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I'm a classically trained musician, but I haven't played saxophone in 15 years. I'd like to get into modular to compose my own music for my YouTube videos. I'm mostly inspired by the minimalists like Steve Reich, John Adams and even Hans Zimer.

Here's my proposed current rack. I would appreciate any critiques or opinions to improve, make better, or let me know what I'm missing.

I want everything to fit in a 104 hp skiff with a budget of $2,000, slightly less than the cost of buying a used professional saxophone. Since I have wood working skills, I can build my own case.

Here's my latest YouTube video to give you and idea of the kinds of videos I make.

(NOTE: I did not compose the music in the above follow video, but after 700+ videos on YouTube, I've begun to exhaust the audio library of the kinds of music I want to use:)

Let me know Thanks!

EDITED Feb 17th 2020, 21:35

I swapped the Rene for the Nerdseq sequencer... and heaven on earth!
Very playable... and much, much more possibilities for musicality.

No menu diving, everything 1 layer deep.

Just uploaded a new video of the patch, that started the creation of our album “Natural Storm”.
Super slow chord and noise modulation on Make Noise Telharmonic and Mutable Instruments Plaits, plus guitar sample recorded by our guitar player. More explanations under video on YT.

Try https://www.modulargrid.net/e/befaco-instrument-interface-v2 or https://www.modulargrid.net/e/befaco-inamp

Yep, it's a modular. If there's no jungle, it's not being used.

Oh, I've also had two manufacturer specific areas. Still have one. While it looked nice (unpatched), I found it makes the whole rack less obvious to use. Of course, for some modules - and especially with Mutable - where it belongs kind of depends on which mode it is in. Grouping at least the extremely mutable Mutable stuff could be a reasonable solution.

Even when working in polyphonic or multitimbral patches, this layout method works...because it has the built-in asset of, if something sounds wrong, you can be very sure just by listening as to where the wrongness is. So it actually tends to make complex patches easier to sort out and use. Yes, the patchcord jungle is fairly daunting...but if you're talking about complex orders of control, several layers of patching, etc, it's going to get that way anyway, so adopting a method that's worked for decades (I based it on the ARP 2600 layout, basically) you get the complexity AND a method for controlling it that makes a bit more sense.

I'm kind of in the same place. My self built rack is almost full. I could replace it with a different one 20hp wider, but that'd be quite expensive for relatively little gain. I'd also be left with quite an amount of rails in a size I wouldn't have any usage for. So...
Take the opportunity and stop the madness of an ever growing system? Or get a smaller, possibly portable second one?
Should that be a standalone system or more of an extension?
On the minus side the first (additional case) option would probably mean duplicate functions eating up valuable space. On the plus side, a portable case opens up new possibilities (live performance, jamming with other people, patching on the sofa, drowning while making a modular YouTube video in a fisher boat out on the Atlantic Ocean...).
The latter (extension) option would necessitate very careful planning as to what sort of signals get send back and forth and thus limit the versatility. When reading about modules like the A-180-9 I got the sense that there might/will be some amount of crosstalk. So it'd probably a good idea to also take that into account. But that option could also mean less switching about of modules between "live" and "studio" rack.
I don't know. Was that too long and rambling? Did it make sense? What was the question again?
My current rack layout is similar to Lugia's suggestion, except my CV tools are more like above and in between the filters and fx. I'm not yet satisfied with some aspects of that and will reorder everything once I've decided on how to go ahead regarding a new rack.

EDITED Feb 17th 2020, 03:31

Hello Lugia, All,

Currently I have five rows rack and use roughly a few brands per row (Doepfer and Erica Synths have each their own row; the rest of the brands are smaller (in my setup) and share with other brands a row. Then per row I start on the left hand side (roughly indication, going here from left to right) with input modules (MIDI) and clock stuff, then multiples, then oscillators & LFOs, then EGs, filters, effects and mixers, somewhere around here a few multiples again (I know perhaps a few too many but I like to have enough multiples around the modules) and ending with VCAs and output modules on the right (my external mixer is on the right hand side).

So far I felt it was "kind of okay" however now I am trying to use it polyphonic and slowly but surely I am struggling too with what is logical? What makes more sense? How to manage certain connections with shorter patch cables?

Your idea, Lugia, is quite interesting, I am going to give that some serious thoughts. How is your mentioned setup holding up when you are getting more voices (say four or more voices) parallel involved, does it still work out good? Not getting crazy of the many cables blocking almost everywhere? ;-) I am luckily taking that with some good portion of humour, i.e. it doesn't bother me too much, using one hand to "move away the many cables", so the other hand has space to reach the knobs... not very suitable for a live setup to say at the least. Though it came to my mind being an octopus and having 8 "hands" would be kind of easy...

Next question, nasty one... My rack is close to full and no further space, the only possibility is getting another rack on the other side of my desk, still within almost hand reach if I turn my body but completely away from my current rack, due to space constraints, I have no other option (or not to extend at all, which I don't consider as an actual option :-) ). I am planning to use the Doepfer A-180-9 to interconnect these "two rack sides" with each other.

So what would then be a logical setup? I have no clue yet other than keeping up my current configuration of continuing the newer rack for other brands per row principle, however the idea of Lugia would be interesting and would make sense too; using that for each "rack side".

Any suggestions and any one else who uses a different setup that might help to simplify the complexity of "module positioning" are welcome.

Thank you very much in advance and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Tonys,

That's actually a very good question. I am still in the search for a "good" sequencer (well... what is good or how would one define good, is yet another quite extensive discussion ;-) ) and haven't found yet one that totally satisfy me. I am waiting for endorphin.es Ground Control and Erica Synths Black Sequencer to be released, though they have been announced almost a year ago now, they are still not available yet :-(

Meanwhile the sequencer I am most happy with is the Xaoc Tirana, a little nice sequencer that's chain-able, I wish all sequencers would be chain-able (not only into steps but also in number of channels/tracks).

Good luck with the search for a "good" sequencer and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Peaks 1: Trigger Stream Randomizer into
Peaks 2: 4-note sequencer

Manually add Dry/Wet to ES Dual FX, and to Befaco Hexpander to mix in

Metropolis uses chromatic scale

Hi Gruftgrabbler,

Not sure if you are aware that:

A) This forum is (mainly) in English :-)

and B) You put this public in the Racks forum, this is not your private rack view area or whatever you might have thought ;-)

Anyway, welcome to modular and yes, you never can have enough VCAs but the same goes for quite a few others as well like oscillators, filters, modulators, well basically almost everything!

Have fun and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Ich glaube ich könnte noch schauen ob ich ein oder zwei mehr VCAs hinzufüge. 4 Könnten auf Dauer zu wenig werden wenn man nicht nur Audiosignale sondern auch Modulationssignale modulieren will.

EDIT: Einerseits hat Plaits ja einen eingebauten VCA und benötigt nicht unbedingt einen weiteren. Dann könnte das sogar reichen. Trotzdem "You can never have enough VCAs!"

EDITED Feb 16th 2020, 22:02

Thank you for all your answers. For now I have a feedback from 15 people, so it is quite nice :).

I initially planed to go to Superbooth, but since I have some health issues now (and surgery in March), I'm not sure if I will be able to travel. But If wait, I am looking forward to see some of you in Berlin :)

L.

I tried to wrap my head around O_C sequencers and the Turing machine mode but I do hate menu diving . But should try again and again

For sequence I have a Beatstep pro and Make Noise Rene .
What I’m looking for is a more generative melodies type so I can record and choose the happy incidents

I suggest a few additions to get more "melody".
Add a sequencer, a sampler and a keyboard.

I'm not big on recommending specific modules or solutions. You may get your hands on a sequencer that you find intuitive and simple to use and I find it clumsy and awkward. Do you already have or used something that works? You may like a sampler/sequencer integrated in one product. There are many solutions.

Personally I prefer an onboard eurorack module sequencer, external sampler and keyboard.

These search terms will send you down a rabbit hole of options.

eurorack sequencer
hardware sequencer
sampler sequencer
sampler sequencer hardware
midi keyboard
usb keyboard controller

Thanks for helping me :)

I will do all this exemples as soon as I go to the studio .. gonna get 2 days off work

So much to learn, so little time !!

boombipbass -- ***@hotmail.com -- is a fraud! I have a similar experience, only I paid for a module which he shipped to me broken and unusable (and with unoriginal knobs, and without power cable -- he advertised it as "As new"). When I messaged him the module was broken, he said "I dont accept returns" and has not answered messages since. A total asshole.

EDITED Sep 27th 2022, 15:15

He is a fraud! I have a similar experience, only I paid for a module which he shipped to me broken and unusable (and with unoriginal knobs, and without power cable -- he advertised it as "As new"). When I messaged him the module was broken, he said "I dont accept returns" and has not answered messages since. A total asshole.

Thanks all. As usual part of the charm of Eurorack is that you have to dig in and experiment. Much like early
computers there are no real guidposts for questions like this yet. I think there is a logic to how the workflow
should go so your not stretching cables into knots when you don't have to. Thanks for concrete information
based on your experiences. Gotta love Modulargrid for that. ^.^

Dear guys,

I let some time passed and now I'm back to you. I revisited my idea, I added a lot of space and modules. I think it's an expansion of my original idea. To refresh your mind, I want that all will be set around the sequencers and I'd love also to interact with other external synth of my studio, that's why I included the intellijel interface. Could you please explain what do you think now? I know maybe this system is a bit bigger as a starting eurorack but I'd also love it to be a long time instrument, I don't want to struggle every day to what to add or remove.

Thanks in advance for your time, best.

Marco

Hi Luigia! Only getting back to now. It was a busy week!!
Thank you very much the details.. i had to read your last post a couple of times but took away most of it, done some bedtime reading on the subject!

One last question. On the noted rack at the beginning of the post , i see 2x6 channels which by seeing his videos/routing seems to be fully used.
If i were to maximise space. Could i remove 1 mixer and use one along the intellijel quad? Since it does mixer too? You may say depending my needs I’d suppose.. but would this be a good way to efficiently manage hp?

I was thinking as alternative to use a doepfer 130-2 and see where it takes me.. but 2vcas now that understand better it purpose seems little and indeed 4 by default seems better!!

Thank you

EDITED Feb 15th 2020, 12:02

Don't replicate the actual module layouts...just the signal flow!

If you look at the ARP 2600, you'll see a pattern: sources are up and leftward, VCF and VCA up and more middle, mixer up and right. MOST modulation sources are down, with the exception of the two EGs.

Now, what this does is to set up a signal flow in which modulation and CVs come UP to the sources and modifiers. Then the audio from these goes ACROSS from left to right. Now, this is where it stops as the output on the 2600 is right above the mixer...but in a Eurorack build, it's possible to make the flow even clearer by following the ARP 2600 pattern and THEN "correcting" for the different format. So, in Eurorack, you'd want your sources (VCOs, external in, etc) in the upper row and left then toward the center. Sum these (and waveshape them, ring mod, etc etc) at the right end and send the audio DOWN to row 2, where you have your filters and effects, then DOWN once more to a performance mixer and out. Meanwhile, your control/timing should be in the lower row, next to the mixer (which is technically also a controller when you think about it!) and its signals should feed UP. Above that row are modulation sources...LFOs, EGs, noise and S&H, etc...so that they can "branch" out from that area to affect the surrounding modules as well as tamper with the upward-moving CV/mod signals heading to the sources above them.

Now THAT is how you lay one of these out. Everything is in "blocks", so that when you need to adjust something which you hear is wrong, you can more instinctively go to the area where the problem is coming from. And the flow makes sense: up-left, down-right.

A bit of history on Maths: the basic circuit is West Coast...but NOT Buchla. It's actually based on the Serge Universal Slope Generator and some revisions to that made by Ken Stone. Tony apparently decided that having just ONE Serge DUSG wasn't enough, so the Maths actually jams two in there...which means you have FOUR USG variants with a bunch of extra voodoo to get them pinging off of each other more easily.

Hi Gridpeople,

im not new to synthesis but im new to modular. I have built a nice setup and a little space left. I wanted to ask if you can give an opinion about it and if I missed something really important. If so, feel free to recommend whatever you think.
Also i would love to hear if there is something you would have done differently. Maybe reorder modules for better ergonomics, switch something to have better sound, add VCA`s... whatever. Hit me with your wisdom!

At the moment I am using the rack for live/studio techno, ambient, noisy stuff. I also have some external gear: Octatrack, TR-8s, Dfam, System 1m a Lyra and a MS20+SQ1.

Thanks in advance!

This is a subject that is just starting to confuse me too, so far I have bought quite a few of the great little 2hp modules and it does give quite a bit of constraint for fingers and patching. So I'm now thinking about Layout, all the small 2hp modules want to be scattered around so they are more accessible around lager hp modules.
I'm basically working across 3 rows, and I'm thinking i want to try and have the control bits like modulators, sequencers and Mixing on the bottom row then push the sound sources up and maybe the effects too.
I'm hoping things just become apparent where they should go as I buy more modules!!!
I'm half tempted to get another case and purpose it just for the output sections of mixer, effects etc etc

Good Luck!

This is a really good question as I only know from trial and error - not sure if there is a guide out there.

So you want to keep the things like LFO's and other modulation sources kind of in the middle with the clocks and the sequencers so the cable runs are shorter. then the envelopes, then the filters, then the osciallators.. on the lower rt. corner slap the final mixer. Effects also near the mixer since you usually send those directly over. Get some of those double plug in type patch cords too those are a huge help.

Use the rene and then keep changing octaves, use only 6 notes in your progression and make sure to add some blank spots and spaces. also the glide sounds really cool. then make sure with those six notes you use rene to mix it up, change quantization range, reduce notes even from the normal scale.. loop that.

Then for your change, simply slow the clock by 1/4 so it holds each note longer and then while that's going on modulate the hell out of it by hand or with an LFO gone crazy.. then go back to the regular clock, repeat with different envelopes every time too especially on your filters you have at least 3 nice filters so open those using the same envelope (or different) that you open the VCA.

Finally, make sure to use your FM on the oscillators - output a wave from one, to the FM input of another and use that for a crazy solo type thing. just some ideas, nice system! love the size since I have one very similar to it.

You can submit modules yourself: Modules > Submit a module.
Copy the info form the existing Yarns and it's done ;)

This is a request to put in the Magpie black panel for the MI Yarns into the module list.
Panel with not so great photos can be found here: https://store.magpiemodular.com/products/murdered-out-yarns-custom-panel?_pos=1&_sid=72c2172a0&_ss=r

and a better phot here: https://reverb.com/item/17097917-mutable-instruments-yarns-eurorack-midi-interface-module-w-magpie-panel

This is probably the most vexing part of Eurorack for me at the moment.
What is the best, most efficient way to lay out the modules? My take on
it for now has been to look at how older things like the Arp 2600 or the
Moog System 55 where put together but while the VCO/VCF/VCA thing
seems logical, once the wires start multiplying like rabbits it might not
be. Should the CV control sorts of modules like LFOs and Maths and such
be in the center to allow them access to all the other modules? What was
your experience once you actually started exploring sounds? My only
caveat here is that this will be used in a home studio. I won't have to worry
about doing things on the fly at a show or anything.

Yeah, looks like Maths is going in the build. I mean, I could leave it out but one of the things that fascinates me is
generative music and this module seems indispensible for it. I'm taking my time and buying modules slowly to
build the Big System eventually. Not in a rush, just want it to be complete when I finally build it. Yes I can hear
the laughter after using the word "complete" with Eurocrack. XD

EDITED Feb 14th 2020, 05:33

Much thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Helped clear things up a lot!

Your Ornaments & Crime has some possibilities for you. There's a Turing Machine mode built in with up to four outputs that can be quantized inside the machine. You can control it externally with the Maths module for convenience.

You can use the dual quantizer in O_C. Feed it an LFO or mix of LFOs attenuated by Maths or your A-138. You can trigger the quantizing via Pamela's New Workout running a Euclidean Rhythms pattern. Your Batumi can sync to a clock or reset from PNW, so the melody can be repeated.

In both cases, you're not having to come up with your own melodies but your system is generating them for you.

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 23:29

I'll second that last bit from Ronin: split out your sequencing and control (and performance mixer...which you don't have YET) to open space for the stuff you missed. The present build has some good toys in it, but it's missing the "basics" that will allow them to really cut loose. Also, yeah, the module ordering/layout is really a mess; try grouping your functions together...generators, modifiers, modulators, controllers...and that will make for a more cohesive result, much easier to navigate.

BTW, this tale is a really good example of why I tell people to avoid the majority of synth videos on YouTube...at least, as a source of authoritative info. Remember: a lot of those are nothing more than commercials and the person waving the module at you and screeching about how AWESOME and INDISPENSABLE and [insert imperative adjective here] it is...well, they probably got the one they're waving around as an "accommodation", hence the added enthusiasm. But those things are designed to suck you in just as effectively as anything you'd see on TV for detergent or cars or deodorant or soda or or or...

You have 2 attenuverter with Maths (CH 2 and 3) so if you patch an LFO in one of these 2 channels you can attenuate the signal.

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 22:40

Yes. It looks like you got a little bit of G.A.S. when picking out modules. No judgment. We all do it. But just looking over the rack briefly, this is what I'm picking up:

The rack seems weirdly organized. I'm trying to pick up on the logic of how things are organized. For me, I try to put like things together: oscillators, filters, effects, etc. I then try to organize the groups so things that are commonly patched together are in short reach of each other so I'm not patching cables from one end of the case to the other and then back again.

You bought some pretty specialized gear. But you're a bit light on some of the traditional "bread and butter" modules. Two true analog VCOs wouldn't be a bad thing in here. A pair of full ADSR envelope generators. A noise source and a sample and hold module. Those would be nice too. A four to six channel mixer would also be nice. Also, I didn't see any dedicated VCAs. It's hard to tell with a link to a picture of your rack rather than a link to the rack itself.

If you're not wanting to part with anything, I'd get a skiff and place your sequencing and control stuff in it. I'd then get some bread and butter modules and put them in the main rack as well.

Thank you Ronin!
And that's good, I also offer a bass drum

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 23:04

Hi guys, well buying , buying stuff and now finally have my Eurorack case complete but as i am a little rookie here i am struggling to make some melodies and need some patch advice .

I do Techno and more minimal music

Also have a Beatstep pro that i use to start a session and its ok but i also need advice to make some nice movement etc. Dont get me wrong i have lfos etc and i patch it but sometimes its not very smooth

cheers

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 18:59

Looks nice. I have a stereo Sir-Mix-A-Lot with six channels on it with an expansion port. This would be awesome for submixing drums.

Ronin—that makes a lot of sense, thanks. Tall Dog makes an 8hp O_C in silver that I've had my eye on—that would complement their uPlaits I've got in there. MD + Pam's + Steppy would give me plenty of sequencing capability to stay in the case.

Out of curiosity, what are some of your go-to modulation sources you enjoy alongside BIA?

-- aarontw

Just remember that Steppy and Pam's New Workout only offer triggers and gates... no pitch CV. Steppy allows for a lot of real time changes... Pam allows for more features and functionality. Plum Audio offers an Intellijel 1U version of Ornaments & Crime if you ever consider replacing the Steppy with something else. But being able to reconfigure your sequence on the fly is a powerful aspect of any type of sequencing.

2020 (PSU) 2020.02.13

Wanted to call this out for anyone who might be considering this one– I've just added the v2 of this mixer to my rack and am super happy with it; the size-to-feature ratio is fantastic and sound is very clean. It's the only mixer I could find at this hp with aux send/return, channel mutes and individual track panning. The creator was very helpful and friendly throughout the ordering process and receptive to suggestions. If it's got what you're looking for, I can't recommend it enough.

Ah, no, I'm not coming our of the modular direct, into a Yamaha MG8 mixer first. I need to experiment more, the audio I manage to record into the iphone is too quiet if plugging direct, it only gets loud enough via the iRig 2 adapter but then its just Mono.

Hi Arontwee,

I like your picture, it's good looking and especially your humour behind that is what I like: Do you really need that coaster? Does the rack/case get so hot? ;-)

Have fun with modular and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Thx for the kind words, Garfield — ha, good eye ;-)
I like having a pad of some kind underneath my various instruments—in lieu of having a proper stand—so I can move them around on my (fairly crowded) desk and reconfigure as needed.

Cheers!

Ronin—that makes a lot of sense, thanks. Tall Dog makes an 8hp O_C in silver that I've had my eye on—that would complement their uPlaits I've got in there. MD + Pam's + Steppy would give me plenty of sequencing capability to stay in the case.

Out of curiosity, what are some of your go-to modulation sources you enjoy alongside BIA?

what kind of beautiful cool groovey sequence do you have while patches that don't get boring after hours of patching?

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

You are taking a direct output from Eurorack into your iPhone? If yes, then indeed that will be far too loud, ha, ha, Eurorack audio signals are at a much higher audio voltage level than normal audio lines. So get yourself a good audio interface module (for example the one from Intellijel) and that should solve your problem.

Keep up the good music but don't blow up your iPhone ;-) and kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: Removed typo.

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 20:34

Hi Arontwee,

I like your picture, it's good looking and especially your humour behind that is what I like: Do you really need that coaster? Does the rack/case get so hot? ;-)

Have fun with modular and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for the feedback & ideas, Ronin!

I hear you re: Maths—and get the appeal of a stay-in-the-case system. The current setup is a bit limited in being able to easily create melodic sequences internally. I could do some row rotation sequencing w/ Pam's and send that cv to the mk4 in a quantizer mode—that ties up two key modules pretty well, though.

I'm a fan of Mimetic Digitalis and its approach to cv sequencing—can I get by without using a quantizer with it? I believe it can do semitones. And any other compact cv sequencers that you'd consider for pitch sequencing?

I'd have another 10hp slot for one module to work with after that—the palette allows up to 12 modules, so that'd rule out an 8hp O_C AND a 2hp module. There is the Blue Lantern O_C at 10hp—though, I am tempted to get a Basimilus Iteritas Alter (10hp) in that slot ;-)
-- aarontw

It doesn't strictly adhere to pitch and definitely not to scale (apart from chromatic). The Mk4 does have a quantizer. But then you're tying up that module. That's why I recommended the O_C as well (dual quantizer onboard)... and get the one that is 8HP. Smaller is better.

The Basimilus Iteritas is okay. I own one. But it doesn't really play well with others and requires a ton of modulation sources to really get it to 'sing'. So it might not be a great module for a small case unless you're featuring it.

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 19:23