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maybe with a zadar or dr phil ter, in a new thread, maybe in a couple months from now. im kind of obsessed with the idea of controlling 4 full voices from a brainstep in a not huge case. idk how im going to get over that to switch over to one or so fully sculpted voice, etc. thanks for commenting.

✌️
-- singular_sound

You don't really have to change the concept. The Demon Core isn't a trick. If you like it, you can totally get it and base your system around it. It even has the "gated" mode, so when you hit it with a note it will kind of automatically do the ADSR shape as indicated on the expander. With the Phil Ter, it'd be kinda like the Polymoog sound (think Gary Numan). It's not full subtractive polyphony but it does the thing. It's not the easiest way to learn modular synths, but it could be worse.

I know I'm walking into a trap here, and the joke will be all on me for getting involved, blah blah blah...but...

This is a (more or less) functional version of what you're talking about. It's just an example, and it's still a bit cramped, but hopefully this gives you an idea of how the things you mean to do can be accomplished in a way that does what you say while providing a number of musical options. I know you won't do anything with this information, but here it is, I guess. Enjoy your...concepts? If there are any specific choices you are curious about, just ask.

EDITED Tuesday November 19, 14:39

Is there a way to make it so it greys out all the other options if a manufacturer chooses "Blank panel" so you can't choose anything else when it is selected? I don't know the process for submitting modules.

You'd have a much easier time figuring those things out via experimenting with VCV Rack or something, as opposed to trying to bounce ideas off this forum more than occasionally or using AI to explain it.

Can you be more specific about the contributions you hope to make?

well, theres not really any point in anyone else posting in this thread, is there. ... ... ...

gnight yall. ✌️
-- singular_sound

Nope. Not really.

Do you already have any of these?

What was your plan for it when you got it?

EDITED Oct 10th, 00:11

If you want this all to have a certain rhythmic undercurrent, Pam's is probably the way to go. Also, a Toppobrillo Sport Modulator seems like it'd be a good calls for a noise/ambient case like this as well - lots of opportunities for going from modulation to audio rate oscillation and everywhere in between. I think it would fit this setup particularly well for how it can be both a self-contained drone synth in its own right as well as a toolbox for your modular setup.

An attenuverter or VCA would also be helpful here to give the textures even more movement and fill more space.

This is probably what I would do under those conditions to achieve what you're describing. You can fill up the Disting with samples and stuff before you go so there's plenty of extra drum options. Crust is also good because of the alternate firmwares. Both of those voices can cover a wide range and be more than just a single drum each with clever modulation. Veils is flexible and can be used for multiple things at once (like mixing two tracks of audio on one half and controlling modulation on the other half). Even if you take the Beatstep Pro, I think the Pam's, Tetrapad and Tete are unavoidable here. They seem to be most of your modulation and playability. If anything, the DFAM might be a better accompaniment for this than the Beatstep Pro, but it's all up to you.

EDITED Oct 2nd, 07:24

The Nerdseq also has extensive Launchpad integration for a variety of functions, making it a lot more hands-on than it seems at first.

How are you sequencing your other stuff? If your setup has a clock/sync output or CV/Gate outputs, this may be enough to just run them side by side.

I have used 2hp modules before. I still have the Mix. Frankly, though, for this amount of money, I would say to not put a bunch of them in. They wiggle even if they're built rock solid, amd the knobs are not fun. If you decide later you need some function they provide and have to have it in 2hp, then go for it.

2hp Hat - You can probably skip this. You have noise in your setup. Patch the noise to a VCA/low pass gate/filter and ping the CV input/send it short envelopes. This is also sort of my advice about the Queen of Pentacles. If you try it and like it, then go with it (the filter and effects alone might bw able to help the modulation problem and give it some life). Whether you like the Queen of Pentacles or not, however, modular presents a great opportunity to synthesize unique percussion using the exact same tools you make synths with, as well as an opportunity to blur the lines between melody and percussion. The more you play with this system, the further away you'll get from assigning things standard roles like "drum/bass/lead".

2hp Euclid: Pam's has you covered here, I think. Plus the Oxi One.

2hp Arp: Another one where your sequencing hardware has you covered, but you've also got those quantizers to turn any modulation into an arp. A quantizer is almost always better for in-rack than an arpeggiator.

2hp TM: If you can make room for it I would 100% recommend the After Later Audio Alan instead.

Once you have a Rample and a 2hp Play, I can't help but think you should just try a Bitbox or a Squid Salmple - especially if you're also worried about the Queen of Pentacles and the SD card on the back. Maybe that's just me. Vocal one shots and all that can also be a 505 thing, but I'll leave that up to you. You can also look into CV to MIDI converters like the Befaco CV Thing or the Sweet 16 faderbank (a great multi-function module in general, albeit a big one) to allow you to send modular signals to non-modular gear like samplers and control their MIDI ccs for that modular sampling vibe. Sampling in Eurorack can be great, but this process will definitely help you decide what you want to do in rack or out of rack and where each task suits your needs, and you may find one of these options more suitable. I wanted to make a Eurorack sampler for a long time until I thought about it and realized that my Polyend Tracker and SP404 would let me put a sample anywhere I wanted in most ways I would want, and that unique but purposeful sample placement was easier to do there anyway.

The 2hp Pluck is admittedly hard to replace this way. There's always Rings or the QuBit Surface, but those are definitely bigger. People do like the Pluck.

There is one kind of 2hp module that I always suggest to people: passive low pass gates. I have the Takaab and Meng Qi brand ones and they are great for setting up quick and simple percussion out of any sound you throw at them, or just having extra signal paths for your oscillators that give them a unique character.

Overall, this seems pretty balanced. Usually imagined systems this big are a bit of a mess. More modulation is nice, so if you expand, definitely look there first.

The benefit of adding to a semi-modular synth is that you've already got a solid base to start from. In this sense, you're not too limited by order of module purchase. The main thing I would say is to just focus on what you want the most in here and then space out the voice/effects purchases as much as possible so you've always got a good balance of sounds to modulation/utilities. Pam's is an obvious pick for one of the first modules, since it is a compact way to explore a lot of this stuff and will help organize future purchases. Same with the Quad VCA, which you will find immediate use for (especially as a way of manipulating modulation from Pam's in a tactice way).

I probably wouldn't have the MIDI module right on the side - I'd move it somewhere else and put something there that I fiddle with a lot. Go with what works, though. You'd know better than me about that at this point.

EDITED Aug 21st, 19:42

I don't think they meant that without utilities and modulation, you wouldn't be enough to make good sounds. The Atlantix can totally function on its own as a synth voice sequenced by the Metropolix and be patched and repatched to do crazy stuff. However, things like

• free-running LFOs and function generators with loopable envelopes that let your sounds get off the grid
• VCAs for controlling levels of not just audio, but also CV to make things extra dynamic
• envelope followers to have very specific experiments in modulation shape
• switches of various kinds to move and route signals in unique ways
• clock dividers to give more varied timing events in your setup

...are very simple circuits in the vein of classic modular, but they will make your one synth voice suddenly feel like a massive environment that is constantly evolving. There are obviously so many other random things I can't get into here because it would take too long, but these little things are where the fun it. Atlantix has the sample and hold, noise, rimg mod, and lots of cool stuff if you want to start here and get comfortable, but that's only the beginning.

I would recommend looking at these modules: Make Noise Maths, Make Noise Function, Divkid Ochd, Doepfer Octal Linear VCA. You don't have to buy them to get going (or at all), and this stuff you have in the picture here would be a good start while you ponder what else you might want, but at least look at these modules as stuff your module doesn't have that might complement it well.

You may want to consider getting the Metropolix Solo, where it has its own case with MIDI in and out. This will free up space in your rack to have other cool stuff without anything being too cramped.

Do you already own any of this?

I wouldn't add more voices. More modulation and VCAs, probably. Maybe something like a WORNG Vector Space or something like that where it makes a lot of modulation out of a couple sources. A matrix mixer is good for that, too - you can mix different CV and audio sources to make unique shapes and adjust them on the fly. It seems pretty complete to me, otherwise.

Was there something specific you wanted it to do? It might actually help if you're specific about which parts work less for you.

Do you mean that you use the Octatrack/Rytm to generate samples and modify input, right? Just confirmimg that this rack is primarily being used to make synth sounds (aside from the Sample Drum).

EDITED Aug 6th, 18:09

Spring reverb is always nice in a hardware effects setup. Doepfer has a nice simple one.

You could also just get a Finegear Dust Collector to go with the rack, but that might be a little overboard.

Another option is a Poly Hector. It has Rings and Clouds in it plus a lot of basic effects, modulation, and routing tools that would take a lot of space in another rack. It's a touch screen, but it has a very effective interface that makes it easy to tweak and adjust.

EDITED Aug 2nd, 00:04

You would just go looking for a 10 pin to 16 pin Eurorack ribbon cable. I find this is actually the ribbon cable I run into most - more than 16 to 16, at least. When you buy more modules that are not standalone, they'll often come with this cable, and it will occasionally already be plugged in.

Do you plan to use this entirely on its own or with other gear?

Theoretically it should be fine. It's a lot of voices at once, but that could be good for layering or audio rate modulation or something.

Do you already own all these?

One big button that says "Push here for Talent"
-- wishbonebrewery

I believe they call this "generative music".

I should say that I double-checked and the Sweet Sixteen does not have MIDI in, so I was incorrect about MIDI to CV conversion. However, you seem to have that covered already, and this would allow you to go the other way - convert CV to MIDI to control CCs on your other stuff with your modules (might be good for some of the stuff on the TR-8S that's in menus). I just wanted to correct myself and not have you make a decision based on my mistake.

edit: turns out I mentioned MIDI to CV conversion somewhere else. Still good to point out.

EDITED Jul 1st, 00:21

What you want is the Sweet Sixteen fader bank (which I seem to be bringing up a lot lately). It's an adaptation of this open source module concept, but it also has inputs in addition to outputs, allowing it to do the purely CV-based attenuation you want.

EDITED Jun 30th, 22:17

A Sweet Sixteen might be good. 16 faders that can be used for attenuation, offset generation, MIDI control or I2C connection. I do not have one, but it's what I want to fill the space in my rack.

Even if you just see it as 16 attenuators/offset generators, it's a pretty useful tool for centralizing control in a big rack like this. You could then throw in something like a DistingEX, which is normally not very hands-on but has lots of useful effects algorithms and utilities (among other things like sample playback and polyphonic synths), and control the EX with I2C/MIDI to have hands-on access to multiple parameters without menu-diving.

I'm not sure if you wanted that kind of control or maybe a different kind like a touch keyboard, but for the space we're talking about I think this kind of control will be more usable in the rack, whereas that problem is better solved externally so you have space for your fingers to actually do stuff.

Are you still doing a third row?

If you do a third row, it should be entirely utilities/modulation/VCAs/attenuverting. Maths is a good one (though it's not a VCA). Free-running LFOs, envelope generators, sample and holds, random modules, and more will give you interesting freeform contrast to the more steady rhythms from the sequencers. These are all cool sound sources, and if you perform with an Analog Rytm and/or Syntakt as well, this should just about work, but you need more stuff to make it all move. More than anything else, moving voices and sounds around freely and uniquely with modulation is what makes modular sound special relative to regular complete synths and grooveboxes.

I would also take a look at bigger, more playable filters. Big cutoff knobs. Or at least put those near the ends so they're easily accessible.

You don't need dedicated drum modules unless there's a specific one that does something you love and can't do any other way. The BIA is actually a good one for a tightly packed case like this since it basically operates standalone and is very flexible, doing way more than just standard drum sounds. Generally, though, it is just as easy to make drums from a basic synth setup (oscillator into VCA/filter opened and closed by an envelop or other CV) as it is to make a synth sound with them, and modulation/clever patching can help you blur the line in unique ways. You can even get a matrix mixer to help you smoothly move and combine modulation in your rack to change stuff from melodic to percussive.

EDITED Jun 22nd, 21:25

VCAs, attenuverters, and more modulation. Preferably with knobs that you'll enjoy using.

There seems to be three goals going on here at once:

1. Play saxophone through modular tools and effects to alter its sound.
2. Play saxophone and have it trigger samples and synth sounds in the rack.
3. Play saxophone alongside synths and samples being triggered/played by the rack itself.

If your goal is to do all three of these, I would focus the first row (at least) that you try to put together entirely on goal 1. The Minibrute 2S can cover sounds for now, and I can't imagine you not having another easier way to do samples for now. For now, think about a) getting the sax sound into the modular in a way that sounds acceptable to you and b) modulation. The last one is the main thing missing here: the main reason to do this instead of pedals is the way modulation moves and shapes the sounds in unque ways. I would save extra synth voices and samplers for later and just focus on getting the sax and Minibrute 2S to play together. As for input, also think about emvelope following - turning the amplitude of your sax signal into modulation is a huge part of the potential fun here.

This one has some promising elements. The Barback and Knit are probably unnecessary, but could come in handy for later. Instead, that space might be better served by a Maths, a quad/multi VCA and attenuator, some logic stuff, a mult - the stuff that sounds boring but kind of makes systems workable and flexible. You also may want to look into something to convert modular voltages so they're safe for pedal expression inputs - if you already have pedals, there are many ways to bring them in on the fun here.

I saw you put the Meta-Module in there. Have you tried this concept in VCV Rack yet? Or even with an Empress Zoia or Poly Effects Beebo? Not necessarily as an alternative, but even just as a place to demo patches/module concepts, experiment with them, and potentially cover some ground that would be difficult and expensive in modular (that met. Especially since you'll be busy playing saxophone and not turning knobs as much. I had a Beebo and not only does it have a lot of ports of Mutable Instruments stuff like Plaits, Rings, Marbles (all stuff you have here), but you can use it as a MIDI controller to send Eurorack-style modulations to different MIDI CCs on stuff you may already have.

The Nerdseq. It turned my modular stuff into a proper setup rather than just a collection of bits I liked, but it did so without making my music too unnecessarily normal.

https://modulargrid.net/e/addac-system-addac301-floor-control-black-panel

This and an expression pedal.

May I ask about your experience with Black Noise Cosmos? Im very interested in this kind of modules. I also consider Ana 2 from mystic circuits. Could you tell me soemthing more about its use and benefits?
Right now I use Pamelas Pro Workout for logic stuff, but Cosmos and Ana seem to be very cool.
Im wondering, how something like a Cosmos could expand my possibilities? (In Pams you can also dial in specific logic operations and apply it on the inputs + add more operations with the cross channels)
Maybe there are some cheaper 1u alternatives?
-- VONDENFUNKEN

I don't yet own a Cosmos. I've watched the Stazma video and read the manual a few times. I would say I just kind of liked the mystery of it at first and then started thinking of it as a smaller way to get what I wanted from the WORNG Vector Space (I might still go this route instead, because it's like half the price) or the Mannequins Cold Mac (I gave up oj this when I realized how difficult acquiring one of these would be without some sort of crime): a way to get a lot of related modulation in a small space from a couple sources. The Ana 2 would probably work as well for this sort of thing, and has the benefit of knobs, but I personally don't mind big dense patches full of cables and like the patching process, so the Cosmos appeals to me in that way as well (plus the touchplates seem fun) All three seem like an inviting way for someone (like me) to teach themselves more about these functions and what they do musically. I don't have a 1U strip on any of my cases and tend not to think about that - someone else would have to speak on that. I mainly recommended the Cosmos here because it's a cool module that comes on DIY format and would probably suit a classic rack like this that uses simple tools well.

EDITED May 28th, 08:48

I wouldn't call it cheap, but the Black Noise Cosmos would fill that 12hp right up and comes in a DIY kit. It's sort of an endless patching wormhole/analog computer thing like Maths or the Serge world. If you like eclectic and unique concepts like the NLC modules, it is an option.

If that doesn't suit you, I second the matrix mixer, but if I were you, I would only get the AI Synthesis one if it's going to be in the top corners or if you plan to arrange it upside down. Otherwise it'll just be buried behind two rows of cables.

One thing worth considering here is a) a matrix mixer and b) some kind of switch setup like the Doepfer A-182-2. They'll help you facilitate changes in your setup without having to do a lot of repatching (I like repatching, but it ian't always convenient).

A Pip Slope or other small and simple envelope generator is not a bad idea - Maths is good for envelopes, but if you have the space it's nice to delegate such mundane duties to other modules. You can also take the envelopes from the Mother-32 and use them for other stuff as well.

As for VCAs, you're fortunate here in that the Moog synths, the QPAS, and the Plaits all have their own built-in VCAs, meaning that the practical aspect of them isn't a huge deal here. The STO doesn't, but that's fine - you can always find one for it out of what's already here, or you can even use it as an audio rate modulation source to get different FM sounds with your other oscillators.

The Optomix is not just a VCA but a low pass gate, so it combines VCA and subtle low pass filtering to give audio a specific character based on how natural acoustic sounds work (as they get louder, they get brighter). If you wanted to explore this in a cheaper form, some of the best cheap small modules available are the Takaab 2LPG passive low pass gates, one of the only 2hp modules that works fine aside from mults. Not only are they great for audio and CV, but they have a switch so you can control how much filtering they do and use them as a plain VCA if needed. However, the Optomix is a nice module with nice knobs, so if you want to throw money at this particular concept it's a good choice.

With what you have here, I'd mainly be thinking about VCAs for modulation (you can't go wrong with a Doepfer 130-8) as well as some kind of attenuverter/offset module like the Tiptop Miso, Frap Tools 321, or Happy Nerding 3x MIA. If you're not sure what you want from all these different VCA/attenuverter options, a good choice might be an After Later Audio Cloaks or an Intellijel Quad VCA, because they have lots of options to use them as variations of all these things so you can figure out what makes the most sense (switching between unipolar and bipolar, switching between linear and exponential, etc). While the Tangle Quartet is good (people say it is very high quality), it may also be worth looking into one that switches between linear and exponential, because it's hard to get a feel for why that matters based on description alone. It's up to you.

Basically, all of this seems fine to me in terms of basic building blocks, but now you need to think about quality of life modules to make this stuff as easy to use as possible.

How do you imagine all these extra parts being sequenced/played? A Keystep 37 probably won't be enough even if the Moogs sequence themselves. If your goal is to experiment with generative and uncontrolled stuff, you may want to look into quantizers. That way you can take any modulation of any kind and turn it into a melodic phrase by having the quantizer turn it into 1 volt per octave signals. Throw in some gates/triggers from a different source (Pam's, Maths, etc) and suddenly anything in your setup is a source of unique melodies and arpeggiations. Pam's does quantization if I recall, but there are other options if you want to free it up. Splitting your note/pitch events and timing/trigger/gate events in this way is probably always going to be the best way to use your modular's generative composition possibilities to their fullest extent without feeling too much like you're not doing anything.

I say they're welcome to boss you around on how to use and rack them as long as they buy them for you as well.

A Disting EX. You'll never get bored, you'll have multiple ways of playing polyphony and you'll have tons of space and tools to do other stuff as well. Get it even if you still get the Coral.

Are these modules you use and own already? It's a lot of voices for one setup, but with ambient I understand there can be specific workflows people develop.

I dont know. I would ditch the ochd. Case has 2 lfo's.
Also for ambient u'd want a reverb. not sure if nautilus can do that? (or any other module for that matter)
Where are the envelopes? (guess pams?) I see very little modulation options here.
-- Chrissozz

Why ditch the ochd, then?

EDITED May 11th, 21:49

i just like how datach'i s case works on system and how its one instrument, and also, the physicality.

-- singular_sound

How would you say it works?

hey zachsname: what if 'momentum dies while menu diving on a pam pro to sequence some random bs' is a super aesthetic sound that no one has ever tried before, huh?

p e a c e . . . .
-- singular_sound

In a way, your humor is not even really being done with yourself as the audience. You just kind of seem to be using it to dive headfirst into the void by choice, leaving everyone and everything else behind. Whoever it is you resent here, I hope you won't let them get in the way of your work and your music. You're clearly interested enough to get here and do all this.

I think you'll have better luck sticking to the DAWs to find your signature sound based on the descriptions you've given me, and that further experimentation will help you build more "aesthetic" designs that both work better and are less chaotic to whoever sees them. Definitely check out VCV Rack, where you can not only build these fantasy systems, but also patch with them and make songs and show off your jams to people. Not everything on VCV Rack has a real life counterpart, but it will be more helpful than just sort of guessing what you might enjoy from research alone.

Do you have any music you've done with other stuff so far?

Yes. All of that will theoretically work to make your idea more intelligible, but it will also render portions of this setup redundant. It doesn't really make this design of self-contained cases make more sense, but just introduces extra steps to your workflow. Inefficiency can't really be justified as "maximalism" - you should get more from more, not less.

You have definitely been uninspired.

I just have individual 3U cases I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, but I play a lot with other people and keeping my case setup small helps me stay creative and engaged while not hogging up too much space for others to play in.

One is a "dedicated sequencing rack" for my Nerdseq and one is just Buchla Tiptop modules supported with a couple utilites in a Niftycase (this normally sits with my non-modular gear). I also have semi-modulars added to this and a Microfreak nearby to play CV and Gate into synths as well (and just because it's awesome for layering on top). I want to get one more 104 (or even 126) hp rack for random stuff I want to try (though this has sort of accidentally laid itself out as a monosynth that I could also take out and use separately). This all sounds chaotic, but it's actually working quite well for me, and once it's set up all together it's not much different from just having a Mantis on the table. When I go out I just unplug the piece I need. It seems scatterbrained from the outside, but if I had everything in one case, it would be harder for me to scale up or down as needed. Also, I don't really want to expand much further than that - it's already quite a bit for two hands, especially when one of my semi-modular units is a big Finegear Dust Collector that I would keep before any of it. I feel like anything else I do would just be starting an entirely different setup, and two is plenty. I still have a Polyend Tracker/TX81Z based setup and a DAW as well, and I can't do everything.

I wouldn't necessarily present to people what I've done as advice, but I would present it as an example of trusting yourself to know what you need and what produces good habits for you.

EDITED May 11th, 17:01

There's already a section for fantasy cases on Modulargrid. Just click the My Modular tab and design away. This is the forum. Here, your fantasy meets reality (or at least the fantasies of others).

What do you plan on buying first?

there, i stayed up all night, and designed a second completely self contained 12u 84hp system, just to make you happy, zachsname.

do you like it better? is it modular enough, now? too many oscillators, eh? eh? eh? eh?

just give me some honest feedback, on just the design.

(its more modest, now. better?)

peace.

peace.

peace.
-- singular_sound

there, i stayed up all night, and designed a second completely self contained 12u 84hp system, just to make you happy, zachsname.

do you like it better? is it modular enough, now? too many oscillators, eh? eh? eh? eh?

just give me some honest feedback, on just the design.

(its more modest, now. better?)

peace.

peace.

peace.
-- singular_sound

The third row is the closest thing to an effective and efficient instrument I've seen so far. If you waited on getting the filter and Opp Ned and replaced them with a Maths, you could start with that row and learn pretty much everything you need to make and plan a big system that makes sense. Two Plasma Voices is also a lot, but that is a much better idea of what kinds of maximalism are available, and they do have built-in synth tools that make them super helpful in a smaller space, so I say go for it on those.

I wouldn't start with Datach'i's hardware when looking at their work for inspiration. I would look at his history and productivity. He was a professional musician long before modern modular became big and these setups became possible. Richard Devine's setup that he used when I saw him live is another good example. I was able to find it on here (like I was able to do with Datach'i's setup), and they both have unique setups heavy on percussion and pings and short triggered sounds in ways that don't rely as much on modulation like envelopes. However, these people have workflows and styles unique to them from working with hardware and software over the years and delivering results according to their specific vision. Most of the stuff in their current Eurorack setups hasn't even been around for more half the time they've been working. They already knew what all this stuff was before it was even designed. It's not really fair to yourself to look at someone like Datach'i and think your system should be comparable now. You need to learn what you need before setting yourself up with those kinds of expectations, and starting with the basics so you know the parameters will help you design unique systems with greater efficiency and accuracy. Your music and what it needs to be is more important than any design.

I imagine the Junkie XL comment is a joke, but remember that his giant wall is a 5U setup and based very much on the kinds of standard modular stuff missing in this setup. I'm not exactly a huge fan of his style (nor do I need to be as long as he doesn't do anything so bad it ruins the movie for me), but he is extremely educated and practical when it comes to owning a giant wall of noise machines. Hans Zimmer is the same - when it's not softsynths, it's usually something fairly oldschool and simple in terms of design. Their big systems are rhe opposite of yours (and that may not be a bad thing - they are the opposite of Datach'i amd Devine as well).

If anything, this is what everyone is trying to get at here with you: the best path to a big modular setups is to find a place in your existing music making system that modular can contribute to and then see how much more modular infects your life from there. Let the virus spread naturally, and don't worry about "design" - worry about playing music.

I don't know where the joke begins and ends with this post exactly, so I'll just say that it's usually a bad sign for your joke when you are consistently telling people it's a joke. That might just be you telling yourself that it is a joke, which is probably not convincing for either of us.

Albert Ayler is certainly not everybody's thing, nor does he need to be. I'm glad you took a look and I hope you at least understood what I meant about how much comes from simple sounds being well modulated. In the end, these are just oscillators, samples, and drum machines like any other electronic instruments - it's the workflow and design for each voice that makes it.

I do understand how the Tukra works, but the fact that it's a sound source makes it more of a liability in the small rack you posted (unless you just ditch the other oscillators entirely until the case expands). In a bigger setup this changes, and it's not a bad start at all if it's what you really want, but when you've only got a bit of stuff at the beginning it won't be as much of a team player as it could be if there's also oscillators to manage (though the Doepfer mino synth does make a cool modulation hub if you abuse it like modular is meant to be abused). A modular drum machine setup focused solely on facilitating and manipulating the Tukra would be a great start and could probably get that first hour of music going pretty soon.

I'm not engaging with your concept because it's too theoretical. It's not that a big system like this is bad, but no one can know what it needs to be at this stage when you haven't yet explored what it is and what it accomplishes. Spend a month with something like that Taiga on its own and you'll find it can fill out entire tracks on its own. You'll probably get your 60+ hours of music a lot easier from thinking in terms of one thing at a time, spending time with each stage of your modular setup and using the little nooks and crannies in it to fuel your inspiration rather. If you somehow got rich and just got it all at once and had to sit with all the possibilities and decide where to start, I doubt it would be as productive. Your concept, aside from the idea of a big system, which is good but best done gradually and through trial and error, seems to just be "what if I could get the analysis paralysis of a DAW in physical hardware?" Staying focused is the only way to keep modular from being an expensive chore rather than good, useful fun.

im thinking: program the bass line 1h at a time on the nerdseq (plus whatever live options it has available, if any) then draw in a base drumline, then either use a keystep pro or any of the sequencing and arpeggiation options available to build the main melody, then add extra drums and melody on the tukra and rene, clocking everything to the tukra, then fill in a ton of extra cv mod texture, then build an effects chain, then have 5 pre loaded samples to trigger stretch or reverse at any time, then some 'extra magic', then record. now that you know the whole concept do you think it makes more sense now? peace.
-- singular_sound

The one thing you'll learn in modular synthesis is that the line between bass, lead, drum, and pad is relatively arbitrary. The more you break down sounds to their base elements and the circuits that make them up, the more you'll have ideas that are just about sounds and how they're made. Theoretically, this is all fine, and what you're describing is a bit vague but definitely workable, but you'll be surprised at how differently you see these elements when you're working with them vs when you're imagining them from the perspective of a more typical workflow.

Also, the way you've talked about this leads me to believe that, if you plan to start with a voice and a sequencer, you should probably go with the Nerdseq first rather than the Tukra, because you'll be able to do a lot of the stuff you're describing in this big setup using just the Nerdseq and a few well-chosen modules for a voice. When I first got mine, I tested it with just a Moog Mavis, a 2hp MMF, and a power supply with a built-in mult, and I got a ton out of that. You don't need 8 voices to make it count - the outputs and inputs are freely assignable and the ungodly amount of features makes it good for supercharging a Eurorack voice or two. It is also more live-friendly than it seems, especially since it has extensive integration with Launchpads, allowing you to do a variety of fun things and basically turning it into something like an Ableton workflow, but in hardware. It will probably be the best way for you to determine if you want to manage and maintain a larger Eurorack environment as opposed to having the modular just be an instrument in a broader context or a solo instrument like violin or whatever. Obviously, I'm just one guy, though - be careful before you start throwing Nerdseq money around.

If anything, I think your setup would be bigger if you had all these modules, because the real juice comes from modulating and manipulating voices and sounds with control voltage and routing the signals creatively more than methodically layering and combining lots of voices (which is kind of better left to non-Eurorack hardware). Think of a jazz trio - a bass, saxophone, and drums. Despite only two mostly monophonic melodic voices (with some opportunities to do chords or whatever) and and a few drum sounds, the possibilities are immense because of how much they can manipulate timbre with their playing. Albert Ayler's Spiritual Unity is a pretty good way of demonstrating what I mean - that music is massive despite being basic instruments available in reasonably well-stocked high schools. That level of flexibility per voice is what makes modular special relative to other formats despite essentially making the same sounds as any other interface with the same circuits inside of it, but it comes from modulation and utilities. LFOs, envelopes, VCAs, mults, CV mixers, clock dividers, sample and hold, switches, etc. - the boring stuff that was pretty much already figured out by the 1970s.

For example, the small system you made has two sound sources (three if I'm being picky, but I won't count the Tukra). One does include its own support modules, but that will just get you to the point of making regular synth sounds. When you consider that the Tukra only sequences gates and you still have to get notes into the thing, you'd probably do well to stick to a general "one sound source per row" rule and go from there. Theoretically, if you said "I want to get a setup with at least two synth sources and some unique sequencing/drum options", I would recommend a Syntakt or Analog Rytm before this modular setup, and you'd make the same sounds better and more conveniently.

Instead, my advice for your first modular setup is to go the other way and just think "what is the most badass single voice I can come up with?", and maybe add that onto the Tukra for a cool start. You can even use the Pam's to quantize modulation from weird modules and create generative melodies, so maybe keep Pam's if you're going to start with a pure gate sequencer like this - it will help cover for it and integrate it into a less rigid framework well. After you have a full, tricked out single voice figured out, the setup ideas will just be flowing and it will be easier to make it more expansive and nebulous.

Also, if you need 104 HP for your first rack, go for it. I just kinda said 84, but a Mantis case could be wise if you know you want to do this stuff.

As a live setup, this is just too much. There is a pageantry to a big setup when you're onstage, but one 12U case (or, frankly, 6U case) is already quite a bit of stuff when you only have two hands. This is enough to keep 4 different people stressing out to keep track of everything.

As a studio hub for experimenting or just general production work, things obviously change a bit. However, the big systems that people like Red Means Recording use to make professional sounding and well-thought out music like you could get from a DAW (or at least be able to keep and use the results as if it werw that kind of music) are built piece by piece. If you're on a budget, not being too tied to a specific plan where every piece is interdependent is best - go where the deals are.

Let me ask you this: roughly speaking, if you had to describe each of these cases succinctly as "the (blank) case", what would each one be? For example, "the Buchla case", or "the sampling case", or "the techno case" (though, if this describes all four, maybe don't pick that).

edit: Sorry - I posted this without seeing your new post.

EDITED May 11th, 00:19

This is a fun way to brainstorm, but a system this size will never work exactly as you plan it, so judging it overall at this stage isn't going to do much. This will be a lot easier if you plan in chunks and adjust as you go along (as I assume you already know you'll be doing). Start with one bit at a time.

What are your favorite options here in terms of modules? If you could only start with 84hp, what would you pick?

If this is a bit and I'm missing it, I apologize.