This is really helpful so thank you for taking the time to help me out especially because you must give this advise often. Still a bit to wrap my head around, but that’s exciting!

In terms of some VCAs, noise sources, attenuators/attenuverters, and mixers, what would you say are some good ones to start with?

Regarding your question about external synths, one has the ability to send and receive CV, the Dave Smith Pro 3, and the other is what I have been use it for ages, the microKorg, which cannot interface directly. And to better clarify the straight forward sound, I like the sounds that LCD Soundsystem produces, both more straightforward a more weird flourishes they texture their songs with.

At the same time I like the idea of being able to also explore more ambient possibilities. I get the feeling that these may not be able to coexist in a rack the size I am working to but I could be wrong.

Also, is there anything that I should keep from this first stab?


The Intellijel 7U case has two jacks for input and two jacks for output. However, you still need to buy an in-out module to make use of them. It doesn't come with any hardware to use the audio jacks or the USB connection. It just comes "ready" for them. The Intellijel 1u in-out should be fine and buy some room in the rest of the rack.


What external synths are you using? Are they Eurorack compatible or just your "normal" hardware synths?

You expressed interest in "straight forward" sound. But the modules that you have are sample-playback, a wavetable oscillator, and an additive source (even though analog). To me, a straight-forward synth sound would include two traditional VCO units somewhere in the mix. But that's my interpretation of that definition. You might want to clarify that.

What seems to be missing are the usual suspects: VCAs, noise sources, attenuators/attenuverters, and mixers of all varieties. Basically all of the boring stuff that makes the difference in modular that most people forget and start stacking up the cool/sexy modules in their rack.

Also, if you're only going to have one filter, I would pick something that can do more than just low-pass.

You have a lot of big modules in a relatively small rack and nothing that really "glues" them all together (boring modules). You might want to start all over and think about modulation first and then sound sources next. The brilliance of Eurorack is the modulation.


Thread: AE Modular?

They do have a format grid to help you plan your setup. It's on the Tangible Waves Web site: http://grid.aemodular.com/


Thread: AE Modular?

Really excited to hear this. We are going to order a setup or two for our youth workshops. Really wish they had the format and AE modules on here to plan our setup!


Thread: AE Modular?

I was quite shocked how good the Ae stuff sounds , it reminds me of older analogue gear , i am not a fan of a lot of modern sound and quality of the audio but Ae is really for the cash amazing sonically speaking i feel.

www.ishq.org


”So do I understand you right that you need a kind of LFO that goes very slowly up to a certain maximum value and then holds that value, right? How long should that hold that maximum value?
-- GarfieldModular”

Exactly!
I want it to hold the value until it get a new trigger/gate and starts over again from one level to another.
I guess it requires a complex patching or maybe it is not possible?
Maybe some kind of LFO but I rather think of some other kind of function generator like Maths or an advanced EG.
One patch I will test:
Three oscillators are tuned to the same pitch e.g. C1.
Osc 1 then slowly raise to C2. Osc 2 to E2 and Osc 3 to G2 (with different speeds) so a chord is evolving from the C1 pitch.


Hi Rookie,

Interesting matter :-) So do I understand you right that you need a kind of LFO that goes very slowly up to a certain maximum value and then holds that value, right? How long should that hold that maximum value? So what you then need is an LFO that once it reaches the maximum value turns that into an frozen-delay function :-) That would be nice to have indeed and of course vice versa for going down to a certain minimum value and hold it there too.

No idea if that exists, haven't come across that... yet... Perhaps more senior members have ideas how to realise that?

I was thinking of an AH (Attack-Hold) envelope but that might likely not be able too hold that maximum value long enough for you?

Kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Hi Scozzola,

Lugia provided you already with some excellent comments, so just follow up on his advice and you should be fine.

Just one small matter, instead of getting the Intellijel's Outs module, you could consider the 7U 104 HP casing from Intellijel, then some basic input/output matters are already taken care off by the casing itself and with the 1U modules you can add some nice useful utilisation functions. That saves you even more space and leaves you more space here for the more valuable 3U space.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Thread: 6U 104 HP

Hi Scozzola,

Isn't this in fact the same question as you have in this same forum subgroup "Racks" under the post "6U 84 HP Eurorack"? I will reply in that post to you.

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Hi Gilera,

Bit difficult question to answer on the other hand... the A4 got already 4 outputs (CVs/gates), so why not taking this the easy way and start to work with your A4 (Elektron Analogue Four) as the unit that controls your modular system and save for the moment the money for a MIDI to CV module.

If you then after a while realise that perhaps those 4 outputs aren't sufficient then you still can start to use your OT (Elektron Octa Track) via MIDI and with a MIDI to CV module. At least if the A4 seems to be sufficient, you save yourself the trouble of finding a good MIDI to CV module as well as the money for it :-) And by the way... if you want to utilise your OT fully... you need at least a module that can handle simultaneous 8 MIDI tracks... most modules only can go up till 4 tracks though, so you need already to MIDI to CV modules, saving even more money if your A4 is sufficient enough. I therefore would try to start this of with your A4 first and see if that's enough.

I don't know the Hexinverter Mutant Brain module very well but from the information I have read, looks like you also can go up till 4 channels simultaneously, perhaps with a few tricks a few more channels, not sure. Another module to consider and that I am using is the Vermona qMI 2, a very nice logical module to use and up till 4 channels, each channel: gate out, 1V/oct, and 2 CVs out, beside that also clock out. I had for a short while the Doepfer A-190-5 but somehow I didn't feel that module was logically to use at all, difficulties with the menu (understanding) and I exchanged it for the Vermona, and that was so much easier and better. It's a pity because I actually do like Doepfer modules. I got quite a few Doepfer modules and I am happy with them, the A-190-5 is so far the exception.

By the way... if you got already an A4 and OT... why do you still need modular? You got already two lovely nice devices :-) !

Kind regards and good luck, Garfield Modular.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


ModularGrid Rack

This is my first rack. So be brutal.

As pretty much everyone else here I have come to seek advise and opinions on the rack that I am dreaming up.

Currently I have only The Z-DSP and the Intellijel Audio I/O and use this to process external synths. That said I do want to move more into the modular world. I’ve tried to read and take on board how to approach a eurorack build, keeping in mind the building blocks of sound.

Still learning.

That said any suggestions, advice, etc. from this community would be very much appreciated! :)

As for sound I'm interested in more straightforward synth sounds but also want to be able to experiment with ambient. Don't know if it's possible to have both in a rack this size. :/


You also might want to have a look at this: https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/usamocompatibility.html This page shows interface compatibilities for their USAMO interface...basically, interfaces that are DC-coupled. I use an older MOTU 828 mkii myself, with Live's CV Tools.


Considerably more sense, yes. The choice of the Noise Reap Loafers is especially interesting, since it has all sorts of odd interaction possibilities between its LFOs. Tandemmed with a Maths, that'll be a killer modulation solution.

Not too jazzed on the STO here, though...it strikes me as too spendy, given that you're trying to drop costs. So, let's do several things at once by eliminating both the STO and the Plaits, and adding a Plaits clone by Codex Modulex (saves about $50) and a Braids clone from them as well, which is only $3 more than the STO. This then gives you two VCOs with similar characteristics, which works better for doubling VCOs to fatten up your sound. Then, to hit that Buchla-esque zone, add a Tiptop Fold Processor and use its two inputs as the VCO "mixer", which would put the two Codex clones into a configuration more akin to a complex oscillator. It's a cheap date, too...$135 for a killer wavefolder.

A delay. You absolutely want one now, so that you can properly (ab)use the resonance insert in the A-106-1's resonance path. By doing that, you can create echoes which degrade over time in ways which you control to some extent. A reverb would be really interesting here as well.

The last suggestion here would be to divide paths. Put your audio path in the top row (as best as possible) and the modulation in the lower one, along with the power supply. You want to keep that last thing away from any audio modules to avoid noise leakage. Plus, dividing your functions up like that makes the synth easier to program in the long run, since everything should have a specific place based on function. Going to a 2 x 104 is loads more sensible, too...


I need a VC function where a voltage slowly increases or decreases from one value to another and then stays there. I guess there are many solutions for this but I do not know how to do it :-(


Guys, i currently started building a small modular setup and already have both A4 and OT.
Would it be best to sequence/control the modular with A4 or should i get a midi to cv module (mutant brain) and use OT?


There are several issues here:
(1) Using your DAW to 'play' your rack by sending it v/oct, gate and other CV signals
(2) Capturing the audio from your rack and feeding it into your DAW
(3) Getting the result to your speaker.
(4) Sync

A common approach for (1) would be to use a MIDI-to-CV converter (Mutable Yarns, Expert Sleepers FH-1/2, many others) to take MIDI signals from your DAW and give you v/oct, gate and mod signals. In fact, your Keystep will already do this - feed its v/oct, gate and mod outputs to your rack (probably what you're doing already) hook it to your Mac by USB create an external MIDI track in your DAW, enter a few notes on the MIDI editor and bingo.

The common approach for (2) would be to feed the output from either your mixer or your rack to a regular (non-Eurorack) USB or Thunderbolt audio interface box. You can then add an audio track in your DAW and it will get its input from the rack. Most audio interfaces will also drive your active speakers and have a 'mix' knob so you can fade between the output of your DAW and the 'input' from your rack. Its your choice whether you get an audio interface with lots of inputs and use your DAW as a mixer, feed the stereo from your mixer into the audio interface... or feed the output from the DAW into your mixer. Depends what you're doing.

The ES-8 and ES-9 are, fundamentally, Eurorack-format audio interfaces. They do integrate nicely into your rack, and transfer multi-channel audio to and from your DAW. The ES-9 even has an extra pair of outputs that will drive your speakers or mixer. However, the main reason for choosing them over a regular (and maybe cheaper) non-Euro audio interface is that they can also carry CV, V/Oct, gate, mod etc. to and from your DAW. Regular audio interfaces are (usually) 'A/C coupled' which means that they'll filter out anything below audio frequency - so if you try and pass control voltages they'll get mangled. ES8/9 are 'DC coupled' which means that they can carry slowly-changing control voltages as well as audio. This lets you do cool things like using 'modular' software synths like VCV Rack or Reaktor as an extension to your eurorack system and enjoy infinite free modules. You can also use them as an arguably superior alternative to MIDI for controlling your rack from the DAW, but you'll need a plug-in like Expert Sleepers' 'silent way' for Logic/Reaper or Ableton's CV Tools (I think Bitwig has built-in support - may be worth checking out if you're shopping for DAWs) but it's more hassle than just using MIDI-to-CV.

As for sync - if you're using the KeyStep, there are mini-switches on the back that let you select the 'sync' source - if you set that to USB, tell your DAW to send MIDI clock and start/stop data to the KeyStep then the sequencer and arp should be nicely synced to your DAW. You've also got a sync jack on the back which you can feed to sequencers and stuff (clocked delays etc.) on the Eurorack. I guess the BeatStep will have similar settings.

I wouldn't rule out the ES-9 but it might be easier to start experimenting with the Keystep and a regular audio interface (if you don't already have one, Behringer do some cheap'n'cheerful ones like the UMC404 that won't hurt too much if you change your mind ).


Thread: 6U 104 HP

Hello everyone,
Another try at building my first rack (on MG first).
The idea is to include in first row the fundamental modules that I wold buy first; second row will be for additional modules (e.g., Maths, Marbles, ...).

Please share your thoughts.

ModularGrid Rack

Thank you.
Bye.


New version here:
ModularGrid Rack

6U 104HP case. Right now 1 row only filled with basic components. Does it make any sense?

Thank you.


Hey all,

I’ve been playing with modular for a while and I’m looking at integrating my setup with a DAW, something I have no experience of.

I have pretty standard modular system with a mixer that has stereo and headphone outputs that goes to my active speaker.

Now I’m looking at integrating the system with a DAW, so essentially taking the sound my module are producing route them through a DAW and integrate them with other digital sound sources but I’m lost.

From what I could find, I understand I need an interface like the Expert Sleepers ES-9, I would connect the output of my modules via USB-C to my MacBook and from their have individual track from my modules that I could integrate with other tracks coming from within the DAW (looking at Ableton).

Then I would need to take the sound out of my MacBook using a USB DAC and then output to my mixer.

Is my understanding correct that the ES-9 would do the analog to digital convertion, interface with Ableton and then take all sound source out through a DAC?

Then I’m also very confused about clock handling and midi interaction, I have an arturia keystep and beat step pro so I’m really wondering how all those things will ‘talk’ to each other.

Any help or ressources would be extremely welcome.

Cheers


I got rid of the problem by un-installing/re-installing Firefox.
Have you tried that already?


Hi Lugia,
Thank you for your feedback.

I quickly read it and already found very useful information.
I will now read it again carefully while designing another rack (6U 104 HP) trying to make one row with essential components (including first ones I may purchase) and second row with additional more advanced components.

Thank you again.


[WARNING: DEVIL'S ADVOCACY FOLLOWS]

I'm going to venture a guess that about half of you reading this right now DO NOT need a modular synthesizer.

No, really. While you see these instruments quite a bit these days, especially on YouTube and other Interwebz outlets, and while they look really intriguing, there are some points about them that you might want to consider.

First of all, what ARE modular synthesizers? Some people think that any synth with patchpoints is a modular, and this is simply wrong. Devices such as the Korg MS-20, ARP 2600, etc are often called “modular”, but these are better described as “patchable” since they have a prepatched voice path, and the patchpoints are actually override points for this. A true modular synthesizer DOES NOT have a prepatched voice; instead, ALL connections must be made by hand between individual circuit modules (hence the name), and the instruments are made up of collections of these.

But also, one has to keep in mind what a synthesizer IS. And that would be an instrument in which sound is generated and manipulated through electronic means AND which consists of four basic parts:
generators, modifiers, modulators, and controllers. So, in the case of a modular synthesizer, it must have those four primary components in the proper ratios so that you actually arrive at a usable instrument. But IS there some hard and fast rule there?

Well...no. And this is where the trouble starts.

Clearly, there are devices that must be in any synthesizer. But when that's predetermined by another engineer or designer, it lets you off the hook. You don't have to worry about putting the right stuff in the case, as that's already done for you.

...but not in a modular synthesizer, however, unless you get a prebuilt system. Aside of those, you're on your own. So if that's the case, then how well do you know how synthesis works? Well? Really well? Not really at all?

Modular synthesizers ARE NOT a good starting-point to learn synthesis. In fact, they're quite terrible! There is so much to them that can be gotten wrong that they actually have better odds of misinforming new users than giving them the keys to the sonic kingdom. Patchables are better for this, because when your tinkering outright fails, you can always fall back on the prepatched path. In fact, I often state that the best teaching synth of all time has to be the ARP 2600. If you can't sort out how the process works on one of THOSE...well, pianos don't have knobs, and you might feel more comfortable with one. Maybe if Korg pulls its collective head out of its collective ass and decides to ACTUALLY reissue these (instead of dicking everyone over with 500 units only, worldwide), you'll get a chance to see what I mean.

But I digress...anyway, the reason why these are easier and why they're what I would recommend is because of that default path. You're never left with a “useless” box of widgets. OTOH, a modular will do EXACTLY THAT to you if you don't know what you're doing. Or worse, you'll have a box that fights you at every turn!

“But why does [INSERT “INFLUENCER” HERE] have one,” you ask? Hm...they look good, for one thing. One would expect that, if there's that wall of knobs and wires and blinkylites, this guy on the screen must know what they're going on about...right? Right? TELL ME I'M RIGHT!!!

No, you're not right. A lot of these people just have them around as set decorations, really. Do you see them messing around with it for more than just the span of the video? Or sillier, do you see them with moooooooood lighting (yes, that many “o”s are needed) and such, like the whole effin' studio has Bond Villain lighting? Yeah...uh...that's probably a good indicator that they don't, and furthermore, that they probably don't do anything aside of YouTube, because that's what you'd call a “set” and NOT a “studio”. The musicians I respect and pay attention to on that platform, frankly, don't have any of that BS; their studios look like they see constant use and they don't bother with trying to make their workspaces look like an IKEA showroom. Want to have some fun? Watch one of these “fashionable” YouTubers for a hot minute and count the technical mistakes...you'll either be laughing hysterically or throwing up. Maybe both.

The real purpose of a modular synthesizer in the 2020s is that they serve as bespoke devices for musicians who have gone beyond the typical limitations of off-the-shelf synths. But even there, there's a caveat waiting, since “off-the-shelf” these days implies a metric buttload of power for the most part. Case in point: the Waldorf Quantum. It costs about as much as a decently-populated Eurorack modular. And for the average synthesist, it's WAY more than enough synthesizer. But if you have a very specific idea that goes beyond what a synth like that is capable of...well, that's why modulars exist. But you would have to know what exhausting those possibilities is like FIRST, and it takes quite a bit of work and time to outgrow some of the more complex instruments out there these days.

So, let's go back a bit. Sure, you saw a lot of people using them early on in the 1960s and 70s. But remember: the monosynth as we know it didn't happen until around 1970 (the Minimoog), there was no such thing as a “polysynth” although very limited instruments using divide-down polyphony existed, and pop music was also a great deal less timbrally complicated. So back then, modulars were the logical next step. But once the Sequential Prophet 5 came out, that started changing. That synth provided memory over all parameters, five voices of TRUE polyphony, and loads of knobs for tweakage plus a really good keybed. And it kicked butt sonically.

Where polysynths get a bad rep is actually from a slightly later period, the mid-1980s. At that point, a number of cheap digital synths appeared and everyone figured, OK, these are the way to go. And while some of these sounded great, they were totally crap to program. You had one of either two ways to go here: either you had the dreaded “data slider”, which actually started on the ARP (later Rhodes) Chroma but which everyone UNfondly remembers from the Yamaha DX series. Or if not that, then you got the “programming cheap-out” from firms like Roland, where you had to buy a “programmer” as a separate accessory, and which in some cases would require this device to hog your MIDI ports, if you didn't want to get stuck with a bunch of factory presets and maybe (if you were lucky) a few global controls to vary things.

Certainly, these synthesizers sucked massively for various reasons, which also included some very real issues with audio capability. And they were the yardstick on which the resurgence of modular was measured...a resurgence that, in its day, was very necessary! When we hit the nadir of digital, with the avalanche of “rompler” synths that began at the end of the 1980s, it was time to get back to knobs and jacks.

But the situation NOW is not the situation THEN.

Right now, it's possible to drop $5k on a Eurorack system, easily. It's also possible to drop LESS on a very capable prebuilt synth and get much the same sorts of sonic results. Things changed. A lot. We finally got digital synthesis that was easy to program, for one thing; for example, the raw power that was at the heart of the DX-7 could now be got as a cheap mini-keyboard with an interface that, at long last, FINALLY made sense (even though there's knob programmers for it, just like back in the day with Jellinghausen's). We also got polysynths that could be toted around without any need for having your hernia surgeon on speed-dial. And others that can make former monsters like the Synclavier look like a 1954 Philco black-and-white TV, technologically speaking. And terrifyingly-potent monosynths with all the features of a suitable modular can now be got off the shelf...such as the Matrixbrute, the Pro-3, the Subsequent 37, et al. Clearly, the points of the late 1980s through Dieter's introduction of the Eurorack format were listened to, eventually. And not only that, but you can now easily GET a Synclavier...or Fairlight...or a lot of other things in software versions that carefully and exactingly emulate the originals. I mean, hell, I've used Synclaviers, even HAD one in the 1990s...and the Arturia SynclavierV is pretty much indistinguishable now that it has the resynthesis function. You don't even need to BUY it...just steal a cracked copy, which is far easier than heisting the huge processor cab, terminal, keyboard controller, two floppys, pedals, and the various hefty cables of the real device, not to mention the huge binder of manuals and all the necessary floppy disks.

So...what is the whole point of modular NOW? I mean, really, if you can do that...

Modular still has a point to it. It's NOT an entry point, though, like I mentioned. Instead, modular synthesizers are a DESTINATION. They are where you go when you have a certain musical vision at hand, and what you need isn't an off the shelf solution. Unlike the old days, they aren't where you start. They were that only back in synthesizers' first decade or two and haven't been that since! And this is because we DO have better solutions for the average electronic musicians out there.

“That's bullsh*t! I know I need one!” Is this sort of like how, back in the 1990s, everyone was convinced that you couldn't make techno without having a TB-303 onhand and you knew you needed one of those? Well...yeah. And this hype really does modular synthesis no good.

When you have a situation like this, what actually results is:

1) lots of stuff getting sold that will wind up in the back of a closet in a couple of years. And...

2) lots of frustrated modular purchasers who fell into this trap and bought expensive gear they didn't understand, hence #1 above.

Makes for a great used market, I guess, but it's not constructive.

So...if you're looking at ModularGrid right now with this grand idea that you're going to drop $5k on a modular that, once you have it mastered (because, by your admission, you're still “learning synthesis”), it will make you into the second coming of Wendy Carlos, Keith Emerson, Brian Eno and Aphex Twin all at the same time...ahhhh, you might want to dial that enthusiasm back. A lot. First up, the ability to be that person has nothing to do with gear; see The Shaggs' “Philosophy of the World” for a prime example of how equipment won't save your ass musically. Secondly, if you're still learning, you're either going to have a long slog up that learning curve or, more likely, you'll start questioning your sanity as regards buying that monstrosity and find yourself clearing closet space. If you don't know what you're doing with synthesizer programming prior to buying a modular synth, you will be horrified to find that what you DO know is nowhere near what's needed to grapple with one.

How to get there, though? OK...since Korg opted to be total jackasses with the (only available for one day or so) ARP 2600 reissue, your next best option is their MS-20. You can patch around its fixed voice path, check. Externally or internally controllable, check. All the usual circuits, check. Panel that's straightforward enough to understand while trashed, check. Self-containment, check. Perfectly utilitarian design, check. Decent price that's NOT $5k, check; in fact, while the Mini is still around, it would cost a bit more than 1/10th of that. If you're still learning synthesis, THAT is the right tool to learn ON. And NOT a modular synth that costs several times that. Get the MS-20 down first, then proceed. And yeah, you can patch it into the later modular gear, although you'll have to deal with the inverse gate/trig and Hz/V CV issues. No biggie if you know what you're doing by that point.

“But what do I get NEEEEEEXXXTTTT?!?!?!” Ahhh... how'bout that brand-new Yamland STFU? Until and unless you can get something on the level of the above example down, stay well away from modular. Otherwise, you risk digging a monetary hole the likes of which you've never likely experienced, and climbing out of it will be the most unfun thing of your life.

BUT...if you can get super-cozy with an MS-20, and you find you can expand it in useful ways via its patch panel, and maybe you'd like to add a little something like a skiff with a Maths in it...maybe a third VCO...or some other filter...or... Now, THAT is how to proceed, and how to do so sensibly AND in a way that does let you learn synthesis. And I know this because it's how I started progressing, albeit with an ARP 2600 since we're talking 1981 here, otherwise, same diff.

Patchables are really the proper starting point, for all of these reasons. And something like a Plankton ANTS!, which is just a single box, is a great way to expand and yet still have the prepatch paradigm for when things go haywire. Dreadbox makes a few that fit here, too. And if you want to go bananas, there's Kilpatrick's Phenol. And in all of these cases, it's obvious what you're doing, and what you're doing that with. About the only thing you're guaranteed of learning by getting tossed into the deep end of the pool is drowning, really; start somewhere where you can still touch the pool bottom if you've got any sense and any budgeting capabilities.

Anyway, this isn't meant to dissuade anyone from exploring their options in modular. Rather, it's a plea for new synthesists to use some basic pragmatism when approaching modular for the first time. If you know where you're trying to get to sonically, then by all means give modular a shot. But understand that if you DON'T...it's gonna hurt either your brain or your bank account. Maybe both. Consider your options carefully...


The forums will time out. This was done in order to deal with some issues with spamming some time ago, and while it's an inconvenience, eventually you learn to copy your post before dropping it just in case.
-- Lugia

No I mean the racks, not the forums.


Thread: AE Modular?

Yup! Lugia is spot on. Not only that when you consider the layout: wires up top, knob down bottom: input on the left, outputs on the right, you simply have far less chance of dropping leads. and like Lugia said the pin sockets and the new wires make it even better. It's a well thought out design.


The forums will time out. This was done in order to deal with some issues with spamming some time ago, and while it's an inconvenience, eventually you learn to copy your post before dropping it just in case.


Again, why do this with a modular? You could go nuts on eBay if the objective is effects processing; the same amount that would get you a modular system could ALSO allow you to fully populate a 12U rack with amazing processing gear and a small desktop mixer to control the whole mess, with beer money left over at the end. And while Eurorack modules go for no-joke money, studio-grade processors are getting blown out on the used market for dimes on the dollar.

Modular synths ARE NOT a necessary device. NOT. NECESSARY. They exist these days because 1) there are some of us out here who need them to get into sonic territory that's very uncharted or 2) a sizable contingent of people have become convinced that they ARE necessary...until they get hold of one, and then you lose about 2/3rds+ of that crowd when they discover that a modular is neither a "magic box" nor "easy". Naturally, this'll make for a very interesting used synth market in a decade or so...but I'm pretty sure that wasn't an intended outcome.

A good 75% of prospective modular synth buyers would probably be far better off, more productive, and less frustrated by something other than a modular synth. Trust me on this. I know they look cool and all that, but unless you're VERY certain about both the direction of your music AND your hardware capabilities, you're apt to find yourself in the deep end of the pool very quickly, to say nothing of the smoking hole in your Magic Plastic.


OK...a couple of things jump right out. First up, aside of the Dual FX, you don't have anything in here that's stereo. Yes, I know the Mixup seems to be stereo...but look closely: there's no panning on that. It's more of a "summing mixer", not something that can actually allow you to spatially-locate sound. Then, by extension, the Audio IO becomes pointless as well. Taken together, that's $350-ish, and it doesn't quite accomplish what it needs to. So...look instead at Doepfer's A-138s, which IS a four-in stereo mixer, and then at Happy Nerding's OUT, which gives you transformer isolation, a parallel stereo bus input, and master level controls...plus a headphone pre, 1/4" outs, and metering. Total: $270. Every bit counts, after all...

Then, I'd remove the drums. Seriously...you're probably better off with a dedicated drum machine, as this rig here doesn't really have the sequencing needed to support drum programming. And also, since there's no sequencing here, why is there a quantizer in there? Certainly not for the MIDI CVs...that's already quantized.

Filters...sort of redundant, really. The Forbidden Planet and the uVCF are rather similar designs. If you're going to have two VCFs in here, make them pretty divergent in sound...that way, you can put one out front as a "lead" voice and the rest of the sound can go thru the other.

Envelopes...the Quadra is decent as a two-stage EG, three if you use the ASR mode. But there's nothing here that can really make the filter(s) shine; for that, you'll probably need a couple of proper ADSRs...something like Doepfer's A-140-2. And then, with that in place, you can scale your AR envelopes back a bit.

TBH, the best way to reduce the budget here might be to make the build larger. That might sound counterintuitive, but the fact is that smaller modules tend to cost more in the long run than ones that take up more space, mainly because you can cram loads of them in. By moving up to a 2 x 104 hp cab, you can then put in a larger module that can cost the same (or less) that also gives you more functionality. For instance, let's say you were able to swap that 2hp LFO for a Noise Reap uLoaf. Same price. BUT...the uLoaf gives you a second LFO, more functions, some random capabilities in only 4 hp more space. But wait, there's more!...

Let's look at the cost of the spaces each module takes up! Now, $99 / 2 = $49.50 per space covered. But the Noise Reap comes in at $16.50 for each. So what's going on here? Simple...as you build up a row, make note of each module's cost per hp like that, then average this out when the row is populated so that you can see what a row costs per hp. This is a good indicator of your build costs; the lower that cost per hp number goes, the more cost-effective the build is. Filling a row out that comes in at an average of $17/hp is better than $21/hp, cost-wise...and by using that little formula, you can account for a single module that jacks up the row cost across the entire row's cost profile.

One last warning: this isn't a video game. You don't have a "win" here, there's no timer, no score. Don't EVEN try and get things right on your first build on MG; at this point, you're just sorting out that there's this many modules. It's NOT necessary to get the first build right...basically, NO ONE gets the first build right. Ever. Period. Even if you have decades of experience. Instead, whittle at this for a while...several weeks, maybe a few months...while researching what will get you a sound that's your sound. Proceed at a pace that works for designing something you'll live with for literally YEARS and which costs a sizable chunk of money. Speed, basically, is NOT of the essence here.


Thread: AE Modular?

Dupont leads really aren't all that problematic. One colleague of mine is using a Starter 2 extensively for live work, and he reports that the new pin sockets on the modules are considerably more stable than typical protoboard connectors. It's also possible that Korg skimped on those and got ones that're very shallow to better fit the Volca form factor; the deeper connectors I have on my Mescaline and my Bastl devices don't drop leads.


Thread: AE Modular?

They come out easily when I need them to. I've never had a wire come out while I was recording for even noodling around. Being a saxophone player in a former life, I'm used the needed dexterity. It simply isn't a problems for me. Honestly, Moogs have the only truly secure cables. Everyone else's connections are, well . . .

The latest version of the AE Modular wires are designed and made specifically for the AE Modular system, so they are much more secure than the original.

I bought the Starter 2 synth from Noisebug. Pretty sure I bought the very last one they had in stock! Then I ordered the following from Robert: 2 sequencers, two extra VCOs, an extra LFO, strings(Solina), slew limiter, MS20 filter, an extra 2x16U case & flying buses, and few other utility modules like headphone amps, stereo out and etc. The good thing is every module has a multiple, so no need for dedicated multiples. (NOTE: To clarify the AE Modular system uses Us instead of HP. Each module is 1U wide, and that serves as the standard measurement instead of HP.)

So this little rig will have 5 oscillators, three LFOs, three filters. noise, 2 samples & holds, 2 EG, 2 VCAs lots of utilities with plenty of room to grow. I'm really waiting on the quantizer. That's the one module this system sorely needs. The quantizer being geared fro production as we speak, so I'll just wait until the next round to get them. I was going to wait, but I figure go ahead and get my main order in to flesh out the lion's share of the system, then come back later with another order once the quantizers have been released.

It's a pretty good deal, and the sound is amazing. I'm happy with it. I will probably build a road case for it so I can take it with me and have it survive, lol!


Still seeing some flaky behavior with screenshot functions
-- Lugia

Thanks for reporting, it should work again for now with help from the wonder called "server reboot". I try to find out what the reason for all the trouble is ...

-- modulargrid

It looks like it's down again. None of the screenshot functions work and you get an error after it attempts to load.


Thread: AE Modular?

Nice. Do you find that the wire easily pull out? That was an issue with the volca.

What modules do you have in AE format?


Thread: AE Modular?

I already bought the AE Modular. Loving it.


Thread: AE Modular?

It's certainly affordable and has some cool modules, but given my time with a Korg Volca Modular, I wouldn't enjoy using patch wires instead of actual cables...


You should look for an Intellijel Atlantis. It's inspired by and sounds like the Roland SH-101, which BOC used extensively for their basslines and melodies.

around 1 min here:

and here:

But for effects, a Mimeophon does nice warm delays and pseudo verb, I'd recommend a Mutable rings to run audio into. I've created some really BOC-esque sounds by running drums into it and modulating the pitch/shape. Mutable's Clouds is no longer made, but I'd say get that or one of the newer clones like a Monsoon for granular processing/pitch shifting/general chaos.


Hello everyone,
New to eurorack, just planning my first synth. Please tell me everything wrong with this setup (which definitively would cost me a fortune).
I would keep Maths and Marbles (yes they are expensive but I want them in the rack).
What am I missing? Are there cheaper (and/or better) alternatives to modules I have selected?

alt text

Not sure how to post the preview of the rack... here is the link:
Rack

Thank you!
Ciao.


I also have this issue in Firefox... I came to the forums this morning to voice a complaint.

Mine seems like the cookie times out though. Like the next day I have to login again. The cookie keeps until I sleep my computer. The keep me logged in does nothing. Win10 Enterprise latest FF. I do run some extensions so I am going to do some testing disabling one at a time.


Ok guys, that certainly makes sense. I guess I asked the wrong questions then because yeah... I dont think I would want to completelyyyy create a polysynth from the whole way up for sure.

I like the idea of having something to run my hardware stuff into (or even coming out of my comp if need be), basically I guess what I was trying to ask/get some advice on IS and FX rack. Whenever I have fucked around on here doing some designs it seems that is actually more along the lines of what I have researched out a bit, seemingly mostly modulation/effects based modules as opposed to oscillators themselves from the ground up. I definitely dont have a laundry stash of cash kicking around... but I do want to slowly start dipping my feet into the eurowater here \m/

OK... soo... since you guys still know wayyyy more about actual modules that could be good id love to hear some ideas here... most of my guitar work and pedal preferences have always been based around reverb, chorus and delay pedals... ive messed around with Zvex's Lo-Fi Junky module a few times at a buddies, which is sort of the kind of tape/warble type situation i guess im looking for sound design wise in certain ways... And certainly I guess I would be running some samples through this beast. I am looking for something that I can use to make drone-y environments with those IDM sounds basically being the product in certain respects.

EDIT: I guess I should say, a very big thing that im inspired by across all synths and FX is the idea/ability to create sounds from randomness... so I guess thats something to consider as well for what Im thinking. I know there are a lot of wacky Mutable Instruments modules that may kind of help me out there that could be built into this FX rack?


You could do an FX rack and process one of your hardware/software synths through it. There's lots of really capable effects in eurorack and you can get creative with custom feedback loops and modulation without having to hook up a million different pedals. Like everyone else has said, eurorack is an expensive way to create a polysynth that's probably disadvantaged compared to regular polysynths, but sticking to FX, samples or monophony might scratch your itch for sound design.


Is it possible to create a polyphonic synth in Eurorack. Yes. But you're reinventing the wheel in the most expensive manner possible. When you stated "pads" and by listening to your examples... I heard polyphonic sounds. Each voice has its own filter, VCA, and other elements. You'd have to reconstruct that in Eurorack, piece for piece with addition modules to handle things like routing pitch and gate to available oscillators, VCAs (possibly filters) etc.

You can definitely use Eurorack modules as part of an effects chain that you plug your hardware synths into. That's not any major issue between converting line level (hardware synth output) to Eurorack level (a lot hotter than your hardware synth). There are ways to sync your hardware synth to Eurorack and then modulate things in relation to the sequence as well.

My big point is to see if you can get where you want to go out of what you have rather than trying to make it work in Eurorack... which isn't a good fit for what you're wanting to do... as far as I can tell. There are lots of reasons to get into Eurorack. But it's a MONEY PIT... a sweet money pit... but still a money pit.


Nope, Ronin's quite right here. Eurorack isn't the right thing for basic pads and the like. First of all, pads get you into the polyphonic end of the pool, and that's one area where Eurorack (or any other modular system) gets VERY spendy. You would need...

1) at least two VCOs per voice

2) a VCF per voice

3) a VCA per voice

4) a mixer module that can handle this properly

5) a polyphonic MIDI controller and a Eurorack MIDI interface that supports your needed voice count

6) all of the other stuff you'd need in the cab to support this.

Potentially, a few thousand dollars AT BEST for a very simple modular poly. Compare this with something like a Modal Argon 8, which comes in at $750 street and which is a far more capable polysynth than anything you could concoct in Eurorack without spending close to $10k or worse. Unless you have this sort of cash laying around in a collection of laundry hampers and bushel baskets, this isn't your best solution. Oh...and the space for this honker, too. Can't forget that...

A better solution for you, since you're clearly more accustomed to the software environment, would be VCV Rack. In it, you can actually assemble a modular polysynth (IF you have enough speed and processor capability!) and see what I'm talking about here. And ultimately, you're probably best tinkering with this QUITE a bit before pulling the trigger on any hardware; know your problem before trying to solve it!


But it is possible is it not? Ive messed around with my buddies rack which is mostly Make Noise modules and ive certainly found it to be capable of some cool sounds... obviously lots of wacky weird stuff like most racks, but I found that it was very interesting at the same time.

Yeah for sure ive got tons and tons of guitar pedals and a few decent hardware synths... I am just very intrigued by perpetually modifying and refining things until ive narrowed in on the ideal canvas of noise.


Eurorack isn't for you based on what you're describing. I would look for older, retro polysynths and guitar pedals. You're not going to do well creating pads in Eurorack on-the-cheap.


Hey guys and gals... so, im an in-the-box kind of guy for all my synths currently. I have tons and tons of experience using virtual synths and have a fairly specific style that I am after and would certainly love some advice/help in designing something to achieve the sounds im looking for with relative ease in a rack synth.

Ive designed a few racks on here before, many in my list but I am certainly unexperienced with actual physical modular gear.

Ostensibly I am looking for that Boards of Canada type sound, very 70's/80's sounding old VHS warbley atmospheric pads and leads... Sort of like these synths that I use heavily:

Amongst many others in my collection, but I think that comes across sound wise that I am looking to build. Mostly almost a midi controllable pad synth in a lot of ways. I am looking for it to be fairly simple for sure, (not horrendously expensive if I can manage it haha, I know modular gets ridiculously expensive from the couple I have mapped out) yet something that I can achieve a ton of different sounds along those lines.

Id love some help, and build ideas. Thanks a bunch.


ModularGrid Rack

This is my current rack. It's driven by an Analog 4. With four CV/ Gate/ Clocks via 2 Doepfer Buff mults in the low left side.
I see it as 2-4 voices. But I tend to us 1 or 2 at a time.
Out from the Doepfer Mini Stereo Mixer goes to the Analog 4 inputs usualy as 2 mono channels hard panned or sometimes direct to my Octatrack for looping.

Usual style is techno or more downtempo electronica.


Thanks Garfield for a nice comment!
And thank you Lugia for (as always) very interesting tips. I think these kind of modules are the stuff that I need but not are aware of. I will check Ladiks logic manuals and see how they can help me. I know my patches are very basic, but I learn along the way.


Thanks :)
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Thank you, will take a look and try.


A few other points, also...first up, you don't have enough sources that require stabilized CV for pitch, so the buffered mult is pretty useless here. Rule of thumb is that once you get beyond feeding three sources with the same CV, you'll want to buffer that to avoid CV sag and resulting tuning problems...but with what you have here, you won't need this. Just mult things out with inline mults or stackcables, and you'll be golden.

Now, having removed the buffered mult, you now have an 8 hp hole. So...try this: remove one of the Quad VCAs altogether. Then into the hole, put a Happy Nerding 3xVCA, and use this in THAT position for your CV/mod level control, and the remaining Quad VCA for your audio + mix to mono. This leaves a free 2 hp there in the second row (2hp DC-coupled mixer for CV/mod combination?), and 12 up top. My next move there would be to add one more device, something you can use as a doubler for one (or both) of the audio samplers. Like this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/flight-of-harmony-sound-of-shadows which is a delay line that would work great for doubling, plus it also offers an insert loop in the delay's feedback path for even more fun. It's sorta gritty, too...adds character, done right. That way, you don't have to tie up the Mimeophon for simple delays, making it more useful for global delays/loops.


Oooo...you might add something like this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-s-186-dual-delay or this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-s-090-dual-probability-skipper Both could be fun...the first would allow you to offset the timing of whatever was being clocked through it, letting you "slip" the other sequential parts. And the other would allow the sequencer to actually skip a pulse (or three) to let the sequencer fall off of whatever primary beat was underpinning things. Toss a delay line into this for audio strangeness, and you'd have something pretty nifty...and not for a whole lot, given how cheap the Ladik modules are.