Eh, I don't have any guidance for you there (aside from maybe Plaits if that is the right sound for you). I've already kind of given the best advice I have for you. Maybe some of the other members would like to chime in on specific low-cost modules/options.
Have fun and good luck.
I started with a used 104hp powered Make Noise skiff for about $200 plus tax. If you want something versatile, Mutable Instruments' Plaits is a good place to start looking, and you might be able to find a used one for about $200... and there's your budget.
But what about all of the other stuff to actually make it work? Cables, filters, LFOs, a sequencer, envelopes, effects, blind panels so you don't accidentally touch a cable to a power header and short everything out...
If you really think that getting into modular is the right direction for you, spend your $400 on a decent powered case (TipTop Mantis or small Doepfer for example), and then save up again until you can afford your first module. Then save up again for your next module. Repeat, repeat, repeat. I don't know your financial situation, but it may take a considerable amount of time until you have a useable system. Whatever you do, don't go into a large amount of debt.
Well, it will be important for you to do a considerable amount of research for your individual needs. What is "versatile" to you may not be very useful for me. You will need to plan out exactly how large of a case and power supply you will need in the long run (not just right now). Are you interested in manipulating samples in your rack, or do you just need a good monosynth built to your specs? How many simultaneous voices do you need? Are you just wanting to sample the sounds of your rack into Logic, or do you hope to perform fleshed out compositions?
What exact problem do you see eurorack solving for you that you can't achieve now?
He's a fairly famous DJ/producer/composer. He recently liquidated a massive amount of gear that had been gathering dust in his studio.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkie_XL
Hi Ethan. This is going to be near impossible at your current budget. You can easily blow through $400 on a case and cables. Any modules that you can squeeze into that budget will be severely limited in their usefulness, as you likely won't be able to fit in all of the most basic components of a functioning synthesizer. I would highly recommend saving up AT LEAST a thousand dollars/euros/etc. to get close to something that is a bit more than a single oscillator and filter with onboard VCA. Save up for what you really want and buy those modules one at a time if necessary, and don't just buy something because it's an affordable alternative.
The Behringer Crave is a good inexpensive semi-modular alternative for under $400. It has everything you need to get started making some sound and you can incorporate it later on when you start building a rack.
What equipment do you currently have to use with a eurorack setup?
Can I use this as a level shifter for an Octatrack?
-- mntbighker
I've used it as a level shifter for an MPC, guitar pedals, external synths, and a Mackie 1202VLZ. I've found it very useful.
Intellijel Polaris (On my radar)
-- mog00
Based on what @eexee has mentioned, Polaris probably would be a really good/versatile filter to look into. Good suggestion.
I don’t believe the Doepfer SEM is capable of self oscillation if that is important to you. It’s a very classic sound. Very late-70s/early-80s vibe. Definitely on my shortlist.
Joranalogue, WMD, and Happy Nerding have some isolated output modules. Ladik may make something inexpensive as well, but I haven't checked.
Farkas: Interesting description of the Erica Synths' Polivok filter but I do think I can agree here with you how you described it. For myself I still need to more understand this filter, it seems I can't get the max out of it, or perhaps I put my expectations too high and want to get more out of it than it's possible ;-)
-- GarfieldModular
The Polivoks just fit in perfectly with the sound I was working on this week. My AJH was too "warm" sounding, Ripples was a bit too clean, the Gristleizer was too aggressive, and QPAS was too... well, it was too QPAS. Haha.
The Polivoks fit right in the middle of all of them. I love that weird sort of overdriven resonance right on the edge. I'm sure it won't be the right tool for everything, but I have really enjoyed experimenting with it over the past few days.
And yes, the Doepfer SEM seems to be among the best of the best.
Enjoy your day!
Ha! Well, here's an amazing one that directly relates to this conversation. It's your creativity and brain that matters, not your filters, or utilities, or oscillators. :)
Actually fading volume in and out on the mixer or muting different drum parts and letting the Taiko fill the void.
I like the matrix mixer idea for stretching modulation sources even further. On the other hand, I would probably keep the Taiko as a melodic percussive voice. Mult a trigger to that and fade in/out from your drum voices to the FM sounds. That's how I would use it anyway.
I think Surgeon's sound comes down to Surgeon's brain... which I don't have. Haha. Same with Richie Hawtin. Those guys can make incredible music with incredibly minimal setups. I have to supplement my dull-witted brain with extra knobs and utilities.
Everyone will do this differently. I don't take any of the advice given as gospel, so I try something and if it doesn't work for me, I search for what will help me solve the problem and move on to that. My rack, and MylarMelodies' rack, and Surgeon's rack are wrong for YOU. So, at some point you just have to dive in and try your ideas. Don't expect them to work every time. You may find at some point that a Behringer 303 and 909 is all you really need to make amazing live techno, and modular just gets in the way. Or you may find that you don't need VCAs or LFOs for your approach. Only one way to find out! :)
I've found the MylarMelodies video series about building a live performance rack valuable as a resource in my own journey. I stumbled upon his videos about a year ago and found some solutions to the exact problems I was having in building a similar setup. The key is to keep things moving forward and avoid a stagnant groove. Just a few inexpensive utilities and modulation tools can really help with that. Here's a video about sample and hold that helped me achieve what I was trying to do. His videos on switched multiples and VCAs were helpful too. I shared a longer one on CardiacTasty's post a week or so ago that covered the broader philosophy and design of a live techno rack. Helpful stuff.
Have fun and good luck.
I just got the Erica Polivoks VCF II and can’t believe how great it is. It’s a fairly straightforward filter, but I’ve had so much fun with it already. With filters, the old adage “use your ears” really applies, and the Polivoks sounds perfect to my ears. It sits somewhere between an acidic Roland-ish sound and the MS20. It doesn’t have a crazy feature set or anything (like the QPAS, Dipole, Morgasmatron, or Filter 8), just a great sound and can be found for $200 or less.
The Doepfer SEM and Morgasmatron (or Dual Borg) are still on my shopping list, but I’m pretty happy with what I have for a while.
The Dipole looks outstanding, but I haven't used it yet. I have QPAS and on occasion it completely blows my mind with beautiful sounds. It really is unlimited and perfect for the "pretty" and ambient side of things. I still have not mastered it so I just haphazardly stumble into interesting sounds.
I've been really impressed with everything I have heard from the criminally inexpensive Doepfer SEM filter. That one is next on my list. I know some of the members here like the Filter 8. It seems very useful in a small case due to the range of duties it can fill. The demos I've seen have failed to interest me much though.
Have fun and good luck.
Hi Bertus95. Just a few initial thoughts as I'm looking over your rack.
First, when you say that you want to go in a live performance direction, how do you envision yourself interacting and performing with this rack. There are some expression-type modules available that may encourage a more interactive experience and performance. Joysticks, trigger combining crossfaders, mute modules, SoundMachines LS1, and things like that.
Second, it looks like you have chosen several of the largest modules available in such a small case. Do you really need to dedicate 20hp to a bass drum when you already have Basimilus Iteritas Alter. Would the WMD Crater serve a similar purpose in a smaller footprint? You have chosen Odessa but not the Hel expander. Any particular reason for this? Would the 4ms Ensemble Oscillator work just as well in 8 less hp? Is the Morgasmatron the best choice for your only filter at 20hp? Do you need two FX Aid XLs and the Desmodus?
These are all great modules, don't get me wrong. But you have a very small footprint that you are more than likely going to want to fill with more utilities/logic/envelopes/VCAs/attenuverters/etc.
Again, these are just my initial thoughts if I were going to build a rack for your purpose.
Have fun and good luck!
Man, this sounds great. Your mix on galaktoboureko acid especially sounds outstanding. Keep making the acid and I'll keep taking it. :)
Looks like XAOC Batumi and Studio Electronics 5089 filter at the top right.
Great work @gumbo23. I love that sync bass sound (I’m guessing that is the Basimilus). Keep sharing!
Check out the Low Gain Electronics Short Bus for a good trigger sequence combiner. It's passive, cheap, and fun. You could probably use it to switch between and combine multiple channels of Metron, allowing you to avoid buying Grids. You could have a straight pattern set up on one channel of Metron and a fill pattern on another channel, and then switch back and forth or combine those trigger sequences with the flip of a switch. Switchblade would allow something similar as well.
On a related note, I just checked out a demo for Metropolix. Wow. Awesome.
You already have one of the best trigger sequencers on the market (Metron). I would really recommend keeping that and adding the Metropolix or something similar to it. That would be a very powerful combination.
Wow. This is beautiful. Gives me Yamaha CS80/Blade Runner vibes.
I'm now regretting selling my Chainsaw. Unfortunately, I never got around to using it as creatively as you. You're inspiring me to consider trying it out again.
Keep sharing!
Thank you @GarfieldModular. I know techno isn't your favorite style of music, so I appreciate your time and feedback. :)
I use the term "jazz" very loosely in the sense that this is music fully created in the moment. Haha.
Have a great weekend.
Thanks @wishbonebrewery. I don’t live too far from Detroit so I probably absorbed the whole minimal thing by osmosis.
Thanks for checking it out @troux. I was sort of practicing restraint. My natural tendency is for "more". More drums, more transitions, more distortion, more abstract, more more lo-fi, more experimental, more, more, more... Haha.
Haven't done one of my "android jazz" videos in a while. I was just patching aimlessly this morning and thought I would record something in the vein of some of the recent posts regarding sequencers and live techno setups. This is a fully improvised modular minimal techno jam. No plan, no safety net, no direction home. Nothing groundbreaking, just pressed record to see what would happen. Actually turned out ok. Hope someone might enjoy a little Friday night dance party. Thanks for your time.
Audio only for those who don't want to stare at my twisted visage: https://ciernyvlk.bandcamp.com/track/brief-encounter
I just bought a metropolix though I've not had the chance to use it yet, but it seems to be close to what you're looking for?
-- troux
Yay! @troux is back! :)
What are you using as a master clock now? Some drum machines have cv clock inputs and outputs (RD8 and RD9 for example, and I assume the Elektron stuff too).
I’m a bit more excited about modular drums than Ronin, but I agree that the expense and necessity are probably unnecessary for some. I really enjoy my hybrid setup. I have an MPC but don’t really use a lot of samples that I don’t create myself, so I like the versatility of a decent enough drum machine and modular options. I’m usually happy with standard 808/909 sounds but the BIA and WMD modules are fun. I’ve been building some percussion sounds from scratch too, so everyone will do it differently. The MPC One and RD8 also have trigger outputs to interface with the rack. There are a lot of different ways to do the same so just continue to do your research to find the right option for you.
Hi @CardiacTasty. I've sort of built my rack around the idea of performing improvisational minimal techno mainly using an Arpitecht and Eloquencer switching with an Acid Rain Switchblade (though I have other sequencers and utilities, and record other types of music too). I chose the Eloquencer over the Metron for the exact reason that you are describing here. I've also added a Behringer RD8 808 clone to trigger additional modular drum voices via the three trigger outs, so an external X0X style drum machine is always valuable, but you already have that functionality with the Metron. I've found the Arpitecht to be fun but not precise in getting exactly what I want, so you could probably use two but I think you'll find it similarly clunky to what you are doing now. I would recommend doing a lot of research on sequencers to pick one that does exactly what you need it to do, and use the Arpitecht as a supplement.
As always, yes... get a bigger case. Haha.
Have fun and good luck.
Here's a good video for your consideration:
I’ve had good luck with clocking from Pamela’s New Workout. I have a Moffenzeef Mito trigger sequencer that is a little squirrelly with syncing so I just send a reset gate to it every four bars from either the Eloquencer or PNW. I’ve found workarounds for any issues I’ve come across.
*edit: Just a note regarding Ronin's important consideration of rising/falling clock pulses, Pamela's New Workout allows you to skew and offset gate/trigger signals per channel if you do find a synchronization issue between multiple sequencers. I have not found it necessary to do this, but the capability is there. PNW also serves as my master "start/stop" button. Cool module. It's definitely the one that glued my rack together for the first time early on while I was just getting started.
When I was choosing my main sequencer, I narrowed my choice down to the WMD Metron and the Winter Modular Eloquencer. I ultimately chose the Eloquencer. Very intuitive, as simple or as deep as you might want, and 8 channels of CV and gate. I'm not a menu-diver, and while the Eloquencer has a fairly shallow menu system, it doesn't impede making music in the slightest. In fact, the interface is mostly WYSIWYG the way I use it. Watching demos of the Metron, I felt like I might make a lot of mistakes switching between four different pages for a single rhythm. Add to that the need to buy an expander for just four channels of CV (and another expander for accent), and the Metron just wasn't for me. I'm very happy with my choice.
I think I mentioned in your other recent post about sequencers that I do like to use and switch between multiple sequencers (Voltage Block, Arpitecht, etc.). That may be confusing and not work for some, so it all really comes down to your preference.
If I remember correctly, Butch Vig and Billy Corgan half-jokingly said the Mutron Biphase was their secret weapon when recording Siamese Dream.
Sounds great. Definitely has a Jarre vibe. Keep sharing the good stuff @wishbonebrewery.
I use that Patching Panda Punch in every patch nowadays. Such a valuable module.
...which is one of the things that makes me chuckle when I see people blathering on about the virtues of "DAWless" work; c'mon gang, I was doing that sort of thing as far back as 1979, and you're just NOW telling me how cool it is? Ha!
-- Lugia
Eh... I don't know that anyone is trying to convince anyone else that a DAWless workflow is "cool," just that people are rediscovering that idea and technology is making it possible without investing in a couple of Studer 24 tracks. Most hobbyist and project studio musicians younger than you and I had the limited choice between a computer and a Tascam cassette multitrack not all that long ago. Maybe a Roland MV8000 digital recorder if you were lucky. OF COURSE younger musicians adopted the DAW with unlimited tracks, virtual instruments, and plug-ins. Who wouldn't? More is better, right?!?
For some musicians, more is better. For others, it's not. There are some great options out there now for guys like me who hated the virtual environment and wanted a happy medium between Pro Tools/Logic/Cubase/Ableton/Reason/etc. and a Portastudio. I just picked up an MPC One, which you could argue is not THAT much different than a traditional DAW, but it kinda is. It's a much more immediate workflow. With Akai's new class compliant audio interface I/O support, I'll probably never turn my computer on for recording again. The addition of one of the new Tascam Model 12 mixers would make a powerful "DAWless" combo. That works for me, but I wouldn't say it's "cool".
And all of this "DAWless" power is now comparably affordable and doesn't take up much more space than a decently spec'd desktop computer. Again, not "cool" just different.
^Disagree with this (no disrespect). *edit: Disagree with Shadowsaun's recommendation.
Some electronic musicians want to get as far away as possible from the computer, get a more interactive and hands-on experience with electronic music. Modular provides that, VCV Rack does not.
I can definitely understand the argument that there are other hardware options for achieving this, whether vintage, Behringer, MPC, etc., but who cares? This instrument is fun and a completely different workflow than any other instrument. Period. I encourage anyone with any interest to try it out. There's a steep learning curve, it's expensive, and it's currently in fashion so lots of folks will disappear as soon as they enter the world. Just like every kid who wanted to be Eddie Van Halen and ultimately sold the guitar they got for Christmas. Some people will stick with it and others won't regardless of VCV Rack or the real-world version.
For any new person who has the Euro itch, have fun with it while your interest is high. If it's not for you, sell and move on.
Somehow I knew that you would have the A-103. :) Don't worry about going to the trouble of writing up a report. It's inexpensive enough that I may just pick one up to experiment with.
Good luck with your new setup. I'm sure it will be a lot of fun once you get everything settled.
Hi Nick. I can definitely recommend multiple sequencers. I have several different CV and gate sequencers.
I especially like to use the Acid Rain Switchblade to switch back and forth between a programmed melodic pitch sequence on the Winter Modular Eloquencer and the WMD Arpitecht while improvising live techno stuff. I also use a Low Gain Short Bus to combine gate patterns from multiple gate sequencers to "crossfade" between different drum patterns or add trigger bursts for rolls and that kind of thing. There are all sorts of cool tricks that I'm figuring out by combining and switching sequences.
Have fun and good luck.
Excellent. Thanks for sharing Garfield.
I don't suppose you are working on a report for the Doepfer A-103 filter (the 303 clone)? Was just thinking about picking one up.
Have a great weekend.
Then today was a good day, every day should be a learning day in my opinion.
-- toodee
I work in the academic world, so I agree wholeheartedly.
Swear to god I was just wondering the same thing last night. Was watching a video and every time the guy said "Diggy-takt" I wanted to scream. Haha
I really enjoy classic style filters like the AJH for a Moog style which you already have covered, the Mutable Instruments Ripples for a Roland style, and I've had my eye on the G-Storm Electro Oberheim clone. With that said, I have a few "character" filters too, and the Make Noise QPAS is my favorite. You could probably get into similar territory as the QPAS with the Belgrad or Bastl's Ikarie.
I've also been considering the 100 Grit, but it won't be right for every circumstance. I have the FSS Gristleizer filter which sounds great in a gnarly and disgusting way, but definitely doesn't fit into everything I do.
Will you mainly need low pass or will you need bandpass/high pass options as well?
Haha. I hate computer recording too. Burnt myself out on that around 2005. I think that’s why I focus on one-take experiments now. Believe it or not, I just use GarageBand and don’t use any VSTs or external plug-ins, just the compressor and eq included. I don’t even have the GarageBand sound library installed. I really just use it as a glorified tape recorder. I’m using some automation in the thing I’m working on now, but that’s about as far as I care to go.
BTW, how did you get to that delicious Lo-Fi sound with the track on SoundCloud ?
-- toodee
I ran the Prophet Rev 2 through the overdrive (just barely noticeable) on the Data Bender into one input on the DLD, and ran the output of the DLD's first channel into the QPAS filter with just a small bit of movement into the second input of the DLD. I recorded the track pretty quiet and then slammed the hell out of the compressor in my DAW and EQ'ed just a tiny bit. I think that was all I did on that one. I get kind of a Boards of Canada-style "dustiness" that I like when I record quiet and compress heavily. I always like just a bit of noise mixed into the pads on the Prophet too.
I do have an Orange Kongpressor pedal that I run some stuff through, but I don't think I used it on that track.
Thanks again for checking it out. It's nice to have like-minded folks to bounce stuff off of!
Thanks systasis. I've been working on a more structured multi-track project, but keep finding the more improvisational and meandering music of chance is what I enjoy most. It's rarely interesting for the listener as it's more of a self-absorbed Dadaist art project. Haha. I figure I might as well put it out there in the world anyway. Thanks for listening!
