Tasty.

I'm looking at the rack. The Erica DSP and the Disting are both capable of producing reverbs, delays, and can be addressed via CV for modulation. I'd try using those. That Mimetic Digitalis would be great for varying parameters of either or both. Make Noise offers a slew limiter much like the two in Maths... but in a much smaller package. I'm not telling you to get one. But a slew limiter can give you a much more musical transition between CV signals that suddenly change in voltage. For the most part, slew limiters come in two varieties: one that slews rising and falling slopes the same (basic), one that slews rising and falling slopes independently (like Make Noise Maths or Befaco Rampage). The Mimetic responds to gates/triggers to advance to the next step. So you could supply those with the Squarp in any rhythm you find useful.

I'm still on the fence about the Wavetable synth. I dug a little deeper. It seems that it can only work with internal wavetables, though Erica does have a ROM expander for them. Without hearing all of the wavetables... I can't really pass much judgment on it... but it seems to be redundant if you have a Plaits module. It's not a wavetable synth, but you can get variations on a sound in the same manner (different architectures but you can index variation(s) of a sound in the same manner).

The Noise Engineering BIA is nice. I own one as well. The Noise Engineering stuff can be a little harsh sounding sometimes. But all of those strange harmonics might be nice if you're drowning the original signal in reverb as drone fodder.

I think the bottom line is that you might want to try a little harder to make something useful with the Erica before giving up on it. Not because I think it's a great module or not a great module, but it might be an opportunity to flex/grow your knowledge even if you ultimately dump it.

Thanks Ronin for your answer !

To help the discussion, here's my current rack:

I started asking myself those question after thinking of getting a distortion module actually (because that's the only effect I really know about, but wavefolders and comb filters sound like something I would have to investigate further, thanks for the suggestion ! ). I was thinking about introducing one of the small distortions from Noise Engineering between the Black Wavetable and the reverb, and that (plus playing with the BIA in my rack) made me consider the fact that instead of 12HP for the VCO + 4HP for the distortion, I could maybe get a harsher sounding VCO from the Noise Engineering offering for just 10HP, if they're up to the task.
But again, I'm in no rush to switch out anything, for now I'm just thinking about it and considering some options while continuing to explore what I can do with what I have ;)

I definitely should also consider the possibility that, as suggested on MuffWiggler, I might need to make space for some sort of CV controllable mixer that would allow the type of patch you suggest with different signal paths. Signal paths are actually something I struggle with, even when looking at other people's racks, I am convinced that with Eurorack I can really build a signal path I could adapt to my needs on the fly, I just have a hard time figuring it out after years of using traditional synths.

Of course, I realize the 2hp Verb is limited but I had to make choices due to space and while something like the Erbe-Verb would without a doubt improve over what I have, I don't think I could make space for it. I also have to admit that working with reverbs was always something I also struggled to use, for example sequencing the reverb on my Octatrack is something I avoid doing lately as I always find the results worse than having it almost without any movement. Nevertheless, you're again right about suggesting to experiment with a filter or effects after the reverb as well. My 3 Sisters filter could definitely do the job, sounds like another thing I should try !

Hey,
to add modules to "My Modules" click on the suitcase icon of the module in the module finder.
To remove modules click again on the suitcase icon.

To add all modules of a rack to "My Modules" go to the rack view page.
Top left subnavigation you find an entry Edit->Add all to My Modules.

I looked at your rack above as well as your update (by clicking the link of the picture). You've put in some more work.

The first thing that draws my attention is the QPAS filter. It's a niche stereo filter. There's noting wrong with the QPAS, put apart from the "Outs," there's nothing else in your rack that really supports a stereo signal. I'd want something like a Joranalogue Filter 8 or an Intellijel Morgasmatron if I was putting together a first rack and add the QPAS later when my system could support it.

You talk of "space/ocean" styles of sounds. That makes me think of reverbs with long decay times and delays with a lot of feedback. I don't see any modules of those types in the rack. Eurorack effects that are designed to be modulated are awesome. There are other options with outboard gear like pedals... it's going to depend on your needs.

Also missing are any dedicated utility modules. The Maths can do some of that work as far as attenuating and attenuverting signals. But if its doing that duty, you might not be able to use it for something else.

Some other bits you may want to add would be some sort of noise source (pink and white). Noise can add a bit of character to a sound, especially when mixed and filtered with that sound. Sample & Hold as well as a logic module will give you some additional possibilities... but only you can say if that would fit your needs.

The Zadar is good. But it might not be bad to have a couple of traditional ADSRs as well. I'd go with an ADSR with lots of CV inputs like a TipTop Z4000 and have one or two of them in the rack.

For your set-up, I'd have one mixer that's capable of audio and CV mixing (the Mixup should do this) but I'd also have a main mixer with even more channels. I have a Blue Lantern Stereo Sir-Mix-A-Lot. it has six inputs plus two stereo returns. It was in the $200-$300 price range. That might be the ticket since you'll probably be adding more modules and possibly effects. It would also be great pairing it with the QPAS.

-- Ronin1973

Thanks so much for the input really really appreciate it. I’m gonna do a lot more homework and I’ll post an update soon thanks!

Beefy VCOs with a twist, hm? OK...try some of these on for size in your build:

Instruo Cs-L, tona, troika
Dove WTF Oscillator
Make Noise STO (yep! good choice), DPO
Pharmasonic Digisound VCDO (I have the original...quite neat...you can step thru the fixed wavetables)
Pittsburgh Lifeforms Primary VCO, Lifeforms Double Helix Oscillator
Erica Black Wavetable VCO
Studio Electronics QUADNIC, GRAINY CLAMPIT
VOID Gravitational Waves (probably the cheapest complex VCO)
Mannequins MANGROVE
Synthesis Technologies E340 Cloud Generator, E350 Morphing Terrarium, E352 Cloud Terrarium
Moseley Cosmopolitan
Intellijel Rubicon II, Shapeshifter
WMD Phase Displacement Oscillator mkII
Harvestman Hertz Donut mkIII, Piston Honda mkIII
Sputnik Dual Oscillator
4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator
Rossum Trident
Hexinverter Mindphaser
1010 Music Waverazor

Trying to stay under $600 here. But this is a good cross-section of some of the more capable and interesting VCOs out there. You'll notice that some of these are actually not single VCOs, also...there are several dual oscillators (some in Buchla-like "complex" arrangements), a couple of triples, and the six oscillator 4ms module. Another not expensive thing you might add alongside one of these and your existing VCOs would be a Doepfer A-196 PLL module, which is a strange little thing (VCO, filter, phase-lock loop) that can do glitchy, sync-like behavior while tracking the audio of another VCO. See what works!
-- Lugia

Bird kids ‘Bateleur’ with VCA expander also worth a shout if HP is t an issue. ☄️

Hey guys,

Is there a way of clearing my ‘owned modules’, and adding everything from my racks as owned?

I’ve been chopping and changing my gear over the last few months, and can’t bear the though of manually adding and removing kit. TIA!

i litterally have 20 pounds why am i here
-- DKraftman

Because you have Eurolust. Have you tried VCV Rack yet? It's a Eurorack simulation and it's free. You can keep your 20 quid in your pocket and pick up some knowledge while that 20 is growing to a couple thousand. When you have the funds, you'll spend them wiser and get more out of your investment.

On the less expensive end... an inexpensive rack and a synth-voice module is a good entry point. You can even go with something like a Behringer Neutron, a Moog Mother 32, as stand-alone synths that can be patched into a Eurorack system. They are great synths to start with and will stay relevant no matter how much your system grows.

I looked at your rack above as well as your update (by clicking the link of the picture). You've put in some more work.

The first thing that draws my attention is the QPAS filter. It's a niche stereo filter. There's noting wrong with the QPAS, put apart from the "Outs," there's nothing else in your rack that really supports a stereo signal. I'd want something like a Joranalogue Filter 8 or an Intellijel Morgasmatron if I was putting together a first rack and add the QPAS later when my system could support it.

You talk of "space/ocean" styles of sounds. That makes me think of reverbs with long decay times and delays with a lot of feedback. I don't see any modules of those types in the rack. Eurorack effects that are designed to be modulated are awesome. There are other options with outboard gear like pedals... it's going to depend on your needs.

Also missing are any dedicated utility modules. The Maths can do some of that work as far as attenuating and attenuverting signals. But if its doing that duty, you might not be able to use it for something else.

Some other bits you may want to add would be some sort of noise source (pink and white). Noise can add a bit of character to a sound, especially when mixed and filtered with that sound. Sample & Hold as well as a logic module will give you some additional possibilities... but only you can say if that would fit your needs.

The Zadar is good. But it might not be bad to have a couple of traditional ADSRs as well. I'd go with an ADSR with lots of CV inputs like a TipTop Z4000 and have one or two of them in the rack.

For your set-up, I'd have one mixer that's capable of audio and CV mixing (the Mixup should do this) but I'd also have a main mixer with even more channels. I have a Blue Lantern Stereo Sir-Mix-A-Lot. it has six inputs plus two stereo returns. It was in the $200-$300 price range. That might be the ticket since you'll probably be adding more modules and possibly effects. It would also be great pairing it with the QPAS.

Well... it's hard to say if you need to replace the Wavetable VCO. As a source, it doesn't have a lot of modulation inputs. Are you running the VCO through... filters, wavefolders, distortion, comb filters, etc.? Each module you place between the VCO and the reverb is an opportunity to alter your sound as well as modulate that alteration.

When you wash something in reverb, the sound basically smears. Subtle differences in timbre tend to wash away. So you might want to possibly try the same VCO and run it through two completely different signal paths (or more!) then mix between them using some very slow modulation... just an example.

Before you toss the Wavetable VCO and spend more money, maybe a picture of your current set-up would be helpful. Oh, and the 2HP reverb is pretty limited (I own one). It's good to have. But I'd want something with more parameters that can be modulated. Oh.. and have you tried placing a filter after the reverb. Even a simple band-reject filter can add some motion to your ambient sound.

Wow. I appreciate hearing others' experiences here, but the sycophancy and lack of self-awareness in Ronin's last post just drives home what toxic tendencies this forum unfortunately has. (Talk of "triggering" is sort of a giveaway.) Style and substance are of course not two unrelated things, and the irony of not appreciating either here is a bit much. Anyway, thanks, Hazel, for the lovely video links. And thanks for sticking your head above the parapet with your well-written, and, yes, substantial contributions to this thread. Hope to hear more from you on another forum.
-- tyson

I'm completely aware of myself. I just find it infantile to sit and be critical of someone who is HELPING you. If you want someone to stroke your hair and tell you what a good boy you are... that's not happening. You get curt and frank advice. When you toss a bunch of modules in a rack and ask for feedback. That's what you get. If you'd like to show me the errors in my suggestions. If you disagree with my suggestions... fine too. I also learn a lot from other peoples' advice.

What I won't do is baby you in your excitement to put something in the box without knowing what knowing what you need to make the box work. Sorry if I'm not playing the social-media, social-correctness game that is so important to you. But it seems YOU and quite a few others have decided to plant your flag on some sort of social etiquette rant rather than learning how to use a control voltage synthesizer. Do you have any other complaints or social snowflake boo-hoos or are we done?

We now have a simple user rating system! See first post.

User Rating

We have a simple user rating system to help with trustworthiness of user transactions on the marketplace.
On every users profile page you can vote up or down your experience with a user.
You just vote the user in general, not single transactions. It does not matter if you are the seller or buyer.
The accumulated votes will be displayed on offers and in the user profile.

Send Limits in the Messenger

A spammer tried to send thousands of automated messages to users and partly succeeded (sorry!).
We now have a rate limit to prevent that in the future. Standard users can only send three messages per hour. Unicorns can send unlimited messages.

Recently made a good deal with @suhovmodular, @proturboplus and @Zucker.

EDITED Dec 4th 2019, 07:47

Wow. I appreciate hearing others' experiences here, but the sycophancy and lack of self-awareness in Ronin's last post just drives home what toxic tendencies this forum unfortunately has. (Talk of "triggering" is sort of a giveaway.) Style and substance are of course not two unrelated things, and the irony of not appreciating either here is a bit much. Anyway, thanks, Hazel, for the lovely video links. And thanks for sticking your head above the parapet with your well-written, and, yes, substantial contributions to this thread. Hope to hear more from you on another forum.

Sorry for the issues. Sadly the messenger had no spam protection so Werytuifdsa was able to send her offer to ca 2000 users and killed the SMTP doing that
We now have a limit for standard users: they cannot send more than 3 messages per hour.
Limits, fences, borders everywhere, it's not what I had on my mind ...

Well, normally a PM to one of the mods tends to work...it's important info, actually, since MG has had issues with spammers that've required site filter adjustments.

However...have you considered the "abuse potential" here? Try messaging them back with loads of technical gibberish, such as inquiries about the CV interfacing for the webcam so that you can sonify your websex and possibly make some money off of their own scam. Or ask them if their websex "providers" respond to all MIDI sysex messages, including poly-aftertouch, because...quality websex should have poly-aftertouch. Etc etc etc...

Or just have the mods block 'em.

Hi,
I've received a message about webcam sex BS from a user "Werytuifdsa" with whom I haven't spoken before. It came out of the blue and looks like spam. Is there a thread or a process for reporting these spammy users?
cheers

Hi everyone !

I'll try to contribute to this discussion in the most constructive way I can.
To understand my perspective, I also have been on the receiving end of advice about a rack project being a total noob in Eurorack, not too long ago. I suppose the rack I submitted was showing enough research because I received very constructive comments, I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and had a few laughs. Maybe creating something along the lines of "How to build your first rack" and "how to constructively ask for advice to help others help you" could help everyone get the same experience.

On one hand, it's true that some comments made on newcomers' racks may be perceived as harsh, the same points could have been made while being less "dismissive" of the proposed idea, for example by pointing to learning resources about the misunderstood concepts that lead to a "less functional" rack or asking more information about the poster's goal with the rack and their knowledge about it. I personally don't have any issues with the tone but I also can totally see some sensitive people being discouraged by it sometimes, since there's a good chance MG will be (like it was for me) their first contact with the Eurorack community, as it gets recommended in a lot of YT videos for beginners. Being told your rack is unusable as a first comment could be discouraging for some people, even if that's very close to the truth. That being said, what should you tell someone who planned a rack based on faceplate color (for the record, I did that too at first) ? Sure it's fine if people want to do it (more module sales, more money for development of new modules, amarite ?), but we're building devices to make sound primarily or at least that is what most people do with Eurorack, so if someone is building a wall of black faceplates instead, I'd say "decorative" is a fitting adjective for the rack (even if "usable" and "fun" could be just as fitting in some situations), that's even the announced goal in a way.

On the other hand, those comments (or at the least the substance) were very important for me as they made me challenge a lot of my decisions for module selection or even where I was going with Eurorack in general. I still made a couple of mistakes but it would have been way more costly without the help of some people here, Lugia and Ronin included (thanks guys, really). I for one would have hated seeing the limits of my rack after only a few patches, I am SO GLAD that didn't happen and I probably owe it a lot to the advice that was provided here. Sure, in a way I agree with Hazel's point about being able to use one of those "less functional" racks. I would actually go further and say that starting with a very limited setup and picking your modules based on the limitations YOU encounter is a great strategy for learning. That being said, I strongly believe that while those racks may be fun to play with at least for a while, telling a future buyer of Eurorack about the limits of such a rack is an absolute must so they can make an informed buying decision. MG might be their first and only stop before the buying act, so it's important to make sure people understand what they would get for their hard earned money. They might not even have too much cash to spend on mistakes, even if those mistakes can teach you things as well. It's totally fine to build a rack that people would call unusable, a one-trick-pony or the modular equivalent of a Pringles can with a slinky I guess, as long as you understand well that it is what you are doing.

I suppose the most important for me is to get the information I need regardless of the tone, so I'm just grateful for whatever knowledge I can grab

Thanks, Lugia, for chiming in. I’m going to try to make a few points and then I’ll be taking a break from this. (I don’t mean for that to sound as temperamental as it may.)
blah
blah
b;aj
For any readers that might be interested, I came across this interview with Ann Annie and found it insightful and inspiring. I also found that it kind of contradicted Lugia and Ronin’s points. Also! I learned that Ann Annie’s first step into eurorack was with a Mother 32, and a 42HP rack with only one module. Kind of ironic considering the OP of this thread... You see: eurorack can all start with a very simple, restrictive setup. There’s a good chance you’ll have an excellent time with it, and as you begin to learn more, you’ll start realizing the next best steps you should take towards creating your own personal, ideal rack.

-- Hazel

You seem like a passive-aggressive troll that has nothing of any substance to seriously contribute... but hey... that's just my opinion. You seem pretty much all about criticizing others. I agree with Lugia... show me some substance.

EDITED Nov 25th 2019, 17:07

So many cables that I didn't get them all down as he was patching it. He then connected it to the MakeNoise eurorack for even more rad beats.

EDITED Nov 25th 2019, 16:36

Good day everyone ! :)

I am looking for VCO recommendations.
I thought for a moment to hijack the similar thread from GarfieldModular but for the sake of clarity, I'm opting for a new one.

The module I'm thinking of replacing is the Erica Synth Black Wavetable VCO. My use for it is quite simple: I feed CV modulation to the Wave CV in and send the OUT to a big reverb, the 2hp Verb with max Time and almost 100% wet (sometimes through a filter first but more often than not it's unnecessary), bam, I have a cool drone. So far so good.

What grinds my gears is the limited modulation destinations I have on this thing, and the apparent uniformity I get as a result. Even letting more dry signal through, most of my drones sound very similar and a bit too "behaved" for my taste. In other words, I think the Black Wavetable VCO is not crazy enough for me, and I need harsher sounding stuff, especially if it's drenched in reverb afterwards, I found that some modulation applied to bitcrush on the Black Wavetable VCO can bring some life to my patches, I just don't like too much how the bitcrush sounds. I don't use the internal VCA at all and the FM is just ok, nothing to write home about IMO. YMMV of course, it's just my personal taste.

The only limitation I have for now is space, the module has to be in the 8HP->24HP range, preferably 20HP maximum. I have done some research of course, and came up with the following challengers:

- Industrial Music Electronics Piston Honda Mk III. Basically another Wavetable VCO but I feel I would have a wider sound palette and better modulation destinations for sonic variety/evlution on it. 
- Industrial Music Electronics Hertz Donut Mk III. I love FM, and this VCO seems capable of outputting some pretty weird stuff, not sure how relevant it is for the use case I have defined though.
- Noise Engineering Ataraxic Iteritas. Sounds harsh enough, wondering about variety of sound on this one but the width is ideal.
- VOID Modular Gravitational Waves. Not enough demos online, but it came recommended by Lugia in Garfield's thread and a complex VCO sounds like something that could be useful for what I have in mind.

What are your opinions on the above ? Does anybody have experience with those ? Or maybe other modules I've missed and should really look into ? I often have no possibility to test the modules in person so bonus points for demos.
Other suggestions I'm interested in include those telling me to keep the Black Wavetable VCO and use it differently of course, I am in no rush to switch the module out ;)

Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge !!
Cheers,
D.

Hey, there's a troublesome seller - @DeepSynth
I transferred him money for 4ms STS on Nov. 5, and few days later he stopped answering my messages.
He had on sale several modules, and still seems to have, although the list is getting shorter as if he is actually selling them. It looks legit. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/users/view/147749.
The paypal account I sent the money to is ***@gmail.com
Tried to contact him, no success.
Be careful with this guy. It seems I got ripped off :/

[ edit Nov 29: DeepSynth transferred the money back and sent the apology. ]

EDITED Sep 27th 2022, 15:12

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsdkBRIREHjWi7cEukits6yOz2scDA?e=ZDAvXP for further patch visualization ("Large Patch Trigger and Mixer Routing Diagram")

Well, if you think you can do better, Hazel, then jump right on in. If you don't like how some of us do this, then you're perfectly welcome to give it a shot yourself.

Seriously. You're complaining a lot about style here...why not show us some substance?

Thank you for all the replies.

I have currently downloaded VCV Rack and I am going through Youtube tutorials.
Great recommendation Ronin1973!

Yes, I have already purchased a 4u 104hp case Garfield. However, it was the last case in the store as that Intellijel 4u case is now discontinued and I got a great deal on it. As soon as I feel myself outgrowing it, I will try to find a second hand 4u case and lock them together or just sell it it and grab the 7u, which is more convenient with the lid, handle and built in jacks.

Elodin - The Ornaments and Crime as recommended by Ronin1973 with "Hemispheres" and maybe a Batumi sound like they would make great additions.
First things first though, I will start going through the tutorials and VCV Rack. Great help.

I am also going through Chris Meyers "Learning Modular Synthesis" from Lynda.com and it is very helpful.
Fortunately it is free through my local library here in Canada.

Ok, great advice all around.

Happy modulating!

Groc

I plan to build it up from scratch until next year's summer... Wish me luck!

EDITED Nov 24th 2019, 16:03

i litterally have 20 pounds why am i here

Hey guys been lurking for awhile and I’m brand new to modular. Finally decided to just post my initial idea for my first rack because I basically have been over thinking every little thing and just need some opinions or suggestions. I’m looking to eventual make a dark ambient kind of space/ocean vibe rack if that makes sense. I basically picked these first modules as basics and to learn modular better. If there is basics I am missing please give me some suggestions. I plan on adding a sequencer, modulation and effects along with a sampler is the plan. Thanks guys!

EDITED Nov 25th 2019, 03:28

So Im planning my first rack and wanted some feedback on the capability for the modules to work together, my inspiration was serge systems.

My main aim is to use it as a one voice cv lab of sorts for generative patching,

Cheers :)

EDITED Nov 23rd 2019, 19:00

Thanks, Lugia, for chiming in. I’m going to try to make a few points and then I’ll be taking a break from this. (I don’t mean for that to sound as temperamental as it may.)

You wrote: “...nor would any modular synth beginner be happy with one of these systems that only does a few things, albeit amazingly well.” I don’t agree with this at all and think it’s completely plausible that many beginners would be thrilled with a rack like the above – even with something quite a lot smaller and more restrictive. And this might relate to my next point, which is that another significant problem I’ve found on this forum is a tendency to IMPOSE one’s own values/interests onto others. Example: the very first response to a rack that was posted several days ago (made by you) was…
“Well, first off...it's really...ah...BLACK. But that's not good. Invariably, if you're creating a Eurorack along a certain look, then all you'll wind up with is a decorative prop...”

You know what I think is totally okay? Wanting to design an all-black rack. I also think it’s alright not to care at all about how your rack looks. What’s not okay are statements like yours, which not only neglect to take into account what might be important to the OP, but also actually insult them for caring about X.

This is getting into the details of Ronin’s last post and gesturing more towards a tangent, but the comment “one-trick-pony” and the implication that Ann Annie has more or less tapped all of the creative potential of that rack with a single 4 and half minute track seems ridiculous. And given your points in this thread emphasizing how much can be done with so little (steel drums with a little reverb, slinky, Pringles can) it seems ironic.

Also: perhaps I’m wrong, but based on the comments I’ve encountered on this forum I highly doubt if someone had posted a rack similar to the above, they would have received a response like Ronin’s, telling them that the rack worked but lacked versatility. I think it’s much more likely the response would have been along the lines of what I wrote...

“Some of us might be a bit rough around the edges about this, true...but when you consider that we're trying to help bedazzled kids in a candy store of epic proportions avoid the awful feeling of realizing they've spent several grand on a modular rig that only does a handful of things correctly, well, sometimes a "reality brick" thru the "fascination window" is an expedient way to get those people to realize...”

Besides the unnecessary condescension here, I fear that more than anything, Lugia, your “reality brick” is an effective tool to help people think more like you, and value the same things as you.

For any readers that might be interested, I came across this interview with Ann Annie and found it insightful and inspiring. I also found that it kind of contradicted Lugia and Ronin’s points. Also! I learned that Ann Annie’s first step into eurorack was with a Mother 32, and a 42HP rack with only one module. Kind of ironic considering the OP of this thread... You see: eurorack can all start with a very simple, restrictive setup. There’s a good chance you’ll have an excellent time with it, and as you begin to learn more, you’ll start realizing the next best steps you should take towards creating your own personal, ideal rack.

EDITED Nov 23rd 2019, 03:32

I'd much rather get someone triggered and thinking instead of coddling them in platitudes, lies about their build, etc and then letting them discover on their own that they've blown several grand on The Machine That Goes "Ping!". The latter isn't a responsible stance at all.

-- Lugia

That's what I named my rig when I started out... because I appreciated the irony.

While I can see how this could conceivably be mounted in a Eurorack case, the rest of it doesn't seem to fit the criteria of being a proper "module". You only have outs for the VCOs, and an input for the VCF/VCA. There are NO patchpoints for any of the CVs/gate/trigs involved unless someone's coming up with a breakout module. And the audio outs aren't synth-level, but line or headphone.

Doesn't exactly seem like it belongs here...

Thanks for the post. Ann Annie is pretty famous in modular. The rack you're looking at works. But I seriously doubt that this rack is all of Ann Annie's modules. This rack was probably specifically built for this piece by someone with some serious knowledge and talent. If you want to reproduce this song with those sounds... perfect. But we're discussing what usually turns out to be someone's full kit that has to be more than a one-trick-pony.
-- Ronin1973

Exactly. While I certainly detect the sound of some axe-grinding here, the poster of that bad noise doesn't seem to be taking that last part into account.

The vast majority of beginners putting racks up on the MG Forum might be trying to create rigs for what they think is a specific purpose, but much of that "purpose" comes from a misreading of seeing others using purpose-built systems (like Ann Annie's here) to create specific works that that rig was built for. And I don't think anyone on here would realistically believe that it's a good idea to optimize a rig for a beginner that's purpose-built for a very narrow range of work, nor would any modular synth beginner be happy with one of these systems that only does a few things, albeit amazingly well.

I'm very much reminded of the TB-303 here. Yes, it's this much-worshipped synth. Originals still go for a couple of grand. But the cold, hard reality of the 303 is that it really only makes about 6-7 different noises really well, barring modifications. So if someone were to come up to me, or Ronin, et al with one of these little plastic boxes and ask if they could get a good "Blade Runner" Vangelis sound out of it...well, they probably need some "splainin", not merely about the difference between a CS-80 and a TB-303, but about what criteria is needed for a proper synth that can handle A LOT of different possibilities. Some of us might be a bit rough around the edges about this, true...but when you consider that we're trying to help bedazzled kids in a candy store of epic proportions avoid the awful feeling of realizing they've spent several grand on a modular rig that only does a handful of things correctly, well, sometimes a "reality brick" thru the "fascination window" is an expedient way to get those people to realize that what they're planning might not only be a money pit, but a potential experience so dissatisfying that they're apt to bail on music (especially if they're really just starting out). It might seem less "triggery" to nice up what we're trying to say, but I'd much rather get someone triggered and thinking instead of coddling them in platitudes, lies about their build, etc and then letting them discover on their own that they've blown several grand on The Machine That Goes "Ping!". The latter isn't a responsible stance at all.

Thanks, the Temps Utile certainly ticks a few boxes. I have so far been staying away from menu-driven things, though I do realise I'm thinking of the Disting!!
I'm getting along fine with my Pittsburgh MicroSequence, with the direction on Random with possibility of a rest for gates and clock, then I'm using the pitch as modulation mostly.

*edit, Just grabbed a 2hp Div cheap on ebay so that might be my clock multiplying needs filled for the moment.

EDITED Nov 24th 2019, 13:05

+1 for bigger rack.

+1 for O_c (I suggest using alt firmware "Hemispheres").

This next bit may seem contradictory with my + for O_c, but I recommend you get a simple oscillator. Plaits is great, as was its predecessor Braids, but they are not the most intuitive modules. When you are learning modular, it is very nice to have easy access to raw wave forms (preferably simultaneously). Consider Befaco Even VCO.

Finally, this rack would benefit from a simple modulation source (Sin Phi Miasma / Rampage / Maths / Batumi).

Thanks tyson… the last thing I want for active members of this forum to feel is like they’re being ganged up on, but it’s also nice to know I’m not alone here.

I managed to track down the video I mentioned in my last post. Whether or not this music is one’s taste is of course not the point. It has 33k views and over a thousand likes and the first two comments are: “this wins the grammy for best generative synth track” (Lugia’s thread titled “Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work” might be worth bringing up). And then: “This just leaves me breathless everytime I listen to it. It's almost painfully beautiful..”
Scroll further down and someone posts: “Amazing! How is it possible to obtain more information on a setup like this? I am no musician but I would love to have something like this at home and play around with it. I guess it will be a diccicult task to master...”

Here’s an answer/plausible scenario. Do some research and come across a site called modular grid with the unique feature of being able to create a virtual rack which you can submit for feedback. Post a similar setup to this video (or even an identical one). Receive criticism along the lines of this:

1. Lots of attractive modules but totally lacking in utility modules. Will make a great decoration or prop but good luck making music with it.

2. TWO Rings + an Elements and Plonk! Call the redundancy department. And way too many mutable instruments modules. Plus these are available in smaller HP so a total waste of space.

3. I see an Optomix but no real VCAs? Totally unusable.

4. I suggest doing a lot more research before posting another rack. Etc, etc…

Looking at a price tag around 5 thousand dollars and facing comments like these, feel really discouraged (and confused?) and never take the next steps towards getting into modular synthesis.

Was the genre of synthesis potentially just harmed?
-- Hazel

Thanks for the post. Ann Annie is pretty famous in modular. The rack you're looking at works. But I seriously doubt that this rack is all of Ann Annie's modules. This rack was probably specifically built for this piece by someone with some serious knowledge and talent. If you want to reproduce this song with those sounds... perfect. But we're discussing what usually turns out to be someone's full kit that has to be more than a one-trick-pony.

Some of my favorite modules are Ornaments & Crime as well as Temps Utile.

I have the Pittsburgh sequencer. I hate that thing with a passion. You'll get more use out of an Ornaments & Crime and more features in 8HP (microversion) than the 10HP Pittsburgh. That's beyond the scope of what you're asking. But I found it worth mentioning.

It also can function as a quantizer, LFO, and some other nice functions

The Temps Utile can function as a 1-in, 6-out clock divider/multiplier. It also does Euclidean and simple trigger sequences, some internal logic, and is also 8HP.

Research those two modules and see if they fit within your creative horizons.

Hope you understand what I mean, I'm German speaking.

A few Months ago i started my Eurorack Journey and asked for Advice here on Modgrid. I also got Advice from Lugia and Ronin.

I really appreciated this because these People have lots of knowledge in Eurorack.

Maybe the Answers from Lugia sound a bit "grumpy"sometimes but I think he really cares that people don't waste their Money on a non Working Rack.

Lugia puts a lot of time and effort in his replies and advice.

But I agree with you. When someone posts his Rack on MG an the first thing they read is "unusable" or "doesn't work" may be a bit
discouraging for Eurorack Beginners :-)

But like I said. I think Lugia really cares that Beginners got the most out of their Money and a proper working Rack.

Thanks to @theartstrip for the 3x MIA, nice module, safe packaging.

Can somebody tell me a difference between ES-8 and FH-2?
I need the module to send midi to cv from ableton cv-tools to my Stillson Hammer mk2. The outputs could be set to be a note, gate or modulation source.
It doesn't necessary need to have a lot of outputs because i plan to use cv multiplier.

So i can't completely decide which module I need for my purposes. Maybe you could help with your opinion.)

EDITED Nov 22nd 2019, 10:20

Hi Danjas,

Regarding point 1, not sure but maybe the ACL Sinfonion can do this, you might want to check that module out. The con is the price.

About point 2 not too sure what you want, do you mean something like a random generator or something like that? If yes, there are several random generator modules, just go in this forum at modules and look there for what you might need.

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.
-- GarfieldModular

Thanks! Regarding point one i found Arpitech - if i understand right it could do some things that i need.

About point 2 - i mean not just a simple random generator, but a module that could generate another sound from the input audio, maybe morphagene?

Hi Groc,

After reading your reply I am less worried and I think you are going the right way. As long as you know (or think you know) what you are doing regarding those sexy and fancy looking modules then that's all right.

Making a mistake is totally okay within Eurorack, has there been anybody out there that never made a mistake? :-) It's so common, that's totally fine and from those mistakes we can learn and improve ourselves regarding Eurorack or modular in common.

Did you bought already the casing? If not yet, then please consider a bigger one, for example the 7U of Intellijel, as already mentioned.

As Ronin mentioned there's always an interesting way to do things. It's like that old phrase saying: "There are many roads leading to Rome". The same is applicable for Eurorack. There are many different ways to get things done within Eurorack. With the exception of a few small matters, you actually can just do anything with Eurorack. You can patch whatever you like, you can experiment the way you want and during that process you learn a lot. So enjoy your first few modules and welcome to Eurorack :-)

Have fun, good luck and don't hesitate to check/ask here, kind regards, Garfield.

So far I'm pretty happy with where I've got to with the modules I've bought, my next purchase thoughts are around the following:
Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4
Noise Engineering Clep Diaz
2hp Arp
2hp RND
Happy Nerding FX Aid
Also need a Clock Multiplier

Or
Monsoon (NI Clouds Clone)

I need a bit more Random going into the Turing Machine, I feel I need a slow clock as the main clock with Multiplier for the lighter jingly/twinkly bits, a Clouds Clone and/or more effects for some textural washes of sound to go around what I already have (and derived from what I already have).

EDITED Nov 21st 2019, 22:01

Thanks tyson… the last thing I want for active members of this forum to feel is like they’re being ganged up on, but it’s also nice to know I’m not alone here.

I managed to track down the video I mentioned in my last post. Whether or not this music is one’s taste is of course not the point. It has 33k views and over a thousand likes and the first two comments are: “this wins the grammy for best generative synth track” (Lugia’s thread titled “Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work” might be worth bringing up). And then: “This just leaves me breathless everytime I listen to it. It's almost painfully beautiful..”
Scroll further down and someone posts: “Amazing! How is it possible to obtain more information on a setup like this? I am no musician but I would love to have something like this at home and play around with it. I guess it will be a diccicult task to master...”

Here’s an answer/plausible scenario. Do some research and come across a site called modular grid with the unique feature of being able to create a virtual rack which you can submit for feedback. Post a similar setup to this video (or even an identical one). Receive criticism along the lines of this:

1. Lots of attractive modules but totally lacking in utility modules. Will make a great decoration or prop but good luck making music with it.

2. TWO Rings + an Elements and Plonk! Call the redundancy department. And way too many mutable instruments modules. Plus these are available in smaller HP so a total waste of space.

3. I see an Optomix but no real VCAs? Totally unusable.

4. I suggest doing a lot more research before posting another rack. Etc, etc…

Looking at a price tag around 5 thousand dollars and facing comments like these, feel really discouraged (and confused?) and never take the next steps towards getting into modular synthesis.

Was the genre of synthesis potentially just harmed?

EDITED Nov 22nd 2019, 03:45

As someone recently on the receiving end of some blunt but probably fair criticism for my proposed rack, I thought I would give my thoughts on this thread. I do think criticism, blunt or otherwise, can be useful. But there's a difference between being told your rack is lacking and what you need to learn, and being told to "quit immediately" if you don't pass whatever artistic litmus test. Hazel's post struck me as a thoughtful response to a thread which had a mix of helpful and holier-than-thou posts. That the first reply was "I'm not understanding the point" of the post surprised me, because I thought it made a lot of good points, especially the last paragraph about the value of making mistakes.

I take Ronin's words at face value that "we want people to have great experiences and really enjoy their racks and cases. But they have to get past the first hurdle of what exactly IS a modular synth and how do you interface with it?" Many hobbies have hurdles for beginners. (Especially track and field.) To extend the running metaphor: yes, you have to get over the hurdles yourself, but a good coach can help you get ready to jump them.

For a forum where criticism almost seems to be the default response, there was a strange lack of self-criticism in the replies to Hazel's post. Instead, it was dismissed with "Besides criticism of other members and their decades of experience... what are you offering to this year old thread?" which both misses and underscores the point. Beyond this particular thread, I agree that there tends to be an "an unnecessary level of discouragement" in this community. And that's a shame, because this forum could be missing out on a lot of posters who either feel intimidated or just put off by the general tone.

Maybe I'd see things differently if I knew a lot more about modular and synthesis and attenuverters, if that's even a real word. But consider the opposite: how would the most experienced people here view the forum if they were coming here for the first time, without all their knowledge and experience? Would they want to stay and learn, or find somewhere else more welcoming? I ask that because I'm asking myself the same question.

You also mentioned, I think it was Ronin1973 that new users lack knowledge on triggers, gates, clocks etc. I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
-- Groc

I read your whole post. But this line jumped out at me the most. If we were to write "the book" one of the biggest recommendations would be to download and install VCV Rack. The basic system is free and there are a lot of free expansions. It's an entire Eurorack-style ecosystem that will allow you to add and play with modules using virtual Eurorack standards. When you're trying to get a feel for what is a trigger, gate, clock, CV, etc. it's an invaluable resource for learning and trying things out hands on. You'll walk away with a lot more knowledge of how modular works in the real world... by doing. I can't stress it enough.

Eurorack is tricky to get your mind around coming from DAWs and hardware MIDI. I think people get comfortable with virtual plug-ins and traditional MIDI instruments that are far easier to use than control voltages. Being able to recall complete patches and using a working INIT patch means little thought has to be given to HOW different components actually communicate with each other. In Eurorack, you literally have to make the connections between components by hand.

As you discover how CV works, you'll notice a lot of very basic modules can really unleash the full power of such a retro method of making synth sounds. It's that level of control that, personally, brought me to Eurorack.

It's all good. I hope you stay around for quite a while and post frequently. I'm still learning a lot as well. There's always an interesting way to do things.

bought a doepfer wasp filter from @afriendofken - quick shipping, very happy.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
I am a bit surprised by some of the things mentioned.
"Please try to plan less "fancy" or "sexy" modules however more classic components (they might look boring, they do look boring but you seriously need them) like VCOs, VCFs, EGs, LFOs, VCAs, etcetera."
Fancy and sexy have very little to do with what I am trying to achieve. It's all about the sound for me and if I could make the sounds in my head with 12 VCA's, I would be happy to do that :)
I have 3 Oscillaors, 2 VCF's, 2 EG, 5 VCA's and a basic LFO so far.
I have been reading what you suggested though and am seeing that my modules are fine but very incomplete without more utility modules.

''Another consideration is that you're using a lot of Mutable Instruments modules."
I am actually only using 2 but I get your point. I think one of the issues for "some" people new to eurorack, myself I would include here, is we do research and want to get what is considered the best quality and most versatile modules; therefore Mutable Instruments comes up a lot. However, like everything, maybe it is just a bunch of online magazines trying to profit from other peoples lack of knowledge and maybe there own, I don't know.

I read "Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work" and the replies that follow and I think you guys should write that short book for beginners.
Every time a newbe posts "Help! New to Eurorack", you guys can just give the link to the e-book :)
It would be so helpful and also it would help adjust the expectations of those really interested and not interested in learning eurorack, as well as the cost involved (especially for errors on purchasing unnecessary modules).
You also mentioned, I think it was Ronin1973 that new users lack knowledge on triggers, gates, clocks etc. I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
I feel lost in a forest when it comes to that stuff. I am so use to midi and how easy it is to implement. I get Oscillators, Filters, EG's, VCA's and LFO's (a basic synth) but I think it gets complicated after that, which probably sounds silly to people with experience like yourselves.
I am always reading what I can and looking at Youtube etc but it is all so fragmented and incomplete. An authority on the subject would be helpful.

Thanks for all the info guys and for taking the time out of your days to help and you have probably saved me some money here so thank you.

I already ordered the Plaits, Stages, Polaris, Quad VCA and uFold pre this post so I will learn these as much as I can and use them with my Lifeforms SV-1. I will also add the Quadratt as advised and maybe a sequencer module.
I might also add the Disting at some point to see what other utility modules I need for my own purposes.

Ok, thanks again!
I can see I have a lot of reading and experimenting to do so best of luck.
I am sure I will be back...

Thanks, Ronin, for both of your replies, and I apologize if my first post sounded harsher than it needed to.

I’m not sure I agree with everything you wrote here. I’m not especially familiar with the Mother 32 but it seems like a very capable synth in it’s own right. The prospect of integrating it with a small eurorack setup that includes Disting, Tides, Maths, and Shades, and then adding some of the modules that placebo suggested (Strymon Magneto, Intellijel Rainmaker, MI Clouds, Make Noise Erb-Verb, Tiptop Z-DSP) seems to me far from “just piling on the bad.” It seems a bit strange to me that you can agree with the creative potential of a slinky or Pringles can (which I agree with too btw) but make the statement you did about the above setup. (It’s also worth noting that Lugia agreed with placebo’s recommendation to add effects modules to this rack.)

I apologize if these posts of mine aren’t helping as that’s really my intention, but I feel like the following point is valid: I think statements like yours above, and the quotes of Lugia’s that I’ve referenced, may in fact do just as much harm to the genre of synthesis than less-than-perfect setups that require the user to make adjustments as they begin to learn more.

I also think it’s possible there may be a bit more space for different approaches to a modular setup than it seems you and Lugia believe. An example… A rack that was posted a few days ago received the following criticism: “There's an Elements...and a Rings? OK with the Department of Redundancy Department, perhaps, but a waste of space otherwise. Lose one or the other.” Note they didn’t merely point out that these two modules are similar; they more or less gave an order. Yet I recall a video popping up in my youtube suggestions recently that featured a 6U case that not only had Elements and Rings, but Elements + two Rings (all three of which were being used). If I remember correctly it was quite lovely, had thousands of views and many enthusiastic comments. Might the OP of that thread have benefited from using both of those modules in a rack that was 12U / 84HP? I don’t know, but I think it’s reasonable to suggest that it’s a possibility.

Look: I hope it goes without saying that I’m not trying to start anything, or to insult anyone personally. We both agree that modular synths are wonderful instruments, and I agree that many people likely don’t do the necessary research required to get into this – that they post racks with serious flaws and that they benefit greatly from the advice of you, Lugia, and others… With a subject that can be so daunting though (it terms of learning curve and cost) I’ve found what I see as an unnecessary level of discouragement in many of the posts I’ve come across.

For what you are planning, the lack of filters, VCAs, VCFs, attenuators and attenuverters, you are just going to have a very expensive and poorly functioning sampler on your desk.

You've fallen into the same pit as most people new to Eurorack fall into. You seem to not understand HOW a control voltage environment works and you're cherry picking modules that you seem to like. You really need to educate yourself how Eurorack/modular synthesis works and start planning AFTER.

I realize that you're planning for this to work with VCV Rack. But there are gaping holes here. I'm not picking on you. I hope everything works out well and you get everything out of your gear you're looking for. But this build is just lacking.