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Hi :)
I am contemplating using a basic VCO to design my own kicks.
I am making mainly techno/dub techno/electro.
I am using a Michigan Synth SY0.5 and/or a MI Plaits to design my kicks and other hats/claps/percs.
Yet I am looking into more options for designing my kicks mainly. I am happy with Plaits and SY0.5 (or sometimes samples) for various other perc elements (hats/claps/perc).
I understand that using a basic VCO with various waveforms would also require a mixer (to eventually mix the various waveshapes), some EG (preferably ASR or ADSR) and some VCAs.
- I have a PipSlope Mk2, a Doepfer A-140 (ADSR with a Retrig input which can be interesting for adding some variation as well as an inverted out) and a XAOC Zadar for EGs.
- I also have a basic VCA (Doepfer A130-2)
I would need:
1) A basic mixer: would a Doepfer A-138n (basic 4 inputs) be good enough or a mixer/polarizer (more sound design options) like a Doepfer A-138j would be better?
2) A basic VCO: what should I look into? Bear in mind that this VCO would be used mainly for this purpose. Now I could also use it for other purposes :)
NOTE:
1) I am limited by space (as ever...).
2) I do processing outside my eurorack, therefore compression and saturation are not considered.
Any advice would be gladly appreciated.
Best,
L

Hi :)
I am using various solutions to design my kicks:
1) Michigan Synth SY0.5
2) MI Plaits
3) Sometimes using samples but I am not convinced anymore :)
Nevertheless, I am still pursuing the best solution to design my kicks as ready made ones (macro oscillators or other dedicated kick modules) do not offer as much sound design possibilities.
I have been gathering info from YT and I come to the conclusion that I am more enclined to use a basic VCO with various waveforms, an EG (ADSR or ASR) and a VCA to yeld the results I am aiming at.
Here are a couple of resourceful videos in case it can help:
- The Modular Spaghetti Solutions - Making a Eurorack modular Techno kick drum with an envelope generator. No VCA needed
- Sinus - Tech Talk 004 Make Your Own Kickdrum In Eurorack Pure Analog Deep Full Live Patching
- Thomann - How to create the perfect kick drum | Lets Patch | Thomann
- DJ TechTools - How To Make An Analog Kick with Tobi Neumann
- Voltage Control Lab - Eurorack Modular Kick Drum Tutorial
- Stazma - Analog Kick Drum tutorial: Stazma Modular Tips & Tricks

I am also considering the WMD MSCL. What would the pros/cons be of module vs external?

oh my! That would be verry bold!

The side chain idea...is that a type of "ducking"?
-- Jukeshoe

It's frequently used like that, yes. Suppose you have a bass line and a kick drum. If you sidechain compress the bass against the kick, the bass will typically duck when the kick hits.

EDITED Dec 13th 2023, 19:30

I just got the ES-9 Eurorack Audio + CV Interface - can I just use it to mix inline and use the audio ins and out without going to the iPad - as in like in inline Mixer module - or is the entire purpose to use the ES-9 to get audio out as an audio interface?

-- Gonkeroo

There is a mixer built into the ES-9 that would allow you to do that. But it's really hard to understand how to configure it. And the most obvious way to control it is via a web interface on a computer, which is cumbersome. Also, it's not a live mixer where you can move a slider and it takes effect immediately: you change the settings, then you upload it to the ES-9 to take effect. So while possible in theory, I would strongly advise against it!

EDITED Dec 13th 2023, 19:29

Maybe a red one too ;-)

the only thing missing is silver modules :D

Muddiness usually occurs in a mix when there are multiple lower frequencies, these tend to clash more than higher frequencies.
Do you have drums and/or multiple voices in you system that you use as bass sounds?
There are a couple of things you can try here:
- Narrow down the deep bass voices to one at a time, or mix them in one by one to see when it starts to sound muddy
- If you use multiple voices/drums in the lower frequencies, use highpass filters to filter out the lowest colliding frequencies
- Create a sidechain with you kick and bass: mult the trigger signal that triggers the kick to a AD/AR envelope, invert this envelope and set the offset to +5V, so that when the envelope is triggered the signal is moved from +5V to 0V and back. Patch the bass voice into a VCA with the CV controlled by the inverted/offset envelope, and patch this to the mix output. Now the bass gets "silenced" when the kick hits, creating a more clean mix
- Use two separate mixer modules (doesn't have to be a mixer as a lot of modules can mix signals among doing other things, MN Maths for example) and mix on your PC, as you usually have more options in a DAW for equalizing and to see at what frequency the issue occurs. Something like Expert Sleepers ES8 can work as well, you can send your separate sounds to the ES8 and mix them in a DAW.

Like mentioned in the posts above, it can also be that there's an issue with the loudness of the output from your eurorack, as these are generally way louder than normal synth/instrument volume levels. Try to decrease the volume output of your eurorack to see it if sounds less muddy.

Good luck!
-- deurstopjoris

Tons of good info here, thanks!

The side chain idea...is that a type of "ducking"?

wmd mscl?

I need help with compressor options. I'm mainly looking for sidechain compression for drums. I can't decide whether to go with something like God's Box Lollipop and keep it modular, or use my ADDAC200PI to go through an external pedal like the FMR RNC or Rainger FX Deep Space Pulsar. Any opinions or other options?

Hello everybody,

Almost one year later I must say that I fell completly in love with modular! Love the experimentation and the great sounds I can produce with it. I now have two cases one studio case and one batery powered field case (that I love to take with me into nature). Still making dark ambiant soundscapes with drones, feedback patching, fieldrecordings (that I loop, sample and proces within the modular). Lately I am in to experimenting with building chaotic generative patches. I would realy apreciate comments, sugestion's and tips for my current setup, patching and future purchases.

Thanx in advance and keep patching!

Here is my current setup:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2423083.jpg

Bought a Mutable Clouds here because I never owned one. What an amazing module.

EDITED Dec 12th 2023, 20:23

Great tips from Joris above. I'm using an ES-9 myself (kinda like a big ES-8) to send all my channels separately to my iPad. I guess you can do the same on a PC/mac. Put each in a channel strip, then add any EQ or sidechain compression you like. I worked with a basic Ladik mixer and Befaco out before, but when I finally switched to AUM (audio mixer on iPad), it was a revelation. The ES-9 also has outs, so I send the mix back from iPad to the ES-9 where I can send it out to speakers or headphone. Having every channel in a channel strip setup also allows me to add a few effects when I run out of effect modules
-- Arrandan

I just got the ES-9 Eurorack Audio + CV Interface - can I just use it to mix inline and use the audio ins and out without going to the iPad - as in like in inline Mixer module - or is the entire purpose to use the ES-9 to get audio out as an audio interface?

Just wanted to let you know that it was a real pleasure to make a swap with @rlanguillat.
Contact was swift, communicatoion really good and I would recommend this guy to anyone.

I keep four different things in mind when I chose what modules to buy, in no particular order:
1: Budget. I maintain a list of modules I want and I kept an eye out for sales, marketplace , Reverb, Ebay, etc. When I come across a good deal on a module I know I will use I try and jump on the good price if I can.

2: Rarity. Some modules are hard to get because they aren't made anymore. If you want one of of those you're at the mercy of the market. When one pops up for sale that might be a rare opportunity to get it when perhaps later on you might not be able to find one for sale at any price. On the other hand, many rare modules are overpriced, sometimes very much so. So this is a balancing act. Overspending on rare modules is a poor idea, especially if you are new. But if you find a rare module that you know you will use and it's a great price? That is something to jump on even if you can't use it right away.

3: Usefulness. This was especially important when I was starting out. Some modules, say a sequencer or logic, are useless by themselves, but others have at least limited functions by themselves--you can play a little bit with an oscillator or a resonant filter, for example. Some modules like complex oscillators with built-in modulation and "voices" can do a lot on their own, if your planned rack includes any of those you might want to prioritize them when you start. This changes as your rack grows though. A sequencer with no oscillators is useless, but once you have one or more oscillators now a sequencer becomes useful. I think uselfuless also applies to any weak points in your system. When you're just starting out everything is a weak point. But before too long you will idenitify specific needs. Right now my biggest need is envelopes, so that's what I'm planning to buy next. I often ask myself the question: "I've got $X to spend. What module(s) can I get for that which will add the most functionality to my rack?".

4: Balance of utility & fun/inspiration. Some modules are fun and exciting to play with: a fancy new filter, a complicated oscillator, granular processor, DSP, etc. Others are boring but are 100% necessary utilities, like I/Os, mults, VCAs, attenuverters, logic, offsets, S&H, clock tools, etc. I feel it's important to strike a balance between them. Utilities are super important but a rack full of nothing but them is boring and uninspiring. And likewise you might have a bunch of really cool oscillators and FX but without the nuts and bolts that hold everything together you can't do very much with it. So I try and maintain a balance of purchasing interesting and inspiring modules while also keeping up with the utility stuff at the same time.

I'd also suggest this starting out: make sure that at least some of your patch cables are stackable or pick up some splitters. This avoids the need for passive mults in your rack, saving you both space and money.

test

OK

Plaits is a different story... Mutable Instruments stopped, right? Who will repair if I buy second hand?

there are plenty iof people who can repair mutable modules - all but beads are completely open source, both hardware and software... a lot of the other clone manufacturers - After Later Audio etc I suspect will repair their modules if they need it - b-company on the otherhand will probably just bin it and give you a new one - not very environmentally friendly!

it might be an idea to share the url of your public rack - so we can see what you intend to buy... and what your budget is - both initial and ongoing - plus the case you intend to use...

After a lot of thought I think I've finally planned out all the modules I'll want for my first rack, but I won't be able to purchase them all at once. Does anyone have advice in regards to purchase order? It seems like it might be insignificant but I want to ask just in case.

Thank you for your feedback Jim. I appreciate you took the time to review and reply. I was replying to you last weeek but I think everything got lost because of an automatic logout from modular grid. I try again...
I agree with your b company. do not worry I already support small manufacturers a lot. Maths and Quad VCA... true. Plaits is a different story... Mutable Instruments stopped, right? Who will repair if I buy second hand?
All ins is because of the external synths that only have audio level. But when on the road I can indeed remove because I can connect Blackbox directly to Es-9 and move the befaco ins to a second rack for use in studio only.
ES-9 is my mixer for the outputs. But I will add a little mixer to generate complex signals.
Magneto indeed large, but I likecit a lot and keep it for now.
The 3.5 to 6.3 convertor attenuates to protect an external device. Indeed takes a lot of space. I need to find a cable with built in attenuator.
I keep Scales to generate scaled melodies from non scaled cv signals and from still to be developed own external devices.

one of the best for sure

@ElfretPriceless is a trusted seller, good communication and safe shipping... Recommended !

Hi!

This is a short video about the amazing Sealegs module by intellijel. People are wandering why its called Sealegs….. More videos on Sealegs will be online soon on my YouTube channel, enjoy!

I have sold this oscillator because I often found my self patching it together with Make Noise STO to get a more complex sound. So I sold it and STO as well to buy Cs-L. I have to say that I really miss AJH VCO. It is really fat and tight sounding. I'm unable to replicate that sound with Cs-L. I will definitely buy these VCO's in future.

I've got a question about the usefulness of external MIDI controllers or even more capable devices like the Ableton Push with Eurorack.

Right now my setup is 100% modular only. I don't have a keyboard of any sort, and I don't have a DAW or a computer rigged up to my system either. I specifically don't want a PC involved, I use those enough througout the day and one of the things that I like about modular is that it's an escape from a computer. However, one of my main interests in synths is the fat polyphonic sound from a lot of the classic 80's synths like the CS-80. Even though I plan on building a large rack I forsee that at some point I'm going to want to dive into a non-modular synth like a Deckard's Dream, Ise-Nin, etc. The problem is those require MIDI to control. I do not want to use a traditional piano keyboard and I do not want to use a PC, laptop, etc. I have found modules to generate MIDI from CV but that seemed both complex and limited at the same time--more like it was useful for interacting with a synth setup, but rather limiting as the only interface.
The other day I stumbled across the Ableton Push III via a Youtube video. I have zero experience with these sorts of machines but it seems like something like this might be very useful to me. It is a MIDI controller that could play MIDI capable synths like the Deckard's Dream--via its buttons and also as a sequencer. It also functions as a synth on its own, which is attractive since I can use it to augment my modular setup--for example right now my modular system is very weak in the drum department, something like this could handle a lot of my drums before I get a chance to buy all that in modular. And finally, I understand the version III has 4 CV outputs, so it can be used as a modulation source too. Using something like this as the main controller for the external non-modular synth(s), perhaps augmented with MIDI generating modules as I can afford them, seems like a good way to go.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, also any suggestions for other hardware to take a look at.

Another one from Djupviks Electronik, a broken delay and no-input mixer.
Very simple build, mostly surface mount already installed so you just need to put on jacks and stuff.
Sounds interesting, though I will admit I did not do the demo full justice, go to their site for a better demo
Would be a fine first kit.

Build

Hello everybody,

Almost one year later I must say that I fell completly in love with modular! Love the experimentation and the great sounds I can produce with it. I now have two cases one studio case and one batery powered field case (that I love to take with me into nature). Still making dark ambiant soundscapes with drones, feedback patching, fieldrecordings (that I loop, sample and proces within the modular). Lately I am in to experimenting with building chaotic self generative patches. I would realy apreciate comments, sugestion's and tips for my current setup, patching and future purchases.

Thanx in advance and keep patching!

Here is my current setup:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2423083.jpg

EDITED Dec 11th 2023, 19:15

usually people mock up their racks and paste the url when posting questions - it really helps and then list the extra stuff they have... this might be an idea for you?

I wouldn't want the microcosm as end of chain processing - I think things like that tend to work better when processing singke voices as opposed to many - although reverb is always good on full mixes...

sounds like you want a mixer... possibly an external one - I used a yamaha mg10 for quite a while - reasonably inexpensive

hmmmm.... I think you'd be much better off with a bigger case and something like a keystep pro... because you wiull need the expansion space almost immediately with this setup... I'd really suggest a great deal more research before parting with cash....

there are fundamental things missing...

your description of the intellijel adsr's compactness made me chuckle... as did the "you can never have too many lfos" when there's only 1 in there - the "you can never have too many.." meme is usually used for vcas...

speaking of which, there are no vcas to plug the envelope generator into... ok there's one on the tonestar, but that already has an adsr built in...

buchla is often linked with lpgs (not filters) which are also none existant... these are a cross between vcas and low pass filters...

whilst the tonestar is a voice - the tiptop/buchla module is a dual vco - you will see on the tonestar that the vco is a small part of the voice... they have no

reverb and delay are both incredibly useful...

take a look at my signature and think long & hard about how you might apply this to a rack that you might want...

seriously consider a minimum viable synth (at least to start):

a sound source (possibly rthe tiptop buchla one), a sound modifier (possibly 1 of the filters), a modulation source (you'll want more than 1 channel - a quad is a good idea, batumi - or possibly maths - particularly if you are into west coast serge/buchlaesque concepts), a way to listen (a quad cascading vca will work wonders as a basic mono output - a veils clone) and a way to play (maybe a keystep pro - or a pams - which could also double as a modulation source and a random pitch source) and a basic utility module for attenuation/inversion/offset (happy nerding 3 * mia)

another good idea is to work out what modules you want (based around how many voices you want) what modules each voice will need, what supporting modules they will need when combined and then work out how much rack space you need - leaving a good 25% of any rack you buy free for expansion - you will need it... instead of deciding on a case because it appears to be convenient...

if you want to fit the 4 voices that the nifty keys is designed for you, into it, you need to go much more compact with every module...

I am totally in love with Mnemonic's Juniper+Gin. It is probably the most powerful modulation (x8) combo..

so... I got started with a nifty case. Then I ran out of all but 6hp of space. My original plan was to gut the parts for the case and build a nice wood enclosure but then I did the power math and what I i wanted tp put in the new case was going to push me over so... I just picked up another nifty case.
I saw the big ears for dual cases but hated how it sat flat so... I decided to put my cnc router to use! This is just the prototype made out of MDF to check for height and clearance. i want to make sure I got hole alignment and angles right before I glued up some walnut boards to make the final case.

O really like it :). I need to perhaps make a few modifications. I'm thinking about perhaps throwing in a bit more space between cases for 1U but not sure yet. I also want to put some cool carving for the sides but I am excited for the final version!

...SO WHY ARE THE JACKS AT THE BOTTOM??? WHO MIXES AT THE TOP OF THEIR RACK LMAO??

I ask myself this question with most of the available modules on the marktet.
Most of them are configured "the wrong way around". :)

EDITED Dec 10th 2023, 22:20

I've got an Arturia Microfreak, a set of Euro Rack Modules and various ins and outs - and a Microcosm - I'm trying to make a performance rig - but hooking up this to be both mixed and also not a too high level output to the OB-4 - seems like I can't get it all to work - any thoughts on using an effects return? I want the microcosm to be final in the chain - but could be thinking about it wrong - the idea is to have something like the Arturia or a Guitar for input - and then into the Modular then out of the Modular - then to the OB-4.

Do I need to fix the output? Do I need to fix the input? Do I need to get a mixer or since I'm doing one chain not an issue?

![]

Hi everyone!

I'm in the process of crafting a modular setup using the Cre8audio Niftykeyz and would greatly appreciate your insights. My aim is to create a system that's user-friendly and seamlessly integrates with my DAW. Here's what I'm envisioning:

Primary Goal:

Merging the Buchla-style complex oscillator sounds with the iconic Roland Jupiter/SH5 timbres.
Emphasis on cross-modulation capabilities.
Multitimbral usage for diverse soundscapes.
Current Setup:

Case: Cre8audio Niftykeyz
Oscillator 1: Studio Electronics Tonestar 8106 (emulating Juno/Jupiter sounds)
Oscillator 2: Tiptop Audio 258t (Buchla-esque oscillator, great for cross-mod)
Envelope Generator: Intellijel Dual ADSR (chosen for its compactness and snappy response)
Filter: G-Storm Electro SH5-VCF (aiming for that rich, late '70s Roland vibe)
Additional Module: Studio Electronics SE88 (love the CS80 filter and FM options)
Modulation: Ladik LFO (because one can never have too many LFOs)
Mixer: Doepfer 138

I'm looking for your expertise to validate if this setup aligns well with my goals. Are there any glaring omissions or potential mismatches in this configuration? Your suggestions and advice would be invaluable!

ps
I posted this question on modwiggler as well but couldn't get any feedback

Two totally different spectrum modules. One lika a vocoder with own tuning, the other a resynthesizer, maintaining pitch.

Wow, thank you so much @Chace and @JimHowell1970. This really does help me. At first, I'm going to analyze what @JimHowell1970 tells me. I think it's true that Shapeshifter has a lot of complexity, although wavetable synthesis is something I want to study in detail. But Plaits is a good starting point too, and highly versatile. The important thing for me is going to be maintaining the balance between a versatile system and the initial investment in modules. I will tell you about my progress and doubts.
Thanks again.

Now we have a black panel for the ResEQ as preferred by some. The ResEQ has been around for quite a while. What I had hoped for is an expander module with CV over all the frequency bands. Add gate sequences and have fun! Much more exciting to me than any visuals ;-) I heard rumors that there is a 4u version of ResEQ with CV control. Anyone?
-- wiggler55550

The 3U-Version of the VC ResEQ is available:
https://serge-modular.com/serge_4x4?mod=RS_SIEGFRIED8X4

A 3U Version will follow someday.

Hello @melero,
Here is an example of a rack that sort of hybridizes what @JimHowell1970 suggested and what you originally presented, as I'm guessing those were modules that are appealing to you.
I did swap out some modules that I thought might be better options, in my opinion: MIDI Thing -> Mutant Brain, Quadra and expander -> Quadrax and expander (Quadra is out of production), Magneto -> Sealegs (again, just an opinion, but I think Sealegs will be more interesting and friendly, especially when starting out). I also added a Mix 3 (to mix Shapshifter's waveforms before going into the filter), and an Out V3 (not everyone thinks an "output" module is necessary, but I do like them personally, and the headphone out and cue option is nice too). I think this build will give you an interesting and fun synth voice to really delve deep into for a long time.

You could, of course, strip things back more at first to make the setup simpler and/or less expensive. For example, take out the Quadrax and expander, take out the Mutant Brain if MIDI connectivity isn't an absolute must have, swap out Shapeshifter, Evolution, and Sealegs for less expensive/simpler options, like the excellent ones Jim suggested in his post.

I hope some of that is helpful!

the besst thing to do in many ways is to start with very little - ie a minimum viable synth... a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, a way to play and a way to listen... plus maybe a basic utility...

so:

sound source - literally any will do - plaits clones are popular - as they have a lot of variety

modulation source - pams or maths are both great - although both complex (in different ways) - 1 is programmable with a simple menu system - the other is programmable with patch cables (this is a very powerful method and will transfer to all patching - see the 'maths illustrated supplement for further details - but really requires a lot of deep thought about what, when and how to get the most out of it)

a sound modifier - a low pass filter is a good start - doepfer make some inexpensive classics - moog, wasp, sem etc... and a multifx is another useful choice if you want to push the boat out a bit further - I'd go fx aid pro (screen exponentially improves the user experience)

a way to play - if the modulation source is Pams - then that can be a good start - it can do quantized stepped random pitch - otherwise it really depends on you...

a way to listen - a quad cascading vca such as a veils clone is a great starting point, although probably mono - which isn't really that big a deal - it will do the job and always be useful!

an utility - a module that can do attenuation/inversion/offset/mixing is also a good investment - possibly the best is the happy nerding 3 * mia - but there are others...

learn these modules inside and out and once you have done that (probably weeks, if not months) start adding slowly, 1 or 2 modules at a time, and repeating... try to keep a note of what you are missing as you go...

hope this helps...

I've spent some time studying how does it works a modular system based on sustractive synthesis. Understand the basics components through VCV rack has been a part of my time too.

So, in my unexperience perspective, the main problem is to choose the right modules to create a eurorack system oriented to the music the I want to get.
Because there're a lot of offer, brands and modules doing several functions at the same time, I mean, not just working as a simple VCA o EG, for example.
Some of them, gather a bunch of fuctions that I don't know if these fits well, probably not. And that's my problem.

Using the Mantis case to house the modules, and with a more or less clear idea about the sound I want to achieve. What would be your suggestions keeping this in mind: sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities?

Thanks a lot!

EDITED Dec 9th 2023, 18:51

Ok kids, this setup is now reality. Just waiting on a four tier thingamabob. The erica stuff is mostly for supplementing what the moog stuff lacks. Extra VCO’s, VCA’s, LFO’s, atenuverters etc… and so far it’s a friggin’ gas. Killer semi mod system. (KSMS)

This comes from a YouTube video here:

THE CASE IS 96HP.

EDITED Dec 9th 2023, 09:57

Thanks for your kind words, TumeniKnobs. I'm afraid I'm a sucker for hippie nostalgia! GLad you liked the timbre. String modelling was actually my only choice, because it was the only way I could get two separate voices that would sound identical. I clearly need more oscillators!!

I think that you should spend more time planning and thinking, please don't buy stuffs yet , you would be disappointed. you have one voice and 3 expensive filters, that' like setting money on fire.
hexmix is also no right for such a small system.
what about you buy a cheap osc, a cheap filter, a cheap vca, as many utilities as possible and you learn from there ?
shapeshifter is nice but is definitely a complex module. chose one (or better two) cheap osc ?
remove two filters.
what's the plan for sequencing ?

do you know synthesis ? did you consider a semi modular ?
something like a beastep and a behringer crave, k2, or neutron ? that would help you building some basics.
a arturia minibrute 2s would also be a smart starting setup me thinks...

ask for more advices, read, test stuffs, and try not to spend too much money for now!

EDITED Dec 8th 2023, 19:15

2U sounds weird. 6 U maybe ?

Thanks in any case. You helped me figure out where I wanted to go with this rack!

Foley sounds! Yes, that's awesome. Thanks.

Thanks! It's a bunch of foley sounds and samples I collected over the years played by the Squarp Rample (sequenced with ORCA). And I think I gave it a bit saturation with the Djupviks Shakti.

This website is about music and the devices that make it. This interest is the common ground that connects us.
Let's not fool ourselves, it's also about escapism, it's also about being able to escape from everyday life.
Terrible things happen in this world. I don't want them on my website. And that's why we have a no-politics policy.
And that's why I deleted a post that passively attacked a user who just wanted to show his music.