuators, a sequential switch, some basic mixers would all open up patching more for you

it's also very easy to plug the same output of sequencer into the same module - swap these around
also try tuning oscillators to different notes/octaves (within same scale)

use clouds as an oscillator instead of an effect - put something in the buffer!

EDITED Sep 7th 2020, 14:59

Jim's spot-on regarding the utilities. It's obvious that this was built according to "sexy module" standards...and you've figured out why we hammer so much on that! "One-patch wonders" are very much the sort of thing that Sexy Module Syndrome leads to!

OK...for starters, there's only two VCAs in here. And this thing needs LOADS of modulation to make it kick...but without adequate VCAs, you're not going to get those amazing, changing-while-played sounds. Here's how to paint yourself into that corner...see if this sounds familiar...

So, you've got two channels of audio being controlled by your Pitt VCAs. But on one channel, you want this pitch vibrato to also come up slowly as each note is played. Good luck with that!...coz it ain't happening in THIS rig. You'd need another VCA to get that level change + modulation increase. THIS is why we all repeat "You can't have enough VCAs"...because they're simple tools that SEEM boring, but which allow some astonishing things to be patched.

Step 1: OK, those Moogs need to go. Yeah, they're convenient there. They're also more expensive when you take them out of their powered cab and put them in yet another powered cab. And they're currently preventing you from adding the things this build needs.

Step 2: check Jim's "shopping list" above. In fact, spend a veritable BUTTLOAD of time researching those things. They're NOT "optional", as some new synthesists seem to think.

Step 3: how about some more FILTERS? You've got a Wasp and a Ripples...but nothing that really screws with audio hard. Note that I'm NOT counting the Roland Aira module here, as it's less of a module that fits IN a patch and much more akin to an effects device that goes at the END of the patch. Look into something that allows utterly weird routings, that has double filtering, maybe even a resonance path insert. All of those exist...and much more...and allow loads more timbral variety.

Step 4: you might consider a complex oscillator. The only sources here (and I'm not including the Moogs here...seriously, they don't belong in here!) are a Plaits and a Dreadbox Hysteria. Plaits is good, the Dreadbox VCO has quantizing...but nothing here can do really complex internal crossmodulation. And without more VCOs with which to do that, trying to sacrifice either VCO for that purpose won't sound all that good. Even if you just doubled the Plaits and Hysteria, that would be a huge improvement.

This build might look pretty full...but the truth is that it's got some way to go and some mistakes to correct. Not unsalvageable, tho...

For complex oscillator, if I had the rack space and cash, my bet would be for either the Verbos Complex Oscillator or the
Endorphin.es Furthrrrr Generator those are both superb!

But getting back to utilities and so forth, the larger all in one VCA modules like Intellijel Quad VCA and Befaco Hex VCA are great ways to not run out. I have these in my systems and use them a lot. Also for mults, a buffered 4 channel mult is the way to go. I did not think that I would use these a lot but after you are done a boring patch from a VCO to a VCF to VCA you realize more to life is good than just boring drones. I learned why VCAs are great when I started using my Batumi LFO to modulate things. Being able to use 4 VCAs with the Batumi and my two oscillators was super awesome.

I disagree about buffered 4 channel mults being the way to go:

1 you only need buffered mults for v/oct

2 passives are significantly cheaper and you can spread them out better around the rack - and if you don't have space for them you can use headphone splitters etc just as well (or an actual passive mult)

vcas are an essential part of modular synthesis - @sacguy71 - you are just starting to learn why you can never have enough vcas!!!!

@JimHowell1970, true passive mults are what you want 99% of the time for those 1v/oct cases.

I have a few Noise Engineering modules on the way and since these are sensitive to modulation, would passive mults be enough to tame these for modulation purposes say if I feed an LFO into them? I did take your advice from earlier and order a Kinks and Links as well as larger hex VCA for the second case. Now I need the sequential switch, clock, and logic modules. I figure with the four VCOs and 12 VCAs that should cover that area for now in both cases. I will get these additional tools on Black Friday sale.

@JimHowell1970, true passive mults are what you want 99% of the time for those 1v/oct cases.
No - but I think it's just a mistake :-) passive mults are what you want 99% of the time for those NONE 1v/oct cases

I have a few Noise Engineering modules on the way and since these are sensitive to modulation, would passive mults be enough to tame these for modulation purposes say if I feed an LFO into them? I did take your advice from earlier and order a Kinks and Links as well as larger hex VCA for the second case. Now I need the sequential switch, clock, and logic modules. I figure with the four VCOs and 12 VCAs that should cover that area for now in both cases. I will get these additional tools on Black Friday sale.
-- sacguy71

mults will not tame anything!!!
they make copies - that's all

attenuators are what you are looking for for taming modulation - passive ones work fine - I use 2hp trim modules

+1 on the multiples issue here. In a small build they're really cripplers, since they take up valuable panel space that NEEDS to be filled with functionality. And the only reason you'd ever need a buffered mult is if you're trying to split the same signal to many sources, usually four or more. It's not an 'everyday' module, but one with a very specific use.

I never recommend using multiple modules in smaller-sized builds. It makes much more sense to have several passive mult "widgets" on hand instead, as those can go anywhere in a patch without causing weird routing issues and more cable tangles.

Thank you @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia for clarifying mults and attenuators in setups. I will keep the buffered mult and use that with other modules for my second rack as well as the passive mult. I do have attenuators in my Intellijel Quad VCA and can get one for the second new rack. Since I have 2hp free in my first rack, would you recommend the 2hp trim attenuator or another module and if so, what one?

if you are currently using vcas as attenuators I see nothing wrong with adding a trim module to free up vcas - in fact probably what I would do - unless there is anything else you feel is missing - or just leave it for now - you don't have to have every case full to the brim!!

@JimHowell1970,

I am using the quad VCA for attenuator duty they have them built in may as well take advantage of that! I will look into a 2hp trim to fill the empty space. In my second case, I have kinks and links and hex vca coming soon so perhaps throw in a sequential switch and random generator plus logic modules, clock, matrix mixer, and quantizer? I have some passive mults on order to arrive soon. No rush will fill second case more slowly! Realize the third case will be much larger probably in year or two to fit the larger fun modules and plenty of support modules, utility and tools and a better sequencer like Hermod, 512 Vector, Winter Eloquencer or Frap Tools USTA. Realizing that half of a modular setup is utilities and support modules and not 20 fancy oscillators or filters unless one has a massive case!

@JimHowell1970,
Realizing that half of a modular setup is utilities and support modules and not 20 fancy oscillators or filters
-- sacguy71

even when one has a massive case!

@JimHowell1970,

Correct! Well at least the support utility modules cost less than fancy voice ones. My new Doepfer A100 6U case arrived so will hold off adding to it for another year or so unless it is a few key support modules and maybe the new Expert Sleepers Disting EX that will be useful.

nice
good idea try not to buy modules - I have only bought 6 this year so far - I'm going to try to keep it down to about another 3 and maybe a couple of diy ones - plus at least some of the components for my diy backlog - otherwise I'll be needing a new case too

EDITED Sep 11th 2020, 21:14

thanks yeah I have enough to keep me plenty busy learning for the next year or so. Really had fun tonite using the crazy percussion module from Noise Engineering B.I.A. and new Erica Synths Polivoks filter with Batumi and Varigate 4+ modes. Now I can the case for the utility modules and ways to split signals. Probably order the things I need like matrix mixer and what not. Fortunately these are way less.

Something I find with my rack is that I can sometimes stretch my clock sources too far and occasionally a module won't react to a pulse. I solved this by sending the clock to a Buffered Mult before splitting / distributing it around my system.

Thanks for detailed answer @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia
Indeed I need to change my way to procede. Looking for modules on Youtube isn't the best way to explore patches and trigger your creativity. You get easily seduce by sexy modules while being new. I totally agree

First yeah I have to take those moog modules out of the case to free the space in order to add a bunch of utility and logic modules (I haven't looked up for a matix mixer but now that I did, I cleary need one) I think I'll go for a joystick too (Planar² seems great fun)

For sound sources, it's clear that I need more. I was planning to get a piston Honda and some filters (one Polivoks filter for sure)

I was planing to get more VCAs (Hexvca Befaco) and a quad attenuator in order to throw a bunch of them in my patches to have more control of each patches and send them to my mixer Worn Soundstage. I believe this enough to have a good mix of all my patches, but I'm not 100% certain.

I'm not planing to sell anything yet, I'll buy more modules and explore the patches. See what do fits the best and then sell what I don't need anymore.
Thanks a lot for bringing your expertise!

EDITED Sep 14th 2020, 09:42

Thanks for detailed answer @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia
Indeed I need to change my way to procede. Looking for modules on Youtube isn't the best way to explore patches and trigger your creativity. You get easily seduce by sexy modules while being new. I totally agree

learning....

First yeah I have to take those moog modules out of the case to free the space in order to add a bunch of utility and logic modules (I haven't looked up for a matix mixer but now that I did, I cleary need one) I think I'll go for a joystick too (Planar² seems great fun)

yeah a matrix mixer and a handful of stackcables makes you modulation go a lot further - especially when paired with a kinks

For sound sources, it's clear that I need more. I was planning to get a piston Honda and some filters (one Polivoks filter for sure)

Not convinced - I count 6 in total (including clouds) already!

I was planing to get more VCAs (Hexvca Befaco) and a quad attenuator in order to throw a bunch of them in my patches to have more control of each patches and send them to my mixer Worn Soundstage. I believe this enough to have a good mix of all my patches, but I'm not 100% certain.

I would just go with 2 2hp trim modules for attneuation - and see if you need more vcas - you may not

I'm not planing to sell anything yet, I'll buy more modules and explore the patches. See what do fits the best and then sell what I don't need anymore.
Thanks a lot for bringing your expertise!

-- Angular_drift

I haven't sold a single module in over 3 years

Mind you in the last 30 years I have only sold 3 guitars and a bass - to fund modules - I still have guitars and a bass though