The Sinfonium appears not to be working properly. I followed the manual to a tee and no luck. I'm experienced user and have done all the typical trouble shooting.
1. checked power
2. double checked instructions
3. all my other modules are performing correctly, tuning v/oct, my other quantizers are working, my sequencer is performing as usual, envelopes, lfo etc.
4. The root knob doesn't do anything and the module doesn't respond to incoming lfo, tried different lfos , different frequency ranges but nothing changes
5. I check with my tuner and the sinfonium outputs do not pass any signal
6. the screen appears to work although I cannot navigate to all the different keys for instance it says to go to key of c and the knob range stops at d at the bottom left.
As I'm getting into modular, I'm struck by an overall question: are there bad modules / brands / clones to avoid?
I've scanned the "most used" and "best reviewed" modules on MG. Also done some Google searches for best / favorite modules; those generally align with the MG rankings. I see a handful of brands bubble to the top of the "best reviewed, most used" modules lists. But as I scan Modular Grid and read posts / racks posted by much more experienced modular synthesists, I see a TON of various modules and brands being used, and quite a lot of clones, which provide some advantage on $, HP or availability.
I'm hoping to avoid "bad" modules -- "bad" might mean: i) unwanted noise ii) lacking important performance precision (e.g. poor pitch tracking, etc.) iii) poor durability / build quality / prone to failure iv) and maybe some other demerits.
So, what would you say to me and other newbies:
-- are there obvious brands to stay away from?
-- are most clones as good as originals?
-- or does a buyer really need to check every module for user ratings and press reviews?
Of course there is "bad" in terms of less-than optimal in $, performance, HP, or for a given use for specific purposes, but I expect I'll need to continue to research / evaluate modules for "strong fit."
Well, if you want a "brain explode" moment...back when the initial work was getting done on VCV Rack, I'd DLed the package around the 0.5-ish version range. Install, fire it up, load modules, start screwing around, and...CRASH CRASH CRASH.
Naturally, I was a bit peeved, but it WAS still in beta after all. So, taking care to watch the widget that I use to track core use and load, I fired it up again. And yep...CRASH...but THIS time, I'd been watching the widget and was more than slightly horrified!
The app had ZERO multithreading capability. It was totally incapable of utilizing multicore architecture. I was a little dumbfounded, so I went over to the user forum and pointed out that it wasn't capable of being used in that way, which seriously crippled the capability of the app. What I got next was a snarky post along the lines of "you musicians don't understand programming...you don't know what's needed for multicore support"...etc etc etc. Huh.
Time passes, and finally VCV gets out of beta. And I had a fresh look...and sure enough, one of the first new features waaaaaas...
...multithreading. It's nice when you're right, even if it takes some time to prove the point. But had the developers stuck to their guns on this, VCV would be a footnote, and NOT a reliable workhorse. I didn't see the point in not supporting multithreading, given how much of a processor load the betas would put on the single core they'd have access to, and thankfully they got the point eventually, too.
Honestly, I won't really be satisfied with computers until I can finally have a room-temp quantum setup...whenever that happens. Even at 32 threads, I know I'm pushing the hell out of the Z620 on some of my Ableton productions, and eventually, there will be that need for MOAR!
Well, for starters, you could link the actual build instead of just putting the JPEG of it up. Go back to your original post, delete the current link, then link the actual build page's URL and reload the post. That way, others can have a go at it...otherwise, it's a bit of a pain to make alterations, etc.
The only question that comes to mind when looking at this is "why?" The layout is totally dysfunctional, for starters. Why would you slather this in blanks? Why use 6 x 168 hp for such a small module complement? Why are there several prepowered and precased synths in this when they should almost certainly be back in their own cabs, on their own DC rails? And why build it like this? I semi-sorta get that this is probably some sort of religious thing...but lemme explain something...
Years ago, back in Nashville, I did a couple of sessions for artists on Benson. And I don't think any of them would've been caught dead with something like this. Those were pro session guys and pro musicians, and they knew full well that you DIDN'T compromise your gear, no matter what sort of statement you're trying to make. And this build here is ridiculously compromised. It'll be a massive pain to cart around, patch, play...you name it. No session player I worked with back there...and that runs a gamut from contemporary Christian to hardcore punk...would do something to make their instruments that they depended on MORE DIFFICULT to use!
I strongly suggest that, if this isn't some kind of troll build or such, you delete this. Take the Moogs and the Strega out of the case. Shrink the case back down to a sensible size for the module complement. Then arrange the modules in a way that makes even 1% more sense than this...at least it would then be 1% sensible! Otherwise, I guarantee that you're on the road to having one VERY unplayable synth.
Well, I had a bash at this...probably good, too, as there were some discontinued and/or wrong versions of modules in the original build. Plus, there was a LOT missing...attenuverters, modulation utilities, and so on. Plus, in this sort of case, you've GOT to minimize space while maximizing function. Now, it might SEEM like a bunch of your modules are missing here, but what I've done is to replace everything that could be "shrunk" with their smaller counterparts in a number of cases. Plus, the AS modules were deep...as in, REAL deep, to the point that I had some concerns about the depth on them. In others, I just reworked things altogether, such as the drum modules (gone...and you'll see why in a bit). Anyway, the result I got was:
OK...so, what's going on here? Let's have a look...
Top row: Single Plaits: gone. Replacement: TWO Plaits clones. Two VCOs is always better...you can detune them for a huge, fat sound, or you can split 'em out as individual voice sources, or you can use one to FM the other, and so on. Added a wavefolder for even crazier timbral tampering under CV control. Quad VCA: also gone. Replacement: Codex Modulex's clone of the Mutable Veils, basically the same thing minus 4 hp. Then the VCFs...I tossed the earlier ones, and went with one very different one and one not so different one. The "very" is G-Storm's clone of the famous and wonderful Roland JP-6 filter, while the "not so" is the version of Happy Nerding's SVF which has the other modulation/control inputs, as opposed to the one that was there. Same core, better tricks. Also, the G-Storm filter has its own 2-in mixer, so if you want to bypass the VCAs altogether, you can send both Plaits clones directly. Elements got shrunk by a whole bunch, again thanks to Codex Modulex. And THIS allowed the next two modules...one is a stereo mixer, as you can see...and the OTHER is Squarp's Rample, a four-channel sampler/looper. Now, remember that thing about the drums? This not only fixes that (if you use it for drum samples), but gives you the ability to submix the entire sampling module and send it to...well, we'll get to that...
Middle row: Konstant Labs PWRchekr, because it's good to be able to keep an eye on your DC rail performance. Then Ladik's little gated slew limiter, for portamento and such. After that, I added one of Doepfer's useful utility modules, with this one having noise and random sources, and a sample and hold that can be switched to track-and-hold. Kept one Disting, and it's next...then the Tides got shrunk. Right after that, you'll find a 2hp attenuverter...very useful for inverting Tides outputs if desired. Maths is next (the right version), then a Frap 321 lets you mix, mangle, alter, and screw with in general your modulation sources. A 3xVCA is next so that you'll have some DC-coupled linear VCAs for modulation level control. Then FOUR envelope gens are hiding in the Zadar (which has its Nin expander here as well). And the last thing is more for the mixer below...or you can use it with the stereo mix from the Rample...a Make Noise Mimeophon stereo delay with loads of timbral options.
Bottom row: the original MIDI interface was just too clunky, so I chucked it in favor of an Expert Sleepers FH-2. This is not merely a MIDI-in interface, but also a class-compliant keyboard (via USB) interface, which will let you connect any keyboard that outputs MIDI over USB directly to the synth. MUCH more potent! Eloquencer's next...then next to it is another FX module, in this case a Purrtronics spring reverb emulator, which is a mono-in, stereo-out device, and you need that sort of I/O for the mixer. And that mixer is a Toppobrillo Stereomix2...which gives you VCAs on each input, plus CV over panning and AUX sends. You also have silent mutes, a CUE bus...and importantly, a mono AUX send and stereo AUX return. Then that last module is a Happy Nerding OUT...offering your main headphone preamp (the Stereomix2 has one as well, but you might find that one more useful for the CUE function) and a little surprise: TWO stereo inputs, one of which has its own input level (pre-fader...yep, you also have a ganged stereo level control) so that you can fly a stereo signal over the rest of the mix. Remember that thing about the Rample's submixer? That's one good use for the second stereo input. Another might be to split your AUX send, send one to the reverb, and the other to the Mimeophon, then you can mix the Mimeophon back in via the extra stereo in.
So...what happened? Basically, I made things smaller while pushing to INCREASE the functionality. Also, you'll notice that everything's been reordered so that you have cohesive function "groups", which function together as opposed to just a collection of modules. I added some very necessary utilities, also...and so on, until this was the result. And the fun part is that it's only a couple of hundred bucks (if that) more than the original once I put the Eloquencer back into it. This should be far more functional than the original, plus it offers some interesting NEW functions that you might not have thought of, like the JP-6 filter clone or the 4-channel sampler, some effects, full CV control over your main mixer, etc etc etc. Very beefed up.
I hear you! I'm also stepping into modular because:
-- my VSTs sound great, but it is hard (or at least not very fun) to try to get really dynamic and evolving sounds out of them
-- I do want to do stuff with my hands, not always a mouse
-- the modular VSTs are a crazy pain in the a$$ to work with IMO. Yes their powerful and sound good, but the combination of needing to mouse everything, the latency / lag, being only able to touch one control at a time, etc. etc. etc. Some time cursing at my "preferred" VST modular is what convinced me to get into analog modular! Maybe I'm just not patient enough with these.
-- I do think analog modular can do some compelling things VSTs and non-modular hardware can't
As such, I'm trying to focus my modular builds / experience on what can't be achieved well in other formats, or isn't fun in other formats. IMO that includes:
-- complex oscillators esp. those with audio rate modulation. Instruo Cs-L, Make Noise DPO, Steady State Fate ZPO, Rossum Trident, Future Sound Systems OSC2... those and a few others I think are super interesting, and to my knowledge, have no great VST alternative.
-- complex filters and waveshapers: Make Noiose QPAS, SSF Stereo Dipole, Rossum Linnaus, Intellijel Bifold, etc. IMO unique analog filters and waveshapers, that can be modulated deeply (and/or at audio rate), this is super interesting and another domain of sound design not well handled in formats outside of analog modular
-- complex control signals and "generative" audio. A search for "generative" on this forum yields a lot of interesting posts. To my knowledge, the generative work you can do in analog modular is beyond what's presently possible (or easy / fun) to do in other formats.
-- experimentation: I got a super disgusting (great) sound out of a resonant filter driven to distortion "struck" by a short envelope. Sonic and technical experimentation, I really dig, and modular is a great playground to do that
-- happy accidents: a modular system has all kinds of surprises and non-linearities in it. My Sylenth1 (which I love) will always sound the same with the same patch; my modular system, I could hardly get to sound exactly the same twice to save my life.
My basic idea is to try to build a rack that fits my tastes and excels at what modular is good at (hopefully avoiding creating an expensive and cumbersome unit that can be outperformed by general VSTs)
So that's a little of what brings me to modular, and a few (module) ideas that may be interesting to you. Relatedly, I can suggest you check out this thread by Farkas: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9756
Last, I should point you to VCVrack; if you don't already know it, this is the "Eurorack simulator" software, which carries emulations of most modules. It looks like they will have a VST version coming out, but presently it is a standalone. My understanding is this is widely used to trial modules, rigs, and patches.
Oh, wow! What a tension that's being build up in the first part of the track, so tense! I sat on the tip of the chair wanted to be swallowed by the video and the music, become a part of it and at the same time feeling scared too!
Nicely done and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
The Erica Synths - Black 8 Multi is so far the best buffered multiple I have. Being "the best" as in comfortable to use and from a patching point of view. The bad news is that it's sold out :-( I only got one of it and wanted to buy a few more but then I was already too late. I checked this with Erica Synths but it's really sold out :-(
The Black 8 Multi is so logical to use and it has four outputs per input channel, no other modules (with 4 HP width) can do that, as far as I know, in such logical and comfortable way.
Indeed the Doepfer A-180-3 is another good choice.
Other option might be the ACL - Multi II that exists of two parts, a buffered multiple and a passive multiple, 6 HP, so it's comfortable to use while patching.
Good luck in searching for a good buffered multiple and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Good luck with this. I'm a modular newbie (so not a lot of direct advice to give on modular) but a longtime musician. I'll be interested to see where you land with this inquiry and build, as I'm in a somewhat similar position.
I am curious, what are you hoping to get from modular that you can't from software & standalone hardware?
Hearing about your "retro" focus, I would think you could be very well served with some non-modular options such as:
-- Roland software, Roland emulations, Roland hardware (like Jupiter Xm). IMO this stuff sounds great and is a joy to use. If I worked in retro like you do, I would definitely have an "Ultimate" Roland Cloud subscription
-- Sequential's current lineup: Dave Smith is still making beautiful instruments that mix the classic vibe (and presets) with modern capabilities. Any of those analogue boards could give you a real boost in great retro sound
-- less completely retro but very awesome is Native Instruments Komplete + their Komplete controllers. The hands-on integration for these is now very strong, and the NI library is so vast. I love the browsing and sound manipulation that can be done here without a mouse now. IMO this is also a great value, compared to equivalent spend on hardware / modular.
-- the Arturia software suite is also great for retro. The sheer # of retro instruments and presets is huge. The "modular" VSTs in that suite could give you a lot of the retro modular sounds, if that's what you're after.
I assume you know about most if not all of those above already. BUT, hearing your situation and objectives, I thought I would mention these as possible alternatives for you; to me they really stand out as potentially useful for your situation.
Having recently entered the modular domain, I can say: i) it is expensive ii) its very deep in terms of variety of modules, module designs, etc. iii) there's a vast amount of learning to be able to buy or run a decent rig iv) it does beat software and standalone synths for some uses, but not all. I AM enjoying modular learning and sounds a lot, and it also helps me understand and me appreciate my VSTs and hardware drum machines even more!
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-- nickgreenberg
Cheers, Nicholas, thanks for your reply!
I think, like any god fearing young man, I need modular synthesis to keep me off the streets.
Yeah, I have the Arturia bundle and I use it a lot. Also have a bunch of UVI stuff and other odds and ends in terms of plugins. I think they sound great and there’s little if anything that I strictly can not achieve with the tools that I own currently. But I would posit that a lot of what producers invest in is more experiential than functional (from a vintage German microphone in the live room to an expensive single origin coffee in the kitchen).
Also, I do find virtual modular stuff pretty hard to program on (ex Arturia’s 2600 and Moog system plugins, even the ZOIA which it’s taking me a long time to bond with for this very reason). I reckon that if I logged some time on a hardware modular system and that type of programming migrated more into the “second nature” part of my brain then I would be less annoyed/confused by virtual modular stuff.
I also just like having multiple flavors of things if something isn’t sitting quite right in a mix or is feeling obtuse in a session. My Deckard’s Dream can do most of things my Little Phatty can do but the one does not quite make the other obsolete. It’s a luxury to get to amass gear in this way, of course, but that’s part of what someone’s paying me for when they hire me.
So I guess the main thing that I’m after is the tactile creative experience of working on a system like this (not the least of which reasons being that a lot of my favorite records were made on early synthesis systems). And I like more modern stuff too but I don’t really work professionally on any EDM projects which seems like a distinct camp in the modular community. Also I dig the significantly increased probability that I will accidentally make something interesting I wouldn’t have come up with otherwise.
Admittedly it is more than a little indulgent to sink this much money into the idea that I just want to vibe out over some synth modules haha. But here we are. Ideally I would pair this down to something a little bit cheaper, but maybe this is a good future goal and I need to just build it up a little at a time.
For what it’s worth I got on my current modular kick after randomly hearing some demos of the Plaits and thinking it sounded extraordinary and I wasn’t certain I had anything in my arsenal that would do exactly what it does. I kind of always knew I’d go down this road some day but I was waiting for something to push me over the edge.
Good luck with this. I'm a modular newbie (so not a lot of direct advice to give on modular) but a longtime musician. I'll be interested to see where you land with this inquiry and build, as I'm in a somewhat similar position.
I am curious, what are you hoping to get from modular that you can't from software & standalone hardware?
Hearing about your "retro" focus, I would think you could be very well served with some non-modular options such as:
-- Roland software, Roland emulations, Roland hardware (like Jupiter Xm). IMO this stuff sounds great and is a joy to use. If I worked in retro like you do, I would definitely have an "Ultimate" Roland Cloud subscription
-- Sequential's current lineup: Dave Smith is still making beautiful instruments that mix the classic vibe (and presets) with modern capabilities. Any of those analogue boards could give you a real boost in great retro sound
-- less completely retro but very awesome is Native Instruments Komplete + their Komplete controllers. The hands-on integration for these is now very strong, and the NI library is so vast. I love the browsing and sound manipulation that can be done here without a mouse now. IMO this is also a great value, compared to equivalent spend on hardware / modular.
-- the Arturia software suite is also great for retro. The sheer # of retro instruments and presets is huge. The "modular" VSTs in that suite could give you a lot of the retro modular sounds, if that's what you're after.
I assume you know about most if not all of those above already. BUT, hearing your situation and objectives, I thought I would mention these as possible alternatives for you; to me they really stand out as potentially useful for your situation.
Having recently entered the modular domain, I can say: i) it is expensive ii) its very deep in terms of variety of modules, module designs, etc. iii) there's a vast amount of learning to be able to buy or run a decent rig iv) it does beat software and standalone synths for some uses, but not all. I AM enjoying modular learning and sounds a lot, and it also helps me understand and me appreciate my VSTs and hardware drum machines even more!
I went in a similar direction workstation-wise, a year ago, updating my main music PC to a Threadripper 3rd Gen 32-core 64 thread build. The current mobo would host the 64 core Threadripper if needed, but I'm nowhere close to bottoming out the current hardware. Tasks that used to cripple my old old old workstation now barely move the needle on my new workstation. Some software will overload a single core and cause the machine to bog down; I'm not an engineer, but in this instance I would say "the software is slow" or at least not built to leverage the power of a multi-core machine. For example MAAT's TheEQ Orange, which sounds gorgeous, will slow down even my beast machine, which I attribute to mainly to inherent latency in the plugin.
All considered, the musical tasks that used to make me want to blow my brains out screaming at my computer, now these barely register, if at all. That means there's still a lot of "I used to try to do X" I have to get back to, all while learning new capabilities in latest Live and Bitwig versions, not to mention I've now dipped into analog modular!
Oh, how music continues to teach me humility! Out of the vast expanse of what I want to do in music--facing the limits of my current abilities, my capacity to learn, and my time--I get just a taste.
I had kind of given up on the complex control scheme / complex routings in Live and Bitwig; when I tried that seriously ~2 years ago, it was so klunky, I couldn't get it to work smoothly in a way that wasn't a nightmare for me.
-- nickgreenberg
Yeah, Live is a bit of a resource hog. I never have significant issues running it, though...but the machine it resides on is a bit "non-standard". It's an H-P Z620 with dual 8-core Xeons @ 2.6 GHz, 32 GB RAM.
The rationale behind using this sort of platform revolves SOLELY around thruput. Having seen how other platforms with less cores (but more speed) deal with Live 10 and upwards, I opted to get a machine that had as many cores as I could get within a certain budgetary constraint...and I found these refurbed on Newegg and knew that if the parallel processing didn't bog the machine down (which I didn't expect to happen), this would BLOW SMOKE. And sure enough, it does. I can still crash it, but it takes a project with LOADS of tracks, well over 50-60 active plugins, and a ton of automation lanes to get it to choke. VSTs that are extremely processor-intensive can be a problem as well...such as with Arturia's Sound Easel emulation, but these sorts of VSTs will bottom-out pretty much ANY machine unless it's a real screamer.
Upshot is that if you can get buttloads of processor cores, Live purrs like a kitten. And that Z620 is what was referred to as a "virtualization workstation", which is not quite like a regular PC, but is a machine that was optimized for VR emulation...which ALSO requires tons of thruput. The choice was kinda obvious.
Hmm, I do have the full version of Live 11 and Bitwig Studio.
I had kind of given up on the complex control scheme / complex routings in Live and Bitwig; when I tried that seriously ~2 years ago, it was so klunky, I couldn't get it to work smoothly in a way that wasn't a nightmare for me.
But NOW I have a much faster computer and the more recent Live / Bitwig suites may have better utilities / performance on this front. AND you say you are getting interesting / easy results on this front. I will have to go back to the DAWs to try again. Thanks for the pointer re Live + Max!
Go back to your build page, reload it a few times, then go into "view" and select "Screenshot". If the screenshot looks right, then edit the post by removing the page's URL, reposting, then re-editing it with the current page's URL (yes, even if it's the same). Otherwise, the Forum keeps the old screenshot version in place.
-- Lugia
Thanks for your help! I tried that a few times to no avail and ended up just making a copy.
Go back to your build page, reload it a few times, then go into "view" and select "Screenshot". If the screenshot looks right, then edit the post by removing the page's URL, reposting, then re-editing it with the current page's URL (yes, even if it's the same). Otherwise, the Forum keeps the old screenshot version in place.
Live works admirably here, as long as it's the FULL version with Max for Live. That one addition unlocks a lot of the hidden power under Ableton's hood, and since you can define LOTS of possible operations/routings/etc via Max, it's sort of a unique situation. But it's VERY easy to set up all sorts of "sneaky" send/return signal paths with M4L objects. With that, I can set up lots of actions that are basically nonrepeating, yet which follow clear musical patterns as a work plays.
It's a big jump in price for those of us in the US, but you're right. Resale value is good, for sure.
Here's another with upright, a little less skronky.
-- baltergeist
Wow, this is way more musical than most anything I did on the PB and the DK. Really like your tunes. As for my earlier shenanigans with these “esoteric” machines, here’s some of my PB and DK output:
I didn't know Peter B. had moved to Berlin. Just checked the prices, the Plumbutter is going for EUR 1600, pretty steep but CL instruments have a high resale value (I sold mine for 1300 euros). If had more space and funds for music gear I'd definitely buy a Plumbutter and a Double Knot again. I sold both to make room and money for the eurorack project. I have no regrets though a double-Double Knot is on my shopping list. It's more affordable and is the ideal West Coast percussion-synth for me. I've been missing my v1 eversince I had to let it go.
I am inspired by birth, death and the events inbetween.
doepfer - a little bit more expensive but built like a tank - there will be people with ones that are over 20 years old still going strong
mutable instruments links - about 3 times the price but not only do you get 2 buffered mults and a mixer, one of the mults can also be used as a pecision adder and a mixer - very very useful module
or just take a gamble on this one - it's 30quid! do you have anything to check it with?
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Owning a Scales myself and having recently recommended one to another poster on here, I think @JimHowell1970 is probably right that an O&C or a Disting would both be a better choice here.
Looking for some more experienced opinions on my first draft of my future first modular system. A little bit about what I do and what I'm hoping to get out of this system:
-I am a professional producer/engineer/musician and this would mostly be used on clients' music but I still want it to be populated with modules I enjoy. Also, I would probably be the one doing most of the synthesis or helping guide clients through the system so it should reflect my tastes etc.
-I have a few nice standalone synths (Moog LPII, Deckard's Dream MKII, vintage Microwave I, Elektron Analog Rytm MKII) and a lot of virtual synths but this would be my first foray into the world of modular. I'm looking for a mix of stuff that is not possible/easy with my current synths and also just different flavors of the classic sounds already at my disposal.
-Looking for both percussive and melodic patch capabilities but mostly the latter.
-Mostly interested in retro-ey musical applications (early Brian Eno, Pink Floyd, Moroder, Wendy Carlos, early Depeche Mode, Stevie Wonder etc) but would also like to dip my toe in more modern stuff like generative sequences.
-This would really only be for recording projects so easy integration into Pro Tools sessions is a must and live performance-specific stuff is not important to me.
-I have a lot of guitar pedals, plugins, and some rack units for FX so I'm not too concerned about having much in the way of effect modules in the system.
All that being said I'm wondering what redundancies and glaring omissions you might see. At first I was thinking I would build a system around the Mother 32 but I wavered and came out with this instead. But maybe I should reconsider? I'd love to get the cost down a bit (as things stand this isn't unimaginable for me if I think I'll use it a lot, but it's a little steep, though of course I don't need to buy everything all at once). Also, I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron and could maybe build DIY versions of some of the simpler modules.
Feel like I've rambled a lot, sorry. Would love some input on my first draft of my first modular system! Thanks!!!
Okay, "complex control orders" or a hierarchy of controls with, for example, background / midground / foreground cycles plus one or more "lens" or "reader" cycles that selects (promotes) events from the total control hierarchy. In scheme, this makes sense. In practice, I'm sure I'd have a lot of details to work out!
Curiously, this intersects a lot of my favorite ideas from various music / compositional theorists. While I would like to explore this in modular, that will likely take a good chunk of future time and $s.
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A GOOD IN-DAW CONTROL EVQUIVALENTS to this kind of hierarchical / generative CV scheme? That is something I'd like to dig into further immediately. I'VE REALLY looked for a way to implement this before, but the best I could come up with is some nested MIDI chains and routings in Bitwig (Bitwig, unlike Live 10 and prior, will do many to one or one to many MIDI send / receive configuirations). That works so so, but is pretty fussy to implement and leaves much to be desired. I tried Symbolic Composer (SCOM) but found that a miss for my purposes and tastes. The one-to-one (one finger, one keyboard key; one mouse click, one DAW sequencer cell) control relationship in composing is something I'd really like to break in my workflow, moving towards many to one and one to many control schemes (e.g. hierarchical schemes). It does sound like there's a pathway to do this in analog modular BUT I would love also working DAW-based approach if possible!
This is a significant tangent -- maybe enough to start a new thread on. But let's see if some interesting responses flow in here.
BTW the Four Tet New Energy sounds great to me!! Really cool.
Often caustic and chaotic, but capable of sublime beauty in the right hands. There are a few adepts out there who can really wring some magic out of them.
Which brings up a point: now that there's a huge installed base of Eurorack out there, you WILL see bargain prices on used gear...finally! It's not so esoteric anymore, which is a boon if you're trying to build a new system on the cheap or if you're trying to find something discontinued.
Yep, the C-L stuff is pretty unique, mainly due to the different ideas lurking inside them. The best description I can think of would be that what you get from them is sortakinda like they were created by someone using Don Buchla's design sensibilities, but the sound production hardware has more in common with Stanley Lunetta's uniquely raucous circuitry. As such, Peter B.'s (and the Lorre-Mill stuff, which is a continuation of that) instruments are very unique in how they splice those very different sonic paradigms together.
Actually rather common in test gear. I know that Tektronix made TM500-series modules that were little onboard "cases" in which you could shove all of the test leads, probes, etc...then snap on the TM500 rack's cover, and you were ready to go. Hewlett-Packard, also, had some similar "compartment modules" for various modular systems of their design.
Yeah, it's VERY Schillinger! And yes, that gets further into the "complex control orders" methods, where you've got a module that outputs something, but that module is controlled by a couple of others, which in turn are governed by something else, etc.
For a good example of the sort of thing that this can do in analog, I'd suggest a listen to Four Tet's "New Energy". While the melodic parts there are definitely done with MIDI sequencing, by using complex timing alterations and "deep order" control, you can arrive at similar structures in the analog domain. And yeah, it takes some time and exploration to sort out, but the reward far outweighs the effort needed.
The top half is my very first 104hp skiff that I'm building now.
the bottom half will be another 104hp skiff that I want to build next year after I asses my needs with the first skiff.
I'm sure I can do better, I think I need more utilities but I honestly have no clue what I want to get because I have no clue what most utilities do. I need to do more research in that aspect.
Skiff 1 (Top): I went back to basics with this skiff. Mainly cause I keep straying further away from what I want to do with my rack, which was patch sounds that will compliment my music. I know 3 sound sources might be a bit much, but I wanted lots of options while patching traditional synth sounds, and experimental sounds including weird electronic sounding riffs and kick drums. I thought about adding a modulation source but then realized that Pam's NEW Workout could be used as an LFO so I changed my mind on that, plus I thought that adding some modulation sources later would be more effective than now, seeing as how I don't really know what I might be missing just yet. Ill play with it first and then decide...
...Which brings us to skiff 2 (bottom)
I tried to think carefully about what I might want in order to give my system some tasty flavor.
A couple more sound sources and some utilities I guess.
A Varigate 4+ sequencer for flexibility in my melodies, Stages for lots of different modulation, A micro Ornament and Crime, The Basimilus Iteritas Alter (because I don't want to miss out on it), the micro Grids for more percussion sequencing options, a Monsoon which is just a micro Clouds for some effects, a ripples filter (even though I already have a Polaris), the Maths (because I decided to change it to a Quadra in my first skiff to save room), and a vnlcursal 6 channel VCA for fun.
I dunno. I just chose things I wanted just to give myself an idea. It will change of course ;)
regarding vcos - it's something that you have to work out yourself - listen to as many examples as possible of the ones you are interested in
I'd be tempted to buy your favourite pair of the 2 you have already chosen and live with them for a while - you may find you like th freedom too patch or you may find you want somethign that is more pre-patched (or at least organised) for you
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
hhhhhmmmm ok - to me only one of those modules is an utility - the others are modulation sources
It's been a long night into day and i'm still at it I meant to write modulation sources, but I am thinking the SIMS might be better than the 321, even though it takes up a little more HP
I would try using batumi - it's a great module, but it's an lfo and not an envelope generator as the other 2 are so functions >differently - primarily loops not one shots
adsr is more if you want to emulate a keyboard and zadar is a very complex envelope generator, which is a bit wasted if all you use >it for are basic envelopes
My qualm with the batumi is that it has a divey aspect with no screen. I figure if I opt for a divey modulation source, a screen would be nice. The Zadar can be used as an LFO in a pinch, right? I am also not against adding a dedicated LFO module if I do end up going for the Zadar.
Filter8 is definitely very popular - I would also suggest looking at doepfer if you want variety - they are inexpensive and do what >they say they do! - iirc there's a compare all video on youtube - which will at least give you an idea of how different filter >architectures souond even if you don't get one of theirs in the end
Will definitely do this and meditate on my upcoming filter selection. I realize filter choice is highly personal, so thanks for the tip!
take a look at the maths illustrated manual to answer that one - I'm considering a joranalogue compare2 - it will do a lot more >than maths will in terms of logic
Slowly working my way through it. Most of my homework is tied up with the Allen Strange text at the moment! But dude. That PWM patch on the compare2 sounds sick! Currently watching divkid's video on it haha
Hahaha yes, it seems like I got too excited with the crossfaders! I'll try removing some, thanks for pointing that out.
I wasn't totally sold out on the Varigate 4+ and that link certainly helps. I'll give it another thought, but maybe it would be a good idea going with an external sequencer instead.
Regarding the voices, would I be ok with four VCOs or do you think it would work better if I replaced two of them for a complex oscillator? something like the DPO maybe?
Thanks for your feedback, I definitively need to work a bit more on this rack.
